posted
I have a phone appointment w/ my LLMD on Wed and I want to request a really strong sedative/sleep agent/anxiety drug.
Basically I'm herxing so badly I just want to be knocked out. I figure this is my best chance for relief. I'll wait out the storm in my dreams.
Any suggestions?
I'm particularily interested in something that will calm internal vibrations as they prevent me from sleeping the night through.
I've heard of Klonopin. Has anyone had good experiences with this?
I'm scared of drugs like Ambien because I'm already having night terrors, and I know this can be a side effect. (I don't remember being scared of ghosts like this since I was 6. How embarrassing. ).
I tried Tyenol PM but even in high doses, it's not cutting it.
I also don't want to stress my liver too much.
Thanks for any suggestions!
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
For KNOCKING you out- high dose Elavil- like 100-200 mg~!!!
You will be out out OUT- and it helps nerves-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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I pop in here on Lymenet occasionally to check things out...and saw your post.
First, since you don't know me, briefly I've had symptoms consistent with Lyme disease for the past 25 years, but wasn't diagnosed until 3 1/2 years ago. I'm quite certain that I was infected with B. garinii and Babesia. I also had metal poisening (mercury, lead and aluminum).
I consider myself 90% back to normal these days. In the process of removing my mercury fillings. It took me about 3 years to get here though. First year I was on abx, second year on diet, detox and lifestyle changes, third year on refining detoxification and diet.
A very significant aspect of my "cure" was on obtaining quality sleep and increasing my body temperature. I did everything in my power to address both the natural way.
Having said this, I did use Ambien and some blue pills for about 4 months during the first year of treatment with abx, but it just didn't help in the long run. I then gradually dropped the pills and started looking into natural ways of promoting sleep.
What I found was that the most important thing for me to do was to change the way that I eat. Have you have heard of metabolic typing? Most people have not. It's based on an ancient way of diagnosing peoples ailments and address these through diet.
There is no diet that is good for everybody, cause every single person needs a unique diet. Btw, that's why most diet plans don't work, cause they generalize which obviously doesn't work. Some people DO need fat, and lots of it. And some people do need carbs, and lots of it, though good carbs of course...never pizza, bread, rice, potatoes, etc.
Just look at the varied diets different groups of people in the world eat and you'll see how some eat a lot of fish, some a lot of beef, some a lot of rice, some a lot of vegetables, some a lot of fruits, etc. And they all live very healthy and productive lives. It has been noticed that when you put these people on a totally different diet that they develop all kinds of diseases, suffer from sleep deprivation, depression, etc.
So back to you. I recommend that you get yourself any book that deals with the topic of metabolic typing. There are several on the market. You can also find websites that deal with this topic. I won't give you any specific names, cause I want you to find out by yourself...in an objective fashion. But if you have trouble finding this info, please let me know and I'll give you several references.
What is supposed to happen once you start eating food according to your metabolic type is that all your troubles will magically go away over the next several weeks...including your Lyme disease and sleep problems.
Now, I'm not saying that this WILL happen, but it is likely to happen and for sure you will improve. If however you do have metal poisining or some other environmental/biotoxin related problems that your body is not entirely in control of (e.g., sick building syndrome), you should address these first or in parallel. Wrt the latter, read the book by Dr. Shoemaker "Desperation Medicine".
I can assure you of this, and you should be able to convince yourself about this from all the posts on this board...YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CURE YOURSELF WITH PILLS incl curing your sleep problem in the long run.
My symptoms did not go away with abx. Yes, they dimished a bit. But if you are chronically ill with Lyme disease like I was, and whatever else you have, pills won't help squat. When you're chronically ill with LD, the BB bacteria has found a nice little home in your body. BB has more than 100 genes. It's the most complex and clever pathogen known to man. Don't for one minute think that you can cure this with some abx pills. It adapts and hides and probably mutates too.
What you can do however is to make life for BB as miserable as possible through diet changes, which will propagate to every part of your body.
So aim to bring your body temp back up to normal, bring your blood pH back up to normal (slightly on the alkaline side), and get some sleep (go to an isolated totally dark room if necessary, drink sleepytime tea, have a small piece of fruit before sleep time, take a small vit-B6, meditate, do something calming before sleeptime, keep room temp below 70F, etc).
My 2c.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I am also in so much pain I wish I knew what to do.
Complicating this is that I'm a "poor metabolizer" of many drugs, including many pain medications.
Vicodin (hydrocodone) doesn't have to be metabolized to work, and it works the best for me. I do try to not take too much, because of the Tylenol in it.
When I had my wisdom teeth out, the oral surgeon used Demerol. That was wonderful oblivion. However, it's a serious drug and I doubt we could talk our doctors into prescribing it.
I've tried codeine, Darvocet, Neurontin, Elavil, Flexeril, Utram, Lyrica, and recently Mirapex without relief. Benadryl does knock a person out, but makes the next day foggy.
I've also tried homeopathic remedies, magnesium, melatonin, herbs and so on and so on.
Ambien works well usually, but some nights I can't sleep well even using it. I've not had any side effects from it unless I take it too late at night or early in the morning. Then it's hard to wake up the next day.
Ambien gets my vote for sleeping, but you can't take it all day long.
Since insomnia is a common symptom with Lyme Disease, doctors are familiar with using Ambien because we can't get well unless we can sleep.
Pain sucks, and that's all there is to it.
Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I have had a lot of trouble getting to sleep at night due to those internal vibrations....family member gave me a xanax to try one night and let's just say the next day I got a prescrip. from my doctor.
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i wish i could help you. i've told my doctor repeatedly, many times that i am getting 2-3 hours per night and i need help...
still, he won't give me anything -- says to drink wine!! DUH!!!
i hate to use over the counter and i can't tolerate that diphahydramine stuff (causes palpitations), so i'm out of luck.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
my experiences with klonipin have had me on the floor, not knowing which way was up or why my muscles turned to jello.
It could be due to inner ear stuff on my part, but each time I tried Klonipin, that's what happened.
However, I have a very good friend who takes it and does well, but it took months to get to a tolerable level. She also adds an antidepressant as klonipin depresses the central nervous system.
If you are herxing so badly, it could be due to the ability to elimiate the toxic overload -
so, I'd be concerned that any sedative would further stress the liver, causing even harsher herx.
So, if the doctor is quick to deny one Rx, ask why and then other choices. If the liver is the reason, maybe other suggestions for detoxing.
I use an herbal combination for pain and sleep that contains corydalis ( pain reliever) and two other very nice sedative herbs that also help with liver function. If you want the name /source of it PM me and I'll send that.
Effects of Corydalis yanhusuo and Angelicae dahuricae on cold pressor-induced pain in humans: a controlled trial.
Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research, Committee on Clinical Pharmacology, and Department of Anesthesia & Critical Care, Pritzker School of Medicine, University of Chicago, Illinois 60637, USA.
. . . In this controlled clinical trial, the authors evaluated the analgesic effects of 2 herbal medicines, Corydalis yanhusuo and Angelicae dahuricae.
. . . Dose-related analgesic effect was also observed. Results from this study suggest that C. yanhusuo and A. dahuricae may have a potential clinical value for treating mild to moderate pain.
PMID: 15496650 [PubMed - indexed
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Long before I had Lyme I always had trouble with insomnia due to issues with anxiety. I've tried every prescription sleeping med in the market and they all either A) Have no effect on me B) Gave me worse insomnia C) Sorta worked but had such bad side effects that they were not worth it. The only thing I found that works for me is the Klonopin, it doesn't knock me out, but it relaxes me enough so that I almost always sleep when I take it. I usually take .5mg, but dose up to 1.5 mg if I am particularly anxious. The only thing you need to watch out for is not take take it regularly because the withdrawal effects are very unpleasant (search online). I try to take it at most three times a week and this way you never have withdrawals. If you end up taking it a bit more for a while, say a week, just give it a longer length of time break before you start again and you should be fine.
Posts: 526 | From NJ | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Thank you all for the great suggestions. I plan to ask about Elavil and Klonopin (though ratings on the last one seem to be varied.)
My mom has been on Klonopin for over ten years-- she has a bad case of restless leg syndrome and it has been really helpful for her. (I stole a couple when she was out here last, and it definitely quieted my vibrations.)
I am on Vicodin right now-- it helps my pain IMMENSELY, but my LLMD does not prescribe enough so I try to only take it on bad days. (Which worked before every day became a bad day .)
Randibear-- I can't believe your doc said that to you. How obnoxious! Was that your LLMD??
To be honest, I've kind of lost my faith in natural/holistic medicine and detoxing. I was a loyal detoxer for a few months but I didn't notice anything. I do my probiotics and acupuncture, but that's it for now.
When I'm herxing like this, I just want the most powerful drugs out there-- I really just want to be KNOCKED OUT COLD for as long as possible.
Lyme is bad enough-- I never imagined herxing could be so awful. I just want someone to wake me when it's all over.
Please keep the suggestions coming!
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
My daughter takes a handful of meds: Geodon for anxiety and night terrors, klonipin, melatonin, and sometimes, half a Simply Sleep.
Her bedtime salad of pills! She is only 19, this isn't how she wanted to live her life.
But, with sleep, she can handle the day much better
Rozerem is a good drug, too. But, we found six milligrams of TwinLab Melatonin worked just as well.
posted
I tried everything under the sun for sleep, but initially into my therapy didn't sleep for a month and also had terrible anxiety.
I took .50 mg at night and .50 day.
It's been a year and I only take .50 mg at night and I cam cutting back on that to .25 mg to slowly work off it completely.
I am on the Cowden Protocol and the Amantilla and the Trace minerals knock me out.
The only problem with Klonopin is my LLMD said that it can interrupt your REM sleep. He prescribed some other drug to accompany it, can't recall the name, sorry, however my insurance didn't cover it, and I couldn't afford the cost. Since I noticed the amantilla helping me, decided to just try and get back to sleep naturally.
If you can't sleep and need it, you have to do what you have to do.
Also, my LLMD writes the prescription for 1 mg. 3X a day, so it lasts me for quite a long time since I cut them in half or quarters. It has a line on it for cutting.
Posts: 85 | From here | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I have had great success recently w/Prohealth's FibroSleep. It is all natural, and works really well. I had problems falling asleep and this really has helped without making me feel hungover the next morning. Funny thing is that I tried a few of the ingredients from this formula separately and they didn't work too well, but together, and with a few added extras, it seems to usually do the trick.
Posts: 418 | From NJ | Registered: Sep 2007
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robi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5547
posted
Klonopin got me on an airplane. I am waayyyyyyyyyy beyond a "nervous" flyer. I am really terrified. So I would try Klonopin.
Also, Tramadol has helped with internal vibrations at times but not always.
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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C) Sorta worked but had such bad side effects that they were not worth it. The only thing I found that works for me is the Klonopin, it doesn't knock me out, but it relaxes me enough so that I almost always sleep when I take it. I usually take .5mg, but dose up to 1.5 mg if I am particularly anxious. The only thing you need to watch out for is not take take it regularly because the withdrawal effects are very unpleasant (search online). I try to take it at most three times a week and this way you never have withdrawals. If you end up taking it a bit more for a while, say a week, just give it a longer length of time break before you start again and you should be fine.
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Was that your LLMD??
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