posted
Hi, everyone. This is my first post here. I was dx 2 weeks ago with Babeosis and Lyme by an LLMD here in FL. I've been sick for 8 years.
I called my LLMD for my test results (tests other than Lyme, etc.) yesterday and the nurse told me that my IgG subclass levels were low. I didn't know to ask her about each subclass (1 -4) or the exact levels.
I was thrown by these results because they indicate an immune disease. Rare immune diseases do run strongly in my family.
Has anyone else had low IgG levels?
Can untreated (just started abx for first time) Lyme do this to the immune system?
Thanks for any comments or advice!
Kim in FL
-------------------- Misdiagnosed with CFS for 7 yrs. Diagnosed by LLMD in 2009. Aggressive treatment for 3 years with minimum improvement. Posts: 120 | From FL | Registered: Jun 2009
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
I had these tests done. My IgG was normal, but I had 0 (as in zero) IgM levels.
No one in my family has immune diseases, and previous to this, I never had any problems.
Lyme and babesea both have the potential to suppress your immune system.
But, not everything is always these tick diseases. If you have a family history of immune diseases, it might not be a bad idea to see an immunologist.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Prior to being diagnosed with lyme, I found out that I have (or had) borderline low IGG subclasses. Even did a dose of IVIG to see if that helped. It didn't. Pretty much all I noticed was a monster headache for 3 days, and I got a crazy rash on my hands (like leprosy or something) for a month.
Not much for spending $7,000.
I read so much that lyme and babesia suppress the immune system, after I got diagnosed with Lyme--I have wondered if this was part of it.
Though I had the subclass deficiency (hypogammaglobemia), I really had NONE of the normal symptoms. Most people with it have a life history of mostly upper respiratory illness and some other things. I never had that--still don't.
Posts: 322 | From Venice, CA | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I had my IGG & subclasses checked about a 8 months ago. My subclass 3 was below normal and the other ones were normal but on the low side. I did 6 months of IVIG but never retested. I did not notice any changes during or after starting the treatments.
Posts: 15 | From El Paso, Texas | Registered: Jul 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i have no knowledge on babs .... sorry but i have this:
Welcome; i'm so glad you found us!! You've come to the right place for education and support!
Betty's suggested POSTING GUIDELINES . many of us have neuro lyme where we can NOT read long solid block text and be able to comprehend and read it as is.
please edit your post by CLICKING PAPER/PENCIL ICON to right of your name. that opens up BOTH subject line and body text.
now please break up your WORDY SENTENCES into one sentence paragraphs. Then hit ENTER KEY ``TWICE`` after each paragraph; we need that space for comprehension.
then go to left hand corner and mark box to receive ALL REPLIES, and click EDIT SEND
we thank you for helping us; otherwise, we will SOB, SCROLL ON BY, since we can't read to help you. If I see posts like this, I SOB them; to hard on me. ------------------------------------------------------
People seeking doctors might be able to get help from their state online information and support group. Nearly 3,400 people belong to state groups. Some of the groups are small but more than 20 of them have 50 or more people and seven have over 100.
The groups are moderated and you have to apply. Most don't allow doctor names, but once on the group, you can ask for doctors in a certain area and ask people to email you privately. *******************************************
This explains the medical politics around lyme WHY you need an ILADS-educated or ILADS-member LLMD (and there are also some ILADS-member LL NDs (naturopathic doctors):
You should also be evaluated for coinfections. Not all tests are great in that regard, either, but a good LLMD can evaluate you and then guide you in testing. One of the top labs is:
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM." ===========
ILADS The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
I don't know anything about subclasses, but my IgG and IgM tested low.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
Hi KimDC,
Welcome!!
This is Nanie46 from the Prohealth board.
I have a different screen name here.
I am glad you decided to post here.
There are alot of intelligent people here who are always willing to help.
There is alot of valuable info on the different lymenet boards, so keep posting!!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
Hi Kim,
I have low subclasses also. Depending on which subclasses, combinations etc. it could mean many other things besides autoimmune.
Viruses, atypical bacteria, parasites, fungal and much more.
My subclasses are finally improving. One of them is now in the normal range.
Have you had an IgE drawn also?
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Nancy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 95
posted
Pocono Lyme........
Could you let us know how you got your subclasses to improve, besides treatment for Lyme and Co infections?
Thanx! Nancy
Posts: 1487 | From New England | Registered: Oct 2000
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Pocono Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5939
posted
Hi Nancy2,
I, of course, can't be certain, but by looking at my bloodwork and correlating it with my treatment, one of the subclasses went into normal range with the use of Alinia.
I have been on Babesia treatment for years, including Mepron, Art, Malarone, Larium(the only one I had results with, but relapsed), Primaquine with no change in the subclasses.
Now, two other subclasses are improving and I attribute that to a more recent treatment. My IgE has been consistently elevated. When put together with the total being low and two other specific subclasses, it is highly suspect that there is an allergic response to infection going on.
I will know more, hopefully, after I see a specialist in a couple of weeks.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like more specifics. Thanks
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
outlaw, I have a question. Did you start the IVIG at full dose or did you start low? I will start probably next week. Did you get the IV once a month and do you know about the costs? Do you know IGG 2000 can be taken orally as a powder. In case you need some longterm treatment.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
Thank you everyone for your helpful replies!
I got the exact levels today. Only IgG1 is low.
That makes me think that it's caused by lyme and co-infections, but I see my LLMD on 6/18 to get his opinion.
I'll post info. after my appt.
Thanks again everyone, Kim
-------------------- Misdiagnosed with CFS for 7 yrs. Diagnosed by LLMD in 2009. Aggressive treatment for 3 years with minimum improvement. Posts: 120 | From FL | Registered: Jun 2009
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
IgG deficiency can be genetic. Someone close to me has had this for years - it was discovered by an immunologist. He had a history of serious sinus infections which is typical of this type of deficiency.
Personally I suspect he has tick-borne diseases but we can't go there quite yet.
He does respond very well to IVIG - makes a big improvement.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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