posted
Along the lines of what Tracy is saying - If most people are not qualified to use the Bionic properly(due to detox methods etc. needed) than why are most people purchasing the machines when over ther.
i wanted to ask Six if Willow has trepidation about purchasing the Bionic when to this point she has not had any physical improvement.
Also did Dr W recommend she purcahase and use EBV nosodes to treat herself back in the Sates.
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djf2005
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i failed to mention i think the deciding factor for a trip or purchase for most of us will be if the ones who have gone and are "better" STAY better for 2, 3, 6 months down the road.
kind of an important point
cheers
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Tracy9
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Agreed, Derek; we won't be out that much if we chip in for a machine.
Yes, Luvdogs is an acupuncturist in RI and I am hoping she could treat us. I have Paul's email and will try to reach him about bringing us back a machine. I can also ask Six, she could mail it to us.
I also know Physical Therapists that would do it and be very interested. Again though, it sounds like anyone can administer the Bionic 880 from what Gigi is saying, and that it is all the adjunct things you need specialists for.
Agree with CTLyme, why would they all be bringing back the machine if they aren't qualified to use it? Especially on their families?
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Tracy9
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I've emailed both Paul and Sara, and Six as well. We'll see what they respond!
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
well, guys, this is kind of what i meant in my post. i'm feeling a strange vibe. hurried, and like "i'd better get on board asap!!" but catch myself as far too unclear as to how it would really work out as far as individualized treatment, potential complications, and simply access to the unit would go.
i just hope we can find ways for people to get a stream of usable information so everyone can figure out how this therapy works and decide if they wish to find access to it, and reasoned approaches as to how it can work for people interested.
if some of you decide to get a club set up fast, as it seems you are planning, please do share your experiences as well. i am considering the treatment for my very ill son. so, i would need more answers than are provided so far, both from those who have gone to doc w., and regarding any plan to work as a group with one machine. it's not fear, it's reasoned and responsible thinking, in my particular case.
i may be completely misunderstanding the process, tho, i'm just learning about this, after doing several hours of research on what's available. if it is such that each family can use the machine for one-two weeks, and then a break is prudent, and the timing was set so the family could get it again in x number of days.. like that? and each could report/share detox experiences, therapies, supports with one another, working as a team as much as possible.. i'd consider joining in.
i do greatly appreciate everyone's thoughts, experiences, information and ideas.
there are many options and many unanswered questions.
mo
[ 27. October 2008, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Mo ]
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sixgoofykids
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Willow feels like the machine is a good investment and is still buying one. She is not obligated at this point, but plans on buying it as she feels it is a good tool. She needs to treat viruses.
The machine is easy ... very simple .... anyone can use it. We just go back to the room and use it ourselves. It couldn't be easier.
I don't know how essential the IV's are .... since I never used it without the IV, I can't say how much they help or do not help.
If you know you have Lyme, all you have to do is treat it with the machine. Very simple. If you don't want the IV's, you can do it at home. BUT, if you have a reaction, that is when you might need the help of a practitioner.
If there are other issues, such as Willow's very high Epstein Barr numbers, you will need more treatment with different nosodes before you see noticeable improvement.
Or if you have a lot of damage from the Lyme, it takes time to heal, just as when a healthy person gets sick from the flu.
On your own it will take longer .... no one knows how much longer ... because you won't have the bacterial vials.
I plan on treating the six goofy kids and the goofy husband with nosodes and the Bionic when I get home.
I also know an MD in my area studying with ILADS who is interested, so if it helps her Lyme, maybe we can do more. Again, I think it would be cheaper to go to Germany for 3 weeks than Ohio ... and I don't know that the bacterial vials can be used by anyone but a lab in the US (that is what I have been told, even doctors can't get them .... you could crush up an infected tick and use it).
Just throwing ideas out there for you to think about. For me, this is working. We'll see how it works long term ....
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oxygenbabe
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Goofy, what do you mean the bacterial vials can't be used by anybody in the US but a lab? They're just homeopathic nosodes, right? Why wouldn't they be usable, especially just holding them? I believe a homeopath may need to order them, that's all. And it's possible the Indian homeopathic pharmacy would make them. I had inquired about that.
This idea of sharing machines also seems somewhat unlikely to me (Mo).
And yes there's a "get it now please" feeling here, that I well understand, but I suggest patience. Like Derek says, let's wait and see how more people do, and whether in looking back 3 or 6 months from now they truly feel it made a big difference. It's hard to know at this point.
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djf2005
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put on thinking caps people
if we DO split a machine and it doesnt work, then thats what, 1k between 5 of us wasted. YES, 1k is a lot of money, BUT, weve all spent (at least i have) THOUSANDS already so whats 1k more?
as i said before and oxygen reiterated, lets WAIT 2-3 more months though, follow up on six, scott, nano, gigi, and all the others, see where they are 2-3 months from now without abx or anything BUT the bionic, and then make a decision non whether or not we want to buy one.
to be honest, I would actually throw down 1k NOW for paul or someone to bring one home for me and trac and whoever else chipped in because im going to spend 1k on OTHER therapies that are not as promising anyway...
nonetheless, to soothe the naysayers, we can just as well wait and see how everyone is doing 2-3 months from now.
it is a given that there will be SOMEONE from LN over there at any given time so when the time comes and we do make a deicision as to whether or not get one, all we have to do is paypal that person the moolah and presto, bionic for us!
so in summary, ill get one now, OR wait 2-3 months to satisfy the more leary patients and then chip in for one. either way i i want to be able to use one and i can spend 1k. this means we only need about 5-7 people total on the ENTIRE NE area which should not be hard.
how does everyone feel about this?
cheers!!
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I really wanted to chip in, but wouldn't be able to till tax time. I understand you all might not want to wait that long...
I unfortunately do not have 1k to throw down tomorrow, but I would if I did....
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lymie_in_md
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If we purchase a unit within a group, we need to make sure those that can't afford it get treated as well. We just have to work the logistics.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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As far as the vial you can't get. They are not hard to culture ourselves. What do you need, the ticks of course, if you find a tick that is energetically tested for lyme you stick the tick in a vial and you have a nosode of live bacteria. It would be best to get one here anyways. To get ticks, take precautions and have premerthin on your clothes and just drag a white rag as they do in the movie "Under our Skin" and you can get ticks.
Lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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NanaDubo
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Oxygenbabe - the bacterial vials that six refers to are not the same as the nosodes. I brought home my nosodes but there were two that I used there which do not leave Dr. W office that are bacterial vials.
As far as I know you can't get these bacterial vials. There might be a way, I just don't know how.
You can get many, many nosodes - not a problem. I just don't know if the bacterial vials are crucial to the process. I have heard from someone you can probably treat without them but it might take a good deal longer. Once you have had the initial treatments with them, I believe they are no longer necessary.
Is this correct Gigi? About the bacterial vials?
The manufacturer of the machine told me that you can certainly try to get one shipped to the US and you might have good luck and you might not.
I sounds as though it's easier to get one through to Canada. Those of you with friends or family there could easily get one shipped to Canada and drive to pick it up. Those in NY, CT etc. are quite close to parts of Canada. Just a thought.
Those of you who are watching to see how we do 3 mos, 6 mos down the road - I can report that 1 month after my last treatment I am still feeling very well. I am still releasing various things and constantly working on detoxing. I do not feel the least bit lymie.
The metals start coming out of my mouth soon so I will see how that goes Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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NanaDubo
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Okay - looks like Bob answered the question while I was typing Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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Tracy9
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Derek, I heard back from Paul; he believes he can only bring back one machine, but is going to check with Dr W. today.
I am willing to throw down $1k today as well if we could get a few other people in on it, and could get the machine.
I'm hoping there is a way they can bring back more than one....and I am a little confused as to why it can't get through to the US?
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Tracy9
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Derek,
My only other thought, as a last ditch option, is that I would be willing to go to Germany ASAP and bring back a machine to share if we all pitched in.
Only problem is that it would cost me a whole lot more....but we could definitely get the machine quickly, and if enough people pitched in it could be doable.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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sixgoofykids
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Dr. W himself told me it would take longer without the bacterial vial. O2babe, no, the bacterial vial is not a homeopathic nosode.
We can only bring back machines for personal use, so that would by definition be one per person.
Dr. W can take appts. in January, but he is moving in March/April, so if you don't want the winter weather, you have to wait till May.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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ok i am confused... why does he use nosodes taped to your chest as part of remedy, but those nosodes are not available in the us?
are the bacterias the same as nosodes?
and, if we know that we have been tested positive for, let's say myco ferment, can't we just buy myco ferm nosodes in the states and use them as one would the nosodes taped to your chest?
because i know we can get nosodes for babs, bart, ebv, mycos here.
can it hurt us to treat for them with the nosodes taped to us, without energetically testing for them first, since we already know we have them via our llmds??
sorry to ask so many questions that might be hard to answer but i think that it would sum up the treatment for everybody who is considering continuing treatments at home.
thanks!
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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oxygenbabe
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So he actually has live, or dead, bacteria in the vial? What bacteria--borrelia? German (afzelli?). Can you find out for me it would be appreciated.
You can gather ticks by putting a bottle of seltzer in a tick endemic area. They will come for the c02.
I wouldn't do it. I don't want to get bit again. Also its a mix of infections. Seems a sloppy way to do it. Rather have a vial of my own blood.
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sixgoofykids
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When we get treatment here we have 12 vials taped to our solar plexus (not chest). Two of them are bacteria and ten are nosodes of varying strengths.
He said he can't treat with blood because it would make us too sick, but that we can use blood later when our pathogen load is lowered. Judging by how the treatment affected me, I'd be very afraid to use blood until I was farther along in treatment.
The nosodes are available in the US .... as mentioned, also for the coinfections. It's a good idea IMO to bring coinfection nosodes here if you come to Germany to have them tested to see if you need to treat for a particular coinfection. I don't see what you would lose except time if you treated for something you did not have.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls: Where do you get nosodes from???
Good question. I don't know ..... here I got them by prescription from the pharmacy and that is something I will be looking into when I return as I would like to get other nosodes (babesia, mold, etc.).
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Tracy9
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I can easily get plenty of ticks here to put in a vial.....
Ok, I am waiting to hear back from Joey to see if he will bring us a machine. He has his mom with him, so that would mean he can bring back an extra. Then he would need to mail it to us from CA.
It sounds like the machine is going to be about $7500. If Joey says yes, I need to seriously know who is interested in pitching in, like in the next day or two, to get the machine.
If not, does anyone want to pitch in if I go to Germany in January to bring us back one?
I have lots of ideas on how it could work....again, I think it would be cool if people came to my house and we did it together. Shandy is in driving distance. Paul, who is in Germany now, is only about an hour away from me and perhaps could help us with learning to use it, though if I go to Germany I guess I'd know.
I totally agree with Derek; it can't hurt, and if people like Six are coming home and treating others, why can't we do this ourselves????
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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I want to pitch in, but it will not be feasible for me until Joey gets his income taxes
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djf2005
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trac-
sounds like some good ideas.
i am ok with you going to germany to get the machine if someone over there now cannot bring onw home. a thought tho:
if you or one of us from the group who in interested in using the machine back here in the states is going to go to germany, why not make an appt, get therapy from dr w so we can see how to use it and then bring the machine back for all of us?
i am considering going anyway early next year so possibly i could go and get the therapy there and then bring it back? or is this what you intended to do?
any word from anyone over there if they can bring one back or not?
i totally agree it may be possible to do this ourselves, especially if everyone is bringine them home and using them on their friends and families then why nis it any different if we use it on ourselves?? contradicts itself
my ONLY concern at this point would be the nosodes, etc, and making sure we have all the ones we would need (ie co infections, etc)
thanks
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Tracy9
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Yes, if I went I would most definitely go and get the treatment; and gain all the knowledge I could to bring back.
I have not heard back from Joey regarding him being able to bring one back or not.
I dont' think the nosodes are going to be a problem, I have seen several people here post about where to get them. Sounds like we can make the borrelia one with our own ticks...????
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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sixgoofykids
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We were just discussing today (at the guesthouse in Germany) about how to duplicate the IV's we are getting to help with the herx. I think detox after treatment will need to be addressed. It's hard .... yes, we're getting better, but the first week is tough.
I do plan on using it on my family, but since I will have nosodes and not the borrelia vials, the herx should be less .... but I still want a detox protocol.
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Brussels
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Don't ever underestimate detoxing. A herx can kill, not figure of speech, but reality.
This is just one site of cardiovascular death after herxing from syphillis. Do a search. I've read on and on about it. There are other links in lymenet about herx dangers, real dangers that may lead to death.
Anyone can do the Bionic, it seems, but detoxing is crucial. Some of you may be stronger at detoxing, but most aren't.
I'm convinced that the most difficult is finding a good detox protocol to avoid damage (or death!). Anyone who has done chelation knows what free heavy metals do to the body. It can be horrible. There will be loads being released + loads of neurotoxins from die off.
This is no play of kids, don't think you are strong enough to stand ANY herxes. Get naturopaths or whoever knows how to detox WELL and what to do in case of emergency, and who can test energetically for cleansers.
Detoxing is one of the most difficult things to master, because toxins are so different and need different 'binders'.
Homeopathy without the Bionic already can cause strong herxes. With the light, I believe on an even stronger reaction.
Deseret Biologicals in the US have the nosodes for sooo many coinfections and still for other parasites, infections, the list is enormous.
Contact Bejoy from lymenet, she can probably get the nosodes with her practioner or so. Once the source is there at Deseret, they can do whatever dilutions they want. It's easy. It's a matter only of willing to cooperate or not.
I guess there's a general rule, 'no sharing of nosodes' (or am I mistaken?). I wouldn't share my nosodes with anyone out of my family. The light flashed through nosodes may carry info to and from the treated people and imprint in the nosodes, at least, that's how it happens with LED devices.
So, no sharing of nosodes, I suppose (maybe I'm wrong and things are different with the Bionic?).
The homeopathic nosodes dr. W. uses are of lower dilutions, meaning, there is more concentration of the original substance (borrelia). I guess this will kick the butt of most of us, without the live borrelia vials.
Dr. W. though wants a treatment that works fast and is there to help on strong herxes. I wonder what is the exact function of the live vials. If these are what triggers the main healing reaction in his patients, then they are a must. But if they are just supportive for the treatment, then it is fine to do without them (my guess).
January is fully booked by dr. W.(Feb I can't go), so I will only go end of March-beg April.
I'll certainly energetically test these live vials while there, to see what they do to me (in case I need them), if he allows me to test on myself.
According to dr. K., borrelia doesn't live in the blood or doesn't like the blood to live. If one treats with own's blood, too many other things will be addressed, I suppose.
If people are having trouble to deal ONLY with borrelia, I wouldn't take the risk. There are certainly borrelia antibodies there, but too many other stuff that will be treated at once.
Also for the crushed tick, no good idea. Too many stuff inside a tick.
I took crushed tick dilutions, but only through normal homeopathic dilutions orally, without light. I wouldn't do it with light, for fear of herxes and because God knows what is inside the tick that we are forcing inside us through light!
Deseret Biologicals have the original source (so that they make dilutions from it), so why not trying to contact them off line (might be something forbidden in the US)? But as I said, I wouldn't worry much initially because I think lower diluted homeopathics do work well too as a start (my guess).
Of course, the best would be the protocol as it is done by dr. W, because it is less trial and error.
I'm sure there can be a wonderful combination between Deseret products and the Bionic for lyme.
Gigi could chime in, as she's treating her husband on her own protocols for detoxing heavy metals and other toxins, I suppose. (?)
does anyone know of other company than Deseret in the US that could produce these nosodes?
Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Marnie
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I believe it is imperative you take about 400mg of Mg about 1 our before these treatments.
This will allow time to raise your blood level of Mg (which ultimately will be lowered in a couple of hours by the kidneys which maintain the balance).
IF (and I belive so) this treatment increases ATP, ATP will drive Mg back into the cells where it binds with ATP as Mg-ATP which helps to transfer phosphate groups.
By virtue of Bb's PKCD inhbitor, some phosphate is not being transferred.
There are other cheaper machines available OTC here in the U.S.
I don't know if they are as effective. Nor do I know if nosodes are really necessary.
It is unlikely that the current gov. trials recruiting for patients to use the 880nM wavelength to heal are also using nododes since the underlying causes of this infections is not Bb.
Once again, here is the link to the gov. testing - see the list of the various diseases (included is HIV):
NanaDubo
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I don't know if I'm confused or what. Aren't Desert Biologicals products homeopathic nosodes that are taken orally?
I thought the nosodes we were discussing were the little vials or "ampulens" that we have taped to our solar plexus during treatment with the bionic880 in Germany.
Brussels - I was interested in the oral nosode you spoke about for using as a preventative but of course, can't get it shipped here.
All the other nosodes that at least I have been referring to are sealed glass vials.
[ 28. October 2008, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: NanaDubo ]
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Brussels
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Hey Nana Dubo, I've seen the nosodes you are talking with a naturopath.
You can put homeopathic dilutions wherever you want, in a glass vial, through xylit globules/ pellets(tasting like sugar), in an IV injection, on some cream to rub on, in a suppository, whatever you'd like.
Maybe the vials you are talking cannot be broken easily, but I would bet they can be ingested (if they are only D dilutions of borrelia).
Once you tap them to your body, it's like ingesting. You can either rub them or ingest, or even flash them with a laser without having direct contact with tongue nor skin, the effect is more or less the same as ingestion (dr. K. swears that flashing LED trhough homeopathic vials is the best way to take it, better than ingesting).
Deseret shall have the Urtinktur (in German), the 'original tincture', meaning, a non-diluted source from where all other homeopathic dilutions are done. At least, that is what I suppose.
If they don't have it, they know where to get it otherwise, they can't make their dilutions to sell.
You yourself could do the lowest dilutions, if you get a D3 nosode, break it and dilute for yourself to do a D4, D5 and so on. You got to succuss it right though.
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GiGi
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There is a diffeence between nosodes and remedies. And people should learn a bit about that before they venture into mass application of nosodes or other applications.
Learn before you leap. I am learning every day.
Energetic testing is the most important part and if you do that, you need to know how to unblock your regulation, if your AN system is blocked, because of disease or overload. Blocked regulation has to be taken account in any energetic testing, such as ART, tensor, etc. If your meridians are blocked, your body cannot give the "true" response.
And stay away from tough treatments until you know what you are doing. As Brussels says, this is not child's play.
Learn to tensor with a good tensor before you treat yourself or others. Otherwise it's like walking through electric cobwebs.
Take care.
Re nosodes used in the treatment by Dr. W.: The nosodes are NOT to be taken by mouth. They are basically manufactured for testing only. It is clearly stated on the container box. And if they are on the body, the Bionic880 should be applied right away and exactly as the protocol calls for.
Off to some important tasks.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Why doesn't Doctor K in Washington start doing this stuff? He obviously has an affiliation with and recommended Dr. W to Gigi and others.
Gigi, you are closely connected to Doctor K. Why don't you suggest this to him? It would be a WHOLE lot easier than leaving the country for lots of us. Not that travelling to Washington is easy, either, but it beats being teased with an treatment that could work yet is unattainable to some.
Hmmmmm??? Posts: 111 | From Nowhere | Registered: Jun 2008
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"Why doesn't Doctor K in Washington start doing this stuff? He obviously has an affiliation with and recommended Dr. W to Gigi and others."
This has been suggested many many times on these boards. Gigi says that she is in contact with Dr. K apparently this will be something that will take a long time. Personally I am a little surprised that after all this time the two doctors have not even spoken. I hope they can. JL
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Tracy9
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I have been told that Dr K HAS gone to Germany and spent time with Dr.W, and that he is not quite sure of the treatment yet. He is waiting to see if it really works for people over time before he is willing to consider doing it.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by Tracy9: I have been told that Dr K HAS gone to Germany and spent time with Dr.W, and that he is not quite sure of the treatment yet. He is waiting to see if it really works for people over time before he is willing to consider doing it.
My understanding is they have NOT met.
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Tracy9
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NanaDubo
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Member # 14794
posted
"Re nosodes used in the treatment by Dr. W.: The nosodes are NOT to be taken by mouth. They are basically manufactured for testing only. It is clearly stated on the container box. And if they are on the body, the Bionic880 should be applied right away and exactly as the protocol calls for. "
Thanks for clearing that up Gigi. I couldn't imagine anyone would be ingesting the vials we use with Dr. W for treatment and I thought maybe I was reading some of the posts incorrectly.
So there are homeopathic remedies and there are nosodes for treatment with the Bionic880. They definitely are not one in the same.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Nana and Gigi,
the Propolis tincture I keep buying at dr. K.'s institute is only for COSMETIC use. That's what is writen on the bottles. Dr. K. of course, doesn't say it is for cosmetic use, nor none of his followers. It is for ingestion.
There is a problem with law here, some products can be ONLY sold by pharmacies, other by shops and so on. There's strict control about who may sell propolis and herbals or homeopathics here.
You know, on the facade they say 'for protetion of the consumer', on the reality, it is purely market control.
I buy propolis without any state control either through ebay Germany or behind the curtain, in German street markets here.
Honey producers will only sell propolis on backstage in Germany (I have to go behind the scene to get mine), but one can find propolis anywhere else in Switzerland or Belgium (in any food shop).
I find the law control on propolis in Germany ridiculous.
There is clearly some problem in Germany, with the pharma industry and law.
I could NEVER find any borrelia nosodes for ingestion in German pharmacies, but I can find them ALL OVER in Belgium and Switzerland OVER THE COUNTER, from all potencies you can imagine.
Pharmacies are NOT allowed to sell borrelia nosodes for ingestion in Germany, so no way they will be allowed to write 'for ingestion'.
I don't suggest you just open the glass vials and ingest the stuff, but if you read the contents of it and it says 'homeopathic borrelia dilutions D6' or similar, there's no reason why they can't be ingested. There is no difference with any other borrelia homeopathic dilutions we take in Belgium or Switzerland.
Of course, one has to be careful about the amount of ingestion, because of die off reactions.
If you are afraid, don't do it.
I suppose the vials work much better through the Bionic and LED than ingested, so why drinking it anyway?
Gigi, just tell me one reason these liquids wouldn't be ingestable? Maybe there's a foreign substance there besides water or alcohol?
My homeopath is categoric in saying there's nothing like expiring date for homeopathy stored in 'sugar' (xylit). Hahneman products were still consumed recently for a research and they are STILL active today!!!
But the law obliges manufacturers to write an expiry date for all homeopathic products. Are they trying to protect consumers or protect the industry?
Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
This topic has blown my mind quite a bit. I hope soon enough we will have these machines in the states, or I will be getting on that plane soon enough....I lurk here more than I post, but thank you all for enlightening me....pray for a cure for us all.......Rich
Posts: 208 | From Hudson Valley, New York | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
let me get this straight, as of now, one can only get the bionic 880 machine if they travel to germany and bring it back themselves (or have someone traveling personally with it in tow?)
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Pretty much Mo. It cannot be shipped into the US. It can however be shipped to Canada.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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"This is no play of kids, don't think you are strong enough to stand ANY herxes. Get naturopaths or whoever knows how to detox WELL and what to do in case of emergency, and who can test energetically for cleansers."
I am concerned as well. Indeed this is my main issue about going to Germany for Bionic Treatment. I'm afraid the herx will be too strong. I'm especially worried because my heart sometimes has irregular beats when I use something strong like the metal chelator DMSA. I wonder if anyone who has this treatment has had such problems? thanks, JL
Posts: 268 | From new york city | Registered: May 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Mo, if you missed my earlier ordeal: We purchased the Bionic880 and it was shipped to us. It got hung up in some depot in Ohio where DHL has a transfer station, I guess. It was sitting there and sitting there and no one at DHL could explain to us why. I finally got tired and had it officially returned to Germany, back to the manufacturer. We had our appointment with Dr. W. and I wanted the machine there while we were visiting overthere.
The manufacturer delivered a replacement machine to my brother's place where we were going to stay for a couple of days before seeing Dr. W.
Nobody in the world was ever able to explain to me what was holding the original machine up in Ohio.
So nobody really knows that a machine, if properly labeled for pain treatment, etc. to a private party would not be allowed into the country. Of course customs has to be paid, possibly.
When we returned from our visit back in the US, we brought the instrument with us. Self-use for pain control. We did not have to pay any duty.
Maybe if someone has one shipped for that purpose, it may go through. I do not know. It has to be sold to someone outside the European Union; not a relative or friend in Germany, etc. Otherwise the 20% VAT tax is added - that is the law. Also I think the price is somewhat lower for people who visit Dr. W.
If I needed another instrument, I would probably try it to see what happens. But we don't.
*********************************
While doing all the diverse treatments I am doing on the machine today, all I can say is -- soooo glad we have it. I.e. treating allergies or allergic reactions to a life supporting substance is a lot easier than doing it any other way.
It took me a while to figure this out - my husband reacts to NO (Nitric Oxide) with an allergy. That explains why he gets blue fingertips every once in a while and of course this is detrimental to the whole body. I don't know if that is a collateral to Lyme or to any other toxicities, but I am certainly glad I discovered it.
I finally figured that out with my tensor and the ART testing I was taught by A.R. and Dr. K. What alerted me alos was that whenever he exercised he also got a swollen lower lip and swollen cheek. It always disappeared, but kept becoming more obvious and lasting longer. I pinned it down to NO by testing his own blood and testing a Viagra pill knowing that it contains NO. He tested allergic to the pill and to his own blood.
Now I am treating it with a homeopathic and the Bionic. I learned from other Bionic therapists that they do treat allergies of all sorts with the Bionic --- I am learning more and more. It is so simple and it beats any other allergy treatment I have done before - such as NAET and others that are a pain in the neck and take forever with all sorts of precautions and often don't last. Energetic testing to do this - is a must to determine frequencies, length of treatment, intensities, etc., with vial or without.... Tensor tells all.
I am coming more and more to the conclusion - it is never only Lyme and Co. You have to look for more, especially after a lengthy process of trying to get rid of Lyme. A number of things can go wrong in the interim. There is a viral component as well as chemical toxicities that start to surface now - none are conducive to feeling 100% well after the Lyme infection is taken care of with the Bionic. At least that is what I find in my husband. I am certain age has something to do with it - but thankfully, my husband is in better shape in all other aspects than many 30 years younger.
Any treatment with the Bionic seems to be much quicker. I think my husband has not too many metals left, and the fungi and mold is also reducing.
So we will keep plugging away at it, learning more as we go along. I am thankful that there are people around the world who are willing to share their experiences with the Bionic from whom I can learn. It is quite an experience -- that's all I can say -- to pick up the phone and tell my story of woe and getting support from people whom I have never met. They are all busy in their practice, but still have some time for others.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Gigi said:
"So nobody really knows that a machine, if properly labeled for pain treatment, etc. to a private party would not be allowed into the country. Of course customs has to be paid, possibly."
When I spoke with the company yesterday that manufactures the Bionic 880, the gentleman told me that it CANNOT be shipped to the US because it is not FDA approved.
It sounds like since the time GiGi got one shipped here, they are no longer doing that.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I do not recommend getting a machine and doing this without knowing what you are doing. The effect is very strong and it will put many people in bed for a day or more. Here, they use detox IVs that are very powerful to help with the strong effect. This cannot be easily replicated in the US and so I would be very careful about being one of the first to attempt this. You may also not know how to use the device properly and I don't think this is something that one should play around with without knowing exactly what you are doing and being under the care of a doctor that supports doing it.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brussels
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Member # 13480
posted
Hey Scott, I tried to post an answer in your blog, but forgot my password! It happens all the time.
It's snowing here too (Konstanz area).
I just realized the INK, the Institute of dr. K. selling loads of things, including DVDs is in Stuttgart, close to Pforzheim.
They sell green lasers and lots of testing vials. I wonder if they have a biotensor there.
Good luck in today's photon treatment! I hope you're getting used to live without your teddy bear every day!
I also suppose dr. K. is in Germany now. For thosse staying until Nov 13, Thursday, he'll be giving a lecture on lyme in Freiburg (not too far from Pforzeheim either).
Mercure Hotel, Auf der Zinnen 1, 79098 Freiburg 19.30hs, 13 Nov, 8 euro for entrance In German. I'll be there.
Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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