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DO ANY KNOW OF A SUCCESSFUL HERBAL REGIMEN FOR CHEMICALLY SENSITIVE LYME SUFFERERS THAT WORKS?
Posts: 1 | From new hampshire | Registered: Aug 2007
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I do Stephan Buhner's herb recommendations. BUT - I had alot of traditional TX prior to doing this, so load was reduced. But there are those who do only the herbal TX from the get go. I just always relapsed on abx just when I thought I was good to go...
Visit his website @ planetthrive.com...or order book from this site or local bookstore - Healing Lyme - Natual Healing & Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis and It's Coinfections.
There is another herbal TX plan called Marshall Protacol - many have had success w/...It seemed complicated to me, but just my opinion. Search both & decide for yourself what feels right for you! Hope this helps you get going on your research - others will pop in & post who have more experience w/ the herbs than I do.
Thus far I'm happy w/it since mid Aug - ramping slowly. I must say I'm shocked at how well my stomach handles it all - as that was a prob w/ Abx TX. Had more on my list of allergies to meds than what I could take.
Happy reading & good luck. Posts: 176 | From Tenn | Registered: Jul 2004
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Keebler
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my understanding of the Marsall Protocol is that it is NOT herbal. I was studying that and was put off because I was told I could not use supplements.
I find many herbals really helpful and they help treat stuff during winter that pops up. Needing to rotate or use accordingly, etc.
The MP is an alternative approach however. You can check out their web site. It uses Benicar (a blood pressure lowering drug) to help the immune system . . .and various low dose abx on a very specific regimen.
Testing of vitamin D levels prior to is vital and the main purpose of it as it's meant for those with high levels who have chronic infections / autoimmune symptoms. -- a protocol similar to MP is the Road Back Foundation www.roadback.org low dose abx w/o benicar and w/o the avoidance of Vit. D. in diet - I have talked to some who have done very well with various (things)
======= In additon to Buhner's which a lot of people seem to like is the work of Dr. Zhang. I'll use his name as he is an author.
This book on is something like "Treating Lyme Disease with Modern Chinese Medicine. "
Some of LLMDs incorporate his methods and formulas.
www.hepapro.com for book, etc. Book also through Amazon.com you can take a look
or www.sinomedresearch.org for his site and research. He's done extensive research and if you can't locate it at the sinomed site, call hepapro for help.
I've used his protocol on and off and he has alternatives within that as some don't like the smell of garlic. I've tried cheaper herbs from other places all over and come back to his protocol.
If I had really stuck with it, I may have been far better by now. It's not cheap, but it is fair, I believe, and far less expensive than some other routes.
I guess if you find one that offers some relief and has research to back it and clean products, give it time. This does take time.
Dr. Z is available for office visits in NYC - or contact him by phone.
I first saw him in a seminar years ago and was very impressed with the pts there - it was mainly a hepatitis seminar, but his pts were doing great - some came a long distance to see him.
[ 10. October 2007, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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Welcome Tickdock,
I hope someone with experience will come along and welcome you officially.
I see that you are an M.D. Coming from N.H., you've probably seen alot of lyme, but maybe not heard about ILADS.
if you become acquainted with the LLMDs through ILADS, some of them might be able to offer you information on the various protocols or techniques that have shown some success.
Also, a doctor in either Switzerland (or Germany?) seems to have had some success with a long-term diflucan treatment (and then maybe bicillin shots to follow). You can probably go to PubMed and search : lyme, diflucan and the study should pop right up.
In the UK, the use of allicin has been successful in actually curing some MSRA cases. they used it IV. you can go to the BBC.com and search for that article.
the ILADS conference is coming up in a couple weeks. maybe you can still get to that. It's in Boston this year. at their link
ohh - the last part of your question - for chemically sensitive lyme pts.
I sent you a PM with a lead.
[ 10. October 2007, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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JimBoB
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Hi: I have been using Stephen Harrod Buhner's "Healing Lyme" protocols for almost two years now.
I tried abx previous to this and relapsed. I got bit in 1999. I also took a month of Tetracycline and almost a month of Doxycycline when I first started the herbs. However the abx killed my stomach, so had to stop them.
I am on a maintenance regimen now. By 2005 I felt I was going to die, I felt so bad. Now, I go about my daily business, fairly active for a guy of 66; and have only minor symptoms, in comparison to where I was.
Cass A
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Member # 11134
posted
Hello, Tickdock!
I tried using the Buhner herbs, and got a very strong reaction (possibly a herx) that caused me to go unconscious for about an hour on two separate occasions and I ended up in the ER and hospitalized both times. Probably didn't use the proper gradient, although I felt I was doing better. However, my point is that herbs need to be treated with respect.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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In my experience the chemical sensitivities from Lyme disease are due to the bacteria camping out in the liver. When the bacteria is cleared out of the liver enough, the chemical sensitivities seem to go away.
I used essential oils to do this, but there are many antibacterial herbs that have traditionally also cleansed the liver. Clearing the liver makes it easier to tolerate other treatments better.
I also pointed an infrared heat lamp on my liver area to kill bacteria and reduce chemical sensitivities along with applying the essential oils to the area. I also did a lot of deep tissue type massage on the area of my lower rib cage.
Some natural supplements that might help (not necessarily herbs) are N-Acetyl Cysteine. It detoxes the liver, and in high daily doses, also seems to have an immune boosting and antibiotic effect.
In Chinese herbal medicine and the Buhner protocol, andrographis is a good antibacterial herb that is also liver protective. Coptis and garlic are part of the Zhang protocol and those are both good ones for Lyme and the liver also.
I have also taken a supplement called zeolite that seems to help carry the bacteria out of the body. It also clears the body of heavy metals and other toxins that could overload the liver.
In western herbalism, sarsaparilla was used for syphilis pretty regularly and it is also helpful for the liver.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
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klutzo
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I have tried the Zhang, Buhner, and Cowden herbal protocols. I got by far the best improvement from the Cowden Protocol.
Look up William Lee Cowden, M. D., or go to www.samento.com.ec and read his articles in their Lyme borreliosis library for more info.
We are all different, so you may have to experiment to find what helps you most.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
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We've had ONE guy locally do GREAT (not full remission but close!!) on cats claw (TOA free) & colostrum together.
Marshall Protocol is low-dose antibiotics.
I had SO MUCH HOPE for the Buhner protocol locally because the man knows herbs. BUT unfortunately- and I mean that- I prayed for them- on the Buhner protocol I don't know anyone locally who has done well.
On the other hand, on Cowden some people are HOLDING on, no remissions, no miracles, but holding, which DOES have value.
I am always careful to speak specifically from my experience because I believe there are MANY regional variations in these bugs and what tends to work for some in same area may not work for another area and vice versa!!! Perhaps in some areas Buhner may work beautifully- and Cowden not at all- that is part of the gigantic puzzle of TBDs-
So locally, this is what I see- and I would recommend you reaching out to YOUR local support group and seeing what works locally- because it can be backwards- finding out what you have somtimes- by treating for it- for example in the Santa CRuz Mountains there is more cardiac Lyme locally then elsewhere- it is not unusual for pepole to have cardiac comps- and Babesiosis-
But herbs can be as dangerous as anything to some people. Herbs are powerful.
Be careful- don't just add an herbal protocol on top of abx- cats claw- for example- has many and myriad interactions with other drugs-
Take care, Sincerely,
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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p.s. So basically there has NOT been great success locally for Lyme with herbs- HOWEVER with local Babesiosis it is a TOTALLY different story- local Babs is VERY responsive to Artemisia & its deriatives and has been totally put into remission by that alone in quite a few cases- so I always tell newbies to stick with abx for Lyme but go for herbs ALONG with meds for Babs- because that is what I see work best! And I want people to get better!!!!!!!
A few people tried the cats claw & colostrum after the one guy did well but on one has been able to duplicate his success or get near it- I wish they had- but nope- not so far-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Keebler
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Yes, artemesinin does seems to really help babesia. And that is so good because many patients can't afford the other drugs used for this. That is a very real consideration.
And, as other have said, when the bacteria/protozoa/virus is addressed, then the MCS does lessen.
I'm chemically sensivite (MCS), maybe because I deal with two types of porphyria (as some MCS pts do). It may be secondary as suggested in some articles dealing with Cpn (www.immunesupport.com ) - it's very complex.
care must be taken using any Rx or herbal supplements that use the cytochrome P-450 pathway. Most Rx info packets will indicate if a drug uses this pathway.
I scoured PubMed and found that Artemesinin does use it.
So, some MCS pts. may need extra support when taking it. In general all lyme pts. need support for the liver, however those with MSC may need a more specific type.
Specifically, there is research to support that Schizandra Berry helps the C P-450 pathway enzyme production - as does Milk Thistle, glutathione, and perhaps others mentioned previously such as NAC. Timing is important, though.
If the C P-450 pathyway enzymes are deficient then it poses problem. the Canadian Porphyria Foundation or the American P. Fd. would have more details, although the deal mostly with pharmaceuticals, the list of Rx is very helpful. Beta Carotene is also very helpful.
For those MCS patients who may have some type of porphyria, it is important to note that certain drugs can be fatal. My question is though, that of those fatalities, had their liver been supported or other detox measures have been taken, would the outcome have been different?
My doctor thought that many folks with chronic illness may have the deficiency in the C P-450 enzymes (most of which are not available as supplements, but there are supplements - and other detox methods - that can help the liver repair and increase the detox enzymes while not raising others).
Detox is essential for lyme treatment. Those who are more sensitive to chemicals (&/or may have porphyria) may need a more specific approach for detox and liver support as detox may be more difficult for them.
Hopefully, you'll find someone who knows about Tick Borne Infections, liver detox AND how to evalute MCS patients who may need help avoiding excess porphyrins during treatment.
posted
I only had luck with herbs after my bacterial load was already very low. On the other hand, using essential oils, which are concentrated volatile organic compounds from plants, helped me more than intravenous antibiotics did when I was at my most severe. My guess is that a lot of people who do well on just herbs have milder strains of the bacteria, or have a lower bacterial load.
Some of the supplements I had luck with as I got better include digestive enzymes, the NAC, celery seed extract which is traditionally used for gout, and high doses of niacin (the type that makes you flush). I also used a Chinese herb, pseudoginseng, to improve blood circulation, decrease pain, and reduce scar tissue formation.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
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Keebler
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Farah,
thanks for the good info in both your posts.
1. INFRARED HEAT LAMP the infrared heater really has me intrigued. Most can't afford an infrared sauna.
can you tell me what sort of heater you have - a link or other way to locate - many others here, too, might benefit from that info.
2. OILS. And, your method of the essential oils?
I know that many with MCS can't do lavender at all - but I've been able to enjoy most of them. Just never had a formal plan.
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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while not a herbal treatment, many have found success with use of a RIFE machine. The advantage to that with MCS is that it's not anything you have to put into your body.
However, detox methods and support are still necessary due to die-off of lyme, etc. whether through infrared sauna, massage or other supplemental or nutritional therapies.
Note: as Rife is not an FDA approved method, that's a little tricky. However, MANY have found it helpful. Doctors, I think, are not allowed to bring up the topic, though, so that again is tricky. Still, when asked I've had three doctors tell me of patients who are doing very well -
(edit to add: patients do this on their own. doctors do not deal with this, but may share what they hear back from patients' experiences when asked.)
posted
I've had good results with herbs, supplements and vitamin D. I've had Lyme disease for over 17 years (bull's eye rash in 1989 but had also arthritis as a child)and have not treated with antibiotics.
I use an energy tested herbal supplement that has been amazing - and brought me to the land of the living, but it was Vitamin D supplementation that made a huge difference (I work full time and am now back at the gym and biking to work 5-6 days a week). Other supplements that were very beneficial include:
I have used dozens of different types of supplements - adjusting as my symptoms wax and wane. All told it took me about 3 years of herbs and supplements and an extremely strict dieet (no sugar, refined carbs, booze, diet coke, alcohol, coffee etc) to get where I am today which is 80-90% of normal.
I am not ruling out abx because I believe (not based on anything but a hunch) that if your body has adequate stores of Vitamin D that abx are likely to be more effective.
CaliforniaLyme
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Gwenb-
Very good list and very good to hear-*)!*)! Grapefruit seed extract is one of the most promising herbal routes I think-!! And evening primrose oil is a traditional herbal treatment-
I believe that perhaps there WILL BE wonderful herbal protocols that WORK- personally I *thought* Buhner WOULD WORK for a bunch of locals who tried it and have been very let down that it didn't! I wish it had.
Two local guys who have been greatly helped by Artemisia are on the formula WITH grapefruit seed extract which has shown to be anti-Bb in vitro- and I don't think that is coincidence!!!
If people followed what you did, the Gwenb protocol, and it worked, I would tell everyone I knew to do it*)! Heck, if you forumlize it and that happens, that would be great. I just haven't seen it yet.
I am really truly, jazzed as heck that it worked for you!!! If you lived nearby I would ask you to come talk to the group because I am sure people would want to try your path-
I wonder what the Vitamin D connection is!!! Seems to work different ways in so many of us-
Sincerely,
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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This is my first post. I believe this is an important topic for anyone who may need to use herbs for various reasons.
My story: I've been reading Lymenet almost daily for over a year. In 2002 we lived in rural upstate New York, where I spent a lot of time gardening and in the woods . A year later we returned to the south and bought a house which unfortunately had hidden mold. At that point I became extremely sick and very chemically sensitive. I've sought help from various doctors and eye doctors, none of whom were able to give me much help, except for diagnosing diabetes Type II. A little over a year ago I requested a Western Blot test for Lyme which was sent to Labcorp and came back negative.
To help myself, I began doing intensive research and putting together my own regimen of diet and supplements.
Recently, after 5 1/2 years, I finally realized that I did have a tick on my scalp in New York. I scratched something off my scalp that was very small and translucent -- I thought at the time that it might be an oil plug from an impacted hair follicle. The reason I remembered it, however, was that it was somewhat bigger than the usual oil plug -- and I didn't have a swollen hair follicle. It seemed unusual. After reading the information here, I finally realized that it was a nymph deer tick and I am now seeking a definitive medical diagnosis.
My diet is 100% gluten-free and corn-free, and also very low in added sugars. I can maintain this only by doing all my own cooking, using very few processed foods.
As for herbs and supplements, I've put together this program myself based on intensive research and what works for me. Some things were too strong for me to start with, but as I've improved, I've been able to tolerate them (and the die-off) better. My chemical and mold intolerance started out very high but is slowly improving.
I take many upplements, but these are notable for MCS (keeping in mind that I'm very sensitive to tiny amounts of herbs and meds):
1. Grapefruit seed extract -- only tolerate 1 drop per day 2. Flaxseed oil -- as needed for candida and eye problems 3. Kudzu -- For chemical sensitivity and brain fog 4. Olive leaf (whole herb, not extract) -- couldn't tolerate at first 5. Japanese knotweed/resveratrol 6. Sarsaparilla -- tiny amounts 7. Quercetin -- for general environmental sensitivity 8. Ginkgo -- For eyes, heart, and brain as well as environmental sensitivity 9. Molybdenum -- for MCS; may be important if wheat is not in the diet 10. CoQ10 11. Coconut, coconut oil -- for candida 12. Colostrum
Note: Cat's claw and mangosteen seem to be effective but they leave me so exhausted at this point that I'm not currently using them.
Leanore
Posts: 1 | From downsouth | Registered: Oct 2007
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JimBoB
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California:
I am wondering WHY Buhner's Protocols did not work for your locals? Since it works for locals ALL OVER the country, including most parts of California.
I am wondering WHAT part of Buhner's Protocols they tried. I am guessing NOT all of them. I have used at least 12 of his recommended herbs at one time or another. Plus even a few other herbs he doesn't recommend.
You say Buhner's herbs did not work for those people, but you don't list ALL the herbs they took, at what doses, and WHAT problems they encountered.
You don't state IF they took Buhner's main support herbs either. DID they FAITHFULLY take Red Root tincture for liver and all the lymph system support? THIS is the best herb for lymph system cleansing, including the liver, that I know of. There are only a couple contraindications for it.
Respectfully, Jim ###
quote:Originally posted by CaliforniaLyme: Gwenb-
Very good list and very good to hear-*)!*)! Grapefruit seed extract is one of the most promising herbal routes I think-!! And evening primrose oil is a traditional herbal treatment-
I believe that perhaps there WILL BE wonderful herbal protocols that WORK- personally I *thought* Buhner WOULD WORK for a bunch of locals who tried it and have been very let down that it didn't! I wish it had.
Two local guys who have been greatly helped by Artemisia are on the formula WITH grapefruit seed extract which has shown to be anti-Bb in vitro- and I don't think that is coincidence!!!
If people followed what you did, the Gwenb protocol, and it worked, I would tell everyone I knew to do it*)! Heck, if you forumlize it and that happens, that would be great. I just haven't seen it yet.
I am really truly, jazzed as heck that it worked for you!!! If you lived nearby I would ask you to come talk to the group because I am sure people would want to try your path-
I wonder what the Vitamin D connection is!!! Seems to work different ways in so many of us-
quote:Originally posted by tickdock: DO ANY KNOW OF A SUCCESSFUL HERBAL REGIMEN FOR CHEMICALLY SENSITIVE LYME SUFFERERS THAT WORKS?
Repost:
posted 13 January, 2006 04:31 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sometime back Oxygenbabe asked me to post all of the herbs and supplements that helped bring my wife and I back to the good health we enjoy today.
In a nutshell, we suffered mostly from neuro- borreliosis, untreated for 1 1/2 years. After testing positive with IgeneX and Bowen, and then taking the obligatory 4 weeks of low dose doxy- cycline (200mg/day), we decided to try our best to treat the Lyme infection with herbs. This was in March of 2004. Through much trial and error and research, the group of herbs and supplements evolved to those known to combat spirochetes, other bacteria, yeast, fungus, and viruses, and then those that helped in eliminating toxins from the die-off of Lyme bacteria. You may notice a similarity between our selection of herbs and supplements and those of a recent book about Lyme healing by Stephen B. I haven't read it yet. Our picks predate his publication, some by more than a year. So our treatment for Lyme is entirely independent from his book, although we probably read many of the same articles. These are the herbs we felt most important in our recovery, in order of efficacy:
Cat's Claw : 'Samento is a special form of Cat's Claw that is TOA free. The removal of TOA alkaloids is probably not necessary, and adds to the cost of purchasing Cat's Claw.'
We continue to use the RainTree brand (includes TOA) and is the whole Peruvian Uncaria tomentosa provided by nature.
Seven Forest Formulas no. 6 & 18 to combat spirochetes. These include among other herbs, isatis leaf, hu-chang, andrographis, forsythia, gardenia, scute, phellodendron, and coptis. Taken 3 X 3/day of each formula for one month.
Olive Leaf extract Sarsaparilla or Smilax Teasel liquid extract Pau d'Arco Grape Seed Extract Garlic - Kyolic (103 and 105 formulas) Silver - ASAP (tested for safety) Oregano - liquid extract from the Mediterranean diluted with Olive oil NAC (Cysteine) Triphala from India Folic Acid
We hope that this information will help those suffering from Lyme disease and co- infections. Everything above is totally my opinion, as a nutritionist and as one who has been through it.
Blue Skies..........John
[ 13. January 2006, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: jwf ]
Posts: 134 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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luvs2ride
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Hi John,
Thank you for your excellent post.
I take it you and your wife are one of the longterm success stories using alternative methods.
Wonderful to hear!
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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JimBob, do you really make such an extraordinary claim that they work for people all over the country? How would you know that? You don't.
I say what is true and what I know.
And I've already said it on this thread.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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