Topic: Curious as to how many people Think about Suicide
lymetwister
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Member # 19590
posted
I think it's the superego that jumps in and says I could never do this under any circumstances, but I just wonder how many people have the thought cross their minds.
I find myself often thinking about Suicide when I am Herxing terribly and there seems no end to this disease. I go so far as to actually think about how I would complete such an act, but in the end, I always tell myself I could never get myself to perform such an act. In my case, I do have many people that love me and need me around. Even in this condition, they need me, but I still often say to myself, they may need me and I would hate to leave them, but nothing is worth this suffering.
Forgive me, as I am going through a major Herx right now, so I just wanted to see how many people think about this. I like to think of myself as being pretty Stoic when it comes to any and all discomfort, so I wonder how others make it through this crap, when someone as strong as I am has such trouble.
After having this disease, I often wonder if many of the teenage suicides are related to Chronic Lyme and they just didn't know it. They got depressed, didn't get better on antidepressants and said screw this, I can't live like this. This might even be why the Antidepressant Warning labels talk about worsening depression and to look out for warning signs of suicide, perhaps not because the medication is causing further depression, but because it's not working and these poor kids see no other way out when an antidepressant should be the fix all in their minds. Perhaps they have Lyme...
For the record, I am not suicidal, I just think about it often and again, just wonder who else out there is on my boat.
lymetwister
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LisaS
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posted
Yes Lymetwister, Never in my life did I think I would EVER think this way. I have been sick for 18 years now. And through those 18 years I have had several bouts with thinking about suicide. I would never do it. But I start to even obsess over it. A couple months ago I even stopped eating for awhile thinking it would just end it all.
What keeps me going is a friend on here Johnlyme, once told me, remember, it's not YOU thinking this way, it's the bacteria in your brain making you think this way. It will pass, and he's right, it always does. Talking to other people with lyme always helps too.
posted
Yes, I have been there very recently. I am not far from there most days. I had a terrible herx on a new protocol in February that made me think about it all the time right from the second day on that protocol.
It is the bacteria, and the die off, and all the other crap. It is not you. My friend Dave tells me that all the time.
My doctor changed the protocol or rather stopped it for another reason, and a lot those dark, dark feelings have left me. I am not well, but I don't feel this overwhelming desire to end. That proves to me that it was the herx, and the bacteria, and the treatment.
We are taking it slower now. I will be upping my antibitoics more slowly. My LLMD told me he wants to kill lyme, not me in the process.
So, stay strong if you can. Remember it isn't you. It is the bacteria. You are not alone.
PM if you want.
Kathy
-------------------- Severe neurological problems. Probably sick for years. Became chronically sick in Aug 2007. Undiagnosed for another 15 months. Started treatment for lyme and bart Sept. 2008. Improving, but very slowly. Posts: 515 | From washington dc | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
I think death will bring a sweet release for many who suffer but I hope I can be strong enough to put that event in God's hands. Besides many people get better and this compels me to hope for the same.
I believe there must be something we need to learn from this, even if it is only how our experiences might help others from suffering the same.
I hope I can be strong enough to fight off those dark feelings until I'm well. With God's help it is possible.
Posts: 199 | From utah | Registered: Jan 2009
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glm1111
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posted
Someone said to me years ago
"Don't even think about killing yourself because you will have the same emotions, but you won't have a body to work them out in"
What if that's true? Do we really want to take that chance?
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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sutherngrl
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posted
I agree with bwillis. I feel that there is something to learn from all this suffering.
I pray all the time that God will help me through this; and I have to constantly remind myself that I have made progress, even though it may be slight, it is there. And also I do know people that have recovered and that it just takes time.
Of course sometimes it is easy to sink into that depression that just comes along with Chronic illness. And of course death sometimes looks like a much better alternative. But I want to "live" again. And that is where I have to set my sights.
I "picture" myself living a normal, happy, content life all the time and I long for that again. And I just hope through Gods help, I can be patient and strong.
I feel a spiritual like connection to all other Lymies and I feel that we are serving some kind of Godly purpose. I don't know what the purpose is and I may never know, but it helps me to think of it that way.
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feelfit
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Member # 12770
posted
Me. I have thought about it a lot. NOt because I want to die, but becuasue I cannot take the horrific pain.
It always passes. And while life is not what I want it to be, it is not something that I want to give up.
So yes, I think about it OFTEN. In the end, I'm a big chicken too and with my luck would end up still alive and in worse condition than I am now.
Feelfit
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
I think this topic comes up so much precisely because so many of us DO contemplate suicide as a final option. The reality is that there are several patients who have taken their own lives because they chose to end the unbearable...
What we who remain have to keep telling ourselves is that the disease is sometimes running the show, and that the very nature of this disease is remitting...so those hopeless feelings that come with the disease will be remitting as well.
At times, that is very hard to remember when we are in the midst of despair. My hope is that at those times, we will reach out to those who understand and can validate those feelings and help us to work through them until we are back to ourselves again.
Personally, I have known a few earthbound angels here who have helped me through my darkest days...and to them I will always be so grateful.
posted
I think about it alot especially when herxing and in pain but I know it is a part of the disease and I think very common. When I first relapsed I really felt as if I was not going to make it through this time. So just in case I made a life lessons book for each of my girls. Here are some things I wrote to them:
When life gets tough: When you feel you can't go on, just put one foot in front of the other and do it, it will get easier. There are good days and bad. The bad ones help you appreciate the good ones.
I felt I was going to have a nervous breakdown today, but I didn't, I cried and then I pulled myself together and did something about it and I learned that when you are at your lowest and you think nothing more can go wrong, reach within yourself and find your strength to change it and believe in yourself and in the fact that god will see you through it and all you have to get through is today, tomorrow will work itself out.
Life is hard there's a lot of bad but there's a lot of good. It isn't all bad, notice the good, it's there, if you just look. When I say life is hard I mean there will be days that you feel you can take no more, the pain will rip through you like a sharp knife and the pain will cut so deep that you just want it to end. Maybe even your life to end. Its ok it is a part of life everyone has times like this and you will hurt. You will feel weak and have thoughts that you just can't take it anymore. You can, just do your best and if you need to go to sleep, let your mind wrap itself around the pain while your body rests. Let time do the healing. Reach out for help, it is there you just have to ask and it is ok to ask for help.
Never give up on life. Suicide is not the answer. My mom once told me it is a selfish thing. You are gone and everyone else is left in pain. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Here is a song I wish I could have sent to Gust( my cousin) before he committed suicide:
Everyone says sooner or later you'll reach the end of the line When things get rough some think it's easy to jump the ship . . . You decide
I say--don't throw it away There's about a million reasons why Though you've heard them all before And you're getting very tired Lay your head on my lap and I'll sing you this lullaby
Don't you know That everyone around you Has felt the pain you feel today You're out of control yeah--and you want someone to tell you When you wake up in the morning it'll only be a dream You're out of control . . .
There's a cloud-rolling' overhead and it seems to rain on no one else There's a black sun--casting a black shadow, and I know you feel so all alone You're out of control--and you want the world to love you Or maybe you just want a chance to let them know That you live and breathe and suffer And your back is in the corner and you've got nowhere to go
Nothing' for nothing'--everything's right at your fingertips--for a price Who ever said that life on this planet would ever be paradise I say--don't throw it away, you've got too many things to say If you throw your life, if you throw away your life . . . THE world will never be the same
You're out of control--and you move without direction And people look right through your soul You're out of control--and you want someone to tell you When you wake up in the morning it'll only be a dream And I wish that I could tell you, it'll only be a dream. In loving Memory of Gust Peterson.
Take Care, Ann
-------------------- If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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From what I hear, normal people think of this, too, from time to time.
Life can be hard for everyone and somehow thinking that - if we really could not take anymore - there would be a way out can, oddly, help relieve the pressure.
That gives us time, usually, to chill out, really consider all the ramifications and move along to something that brings us joy or meaning - or puts us on a path where that might at least be possible.
TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
Here is an article by an MD: http://tinyurl.com/dm39on In the late 1970's, I treated a depressed patient who appeared to have more than just depression. Her weight increased from 120 to 360 pounds, she was suicidal, had papille�dema, arthritis, cognitive impairments, and anxiety.
This patient became disabled, went bankrupt, and had marital problems. Like many whose symptoms could not be explained, she was re�ferred to a psychiatrist. However, I was never comfortable labeling her condition as just an�other depression.
At the time, I did not consider her illness could be connected to other diagnostic entities, such as neuroborreliosis, erythema migrans disease, erythema chronicum migrans, Bannwoth's syndrome, Garin-Bujadoux syndrome, Montauk knee, or an ar�thritis outbreak in Connecticut With time, the connec�tion between Borrelia burgdorferi infections and men�tal illnesses such as depression became increasingly apparent.
In my database, depression is the most common psychiatric syndrome associated with late stage Lyme dis�ease. Although depression is common in any chronic illness, it is more preva�lent with Lyme patients than in most other chronic illnesses. There appears to be multiple causes, including a num�ber of psychological and physical fac�tors.
From a psychological standpoint, many Lyme patients are psychologically overwhelmed by the large multitude of symptoms associated with this disease. Most medical conditions primarily affect only one part of the body, or only one organ system.
As a result, patients singularly afflicted can do activities which allow them to take a vacation from their dis�ease. In contrast, multi-system diseases such as Lyme, depression, chronic Lyme disease can penetrate into multiple as�pects of a person's life. It is difficult to escape for periodic recovery. In many cases, this results in a vi�cious cycle of disappointment, grief; chronic stress, and demoralization.
It should be noted that depression is not only caused by psychological factors. Physical dysfunction can directly cause depression. Endo�crine disorders such as hypothyroidism, which cause depression, are sometimes associated with Lyme disease and further strengthen the link be�tween Lyme disease and depression.
The most complex link is the association between Lyme disease and central nervous system functioning. Lyme encephalopathy results in the dysfunction of a number of different mental func�tions. This in turn results in cognitive, emotional, vegetative, and/or neurological pathology.
Although all Lyme disease patients demonstrate many similar symptoms, no two patients present with the exact same symptom profile.
Other mental syndromes associated with late state Lyme disease, such as attention deficit disorder, panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, etc., may also contribute to the develop�ment of depression. Dysfunction of other specific pathways may more directly cause depression.
The link between encephalopathy and depression has been more thoroughly studied in other illnesses, such as stroke. The neura1 injury from a stroke causes neural dysfunction that causes depression. Injury to specific brain regions has different statisti�cal correlation with the development of depression.
Once depression or other psychiatric syndromes occur with Lyme disease, treating them effectively improves other Lyme disease symptoms as well and prevents the development of more severe conse�quences, such as suicide.
*********This is where he starts to talk specifically about lyme and suicide.********
Suicidal tendencies are common in neurop�sychiatric Lyme patients. There have been a number of completed suicides in Lyme disease patients and one published account of a combined homicide/suicide.
Suicide accounts for a significant number of the fatalities associated with Lyme disease. In my database, suicidal tendencies occur in approxi�mately 1/3 of Lyme encephalopathy patients.
Homicidal tendencies are less common, and oc�curred in about 15% of these patients. Most of the Lyme patients displaying homicidal tendencies also showed suicidal tendencies.
In contrast, the incident of suicidal tendencies is comparatively lower in individuals suffering from other chronic illnesses, such as cancer, cardiac disease, and diabetes.
To better understand the link between Lyme disease and suicide, let's first look at an overview of suicide.
Chronic suicide risk is particularly associ�ated with an inability to appreciate the pleasure of life (anhedonia). People tolerate pain without becoming suicidal, but an inability to appreciate the pleasure of life highly correlates with chronic suicidal risk.
Of course, there are many other factors that also contribute to chronic risk. For example, one study demonstrated that 50% of patients with low levels of a serotonin metabolite (5HIAA) in the cerebrospinal fluid committed suicide within two years.
Apart from factors which contribute to chronic suicidal risk, there are also factors which trigger an actual attempt, i.e.; a recent loss, acute intoxication, unemployment, recent rejection, or failure.
There is much impairment from Lyme disease which increases suicidal risk factors. However, suicidal tendencies associated with Lyme disease follow a somewhat different pattern than is seen in other suicidal patients.
In Lyme patients, suicide is difficult to predict. At�tempts are sometimes associated with intrusive, aggressive, horrific images. Some attempts are very determined and serious. Although a few attempts may be planned in advance, most are of an impul�sive nature.
Both suicidal and homicidal tendencies can be part of a Jarish-Herxheimer reaction. I cannot emphasize enough the behavioral significance of the Jarish-Herxheimer reaction. As part of this reaction, I have seen and heard numer�ous patients describe becoming suddenly aggressive without warning.
I can appreciate skepticism regarding this statement. How can this be ex�plained? Like many other symptoms seen in Lyme disease, it challenges our medical capabilities. In view of this observation, I advise that antibiotic doses be increased very gradually when suicidal or homicidal tendencies are part of the illness.
Although I have discussed the significance of depression and suicide associated with Lyme disease, I would like to treatment does help.
Combined treatment which addresses both the mental and somatic components of the illness significantly improves the overall prognosis. This is supported by clinical observation and laboratory research showing antidepressant treatment improves immunocompetence.
It has been demonstrated in vitro that antidepressants which act on the serotonin 1A receptor (most antidepres�sants) increase natural killer cell activity.
In addition, there are undoubtedly other indirect effects on the immune system through other neural or neuroendurocrine and autonomic pathways. To state this more concisely - antidepressants can result in antibiotic effects, and antibiotics can have antidepressant effects.
Most depression and suicidal tendencies often respond to treatment. Suicide is a permanent response to a temporary problem. Many people who survive very serious attempts go on to lead productive and gratifying lives. Suffering can be reduced. The joy of life can be restored. Needless death can be prevented.
Don't give up hope. There are answers, solutions, and assistance. There is life after Lyme.
lymetwister
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19590
posted
I want to thank everyone for your replies. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't alone in all of this. The Herx can be so bad. Not only do I get depressed, but my LLMD wanted to go after my Babs and Bart first as my anxiety seems to be off the charts.
What I don't understand is why the anxiety seems to be getting worse with all of the treatment I am doing. I can be like I can't keep my eyes open as I'm so fatigue, yet have gut wrenching anxiety going on at the same time.
Can someone explain this to me ?
Just when you think you couldn't be any more sedated, yet you feel like your heart is gonna jump out of your chest. How is this possible ?
Posts: 1227 | From District of Columbia | Registered: Mar 2009
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I have the same problems, issues, feelings and thoughts.
I don't have an answer, but you're not alone.
Posts: 322 | From Venice, CA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
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TerryK,
Great letter from that doctor. Thanks so much.
----------
Lymetwister,
is your liver support adequate?
I always ask that as I think the liver is often asked to do more than it can and when it can't all systems are overwhelmed.
Without a well functioning liver, depression is absolutely going to happen. When toxins (from lyme, etc) rage in our body, the "flight or fight" adrenal reactions happen. Our bodies are in shock and the fear cycle can spin way out of synch.
If you are sedated from Rx sedatives, often, that further stresses the liver and the cycle moves to a new high.
Check your sedative meds and see if they are metabolized through the liver pathway Cytochrome P-450. If so, that might be a key as that pathway, when stressed or overwhelmed, can produce excess porphyrins and that creates lots of problems.
Liver support may help but may not be enough. You might need to decrease or limit the Rx that use the C P-450 pathway.
posted
my child has dealt with what's described in the above article, usually correlating with severe SPECT scan findings.
he has made a few attempts. it can be an extremely dangerous symptom with a physiological cause (as well as other out-of-control emotions).
it is not in his nature when he has more blood in his brain. i think there can be two different presentations: suicidality related to dealing with chronic illness, and suicidality reactive to the illness.
we have experienced the latter, and it is almost totally without warning. one instance was what has been referred to as part of a "neuropsychiatric herxheimer" response.
please be careful to monitor yourself with your doctor and/or a lyme-literate psychiatrist.
i myself have experienced the high anxiety with body sedation, when i was very ill and in treatment, and i can't explain it other than to again point to the physical imbalance that can occur in the brain due to chemical imbalance, blood flow, or inflammation issues.
hang in there. it somehow helped me to learn more about these symptoms as i went through them.
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
"Don't even think about killing yourself because you will have the same emotions, but you won't have a body to work them out in"
I see the point you are trying to make but it is the sick body that has brought people to this point.
I am hanging in there the best I can for my kids as I grew up with a mother that died when I was 3 with cancer.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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Vermont_Lymie
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posted
People who have lyme and are in treatment for it, including many here on lymenet, are the strongest, toughest and most amazing folks I have had the pleasure of "meeting."
Our tenacity, perseverence and generosity in the face of the pain and suffering that TBD can inflict is miraculous.
It does, really, get better with treatment.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Mo, You got me thinking here about the latter that you said your son has experienced. On Friday I woke up in a great mood feeling good, had breakast, meds and went to brush my teeth and all the sudden I looked down at my arms and felt almost disconnected from my body.
Then when looking around the room I could see things but they looked slightly distorted and I felt this overwhelming suicidal urge like nothing I have ever felt before.
If I was home alone I'm not sure...It was very scary! I thankfully was not alone and immediately took a lorezapam and made myself go to sleep.
-------------------- If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!
posted
While I have been in so much pain , death would have been a comfort. I believe in reincarnation and I'll be damed if I'm going through this crap again in the next life time.So I will suffer on and get this crap done with in this lifetime. Just my thoughts, Terri
Posts: 203 | From tipp city oh.45371 | Registered: Jul 2003
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jt345
Unregistered
posted
About 5 years ago this summer I flew off into a lyme rage . I left my Wife at church ,drove home,went upstairs and put a 12 gauge shootgun slug in the chamber. I had it in My mouth,when I realized I could not leave Nan,with such a awful site,when she returned home.
Since then I sometimes catch myself,saying out loud I wish I was dead. But that is the easy way out. I have messed up enough.
I can not leave Nan knowing I took my own life. jt345 appleseed
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posted
When things are at their worst, just knowing in the back of my mind that this can all be ended is very comforting. That day hasn't come yet, and it may never, but knowing it is possible sometimes gives me the strength to go on.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Hello, this is Mrs Scampi's daughter Kay, I am 18 years old and have tried to end my life 3 times twice with pills and once with alchohol. Sadly enough it happened and i cannot take it back but when your me and you lost all your friends your life and can never get out of bed how can you think about living. I am often very depressed very much so. I feel like most of time noone can understand me and the pain that I am in. No doctors in my area believe in chronic lyme nor co infectors. Just know that you are not alone, it's so hard to keep going when you have nothing good to look forward to, well at least when your herxing that is how you feel.
Stay Strong.!
PS if you ever need to talk i am always there. [email protected]Posts: 200 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2007
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glm1111
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posted
jarjar,
I wasn't in any way discounting yours or anyone elses pain and suffering with this horrific disease. I too wanted to find a way out at times.
I posted that phrase because someone said that to me yrs ago and it just stuck with me. It always worked liked a mantra (trigger) for me to not even think about it.
So, I guess I thought maybe it would work for others the same way. So sorry you lost your mom at such a young age. Please hang in there.
I am seeing a big difference from where I was at. I was on morphine, now I don't need any pain meds. It really does change for the better,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Do you guys realize how healthy this is to get out in the open?
Best of my memory their use to be a suicide hot line number to call on this site. It was very appropriate for people suffering on this site.
I think we all go thru periods of being lost with this disease. Currenty I have hope but I know exactly how people feel that are going thru the deepest point of this disease. We all have been there at one point or another.
I hope we can always open up and bring this topic up when needed. No need to pretend it is sunshine and lollipops.
Gael I will pm you.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jar, how tragic to lose your mom at age 3; my niece was 11 on my sister; another nephew was youngest 13 when his mom died of early-onset alzheimer's .... but toddler age...uffda
terryk, that was outstanding dr. letter!!
gael i think? yes, i came up with the 1-800 suicide no. one night when 1 of our members alerted me to one member who was planning on committing suicide!
boy, i checked my local phone book, and nothing was showing; called my police station and they gave me something, who referred me then to the HOTLINE SUICIDE NO.
i got it to the member who sent me an alert; she got it to the person in question.
PHONE NO. iS IN MY NEWBIE PACKAGE LINKS along with another post, i think from melanie reber who added additional details i'd never read before.
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posted
Through twenty-eight years of severe pain, I have fantasized about suicide many times. At times I have planned it and once I even wrote letters, but I am still here.
For me, the fantasy gives me a choice and so far, I have chose living. I can't bear the thought of how much pain I would be causing those who have loved and supported me all these years.
Also, once you have kids, it really takes suicide off the table.
-------------------- "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain." Anonymous Posts: 450 | From California | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
You'll excuse me if I don't applaud all of the suicide talk. While its healthy to get repressed feelings and emotions out in the open, to dwell on suicide, and talk openly how you have even thuought about how you would do it is upsetting, and can be confusing to those who are already borderline. I don't believe that its normal to think of ending your life. It may be normal to want pain to end, but to take your own life is not something I would ever condone, or would talk about in this type of forum. People do need to express their feelings for the sake of getting help, but I would hate for anyone to read some of these posts and think its ok to think that way.
When I was at my sickest, prior to diagnosis, I too thought of suicide. But, it was only because I wanted the pain to end, nothing more. I truly love living, life, family, nature, way too many things to ever go through the final act, especially with so much faith and love in God that there is a reason for everything, and I won't know the reason why Ive suffered so much these past few years till Ive finally left this world, according to Gods time, not mine.
From a physiological standpoint, theres no doubt that a person comtemplating suicide is having neurological issues, chemical imbalances to create these thoughts. Part of it may be the toxin releases in the brain, the meningitis/encephalitis swelling, destruction of brain areas, and/or the spark of the death of a loved one, unemployment, foreclosure, divorce, chronic illness, etc, etc...
Im rambling..
I think the point I wanted to make is that no matter how bad it gets, God will never give you more then you can handle. Just read what JOB went through, and realize that you are strong, and can endure much more then you can ever realize. But you have to have faith, faith that things will get better. All it takes is a brief moment of peace, pain free, to know that you can get better, you can recover. You have to have that positive attitude and be mentally strong for your body to listen and physically heal. It starts with the mind, and the body follows... The fact that you can have even a minute of peace, no pain, tells you that you can then have 2 minutes, 5 minutes, an hour, a day, a month, etc, etc... But you have to believe...
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TerryK
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posted
Wimenin wrote: It may be normal to want pain to end, but to take your own life is not something I would ever condone, or would talk about in this type of forum.
While I do understand your concerns, this is a support forum and we are here to support each other in whatever way is needed.
I don't believe anyone here is condoning suicide or saying it is OK to think that way. No one wants to think this way but it is a fact that some of us do feel suicidal.
I think it's helpful to know that one is not alone in feeling this way because part of living with this kind of depression is the feeling that you are completely alone and some kind of freak for having these thoughts.
It helps to understand that it is part of the illness, not part of who we are. It is the illness and there is help. As the article I posted states, getting the depression under control can boost the immune system and make it easier to get the infections under control.
It helps to know that others have had these feelings and lived through them and go on to have good lives.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Just judging how I've seen suicide threads posted here recently I would suggest it is brought back as a published number easy for everyone to see.
If someone is having a tough time they may not bother to go digging around in a newbie pack for a number.
I remember the first time I came to this site I saw it and thought how approriate to have this for people that have suffered so much.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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cottonbrain
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Member # 13769
posted
i dont think it is healthy to dismiss people's suffering as "feeling sorry for yourself" or not "normal," as two of the posters above stated.
People are hurting, really hurting, and it is moral and compassionate to speak about it.
On the contrary, what is Amoral and "evil" (to borrow the poster's word) is to deny the realities of people's pain.
Communication engenders understanding. I would hope.
Posts: 1173 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
to add, it can be life-saving for a patient to understand their own suffering by talking about it, and also in some cases to understand that there can be a physiological, organic cause to these kinds of neuropsychiatric symptoms.
and to then understand that it is treatable, and also to watch for these signs and symptoms as they go through treatment/recovery.
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
As hard as I tried, I could not "will" my dark dark depression away. It was a shock to me because I have such a strong will and figured I could do anything that I set my mind to.
It took anti-depressants to bring me out of it. Don't get me wrong, positive thinking is important. Trying to rise above the depression is important but the most important thing you can do for yourself is to get help and that often requires help for an endogenous depression. Something to help normalize brain chemistry.
It is not a matter of one feeling sorry for themselves. Serious depression is a brain chemistry issue.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Yes, at my lowest low it certainly crossed my mind. When I was so so sick and doctors would try to tell me I was okay - the thought of living the rest of my life in such a very sick state with no relief or help was so terrifying, death sounded like a relief.
At those times, I told my husband I would try to hang on until our 3 kids were raised. Things are not as low right now, still crappy, but better! TS
Posts: 566 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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posted
lymeparfait your post reminded me of how Tom Cruise got in so much trouble on the Today show a few years ago discussing depression.
Telling people that are bedridden, exhausted and full of pain that they are just feeling sorry for themselves?
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jar, per your request, here is what i just sent lou bachman asking him to make this a sticky feature at top of medical; thanks for suggestion. xox
lou bachman, please make this a sticky at top of MEDICAL please since many folks have been thinking and talking about suicide lately. thanks lou! [group hug] [kiss]
8-7-06 NATIONWIDE SUICIDE HOTLINE
1.800.784.2433 now please! I *********************************
f you are feeling suicidal, please call the SUICIDE HOTLINE. We care about you. bettyg
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline pineapple LymeNet Contributor Member # 11904
posted 19-01-2008 03:09 AM
. Get Help ! If you or someone you know needs emotional help, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline during a crisis.
You can reach the Lifeline by dialing 1-800-273-TALK (8255) . - -
Who Should Call?
- Anyone, but especially those who feel sad, hopeless, or suicidal
- Family and friends who are concerned about a loved one who may be experiencing these feelings
-Anyone interested in suicide prevention, treatment, and service referrals
Details About the Lifeline
*The service is free and confidential *The hotline is staffed by trained counselors *Available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week *Information about support services that can help you
TTY Users If you are a TTY user, please use our TTY number: 1-800-799-4TTY (4889)
. Posts: 339 | From nowhere | Registered: May 2007 |
pineapple LymeNet Contributor Member # 11904 posted 19-01-2008 03:13 AM .
What Are The Warning Signs For Suicide?
Seek help as soon as possible by contacting a mental health professional or by calling the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK if you or someone you know exhibits any of the following signs:
-Threatening to hurt or kill oneself or talking about wanting to hurt or kill oneself
-Looking for ways to kill oneself by seeking access to firearms, available pills, or other means
-Talking or writing about death, dying, or suicide when these actions are out of the ordinary for the person
-Feeling hopeless
-Feeling rage or uncontrolled anger or seeking revenge
-Acting reckless or engaging in risky activities - seemingly without thinking
-Feeling trapped - like there's no way out
-Increasing alcohol or drug use
-Withdrawing from friends, family, and society
-Feeling anxious, agitated, or unable to sleep or sleeping all the time
-Experiencing dramatic mood changes
-Seeing no reason for living or having no sense of purpose in life
pineapple LymeNet Contributor Member # 11904 posted 19-01-2008 03:18 AM
What if Someone I Know Needs Help?
Looking out for friends and loved ones is an important part of preventing suicide.
You can call the Lifeline to speak with a crisis worker on behalf of someone you are concerned about.
The crisis workers have access to local resources, and can help you identify ways to get help to your loved ones. So call 1-800-273-TALK today to help save a life.
To find out more about the difference you can make in a friend or loved one's life - visit
Here Are Some Other Ways To Be Helpful to Someone Who Is Threatening Suicide:*
Be direct. Talk openly and matter-of-factly about suicide.
Be willing to listen. Allow expressions of feelings. Accept the feelings.
Be non-judgmental. Don't debate whether suicide is right or wrong, or whether feelings are good or bad. Don't lecture on the value of life.
Get involved. Become available. Show interest and support.
Don't dare him or her to do it.
Don't act shocked. This will put distance between you.
Don't be sworn to secrecy. Seek support.
Offer hope that alternatives are available but do not offer glib reassurance.
Take action. Remove means, such as guns or stockpiled pills.
Get help from persons or agencies specializing in crisis intervention and suicide prevention.
Be Aware of Feelings:*
Many people at some time in their lives think about suicide.
Most decide to live because they eventually come to realize that the crisis is temporary and death is permanent.
On the other hand, people having a crisis sometimes perceive their dilemma as inescapable and feel an utter loss of control.
These are some of the feelings and thoughts they experience:
-Can't stop the pain -Can't think clearly -Can't make decisions -Can't see any way out -Can't sleep, eat or work -Can't get out of depression -Can't make the sadness go away -Can't see a future without pain -Can't see themselves as worthwhile -Can't get someone's attention -Can't seem to get control
Dr. Phil Helps Lifeline Prevent Suicide on YouTube
February 11, 2009 - Dr. Phil encourages people to call 1-800-273-TALK in a new video posted on the Lifeline YouTube Channel:
lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
doxy makes me this way
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
I would like to reiterate what some others have so eloquently stated...
This is a brain disease. In other words, when we are in this state of illness, our brains are NOT acting in a normal manner. And this can no more be controlled than the myriad of other symptoms that come and go at will.
Therefore, to try to use our normal coping skills during this time is futile, because those skills have disappeared along with our true selves.
To me, THAT was the worst part of the whole thing...I had lost myself, and could not, no matter how much I wanted to...will THAT self to return. That loss was so great to me that it was overwhelming all other thoughts.
It took time and proper treatment, and the expert help of professionals and close friends who clearly saw what I was going through and intervened to help me through it.
Logically, I knew what was happening, as I had read all the literature and even had posted it for others. But in that state of illness, logic takes a back seat.
It is my opinion that we really need to understand that distinction, and not inadvertently dismiss or blame the patient for not behaving as they normally would in a healthy state.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Hello everyone , it's been awhile since I've posted . Unfotunately I have thought of suicide many times but it has gotten to the point that I know I won't do it . Now I just hope that if things don't get better that God will just take me . No more money for treatment , the economy has pretty much killed business , I've lost my health insurance , whats next? I'm still fighting the fight , but I'm getting pretty tired . Sorry to be so whiney , as I know many have it alot rougher than me ,guess I just thought you all would understand .Thanks for listening !
Buckfever
Posts: 97 | From West Chester ,Pa. | Registered: Aug 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
About 2/3rds of patients. 1/3rd thinks it over seriously rather than a fleeting consideration. This is based on reading reports and listening to a broad range of patients.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: "Don't even think about killing yourself because you will have the same emotions, but you won't have a body to work them out in"
What if that's true? Do we really want to take that chance?
Personally, I think if Lyme Disease and Neurological illnesses have taught me anything, it's that everything you think or feel you are, is a biological function, imprinted and processed via machinery.
Once the machinery is broken, so are you. I've also learned that "You" is a very fluid concept primarily defined by a collective grouping of ideas about oneself, via the reflection of prior experiences through the sensory pathways (eyes, ears, etc) and then "acted out in a roll" via the brain, thus -- giving rise to personality.
Personalities are easily distorted or changed by biological illness or destruction of tissues.
I don't have to look any further than Alzheimer's patients, Stroke victims, head trauma, severe Lyme Encephalitis, and a variety of other infectious diseases or circumstances that destroy the brain to know that.
What I note is that people upon losing their mind -- literally -- resort to patterns of behavior or thinking that hinge entirely on which parts of the mind are left working and deficits or absence of function via those that are gone.
Just my observation. I suspect the only place "you" go to when the machine stops working is the same place any idea or collection of thoughts go prior to being observed or thought (such as before birth). They remain in illusionary pieces, scattered without organization.
Without an amygadala, hypothamus, without a variety of emotional centers of the brain, emotions evaporate.
I believe everything can be explained and that everything that is considered supernatural is merely Nature, not presently understood -- and or creative imagination.
Like watching a magician perform an act, it can seem quite real to those observing who lack the ability to see behind the curtain or facade, yet, the lack of understanding can lead to all sorts of conclusions that aren't based in reality, but merely imagination, hope, or belief.
[ 04-01-2009, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: METALLlC BLUE ]
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
One more thing. Suicidal thoughts are as familiar to Lyme Disease as light sensitivity or personality changes, or abnormal emotional responses (overreaction, rage, irritability, low frustration tolerance).
It is unwise to suppress the reality of suicidal idealization as with any other symptom. If you're experiencing it and it's severely impairing your quality of life (just like some have severe heart problems, or experience ongoing seizures) -- then ask for help and tell us about your feelings.
You certainly will find thousands of patients, hundreds of thousands in-fact, who have thought about suicide. If you're thinking it, it means you need to talk about it with someone who understands and who you trust.
Like any symptom, we can't help you treat it, or your illness, if we aren't aware of the impacts. Those afflicted with primarily psychiatric symptoms (Like myself), require different supportive and symptomatic treatment than someone with debilitating nerve pain or arthritic pain.
Suicidal thoughts, feelings and behavior has multiple variables involved. Some we can help alleviate, but we can't do that if you don't talk openly about it.
Sometimes talk therapy with a friend or a counselor can relieve just enough stress to lower the threshold of the suicidal tendency.
Sometimes the biology of the infection in the brain is so strong that significant medication intervention is needed, or alteration to the antibiotics or other treatment modality.
Sometimes changes in philosophy or belief, or understanding -- which are underpinnings of character or ideas about who you are, think you are, or who you want to be -- can reduce suicidal thoughts, as you attempt to grasp control and meaning in your suffering.
Those who find meaning, set goals or have other methods of coping, are less inclined to end their lives, but it doesn't mean they won't end their life no matter how much support they receive.
If treatment isn't working and all options have been explored and the person still wants to live but simply just can't do it anymore, I'm hard pressed to condemn them or guilt them into survival. I won't lie them.
You can't get blood from a stone, everything in this reality we exist in can eventually be broken. Human beings are not immortal, indestructible, nor do we have eternal capacity to endure suffering.
Even the strongest iron or diamond can be broken if enough pressure is applied, so don't be quick to assume you know the truths of other people's experiences.
I've known people who went to the ends of the earth -- literally, for treatment and help.
They cried, begged, prayed, meditated, medicated, herbed, tinctured, and went to psychics, pastors, healers, medical doctors of all varieties and spent every single penny they had and exploited every relationship they could to save their own life until everyone abandoned them. They did everything "right" and still lost.
You can do your best and still lose. That's the fact, not the illusion. And the reality is, you often feel like giving up even when you still have a few more feet that you can walk.
I'm here to help you walk those few more feet. Once we've done that, I encourage you to walk another foot and another -- we do it together until the war ends -- sometimes we're the victor and sometime's we're the victim. That's......truth.
The sickest patients are a puppet on a string, controlled on a marionette with Lyme Disease lifting your hands and dangling your feet.
Guilting someone into surviving isn't sane or realistic. Providing options is. If you wish to use an illusion and lie to yourself to survive, I won't stop you or try to convince you if my opinion isn't requested, but if you ask for my opinion, I will tell you what I think honestly.
[ 04-01-2009, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: METALLlC BLUE ]
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Very well said Mike. I would just like to add... that sometimes it is the very medication we are taking interacting with the illness that causes suicidal tendencies.
AT those times, we need to STOP the meds and allow their effect to leave the body entirely before our minds can begin to become clear again.
Many common meds that we are prescribed have these properties, and while it is not consistent with all of course, it does help to know which ones to watch out for in advance.
Rocephin, Mepron, Flagyl and Rifampin are only a few that readily come to mind.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
buckfever,
thanks for coming on and replying what you are going thru with the type of job you have, etc.
some wonderful statements, and i wished i could have read all of mike's but can't get thru the long paragraphs ... my brain just shuts off after so many lines unfortunately! darn this neuro lyme of 39 yrs.!!
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Betty, I'll fix it so you can read it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Mike,
What you wrote is very deep, profound and intelligent. I have felt for a long time that out bodys are like computers and that we are spiritual beings in a physical body.
So is this life just a mere illusion? If that's true why does it feel so real? I do believe that we have thoughts and emotions (energy in motion)and they do not die with the physical body.
Enjoyed your writing and the way you put things into perspective.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Buckfever do not ever apologize for being whiney on a thread like this.
We are all on the same path and so many of us know what you are going thru. I recently went thru a divorce not too long ago on top of major herxing but finally pulled out of the hole.
We are all here for each other so please lean on us whenever you need to guy.
Mike that was a helluv a great post thanks for taking the time to share that with us. Very well thought out.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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you just encapsulated everything we have been living with. i'm going to save that.
mo
-------------------- life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage -- anais nin Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: So is this life just a mere illusion? If that's true why does it feel so real?
This life -- in my opinion -- is an illusion from any given perspective. Like the laws of Newton, and the theory of relativity, the atoms and matter that participate in the dance of order within our bodies are now easily explained through our understanding thanks to science.
Science has -- over time -- explained how the body and brain work. They are one, not two. We've mastered the technology to create artificial intelligence, to feed the entire world population and end reliance on fossil fuel technologies tomorrow if we willed it to be.
We're now aware that our senses are not a true reflection of what actually is present in our reality. We have a very narrow spectrum of light which we "see" -- yet there is a very large spectrum which we don't but that which still impacts us.
With calcium, phosphorus, potassium, nitrogen, carbon, our bodies are united with the ground we walk -- they are the same.
We take in air, and exhale, serving our purpose in the larger environment we depend. Nothing which we are, is "us" but rather everything which is constantly coming and going.
We are made new again over and over again, as we exchange protein, minerals, and elements with other animals, or plants. Without air, we die, without food we die. There is no real separation between you and I.
We are one process acting out various roles, putting on a show of sorts for no one in particular. We are simply a playful game, changing constantly in the face of the available building blocks. Like the writing of Emily Dickinson, what was once 26 letters is now a masterful pattern, attracting our attention for it's relevancy.
This alphabet has come and gone and come and gone, expanding, and then collapsing upon itself. This is the breath of the universe. Construct, then Deconstruct.
Everything depends on everything else for a happening to be perceived. As a consequence of knowing this fact, when you look up at the stars at night, you are seeing yourself. It is through your eyes that the universe is "awake and conscious" -- capable of self reflection upon the one, by creating the illusion of two.
Ultimately, you are not and will not be separated from this process. The illusion is that "you" are an individual, when the reality is you are merely your thoughts about you, about what you've previously perceived. When you see another human being, you are looking at yourself.
So what is the meaning then of existing if nothing "matters? and all is ultimately an act?" What is the point if everything we think is simply an illusion governed by mechanistic laws, and nerve, skin, and faith?
The point is that as a mirror, you can choose which parts of yourself you'd like to demonstrate and have manifest on stage. What do you want to create and who do you want to be? You have some control, you have some say as long as the machine "works". Will you, can you -- use your illusion?
Pain, suffering, pleasure, excitement-- no matter how serious, or how absurd -- is simply a happening.
It feels real, because you feel, see, hear, smell, taste -- because you perceive separation and can "sense" the happening. When you no longer perceive, there will continue to be trees falling, but there will be no sound without a reference point capable of identifying it as a sound.
Without an in-tact spinal cord, the pain one feels in their toes when cut with a knife will continue to resonate as an impulse, but there is no longer a "perceiver" since the signal is not received and thus it's as if it no longer is happening for you.
The damage done, and the impulse is reality, yet it is painless, it is "senseless" if you don't "know" you're being injured, you won't know it's "happening".
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
"with calcium, phosphorus, potassium, nitrogen, carbon, our bodies are united with the ground we walk--they are the same"
Mike, do you understand why the planets have so much influence over us, going so far as to determine what parts of our bodies are affected? (medical astrology) This is determined according to our individual charts.
A friend of mine is an astrologer and he seems to think most everything is fated,(including diseases) determined partly by harmonic degrees of ones astrological chart.
Thanks,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
Gael, Clearly some ailments have been proven to be related to other bodies in the sky. We know one in particular that triggers a variety of "behaviors" indirectly. Melatonin production and reduction based on the circadian patterns is an obvious one. We know the gravity of the sun plays an important role in how light travels to and from earth. We know the tilt of the earth can decrease levels of light to certain areas of the planet, thus affecting behavior changes in some people in the form of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Depression, irritability, and other changes in personality are noted.
There are a variety of effects that are thought to take place collectively on behavior. The differences between astrology and astronomy is where your friend and I would take different paths though. The term fated would also suggest that something creative was in motion, but from the point of view of scientific understanding, we've come to understand that things aren't so much created, as they are adapting form to fit function. That specific combinations of matterr relative to other matter in specific environments are either at an advantage or disadvantage to maintain their form given their qualities (as Darwin noted).
I'm getting too far off the subject here, so I'll wrap this back around. Lyme patients are often home bound and light sensitive. Chronic absence of light from the sun, or artificial lights that minic the sun can lead to suicidal behavior. This is an additional burden that Lyme patients experience. It is important to get some form of light for 15 minutes to 20 minutes per day, preferably without sun glasses on and plenty of skin exposure, hands, arms, shoulders, legs etc. For those too ill to go outside or to get adequate light, a sun-lamp could be useful, and of course supplementation for various deficiencies are good.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Beware the Mepron!
I actually tied feeling truly suicidal to starting Mepron at full dose. It didn't happen when I started with 1/2 doses the first day.
It was a good thing that I realized that Mepron can cause severe depression and was able to pull out of it. It was very scary.
There have been many times that I've felt hopeless, worthless, tired & frustrated. If not for the love, empathy & understanding I've gotten from my dear friends on this board, I don't know what may have become of me.
There are many people out there who are going through this. We all know these feelings at different times through illness and recovery (and relapses & recovery ).
At times when I feel strong, I fight for those who can't, try to do whatever research & activism efforts I can and be a shoulder for whoever I can because there are times when I'm the "low man" on the board and others carry me.
I am so grateful for this board and all of the wonderful people who make it what it is.
Lymetwister, you're not alone. I do believe that it's perfectly normal, when faced with what we deal with, to feel that way from time to time.
The key is to remember that there are people out there fighting and doing research and new things ARE being learned. It's only a matter of time before SOMEONE straightens out this mess!
If we give up hope & die, IDSA wins. If no one makes noise or fights with Frank Pallone, what chance do we stand? If we stop searching for answers, who can we help?
I've been told that crying sheds ketes. Maybe every once in a while we need a good cry to get rid of some of the excess.
Remember that this was not always your life and believe that it will not be this way forever. Believe that it WILL get better, IT MUST!, and when that time comes, you will look back & say "I can't believe I actually felt like that."
That day will come, believe in it. That's what keeps me going, that and the good people on Lymenet (and some who are no longer on Lymenet, but nonetheless still fellow Lymies who care about me).
Someone had mentioned that it is a "brain disease". This is SO true. When the chemicals in your brain get messed up, it can cause awful depression. The thing to remember is "This too shall pass!" When you wake up tomorrow you could have an entirely different perspective and wonder, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?!!!"
There's lots of great info on Lyme & the brain on www.thehumansideofLyme.net and a link to e-mail the author of the site. She's been through this herself and understands.
When I was in my second relapse and my LL?IDMD didn't seem to care, my LLMD seemed to have abandoned me and my marriage was falling apart, I reached out to her. She pulled me up, gave me strength, hope & direction.
She also understands the Lyme brain chemical issues we face and the complexities of treating those imbalances.
She also understands the psychological abuse that many Lymies have suffered, at the hands of ignorant doctors, in their search for answers.
I made myself cry, thinking about how wonderful she is. I should give a call or drop a note to thank her & see how she's doing.
Don't ever let anyone make you feel like you're wrong to feel something you're feeling, just because they haven't felt the same way.
Maybe we're not ALL the same and don't ALL have the same life experiences, but you'll always find plenty of people here that will identify with you & yours.
hugs & prayers, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
A HELL OF A LOT MORE now that Dr. L. is closing her Lyme practice.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I am right now... I am sick of suffering everyday.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
tracy, dr. L is closing her practice; what state please?
what's her specialty to help me find her in our lists since city names can't be given.
WHEN so i can note on our llmd lists... and notify the others too.
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posted
unexpectedills is there one symptom that is harder then others on you? I know not to long ago I was in a nose dive from being so exhausted but pulled out of it by raising my glutathione level.
Sorry to hear things are tough right now.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I sure haven't been posting as often as I used to, but that's because there have been a myriad of changes in my life...
Lost loves, never ending hospitalizations, a swift downward spiral into self-destructive behavior...
I've been there. I think my first attempt was in June of 2006. My boyfriend at the time walked in on me at the kitchen table with a knife, an empty bottle of pills, and a half-eaten bean burrito. I learned then exactly how to manipulate the mental health professionals into believing that I was fine.
For years now, that's what I have done... I get really sick, begin to shut down, attempt self harm or suicide and wiggle my way out of situations. If I can't wiggle out right away, I offer to go in for evaluations voluntarily, knowing that at some point I'll find the weakest link and be able to manipulate my way out of the situation.
One mental health professional actually recognized what I was doing while I was inpatient, and still discharged me.
I don't lie anymore. When I'm having a Lyme fit, I get in my car with various bottles of pills and drive... I call select few who I think can help me - because I do recognize that the real me would never want to ruin such a precious life, no matter how terrible it may seem - and I tell them what I'm up to. Sometimes I tell them where I am, sometimes I don't.
When I hear a siren, my friends know that calls are cut short because I disconnect my cell phone battery and drive away again. I run until I'm so out of breath and broken down that I have no energy to harm myself. Then I ask for help.
It's happened so many times that I feel stupid at the end of every fit. I can never believe that I'm strong enough to keep myself from downing the bottle of pills on my passenger seat, but not strong enough to openly ask for help before loading up the car and leaving.
When my friends try to talk to me about what they could have done differently, I always tell them that I need to just be held down and hugged, but in all actuality, it'd be like trying to cram a shark into a goldfish tank because I'm always filled with so much rage.
This January was really rough. Bad news kept piling on top of me and I'd been drinking and partying way more than I should have been... My judgement was impaired and I tried to go to a friend for support, but no one is able to drop everything and focus on a single human being at the drop of a hat.
I drove off... Parked my car on the side of the road, and started popping pills. I kept track. I kept close track... I knew that if I took a certain amount of this or that I'd simply fall asleep and maybe things would get better when I woke up.
My friend turned me in to the local authorities, I was taken to the local hospital and manipulated everyone into believing that I was OK. I must have thought and talked about attempting suicide every day for a full week. I was surrounded by county sheriff's at one point - I think there were 4 cars total, and able to manipulate them into believing that I was mentally sound. I had a paramedic knock on my car window (after noticing the alcohol and pills) and I somehow managed to get out of going in.
It seems like suicidal tendencies increase when I'm put on any form of antidepressant. I think it's because I always picture the commercials where people are running through fields of flowers smiling while taking the medications, and I wonder why I don't feel that way. I put a lot of pressure on myself. So much, that when I let myself down, I figure it's time to go.
As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that I've never spoken so candidly about what has gone on mentally. I mention breakdowns, I mention that I'm not mentally capable of completing something, but I never openly say it's because I'm struggling to keep myself alive.
That's what I do on a daily basis... I try to be more of who I was and want to be, and less of who the Lyme makes me. I just took a month and a half break from medications - after a 2 week stay in the hospital - and I think I came out of the break with a much better perspective on this disease and the way my body and mind deal with it.
The biggest thing I discovered is that you don't know how strong you are until strength is all you have left.
I'd love to say that I'll never be in the dark places I've been again, but I realize that because of my own negligence I am now a lot sicker than I should be. I realize getting better is not going to be easy. It never was... I realize that there'll be many more long, dark nights and there may be one that I don't come out of, but I know how much I look forward to the future these days and how disappointed I would be if I didn't fulfill every last one of the goals I've set for myself.
Future... A new option for me. I realized during my break that I'd been living in anticipation of dying. I've come so close, medically speaking, that I couldn't help but think every night when I closed my eyes they wouldn't open again in the morning... Right out of the gate, when I was diagnosed, the doctors matter of factly told me that I was not going to survive my stay. That's what I've thought the entire time I've had Lyme - that I wouldn't survive my stay. I've thrown out the earlier calculations that I wouldn't make it past 30, and at my 27th birthday dinner, I proposed a toast to the future, I mentioned how happy we'd all be the day I turn 31... Though I know that the doctors that made those calculations were idiots, I can't help but keep the number in my head. It's been there for so long... Now it's there as a milestone. My friends dread turning 30, when I think that my 30s will be the happiest decade of my life...
As best as my body has tried to shut down, It hasn't, and I don't think it's going to. I'm certainly not planning on letting it...
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I need to know what's going on with Dr. L. I've been in the dark. I received reports recently about dismissal of patients with appointments after mid April but nothing was clarified or confirmed.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I have battled depression for over 20 years, and I believe it is all associated with Lyme disease.
In fact, my mood changes are one of the first symtoms I get when my symptoms flare.
I have been symptom free for several months, but recently started having new symptoms and a few older ones revisiting... rage and suicide/homicidal thoughts are part of that.
I also rationalize with myself. Suicide is selfish, I could never put my family through it... and it would make my life insurance policy moot since they will not pay if death is by choice.
So... whenever I get depressed I go off and cry in a hysterical fit then talk myself out of doing any actual physical harm.
It's a viscous cycle and I hate it... but antidepressents don't help, so what's a girl to do?
-------------------- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.+++ Diagnosed with Lyme in 2005. Suffered for years before that. Still treating/fighting it. Son diagnosed with Lyme and Babesia in 2007. Son diagnosed with Asperger's in 2011. Posts: 40 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I remember someone posting here a year or two ago that Dr.C's amino acid protocol for your brain was what pulled her out of a deep lyme depression. Would be nice if someone could dig that up.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
AP - thanks for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for all the suffering you've had to endure.
I'm glad you feel like you have a future now. Sounds like you are getting better!! Keep up the good fight.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TerryK: AP - thanks for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for all the suffering you've had to endure.
I'm glad you feel like you have a future now. Sounds like you are getting better!! Keep up the good fight.
Terry
You're welcome. It's so much easier (and more accepted by the world) when I talk about the horrible things that happen on the physical front.
I don't consider what I've been through as suffering. I feel like it's all been an extreme learning experience for me and those around me. I feel as if I've grown from it all.
It's so weird to see everything out there in writing.
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
~ ~ Hope is a powerful medicine. ~ ~ Posts: 2775 | From MN | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Betty and Mike, Evidently today Dr L told her patients that she is not going to be able to see Lyme patients anymore. She is under some sort of pressure, which I think Mike outlined very eloquently on www.lymefriends.com.
She is telling her patients they have 4-6 weeks to find another Lyme doc. She will still treat us for anything other than Lyme, many of us are being treated by her for thyroid and adrenal issues, allergies, etc.
Mike has graciously offered to help anyone and everyone find a new doctor.
Betty, it is Dr. Katherine Lantsman in Wellesley, Ma. I dont' think there is any harm at this point in saying her name out loud.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Ok, so she's going from an LLMD of sorts, to a Lyme Friendly doctor. That's at least "something."
-- Mike
P.S. Dr. Lantsman gave permission to still use her name publically.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
One more thing. Tracy can you give me a "real" patient report via PM to add to my records? This way patients will know how to deal with her before deciding to see her as a new patient (if she decides to have them in the future). Let me know what she's doing, and what the future looks like.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
i think considering suicide is not only a natural reaction to years of intense suffering without sanctioned help from the medical community, it is, as others noted above, a purely biological response to brain infection and inflammation. suicidal ideation is a serious lyme symptom like any other -- unremitting neuropathy, heart block, excruciating pain -- and needs to be discussed openly, so that those of us who fight this demon every day have at least one outlet where we feel safe, a place to come and know we will be comforted, uplifted, supported by others who understand the devastating neurological effects of this disease.
attempting to quash open and honest discussion about suicidal ideation on this site is dangerous, in my opinion. we need to know we're not alone, that there is hope and help available, that others have come before us and lived to tell about it, have found joy and deep meaning on the flip side of the darkest imaginable pain.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
mike, i so appreciate your in-depth and thoughtful posts. this may be straying off topic a bit, but in response, i don't believe that everything can be explained by science. this, coming from someone who is not at all religious -- but i suppose i am spiritual, constantly in awe of this world and its inner workings, and i think the mystery itself is paramount. no matter how deeply scientists keep probing (as well they should, as we greatly benefit from each new discovery), how many layers are peeled back, there will still be far more that is unknown than understood. how can we, as mere humans, tiny specks in the vastness that is this universe, possibly come to understand all that is? it borders on hubris to think we can begin to approach a state of all-knowing through science, objective investigation, the paltry tools available to us as human beings.
i think quantum physics comes closest to attempting to explain that which we can't possibly discern through our established five senses, but even that realm of study has its limitations, as the mystical cannot be contained or quantified in language alone. and if human beings were suddenly erased from this earth entirely, does it then follow that life would somehow stop, falling trees would make no sound without a thinking, reasoning human present to perceive the impact, to feel the ground tremor or bask in each sunrise or hear the morning birdsong?
stating that this world exists only because we perceive it or seek to understand/explain that which we can't perceive, in my opinion, gives far too much significance to our own small existence. we didn't create the air or the trees or the earthworm or the single-celled organism at the bottom of the sea or the fibonacci sequence of smoke rising from the end of a burning cigarette. and all these things (save the cigarette, thank goodness) will continue long past our eventual expiration.
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