cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
Great Article Scott- Im going to reread it when Im more awake and able to comprehend it more and relate it to my illness.
I have all of the markers of a biotoxin illness.
Thanks again for the article
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Thanks
I think the message is an important and overlooked one.
Take care
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good morning Scott,
Quick question for you.
(Sorry, I haven't had time to research this or read your latest article, so please forgive me in advance...)
If I can smell a definite mold source in my home, does that automatically mean that the mold toxins are airborne and therefore already doing damage?
Thanks for your insights, melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
If you can smell mold, it sounds very possible. Not everyone is genetically susceptible to mold though - about 25%. So you would need to know your HLA status. I would also put out some plates and see what shows up mold-wise. www.moldlabintl.com. I would definitely do that test.
My opinion is that people with chronic illness in moldy homes don't get well. Moving is often the only option and then people see significant changes. Not a given, but more likely the rule than the exception for those that are mold biotoxin susceptible genetically.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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I have had HLA testing that shows, according to Dr. Shoemaker's gene code, I'm mold susceptible and can't elliminate toxins.
I can't find any source--medical papers or scientific research--besides Dr. Shoemaker that attributes these HLA types to these problems.
From my experience with treatment attempts, I'm not disputing his claims. I would just like to read more, and he doesn't give any references in either "Desperation Medicine" or "Mold Warriors".
I am also sitting here steaming because the other "expert" Dr. S in your newsletter treated me with cholestyramine without pretreating with Actos, and it did exactly what Dr. Shoemaker said it would do to a person with Lyme Disease. It about killed me the pain was so bad.
It is disheartening indeed to not be able to trust anyone, but quite simply, I no longer do.
Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I had a similar experience with being given CSM and the doctor not clearly understanding the need for Actos. Fortunately, it did not cause me any significant problems.
Unfortunately, I cannot provide support for Dr. Shoemaker's research and work. He's very leading edge and it is not a surprise that other doctors are not yet aware of his theories.
Hopefully the article will help others to avoid some of the issues like you mentioned... Be well
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Melanie, if you can smell it you need to move or get a good dehumidifier and dry out everything and attempt to find the source and clean or fix it. Throw out anything that is contaminated and that you can live without.
Scott--As for the good Dr. S, I was asked to recind a critical reply a couple of years ago but I can say this, he is a genius but he let us down at a important time, when my daughter's life was held in the balance and never adequately explained the actos use to us. His secretary completely cut us off when we had questions. Think he was too interested in talking to a publisher or someone. He had tunnel vision with the mold at the time and would not accept the tick borne disease infections since my daughter was not CDC positive.
We never received an apology. Just the file. And then an order form.
Would I recommend him, certainly, if you could not get the help you needed but I have reservations about him.
Everyone needs to consider his info however in order to recover. lymemomtooo
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
I have not seen him as a patient. I am not advocating him as a doctor for inidivual cases. My article was written to spread his message which I think is valid, current, and important.
I am sorry to hear of your experience though. That is not right. None of these docs are perfect but hopefully each brings some puzzle pieces to the picture...
Take care
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good morning,
Thanks for the responses LMT and Scott! I really do appreciate your collective help!
I wanted to clarify a bit though...my house structure itself does NOT have any mold that I am aware of. I am however; aware of a few places within the house that mold has developed.
The first, and the only one I can ``smell'', is the garbage can. I think there were some coffee grounds that fell to the bottom of it under the plastic bags, which have taken up residence and created a lovely environment for mold. I intend to take this outside and scour it with bleach, but as of yet, just have not found the energy.
The second source is a houseplant that lives in deep shade. I noticed just a few days ago, that mushrooms and misc. other fungi are thriving there on top of the soil.
The final places that I am aware of are in the sinks and shower of my kitchen and bathroom. At times, a red film will develop on any remaining water left there overnight.
I'll go and read your article now and take a look at the other link you provided, Scott.
Thanks so much to both of you for all of your help with this and with so many other things!
Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
It is from the EPA and speaks mainly to clean-up and prevention.
``...indoors, mold growth should be avoided. Molds reproduce by means of tiny spores; the spores are invisible to the naked eye and float through outdoor and indoor air.''
``Inhaling or touching mold or mold spores may cause allergic reactions in sensitive individuals.''
``Research on mold and health effects is ongoing. This brochure provides a brief overview; it does not describe all potential health effects related to mold exposure. For more detailed information consult a health professional. You may also wish to consult your state or local health department.''
The article in PHA was great- Much of it really resonates with me, so thanks for writing it!
I also have a particular interest in mold as my sister is in New Orleans and is STILL dealing with the after effects of mold pollution there. Just last week she went through her final personal things that have been sitting for nearly 2 years...so much had to be tossed. Very heart-wrenching, indeed.
Many in her predicament are suffering with unexplained health issues since Katrina, and I am certain that this is a huge factor.
OK, I am off to do some mold removal
Thanks Scott for your continued search for answers, and for sharing those findings with us!
My best, Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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lymemomtooo
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Member # 5396
posted
Get rid of the plant. It may be contaminating the whole house.
While it is nice to have house plants, they are potential mold hazzards.
Outside all molds, and others critters keep one another in check naturally. This does not happen in the house and there is no control so they can go haywire quickly.
As I write this, I have about 10 houseplants..So I am not a good role model..lmt
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
You are welcome. I had learned about Dr. S. research over a year ago and understood it at a basic level, but then writing the article was a good reason for me to have to dig a bit deeper and understand the details. I think the biotoxin issue is a very big one.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If you suspect mold in your home, you really need to get it tested. An industrial hygiene company would be best; but you can buy testers at home supply stores. Mold removal is a very dangerous thing. This really must be done by professionals.
I worry about the people recovering from Katrina, because I am quite sure the mold removal is not being done properly. It is expensive, and who would be paying for it?
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
My bedroom is in our house's basement. Should I move upstairs? I am not sure if I am sensitive to molds. I do know that the basement I live in has mold. The bathroom next to my room has a "soggy" ceiling and mold growing under the flooring.
What should I do?
Posts: 204 | From Wyoming | Registered: Feb 2003
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
GREAT article Scott, very informative!
Keep up the good work, we are helping educate the masses!
Or in the case of PHA...waking up the nation!
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
I worry about the people recovering from Katrina, because I am quite sure the mold removal is not being done properly. It is expensive, and who would be paying for it?
Mostly, the individuals effected are paying dearly for it in many ways...with their health, time and very limited resources.
Many can NOT even afford this as it means basically gutting the entire structure down to the studs or foundation.
Once that daunting job is complete...who has the ability or means left to rebuild? Very very few.
And where does this mold infested debris go to? Usually, it sits on the front sidewalk for weeks or months...and eventually (sometimes, not always) finds its way to another location to spread elsewhere into another environment.
The disaster happening there is a daily crisis- still. And I am certain that we are only beginning to see the after effects of this sustained unhealthy atmosphere on the people and all living things who reside there.
(sorry, but when you know and love those who actually live there- this hits very close to home...and this alone has kept me from returning home so far)
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Clarissa
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Member # 4715
posted
Up...
great article about biotoxins from Mold Warriors author.
posted
I lived in a brand new house that turned out to be full of mold. I was sick every day and told by Dr. S. himself that I did not have Lyme and that my problems were all mold related
After years of persuasion my husband finally agreed to move and we went to a drier area-no wetlands and guess what-nothing changed. I was expecting a miraculous recovery and I got worse since being off antibiotics.
Another biotoxin expert in Pennsylvania told me that if you have mold in your body from exposure you will take it with you when you move so it is best to be treated once you move. At this point I don't know with what. I took cholestyramine and welchol with disastrous effects and even glutathione IV's didn't make me feel better.
I know my husband is upset because he loved our old house and even though I didn't improve when we moved I am glad we moved anyway. Illness leaves a lot of bad memories.
Posts: 425 | From NY, United States | Registered: Mar 2005
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oxygenbabe
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Member # 5831
posted
Actos is an NF Kappa B inhibitor. That is a central molecule in inflammation. I know a doc using it with autistic children to downregulate inflammation and it is being studied for that now. However it may cause heart issues from my recollection. Maybe somewhat like Avandia?
I have read the article. I have an issue with the fact that there are no pubmed sources cited here. I understand it is a distillation of his work but where does he get all this information? Also EPO and ACTOS are not drugs to be taken likely. EPO now has more black-box type labelling than it ever did.
I don't know if there is any proof whatsoever that a specific HLA type doesn't eliminate biotoxins. Has there ever been research? Same with MSH. Same with his suppositions about pathways and effects etc. No citation of ANY sources. Who knows whether its verifiable but not so useful to me if I have to spend a couple days figuring that out.
It is nice and important to have theories but they should be stated as medical hypotheses. A novel mechanism has been proposed, so let's study it.
I happened to read WildCondor's article too. Laura I'm glad you're feeling well. OTOH I feel you did a disservice to two very valuable therapies, multiple chambers and mild chambers.
Again, I understand this is just a newsletter and doesn't follow or have to follow the rules of good science and health journalism, but that would be to present a rounded view with other opinions. For instance, Scott could find and talk to experts in MSH, or HLA subtypes by doing a pubmed search, and see what they think of this theory. He could probably find the principle investigator of the study at three universities that is now underway on Actos in gut infammation in autistic children; in addition a pilot study was already published.
Laura could tell her own story exactly as she did but include people who felt multi place chambers had helped bring wellness both with and without aggressive abx therapy, and even people who feel mild home chambers are useful. For instance, Laura liked the monochamber and was able to fall asleep in it. I in contrast can't tolerate a monochamber. I tried one twice--once very early in my lyme experience, the summer I got it, and once a few years ago at Julia's. Well apparently I can't equalize my left ear in a monochamber. The first time I had such severe vertigo from that ear when I got out I could barely walk. The second time, at Julia's, I apparently blew out that ear. I didn't know it at the time. Later I had excruciating pain and it filled with fluid and was hard to hear for days. Ever since then, that ear has periodically been a problem with benign positional vertigo, and feeling stuffed and weird. In addition, a monochamber feels like a coffin to me and I feel hysterically panicked in one. In contrast, I can sit up and move around in a multichamber or in my mild chamber. Sitting up it's easier to pressurize my ears. There are actual structural reasons for this in some of us.
However monochambers are wonderful things and many have been tremendously helped by them and some people prefer them. So if I just told my story, and only my story, lots of people would get scared about monochambers.
I don't mean to get people upset with this. Everybody is trying to help and I appreciate that. Its just that when its one person's opinion or hypothesis how useful is it?
I will add that for those who don't want to take drugs, the researcher/doc pioneering the Actos in gut inflammation in autistic children has told me that natural substances can help downregulate NFKappa B too including feverfew.
Also for those with lots of funds, Comitras, or car-t-cell by Atrium Biotech, a frozen peptide, downregulates MMP-9.
Wishing you all a happy boxing day.
[ 26. December 2007, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
I live in Northern Illinois and I remember within the past year that NBC Channel 5 News had a news report on the drug Actos and there was a problem with it. I don't recall what, but I think it was held under scrutiny. Can anyone help me out here?
Thanks, CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for the info oxygenbabe.
I agree - there are alot of theories but it's all just experimental unless there are additional studies & research.
Sometimes what is good in theory doesn't always translate into actually helping someone.
There's alot of snake oil salesmen (& women) out there & there's alot of money to be made.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Yet to read his book but I feel he needs to try and find natural alternatives to the drugs he normally uses. Maybe ask Buhner? I have heard oats mentioned but they have gluten in!
wallace Submitted by Jim K on Sun, 2008-02-10 10:18. Cpn Handbook | Supplements One of the discussions over the years has been the use of binding agents to soak up fat-soluble porphyrins dumped into the digestive tract by the liver, and keep them from getting re-absorbed on their way through the digestive tract. This not only lowers the immediate porphyria reactions, but helps over time to lower the total body load of fat-stored porphyrins. Some people with Cpni don't appear to be bothered much by porphyria and find binding agents not at all helpful, others find it life saving as porphyria is a big component of their distress from Cpn. Since some tissues like the liver and bone marrow are bigger producers of heme, it stands to reason that Cpn infectionsi in these tissues would probably create the worst secondary porphyriai. If your primary infection site is in tissues not productive of heme you will likely not have as much porphyria.
Anyway, anecdotal reports on www.cpnhelp.org are that some people find prescription cholestyramine (Questran) to be more effective than the cheaper OTC activated charcoal, while others find the charcoal to be just the ticket. There is even a pricey but flavored choco-mint powdered form of activated charcoal! I have likened this to taking choco-mint flavored xerox toner, but it is a way to get a bigger dose of charcoal without capsules.
Then I read that there is a "Super charcoal" which has double to triple the absorbtive capacity of the regular stuff, meaning that less is needed for the same effect. In trying to find out more, I came upon a page that listed a bunch of medline comparisons between cholestyramine and activated charcoal. I've copied these below and highlighted the conclusions. There may be some newer studies to add as this has not been updated in a while. It is my impression that some of these studies were done to test a specific brand of super charcoal, and so keep that in mind. The general conclusion is that the activated charcoals are as effective as cholestyramine in lowering cholesteroli, and binding with Fats, and (this should generalize to porphyrins as well). It does appear that the superactivated versions are more effective at binding some of the porphyrins than regular AC's.
TI: Sorbent therapy of the porphyriasi. IV. Adsorption of porphyrins by sorbents in vitro. AU: Tishler-PV; Winston-SH SO: Methods-Find-Exp-Clin-Pharmacol. 1985 Sep; 7(9): 485-91 ISSN: 0379-0355 PY: 1985 LA: ENGLISH CP: SPAIN AB: The adsorption capacities (Qm's) of the ion exchange resin cholestyramine and 8 activated charcoals for uroporphyrin, protoporphyrin and coproporphyrin, porphyrins that accumulate within tissues or vasculature in certain porphyrias, have been determined. Qm's (mg porphyrin/gm dry sorbent) were derived from Langmuir isotherms, which were constructed from experiments that assessed the amount of porphyrin adsorbed after the addition of varying amounts of porphyrin in solution to a constant amount of sorbent. These experiments were carried out at pH 8.2 in 0.5% desoxycholate, to simulate conditions of the small intestine. For uroporphyrin I, the Qm for Amoco Supersorb PX-21 highly activated charcoal was greater than that for cholestyramine (mean +/- SD of 26.5 +/- 12.7 vs. 17.0 +/- 2.6; t'32 = 2.46, P less than 0.025) and highly significantly greater than those of the other charcoals. For protoporphyrin IX, cholestyramine and Amoco Supersorb PX-21 charcoal had the highest Qm's (32.4 +/- 8.6 and 30.9 +/- 9.2), but these were not significantly greater than the Qm's of 5 other charcoals. Little difference was found among sorbents in the rate of adsorption of either porphyrin. For coproporphyrin III, the Qm's of cholestyramine and Amoco Supersorb PX-21 charcoal were not significantly different (39.2 +/- 13.7 vs. 35.1 +/- 4.0) but they were greater than that of Norit USP XX (20.0). Virtually no desorption of porphyrin from either cholestyramine or Amoco Supersorb PX-21 charcoal was detected. Both cholestyramine and Amoco Supersorb PX-21 charcoal appear to be highly avid sorbents for porphyrins of varied states of carboxylation.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) MESH: Adsorption-; Human-; In-Vitro; Liver-Diseasesi-etiology; Liver-Diseases-therapy; Porphyria-complications; Porphyrins-; Support,-U.S.-Gov't,-Non-P.H.S. MESH: *Charcoal-therapeutic-use; *Cholestyramine-therapeutic-use; *Porphyria-therapy; *Skin-Diseases-therapy RN: 11041-12-6; 16291-96-6 NM: Cholestyramine; Charcoal AN: 86090956 UD: 8604
TI TITLE: Sorbent therapy of the porphyrias. V. Adsorption of the porphyrin precursors delta-aminolevulinic acid and porphobilinogen by sorbents in vitro. AU AUTHOR(S): Winston-SH; Tishler-PV SO SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION): Methods-Find-Exp-Clin-Pharmacol. 1986 Apr; 8(4): 233-7 PY PUBLICATION YEAR: 1986 LA LANGUAGE OF ARTICLE: ENGLISH CP COUNTRY OF PUBLICATION: SPAIN AB ABSTRACT: The acute attacks of the acute hepatic porphyrias may be precipitated by the excessive intracellulari accumulation of the porphyrin precursors delta-aminolevulinic acid (ALA) or porphobilinogen (PBG). Sorbents that bind porphyrin precursors in the gastrointestinal tract may interrupt their enterohepatic circulation, thus reducing the body burden of these materials and minimizing the frequency or severity of acute attacks. We have determined the adsorption capacities (Qm's) of several activated charcoals and the ion exchange resin cholestyramine for ALA and PBG. Qm's (mg ALA or PBG adsorbed/gm dry sorbent) were determined from Langmuir isotherms, which were derived from studies of the amount of porphyrin precursor adsorbed after the addition of a constant amount of ALA or PBG to varying amounts of sorbent. These experiments were carried out pH 8.2 in 0.1% desoxycholate, to simulate conditions of the small intestine. Extremely high Qm's were obtained for all charcoals and both porphyrin precursors; those for cholestyramine were one or several orders of magnitude lower. For ALA, the Qm of Gulf Bio-Systems Super Char charcoal (110 +/- 35 [SD]) was not significantly greater than that of Med-Corp Acta-Char charcoal (95 +/- 20), but it did exceed those of all other charcoals by a statistically significant amount. For PBG, the Qm of Super Char (68 +/- 14) was marginally greater than that of Mallinckrodt USP charcoal (42 +/- 21, t8 = 2.18, p approximately equal to 0.06), but it was significantly greater than that of Acta-Char charcoal (27 +/- 12). All sorbents adsorbed ALA or PBG at comparable rates, and the complex of sorbent and porphyrin precursor appeared to be undissociable.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS) MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: Adsorption-; Kinetics-; Support,-U.S.-Gov't,-Non-P.H.S. MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: *Aminolevulinic-Acid; *Charcoal-; *Cholestyramine-; *Levulinic-Acids; *Porphobilinogen- RN CAS REGISTRY NUMBER OR EC NUMBER: 106-60-5; 11041-12-6; 16291-96-6; 487-90-1 NM NAME OF SUBSTANCE: Aminolevulinic-Acid; Cholestyramine; Charcoal; Porphobilinogen ISSN INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SERIAL NUMBER: 0379-0355 AN MEDLINE ACCESSION NUMBER: 86255821 UD UPDATE CODE: 8610
TI TITLE: Correlative studies of the hypocholesterolemic effect of a highly activated charcoal. AU AUTHOR(S): Tishler-PV; Winston-SH; Bell-SM AD ADDRESS OF AUTHOR: Brockton/West Roxbury Veterans Administration Medical Center, MA. SO SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION): Methods-Find-Exp-Clin-Pharmacol. 1987 Dec; 9(12): 799-806 PY PUBLICATION YEAR: 1987 LA LANGUAGE OF ARTICLE: ENGLISH CP COUNTRY OF PUBLICATION: SPAIN AB ABSTRACT: We have carried out in vitro and animal studies to determine the cholesterol lowering efficacy of activated charcoals vs. cholestyramine. In the in vitro studies, we determined the adsorption capacity (Qm) of cholestyramine and activated charcoals for cholesterol in glacial acetic acid. Mean (+/- SD) Qm's (mg cholesterol adsorbed/gm dry sorbent) decreased in the order Super Char highly activated charcoal (277 +/- 121), Norit USP XX charcoal (33 +/- 10), Acta-Char charcoal (26 +/- 4), Mallinckrodt USP charcoal (26 +/- 10), Norit A charcoal (22 +/- 4) and cholestyramine (0). For the bile salt sodium desoxycholate in ammonia: sodium bicarbonate, pH 8.2, the Qm with cholestyramine was 4641 +/- 2669 and with Super Char was 2814 +/- 667 (p = 0.11). We then contrasted the effect of cholestyramine (1%, added to the diet) and Super Char (1% or 2%) on plasma cholesterol concentrations in rabbits made hypercholesterolemic with a diet containing casein. The percent reductions were 61 in one rabbit fed chole styramine, 61 and 67 in two rabbits fed 1% Super Char, and 90 in one rabbit fed 2% Super Char. In WHHL homozygous rabbits, reductions in plasma cholesterol from pre-treatment and post-treatment levels, respectively, averaged 52% and 38% with 2% cholestyramine (2 animals), 70% and 43% with 2% Super Char (2 animals), and 70% and 63% with 4% Super Char (3 animals). The effectiveness of cholestyramine in animals that lack functional cellular receptors for low density lipoprotein was unexpected. Super Char charcoal appears to be an effective hypocholesterolemic agent, warranting study in man. MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: Animal-; Cholestyramine-therapeutic-use; Comparative-Study; Deoxycholic-Acid-pharmacology; In-Vitro; Rabbits-; Support,-U.S.-Gov't,-Non-P.H.S. MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: *Anticholesteremic-Agents-therapeutic-use; *Charcoal-therapeutic-use; *Hypercholesterolemia-drug-therapy RN CAS REGISTRY NUMBER OR EC NUMBER: 11041-12-6; 16291-96-6; 83-44-3 NM NAME OF SUBSTANCE: Cholestyramine; Charcoal; Deoxycholic-Acid ISSN INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SERIAL NUMBER: 0379-0355 AN MEDLINE ACCESSION NUMBER: 88156426 UD UPDATE CODE: 8806
TI TITLE: Superactivated charcoal versus cholestyramine for cholesterol lowering: a randomized cross-over trial. AUTHOR(S): Park-GD; Spector-R; Kitt-TM AD ADDRESS OF AUTHOR: Department of Internal Medicine, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City. SO SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION): J-Clin-Pharmacol. 1988 May; 28(5): 416-9 ISSN INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SERIAL NUMBER: 0091-2700 PY PUBLICATION YEAR: 1988 LA LANGUAGE OF ARTICLE: ENGLISH CP COUNTRY OF PUBLICATION: UNITED-STATES AB ABSTRACT: To evaluate the relative abilities of superactivated charcoal (20 g twice daily) and cholestyramine (8 g twice daily) to lower plasma cholesterol concentrations acutely, six hypercholesterolemic patients were studied using a randomized cross-over design. After a 1-week dietary control period, each subject received 3 weeks of each treatment regimen on separate occasions. Superactivated charcoal and cholestyramine reduced total plasma cholesterol by 21.8 +/- 3.8% and 16.2 +/- 2.4%, respectively. Side effects were mild and similar for both treatments. At the dosage regimens studied, superactivated charcoal and cholestyramine have comparable ability to lower plasma cholesterol concentrations. MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: Adult-; Charcoal-adverse-effects; Cholestyramine-adverse-effects; Clinical-Trials; Diet-; Female-; Human-; Male-; Middle-Age; Random-Allocation; Support,-Non-U.S.-Gov't; Support,-U.S.-Gov't,-P.H.S.; Time-Factors; Triglycerides-blood MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: *Anticholesteremic-Agents; *Charcoal-pharmacology; *Cholesterol-blood; *Cholestyramine-pharmacology PT PUBLICATION TYPE: CLINICAL-TRIAL CN CONTRACT OR GRANT NUMBERS: RR59 RN CAS REGISTRY NUMBER OR EC NUMBER: 11041-12-6; 16291-96-6; 57-88-5 NM NAME OF SUBSTANCE: Cholestyramine; Charcoal; Cholesterol AN MEDLINE ACCESSION NUMBER:88273727 UD UPDATE CODE: 8810
TI TITLE: Activated charcoal in the treatment of hypercholesterolaemia: dose-response relationships and comparison with cholestyramine. AU AUTHOR(S): Neuvonen-PJ; Kuusisto-P; Vapaatalo-H; Manninen-V AD ADDRESS OF AUTHOR: Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, Finland. SO SOURCE (BIBLIOGRAPHIC CITATION): Eur-J-Clin-Pharmacol. 1989; 37(3): 225-30 ISSN INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SERIAL NUMBER: 0031-6970 PY PUBLICATION YEAR: 1989 LA LANGUAGE OF ARTICLE: ENGLISH CP COUNTRY OF PUBLICATION: GERMANY-WEST AB ABSTRACT: The dose-response relationship of activated charcoal in reducing serum cholesterol was determined and the effects of charcoal and cholestyramine were compared in patients with hypercholesterolaemia. In a cross-over study 7 patients ingested charcoal 4, 8, 16 or 32 g/day, and finally bran, each phase lasting for 3 weeks. Serum total and LDL-cholesterol were decreased (maximum 29% and 41%, respectively) and the ratio of HDL/LDL-cholesterol was increased (maximum 121%) by charcoal in a dose dependent manner. Ten further patients with severe hypercholesterolaemia ingested daily for 3 weeks, in random order, activated charcoal 16 g, cholestyramine 16 g, activated charcoal 8 g + cholestyramine 8 g, or bran. The concentrations of total and LDL-cholesterol were reduced by charcoal (23% and 29%, respectively), cholestyramine (31% and 39%) and their combination (30% and 38%). The ratio of HDL/LDL-cholesterol was increased from 0.13 to 0.23 by charcoal, to 0.29 by cholestyramine, and to 0.25 by their combination. Serum triglycerides were increased by cholestyramine but not by charcoal. Other parameters, including the serum concentrations of vitamin A, E and 25(OH)D3 remained unaffected. The changes in lipids only partly subsided during the 3-week bran phase. In general, the acceptability by the patients and the efficacy of activated charcoal, cholestyramine and their combination were about equal, but there were individual preferences for particular treatments. MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: Adult-; Cholesterol-blood; Comparative-Study; Dose-Response-Relationship,-Drug; Drug-Therapy,-Combination; Female-; Human-; Hypercholesterolemia,-Familial-blood; Lipoproteins,-HDL-Cholesterol-blood; Lipoproteins,-LDL-Cholesterol-blood; Male-; Middle-Age; Support,-Non-U.S.-Gov't; Triglycerides-blood MESH MEDICAL SUBJECT HEADINGS: *Charcoal-therapeutic-use; *Cholestyramine-therapeutic-use; *Hypercholesterolemia,-Familial-drug-therapy RN CAS REGISTRY NUMBER OR EC NUMBER: 11041-12-6; 16291-96-6; 57-88-5 NM NAME OF SUBSTANCE: Cholestyramine; Charcoal; Cholesterol AN MEDLINE ACCESSION NUMBER:
Posts: 654 | Registered: Oct 2003
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Here is an interesting site on Fungus and health.
I little too much self promotion, but some good links and other info.
posted
Just got Mold Warriors and am impressed so far.
He mentions two cfs docs Petersen and De Meirleir not then interested in his theories. They still arent, at a conference on CFS I attended Mold wasnt mentioned by either of them.
I like the fact that even though he knows whats wrong he admits that he doesnt always have the right treatment. He seems rather conventional in his treatment ideas, keeping to prescribed medicines. Lots of docs never mention they have failures!!
I dont suppose Dr K would have a big problem with what he is proposing.
He says 75% would benefit from living at high altitude. Any one feel better in the mountains?
posted
Whats his rationale for people feeling better at a higher altitude? Is this for Lyme or Mold when he refers to this? Also, has anyone actually seen Dr. S that wrote mold warriors?
Posts: 116 | From Ann Arbor, MI | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I moved from below sea level from a house where stachybotrus (black mold) was found to 8000 ft above. I feel better, but I am on cholestyramine and a lot of other protocols.
Posts: 830 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2005
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He ran all kinds of his own patented blood tests on me and was able to find that I do not have the capacity to eliminate mold from my system very well--even though I do have the ability to eliminate Lyme fairly well. But it's a catch 22, because he claims you can't get better from Lyme if you're exposed to mold.
He's big on cholestyramine for me. I'm currently living in Florida--and obviously mold is everywhere in Florida.
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i tested a long time ago for allergies. i'm allergic to dust,pollen, mold, cedar, elm, oak, grass, you name it.
is this the same thing???
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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hshbmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9478
posted
I'm taking my child to Dr. S. in MD ...hopefully at the end of March. It may have to be a little later.
My child's pain specialist made the referral.
Our home used to be a meth lab. The house was foreclosed and sat empty for several years. The roof leaked and now there is black moldy insulation in the attic. It needs replaced, but that's my husband's job...I worry about all the other stuff.
The cement slab under the kitchen floor was very dark. I saw the slab when the floor was replaced before we bought the house. I remember some mold odor at that time, but don't notice any now. The site was not well graded & rain drained under/on the slab. We have had the site graded and solved that problem.
The kitchen sink was poorly installed. The drain pipe leaked under the base of the cabinet and smells musty. This has been repaired.
Our tub enclosures were replaced before we bought the house. They are 2-piece units that overlap in the middle. I wonder if they should have been caulked? It looks like water drains to the front of the tub along that seam...making the drywall damp, allowing mold to grow.
One of my children with chronic Lyme disease has severe neuropathy and has not improved in over a year. This child is out of school due to pain and receives homebound education. She also has a seizure-like movement disorder.
Posts: 1672 | From AL/WV/OH | Registered: Jun 2006
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I have visible mold in my house (I'm moving, fortunately) and so Dr. S has me taking cholestyramine.
He was able to test me with one of his patented blood tests and find that I am genetically inclined to remove Lyme from my system pretty well--but not mold--and mold makes it more difficult to recover from Lyme, so it's a catch 22. Hopefully lab work will show that the cholestyramine is working.
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Oops--I posted twice--when I came back to this topic I couldn't find my previous post! Either that's pretty bad Lyme brain or my computer is weird. (I think I know which one it is, lol!)
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Oops--I posted twice--when I came back to this topic I couldn't find my previous post! Either that's pretty bad Lyme brain or my computer is weird. (I think I know which one it is, lol!)
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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posted
As I understand it he is saying that repairing the mold isnt enough. You need to move as you now have a sensitivity to it. But your possessions and clothes(I know you can wash clothes but will that remove all the mold?) do they also need to be gotton rid of because they are now contaminated? Any thoughts? This is straight out of Kafka!!!
I have moved but I still have my clothes!!!
I am going to order his earlier book Desperation Medicine to see how his views have evolved.
A long time ago I tested positive to his VCS test.
He seems a nice guy. Does he come across that way personally?
posted
I just read on the website of the Office for Environmental Safety that you should simply launder clothing. But I think I would toss any clothing that has VISIBLE mold. I have bags of clothing and other items out in my garage that were removed by the company who did our remediation. I think they gave me the same advice about laundering. I won't tell you how long those bags have been sitting out there, but long enough for me to forget their instructions!
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
I have mold in my home too. Ive been told I wont get well from the infections until I either get rid of the mold or move.
Thing is , what if i move to an even worse place? The house across the street had severe mold, and new owner just covered it up before they re-sold it.
What is it about the mold, that doesnt allow us to recover from the lyme?
Ive read mold warriors, but im still confused about this one.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
As I understand it, this is not an allergy to mold. Mold spores carry toxins. Everyone inhales them, and usually they make their way through and out the body with little or no disruption. But if you have the genetic vulnerablilty, you don't eliminate as efficiently. Again, no big deal UNTIL you get hit with a massive/continuous amount that triggers the disabling of that gene. Or, if you get hit with another toxin-producing thing - borrelia for example, then you really decrease your ability to eliminate efficiently. In my daughter's case, she has little or no MSH or VEGF, which are necessary for this process, I suppose. Simplistic answer, I know. I have trouble understanding his book too. But I am convinced that detoxing is the key to level of recovery. The more effectively you can detox, the better you will be.
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Nicole is terribly allergic to Molds. This is what we orrigonally thought were causing her headaches, pain etc 8 years ago.
What I did not know was that removing her from the sourse wouldn't do the trick. I did not know this stuff just stays in your system and keeps you sick even if you remove the mold sourse. We moved but that didn't do it.
So from what I am reading here since we know mold is an issue for her we need to address the mold. How?
I feel so stupid, I don't get this stuff. And I am not a stupid person.
I am usually the kind of person who wants all the info, all the research so I can make a decision. I don't just let other people to make decisions for me and blindly follow along. But right now I feel incapable of figuring this out and wish someone would just open the Magic Answere Book to the right page for me.
Dara
Posts: 93 | From Illinois / Ontario | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I think going on cholestyramine will address the mold--remove it and other toxins from her system.
Dr. S said that the reason a lot of Lyme treatment doesn't work is that very few llmds understand how mold hinders Lyme treatment.
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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cantgiveupyet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8165
posted
I had some validation of my mold reaction today. My brother came to visit, and said he started to get really sick and nausous upstairs in my apartment(im in the attic)... I get sick that feeling too when Im up there. Sigh.
I think my major exposure was at my former employer, and then this home, and possibly a reinfection with lyme and company..too much.
What is strange is my symptoms vary, wouldnt they be constant due to the mold exposure?
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
my apartment has mold from a radiator leak and i just bought a way-too-expensive air purifier, like the one to which scott links on his site.. i'm wondering if that will help things at all? i know ideally i need to move, but that isn't an option at the moment. right now we're trying to work with the landlord to clean everything out and remediate the apartment, but it's a slow process because of course it's expensive and he doesn't want to cooperate. argh.
anyway, just wondering if anyone has any experience with air purifiers/ionizers in a room with mold (the mold/leak is in the living room), and what your results have been.
posted
Don't buy the ion purifiers! Buy one with a true hepa filter. This advice came from an industrial environmentalist who tested our house for mold.
Another piece of advice he gave us - if you see evidence of mold, DO NOT disturb it in any way - cleaning it, cutting out wallboard, etc. It is when the spores go airborne that they affect you. You really need to have a mold remediation specialist do it.
As for Chlostyramine, my daughter did a strict 3-month protocol and became symptom-free. Symptoms did return eventually, though, probably because of re-exposure and stopping the protocol. It is not an easy protocol, but it is effective if done correctly. Her stomach can not tolerate it anymore, so she does herbal detox. We haven't found any that are quite as effective as the CSM. Has anyone else?
Posts: 422 | From Herndon, Virginia | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I started using the csm that was prescribed by my doctor. It contains sugar, and I started breaking out, and gaining weight. I ordered pure csm from a compounding pharmacy. Is the whole point that csm is all soluable fiber?
Other products that are soluable fiber are coconut flour, and lo carb thickeners that are entirely soluable fiber (Like Thick'n'thin Not Starch). Couldn't these products accomplish the same purpose?
They are less expensive, so I'd like to know if there's something special or different about the csm.
Posts: 563 | From New Mexico, USA | Registered: May 2007
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