posted
Very interesting effects from turmeric (curcumin). For 10 days I took 300 mg Solaray Turmeric at breakfast daily. Within two days I experienced a marked increase in some of my inflammatory symptoms, including voicebox and sinus swelling. Acne increased significantly, and I also became itchy. I felt as if I was herxing more, almost too much. I stopped the turmeric, and after a day or two the symptoms diminished, and I felt slightly better than I had before the 10 day trial. Then I restarted the turmeric, and experienced a repeat of what I had the first time.
For me turmeric defintely does something. I've read here that some consider it an anti-inflammatory, but my reaction was more the opposite. Did I feel worse because turmeric was letting the infection grow worse, or because my immune system was killing more bugs? As many of us here know, sometimes it's difficult to distinguish. Because I felt better after stopping the turmeric, better than before the trial, my guess is I was experiencing herx from killing more bugs. Has anyone else experienced similar with turmeric?
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Areneli
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posted
You took VERY low dose
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I'm the oddball on here. I have noticed a definitive pattern with regards to my symptoms, allowing me to distinguish between a herx (good) and an allergic reaction (bad).
If I am herxing (good), I take the medication, feel good almost IMMEDIATELY, however briefly, THEN notice an increase in pain, inflammation, and swelling, eventually followed by feeling better than before I ever took the medication.
On the other hand, if I am having an allergic reaction to the medication, I fail to notice that initial brief reduction in symptoms. Instead, I take the medication, pain/inflammation/swelling increases, and there is relatively no change once the medication is stopped for better or worse.
I disagree with a lot of people on here who think that the more pain they feel, the more bugs they are killing. Not true. Remember, spices such as tumeric contain vitamins and minerals, too, some of which are 'food' for these bugs.
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Vermont_Lymie
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posted
I had the same reaction. I took two New Chapter Tumeric (extract and tumeric) a day for a week, and at least for that week, felt awful. Difficulty breathing and very weak. I do not know if it was a herx, but I stopped taking the tumeric after that!
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
hi dguy
Just wanted to say make sure to talk to your doc about this supp....there is always a chance it could interferr with your other meds or cause a cross reaction. That being said...
I also took the new chapter but one a day. And then one every other day. If it's too much you might want to think about very small doses at first and or pusling this supp.
In some of the herbs & supps I have tried, I have found they can over stimulate my immune system & that was not a good thing for me. It seem it's been a careful balancing act for me.
hope you're feeling better soon Dana
none of the above is medical advise...just my 2 cents
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Greatcod
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posted
Might be an alergic reaction--dunno
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posted
Thanks for the replies. Good to know others have had similar experiences with turmeric. My guess is for me it had the effect of killing more bugs. While my reaction was similar to an allergic one, I don't think it was actually that because I've experienced similar from abx alone.
What's very interesting to me is how much the turmeric increased my voicebox swelling. That symptom has waxed and waned for many years, and I've puzzled about why, never isolating any particular cause or trigger. I've known steroids decrease the symptom, and now turmeric has become the first thing I've found that increases it.
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hardynaka
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posted
Dguy,
Itchy symptoms.... Did you have a rash or so? It could be allergy.
I took 3 full teaspoons a day of turmeric for 3 consecutive days plus high dose of Artemisinin together. Both kill babs. I had strong herxes. But now I think I have lower bab's symptoms. I'm not sure babs is gone for good though, probably not.
Turmeric does cause tummy ache for me, so I only could take it full stomach.
------------- VERMONT : it sounds like you have had a babesia herx. My bab's herxes are always strong in the lungs!!! First time infection, I got terrible air hunger with artemisinin, high dose, second time infection (now), I got pressure in my lungs.
You can see here, many people herx babs with air hunger.
Babs herxes are among the worst if not the worst of all, in both my experiences. I'm not sure if fungi/ candida or babesia cause the most awful herxes, but both are definitively tough, muuuuch tougher than borrelia.
I always add more clensers while killing babesia, or babs' herxes will kill me. Chlorella, bear garlic, MSM, chitosan many times a day.
No idea about Dguy's inflamatory symptoms going up. Could it be an allergic reaction?
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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D Bergy
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posted
Frankly, I have never heard any mention anywhere of an allergic reaction to Turmeric. And I have spent a lot of time researching it. Of course somebody can be allergic to just about anything so it certainly is possible. It can interact with blood thinners such as Heparin which makes me wonder if it has a possible effect with Babesia such as is theoretically possible with Heparin.
Other drug interactions are also possible.
Turmeric can also increase mucous production so a sinus effect is certainly possible. It is also an excellent antioxident.
Turmeric is antibacterial. It is possible it even kills Lyme. As far as I know there have been no tests with Turmeric and Bb. Just google Turmeric and antibacterial and you will see why this could very easily cause a herx.
This certainly will not help with joint pain if the antibacterial effect is greater than the anti inflammatory effect. My wife started taking Turmeric after her bacterial load was already reduced so the herx effect was minimal to none.
I did not consider the possibility that the Turmeric could actually kill Bb. It may just be killing some other bacteria also. But most bacterial kill off that I am aware of does not cause a herx reaction.
It would be nice to know what effect Turmeric does have, if any, on Lyme. It could be a very effective treatment or preventative on its own if it proved to be effective. Especially since it is a relatively safe supplement.
This is the most comprehensive link I have found concerning Turmeric.
This is a very interesting development, and potentially an important one. I would be interested if any one else has had any experiences such as those mentioned here.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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I took 3 full teaspoons a day of turmeric for 3 consecutive days plus high dose of Artemisinin together.
Selma, how much Artemisinin did you take? I have been doing reading on Arteminisin, and pulsing it definitely seems to make the most since if I am interpreting this thesis correctly. http://tinyurl.com/2edxz7 I would love it if one of you out there who knows more about biochemistry than I do would take a look at this, because I think what it is saying is that the bioavailability of arteminisin drops off preciptiously after the inital dose.
-------------------- Valerie *********************************** "A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 63 | From Jim Thorpe, PA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by D Bergy: Other drug interactions are also possible.
I'd agree with you and 5dana8 that this is a possibility. The NIH site says turmeric influences Cytochrome P450, an enzyme involved with the metabolism of lots of meds.
I am taking abx concurrently, so for example, turmeric may have influenced the amount of abx that are circulating in my system, or their duration. This is just speculation... I don't think anyone has completely studied all the P450 interactions.
For me, turmeric definitely has a big impact on my symptoms, more than any herb I've tried, and I've tried dozens.
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Areneli
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I will write it again. Turmeric has some antibacterial property and has helped some people with Lyme.
Yet, the dose has to be about 10000 mg per day and not some 300 mg.
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quote:Originally posted by Areneli: I will write it again. Turmeric has some antibacterial property and has helped some people with Lyme.
Yet, the dose has to be about 10000 mg per day and not some 300 mg.
Tumeric has effects for me at 300 mg, perhaps antibacterial, perhaps not, but definitely effects. Knowing the precise reason for those effects could be very helpful to lymies.
Given how much impact turmeric had on me at 300 mg, taking 10000 mg seems very dangerous. Maybe someone could slowly, carefully ramp up to that dose, but initially it would be very risky IMO.
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hardynaka
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posted
The biggest problem for me were tummy aches with turmeric. I dont' think I can take much of it for long. I was glad when I stopped it.
VALBETH, I'll send you a PM.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Areneli
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posted
Before you move to some strong conlusions try turmeric from your grocery store.
Because the likely culprit is some additive in your turmeric suplement.
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hardynaka
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posted
My turmeric was bought from an Indian shop.
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hardynaka
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My turmeric was bought from an Indian shop.
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richedie
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posted
Because I am under the care of a doctor, I do not take any other herbs or supplements other than what is recommended or prescribed. However, I do eat lots of food known to have anti-bacterial properties and immune enhancing or stimulating/modulating properties. I eat lots of raw garlic, ginger, onions, and raw/organic apple cider vinegar for example. I also make a mixture known as the immunity spice mix. o 6 parts turmeric o 3 parts ground cumin o 3 parts ground coriander o 6 parts ground fennel o 1 part powdered, dry ginger o 1 part ground black pepper o 1/4 part ground cinnamon
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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clairenotes
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posted
Be careful of some of these spices... they truly can be quite potent. I had a terrible reaction from curry once, which has turmeric, cumin, and cayenne, among a few others. Later I found some threads/discussions here on curry, which support the experience I had. I might liked to have explored it more by continuing with the spices, but other things were working for me at the time. I had only taken the spices because it was in a recipe.
It seems like it would be best to go very slow at first, i.e., start with smaller amounts to test reactions.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Turmeric is supposed to be very good for easing joint pain. Has anyone found this to be true?
-------------------- Just because it' s not nice doesn' t mean it' s not miraculous. --Terry Pratchett Posts: 121 | From Nazareth, PA | Registered: May 2008
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How much of that spice combo do you take daily -- hubby has taken everything on the list except the cumin at one time or another.
Fennel is good for digestion -- prevents gas.
Cinnamon is good for lowering fasting insulin -- helps the body use glucose better. Also is an antibacterial -- some think it can help with candida.
Black pepper potentiates all the spices -- is actually available as a patented supplement called Bioperine.
Ginger is another good anti-inflammatory and can help with nausea -- also improves bloodflow.
Hubby tried the coriander after reading that Selma suggested it for bart -- definitely had a herx reaction from one 500 mg capsule 2 days in a row.
As for the turmeric -- hubby recently started on a different brand of milk thistle -- Super Thisilyn from Nature's Way -- this is a combo product which includes 100 mg turmeric per capsule -- hubby takes 3 capsules daily. Have not really noticed a herx from this -- seemed to improve liver function based on bloodwork.
There are 2 or 3 journal articles that prove that turmeric (curcumin) can kill Babesia.
The article also discusses noni (morinda citrifolia), neem (azadirachta indica) and yarrow (achillea millefolium) as other options for Babesia. Not sure if the Indonesian ginger (zingiber aromaticum) is the same as regular ginger or not.
Bea Seibert
Note: Did a google search on the ginger and came up with a very interesting article
Formula includes Indonesian ginger, curcumin and honeybees -- obviously these spices also have some antiviral properties as well.
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Turmeric seems to help my knee pain at times. I like to cook with it and put it on popcorn and I know that popcorn is not on a yeast free diet.
Once I told someone that pineapple helps me with spleen stomach discomfort and some poster sent me a PM that it created yeast. Yes I know already!
I can not seem to stick to a yeast free diet 100% of the time and I am not the only poster on this forum with that problem. At least I do not eat ice cream or chocolate not that I would not like to.
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MariaA
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posted
I think there's some preliminary research on turmeric having antibacterial or antispirochetal properties. It's one of the reasons that's cited for why India didn't have an Alzheimers' problem historically- that turmeric (really, really common in Indian food) helped bodies manage spirochetal infections that are suspected as a trigger in Alzheimers'.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
It made my knees swell up MUCH. Did nothing to help. It was doing something, but each time it took ages for the swelling to go down. I can only endure so much punishment at my own hands, as this made it hard to walk.
I was quite disappointed. It didn't hurt/help anything else.
Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
why you should go with turmeric rather than a cucumin supplement.
WalllaceHealing Properties Overview Besides flavoring food, to purify the blood and remedy skin conditions is probably the most common use of Turmeric in Ayurveda. The principle organs that it treats are the skin, heart, liver and lungs. Sushruta recommended it for epilepsy and bleeding disorders. Charaka recommends it for skin diseases, to purify the bodymind, and to help the lungs expel Kapha. Activities of Turmeric include: alterative, analgesic, antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antitumor, anti-allergic, antioxidant, antiseptic, antispasmodic, appetizer, astringent, cardiovascular, carminative, cholagogue, digestive, diuretic, stimulant, and vulnerary. Therapeutic uses include: AIDS/HIV, anemia, cancer, diabetes, digestion, food poisoning, gallstones, indigestion, IBS, parasites, poor circulation, staph infections, and wounds. Turmeric helps regulate the female reproductive system and purifies the uterus and breastmilk, and in men it purifies and builds semen, which is counterintuitive for a pungent bitter. It reduces fevers, diarrhea, urinary disorders, insanity, poisoning, cough, and lactation problems in general. It is used to treat external ulcers that respond to nothing else. Turmeric decreases Kapha and so is used to remove mucus in the throat, watery discharges like leucorrhea, and any pus in the eyes, ears, or in wounds, etc. Names of Turmeric Every Ayurvedic herb typically has dozens of names that point to different aspects of the herb including its appearance, it's mythology, and it's healing ability. I feel that learning an herb's names is an essential way to study the herbs. The most common of the dozens of Sanskrit names for Turmeric is Haridra, which can be translated to mean `the yellow one.' Other Sanskrit names are Aushadhi, Gauri, and Kanchani. Gauri means `the one whose face is light and shining,' and Kanchani means the `Golden Goddess.' To me the most interesting name is Aushadhi, which usually simply means `herb.' However, it is used in the Vedas as a name of Turmeric. This makes me think they considered Turmeric to be thee herb, the most outstanding herb, the one herb above all others. The Hindi name is Haldi, which means `yellow,' and the Latin binomial is Curcuma longa, a member of the Ginger family, Zingiberaceae. A World of Turmeric ``I have found a plant that has all the qualities of Saffron, but it is a root.'' (Marco Polo on Turmeric, 1280 AD) As far as documented evidence, it is used daily in India for at least 6000 years as a medicine, beauty aid, cooking spice, and a dye, though I am sure its use goes back at least 30,000 years. Ostensibly it was used to worship the Sun during the Solar period of India, a time when Lord RamaChandra walked the Earth. Especially in South India, you can see people wearing a dried Turmeric rhizome bead the size of a large grape around their neck or arm. This is an ancient talisman tradition used to ward off evil and grant to the wearer healing and protection. Buddhist monks have used Turmeric as a dye for their robes for at least 2000 years. It was listed in an Assyrian herbal circa 600 BC and was mentioned by Dioscorides in the herbal that was thee Western herbal from the 1st to the 17th century. As mentioned above, Europe rediscovered it 700 years ago via Marco Polo and it is used in traditional Brazilian medicine as a potent anti-venom to neutralize the bleeding and lethal poison of Pit Vipers. For at least 1000 years Chinese Medicine has used Turmeric especially for the Spleen, Stomach, and Liver Meridians. They use it to stimulate and purify, and as an anti-biotic, anti-viral, and an analgesic. As such it is used to stimulate and strengthen the blood and decrease blood pressure, to clear abdominal pain and stagnation in men, women and children, and to remove stagnant Chi, the pain due to stagnant Chi, and excessive wind element. They consider it one of the better herbs for women because it stimulates the uterus and clears menstrual stagnation, dysmenorrhea and amenorrhea due to congested blood arising from a lack of heat or simply a deficiency. Personally, with the way that Turmeric can move the Chi, I use large therapeutic doses of Turmeric with Yin asanas as an herbal equivalent of an acupuncture session. Unani is the name of the ancient Persian system of medicine that has connected Ayurveda with the Greek Medicine for thousands of years. In visiting Unani Hakims from the Nile to the Narmada I have appreciated the way they keep their herbs cleaner than other herbalists. In Unani Turmeric is considered to be the safest herb of choice for all blood disorders since it purifies, stimulates, and builds blood. You have heard of the phrase "Hot to the 3rd degree." I expect that the etymology of this phrase is with the Unani Hakims. "To the nth degree" is how they describe the potency of an herb, which can have any given quality to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th degree. For Instance, Turmeric is considered both dry and hot to the 3rd degree. When the ancient Polynesians made their fantastic voyages in canoes across the Pacific Ocean to Hawaii they took with them the roots, cuttings, and seeds of about 25 of their most valuable plants. Known as Olena, meaning yellow, Turmeric was one of these plants. Their tradition is carried on today by the Kahuna of Hawaii, the `Knowers of the Leaf' or rhizomes as the case may be. As in other cultures, they use Olena as food, medicine, dye, and for ceremonial purification. The juice is used in earaches or to purify the sinuses via the nose. The root is also eaten to treat most pulmonary problems such as bronchitis or asthma. The Indian practice of applying the root paste to the face to cure any blemishes is popular in this tradition as well. For ceremonial purification prayers are chanted as the mixture of fresh Olena juice and sea water is sprinkled on people, places and objects to remove negativity and restore harmony. Turmeric's Molecular Constituents Turmeric has hundreds of molecular constituents, each with a variety of biological activities. For instance, there are at least 20 molecules that are anti-biotic, 14 that are known cancer preventatives, 12 that are anti-tumor, 12 are anti-inflammatory and there are at least 10 different anti-oxidants. The list goes on and on, in fact I counted 326 known biological activities of Turmeric in one particular database. Like Rose, Turmeric is a veritable pharmacy in its own right, with literally hundreds of molecules and activities on its `shelves.' This is also testimony to the use of whole herbs and not just isolated molecules. And speaking of molecules, by far the most researched in Turmeric are the three gold-colored alkaloidal Curcuminoids: Curcumin, Demethoxy-curcumin, and Bisdemethoxy-curcumin. Most of the research done is with a 95% Curcuminoid extract of Turmeric, though in its raw state Turmeric is only 3- 5% Curcuminoids. The rhizome is 70% carbohydrates, 7% protein, 4% minerals, and at least 4% essential oils. It also has vitamins, other alkaloids, and is about 1% resin. Turmeric in Aromatherapy The essential oil contains hundreds of different medicines but the main ones are Sesquiterpene alcohols and hydrocarbons. The essential oil taken internally or used externally it is anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, antiparasitic, and anthelmintic. As with all essential oils care must be taken when using it internally. Internal dose of the oil is 5 drops in a glass of water or tea with a teaspoon of honey stirred in. The Skin's Beautician Internally or externally, the most special prabhava of Turmeric is that it is skin food: it purifies and nourishes the blood and skin so that the glow of health is not attenuated by blemishes and impurities but rather amplified through clarity. The classic way to apply Turmeric topically is as an Ubtan where you mix Turmeric with chick-pea flour, sesame or almond oil, a little fresh cream and honey. Turmeric is a great dye and will make your clothes and skin yellowish for a few days so take care when you are applying it. I permanently dyed my Champion juicer yellow after juicing fresh Turmeric just once. It is known that Turmeric, and especially the Curcumins, inhibits skin cancer, likely due to decreasing the expression of proto-oncogenes. External application stops pain and swelling, heals wounds, and treats many skin diseases ranging from acne to leprosy. For instance, freckles, known as Jhanyin in Sanskrit, is treated by mixing a large spoonful of Turmeric with Banyan or Bodhi tree milk until it is a uniform paste. Seal this in a jar overnight and massage it onto your freckles a half-hour before your morning shower. Since Turmeric is bitter and antiinflammatory, it is excellent for hot skin diseases, especially wet eczema. Turmeric as First Aid When it comes to first-aid, what `Rescue Remedy' is to flower essences and `Arnica' is to Homeopathy, Turmeric is to herbalism as it serves as First-Aid in accidents ranging from cuts to concussions. For any trauma this rhizome is an herb of choice as it accelerates the healing of and minimizes the damage from any trauma. Once I was in a hospital in India with a dear friend, an old swami from the Giri lineage, waiting for our friend to be released. Though the friend had suffered some major wounds in an accident, we both felt that the iatrogenic blows were worse. The Swami was outraged and kept saying over and over: In trauma we always give in a tall glass of hot milk two spoons each of Haldi and Ghee. This takes care of everything
Posts: 654 | Registered: Oct 2003
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you wrote "I eat lots of raw garlic, ginger, onions, and raw/organic apple cider vinegar for example. I also make a mixture known as the immunity spice mix. o 6 parts turmeric o 3 parts ground cumin o 3 parts ground coriander o 6 parts ground fennel o 1 part powdered, dry ginger o 1 part ground black pepper o 1/4 part ground cinnamon"
this works. i cannot emphasize enough how eating these sorts of things (among many others) helped me get well. daily diet, every day, long term.
and i don't mean anti-yeast diet, detox diets, juicing or vegitarian diet - i mean food be they medicine diets.
ayurvedic / paleolithic combo, i've used.
my son's health declined over about a year's time, and it started with him going off good food (of course, not the only factor).
me, i am off my game foodwise lately because of all the mindblowing stress, and i am feeling it bigtime.
never underestimate the healing power in what you eat!
mo
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