Topic: Curious as to how many people Think about Suicide
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
quote: So is this life just a mere illusion? If that's true why does it feel so real?
This life -- in my opinion -- is an illusion from any given perspective. Like the laws of Newton, and the theory of relativity, the atoms and matter that participate in the dance of order within our bodies are now easily explained through our understanding thanks to science.
Science has -- over time -- explained how the body and brain work. They are one, not two. We've mastered the technology to create artificial intelligence, to feed the entire world population and end reliance on fossil fuel technologies tomorrow if we willed it to be.
We're now aware that our senses are not a true reflection of what actually is present in our reality. We have a very narrow spectrum of light which we "see" -- yet there is a very large spectrum which we don't but that which still impacts us.
With calcium, phosphorus, potassium, nitrogen, carbon, our bodies are united with the ground we walk -- they are the same.
We take in air, and exhale, serving our purpose in the larger environment we depend. Nothing which we are, is "us" but rather everything which is constantly coming and going.
We are made new again over and over again, as we exchange protein, minerals, and elements with other animals, or plants. Without air, we die, without food we die. There is no real separation between you and I.
We are one process acting out various roles, putting on a show of sorts for no one in particular. We are simply a playful game, changing constantly in the face of the available building blocks. Like the writing of Emily Dickinson, what was once 26 letters is now a masterful pattern, attracting our attention for it's relevancy.
This alphabet has come and gone and come and gone, expanding, and then collapsing upon itself. This is the breath of the universe. Construct, then Deconstruct.
Everything depends on everything else for a happening to be perceived. As a consequence of knowing this fact, when you look up at the stars at night, you are seeing yourself. It is through your eyes that the universe is "awake and conscious" -- capable of self reflection upon the one, by creating the illusion of two.
Ultimately, you are not and will not be separated from this process. The illusion is that "you" are an individual, when the reality is you are merely your thoughts about you, about what you've previously perceived. When you see another human being, you are looking at yourself.
So what is the meaning then of existing if nothing "matters? and all is ultimately an act?" What is the point if everything we think is simply an illusion governed by mechanistic laws, and nerve, skin, and faith?
The point is that as a mirror, you can choose which parts of yourself you'd like to demonstrate and have manifest on stage. What do you want to create and who do you want to be? You have some control, you have some say as long as the machine "works". Will you, can you -- use your illusion?
Pain, suffering, pleasure, excitement-- no matter how serious, or how absurd -- is simply a happening.
It feels real, because you feel, see, hear, smell, taste -- because you perceive separation and can "sense" the happening. When you no longer perceive, there will continue to be trees falling, but there will be no sound without a reference point capable of identifying it as a sound.
Without an in-tact spinal cord, the pain one feels in their toes when cut with a knife will continue to resonate as an impulse, but there is no longer a "perceiver" since the signal is not received and thus it's as if it no longer is happening for you.
The damage done, and the impulse is reality, yet it is painless, it is "senseless" if you don't "know" you're being injured, you won't know it's "happening".
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
"with calcium, phosphorus, potassium, nitrogen, carbon, our bodies are united with the ground we walk--they are the same"
Mike, do you understand why the planets have so much influence over us, going so far as to determine what parts of our bodies are affected? (medical astrology) This is determined according to our individual charts.
A friend of mine is an astrologer and he seems to think most everything is fated,(including diseases) determined partly by harmonic degrees of ones astrological chart.
Thanks,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Gael, Clearly some ailments have been proven to be related to other bodies in the sky. We know one in particular that triggers a variety of "behaviors" indirectly. Melatonin production and reduction based on the circadian patterns is an obvious one. We know the gravity of the sun plays an important role in how light travels to and from earth. We know the tilt of the earth can decrease levels of light to certain areas of the planet, thus affecting behavior changes in some people in the form of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Depression, irritability, and other changes in personality are noted.
There are a variety of effects that are thought to take place collectively on behavior. The differences between astrology and astronomy is where your friend and I would take different paths though. The term fated would also suggest that something creative was in motion, but from the point of view of scientific understanding, we've come to understand that things aren't so much created, as they are adapting form to fit function. That specific combinations of matterr relative to other matter in specific environments are either at an advantage or disadvantage to maintain their form given their qualities (as Darwin noted).
I'm getting too far off the subject here, so I'll wrap this back around. Lyme patients are often home bound and light sensitive. Chronic absence of light from the sun, or artificial lights that minic the sun can lead to suicidal behavior. This is an additional burden that Lyme patients experience. It is important to get some form of light for 15 minutes to 20 minutes per day, preferably without sun glasses on and plenty of skin exposure, hands, arms, shoulders, legs etc. For those too ill to go outside or to get adequate light, a sun-lamp could be useful, and of course supplementation for various deficiencies are good.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Beware the Mepron!
I actually tied feeling truly suicidal to starting Mepron at full dose. It didn't happen when I started with 1/2 doses the first day.
It was a good thing that I realized that Mepron can cause severe depression and was able to pull out of it. It was very scary.
There have been many times that I've felt hopeless, worthless, tired & frustrated. If not for the love, empathy & understanding I've gotten from my dear friends on this board, I don't know what may have become of me.
There are many people out there who are going through this. We all know these feelings at different times through illness and recovery (and relapses & recovery ).
At times when I feel strong, I fight for those who can't, try to do whatever research & activism efforts I can and be a shoulder for whoever I can because there are times when I'm the "low man" on the board and others carry me.
I am so grateful for this board and all of the wonderful people who make it what it is.
Lymetwister, you're not alone. I do believe that it's perfectly normal, when faced with what we deal with, to feel that way from time to time.
The key is to remember that there are people out there fighting and doing research and new things ARE being learned. It's only a matter of time before SOMEONE straightens out this mess!
If we give up hope & die, IDSA wins. If no one makes noise or fights with Frank Pallone, what chance do we stand? If we stop searching for answers, who can we help?
I've been told that crying sheds ketes. Maybe every once in a while we need a good cry to get rid of some of the excess.
Remember that this was not always your life and believe that it will not be this way forever. Believe that it WILL get better, IT MUST!, and when that time comes, you will look back & say "I can't believe I actually felt like that."
That day will come, believe in it. That's what keeps me going, that and the good people on Lymenet (and some who are no longer on Lymenet, but nonetheless still fellow Lymies who care about me).
Someone had mentioned that it is a "brain disease". This is SO true. When the chemicals in your brain get messed up, it can cause awful depression. The thing to remember is "This too shall pass!" When you wake up tomorrow you could have an entirely different perspective and wonder, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?!!!"
There's lots of great info on Lyme & the brain on www.thehumansideofLyme.net and a link to e-mail the author of the site. She's been through this herself and understands.
When I was in my second relapse and my LL?IDMD didn't seem to care, my LLMD seemed to have abandoned me and my marriage was falling apart, I reached out to her. She pulled me up, gave me strength, hope & direction.
She also understands the Lyme brain chemical issues we face and the complexities of treating those imbalances.
She also understands the psychological abuse that many Lymies have suffered, at the hands of ignorant doctors, in their search for answers.
I made myself cry, thinking about how wonderful she is. I should give a call or drop a note to thank her & see how she's doing.
Don't ever let anyone make you feel like you're wrong to feel something you're feeling, just because they haven't felt the same way.
Maybe we're not ALL the same and don't ALL have the same life experiences, but you'll always find plenty of people here that will identify with you & yours.
hugs & prayers, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
A HELL OF A LOT MORE now that Dr. L. is closing her Lyme practice.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I am right now... I am sick of suffering everyday.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
tracy, dr. L is closing her practice; what state please?
what's her specialty to help me find her in our lists since city names can't be given.
WHEN so i can note on our llmd lists... and notify the others too.
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posted
unexpectedills is there one symptom that is harder then others on you? I know not to long ago I was in a nose dive from being so exhausted but pulled out of it by raising my glutathione level.
Sorry to hear things are tough right now.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I sure haven't been posting as often as I used to, but that's because there have been a myriad of changes in my life...
Lost loves, never ending hospitalizations, a swift downward spiral into self-destructive behavior...
I've been there. I think my first attempt was in June of 2006. My boyfriend at the time walked in on me at the kitchen table with a knife, an empty bottle of pills, and a half-eaten bean burrito. I learned then exactly how to manipulate the mental health professionals into believing that I was fine.
For years now, that's what I have done... I get really sick, begin to shut down, attempt self harm or suicide and wiggle my way out of situations. If I can't wiggle out right away, I offer to go in for evaluations voluntarily, knowing that at some point I'll find the weakest link and be able to manipulate my way out of the situation.
One mental health professional actually recognized what I was doing while I was inpatient, and still discharged me.
I don't lie anymore. When I'm having a Lyme fit, I get in my car with various bottles of pills and drive... I call select few who I think can help me - because I do recognize that the real me would never want to ruin such a precious life, no matter how terrible it may seem - and I tell them what I'm up to. Sometimes I tell them where I am, sometimes I don't.
When I hear a siren, my friends know that calls are cut short because I disconnect my cell phone battery and drive away again. I run until I'm so out of breath and broken down that I have no energy to harm myself. Then I ask for help.
It's happened so many times that I feel stupid at the end of every fit. I can never believe that I'm strong enough to keep myself from downing the bottle of pills on my passenger seat, but not strong enough to openly ask for help before loading up the car and leaving.
When my friends try to talk to me about what they could have done differently, I always tell them that I need to just be held down and hugged, but in all actuality, it'd be like trying to cram a shark into a goldfish tank because I'm always filled with so much rage.
This January was really rough. Bad news kept piling on top of me and I'd been drinking and partying way more than I should have been... My judgement was impaired and I tried to go to a friend for support, but no one is able to drop everything and focus on a single human being at the drop of a hat.
I drove off... Parked my car on the side of the road, and started popping pills. I kept track. I kept close track... I knew that if I took a certain amount of this or that I'd simply fall asleep and maybe things would get better when I woke up.
My friend turned me in to the local authorities, I was taken to the local hospital and manipulated everyone into believing that I was OK. I must have thought and talked about attempting suicide every day for a full week. I was surrounded by county sheriff's at one point - I think there were 4 cars total, and able to manipulate them into believing that I was mentally sound. I had a paramedic knock on my car window (after noticing the alcohol and pills) and I somehow managed to get out of going in.
It seems like suicidal tendencies increase when I'm put on any form of antidepressant. I think it's because I always picture the commercials where people are running through fields of flowers smiling while taking the medications, and I wonder why I don't feel that way. I put a lot of pressure on myself. So much, that when I let myself down, I figure it's time to go.
As I'm writing this, I'm realizing that I've never spoken so candidly about what has gone on mentally. I mention breakdowns, I mention that I'm not mentally capable of completing something, but I never openly say it's because I'm struggling to keep myself alive.
That's what I do on a daily basis... I try to be more of who I was and want to be, and less of who the Lyme makes me. I just took a month and a half break from medications - after a 2 week stay in the hospital - and I think I came out of the break with a much better perspective on this disease and the way my body and mind deal with it.
The biggest thing I discovered is that you don't know how strong you are until strength is all you have left.
I'd love to say that I'll never be in the dark places I've been again, but I realize that because of my own negligence I am now a lot sicker than I should be. I realize getting better is not going to be easy. It never was... I realize that there'll be many more long, dark nights and there may be one that I don't come out of, but I know how much I look forward to the future these days and how disappointed I would be if I didn't fulfill every last one of the goals I've set for myself.
Future... A new option for me. I realized during my break that I'd been living in anticipation of dying. I've come so close, medically speaking, that I couldn't help but think every night when I closed my eyes they wouldn't open again in the morning... Right out of the gate, when I was diagnosed, the doctors matter of factly told me that I was not going to survive my stay. That's what I've thought the entire time I've had Lyme - that I wouldn't survive my stay. I've thrown out the earlier calculations that I wouldn't make it past 30, and at my 27th birthday dinner, I proposed a toast to the future, I mentioned how happy we'd all be the day I turn 31... Though I know that the doctors that made those calculations were idiots, I can't help but keep the number in my head. It's been there for so long... Now it's there as a milestone. My friends dread turning 30, when I think that my 30s will be the happiest decade of my life...
As best as my body has tried to shut down, It hasn't, and I don't think it's going to. I'm certainly not planning on letting it...
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I need to know what's going on with Dr. L. I've been in the dark. I received reports recently about dismissal of patients with appointments after mid April but nothing was clarified or confirmed.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I have battled depression for over 20 years, and I believe it is all associated with Lyme disease.
In fact, my mood changes are one of the first symtoms I get when my symptoms flare.
I have been symptom free for several months, but recently started having new symptoms and a few older ones revisiting... rage and suicide/homicidal thoughts are part of that.
I also rationalize with myself. Suicide is selfish, I could never put my family through it... and it would make my life insurance policy moot since they will not pay if death is by choice.
So... whenever I get depressed I go off and cry in a hysterical fit then talk myself out of doing any actual physical harm.
It's a viscous cycle and I hate it... but antidepressents don't help, so what's a girl to do?
-------------------- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.+++ Diagnosed with Lyme in 2005. Suffered for years before that. Still treating/fighting it. Son diagnosed with Lyme and Babesia in 2007. Son diagnosed with Asperger's in 2011. Posts: 40 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I remember someone posting here a year or two ago that Dr.C's amino acid protocol for your brain was what pulled her out of a deep lyme depression. Would be nice if someone could dig that up.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
AP - thanks for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for all the suffering you've had to endure.
I'm glad you feel like you have a future now. Sounds like you are getting better!! Keep up the good fight.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TerryK: AP - thanks for sharing your story. I'm so sorry for all the suffering you've had to endure.
I'm glad you feel like you have a future now. Sounds like you are getting better!! Keep up the good fight.
Terry
You're welcome. It's so much easier (and more accepted by the world) when I talk about the horrible things that happen on the physical front.
I don't consider what I've been through as suffering. I feel like it's all been an extreme learning experience for me and those around me. I feel as if I've grown from it all.
It's so weird to see everything out there in writing.
-------------------- Sometimes when I say �Oh, I�m fine� I want someone to look me in the eyes & say �tell the truth�
~ ~ Hope is a powerful medicine. ~ ~ Posts: 2775 | From MN | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
Betty and Mike, Evidently today Dr L told her patients that she is not going to be able to see Lyme patients anymore. She is under some sort of pressure, which I think Mike outlined very eloquently on www.lymefriends.com.
She is telling her patients they have 4-6 weeks to find another Lyme doc. She will still treat us for anything other than Lyme, many of us are being treated by her for thyroid and adrenal issues, allergies, etc.
Mike has graciously offered to help anyone and everyone find a new doctor.
Betty, it is Dr. Katherine Lantsman in Wellesley, Ma. I dont' think there is any harm at this point in saying her name out loud.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Ok, so she's going from an LLMD of sorts, to a Lyme Friendly doctor. That's at least "something."
-- Mike
P.S. Dr. Lantsman gave permission to still use her name publically.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
One more thing. Tracy can you give me a "real" patient report via PM to add to my records? This way patients will know how to deal with her before deciding to see her as a new patient (if she decides to have them in the future). Let me know what she's doing, and what the future looks like.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
i think considering suicide is not only a natural reaction to years of intense suffering without sanctioned help from the medical community, it is, as others noted above, a purely biological response to brain infection and inflammation. suicidal ideation is a serious lyme symptom like any other -- unremitting neuropathy, heart block, excruciating pain -- and needs to be discussed openly, so that those of us who fight this demon every day have at least one outlet where we feel safe, a place to come and know we will be comforted, uplifted, supported by others who understand the devastating neurological effects of this disease.
attempting to quash open and honest discussion about suicidal ideation on this site is dangerous, in my opinion. we need to know we're not alone, that there is hope and help available, that others have come before us and lived to tell about it, have found joy and deep meaning on the flip side of the darkest imaginable pain.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
mike, i so appreciate your in-depth and thoughtful posts. this may be straying off topic a bit, but in response, i don't believe that everything can be explained by science. this, coming from someone who is not at all religious -- but i suppose i am spiritual, constantly in awe of this world and its inner workings, and i think the mystery itself is paramount. no matter how deeply scientists keep probing (as well they should, as we greatly benefit from each new discovery), how many layers are peeled back, there will still be far more that is unknown than understood. how can we, as mere humans, tiny specks in the vastness that is this universe, possibly come to understand all that is? it borders on hubris to think we can begin to approach a state of all-knowing through science, objective investigation, the paltry tools available to us as human beings.
i think quantum physics comes closest to attempting to explain that which we can't possibly discern through our established five senses, but even that realm of study has its limitations, as the mystical cannot be contained or quantified in language alone. and if human beings were suddenly erased from this earth entirely, does it then follow that life would somehow stop, falling trees would make no sound without a thinking, reasoning human present to perceive the impact, to feel the ground tremor or bask in each sunrise or hear the morning birdsong?
stating that this world exists only because we perceive it or seek to understand/explain that which we can't perceive, in my opinion, gives far too much significance to our own small existence. we didn't create the air or the trees or the earthworm or the single-celled organism at the bottom of the sea or the fibonacci sequence of smoke rising from the end of a burning cigarette. and all these things (save the cigarette, thank goodness) will continue long past our eventual expiration.
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