Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
I personally do not believe that killing deer will "end" or "eliminate" Lyme disease (because of other hosts, modes of transmission, other ticks and TBD's)-
Plus the documented spirochetal survival for millions of years through much worse conditions has been shown.
But I am surprised that the Hartford Courant, who has unmercifully slammed Dr. Jones and other LLMD's, our advocates and chronic Lyme disease patients, published this article in their paper.
I have to question their motives.
In the article below, Lyme disease is being stated as the main reason for passage of a new bill that will fund research to determine if deer should be killed in CT to eliminate Lyme disease.
This reminds me of the aproach used when the Lyme vaccine was first being promoted.
Just prior to it's release the nay-sayers who had been involved in the vaccine suddenly declared Lyme was dangerous and had horrible end results (up from the "no big deal" attitude which was status quo for years), hence the need for everyone to buy their new vaccine.
Another concern is the Connecticut Department of Public Health, Yale University and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will possibly be acquiring or distributing more funding for "research" if the new legislative bill they have introduced passes.
Do we really want the CT Health Dept, Yale and IDSA in charge of Lyme research/funding with their deplorable track record?
If deer need to be killed in CT to thin the herds because the deer are a problem, just do it to comply with sound wildlife management practices, as has been done elsewhere.
But don't promote the idea that we can put an "end" to, or "eliminate" Lyme disease by killing deer and use that notion as the reason to get money to study killing deer (attempts at appeasing animal activists), because it just isn't so.
Deer don't bite people, ticks do.
Killing the deer to reduce their numbers will not "eliminate" or "end" Lyme disease.
And don't waste tax payers money by giving more of it to staunch chronic Lyme and LLMD opponents at the CT Health Dept and their IDSA partners who claim Lyme is or is not a big deal, whenever it suits their purposes...
And to those who have "blown" so much money already on developing unreliable tests, faulty studies and the infamous failed vaccine.
And have we forgotten some of those involved with Lyme in CT are under investigation for fraud, anti-trust, monopolization and exclusionary conduct related directly to their Lyme disease involvement?
IMO-
Killing deer and claiming it will "eliminate" Lyme disease in humans makes as much sense as killing chickens to reduce the high cholesterol problem.
Of course, that is only my opinion.
BTW- I am a hunter, an avid wildlife preservationist and have worked in wildlife management.
Here is the article... and below it are links to the bill.
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
I agree completely. Culling deer to keep populations down make sense. Deer on the highway really are a danger to people.
Killing deer to stop lyme disease is just stupid. Lyme carriers aren't limited to just deer. I'm not aware of any mammal who can't contract and carry lyme disease.
So, no deer? So what? Ticks will just move to the next mammal. And lets not forget the other transporters of lyme found also in mosquitos and horseflies.
Good luck killing all the rats and mice. Where the heck is that stinking Pied Piper?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Shoot I moved into an area of town that I thought had enough concrete and building and there wouldn't be much wildlife.
We bought a new patio home/condo in '01. We each have our landscaping that we can take care of, which I do, because I enjoy it. I let the association lawn care guys do the mowing, mulch laying etc.
We sold our lake home in '06. I thought my fear of being tick bite was over. I've had three known ticks embedded since '06. My grandson plays tee ball. My grandsons like to go to the park and they have a pool to enjoy. One of those two places got me tick bite again. Or I might of gotten one off my patio. Who knows?
I stick to the concrete when I can. Lyme disease and company is not going to be controlled through wildlife. Birds, chipmunks, rabbits are all known carriers of bacteria & virus.
I guess I could sit on my patio and shoot anything that comes by? My husband actually looked out the window at 5 am to see if it was raining? He saw two adult deer walking down the middle of our street.
He thought he was dreaming. Shook his head and then sure enough they were still there. They walked on up the street in the condo community and crossed over to the other street through a neighbors green area.
Deer are creatures of habit. I guarentee that was not their first stroll down our street or in our neighborhood.
I guess I better put me a couch on the patio so I can be confortable while hunting. lol
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Tincup,
Please hear me out. I know several of the people who are involved in this effort. Here is my short answer:
The "good guys" are involved in this. They have been working on it for years. The state of Connecticut needs this badly.
Here's the long answer:
Many of the members of the coalition are the heads of Lyme disease support groups and local government Lyme task forces throughout the state. The CT Agricultural Experiment Station is in this, too. CAES has been instrumental in some of the best statistics we have on deer, mice, ticks, and the transmission of Lyme. They have come to our seminars, to present and to listen. They have published extensively. (Pubmed has 147 hits on "Magnarelli LA.") They have counted our ticks, and been on the front lines.
If Yale wants to ride on their coattails, let 'em. CAES is not owned by Yale, though they have been able to work with Yale and with us through the years. If the CT Department of Health wants to own this, let 'em. Remember, CT is also home to Blumenthal. Not everyone in CT government is a bad guy.
Do I think Yale and U-Conn will mess this up? No! There are too many good guys involved in the actual implementation of this plan. And prevention is one of the few areas we can all agree on, most of the time.
It has been proven that eliminating deer in a controlled environment (where deer cannot commute in from elsewhere) eliminates Lyme. Yes, ticks love mice and other animals, but their preferred host for procreation is deer. And deer travel farther than mice, and can spread those nasty bugs around. If one town culls deer, it will not be enough. There has to be at least a statewide effort.
I now live in Maine. Monhegan Island, ME is one of the places where they eliminated deer (not mice) and eliminated Lyme. Believe it, those Mainers struggled with the decision to kill all deer on that island. It worked -- they still have mice, but they don't have Lyme.
I used to live in Ridgefield, CT. I got Lyme there, as did my son. So did Brooke Landau, the TV personality now in CA, remember her? In my town, one in 3 families had at least one member with it. I betcha that statistic is even higher now. The area is also overrun by deer, creating another type of danger on CT's roads. I haven't seen as many deer in 4 years of living in Maine as I had seen in one MONTH in CT.
Do I think culling deer will eliminate Lyme? Of course not. Will it lower the numbers? I believe it will, and frankly, if only a few dozen in my hometown are spared what my kid had to go through, to have lose most of his enjoyment of school and childhood to this stinking disease, it will be worth it.
Regards, Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Shaz,
It has been proven that eliminating deer in a controlled environment (where deer cannot commute in from elsewhere) eliminates Lyme.
How can that be proven? Lyme disease is so overlooked and underreported. Lyme tests are so inaccurate.
What measurement did they use?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
I have given this a lot of thought and have a solution:
Arm the hunters with special rifles that only fire paint-ball type ammunition that is in fact insecticide balls.
The balls of insectiside would include a dye that would wear off when the insecticide wore off. Deers who have been treated would be visibly marked with dye --
hunters would then go on to mark a deer that needed the insecticide, until finally all the deer were marked.
I am not kidding. This seems like such a simple solution to me. (but then, i am operating with half a brain)
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
IF there were 60 deer per square mile where I live I would definitely back the hunting of them. Where's the sin in that?
It won't "eliminate" Lyme, but it would certainly be a step in the right direction.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Oh, we are all for the hunting of deer.
I live between two national forests and traffic accidents caused by deer are a daily occurence. Everyone around here either hunts or is hunter friendly.
I just don't believe that eliminating deer will eliminate lyme disease.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
And Shaz,
Please don't think there is a smartaleck tone in my note to you. I believe you when you say it has been proven. I'm just really wanting to know how it was proven.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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A reminder that brown dog ticks carry erlichiosis, among other nasties.
Yes, perhaps culling deer will help -- but there are many diseases from many bugs. We need to be realistic, while (somehow) getting specific about the multifactorial aspects of illness.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
It's a good question, luvs, and I didn't think it was snarky. I just didn't have time to answer back this morning when I read it.
The question:
How can it be proven that eliminating deer in a controlled environment (where deer cannot commute in from elsewhere) eliminates Lyme? Lyme disease is so overlooked and underreported. Lyme tests are so inaccurate.
The answer:
In the case of Monhegan Island, they dragged for ticks and trapped the rats that live there, and counted the ticks. (I did misspeak in one aspect -- there are no mice on Monhegan, the smallest wild mammal they have are Norway rats!)
They tried different things on Monhegan, over the course of several years. They tried to get rid of the rats. They tried feeding corn laced with a tick-killing agent to the deer. Neither strategy worked. But when they killed off the deer, the ticks went away, and so did the numbers of new cases of Lyme among the year-round islanders.
Did they completely eliminate Lyme? Probably not -- migrating birds will probably drop off a few new bugs each season, but without deer, they don't reproduce. Could a deer fly or something else transmit Lyme? Perhaps, but we all agree that I. scapularis is the most frequent carrier.
They killed off the deer in 1996-99. By the fall of 2003, they found no nymphs on the rats, and almost no adults when they dragged for them. New Lyme cases went down from 13% of the population to none.
posted
There was a study conducted on an Island that showed that reducing the deer population virtually eliminated Lyme. They appear to be critical to the life cycle of the disease.
They are highly over-populated in most areas and the population can and should be reduced. This would help control the spread of Lyme and other diseases. I would also reduce the number of ticks carrying the disease. Other alternatives involve harsh chemicals that would do far more damage to all of us than the removal of some deer would.
Life would be great if we could fix things without ever causing harm but I am a realist and I would rather reduce the deer population than contaminate everything with chemicals trying to kill the ticks.
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