posted
The 1918 flu pandemic (commonly referred to as the Spanish flu) was an influenza pandemic that spread to nearly every part of the world. It was caused by an unusually virulent and deadly Influenza A virus strain of subtype H1N1. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify the geographic origin of the virus.[1] Most of its victims were healthy young adults, in contrast to most influenza outbreaks which predominantly affect juvenile, elderly, or otherwise weakened patients. The flu pandemic has also been implicated in the sudden outbreak of Encephalitis lethargica in the 1920s.[2]
The pandemic lasted from March 1918 to June 1920,[3] spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. It is estimated that anywhere from 50 to 100 million people were killed worldwide,[4][5] or the approximate equivalent of one third of the population of Europe.[6][7][8] An estimated one third of the world (500 million people) became infected.[5]
Scientists have used tissue samples from frozen victims to reproduce the virus for study. Given the strain's extreme virulence there has been controversy regarding the wisdom of such research. Among the conclusions of this research is that the virus kills via a cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system) which explains its unusually severe nature and the concentrated age profile of its victims. The strong immune systems of young adults ravaged the body, whereas the weaker immune systems of children and middle-aged adults caused fewer deaths.
Posts: 743 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2009
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
You are mounting an incredible response to Bb's "toxin"...ongoing.
That's the problem.
No response = no infection.
To PREVENT lyme (in dogs) we use Frontline applied to their skin.
This blocks (for a month) the chloride channels.
Bb triggers the chloride channels to open.
If they are being blocked, Bb cannot live.
When that channel is active/open, NaCl goes in - first. It is followed by Ca.
Bb needs Na for its Na-ATPase and NaCl for motility and it does NOT WANT calcium in there (the cells it infects) with it.
Bb's "toxin" cleaves (breaks apart)this: MAPKK-1.
2 K's ain't happening.
K= phosphate transfer.
Anthrax toxin cleaves the same i.e., MAPKK-1.
Anthrax is a piece of cake compared to Bb because anthrax has only ONE cell wall and Bb has multiple and Bb can go from keet -> CWD form and rebuild its cell walls or go into cyst form quickly in "hostile" conditions.
[ 05-15-2009, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
The whole thing is obscene... My husband had to go to NYC & he has the flu now. He's in a motel until he gets better - he doesn't want to spread it to me.
I told him he has to watch out with it since it hits healthy people harder that people like me who are ill. I don't know the exact science about this cytokine storm but it's just not a good situation.
He's kind of stoic & thinks he's immortal. You can't fool around with this flu, though. They may say it's all OK & under control but the whole scenario around it is bizarre.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Marnie--so does the fact that we're mounting such a response to the toxin mean we'll die if we get the swine flu?
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lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Sparkle, I'm so sorry about your husband! That's really scary, but I'm glad that he's taking precautions and staying away from you until he's better.
In regards to it hitting healthier people harder - this one seems to be doing the opposite. The healthier folks seem to have had really mild cases and the only deaths in the U.S. have been those with "pre-existing" health conditions. Scary.
I think it would be wise for all of us to stock up on a couple weeks of xtra food and meds just in case this thing does get out of hand or mutates into something worse. That way we can ride it out at home and stay away from the general population...
Lauren
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
I don't know which cytokines/ immune responses are triggered by that virus...same or different?
If different...sometimes people who have lyme and get a "flu"/ "cold" have lyme go into remission.
Our body looks at which pathogen presents the *greatest threat* to us (death) and will shift the defense system to attacking the most dangerous infection...at that time.
Logical. The body has to chose. The Th pathways (Th1, Th2 - and there is a Th3) can't/don't operate simultaneously as I understand it.
I wish I knew what is the underlying medical problem (mentioned in the news) for the assistant prinicipal in NY who is currently on a ventilator ... what caused HIM to have such a massive reaction when others are having "mild" normal flu symptoms?
Does he have diabetes, high blood pressure...what?
What put HIM at *greater risk* for serious complications?
In this case, privacy issues may need to be waived.
We need to know if we have diabetes, ***FOR EXAMPLE***, if that disease can compound the problem (swine flu + diabetes -> very severe reaction) so diabetics could take a lot more additional precautions.
The average age for those who have died from swine flu is 15 years old...from what I've read.
This, in reality, is not a huge number of deaths for a flu.
Every year an amazing number of people die from a flu...in the thousands.
They are worried it will mutate and come back next year stronger again or join with another virus.
Could be a really bad flu season NEXT YEAR.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by John S: Among the conclusions of this research is that the virus kills via a cytokine storm (overreaction of the body's immune system)
Do you have any reviewed links (say, PubMed) to supporting studies? My understanding is this issue was still being debated.
If that conclusion is accurate, it could put things in a different class than the typical cold/flu which most lymies do not catch. With our immune systems already in Th1 high gear, it's unclear to me what would happen.
IMO the two most likely possibilities for lymies are 1) such an infectious agent would get swamped and wiped out before it had a chance to replicate and trigger a cytokine storm for us, or 2) our immune system would be pushed even more toward Th1, and we could succumb like non-lymies.
My non-medical opinion is #1 is more likely. But if we start to experience #2, we're probably more well informed to deal with it than the general public, and could douse ourselves with steroids, vitamin D, etc. to turn down our immune overreaction.
Posts: 727 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Blocking GABA A and GABA C (fast inhibition) leaves only the non chloride channel, GABA B (slow inhibition) working.
Which is okay ***if not already infected***, but once fast inhibition is happening, it is hard to block it AND support the other form of GABA...GABA B = slow inhibition.
GABA B needs 2 helper proteins: Gi/Go and they must both be fully functional (these have subsets) and happen IN SEQUENCE.
If you can figure out how to get those 2 proteins to kick in...
You will have cured MS! I am not kidding.
Baclofen is a nice try, but once again, BOTH of these proteins have to be made in sequence.
dguy...did you ever look very very closely at the photon animation link I've provided numerous times?
It is on a "legit" neuro website.
If we can "close the doors" and NOT ALLOW Ca out of the infected cells, this will counter Bb's PKC INHIBITOR.
Bb does NOT want Ca in the cell with it. It has an inhibitor to do so. It does not want calcium to help a phosphate (actually 2 phosphate) transfers.
P = protein K= kinase = transfer phosphates C = CALCIUM ACTIVATED
If we can "trap" calcium in the cell, PKC can be activated and phosphate transfer can happen once again -> more ATP...which will drive Mg back in where it forms Mg-ATP and we need Mg to do this:
ADP-> ATP -> ADP -> ATP.
To make ITS ATP, Bb is using Na-ATPase.
dguy...a lot depends also on what that swine flu virus attaches to.
A few years ago, researchers figured out what the SARS virus locks onto - an enzyme. They gave MORE of that enzyme and the virus locked onto the EXCESS and did not infect -> respiratory failure.
Since Bb locks onto our plasminogen...I wonder if early treatment...
Plasminogen converts to plasmin which Bb looks to once again "cloak" itself in. Is plasmin functioning as the "biofilm"?
The first "cloaking" was with the SALP 15 protein that it got from the tick's saliva.
That protein influences calcium fluxes.
It allowed Bb to evade the immune defense.
The pathogens...all of them...can evolve much faster than we have/are doing.
They have become very good at surviving in hostile conditions...moreso than we can.
Sparkle, I hope your husband recovers quickly. Please keep us informed.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
hmmm
I don't know about this.
People with weak immune systems die easier because their bodies can not fight off all the infections.
People with AIDS don't die from teh virus, they die because their immune systems are weak, and they get other infections, and the body gets overwhelmed.
People with cancer sometimes die NOT from the cancer, but becuase the drugs/radiation knock down their immune system, and they get die from infections.
I mean, this is why many of us have such a hard time getting well, because we have more than one infection, and our immune system is weak...
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Marnie: I wish I knew what is the underlying medical problem (mentioned in the news) for the assistant prinicipal in NY who is currently on a ventilator ... what caused HIM to have such a massive reaction when others are having "mild" normal flu symptoms?
Does he have diabetes, high blood pressure...what?
What put HIM at *greater risk* for serious complications?
In this case, privacy issues may need to be waived.
We need to know if we have diabetes, ***FOR EXAMPLE***, if that disease can compound the problem (swine flu + diabetes -> very severe reaction) so diabetics could take a lot more additional precautions.
On the news tonight his wife spoke and she said he had nothing serious, just high blood pressure and borderline cholesterol, but another person interviewed said that the man has gout and it is affecting his kidneys.
His wife works at the school as well.
Posts: 472 | From New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2007
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Sparkle, I'm sorry about your hubby's flu! How is he doing? Did he get tested to see if he has the H1N1 Flu? (Nobody knows the real count on this because not that many people are being tested.)
I ran across this at the Frequency Foundation - people who use various machines and frequencies for treatment, etc. I have no idea where the information came from, but the reference to Lyme and Plum Island caught my eye.
quote:Swine Flu Update 30 Apr 2009 Frequency Foundation ongoing research indicates that there are three virus strains circulating. Two variants of swine flu and one of bird flu. This may account for mixed genetic material seen in viruses cultured by other researchers. The frequencies appear to be the same as one of the many hundreds of viruses that those infected with Lyme disease have been fighting for years with minor changes. So they are likely variants of the many viruses studied and released into the atmosphere at the Plum Island laboratory through decades of violation of EPA safety regulations. At least one United Nations expert thinks these viruses were produced in a lab....
Maybe this means that Lymies might have some indirect immunity to this flu virus?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
Anyone on this board have had swine flu and recovered?
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
I have not felt anything in the neighborhood of a common cold or the flu since having all these problems with lyme and co's...
It's as if my body is saying "whatever" and ignoring everything else...
This is for about 2 years now and I work at a public library so I'm definitely exposed...
It's all very strange...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
2 people in our Monterey Bay area died last week. Said they had underlying health problems. They keep on saying on our news that Swine is no worse than other flus. They are sure pushing for flu shots,though.$$$ Not in my body. Thank you.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I am very concerned about the H1N1 flu having CFIDS and Lyme. I am also allergic to eggs, so I don't think I can get the flu shot once it comes out. anybody have any suggestions? 14k
Posts: 51 | From Boston, Ma. | Registered: May 2009
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
There have been a couple of threads about flu prevention the past few months..... here's one:
I'm with you Healing in SC - no flu shots in MY body. Thanks but no thanks. I reserve the right to choose NOT be be vaccinated. I'll use homeopathics for any prevention and treatment.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i'm from iowa and we are NO. 1 HOG PRODUCERS IN USA.
so my dear friend, would you edit subject line to show H1N1 or is it reversed?
i HATE seeing lyme members post this as SWINE/hogs since our hog producers are really suffering from the news media using SWINE VS. H1N1 NAME!
thanks on behalf of me and iowa pork producers; dad raised pigs when i grew up; they were our 4-H projects for county fairs and earning ribbons.
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