posted
Great Idea.........My guess is Igenex would show some positive....
Posts: 355 | From NY | Registered: Jan 2006
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Areneli
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posted
It was done. I don't know if it was published but it was presented on some Lyme conference. Cannot recall which one.
As far as I remember it was concluded that some selected bands are more probable in healthy people than others but almost any of them can be found in physically healthy population.
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
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If anyone has access to the full text, I'm interested.
It seems to indicate that 41kDa didn't appear in any of the healthy controls! I thought 41 was the band most likely to show up in people...? Or is it just that 41 is the strongest band if you have Lyme?
Aim of this study was evaluation of Western blot banding patterns in different clinical forms of early Lyme borreliosis diagnosed in patients from north-eastern Poland, recognized as endemic for tick-borne diseases. Study was performed on serum samples of 48 patients with Lyme borreliosis and 26 healthy volunteers, as controls. Samples tested routinely for total antibody with enzyme immunoassay were subsequently analysed for specific antibodies with Western blot based on antigen extract of European strain of Borrelia burgdorferi. In patients, IgM antibodies were the most frequently directed against 41 kDa and 58 kDa antigens, whereas in control group only antibodies against 45 kDa and 58 kDa were present. Similar response was observed in respect to IgG antibodies. Evaluation of banding pattern in respect to clinical form of the disease revealed the highest prevalence of IgM and IgG anti-41 kDa antibodies in patients with erythema migrans and Lyme arthritis, and anti-58 kDa in neuroborreliosis patients, who had no anti-21 kDa antibodies. Relatively high frequency of IgG antibodies against 21, 30 and 93 kDa antigens was typical for neuroborreliosis. Bands count was significantly higher in different clinical forms of the disease than in controls, and it was the highest in neuroborreliosis. Combined analysis of Western blot results (IgM/IgG) enabled to achieve higher sensitivity (84%) and specificity (100%) than available with the most recommended EIA kits.
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TerryK
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Here is the original study but I haven't looked at it carefully so I don't know how it correlates with what is said above. Also, the original study was done so long ago that perhaps something about the testing was learned that negated the results? I simply don't know. http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=423723&blobtype=pdf Terry
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timaca
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posted
I don't have the reference on hand, but band 41 is NOT specific to lyme disease. It shows exposure to a spirochete, but many people have that as some bacteria that reside in the mouth are spirochetal (I've heard). I've read that about half of "normal" people will test positive on band 41.
Timaca
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RoadRunner
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posted
hope this helps
22-kDa OspC [specific for Bb] 22-25kDa OspC 23-kDa OspC *24-kDa OspC 25-kDa OspC [specific for Bb] 26-kDa 25-kDa 27-kDa Osp, Hsp (Europe burgdorferi strain B29, but not American strain B31) *28-kDa OspD, Oms28 [specific for Bb] 29-kDa 30-32-kDa OspA *30-kDa OspA substrate binding protein 31-kDa OspA [specific for Bb] 32-kDa OspA 33-kDa outer membrane 34-kDa OspB [specific for Bb] 34-36-kDa OspB 35-kDa OspB [specific for Bb] 35.5-kDa 36-37-kDa 37-kDa P37, flaA gene product, [specific for Bb] 38.0-kDa *39-kDa BmpA [specific for Bb] 40-kDa *41-kDa Fla 42-kDa 43-kDa 44-kDa *45-kDa [appeared in IgM in control group in 1998 study done in Poland] MEDLINE - 9972057 - "...whereas in control group only antibodies against 45 kDa and 58 kDa were present." [appears for HGE] MEDLINE - 9620365 - "...confirmed the importance of the 42- to 45-kDa antigens as early, persistent, and specific markers of HGE infection." 46-kDa 47-kDa P47 fibronectin-binding protein [specific for Bb] 48-kDa 49-kDa 50-kDa [specific for Bb] 51 kDa MgtE 52-kDa Fn-BA 54-kDa [other Borrelia] 55-kDa 56-kDa 57-kDa PBP *58-kDa (not GroEL) 59-kDa [a genetically engineeried fragment of the 83-kDa protein] 60-kDa Hsp [all Borrelia] 62-kDa Hsp60 63.7-kDa 64-kDa (P64) [cross-reacts to human axonal proteins] 65-kDa *66-kDa P66 Oms66 Hsp outer/integral membrane protein 67-kDa 68-kDa 70-kDa Hsp 71-kDa 72-kDa Hsp [cross-reactive with other spirochetes] [cross-reactive with other spirochetes/bacteria] Characterization of antigenic determinants of Bb shared by other bacteria. 73-kDa 75-kDa 77-kDa a genetically engineered recombinant hybred Use of a hybrid protein consisting of the variable region of the Borrelia burgdorferi flagellin and part of the 83-kDa protein as antigen for serodiagnosis of Lyme disease. 78-kDa OspA 79.8-kDa 80-kDa 83-kDa p83 high molecular mass protein [specific for Bb] 84-kDa [B. garinii] 88-kDa 92-kDa *93-kDa an immunodominant protoplasmic cylinder antigen, associated with the flagellum [specific for Bb] 94-kDa PBP [specific for Bb] 95-kDa 97-kDa associated with flagella 100-kDa P100 110-kDa 200-kDa a fusion protein, a hybrid protein ----- Named bands - the gene names: BmpA, BmpB, BmpC "the 39 kDa Bmp protein family", PMID: 8978084 BmpD, PMID: 8606088 FlaA osp of the periplasmic flagella, 37-kDa, PMID: 9986810; 38-kDa, PMID: 9573194, PMID: 8990312 FlaB 41-kDa PMID: 9573194 FlgE protein 40-kDa?, PMID: 8548542 ospAB 28-34-kDa, PMID: 9596714 OspA 31-kDa, PMID: 10030131 OspB 34-kDa, PMID: 10030131 OspC 21-25-kDa, 22-25-kDa - PMID: 8825913, OspD 28-kDa, PMID: 8825913 OspE 19.2-kDa [calculated], PMID: 8262642 OspF 26.1-kDa [calculated], PMID: 8262642 ---- Bands specific for Borrelia burgdorferi: 14-kDa ? 21-kDa 22-kDa OspC 25-kDa OspC 28-kDa OspD 31-kDa OspA 34-kDa OspB 35-kDa 37-kDa 39-kDa 47-kDa 50-kDa 83-kDa 93-kDa 94-kDa
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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AliG
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posted
Thanks Road Runner!
That's some impressive collection of information. I thought 23 KDa was Bb specific? Has that changed recently or was I mistaken?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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TerryK
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posted
quote: Anyone know if any of the famous bands (esp 41kDa, 30/31kDa, etc) have a habit of showing up in perfectly well subjects?
I've been told by someone that I consider to be a very reliable source that there are those who have lyme and yet are asymptomatic. This would make testing of controls less accurate since some percentage of controls are likely to have lyme. I have no idea how many but it is interesting to think about. Terry
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RoadRunner
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posted
here is more in some cases 22 and 23/25 are the same
According to "Everything You Need To Know About Lyme Disease"
9kD = cross-reactive for Borrelia 12kD = specific for Bb 18kD = unknown 20kD = cross-reactive for Borrelia 21kD = unknown 22kD = specific for Bb, probably really the 23/25 band 23/25kD = outer surface protein C (OspC), specific for Bb
28kD = Unknown
30kD = unknown, probably an outer surface protein; common in European and one California strain.
31kD = outer surface protein A (OspA) specific for Bb
34kD = outer surface protein B (OspB) specific for Bb 35kD = specific for Bb
37kD = specific for Bb 38kD = cross-reactive for Bb
39kD = major protein of Bb flagellin; specific for Bb
41kD = flagellin protein of all spirochetes; this is usually the first to appear after Bb infection and is specific for all Borrelia
45kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia 50kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia 55kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia 57kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia
58kD = unknown, but may be a heat-shock Bb protein 60kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia
66kD = cross-reactive for all Borrelia, common in all bacteria 83kD = specific antigen for Lyme bacterium, probably a cytoplasmic membrane
93kD = unknown, probably same protein as 83, just measured incorrectly
"To qualify for recent infection, a patient needs two of the three following Bb IgM bands: 23/25kD, 39kD, 41kD. To qualify for longer standing infection, a patient needs five of the ten following Bb IgG bands: 18kD, 21kD, 28kD, 30kD, 39kD, 41kD, 45kD, 58kD, 66kD, 93kD."
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I found a little tidbit about band 30 (30kd):
A company that sells Borellia burgdorferi antigens made from mice says they test at 30kd.
****** ABCAM product datasheet for ab2027
product name: Primary antibodies
description: Mouse monoclonal [Bss42] to Borellia burgdorferi sensu stricto
immunogen: Bacterial lysates of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto
Tested applications: Elisa, immunofluorescence, Western blot. Detects a band of approximately 30 kd.
*******
It is a IgG2a isotype, perhaps this is why LabCorp only tests IgG for band 30? (my Igenex IgM was positive for it)
From what I can find, tuberculosis may have a 30 kd protein. Couldn't find much else that could cross-react.
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Jellybelly
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posted
So according to Steere, even though my test results were IND and Neg, I still have Lyme because I have the symptoms and was 18+. Is that not correct? Bands 18, 28, and 93, even if ONE of these bands shows up, then the source of the illness is Lyme according to Steere.
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TerryK
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quote: hubby had cdc positive IGg but never been symptomatic...(I made him take the test)
I hope he is in treatment since according to what I've read and what I've been told, he *could* be re-infecting you.
quote: So according to Steere, even though my test results were IND and Neg, I still have Lyme because I have the symptoms and was 18+. Is that not correct? Bands 18, 28, and 93, even if ONE of these bands shows up, then the source of the illness is Lyme according to Steere.
Jellybelly, no, I'm sure Steere did not say that and has no intention of saying it.
The first link is testimony from Kathleen Dickson, (a chemist who has lyme disease) regarding the validity of the serological methods that were used in the lymerix vaccine trial.
She states that Dressler/Steere report that bands 18, 28 and 93, (generated from Bb strain G39/40) are the most specific for lyme because they never show up in controls. She referred to an old study for which I included the link. I believe Kathleen Dickson is the one who states that because these bands do not show up in controls, the presence of symptoms and one of these bands would indiciate that lyme is the source of the illness. I'm not saying she's wrong, but that's a lot different than Steere saying it.
I've read that 18 is specific for lyme and at least one LLMD wrote that in his own data of 700 patients, if one of the specific bands was postive (and he included 18), then 97% of the 700 patients feel better with abx. I don't think that's a guarantee that you have lyme but I think it's pretty certain that you have some infection that is impacted by antibacterials.
Dr. B. also mentions band 18 as species specific and that one should see at least a specific band and 41.
Terry I'm not a doctor, this is just my opinion.
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