lymie_in_md
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posted
I'll keep you posted as to the groups progress and and how things can be leveraged. A lot factors come into play the size of the group and logistics of how and when people will get there turn with the unit. My feeling is first come first served as far as the group is concerned.
Building a group is a challenge, you have to get the word out. I'm sure 99% aren't even aware how this product may benefit them and others are on the fence. To get off the fence one way or the other is embracing the information available. Its going to take time and a little persistence. I'm hoping folks can see Dr. Woitzel's use of the laser cured 1,200 people of lyme and want to take advantage of his methods.
We'll say 10 people choose to participate we get the laser. Logistically the laser would only need per person 1 1/2 hours per week. And all we have to do is car pool the unit.
We'll say logistically we can accomodate 8 treatments per day given a daily schedule (given a lot of carpooling) 56 treatments per week. 8 treatments is about 6 hours and 4 hours of carpooling. We'll say a treatment duration is 8 weeks. So every two months another 24 people could be treated off a single unit.
I guess the idea is to form a group of 25 families as a beta test.
The main idea is to keep the unit busy and keep a good schedule.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
bump
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Wow, this sounds great. I wish I was well enough to join this group. I can barely leave the hosue to go to the doctors. I dont know what is going to help me get well? I dont know anything anymore.
I wish you guys luck. I live in Mass, so thats a ways away. Do you have many people in this group yet? Is this safe?
I am going to read GiGI's thread but I dot understand how this is CURING anything....I ahve learned not to take that word too serisouly lately.....Its been thrown at me A LOT.
I will start reading that thread today....
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
WOW ....I wish I can come there to.
I wish We can be able to ofer here in NorthEAST .I would see my LLMD next month and I would offer the information.
I think ( I am not sure that she uses ART as well) and she uses Muscle testing.
She has a machine for the increase of a NK cellers.And she works on the body as a WHOLE.
I just hope that she will be willing to look into it.
If you were a little closer I would have cheaped IN!
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
We should to putting more machines in this country so we may all benefit and we should work to do that. Along with other therapies known in germany but somehow not found here.
When we've proven one machine works in this country then more groups will form.
The only benefit I want is my health and that is all I will receive.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
I live in Maryland, but fortunately I don't need it since I have been able to get better with more traditional means via my LLMD.
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
Cobweb, hope you get not just better, but totally well -- that's the main thing. Good luck.
Bob, just thought I would kick this up. My invitation still stands just in case. Good luck to you too!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Cobweb : Why don't you take the information to your llmd. See if he would recommend you do both. Don't mention the treatment group though, just mention the process of using Professor F. A. Popps use of biophotons and then Dr. Woitzel's success through the bionic 880. See what he says.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
Chances are she already knows since LymeNet is one of the links on her website.
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Cobweb
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posted
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Cobweb, hope you get not just better, but totally well -- that's the main thing. Good luck.
Does this mean you don't believe in "Chronic Lyme" GIGI?
It would be great to get totally well from a chronic disease-then the IDSA would be right-there is no such thing as chronic lyme.
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Cobweb you really like to simplify a complex problem with a label. Yes chronic lyme exists. Lyme instigates the dysregulation of body functions which cause symptoms.
Lets say you killed all the lyme in your body with a course of antibiotics. Will the antibiotics fix those areas where lyme dysregulated the function? Our bodies may fix some of the dysregulation, but how much? I think Fritz Popp may have one of the answers if not the answer to re-regulating body functions.
I'm curious cobweb this discussion isn't about ABX. And, you obviously have an accusatory tone, so what's your agenda?
One last question Cobweb, are ABX in your opinion a method by itself to cure chronic lyme?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I was wondering if you have been in contact with anyone who has used the Bionic880?
I am interested, especially if I can get well with it.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
lymie in md: First, I am not against the photon and 880. I have always been open to others trying these things, and getting back to the group with an honest appraisal of experiences, both positive,neutral, and negative.
I have seen positive things actually happen with adjunctive therapies.
However, your statement above implies that the 880 is treating a post lyme syndrome, and not an infection cause, that is, the borrelia.
Yes chronic lyme exists. Lyme instigates the dysregulation of body functions which cause symptoms............Lets say you killed all the lyme in your body with a course of antibiotics. Will the antibiotics fix those areas where lyme dysregulated the function?
I believe most people are interested in it as an infection fighting agent.
Gigi has presented info supporting it's use as an infection fighting agent. Well, at least, the reports say the users felt normal again and do not get sick, i.e. have relapse.
I would guess in a more detailed study, one would find people who test negative (i.e. no response) to ART inquiry of borrelia, but still have symptoms of dysregulation, such as gland or organ dysfunction. Then do the 880.
And also use it with active infections as another group.
I also would inquire about additional therapies that might have been used by the European practitioners, since at times there can be synergistic qualities to adjunctive therapies.
By the way, how much do these things cost?
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
Hi Lymed in MD-sorry you feel my tone was accusatory. I can only speak from my own experience-that's all I wish to pass along.
I never mentioned antibiotics-I simply stated that I was treated by more traditional methods-which can and does include a lot more than antibiotics.
As for asking questions-isn't that how we get answers?
And you're right-I do like to simplify in order to clarify-especially for the newbies.
I say go for it, bro. if that's your thing.
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posted
This sounds very promising. We live further up the east coast but would be interested in your fact finding meetings.
Gigi, do you know if one were to get the full tx. in Germany if it would take 4-5 weeks? or is it completely individual?
Thank you, Gigi for researching all this!
Posts: 67 | From northeast | Registered: Feb 2006
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
L-I-M
I am very interested in this as well. I live in SW Virginia but I already travel to Fairfax to see my doctor. MD may not be that much further depending upon where you are located.
Would you mind IM me with your location (better still the location of the practioner who will be assisting with this treatment) and your phone #?
I may want to opt in on your group if I can. You are a whole lot closer than Germany.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Luv's you are close enough if your interested to join please PM me. I'm trying to keep it within 2 hours driving distance from laurel. And much of Virginia outside Washington is fine.
Thx cobweb for the clarification, and I hope for your complete remission. Hopefully we'll have some positive stories to tell.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Northstar, I think it is both active and post borrelia and the 880 handles both. I guess, I was thinking of myself and cobweb, we're almost well but just not there (80% of health). It could be we have lighter infections but some left over dysregulation.
My view of post lyme : You may still have some lyme, but it is not the main reason for the remaining symptoms. So it doesn't matter if it is an active infection or a lingering one.
The reason for remaining symptoms : the active infection cause organ dysregulation. Bacterial infections from other bacteria, parasites, or viruses. The following is a list of what the 880 treats, notice borreliosis is just one of many.
From the list above it does more then just takes care of the invection. It helps regulate many of the bodies functions.
From: Dr. Med. Ingo Woitzel, Pforzheim
"Since 4 years I work with Bionic 880. The priority of my treatments in my practice, was on Borreliosis. Until now I have treated with success about 108 Borreliosis patients. With bio-photon therapy the patients responded faster as opposed to the long span of treatment with antibiotics. ..."
It's now been 8 years and he's now helped 1200 to live normal lives.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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I am now VERY interested ...but does it work with ALL levels of illness, including being very ill?
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I have left 3 responses/questions....It seems No one wants to answer any of my questions...
Thank you
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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northstar
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Member # 7911
posted
Thank you lymie in md,
The interesting aspects are the anti-inflammatory claims, which can also be an (part) cause of neuralgia and arthritis symptoms.
The inflammatory aspect could be a result of low count spirochetes/blebs/cysts/need for further detox, etc., (my speculation).
And co-infections, which still are a mystery in this process. It certainly will be interesting the experiences of users, especially those with co-infections, which are considered by some to be a barrier to full recovery.
Cost?
(I ran across a practitioner who was using something called "The Vibe", which cost them $18,000.00 at the time. I think the website mentioned the word photons! Website was not too detailed, pages had been yanked, etc. Testimonials were kind of "different". It looked like something from the future!)
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
The cost of the device is 10k per unit. A group could reduce that cost a great deal if it were shared. There is no technical reason why that couldn't be the case. I believe 25 people in a group could treat this disease based on Dr. Woitzel's treatment plan within 8 weeks. Another 25 could be treated in the next 8 weeks and so on.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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northstar
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posted
Thanks l.i.m.: I did find the cost also; it was in the other thread on the first few pages. It also contained other information that was helpful, and may answer other posters' questions.
To get the link to the other thread, you have to scroll through this thread! I would help, but my eyeballs are rolling right now from trying to find it again.
N/
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Sorry GiGI but that Thread is VERY long,....it took me a while to not only read it but comprehend it. I had to keep going back and forth.
For people who have been very sick before, I am sure you understand what it is like to be sick and looking for answers.
I am also sure you know what it is like to have problems with reading and comprhending information. I am sure you also understand how scary and lonely it is.
If I was someone who was very ill before and new of things that could possibly help my fellow sufferers I WOULD without an problem.
I understand you have put a lot of research into this. I also understand that asking questions sometimes is like pulling teeth.
Thank you for all of your research and information. I do understand how much work you put into it. I will no longer ask questions about the Bionic 880. I will refer to that thread.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
We did something similiar L-I-M in our neighborhood for a snowblower-we all chipped in together to get one-and everyone benefited-except it didn't snow that year-and we haven't had much since!
Anyway for those who may be unable to chip in for this bionic (very catchy)880-you can read the Success Stories for free.
It is a thread compiled by Lou B in General Support. While you are there you can see if anyone has had experience with this thing before investing.
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sixgoofykids
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posted
I have a question .... is the Bionic 880 something we could do at home? Or do we need someone with the ability to muscle test to help us with it?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
Yes it is something you can do at home and do yourself. In a group the unit is either on the road or someone is on the road to get to it. We treating in houses.
The muscle testing is before the start of treatment and after treatment to see if there are still issues and more treatment is warranted. Once the nosode is selected you treat with it for the 8 weeks.
Hope this helps Six
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
So where do you get the muscle testing done? Does it have to be one particular kind of muscle testing? Which kinds would work?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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posted
We have NIHA in Washington DC with 3 ART practioners. And I know of one practioner in Baltimore. I guess a way to find out who the practioners are in Ohio is to send an email to nurse A. http://nurseandi.com/start.html
good luck, Bob S...
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
I will try to answer what I can after I have some breakfast. I am starving...........
GiGi
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Bugg
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posted
For what it's worth, I have a private party, who lives and practices in Germany, checking into this...He says lyme disease is a terrible problem there and is quite often in the media...I will let you know what, if anything, he unearths about this device and its practitioners...
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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sixgoofykids
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posted
Thanks Bob. I went to the website and the only practitioner near me died last week.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
quote:Originally posted by sixgoofykids: Thanks Bob. I went to the website and the only practitioner near me died last week.
sixgoofykids
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Cobweb:
quote:Originally posted by sixgoofykids: Thanks Bob. I went to the website and the only practitioner near me died last week.
How?
The website didn't say. He looked pretty old though.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Cobweb : Why don't you take the information to your llmd. See if he would recommend you do both. Don't mention the treatment group though, just mention the process of using Professor F. A. Popps use of biophotons and then Dr. Woitzel's success through the bionic 880. See what he says.
I have an appointment soon. I'll print this thread and see what she says about it.
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Cobweb your post about talking to your LLMD I extol. It tests the assumption this might work and you'd investigate further one way or another, great! But you haven't investigated anything yet. What is a newbie to think, brand something bogus and MLM without investigation.
To summarize there is great bit of investigation in this thread. Maybe you should reread it. Like this product was germinated from years of research by Fritz Popp. It has documentation from Dr. Woitzel of 1200 patients in remission using this product. It has a track record from other health practioner's in Germany with testimonials.
Bugg in another thread said he has a contact in Germany to investigate the claims. You know that is testing the validity of the product. We learn from that. We learn nothing from intuition, or smells, or sounds like MLM without substance.
If you do have some substance to your MLM claims for this product. Why don't you share it.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
Just reminded me a lot of HerbaLife products that a friend of mine from church sells-and that's without a doubt MLM.
She is a friend and will remain so-but I do not intend to buy any Herbalife from her. So my intuition comes from direct experience of how this works.
You've got my word on running this past my LLMD who links to this site.
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sixgoofykids
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posted
I don't see how it could possibly be MLM as no one here is trying to sell the product. No one is trying to even get a commission on it.
Many of us are open to trying something new, and any of us who are interested in this are doing our own research.
BTW, there are many good products that are marketed with MLM ..... even if you don't like their sales tactics.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
Cobweb you finally hit my funny bone. My mind is dancing with the obvious parallels between herbal supplements and state of the art lasers.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
State of the art lasers that aren't even manufactured or patented here in the US. DUH
But you're right , I deleted my post, because it is not up to me to protect the Newbie or the gullible-it is up to the moderators and administraters.
This boils down to nothing more than peddling a product. PERIOD
and you are helping to rope them in.
But hey-that's your business-not mine.
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sparkle7
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posted
Cold laser therapy or low level far infrared laser therapy is done in alot of places for pain & to help people stop smoking. There are a number of different lasers & LEDs available.
Veteranarian's also use it to heal wounds (sorry for my bad spelling) on horses & other animals.
It would sort of be like saying buying a dental drill is a MLM scam... I don't think so.
Many of these types of products (like Rife, micro-current devices, etc.) were surpressed back in the 1920's. The AMA told doctors that they would revoke their licenses if they developed these devices for healing.
The decision was to promote pharmaceuticals not energy medicine back then. So, much of the research & development of these techniques & devices was surpressed.
All the enthusiasm went into drugs & these became the mainstays of medical practice... Can you guess why??? Because large companies could get rich.
What's important is the nm length of the far infrared wavelengths. This device has a particular length (880 nm) & maybe this is why it works(?).
I'm not sure if the other devices have the same wavelengths or if there are possibly other technological considerations. This technique also combines homeopathy with the biophotonic therapy.
This isn't something most folks at home will be buying... It's more for doctors or practicioners to offer as a service to their patients.
How many drug company reps do you think the average doctor sees? How many vacations & perks do the doctors get offered to give drug prescriptions to patients?
If this therapy really works - the drug companies will go broke.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
Please not that the Bionic is not a laser. I will explain it on the other thread when I have time later today.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Can't wait to hear GiGi! I am reading every word you have said about this device and am really looking forward to hear how it works for your husband. My husband and I are seriously discussing purchasing one ourselves.
I just don't want you to think no one is reading with interest ..... I certainly am.
I have six healthy kids and a husband who have all been exposed to Lyme though me and through tick bites of their own. I'm thinking this sounds like a great way to keep them healthy. Right now I feel like they are just time bombs, like I was.
As expensive as Lyme treatment is, 10k to keep 7 people healthy is pretty cost effective .... and if it can get me well, that's a bonus.
Don't worry Ohioans, if I get it I won't be selfish with it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
To summarize it has 84 (LED) diodes at 880nm if you don't want to read on.
Technical Data of the equipment
Bionic with 880 cluster sample (applicator)
Frequency, power supply and duration are computer-controlled. Frequency, power supply and duration are computer-controlled. Parameter adjustment with user directions Adjustment parameters with user directions
Control Device: Control Device:
Dimensions: L 27 cm x W 17 cm x H 8 cm, height with placed radiation head 12,5 cm / Dimensions: L 27 cm x 17 cm x W H 8 cm, height with radiation head placed 12.5 cm /
14.17 x 6.73 x 3.35 inches, height with placed radiation head 4.92 inches 14.17 x 6.73 x 3.35 inches, height with radiation head placed 4.92 inches
approx. approx. 3.000 mW on the surface of the treated fabric and/or. 3,000 mW on the surface of the treated fabric and / or. approx. approx. 150 mW/cm2 150 mW/cm2
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks Bob! I'm going to have to digest this when my head stops hurting.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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