posted
This thread is the epitome of why getting Lyme is so bad....no one believes it.
Let alone cut you any slack for being ill.
This perpetuates the impending doom feeling and probably increases suicidal tendencies for those suffering.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Since you have experience with actually performing western blots, do you feel that they have some importance in showing that someone has been exposed to borrelia?
I added my WB to my signature, what else could have caused my test to show so many bands?? Especially the #31 ++++??**never had the vaccine**
This is just something no doctor can explain to me. They just want to repeat themselves over and over...that I can't possibly have lyme disease.
WHAT other explanation is there??? Some tried to say that IgeneX isn't reliable, that they have "ties" to LLMD's and have an "interest" in showing positive tests....Only that one doesn't apply to me either because my GP (who doesn't even believe in lyme) signed for my test.
I have reached that point that I don't care what ANYONE else says because I have seen such an improvement with antibiotics.
I guess I am just curious why this is the ONLY disease that you can test positive for and doctors are still telling you that you don't have it.
Is the western blot for lyme so much worse than a western blot for something else??
posted
I received my bulls eye rash and horrific symptoms in the early 90's but was kind of sickly as a child.
Both my parents chain smoked. I had many strep throats and was given lots of antibiotics as a child.. I had such a bad case of mono in high school I was almost hospitalized.
When I was about 8 years old I had spider veins. I also did have at least one attached tick then as well. Spider veins can be a sign of bart and the same spider veins cleared while I was on Biaxin in 2007.
I might have easily had bart and lyme as a child but my bite in the early 90's was the one that made me very ill and started my down fall. I was also bitten again in 2006 after just making an appointment to see a LLMD.
I do feel tick bites and not just low levels of D did me in. I think other things have contributed as well.
I never had any real anxiety until my bite in the early 90's and then all hell broke loose. Maybe I received a very bad strain of bart from that bite?
Hard to say which came first the Lyme or the bart or did I get them both at the same time.
Looking back on it I think my father died from complications from Lyme disease and he never was diagnosed.
I think we lived in an area where there were a lot of ticks and we went hiking often camped and gardened and owned a dog that would run around the hills and return home with attached ticks.
I personally believe there is something to the stories about Plum Island. Maybe the strains of disease are worse then now then when I was a child. I did read where one person thought in 2006 that Lyme disease strains became even worse then before. I did get a bite that year and found the adult tick crawling on my leg and I had red welts all over.
I do know they had infectious disease doctors working on Plum Island they were up to something. One of those doctors is now retired and plays poker at the Bellagio. He told my friend he is surprise I am still alive after going for so many years undiagnosed.
He also told her I should work on treating fungus and viruses as well. He worked at Plum Island and seemed to know more about the disease then some other IDSA ducks.
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posted
The western blot separates proteins by size. This is measured by the distance traveled down a porous gel along side of proteins of known size (Markers.) for comparison. The large ones don't travel very far over time w/ the aid of an electric current. The small, short ones travel faster and therefore farther, ending up nearer to the bottom of the gel.
The gel looks like a small window pane, and samples of unwound protein are loaded into wells at the top of the gel. They are unwound so that shape is not a factor in how far they (proteins.) migrate. The proteins loaded are markers of known size length, and proteins derived from the body.
So when stage 1 is complete, you have a rectangular, square window pane of gel with various horizontal bands of varying intensity. The darker the band the more protein is there. So at this point all the bands in the gel represent proteins from the body. Including antibodies.
Then known pieces of Bb (Along with buffers, and an enzyme tag like horseradish peroxidase or fluorescent molecule.)are made into a bath to incubate/soak the gel with the Body's proteins (Many of them antibodies.)impregnated in it.
If you have antibodies against band 41, the appropriate part of the gel will have binding of teh sample of Bb to that spot. It will appear darker when you have a larger titer of Ab's of that type.
The gel is then electroblotted onto a thin film of nitrocellulose.
So the finished product will be paper-like with bands of various intensities on it. Each band can be identified by being measured for size and quantitated by the intensity of the band.
Cross-reactivity is when an antibody binds to a band where it doesn't really belong. If it doesn't belong there...then the binding isn't very strong and can be mostly washed away in the rinse bath.
Ab-antigen reactivity is very specific. Especially for secondary and tertiary Ab's, which are usually the one's that bind.
Therefore, if you get an IND or a (+) there is a small chance that it is cross reactivity. IND much more so than (+).
However, those of you w/ (++) or greater on some important bands....this is almost certainly TRUE specificity, and a real Ab revealing the presence of a real antigenic determinant.
Also, if you have had more than one test...and the same bands show up (+)....they ARE DEFINITELY REAL.
Ab-Ag reactions are by definition VERY specific. So Cross reactivity is NOT rtesponsible for all our positive test results.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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your band 31 (+++++) is certainly real. However, it could be caused by EBV.
But you also have other positive bands right?
Its true that many bacteria have identical structures which would give cross reaction. But thats why the bands chosen for the Lyme test are structures unique to Bb. For example, band 41 is where the flagella is on Bb. Not very many other bacteria have this. One taht does is syphilis.
Thats why the test requires that you be positive for more than just one or two antigenic determinants.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
One (+) band does not give you Lyme..but it can.
The others may have all been covered/hidden from your immune system.
This test NOT very definitive.
Thats why many have it done twice or more.
If you have 3 or more positive unique bands(IND's- single +)...I would say the chances of NOT having Lyme would be VERY low...maybe 10%?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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For your test to be a mistake would be like lightning striking twice in the same place. Worse even. Unless they used the wrong person's blood?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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I have been bedridden for the last 18 months of my life... I only found out I had lyme after 14 months of being very ill after getting sick suddenly with the birth of my daughter.
I was dx'd with lyme in May of 2008 with that WB.
I hope it wans't a false DX because I am so ill I cannot even take care of myself or my children I suffer with over 50 symptoms every day for over a year... Very very sick indeed.
I am confused now.. do I have lyme or not??
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I think what we're looking for is a reduction in positives from our IgM, like unexpectedills has above. Even tho still sick.
IgM is supposed to represent Ab's that your body is currently producing.
So, if you're cured, your IgM should be totally clear.
IgG is produced by "memory" cells. They are supposed to last "forever", but tend to fade over time.
Like chicken pox...you get memory cells which can produce advanced IgG Ab's -against Chicken pox if stimulated. However, some people have gotten it twice. Rare, but happens.
But the whole mechanism where Bb hides under a blanket of your own body's dead cells' membranes interferes with what Ab's you make against Bb. This fact really complicates matters and makes things uncertain. Like unexpectedillls IgM results....should be close to being better.???
There are lots of possible, obscure reasons for these exceptions.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Can you post your 1st test results next to your 2nd test results?
Did your IgG or IgM change more the second time?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I was treated for babs but not retested for it since treatment and I feel I still have bart yet never tested positive for it on 3 different tests including a Fry blood smear.
I did do zith with Mepron then Malarone and Biaxin with Amoxy. Then Tinda-snacks. Lately I have gone herbal and am not on any abx.
Yes it did change but I received another probable tick bite after my first test. I will post my first test next to my second now.
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One weird symptom from bart that tipped me off was the onset of offensive smells.
I started noticing smells that I didn't notice before. Many of tehm being foul.
I thought it was a sign I was getting better. But I'm not even close?
Thats brings up another thought. maybe you don't feel better and better the closer you get to a cure? I know the first month of tx was the worst, but the rest may be a rollercoaster ride?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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don't be confused. your IgG was positive...so you definitely have Lyme.
Your IgM results don't over-ride that.
It probably means that your immune system sucks now....damaged, suppressed or something. Therefore it can't make NEW Ab's from IgM producing cells.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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you may be sicker now due to the damage to your immune system.
So now your body is MORE reliant on abx. than ever.
So reliant that it reduces its new IgM ab's.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I am not the best typist and it took me along time to edit and add my other test yet after I hit the edit button it did not show up so I will try again in a few minutes.
I for sure have bart in my opinion.
whoops my edit did show up after all I must have been looking at unexpected's results not mine
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-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
If we stick to our protocols...we'll all get better!
just cuz your IgM isn't up to snuff doesn't mean it's completely gone either. Just operating at a lower level. Maybe due to the large amounts of Abx we all use?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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I think you got LESS IgG positives on your 2nd test?
Then you got MORE positives on your 2nd IgM?
If this is so, it makes some sense to me.
I mentioned before somewhere that permanent IgG Ab's are not really permanent. They tend to fade away over time due to lack of stimulation. This is indicative that your treatment may be killing off the bacteria w/o the aid of IgG memory.
And your IgM showing MORE positives could be because the bacteria are getting weaker...losing their ability to hide under a blanket of your own dead cells.
I would take it as progress.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Thanks James!
I do get less killer headaches around the eyes but I now have more sinus issues which could of course be fungus not bart??? Hard to say. I think I still have a long way to go but I am not going to do more abx if I can help it. I do think I still have bart.
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posted
A cured patient should only show positives (Save cross reactivity.) on their IgG.
Thats why unexpected's test results were so perplexing to me at least.
However, maybe unexpected really is almost getting better? Maybe its some sort of aggressive way for the bacteria to try to hang on b/c they sense their numbers dwindling. Maybe they are all hiding, encysted, intracellular....That would explain the IgM results. But maybe they are still in high gear (Survival mode.) metabolically. Producing lots of proteins in an attempt to grow...but cant...so you feel sick from the increase in bacterial proteins?
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
My second test had more IGG positives then the first test
and less positive bands then the first test on the IGM but more +++ pluses.
I am feeling worse lately myself then I was say a year ago but I think I have things like possible EBV and candida adding to my toxic soup.
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23-25 IND Both 23-25 tests were IND? 30 + Both 30's were +? 31 IND this means both 31's were IND? 34 ++ 34 IND 39 IND 39 IND 41 +++ 41 ++ 58 + Both tests for 58 were +? 66 + 66 + 83-93 IND both 83-93 were IND?
IGM
23-25 +++ 25 + 30 - 30 + 31 IND 39 IND 39 IND 41 IND 41 IND 45 - 45 + 66 - 66 + 83-89 +
This is more +'s on the right (2nd) test? Except for the intensity on the 23-25 band?
This is that same mechanism that may be occuring to unexpected also. Unexpected's IgM went up also.
The ability for Bb hide from immunity is a specific mechanism that it may lose due to treatment. Therefore MORE epitopes show up b/c there is more surface area of Bb for your immune cells to "see".
May mean that there's a longer way to go...but at least your immune system is starting to "see" more of the Bb.
Maybe most of our IgM's initially increase. Then decreases as Bb numbers dwindle and go into hiding. However this may not guarantee that you actually FEEL better.
Thank YOu SO much for sharing this information!
Looking at enough WB's before and after treatment is VERY interesting to me. What type of treatment and how long is important too.
Coming up w/ these ideas has helped me thru another crappy night. Gives me something to do!
I'd love to see more of these wouldn't you?
We may be able to figure something out if we look at enough of them.
Thanks again.
Posts: 269 | From Valencia, CA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Thanks James. My second test was the one on the Left and my first test the one on the right which is a bit confusing.
I bet if you asked more people would posts their tests for you to look at. I am sure many people have been tested multiple times. Some LLMDs like to test often or at least I know one who does.
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posted
Or perhaps unexpected's real problem now is vitamin D deficiency, as I said in my first post on this thread.
Since vitamin D is necessary for complete cellular differentiation, including white blood cell differentiation, vitamin D deficiency at the time of a tick bite would cause a hindrance to the bitten individual's immune response and the normal response to the infection would be muted, allowing the infection to progress to a point that would make treatment difficult.
Unexpected said in her first post on this thread that her symptoms began in mid pregnancy, a time when the placenta is pulling the mothers vitamin D in to convert it to 1,25 dihydroxy D to give to the fetus, important for cellular differentiation, essential in a developing fetus. She (unexpected) would be at risk of vitamin D deficiency at that time.
You can throw all the antibiotics you want at Bb, if you are low in Vitamin D or if there is a problem in your vitamin D metabolism, your system will not be able repond in a healthy manner. You might feel different depending on how the wheels of detoxification spin in response to the antibiotic, but the underlying deficiency is still there, and the body will not be able to respond as it should when it should to the next threat.
Not everyone who gets a tick bite comes down with symptoms right away, maybe the variable is vitamin D status. Those with adequate levels and an intact vitamin D endocrine cycle will remain well, others will not. Toxic load (heavy metals,food preservatives, cosmetics and perfume) contribute to this and may muddy the waters. I have a friend that was feeling cruddy and despite taking vitamin D, feeling no better. Her level remained unchanged. When she stopped using an aluminum containing anti-perspirant, she began feeling dramatically better in a very short time...
Not only that, but Vit.D is necessary for normal calcium and muscle metabolism, when someone says they are bedridden without having sustained a demonstrable lesion in the nervous or musculoskeletal system, vitamin D status is the first question to be answered.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
DR L-- I go to a very well known LLMD in NY state. I think if he thought my over 50 symptoms were due to LOW Vit D, he would not be treating me aggresively for lyme and co-infections.
I'm sorry but I know a lot of people with low vit D who are not this sick... You have no idea what I have been through in the past 18 months of my life. To sit there and say my horrible illness that has taken my abilty to be a mom to my children and a wife was because of a simple thing as VIT D defiency... well that is wrong.
Don't you think I have been through the ringer with testing, going from doctor to doctor to figure out why I was so ill all of a sudden... I supplement with VIT D and eat foods in Vit D.... I do not think this is THE reason for my illness... Sorry Doc!
I think it is a little more complex than a Vit Defiency. Quite frankly I feel like you are minimizing the extent of my suffering by suggesting I just take some Vit D and ALL will be well. Geez I should have done that 2 years ago then.
Yes My VIT D is a low... Who on this board DOESN'T have a low level of VIT D?? If you read the Marshall Protocol website you wil see why we ALL have low VIT D. YES I did the MP.. It was a miserable failure... thats another story all together.
I dont believe low Vit D is the CAUSE of illness, I think it is the Damage being down by the infection that LOWERS the VIT D. In that I do believe the MP... not with everything else.
BTW... My VIT D results ... 25D=15, 1,25D=19 (before supplementing and adding D foods back into diet)
They will be rechecking my d levels soon.
So Dr L... Are you saying that I DONT have lyme?? I want to know what you are really trying to say to me..... If you don't think I do just spit it out and say so.
Sorry to be so harsh.. but I am sick and tired...confused and at the end of my rope.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I am not being dismissive at all, I am sorry you have suffered as you have, but I will wager that your vitamin D level will have barely moved by the time you get your next results. You may have Lyme, but I feel that that is only a small part of the picture, and when you figure the whole thing out, your body's natural healing response will take over and you will achieve wellness. Modern medicine will not cure you, your own insight will.
Those D #s are very poor, not only are you deficient in the raw material, you are deficient in the hormone form as well. Both levels must be retested. What are you supplementing with, keeping in mind that D that is added to food is likely no good? If you are taking D2, you will never get well. Did you test your level before you started the MP?
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i don't understand why this thread has gone on a vit D tangent
yes-it is important and a lot of people are low in it these days...BUT:
it is easy to test for and easy to treat (no...i am not an idsa doc)
it does have many symptoms that lyme has...in my experience the lyme symptoms were of a much worse intensity...
but just test it and treat it.
i went from 3 to 47 in 3 months of 4000 a day. i felt different in a week...but kept going per llmd til the number was up
just do it. it's one thing that can be fixed easily-then get on with figuring out the rest.
maybe you're not even low.
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
DR L-- sorry I am very stressed out.. and being in this state of bad health for all this time is very scary and frustrating. I have tried everything, been to every kind of doctor, been diagnosed with everything in the medical book I think... I just want my life back.
I am worried about supplemeting D since being on the MP...
My levels during the MP were-- !,25D=29 and 25D=15
When on the MP my 25D=7... went up to 15 after I got off.
Everything I have read about VIT D is that it is POISON..used to kill rats.
I don't know anymore??
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Too much of a good thing...Any vitamin could be used as a poison, it is simply a matter of figuring out what constitutes the LD 100, or what would be a lethal dose to 100% of the individuals exposed. Vitamin D does have a lethal dose for humans but normal supplement doses are infinitessimally small relative to what the LD 100 or even LD 1 would be in humans.
In fact, the only cases of vitamin D toxicity I have seen documented are cases where the dairy improperly dilutes the vitamin D they put in milk.
With #s like that, you should not have gone on the MP.
Look for a fish derived 400 IU vitamin D supplement, start at one per day for a few days then up it by one capsule every few days. If you herx, stay at that dose until the herx clears and then continue titrating upwards to a dose of around 2000-4000 IU/day.
You must move slowly, longstanding D deficiency has likely left you with a calcium deficiency, as a level of 32 ng/ml is necessary for proper calcium absorption.
A few minutes in the sun will tell you if you are going to herx...
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Oh yeah, Angelica, Miso soup is verboten, however, if you follow the diet puristically, after about 3 weeks have a cup of miso soup, if it is ok you will see no reaction, if you experience symptoms in relatively short order, it remains on the blacklist.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
WHen I am in the sun I get pretty sick.. I feel lethargic and I even got a fever a couple of times. This NEVER happened before the onset of my illness, as I grew up on the beach and laid in the sun for hours everyday. I was a dun worshiper since childhood.
This sun and heat sensitivity started when I got sick... It ACTUALLY got worse while and AFTER the MP.
What is a good brand of FIsh derived VIT D that I can take??
I will see if it can help me, I just do not want to overdo it.
On then MP the goal is to lower the VIT D to VERY low levels... almost Nil
I am on a Wholefood Multi Vitamin right now and it says the Vit D as ergocalciferol 400IU. I take this vitamin 2x a day. It also has veggies, fruits, greens, and mushrooms in it.
Thanks!!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Ergocalciferol is D2, it comes from a fungus, and is different from the vitamin D we make from sunshine, it doesn't fit in the vitamin D receptor like cholecalciferol.
Solgar makes the best vitamin D, but it must say "naturally occuring from fish liver oil". If you get sick in the sun, there might be one or two other deficiencies, or some unknown toxicity.
Check your morning temperature, if it is less than 98, you probably have an iodine deficiency.
Remember:start low, go slow.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by James Marschner: I think we all take Vitamin D supplements.
I drink Vitamin D milk like it's goin' out of style.
So it would have to be a genetic disposition toward the inability to absorb vitamin D.
Why do Abx help with a vitamin D deficiency?
We've almost all been helped by abx...at least a little. It's hard to tell due to the jarisch-herxheimer rxn.
Why would someone w/ a vitamin D deficiency get jarisch-herxheimer rxn's from abx?
Vitamin D in milk is, I believe, the D2 type. Your body needs the D3 type. The [litte] D2 that is absorbed from milk is inefficiently converted into D3 in your body.
You'd probably be much better off obtaining your vitamin D from Fish Oil (in bottle form) or from Chlorella.
When taking VitD supplements, be careful not do overdose. VitD is toxic in too large quantities.
The best source of VitD, obviously, is sunlight. But the UV portion is scarce in the northern hemisphere during winter season.
My recommendation is to drop the milk like it was the plague. There is absolute no nutritional value in today's milk; not even organic. In fact, it will do your body more harm than good.
The reason is that the milk is pasteurized and homogenized. Pasteurization has the following effects on milk: - it removes lactase, thus causing lactose intolerance in people, - the calcium bonding is changed, causing calcium to be inefficiently absorbed, - the shape of protein molecule is changed; this causes allergies in some people. - the fat is modified as well, further discouraging absorption of the nutrients, - nutrients in general are damaged at high temperatures.
The only good milk to drink is raw milk. But aside from that, the only other thing to drink is good clean pH and eloctrolyte balanced water.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
UnexpectedIlls I am so sorry you have been not feeling well for so long.
I go to a excellent well known LLMD that for whatever reason did not check my D3 levels.
After reading Dr. L's posts on this forum I added in some D3. I wanted to get tested first but for whatever reason that did not happen but I do still plan on getting my D3 levels tested in early Nov.
Just by chance after looking over the ingredients in the different D3 supplements at the Health Food store I bought the one buy Solgar not knowing that it was the one Dr. L is recommending. It has made a giant difference in my life by wiping out a major chunk of my depression.
I am now realizing my iodine is probably low too. My temps unless I have a fever run low and the poor person's spot test shows I am low.
Dr. L. is very helpful. Unexpected if you are open to it try some D3 by Solgar and at least see if it helps. I noticed a big difference the week I tried it. I hope you do too because feeling sunnier does help in many ways.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dr. L. what is the best way to supplement Iodine? In what form and what brand? Thank you for your continual help. You are an asset to this board and your helping me figure out my D3 puzzle when my LLMD has not had the time has been very valuable to my health.
I didn't know there was D3 in Chlorella, but it makes sense sort of. I wondered how fish liver could be a good source of D since fish are under water where uv is unlikely to penetrate. It turns out that there is a phytoplankton that makes D3 and the D3 moves up the food chain!
Angelica, you make a good point, it takes a clear head to work toward wellness.
Wild seafood is a good source of iodine, as is sea kelp or just seaweed, consider it the spinach of the sea. You can get it at health food stores, in a capsule form (ground up kelp in a capsule, not a pill that may have fillers, binders and other ingredients) and the dose should be titrated up from a couple of capsules a day to at least 6 per day. After being on this dose for a while, if you notice a +ve difference, have TSH tested. You are as likely to OD on kelp as you would be to OD on spinach...
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Thanks I do have some Wild Harvest organic kelp but was not taking enough of it.
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quote:Originally posted by DoctorLuddite: Cmike, right on!
I didn't know there was D3 in Chlorella, but it makes sense sort of. I wondered how fish liver could be a good source of D since fish are under water where uv is unlikely to penetrate. It turns out that there is a phytoplankton that makes D3 and the D3 moves up the food chain!
Angelica, you make a good point, it takes a clear head to work toward wellness.
Wild seafood is a good source of iodine, as is sea kelp or just seaweed, consider it the spinach of the sea. You can get it at health food stores, in a capsule form (ground up kelp in a capsule, not a pill that may have fillers, binders and other ingredients) and the dose should be titrated up from a couple of capsules a day to at least 6 per day. After being on this dose for a while, if you notice a +ve difference, have TSH tested. You are as likely to OD on kelp as you would be to OD on spinach...
DL,
Yes, Chlorella contains loads of Vit D3. And so does Cod liver oil...but NOT Fish oil (why, I don't know, but that's just so!).
Everyone,
Be careful where you obtain your Chlorella from. Generic Chlorella, I've heard, may not deliver all the benefits of Chlorella. Do some research before you pick one. Chlorella is also a magnificent detoxifier, so it pays off getting a good brand.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
The reason cod liver or fish liver oil does have D and plain fish oil doesn't is that the former is a product distilled from the liver of the fish, where fat soluble vitamins are stored, and fish oil is distilled from the leftover parts of the fish, except the liver. There probably is some trace D in the fish oil, but not enough to trigger lab thresholds. Fish oil does often list Vit E as an ingredient. Go figure.
[ 20. October 2008, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Michael are there some brands of Chlorella you prefer? I have been taking some by Source Naturals due to the high cost of others.
I spend a ton of money on supplements each month. I do take cod liver oil too by Nordic Naturals.
Unexpected maybe try something for BIOFILMS like MucoStop and see if you notice a difference.
The ones I'm currently using were purchased at mercola.com. I have good faith in these. But it really is almost impossible to tell if they are good or bad.
Next time I'm inclined to buy them from ultralife.com. Another outfit I'm trusting of.
I don't know anything about source naturals. Have not heard anything bad about them. Generally speaking, good Chlorella is what's termed "cracked cell wall" Chlorella.
Once you start taking Chlorella, which is a lot cheaper than Cod Liver oil, you'll still get all your Vit D3 supplements. In fact, I'd think you can ditch the usually expensive Cod Liver oil which really only gives you Omega 3 EPA/DHA and which you can get from elsewhere anyway, such as organic free range eggs and flax oil.
Michael
-------------------- I'm not an MD. The above is IMO and in my experience as well as from health related books.
I've had symptoms consistent with neurological Lyme disease since 1986. Was diagnosed with Lyme in 2004. Am feeling better now than ever before. Posts: 702 | From NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Flax oil does have omega 3 but it requires 3 different enzymes to convert it into active DHA, and those enzymes are also used by omega 6 oils to generate proinflammatory cytokines. Omega 6 oils are present in most people in industrialized societies in a 20:1 ratio to omega 3 oils so it isn't hard to figure out which oil will out compete for enzyme binding. After you have been taking lots of fish oil for a while is when to try flax.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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