-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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I have taken HH with coptis (another herb) or allicin and like how well I feel with it added. BTW, it helps inner ear stuff. I don't know much more about it, though.
posted
In my experience, Houttuynia and Rifampin have a similar action, physically. You might want to add one of the lyme herbs as well, to make it more broad spectrum (andrographis, cat's claw, etc.). I think the Houttuynia and Rifampin work synergistically though.
Posts: 929 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Oct 2007
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
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My LLMD told me that Cumanda would count as another abx with Rifampin but I never believed it so I kept up with the Zithro.
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alv, i tried to send this in a message, but your mail box is full:
how have you been doing on that rifampin/levaquin/zith combo?
i'm fighting bartonella and maybe still lyme too with rifampin 600mg + 400mg minocycline daily. i haven't noticed it helping yet though. it's been 3 weeks on this combo. i've done two months cipro high dosage with no improvement, so i'm curious about trying levaquin. but i'm also quite weary as i've heard of too many tendon ruptures.
Posts: 98 | From WI | Registered: Feb 2008
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Alv,
I believe you can add the HH to your abx regimen. My LLMD ws going to put me on the HH capsules along with Rifampin and Zithro at one point but I was herxing so much that I blew it off.
I don't know about the Levaquin, though...
It may be overkill, although I know you need all the ammunition you can get!!
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
I am curious as to its ability to help with inner ear problems.
I have pain inside one ear, from either zith or mino as far as i can tell -- had to go off them both temporarily.
Would HH help with this?
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Wow thanks CLARISA !
I ordered them and you do not need a persctiption.
Beilive it or not I am on this dosage.I am dealing well on levaquin -not herxing crazy.Exept I was emotional and cried the first day I took it ( restarted) and I flared for a 5 hrs -slept right away.Than I added the rest.Was on and off pain -but nothing like before -
You all know that I have been treating bart for more than a year.Today I felt pretty normal.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Cottonbrain,
if you are having ear trouble while in mino, I urge you to consider finding an alternate medicine. Mino can cause some pretty harsh vestibular problem for some people. Some reasearchers have it on the ototoxic list. Some don't.
Zithromax also can cause certain individuals ear trouble.
(for mino / zith ) Some patients seem to do okay, but others have much trouble with inner/middle ear issues they have to stop it.
B6 may help with mino . - see the article at the thread on Tinnitus.
I have taken HH and found it to be very supportive. Allicin, though, clears up my ears better than anything.
This link has some specific information on Minocin that may help.
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links -
Also, a timed-release bath of minocycline has recently been recalled. There is a thread about that. A search with "recall" within the past 3 weeks should bring that up.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2006 Mar 8;104(1-2):245-9. Epub 2005 Oct 5.
Anti-inflammatory effect of Houttuynia cordata injection. .
Lu HM, Liang YZ, Yi LZ, Wu XJ.
Research Center for Modernization of Chinese Herbal Medicine, College of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering, Central South University, Changsha 410083, PR China.
Houttuynia cordata (Saururaceae) injection (HCI) is a traditional Chinese medicine used in China. It was chosen as one of eight types of traditional Chinese medicine that play a unique role in severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) owing to the effect of curbing inflammation.
In order to validate this plausible anti-inflammatory property, the chemical composition of HCI has been analysed by GC/MS, 22 components were identified, and the inflammation induced by carrageenan in the rat pleurisy model and by xylene in the mice ear edema model was adopted to study the anti-inflammatory activity of HCI.
Injection of carrageenan into the pleural cavity elicited an acute inflammatory response characterized by protein rich fluid accumulation and leukocyte infiltration in the pleural cavity.
The peak inflammatory response was obtained at 24 h when the fluid volume, protein concentration, C-reactive protein and cell infiltration were maximums.
The results showed that these parameters were attenuated by HCI at any dose and touched bottom at dose of 0.54 ml/100 g, although less strong than dexamethasone.
This drug was also effective in inhibiting xylene induced ear edema, and the percentage of inhibition came to 50% at dose of 80 microl/20 g. The results clearly indicate that HCI have anti-inflammatory activity.
cottonbrain
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13769
posted
hey keeb, thanks so much for the info and links. I checked them out but will re-do tomorrow when my brain is working better.
I'm a bit ticked off (hyuk hyuk) that my LLMD doesnt seem aware of the mino risks.
Not saying for sure that mino is my problem, but it sure sounds like it could be.
I think I'll order some curcumin, as hyperacusis is another issue i've always had, and it has gotten worse lately.
keep us posted on what else you find out, if you please. thx!
and if anybody else has tried curcumin or knows of other effective sups for hyperacusis, holler. well, maybe on another thread ...sorry to have hijacked this one...many apologies
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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sorry to sidetrack so much but - in reply to Cottonbrain & others who may wonder - this might help explain why doctors don't have one general list to check for ear stuff.
Researchers seem to differ on mino.
It is confusing that a drug can be on one ototoxic or vestibulur toxic list but not on another. I usually check four lists/books and try to get the most current ones.
The way ototoxic reactions are reported is not like you'd think.
If a patient has a problem and reports it it might be recorded in a record somewhere as either vertigo, dizziness, tinnitus, hyperacusis, or hearing loss.
Only if ear hair cells are destroyed might the drug be listed as ototoxic but some researchers connect any troublesome audiological symptoms as degrees of ototoxicity - some reversible, some not.
The degree or length of time these continue are not recorded. That would help. Also, blood levels are not usually helpful in reporting of ear reactions.
I also have to wonder if some patients are, for some reason, more affected than others. And, herx can be part of it.
The B6 / mino article ( http://tinyurl.com/3xpvck ) is from Germany. It might not have appeared in American medical journals.
Also, mino is being tested in some studies to prevent hearing loss with the inner ear injections of a very ototoxic drug, gentamicin, in a study with mice. So, that is very curious. But they add yet a third substance and that may matter. PubMed, in general, does not have a lot of abstracts with ototoxic drugs that appear on lists elsewhere.
Ms. Suss points out that the Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) did not list ototoxic drugs until the 1989 and later editions.
She refers to a separate document, Drug Interactions and Side Effects Index, which is keyed to the PDR.
She then points out that the Index is incomplete: several problem drugs are not listed there.
======================
I'm not a researcher or an expert, just trying to make sense of what I've read. Hope it's not overwhelming. Wish it were clearer. And I wish I could be more concise.
The bottom line that one my otologists told me to remember is that any drug that trigger tinnitus, vertigo or hyperacusis can be ototoxic for ME. He said to stop immediately so the chance to reverse that is better. (Still, many lyme patients report certain abx triggering tinnitus that clears once the lyme clears.)
Getting back to the question of the thread: From what I've experienced, houttuynia extract seemed to help settle down inflammation - my eyes are less sensitive to light and my ears/brain seem less sensitive, too. I've always coupled it with an antimicrobial agent, though.
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