posted
I posted this under general support but maybe it should go here???
Wow! I just got my bill for a phone consult with my lyme doctor. It was $75.00 for 13 minutes.
Now bear in mind that I have had lyme disease for over 40 years without finding out what was really wrong with me until four months ago.
I have not been able to work for very much of my life and when I did the pay was terrible.
I have raised my son since he was four years old by myself because my husband left me. I don't blame him I would have left at times too if I could have.
I realize the doctors have to be paid but how do they expect someone in my postion to be able to do it?
I have had one visit with him which cost $480.00 and now this phone consult for 75.00.
At this rate I won't be able to continue to keep seeing him!
I am open to any suggestions..I'm sorry to sound like I am whining. I just don't see any answers and I am sure there are many others out there with the same problem.
posted
consider yourself lucky. My LLNP (and she's not even an MD) charges $250 for office AND phone visits. It used to be $150 for phone and $250 for office, but now it's $250 for either.
The main LLMD in the office costs more than that.
OUCH!
Posts: 449 | From Pasadena, CA, usa | Registered: Aug 2005
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geniveve
Unregistered
posted
oh, honey, let me tell you about the doctor that charged over 5 grand for 5 five visits!!! he charged 900 just for consultation and then to top it off charged 150 for office visits.
one bad apple can spoil the barrel for a lot of people........
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Thats a deal!
Weather its 15 minuets on the phone or 15 minuets in person that still about average or even in my experience below average for any doctor's time fee. Specially a specialist.
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Sounds fair to me. I answered more on other thread. Take care, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
our LLMD group charged the same for a phone 15 minute phone consult as they did for a 30 min. office visit, which was $200.00; they also warned you that if you went over the 15 minutes on the phone, you would pay dearly.
They also wanted us to either show up or phone in every month.
I do not work and do not have insurance; I also had get treatment for my daughter: luckily she had insurance ... oh wait, they did not take her insurance.
My local GP has agreed to treat us for a while, for now, and he charges $80.00 per visit, which lasts 15 minutes. He has us coming in every 2 months. He takes my daughter's insurance.
I have always thought this was just as scary as having Lyme: trying to pay for a LLMD visit and not go broke in the process.
ESG
Posts: 424 | From Connecticut, USA | Registered: Nov 2003
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
I dont think I would listen to us complaining and Mone for $75--
Hey -Im just Kidding --LOL
But being a Good doctor has to be a Tuff job --
The stress levels of a Caring Doctor have to be Ruff --
I figure its like being a parient and taking care of 100s of Big non stop kid problems --Ouch-- --Jay--
[ 15. January 2007, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: groovy2 ]
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749
posted
Believe it or not, that is a below average charge.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
My father is a physician (surgeon) and even he is outraged with the prices that LLMDs charge. If you are already a patient, many other doctors consider most phone consults (if you aren't calling every other day) to be part of follow up care and don't charge for them.
As time goes by I'm becoming less and less convinced of the altruism of some LLMDs. They could lower their prices significantly and still more than make up for it in volume, especially when they 1) Know many of their patients can't work and 2) refuse to take most insurances
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
If insurance companies were not stiffing patients, more doctors were treating this, and the govt wasn't punishing doctors who treat lyme and other tickborne diseases, we would not be having this problem.
I'm pretty tired of this subject. People who have no money and insurance which won't pay or no insurance at all are out of luck in the U.S. of A. This is a for profit society. Ask yourself what other professionals in any line of work are in it for pure altruistic reasons. No medical people can treat complicated diseases at charity prices or for free. If you called a plumber to fix pipes, he would not change the price because you are in a bad financial situation. In fact, I don't know of anyone in the service sector who would do this, so why expect it from doctors?
Yes, I am feeling the pinch myself, but I wish people who feel they have to gripe in public could restrain themselves and find a way to make positive changes in the situation, not just handwringing and complaints. Sorry, sick, not unsympathetic to your plight....you seem to have more problems than any one person should have to confront. Sounds to me like any additional trouble at this point is just too much for you to handle. Hope you find a way to diminish one or more of these problems before long. This much stress has got to be a factor in your illness.
No, don't think that charge is out of line. In future, maybe post on one forum, not the same thread on multiple forums. And since you are still new here, one way to learn a lot fast is to go back over previous posts, just click on those little number pages. Almost everything has been discussed at length in the past and these older threads can be a source of good info.
I have been to doctors who charged a lot more than this, were abusive, and did not help me at all and didn't care, had absolutely no interest in finding the source of the problem. This is what a lot of us have found outside of the lyme doc group.
[ 13. January 2007, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: lou ]
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
But Lou, consider countrys that have free medical care like Canada or in europe. Would you trade the limited care you receive here for the price for the free care there? Seems to me that free poor care isn't worth the price.
Posts: 219 | From Aubur,Al. USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Well, troup, poor care in a national health system vs poor care in a for profit medical system aint a very good choice, in my opinion. Would I rather have a punch in the face or a kick in stomach sort of choice.
Was hoping for better from both systems.
The person who started this thread is complaining that $75 is too much for 13 minutes. If you go to the average internist for anything, you will see them for a very short period of time, probably less than 13 minutes, for which they will charge over a hundred bucks. Most insured people are not griping about these charges because all they have is a ten or fifteen dollar copay. Insurance picks up the rest. I really see no difference here except the patients are having to pay the whole amount because the ins cos are breaching their contracts in not covering lyme.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
The big misunderstanding seems to be that people believe the LLMDs are refusing to take insurance. In most cases, the insurance companies refuse to allow the LLMDs to be part of the network because they use too many alternative therapies or "overdiagnose" Lyme.
If you go to any doctor that specializes in herbal medicine, naturopathic medicine, integrative medicine, etc., most insurance companies do not allow those doctors in their networks.
I know BettyG is working on updating the LLMD list with price info. I believe it will have insurance information as well, so we will have an idea if there are states with less LLMDs taking insurance.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I can't speak for all LLMDs, but only for the one that I see, and my homeopathic/acupuncture M.D. Ironically, my homeopathic/acupuncture MD actually takes insurance. In fact, my insurance plan will pay in full for 50+ visits a year for acupuncture and chiropractic type medicine. Homeopathy is billed as an extensive office consult which is also covered by most insurances since my doc is an actual M.D.
My LLMD on the other hand not only doesn't accept insurance, but actually opted out of medicare as an "out of network", which means that people who used to pay that office completely out of pocket before and then get reimbursed, no longer can send away for reimbursement. There is no real excuse for this, considering we all still pay up front. The office doesn't lose anything, but the patients suffer. The insurance companies didn't have any problem with this office.
All doctors, LLMDs or not, feel the crunch from insurance companies. They give them pitifully small amounts of what they actually bill. However, most other doctors take insurance, or at least allow themselves to be an "out of network" provider. On top of that LLMDs often have 1) large practices and 2) never have to perform emergency procedure/take call for people who have no insurance.
There ARE ways that LLMDs could make it so that patients could easily get reimbursed, even if they didn't want to take insurance directly. Next time you go to the doctor you need to look at the CPT and ICD9 codes that they use for billing. Lyme docs and other specialists now use rather arcane diagnosis and procedure codes that no insurance company will pay for. They could augment these and bill them as something else, such as an extended office visit like my one doc does.
I know many other physicians in non-lyme related fields and as much as they hate the insurance industry, they try to help their patients out as much as possible. Sometimes it seems like some (not all) LLMDs, who many champion as the underdog standing up against the evil IDSA and insurance companies, don't do as much to ease the financial burdens of their patients as they could. They are in a very unique situation as they can pretty much deny care to anyone who can't pay without penalty. Very few other specialists (plastic surgeons?) can say that. With that kind of freedom, comes responsibility.
Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I consider myself lucky - I go to 1 of the only 2 LLMDs in WI. My first meeting was about 300.00 3 hours. From there after office visit 96.00, anywhere from 30 min to 1 hour. Phone consults 75.00
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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posted
It is the insurance industry I believe that is driving the cost of healthcare up for everyone.
In turn all physicians fees go up because the fee schedules seem to become the norm across the board...
This is an oversimplification I know, but I think there is some truth to it.
-------------------- �Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right.� - Ezre Taft Benson Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
The point that insurance companies may not accept some doctors into their networks is a good one.
Additionally, a doctor recently explained to me that accepting insurance (including Medicare) puts them under the microscope and raises the risk of scrutiny for trivial charges being brought against them.
Remember that doctors who treat Lyme, especially in states without legislative protection (which, at this point, is most of them), do so at tremendous professional peril, all the way up to losing their medical license and ability to make a living.
IMO, they deserve to be compensated for that.
I realize that these explanations do not help patients who do not have insurance or who otherwise can not afford care.
In my opinion, though, your gripe should not be with the doctors but, rather, with the political and legal environment in which they are forced to practice.
Please get involved in Lyme advocacy and make a difference.
-------------------- Suzanne Shaps STAND UP FOR LYME Texas (www.standupforlyme.org) (Please email all correspondence related to protecting Texas LLMDs to [email protected] with copy to [email protected]) Posts: 977 | From Austin, TX, USA | Registered: May 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
My current LLMD takes insurance- he is $10 a visit- and he also takes MediCal. My old LLMD was $150 a visit and then he got popular. He began charging $300 BUT on the other side, I know he did lots of two-for-ones with families- or families-for-one- or freebies. I would have paid whatever necessary because he was the only doctor in all of half a state who would treat the way I needed!!!!!!!! And he said to me, and meant it, once, "I would lose my license for you guys." meaning us Lymies. He was a sweetie...
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Aniek:
I know BettyG is working on updating the LLMD list with price info. I believe it will have insurance information as well, so we will have an idea if there are states with less LLMDs taking insurance.
aniek/ALL, there is a misunderstanding here that i wish to correct now.
i was going to combine marian b's and alexis' LLMD lists together as one since we have been helping the newbie's and oldies in finding GOOD LLMDS. there was some OUTDATED info in it.
in it, i WOULD HAVE compiled $$ of dr. costs, etc. BUT
this was DROPPED BEFORE IT BEGAN as i was advised by tincup that this work has been done and there is ONE list already by melanie reber; you can read below for more info! .
please read this link for the rest of the story...
hope this clarifies things for those who didn't see the ENDING of the post i started about this since it got BURIED fast!
posted
I agree with this analysis, in too many cases. There is quite a spectrum of prices for Lyme docs and there's a certain amount of taboo in discussing the prices, partly because of the whole Lyme disease- official- maltreatment problem. (This has caused a certain amount of risk-related price increases, no doubt, especially, for example, in New York and many other states.) But the cost of even the more expensive docs pales next to the price of the drugs. I was spending just about as much as illicit drug-users I've known!
It's a VERY tragic situation, indeed.
Not only that but I heard that certain scum (sorry to use such a benign term for such filth...) has been making efforts to make it impossible for people to get prescription drugs from other countries at a fraction of the price at which they are available here. If I hadn't done that I would have had to stop treatment prematurely and would probably NOT BE HERE!
We need QUALITY medical care for EVERYBODY!
The reality with the medicare/medicaid care dichotomy and so many sick people unable to receive sufficient care places america solidly in a set of countries in which crimes against humanity are taking place.
But then, please don't let your blood boil... that might compromise your immune system. My blood boiling is not pleasant, but my health is nearly restored. This due to my being fortunate enough to manage to get proper treatment , with a doctor who really knows Lyme. If it wasn't for Lymenet Finger Lakes Lyme, and a good LLMD, this probably wouldn't have happened. Thus let my blood boil for you....
Always keep in mind the importance of finding and treating co-infections. Also, note that at a certain point, after I was out of the acute stage, I started telling myself, "the more you do, the better you get". That was the "mantra" that got me out of that long chronic stage. But I fought on every level, all the way down to the spiritual. To energise the life. To Focus the mind. Then to charge into the optimal action, whether it be wrangling free drugs, finding a doc I could afford whose mind hadn't been usurped by the corporate dictatorship, or searching for possible alternative treatments. Its a long ordeal, but please keep fighting! I wish total wellness for you soon! DaveS
Best Wishes (to beat Lyme and the 'medical system' (i.e., the lack of one) in this country
quote:Originally posted by Blackstone: My father is a physician (surgeon) and even he is outraged with the prices that LLMDs charge. If you are already a patient, many other doctors consider most phone consults (if you aren't calling every other day) to be part of follow up care and don't charge for them.
As time goes by I'm becoming less and less convinced of the altruism of some LLMDs. They could lower their prices significantly and still more than make up for it in volume, especially when they 1) Know many of their patients can't work and 2) refuse to take most insurances
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I have a couple arguments besides the untold misery of not being able to afford testing and treatment:
What about the safety issue of allowing this plague to spread as people cannot afford to get tested and treated? What happens to the nation's blood supply, since apparently spirochetes are showing up in blood and can be seen with a darkfield microscope? What happens to anyone else who shares bodily fluids in any way with infected people?
What happens to a nation's economy as its people can no longer work and pay taxes, and are having to receive benefits?
As Lyme/co's are a dangerous, economic-threatening, life-threatening public health plague putting the future of all humans and animals in our country in jeopardy, and yes, I think the world as well, I believe some kind of public health clinic system needs to be set up to treat people who need free/low cost treatment.
The DPH publicly advertises testing and treatment for other infectious diseases like West Nile, syphilis, AIDS, other STDs and TB. Come on...
We do know some basics of what needs to be done for Lyme/co's diagnosis and treatment. Now what we need is the political vision and will to make this care available.
I mean, if the Iraq war has cost 400 billion, certainly less is needed for Lyme/co's help!
I don't think we as a nation can afford to do less.
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Insurance companys do not work for you. They work for your employer. Your employer chooses which co. they want to administer claims and pays them in one of several ways. You assist the company by paying a co-pay. If your claim is denied and you feel it is incorrect, go to your employer and give them the information. Ask them to fight for you. They have the power to effect the outcome.
It is in the best interest of almost any company to cover all diseases that can be cured by abx, lyme being one of them. Companys that have an employee population with a high exposure rate, like in the NE would be crazy not to insist on lyme coverage. Risk managers are paid to make these decisions.
It is much more cost effective to cure one employee than to pay the cost of both the sick employee and the replacement.
Posts: 219 | From Aubur,Al. USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I am grateful everyday that there ARE LLMD's to go to.
Imagine the days when it was only Sterre? Aren't you glad you don't have zero options?
Yes, I wish I could fast forward 25years when this disease will be as well known as AIDS and all the drug companies will be peddling their advanced Bb cures.
All the docs will treat aggressively and your neighbors will bring over casseroles. Your family will undersand well what you are suffering with.
But we live in 2007 and I believe we are on the brink of major changes with this disease...between the CT AG getting involved, more celebritiy types going public, and the sheer number of people getting infected...
Our llmds are brave pioneers and if we were more healthy and organized as a group, we would be raising money to open clinics that help the neediest among us.
Dr J in CT may charge a lot, but he swims in legal bills and risks loosing his livelyhood with every child he treats.
LLMD's could easily find other work doing cosmetic procedures and make far more money with happier patients--but they don't. They risk their licences and their medical reputations looking like "quacks" to their collegues.
Just my two cents, I mean look what someone like amy tan did..starting a grant foundation with her own money to support needy kids with lyme.
Let's try to be part of the solution....
-------------------- We are spiritual beings on a human journey...
I have a blood type which only 2 or 3% of people have. I was on the rare blood donor list until I found out I have lyme disease. Now i can't donate. Think of the people this is affecting . sick
Posts: 538 | From Iowa | Registered: Apr 2006
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just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
Dear 'sick' one,
All the lovely beautiful people such as yourself and thousands 'Just Like' you are my inspiration and hope.
Every once in a blue moon I will buy a big jackpot "Powerball" ticket thinking only IF I would be granted a winning ticket:
A. I would live just as meagerly as I could!!
B. use every penny I could muster to assist those of you without insurance and means of getting well on your own!!
C. And revel in every day we can BEAT the ticks and the ducks!!
D. $75 dollar, unable to pay, medical bills then would be ancient history!!!
E. And thank God every day for the opportunity to do so!!!
F. Amen!!!
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
dorothy,
email iowa senators:
tom harkin and chuck grassley plus whoever your HOUSE OF REP is for your area of iowa.
their email addresses can be found in ACTIVISM; post by tincup CONTACT 50 STATE INFO or something like that.
go to the BOTTOM OF PAGE 1; there is the info on IOWA I COMPILED; senators/house of rep is at the beginning of my post.
as time permits, i'll go in there and get our NEW 07 IOWA legislature brought up to date on new names!
tell them in there about your RARE BLOOD TYPE and now you can NOT DONATE BLOOD, ORGAN, TISSUE, or your eyes upon your death!
tell them about YOUR situation w/out insurance, etc.
they work for US.
harkin/grassley both have REPS IN DES MOINES REPRESENTING THEM, if you want their emails, send me a PM, and i'll send them to you.
harkin's previous aid is now in dc working directly for him, but zeek seemed really good when i dealt with him prior to my SSDI claim filing being APPROVED.
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posted
Sick -- I'm glad you found out what you have, as it definitely is not a good idea to donate blood.
Awhile back, we had a thread here about someone who knew he has Lyme and wrote to his local bloodbank offering to donate, and they DIDN'T turn him down.
I'm with Betty on this one -- I think the issue -- and anything you want to say about Lyme -- is important enough to be communicated to your reps.
I would like to see some national action on blood donation safety improvement, like could blood banks do better blood screening -- with the darkfield microscope, etc??
Don -- lol on the lottery idea funding us. Wouldn't it be a kick if one of us won the lottery and could set up a foundation to fund care? Now that would make the news.
Makes me wanna go out and get a ticket. Oh well, here goes 20 cents for state education...
Posts: 13117 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
don, i too was very touched by your comments that if you WON lottery; you'd give the bulk to those needy lyme patients needing care/meds, etc.
wow, you lived up to my nickname for you again: deep-hearted don or deep=pockets don!
don, you didn't make it over the board to indianola, iowa did you? someone stopped and bought a $19 million hot pockets lottery ticket there over the weekend!
any of other IOWA lymie win this? sure would be WONDERFUL if they did!
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