posted
Anyone out there experience an increase in insomia (mostly early waking, some fractured sleep) after starting on the core Buhner protocol -- andrographis, cat's claw, resveratrol?
I took a few weeks off to see if that helped. Some, but it's still there, so maybe that's my answer...
Posts: 67 | From SF Bay Area | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Funny, I have the opposite effect with the ones you mention.
Especially, andrographis - it has me very sleepy all the time. Other than one or two times getting up during the night (andrographis is diuretic in nature for sure) but I'm right back to a deep sleep.
It has actually helped my sleep (although I still tend to stay up too late at night, mostly just a bad habit and enjoying the only time my apt is quiet). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
If you are getting toxic from die off (andro, cats claw and resveratrol can act as excellent killers), certainly, problems to sleep my arise.
If you add good cleansers to clean the die off (herxes), you can become sleepy as Keeber says.
If you are allergic or intolerant to any of these herbs (I had problems with resveratrol and Jap knotweed), then you can get very many wide range of symptoms (neurological, rashes, bloating, etc).
Nervousness made me wake up early or having trouble falling asleep.
High doses of cats claw and andrographis felt like killing me many times. My heart speeded up or I had like air hunger attacks. Once I even got paralyzed because I overdid (too much andro and still added loads of artemisinin). Bad idea.
Another possibility. It could be the critters only. As lyme and many co-infections are known to 'cause' insomnia. Go figure. The best way to know in my opinion is to get a good person testing you energetically. At least that will give you some clues.
Good luck.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
I think I'm just stumped as to what to do here. I have been off abx since the end of June, and other than the insomia, am doing really well. The insomnia didn't really kick in until I started the Buhner herbs in October. My sleep has improved since stopping the herbs, but I still find myself waking up at 5 or 6 in the morning (I go to bed around 11).
So if it's a die-off, should I just go back on the herbs and finish the job? (Basically a grin-and-bear it situation.)
Or, trust that getting the best night sleep possible (which seems more probable off the herbs) is the best thing for my immune system right now?
Posts: 67 | From SF Bay Area | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When talking about cat's claw be sure that you distinguish between cat's claw and Samento. Sometimes people interchange the two terms as if they are the same.
They are not the same thing and have different effects.
Regular cat's claw is much more calming to the nervous system (and that is why Buhner suggests only the pure cat's claw and not the TOA-free type such as Samento).
Samento does not have that same calming quality, due to the alteration (being TOA-Free).
The TOAs are what helps calm the nervous system. You want them in your cat's claw if you are on the Buhner protocol. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is timely: I just added in Samento as part of the Cowden protocol, and I have been noticing that when I get past about 5 drops I have an exacerbation of symptoms - itching, neuralgia in my back , and insomnia. So just for Lyme brain clarification, Samento is NOT TOA-Free?
Posts: 360 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Reread the thread and answered my own question. How long do the Samento herx periods last? How long does it take to ramp up to the 20 drops Cowden recommends?
Posts: 360 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Samento IS TOA-free.
But TOA-free is not what Buhner suggests as the person posing the question in this thread. The TOA-free will not calm the nervous system as the regular cat's claw does.
The Cowden protocol uses TOA-free for its own reasons. Buhner uses the whole product for his reasons. Just different.
If you want to search past posts discussing the differences/experiences, you can search here, specifically for "Cowden" :
Ramp up VERY slowly with Samento. One drop at a time, seriously. Follow the instruction of the protocol but some have to stay to adding just one drop a week. Much depends on your reaction. If you herx, back down. A strong herx is not desired. Just stay below that.
I put in a question on the planet thrive website. If I get an answer, I'll put an update over here at lymenet.
For now, I think I may try to re-introduce the herbs, one at a time, and see if I notice anything.
Posts: 67 | From SF Bay Area | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Also Buhner says resveratrol for bartonella, and bartonella seems often a culprit in sleep problems.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Herxing (from die-off) can cause insomnia, but it usually passes in a few days or possibly up to a couple of weeks for some antibiotics. If you are increasing dosages, insomnia might come back until you are used to the new dose.
I used the Buhner protocol and found that this only happened for me initially with the use of cats claw, or at the very first couple of days of using resveratrol.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic