Topic: new forum needed on articles/pub med so questions can be answered HERE :)
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
I just found the below at bottom of page 2; a newbie's first post needing help, which all overlooked.
Let's have a NICE, PLEASANT, OPEN-MINDED CHAT about my suggestion as I'm seeing this every night when i come on here; newbies are on pages 2-3 with NO replies. that's not right .
sorry your post was on the bottom of screen 2 when i found it now with NO REPLIES!
certain people add all these articles/pub med, etc. and the MEDICAL QUESTIONS newbies like you are asking are bumped to screens 2-3 before i happen to come across you and raise you to the top for answers !
i do think it's time we added another forum for: ARTICLES/PUB MED.
it's critical we help folks answer medical questions when they first come here; this isn't happening due to all articles many folks are now posting.
i'll start a new thread on this issue! and PLEASE SHOW RESPECT after all the fighting that has been on the board lately. thank you!
i do know hep C is a co-infection of lyme; don't know about hep B.
check any of melanie reber's posts she originatees; click on LYME MEMORIAL SITE;
look for CO-INFECTIONS; she's got a huge list somewhere; that might help you a little!
IP: Logged |
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Great Suggestion Betty!
But who is in charge of doing that?
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
luvs,
jenifer would be able to set this up upon OUR request to do so.
IP: Logged |
Ann-OH
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2020
By the way, I am very much against any new boards.
Don't break things that work fine!
Posts: 1538 | From Planet Earth | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
ann, yes, i will pursue this.
2nd thread got to be all about alternative therapy, and NOT much mentioned about medical/pub med articles i discussed; but those that did were IN FAVOR for a separate forum.
IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I support a separate section for the articles/PubMed/scientific studies, but don't support a separate forum for 'alternative therapy'. In my mind the articles will benefit from having their own forum where they won't roll over to the next page of Medical Questions an hour later.
I think some of us got upset about the alternative treatments proposal mainly because the separation of the two assumes that someone gets to decide what's alternative and what's mainstream. I doubt it's all that bad to move the articles to a separate area so that folks with medical questions, some of whom have trouble with the computer or with following too much information at once, can make the best use of the discussion on treatments.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Ok, I'll put my answer over here also. We're all concerned with space on Medical, yet a duplicate post was posted?
Yes, this discussion HAS gone round and round.
I'm of the camp, if it's not broke don't fix it or KSS (keep it simple stupid)....now where have I heard that??
I just don't see Medical clogged with articles...if anything it's more questions that need answering. Who would go to a forum that only listed PubMed articles, or medical abstracts? I'm not sure I would, and I do read a lot of them, not necessarily here.
If it were subject to the search engine, I could see it as beneficial....but others might not go there and discuss the subject matter. Therefore, it may be a place to post opinion abstracts only.
Are newbies being lost in the shuffle with the forums as they are? I don't think so....there are exceptions that could be pointed to...but not many.
It's worked nicely for a long time, and even if it could be done (not sure if it could with the server) I wouldn't mess with something this good.
All in all, this is the ultimate source of information for those afflicted, new or old.
I would like to see easy immediate answers for newbies....listed as newbie information. Maybe even a forum for this. Tree's list is wonderful and complete, but very detailed and so much to wade through.
Perhaps the MOST asked newbie questions laid out in an accesible format for all who visit Lymenet to see....a sticky maybe...and updated regulary. Limited to the top 25 or 50 questions with answers.
pubmed/articles, which have some REALLY IMPORTANT stuff in them, have swamped the medical QUESTION area.
if you don't see this, i'm sorry; but it has. i wish you could have read the pms i've received stating this too.
regular/alternative need to be kept in ONE forum . i know i commented otherwide earlier. i was caught off guard for cave's starting her OWN thread where this all could have been on one thread.
also, i'm going to address on the board.
KISS should be changed to:
KEEP IT SIMPLE SWEETIE! A POSITIVE VS. NEGATIVE !!
IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
up for day shift.
repeating, i'm promoting only ONE NEW FORUM be added for:
medical abstracts/pub med/articles being posted a lot lately.
i sent jenifer a request for one; let's find out IF it is possible to still ADD ONE
so don't get your feathers ruffled with cave's suggestion of 2 to separate alternative from regular treatments.
IP: Logged |
I would LOVE to see a way to search articles on this site!
The separate forum would make that easy!
Having a "newbie frequently asked questions" list in an easy to use format would help also!
Just my experience, but early on in my quest for info on lyme disease I found this site but did not easily understand the WEALTH of information that was available here. I didn't know what I was missing! My loss, but I didn't come back for many months after reading many, many articles etc I found elsewhere. I now had more knowledge and was comfortable in asking questions. However, I was assumed to be a troll by some because I was knowledgeable! LOL
Yes, some things on this site are fact. (Even if everyone in the medical field doesn't think so!) Some things on this site are opinion, our experiences and thoughts- (very valuable).
It would also be great to help to separate these!
Thanks, MommaK
Posts: 242 | From Mississippi | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
I haven't been here long enough to really voice an opinion about the fomat of the forum.
I can tell you from the perspective of a newbie that I was overwhelmed with the vastness of this site. I was so grateful to Bettyg who took me under her wing and sent me info pages for newbies & that she didn't think I was a troll! (I had gotten info about Lyme from a very good friend who's son had it. She told me what to ask.)
One suggestion that would have helped me is if there were a section where newbies could get started. Also, color-coding the "permanenet links" at the top of each forum. Somehow making them a different color or stand out visually from the regular links would help. I have Lyme vision problems and many times it's just hard to see what I need.
Another very helpful thing was learning how to use the search feature.
Thanks everyone for this forum and for your wonderful contributions. What would i do without you?
Kayda
Posts: 582 | From midwest | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kayda: Also, color-coding the "permanenet links" at the top of each forum. Somehow making them a different color or stand out visually from the regular links would help.
A very simple, but excellent, idea!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
kay, outstanding idea on different color for FEATURED posts; i just sent jenifer a pm with your idea!
if you/others have ideas like these, please send a pm to the moderators: jenifer or toby!
just go to 1 of forums; each shows names of moderators at top! click on their name bringing up the profile, go to top right, and send private message with your thoughts/ideas. thanks.
tutu, another good idea for ALL to check screens 2 and 3 for any posts with ZERO or 1 reply to them, but just doesn't appear to be happening.
EDITING: it's more than what i was guessing so i deleted that! my apologies to those i wasn't aware of and who did this years before i came on here!
momma, great ideas too; glad you like the search; we've got a good one now; we didn't before!
posted
Betty said: another good idea for ALL to check screens 2 and 3 for any posts with ZERO or 1 reply to them, but just doesn't happen. it's a 2 or 3 of us who take the time to do this. ************************ Betty, this simply is not true.
There are many on this board who will go back more than 3 pages and who regularly bring up posts to answer or for others to answer.
These people don't care if they receive the recogniton that they've done so, they bring them up and make sure there's an answer.
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
quote:Originally posted by bettyg:
certain people add all these articles/pub med, etc. !
Resident.. Current resident.. Postal box holder.. Current good driver... Head of household... Home Owner...
Yepper.. been called all that before. But that is cause they don't know me! HA!
BettyG...
I recently posted a bunch (6 or so?) of medical abstracts (in the MEDICAL section)... which, when I am busy researching late at night and come across articles I feel may be of interest to some folks, I quickly stick them on the board to see IF members care to take a peak.
And maybe SOME folks do care to see them because they get responses and I noticed folks had discussions about them...
Anyhow.. my guess is the "certain people" you refer to in your story... that you are objecting to so strongly... is me?
But maybe it is lou.. or Cave.. or CaliforniaLyme.. or meg... or nan... or one of several others who have been here for YEARS doing this very thing and helping folks to LEARN and to stay abreast of the latest information.
After all.. we need to remember.. we aren't ALL newbies here.. and we all have a right to use the board equally... and often recently published information is able to help ALL folks.. if they are new to the board or not.
But I AM guilty of posting new abstracts recently... so please feel free to say "Tincup" if you have a problem with something I am doing here. I'd be happy to address it and share my reasons or methods for my madness.
As for your comment..
"another good idea for ALL to check screens 2 and 3 for any posts with ZERO or 1 reply to them, but just doesn't happen. it's a 2 or 3 of us who take the time to do this."
I'll have to agree with meg on that.. and BIG time disagree with that statement.
Take Beverly for example. Night after night after night she would be here searching the board to be sure folks had at least one response to their questions before she went to bed. If she didn't know the answers (which was rare).. she would bring up the post for the morning crew to see if others might.
NEVER did I see her whimping on the job.. a HARD and exhausting one at that. And she was probably the BEST at providing links for new folks years ago.. and she did it for many years. No one asked her to.. and she got very little thanks for all that hard work.
Sooooooooo.. without actually knowing what has gone on here over the years and to make a general statement like that.. or...
To say that only 2-3 people do this, simply dismisses all of the folks who have gone out of their way to help others over the years.
Perhaps?
```````````````````````````````````````````````
One more comment..
Tree has also been here for years providing help for everyone. His links are invaluable. They are organized.. in one spot.. and that one link can be passed to new folks or old and be VERY helpful. We might want to tell new folks to take time and read through the ones that interest them. I love Tree. He's wonderful!
quote:Originally posted by meg: Betty said: another good idea for ALL to check screens 2 and 3 for any posts with ZERO or 1 reply to them, but just doesn't happen. [b]it's a 2 or 3 of us who take the time to do this. ************************ Betty, this simply is not true.
There are many on this board who will go back more than 3 pages and who regularly bring up posts to answer or for others to answer.
These people don't care if they receive the recogniton that they've done so, they bring them up and make sure there's an answer.
I hope you will reconsider this statement.
meg, i removed that statement that you/tc brought to my attention. so you can delete your post on this one item since it was corrected, and an oversight on my part.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bettyg: certain people add all these articles/pub med, etc. !
BettyG... I recently posted a bunch (6 or so?) of medical abstracts (in the MEDICAL section)... which, when I am busy researching late at night and come across articles I feel may be of interest to some folks, I quickly stick them on the board to see IF members care to take a peak.
And maybe SOME folks do care to see them because they get responses and I noticed folks had discussions about them...
Anyhow.. my guess is the "certain people" you refer to in your story... that you are objecting to so strongly... is me?
But maybe it is lou.. or Cave.. or CaliforniaLyme.. or meg... or nan... or one of several others who have been here for YEARS doing this very thing and helping folks to LEARN and to stay abreast of the latest information.
After all.. we need to remember.. we aren't ALL newbies here.. and we all have a right to use the board equally... and often recently published information is able to help ALL folks.. if they are new to the board or not.
But I AM guilty of posting new abstracts recently... so please feel free to say "Tincup" if you have a problem with something I am doing here. I'd be happy to address it and share my reasons or methods for my madness.
Take Beverly for example. Night after night after night she would be here searching the board to be sure folks had at least one response to their questions before she went to bed. If she didn't know the answers (which was rare).. she would bring up the post for the morning crew to see if others might.
NEVER did I see her whimping on the job.. a HARD and exhausting one at that. And she was probably the BEST at providing links for new folks years ago.. and she did it for many years. No one asked her to.. and she got very little thanks for all that hard work.
Sooooooooo.. without actually knowing what has gone on here over the years and to make a general statement like that.. or...
To say that only 2-3 people do this, simply dismisses all of the folks who have gone out of their way to help others over the years. Perhaps?
```````````````````````````````````````````` One more comment.. Tree has also been here for years providing help for everyone. His links are invaluable. They are organized.. in one spot.. and that one link can be passed to new folks or old and be VERY helpful. We might want to tell new folks to take time and read through the ones that interest them. I love Tree. He's wonderful!Thanks Tree...
tincup, yes, it's all of the above named who bring WONDERFUL things to the board: articles & abstracts.
it's a lot to wade thru daily, and i feel to the NEWBIE overwhelming. where do they start reading with NO prior knowledge after their dx.
i had no knowledge about beverly's efforts on going to screens 2-4, etc. i've just been aware of her name recently; may have seen it earlier; but don't remember ... lyme fog!
so i edited my statement removing that! also added an apology to those i overlooked and just plain didn't know about! when i stated that, it was with what i was seeing at this PRESENT time; not the past years.
treeptrol's newbie links -- TC, i show our 2 lyme petitions shown at the beginning of my newbie links/advise i send to ALL newbies, and brief instructions on how to use the board, using FAQ..Q/A, etc.
then i show treepatrol's newbie links and ask them to print out his list of links advising he updates regularly . then i show dr. b's link for 05 guidelines, etc.
hope this clarifies things for you/others.
IP: Logged |
clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Quote from Betty:
"it's a lot to wade thru daily, and i feel to the NEWBIE overwhelming. where do they start reading with NO prior knowledge after their dx."
That is exactly how I felt when I arrived. Very overwhelmed. I tried to look at these articles, but with no frame of reference, they only confused me. I did not start looking at them until recently now that I have a better understanding of LD. But again, as I mentioned on another post about starting two forums... I do not know if they should be separated out completely... or maybe just limited somehow? Not sure what the best answer is.
If you do keep them here, it might be nice to have people start the title with ARTICLE in large (bold?) letters. Also... Kayda's color coding suggestion for permanent items above the topics, would be very helpful too... easier on our eyes.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
adding: i really like claire's suggestion:
show ARTICLE or PUBMED at beginning of your topic title to save us all time knowing this is what it is about in addition to the specific topic. thanks claire! to all,
i can't remember if i wrote this above or not, but i sent jenifer 2 separate posts about this:
1. can another forum be started for articles, etc.
2. can she implement kay's wonderful idea about having the FEATURE POSTS IN EITHER GREEN OR RED so all know at a glance there is something special about these posts that they will remain on the top until something changes.
i haven't heard anything back from her. i would HOPE she might post her thoughts on THIS THREAD so we all know at same time what CAN/CAN'T be done on this forum .
northstar, would you believe i used to do that too when i 1st came here as it was so overwhelming as claire stated above.
but then there were certain threads i didn't have enough time to read, so if someone didn't respond in the 24 hrs. they were buried and not on ACTIVE today's post option.
so then i would have to go and look them up so i could read/reply. so i decided if i'm coming here to the board to reply to certain ones, it was NOT helping me using the 24 hr. current posts/replies.
so i'd just start at the top and read/skim the ones with SPECIFIC TITLES of things i was interested in.
tincup/others, i know you all do pain-stakingly labors of love researching daily on behalf of yourselves/complete lyme world, and you make the extra efforts to educate us on something you found especially IMPORTANT in your research. I for one DO really appreciate each of your efforts doing this!
it just seems like when they are posted by the variety of you wonderful researchers, they are all posted same day, and then the 1st screen becomes full with these good articles, and the medical QUESTIONS are thrown over onto screens 2 and 3.
when i first came here, there were 4 FULL screens DAILY here of posts/replies; that amount has dropped since folks are now posting in the designated areas vs. ALL in medical.
just wanted to advise what i forgot to address last night when i was so tired in the wee morning hours on here.
IP: Logged |
posted
I just wanted to add my two cents in favor of keeping medical articles on the medical board, not in a separate forum. I think it is a wonderful service to all of us to have this info readily accessible.
Although I could go to a separate forum to read these articles, I really doubt I would. I almost never visit the other forums, even though they contain posts of interest to me, either because I don't think of it or because I don't have time. I know Medical is where I will find posts of most relevance to me.
Hope things stay as they are with respect to the articles. Thanks to all who take the time to find them.
Posts: 164 | From USA | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes to a separate forum fot POSTING medical abstracts AND DISCUSSING the posted abstracts.
We need a place where we can
a)keep abreast with all the new stuff that gets published b)comment on and discuss the research that comes out regularly
Nelly
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
nelly and siggy,
it's good to get perspective from our members in France and Norway! thanks for taking the time to respond and you too Lesley!
IP: Logged |
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
"tincup/others, i know you all do pain-stakingly labors of love .."
NOT love.. necessity...
"researching daily on behalf of yourselves/complete lyme world, and you make the extra efforts to educate us on something you found especially IMPORTANT in your research. I for one DO really appreciate each of your efforts doing this!"
Nice to know someone appreciates it. Thanks.
"it just seems like when they are posted by the variety of you wonderful researchers, they are all posted same day"
Ya know...
Sometimes things happen that are beyond any one person's control.
We may have to just live with it.
Trying to change a whole board and the way things have been done for a long while is a tuff job... especially when many folks aren't real "flexible" cause they are sick.
And to change that system of accidently on a rare ocassion some of us post medical abstracts on the same day....
Well... all of us would have to schedule days and times to post things to correct that. NO NO NO!!! NO MORE RULES!!! PLEASE!!!
Unless EVERYONE schedules time to be here and has to follow special rules about posting stuff in certain places.. and can't post but "x" number of things at one time.. etc... then SOME folks shouldn't be singled out to do so either.
And I'm not at all sure our efforts and energy need to be focused in that direction. Of course, if that is what folks want to spend their time doing.. fine and dandy. It just seems like it isn't on the priority list of things to do in the Lyme community... at least to me it doesn't. But to each his own.
Sometimes if we don't want to see something here, there, or everywhere.. we need to just SOB (scroll on by)... and not stop to complain about it.
That concept REALLY works.
"and then the 1st screen becomes full with these good articles, and the medical QUESTIONS are thrown over onto screens 2 and 3."
Ya know... a simple click of a button will work like magic to get people to page 2! Wouldn't that be easier than posting about how folks shouldn't be doing what they have been doing for YEARS and trying to change an entire system around?
In other words.. why re-invent the wheel? Unless the one we have is on fire?
It seems maybe some folks need to be more tolerant of others ways of doing things, and of their personalities, and of their comments, and of their way of living in general. We aren't all the same.. and that is what I love about this place.
"when i first came here, there were 4 FULL screens DAILY here of posts/replies; that amount has dropped since folks are now posting in the designated areas vs. ALL in medical."
I, for one, kinda miss all the variety and all the posts in one spot.. as I rarely have time to run to all the different sections to check out all that is going on... so I miss a lot of stuff.
But I am not complaining. Not that it would make a difference. It is a FREE service we have here.. and the moderators (who are tied up and VERY busy by the way) will often move stuff to other areas if it is posted in the "wrong spot". They never bothered to do that till some folks complained.
Anyhow.. just so folks know.. my guess is no new sections will be added any time soon. But then again, don't bet the farm on it.
Well... all of us would have to schedule days and times to post things to correct that. NO NO NO!!! NO MORE RULES!!! PLEASE!!!
Unless EVERYONE schedules time to be here and has to follow special rules about posting stuff in certain places.. and can't post but "x" number of things at one time.. etc... then SOME folks shouldn't be singled out to do so either.
But I am not complaining. Not that it would make a difference. It is a FREE service we have here..
Anyhow.. just so folks know.. my guess is no new sections will be added any time soon. But then again, don't bet the farm on it. I am just thankful we have what we have.
tincup,
i was making suggestions as i see it from someone who welcomes newbies, answering their first private messages, and help on finding llmds.
tincup, i shared this recently with melanie r:
for 3 years before i left state employement due to my unknown lyme, i was 1 of 75 employees on a quality management team representing 4,000 employees. i was the secretary rep for complex of 50-75 secretaries/clericals.
during that time, we addressed problems we saw, made up step=by=step procedures to implement, and then implemented them.
we got others suggestions and tried to work them into the scheme of things for a workable plan for all!
i was addressing problems i'm seeing/being told about by privates messages/regular emails.
it's not complaining; it's addressing problems the same way you do things tincup .
also, heard from jenifer but it was about trolls, so i replied asking her to read this thread and the suggestions made.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, I ASKED HER IF THERE COULD BE ANOTHER FORUM AND COLOR-CODING FEATURE POSTS! we'll see.
IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
regarding coloring the 'stickies' a different color:
I moderate another unrelated Infopop forum (infopop's the software that runs this place) and in the version I use ("infopop eve groupee community") there's no way for an administrator to do that. On my 'other' forum we put important info at the very top, above the forum, where this statement currently is:
quote:The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Networ
etc
In forums it's always a challenge to figure out how to feature important information without having 'too many stickies' (ie stickies are the 'featured' threads at the top).
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
maria, thank you for your expertise as a moderator of another lyme forum! always interestng how other boards work.
IP: Logged |
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
It's not a Lyme forum, actually- it's an alternative fuels one (biodiesel.infopop.cc). We struggle with some of the same issues on how to make important info featured without overwhelming newbies. We also have a lot of relatively illiterate or non-computer-literate folks at our forum (guys with big trucks freaking out about gas prices) so we have to make it simple or they won't read it. It's not the same thing as having Lymebrainfog, but the guys at my forum sure act like they're impaired sometimes when it comes to figuring out how 'search' works, etc.
I'm not sure exactly how to make this work well for Lymenet, since in the field of Lyme so much more stuff IS important than at another type of forum.
I do think that separating out into more sections is a good idea, and allowing moderators to move threads into other sections as much as they feel like doing makes it managable.
I actually think they do a great job . How many mods do we have?
Maria
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
meg, thank you for posting she had commented.
i never go to off topic except posting about lou b's heart attack, so i would have missed it; thanks!
-------------- jenifer posted 16-01-2007 10:02 PM
Good Evening Everyone!!
I just wanted to let you know that I am aware there is discussion of having a new forum or two. I am looking into whether this is feasible. If so, I will determine how many and which forums to add.
I appreciate those opinions that have been voiced. I will take them all into concideration and will determine what will be best for LymeNet .
I am also looking into changing the color of the font for the stickies at the top of each forum to help them stand out more .
Posts: 177 | From: Upstate New York, USA | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged ***********************
fyi only
jenifer also told me last night if you need to email her, please email her directly at the above link vs. a PM (since it holds 60 notes only) and she keeps tracks of notes in outlook express!
IP: Logged |
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Anyone interested in weighing in on whether or not to increase topics per page from 50 to 75, please vote here: Off Topic- Opinion Poll.
I think this would be a definite help until everything else gets sorted out & decided! We could always vote to change it back if it stinks!
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
bettyg
Unregistered
posted
ali, thanks so much for posting this here! i don't go to off topic so would have never seen it!!
also, i replied on there asking if they can go to 75; why not 100 MAX per screen.
i see one person chose to leave it as is.
IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
and PLEASE SHOW RESPECT after all the fighting that has been on the board lately. thank you! ![[group hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[kiss]](graemlins/kissing.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic