posted
Yes, you can take Cat's Claw and Artemesia together. But it would be best to wait at least 2 or 3 days before adding in another new herb.
Some people react strongly to cat's claw and others don't notice much at all. For hubby the hardest of the Buhner herbs for him to take is Andrographis. I remember that after he took the first pill I made him wait 3 or 4 days before trying that again. He had dizziness and I think G.I. issues as well.
Even now he has only ever worked up to 5 andrographis per day. I have been trying to increase it by one pill a day for several months now. But he takes 12 olive leaf capsules and 12 neem capsules a day without a problem.
Herbs often have multiple actions -- antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral etc so sometimes it is hard to know which ones will cause reactions and even harder to say why a particular one is harder to take.
Note -- Also very important to pulse the artemesia. Take it for 3 days and stop for 4 days. Hubby didn't know to pulse it when he took it 5 years ago so it was pretty useless even though he stayed on it for 15 months.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
I'm thinking you might not want to add in too much at one time, since you're on overload already.
You know, when I started Cat's Claw (Allergy Research Prima Una de Gato), I got a total brain herx. It was as if my head would kind of lock up.. even on less than one capsule.
so when pushed to add in a second dose, I would kind of get lost in my own world (which was really fun coming home from work on the GSP).
I am so sorry to hear of your distress. ER's suck, they know nothing of Lyme, so for me would be a total last resort.
Can you call your LLMD to see if they have any suggestions and know of your distress? Perhaps suggest a short meds break and some detoxing??
PM me if you need someone to talk to - sometimes (not always, but sometimes), being heard is enough to get your through it.
All the best.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
If you reacted on artemisia..than you really need MALARONE with it.You should work your way up...very slowly ...as is not a joke in your situation...
With one pill and you feel like that ...watch out...increase them after yo uare 1 week on one pill than next week and so on...in the mean time try to keep your blood flown well.
I used to take CAT`s CLAW as well...stoped working for me fast so SAMENTO....you have a high load of BABS/PROTOZOA bug.Let us know the symtoms...
yes wobenzyme in empty stomack should be taken first...SO the concept is to keep your blood flow before you add and dump some more DEAD BUGS from ARTEMISIN and others that follow...( please confirm every thing with your doctor :)we are no DOCTORS .
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Hi Reynolds, they are all correct. Add any thing new one at a time slowly so you have a handle on what's doing what. You probably need to seriously
consider detox too, as mentioned. You have to start getting these toxins out of your system and make sure your liver is clearing well.
But the fact that you had such a reaction is a good thing. Back in the day I used to take 500mg of artemesia 3x a day. But it is correct that with herbs you need to take a break from them. You can't take them continuously, so Bea's advice is well taken.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Kreynolds,
please don't ignore this major possibility as to why you are so sick
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
JKMMCO9 - could you please pm me with the name of the neuro-psychiatrist you mentioned. I tried to pm you but your mailbox is full - thanks
Posts: 133 | From Far Hills, NJ 07931 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Hi Roy, I hope that you are feeling a little better.
Dr. E is very knowledgeable about supplements, maybe she can suggest/recommend since she is seeing your son? Maybe, worth a try.
Whatever you decide to do, only start one supplement at a time and track/document what happens.
All good advice here. Detox is very important too as mentioned by someone else.
I was glad to read that your little one is responding to tx.
Sending my best wishes for all of you.
-------------------- This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.
The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.
cb Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
Trust me, I know how you feel. I feel like I am in a constant state of hell. Suicide thoughts are common with me, but somehow I go on. Pain is bad some days to the point I can barely function. Do you have a good support group, family, anything? Can you do any hobbies to take your mind off things or is the pain that bad?
Parasites and Worms are a real issue but Salt and C will do very little. My LLMD was telling me how it is physically impossible for the salt and C approach to actually help the situation.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
richedie:
We run a Support Group and I have an excellent family.
Still sometimes that doesn't cut it......
As for the Artemesia, that stuff messed me up. I felt very sick to my stomach and my "brain fog" was even worse.
It also seemed like I was more irratable. I know a lot of you are thinking, ONE PILL???
I'm serious, I know my body very well and haven't herxed in 2 years, maybe this is the reason. I WASN'T taking the Holistic approach from the start.
ALV: Thanks for all your help from the beginning to the end of this post.
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Man I am devasted to hear what you are going through and my prayers are with you. I am one person that truly understands what you are going through-the h$#@ that never ends!!!
Like I said before it took me falling into a coma before any doctor would do something, and it sucks that it has to be that way!
Please try to stay strong- you have my phone number if you or Katie needs to call.
Do you think it could be your heart still-your symptoms sound so much like mine.
Sorry I can't be much help with any of the other stuff you are asking since I have yet to undergo proper treatment, but everyone else here has been so great here helping you.
I am truly amazed at the outpouring of love and support on this site-true human compassion!
Way to go guys!
Posts: 303 | From Jekyll Island, GA | Registered: Sep 2008
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
I am shocked nobody has gone postal on some of the a$$holes who have been holding up progress on research, and treatment for this disease. Those people should be hung.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
astriapage:
I tell my wife Katie all the time that the only way that people and doctors will believe me is if I drop dead or something really goes wrong.
It's really sad to sit here after 18 days in the hospital,knowing you have a problem with your heart and them just pushing you away.
Yes, I still believe all of my symptoms are heart related. Basically, Mitral Valve related.
I think my heart is on overload and is pumping so hard to get the blood out, which is causing the high blood pressure,shortness of breath,weakness and poor circulation in the legs, and dizziness.
I guess I will have to wait and see what happens. That is all I can do, but sometimes waiting may be too late.
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
If your other cardic test were negative look into postural tachycardia syndrome, Neurally Mediated Hypotension, Dysautonomia and get a tilt table test.
These conditions can feel like cardiac conditions without a cardiac problem. Use the search engine of this forum. You will find lots of info and many of the members here have gone for tilt table testing that you can talk with.
[ 04-29-2009, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
You may find that Wobenzym makes you herx. It does for me. Gives me pain in all joints and headaches. In theory, according to my LLMD, it dissolves biofilm surrounding the Bb colonies enabling the abx and immune system to attack them. I go off it when I can't stand the joint pain anymore. Some people call it an anti-inflammatory. For me it's a PRO-inflammatory.
Hang in there.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
The only aspect of this I might comment on is the endocrine problems. Have found that most lyme docs are run ragged by all our problems and might not have the time to attend to complicated interacting endocrine problems.
Perhaps the ACAM docs might help with this, but there is another possibility. Try the Broda Barnes Foundation for a list of doctors who understand and treat endocrine issues in a more enlightened way than the usual endo doc. I think they ask for a $20 donation for a packet of material and a list of doctors in your area. The list is the most valuable thing.
posted
"I know a lot of you are thinking, ONE PILL???"
I'm not surprised. I react very badly to just about everything doctors can give me, whether drugs or herbs. There's almost nothing I can take. If there are side effects, I'll get them. It's like my body's saying "Uh uh, no way, do NOT put foreign substances in me!"
That's why I'd encourage you to do what I finally learned to do: look up adverse effects and side effects of absolutely everything you take on the internet. Know what's the worst that can happen.
Also keep drug interactions in mind, since you're taking so many.
Some people--like myself--just don't respond "normally" to drugs.
In general, I feel better when I can eliminate medications.
Posts: 13 | From Santa Fe, NM | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
Not that I know much of anything but I was actually thinking the exact opposite I was thinking another pill.
Just seems you are on so many things. I realize you are very sick but when I get to the point of I can't take this I want to kill myself I stop everything.
Then slowly start back up again after 3 days or full dose if I am up for it. Wondering if you pulse or take breaks at all? just a thought as it has made a world of difference for me.
Take Care, Ann
-------------------- If you keep doing nothing...nothing changes!
Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
I am praying for you, Roy, that you find the strength you need to go on for your family.
If you know your body well enough to think that your severe symptoms are heart related, is it possible for you to find a leading cardiologist and get an appt?
It doesn't matter if lyme or something else initially caused your symptoms...they are still there and need to be addressed and treated.
We all know there are plenty of uneducated Dr's, so I would do a little research and find a great cardiologist who actually listens to his patients.
Perhaps someone on this board knows of someone relatively near you.
You are needed.....here and at home.
Do not give up.....if your son were a little older and struggling like this, what would you tell him???
You would not tell him it is ok to give up. You would not want to lose him.
He doesn't want to lose you.
I will pray for you.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
I have Tachycardia as well as hypertenstion from the Lyme & Co's.
I also found out from an Echo and a Holter monitor that I have Mitral Valve Regurgitation and an elevated ST level when the heart pumps.
Basically my Mitral Valve is flopping around and not sealing tight to keep the blood out.
It is making the heart work harder to pump the blood out. Thats why I have HBP, high pulse etc....
As far as the herbs I'm on I feel like they are making me herx, which is a great thing I guess.
You have to remember that for almost 2 years I haven't been on any herbs/supplements.....
I am taking Zrii,Fish Oil,Milk Thistle, Magnesium Glycinate, Artemesia,Sublingual B12 complex, Sublingual Vit D, Cats Claw, iFlora along with my prescription and IV meds.
If anything I feel like this is a good step towards my treatment.
I have to check about the Malarone and Bactrim with my doc.
As for the heart condition, yes it is a heart condition... I know my body. I will have to address that with my doc on May 7th.
I was not at all happy about how my hospital stay turned out besides the fact they found the Addisons Disease.
Thanks for all that replied!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Sure, I understand. I didn't mean to devalue what you have already learned about your condition. Just wanted to bring it up as something else to consider, since you've mentioned adverse reactions to two things. I hope you feel a lot better really soon.
Posts: 13 | From Santa Fe, NM | Registered: Aug 2007
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
Chaya:
You have every right to your opinion. You have no need to apologize.
I have studied the disease itself for 2 years.
I may not know as much as other people on here, but I sure could beat out an IDSA Quack!
With this disease that is what you have to do. Reasearch, Research, Research.......
My one problem is the fact that I know more about the disease/co's etc.. and really haven't focus on supplements.
I know most things about them, but not as much as other people on here.
I'm only 2 years into this. I'm sure 2 more years and you can send me off to medical school! LOL
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
Hi Krenold!
You need definitly ,Wobenzyme , or Rechtsregulat( do a search here for your blood flow) , and SMILAX( herbs from iheb ) to bind and clean your blood, clorella, or chitosan ( pend on testing though ) , colesteramine, B12 ( injections ) to detox and check at folinic acid that I mentioned before ( this one is to bind toxins when high dosages of antibiotics are in the use ) and helps autistic children to detox even better.
I am slow in second phase for the detox in the liver and so my son ....but with killing mode even if you are not you need to have this things into your body non stop( again tests for them ) .
My son at his worst ( I stayed up to 5 in the morning while myself sick to death ) to give him every 2 hrs at night binders on empty stomack binders.
HE would start the morning with RECHSTREGULAT and he still takes it 1hr before he wakes up in empty stomack( I can not afford it for myself but I never stoped it for him almost 2 years in a row) .
Was hard for me to keep up with 50 pils he was taking ...mostly were vitamin and binders and detoxifiers or blood thiners( rechstregulat) .
He had heart and brain problems.
NOW he does not.But I am not giving up to chase the suckers...keep them out of his blood with natural things..
KNOTWEED as decoction is perfect to detox neurotoxins and stop bart to reproduce....I used to drinks cups of it all day long...I am saying not sip but drink it as tea....
You can buy it at 1stchineherbs.com
do as decoction( cheaper) ...you can get there ( like pieces of wood is better not powder) and is better for absorbation without causing anything to your gut..
You need to take this binders at night and when you wake up ...wobenzymes or smilax should be in your blood befor you do more killing...SO yo bind toxins, reduce inflamation , tihn the blood , than YOU break the biofilom....( triphala) , after that step you go for killing ...and so back and forth
*bind( empty stomack )far from medications and food -learn the list of binders *-detox( include anything you can ) sauna , coffe enema ,steam sauna, oksigen , ion foot detoxifiers....B12 , flinic acid /check above the one I included etc *thiners ( wobenzyme, smilax , rechtregulat, heparin --whatever this can be etc ) * break biofilm ( enxymes...TRIPHALA seems very high on my case...)is showing good results * kill - antibiotics, orals IV , herbs , rife , zapper whatever you can * nourish good vitamin( pending again on testing)good diet and nutritions
* rebuild with new flora -Good probiotics...far from antibiotics-Usully 2-3 hr far from the last antibiotics...( you will herx from them as well ) to rebuild the flora in the gut overnight before you start over again..so is plenty of time to repopulate...
This should be the formula that logicly works...and is more productive...TRY to evaluate what you have done so far.
If you test them IT IS GOING To bring results even more faster based on your bodies needs...
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
Alv:
Thanks for all the info!!!! In your own opinion is Malarone better than Mepron?
I know you had mentioned previously that it hits more unidentified Babs.
If so I will get on that ASAP. As far as the Wobenzyme I am in the process of getting that along with Bactrim.
The Bactrim I am looking to purchase comes from Germany, so I trust it's good stuff. I think the bottle is red and comes with 300 capsules.
Again, Thanks for your help, it means a lot!
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Better not to get the one with the red coating but the clear one. There are two types of wobenzym, red coated or the original and the clear one. The one with the red (original) coating contains sugar.
Bactrim is a prescription med. Why do you need to get it from Germany? Are you mixed up. Wobenzym is a German product.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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kreynolds
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15117
posted
Abxnomore:
Yeah its the Dislexia.... LOL! I ment Wobenzym. Thanks for the advice about which one to get.
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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