posted
Hello all! My results from Igenenx came in and are as follows: IgM Western Blot=Negative 18- 22- 23-25 IND 28- 30- 31 IND 34- 39 IND 41 ++ the rest were all negative as well.
Since the test was actually negative should I not be too concerned? My doctor did start an antibotic for a month and asked if I had any quesitons but unfortunately, I don't know enough about all of this to even ask!!!
Any feed back is greatly appreciated!
Posts: 18 | From columbus ohio | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
What was the result for the IgG part of the test?
You have IND's on some Lyme specific bands, so I'd see how it goes on the abx, then re-evaluate. My daughter's Lyme test was ambiguous, so we confirmed her Lyme Disease with her response to abx.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hi sixgoofykids...There was not an IgG test ordered. Just IgM. Is that weird???
Posts: 18 | From columbus ohio | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Yes. You should have had both tests. My IgG had 8 positive bands. My IgM was negative. If I only had the IgM I would not have known I had Lyme.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
Do you know if your physician tested you for any Tick-Borne coinfections?
You can get many other infections with a Lyme-infected tick bite. Many of them will not be responsive to Lyme antibiotics, and can be dangerous and turn chronic, like Lyme.
How long have you been having symptoms? What is your treating physician giving you (name of antiobiotic and doseage)?
Lyme is a clinical diagnosis, which means that a negative test does not rule out Lyme Disease. You need to see a good ILADS LLMD (Lyme specialist) to be clinically evaluated for Lyme and coinfections.
They will know how to properly evaluate you, diagnose you, and treat you. This is a complex disease (or set of infections), and is still misunderstoodby many in medicine who are behind the times and not up to date on the research and clinical findings.
Your IgM is very suspicious - those IND markers mean there was enough antibody response on those levels to show up. If there was no antibody response they would just say "negative". Your IND's are also on species-specific bands, meaning no other infection can cause you to create those antibodies.
Also sixgoofykids is right, you need to have both panels done if you want to at least try to get the best level of testing currently available. Some people have more bands show up on one than the other.
But remember, MANY people who have proven cases of Lyme (proven by finding the actual organism in their body) have tested negative by Western Blot.
It is known to be a very shaky test (it has many false negatives), and that is why the CDC says that Lyem is a "clinical diagnosis" and can not be ruled out by testing.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Did you look at Dr. C's Western Blot explanation? It is at the top of the Medical Questions section.
If those IND's were actually a +, you would have a CDC positive for Lyme based on the bands.
Bands 23-25 and 39 and both Lyme-specific.
So I would maybe retest after trying some antibiotics, because sometimes that makes the Western Blots show more positive.
Please don't rule it out based on this, because maybe the IND's would show more positive after treatment can help out your immune system some.
Worth a shot. Good luck.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hey, I think we've Pm'd before right?? And you went to the Doc we discussed? I've read he only does IgM results. I think he wants to see what your body is making right now.
All of your IND and + are on the Lyme Specific bands. If the IND were +, your overall test would be positive. The LLMD we just took our son to, said the IND are + to him and I think Dr. C says the same thing.
If you start Antibiotics often the IND will turn +.
Most LLMD's would treat if you are symptomatic.
Good luck, if you have any questions, let me know!
posted
I would try the antibiotics anyway just in case. You don't want to chance chronic Lyme.
Just my opininon.
Posts: 743 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2009
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Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
My LLMD says that IND results on species specific bands are like fingerprints....it doesn't matter how dark the fingerprint is, it's still the same fingerprint.
In other words, he considers IND to be significant on species specific bands, which you have some of.
See a good LLMD.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
My LLMD says that IND is a "plus/minus". I think that means he considers significant in the big picture.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
Thank you all for the information and advice! I was started on Omnicef 300mg twice a day by the LLMD. I am sure he will have another test done soon. I have to ask the question though...what is it with Igenex? Why all the negativity about their testing techniques? There is no reason not to trust the results right? This is all so confusing!!! Ocean- Yes we have sent some PMs! How is the doc doing for you? Does your son see someone different?
Posts: 18 | From columbus ohio | Registered: Feb 2009
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Hi JJJ,
I personally believe 110% in Igenex. Their reporting helped confirm my diagnosis and my niece's.
Igenex reports and tests all the bands. Other labs only report and test selected ones.
Also, I believe Igenex is more accurate and thorough in their testing. I also think I read somewhere that they use a lower threshold for reporting bands. By that I mean, the band does not have to react as strongly for Igenex to report it as a "+".
If I am incorrect I hope someone will come along and let us know.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
i thought they also tested more strains of borrelia.
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
JJJ, IgeneX and MDL (in NJ) are probably the 2 best labs when it comes to running Western blots for Lyme. But remember, many WITH Lyme WILL test "negative" for Lyme anti-bodies... for a variety of reasons. There are other more exotic tests (PCR w/ luminescence, etc) but they all have accuracy/ sensitivity issues. This is why Lyme's "clinical DX" at present.
Not sure why your doc doesn't bother with the IgG. My ititial Quest Labs (Boston) IgM report was completely negative (save for the 41+) while my IgG was + for nearly EVERY BAND!! (Albiet a smaller # of bands than IgeneX tests for.) That Quest IgG is why I was CDC+... and reported.
300mg b.i.d. of cefdinir ("Omni") is a good start, though I think Cefuroxime axetil (Ceftin) or Cefixime (Suprax) is more suited for disseminated Lyme.
He may have a strategy we are unaware of. He may end up retesting you in a few weeks. If he's got a good rep for dealing w/ Lyme, stick w/ him for now. He's probably cheaper than chasing down a $$ out-of-town LLMD. But leave that option open.
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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"Many would say the " +/-" equivocal ["IND"] bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are "-" negative bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they put "+/-" at some bands.
The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the "+/-" equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Hi All!! Let me start over again...my LLMD did order a IgG and IgM before my first appt that was done through Quest. Both tests negative.
Based on my symptoms (numbness and MRI lesion of the spine) and that fact that I had been recently "blasted" with steroids he wanted to retest. When doing so, he only re-ordered IgM through Igenex.
Additionally he ordered a urine test challenged with Amox which came back negative.
Does that change any of your opinions? I am travelling 3 hours one way to see this guy and he isn't cheap...does it sound like he is on the right track?
Again, just looking for some feedback to help me move in the right direction! Thanks to all!
Posts: 18 | From columbus ohio | Registered: Feb 2009
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
I still stand by my original thought that Igenex is the gold standard when it comes to testing for Lyme. I would not put any faith in Quest or LabCorp.
An LLMD is the best person to evaluate and diagnosis you.
You mentioned that you weren't sure what questions to ask your doctor. Lymenet is a wonderful place to get a first-rate education. I read almost every thread, even if it doesn't apply to my situation. It may be helpful to you as well, as a way to discover just what it is you need to know more about.
I hope that last sentence made sense.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
He probably did the IgM because it is known to
persist even in the event of IgG neg. Since you
were on steroids prior he probably thought it was
worthless to do any other. I would try again after
the 4 weeks which is probably what he has in mind.
You will have to be off antibiotics 2 weeks to
get the best showing on the WB.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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