posted
I don't know why that one article keeps getting reposted, but there is plenty of evidence that urinary neurotransmitter testing isn't good.
This article might be a little better since it cites the sources. There are medical journals pertaining to the subject, but they aren't easy to read through.
If you are testing for adrenal function or cortisol, again, there are tests on the market now that are very accurate and specific, and I hear the saliva cortisol test isn't bad either. These can be useful diagnostic tools.
As for testing for serotonin, that's a whole different story. I mentioned that a platelet test may be better, but there is contradicting information, and I really don't know much to comment on the accuracy. CSF is apparently the best way to measure neurotransmitters such as serotonin, but again, that's not an every day procedure, and I doubt a test like that would ever go mainstream.
That being said, while urinary neurotransmitter testing may not be perfect science, don't give up hope. By having hope, I believe answers will come, and you will heal. This test, scientifically supported or not, may lead you down the right path (if only by cooincidence). I don't think anyone here (including myself) is trying to put you down, so keep your head up. You aren't doing anything wrong with posting your experiences, and do not think people here are trying to hurt you. There is no need to defend yourself. Just keep hope and focus on healing.
-Kyle
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: You know, we could all made decisions by symptoms alone until the ends of the Earth. Lyme = clinical Dx; every co-infection = clinical Dx; Thyroid = clinical Dx;
I dont give much in "clinical diagnosis" .There are labs( for lyme, chronic inflammation ,thyrood ,HPTA - they are not perfect but they are there) . I go by labs. I know some people choose here to rely on clinical Dx but I personally have little faith in it - as symptoms are too vague of a thing to rely on imho
quote: anxiety/depression = clinical Dx.
Dont give a **** about those anymore. -No lab for it - I dont care.
If its something vague you can never put your finger on imho standard recommendations would do -exercises, diet and blah blah blah. - I mean if some thing magically relieves your symptoms its great , otherwise you could be doing and not knowing whether its helping or not.
quote: Really, when would it ever end? What proof would these alternative docs ever need to justify their supplement sales? Think about this carefully. I think it's territory for abuse at some point.
I dunno , frankly I haven't had the docs tried to sell me anything (except the dentist). I ask them about their opinion on various supps but I buy them online.
On the other hand I kinda feel its unfair people lash out on LLMDs for charging out of pocket. My current LLMD charges very reasonable fee per visit and she spends a lot more time than your standard in network doc ever would .In fact paying her out of pocket is cheaper than paying most of the insurance premiums (insurance covers labs though which is a biggy)
Regular docs charge same outrageous amount of money, for less service and no care!
posted
From my experience..many if not most of my doctors have gone by standard lab results except my LLMD and my homeopathic doctor.
Now that I am seeing an endocrinologist (whom my LLMD suggested) she basically told me all the testing my homeo did is not valid and I had many extremely expensive testing done.
1. NutrEval- in which they took 8 tubes of blood and did a comprehensive nutritional evaluation of oxidative stress-organic acids-amino acids-essential fatty acids-toxic and nutrient elements. I received a 26 page report and this test was thousands of dollars.
2. Breathlyzer-which they tested for yeast overgrowth in my stomach.
3. Stool test- which tested for parasites, mold, etc. Now on this test I had a high reading indicating celiac so I went to my gastro who was floored. I had the blood test for celiac earlier and it was totally negative. I wanted the biopsy and he said okay but the blood test is accurate and the stool is NOT.
So I guess my point is that in my opinion most of the mainstream docs believe nothing in these tests. I can tell you that my insurance covered all of these and I had to pay my 20 percent but that was alot of money.
Nothing ever came of these and they were all normal but the saliva test I personally believe in even though the endo does not.
When we are sick and struggling to find out a reason why we are not getting well I think if possible we have to do whatever we can to find out.
I am still struggling 5 years with chronic unrelenting fatigue which forced me unable to work anymore so whatever tests the doctor wants me to do I will if possible.
I do feel the NutrEval was very unecessary but my doctor didn't know what to do for me and wanted to give it a try.
There are always going to be controversy on which test is best but we are all doing what we think is right for each of us and I will continue to do so.
Derek- I am very curious to hear what your results will show on the saliva test. In fact I am going to ask my new doc to have me do another one in january when I see him just out of curiousity since my blood cortisol was in the normal range.
My LLMD or homeopathic never pushed supplements on me but suggested them and it was my choice. I usually went home and bought them online much cheaper...
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Abxnomore is quiet because I'm preparing for an extended vacation and will be gone for a long while but mostly because I have given you my opinions already numerous times and you guys are going in circles.
Neuro science is the lab that the large majority of alternative M.D.'s use and I have said it before. I have had excellent results with them and Kellerman, the head of the lab is world renowned, so why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? I've seen some of the top alternative doctors and they all use Neuro Science.
Medicare also pays for the testing. Medicare would not be paying for it, it they thought is was such unreliable nonsense, as I have been seeing alternative M.D.s for close to 25 years and there are still many tests that Medicare or any insurance won't pay for as they don't believe they are worthy.
Also, all of you have to stop thinking that mainstream doctors treat the same way an ACAM doctor does. They do not and have a different vision about how to achieve wellness.
It's a akin to the folks who call our LLMD's quacks for treating Lyme the way they do, so why is it so hard to make the leap that your LLMD or AMA doctor may not have all the answers or the latest cutting edge tools at his disposal?
We have been thru this before. A cortisol blood test is worthless and I have known that for at least 14 years but AMA doctors don't do cutting edge medicine. One needs to see the cortisol pattern and it is essential that you have four readings in a given day to see if your cortisol levels are in keeping with the rhythm of then bodies normal cortisol pattern. One blood test at any old time of the day will tell you squat, perhaps, get you a script for cortef which you may or may not need.
ACAM doctors use the cutting edge tools and delve much deeper in to issues that any AMA doctor and here and there you will find an AMA doctor who has branched out but it's not the norm. It's a different kind of training and knowledge.
There is no one here who has a serious case Lyme who does not have issues with adrenals, cortisol levels or neurotransmitters and,in fact, most of our population does because of our lifestyle.
Any serious stress, infection, illness, trauma, or accident could knock them all out of balance.
Those of you who have LLMD's who don't address these issues and are not using the right tests will always be behind the eight ball in terms of being able to heal and get well.
Google, read and educate yourselves about adrenals, cortisol levels and neuro transmitters and don't wait for any doctor to talk to you about it. When you understand it, go out and find someone who is good and get yourself the right help. These issues play just a big a role as ABX does in getting well.
Seek, sorry but if you don't get the picture about the big fees with the LLMD's then you don't understand the entire history about how they have come to be. No one likes to pay them and unfortunately some people can't even pay them and don't have access to some of the best LLMD's thou I do admit there are some very good ones that don't charge those high fees but it is what it is.
If you want to get well either you pay them or move to an area where you can find someone who is are in the minority who doesn't charge those big fees.
And, if you have an LLMD, no matter what his reputation is and you are not making progress after sticking it out a long while and feel he is not on the top of his game move on and find another one. And it's my strong opinion that mono therapy and low doses is a waste of time. Yes, I know some have gotten better that way but it prolongs the suffering and cannot effectively pass the blood brain barrier. Only high doses of orals will and even at that not as effectively as any IV will. Dr.B's protocol of aggressive treatment is what brings the results but still it can take many, many years and right now that is what we have to work with until some big break thru is made.
It's what you do with anything in life. When it's time to make a change we do it. Most of us have had to do doctor hopping after a while for a new perspective and approach. Sadly, it's just the way it goes and all of you should be doing your research and not relying solely on any LLMD but should be bringing ideas into them and being proactive patients. They don't have the "cure" yet and much of the treatment it is still trial and error to find the right combo's of ABX that will work until they no longer do so and need to be changed, so it goes without saying the you have to do the work along with them.
Massman, glad to see you are back.
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Abxnomore
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posted
Seekhelp, like any thing else there are good, not so good and bad ACAM doctors.
But, honestly I don't know where you are getting your information from.
If you are totally locked into an AMA model of medicine you are with many people who are but you are cutting yourself off from an entirely different perspective about how to achieve wellness.
Of course, you have a right to your own beliefs and what you feel comfortable with.
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Abxnomore
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posted
"Going back to your comment Massman, how many integrative doctors would have no problems whatsoever if the patient said I'll buy all my product elsewhere and you just do the diagnosing?"
Seek, I have seen integrative M.D.s for years. They write up a protocol and suggest the "good" pharmaceutical grade brands to buy but I have never been told that I had to buy them from them. I get them from my own sources for the best price I can find. My current doctor does not even stock any supplements.
If you have been seeing doctors that are forcing you to buy supplements from them, then there is something wrong with that picture but that is not the norm.
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posted
Now I am not sure what to think about the cortisol testing. My LLMD sent me to the endocrinologist in order to find out if they could do anything else for me.
That is why I ended up having the blood cortisol tested...just more confusion
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Abxnomore
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posted
The endo will not know how to properly deal with cortisol issues or adrenal issues. They look at them though a very narrow tunnel and only treat advanced problems with drugs.
They deal with the end result of these issues when left unattended for years, addison's and cushing's disease.
An ACAM doctor knows how to treat the whole body and will right off the bat give you an adrenal home kit to test your adrenal functioning. If he is really good, he will give you the neuro science kit that tests both adrenal function and neuro transmitters.
www.neurorelief.com The lab can give you a list of practitioners in your area that use their lab.
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djf2005
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Member # 11449
posted
Abxnomore-
Thanks for chiming in.
When you went through NS for your testing, was it saliva and urine?
I simply could not go through NS due to the fact that my Dr was not a member and financially I can not afford a new Dr just for this testing.
I understand IP may be inferior but I am hoping it's results are along the same lines.
At this point this thread has gotten so far away from actual discussion regarding neuro-transmitter testing that I have little desire to continue posting anything on it.
Everyone seems to be an expert. LOL
If only that were so.
It is clear that urine analysis is not 100% perfect nor may it be the best way to measure Nts.
It is however, one way to go about it, and not a bad alternative to a 600$ test that is not covered by insurance.
When I get my urine results for the NTs, I may or may not post back. At this immediate moment I am getting very close to losing the desire to share altogether. The saliva is used for cortisol alone I believe.
As Abxnomore said, this thread has been going in circles and has really served little puspose.
I started this thread in an effort to gain more info on a specific kind of testing and as usual, it's side-tracked with personal opinions and agendas that have little to do w/ the actual topic.
Personal venting, recommendation, and the like, which again, have little to nothing to do w/ the actual topic.
If LN members could maintain a "lets help one another out" mentality it would be so much more effective. Even when we disagree, rather than saying "this will not work" would it not be more productive to say "perhaps this will work better" instead and leave the incessant complaining and negativity to one's self?
I will not give up trying new alternatives, re-searching new possibilities, and keeping my focus on what really matters.
I will however get to a point personally, where LN becomes a distant memory, because through the above measures I will once again be well.
I think in the near distant future I am going to develop a website to share my journey with others thus avoiding all the wasted time on this forum.
Agreeing to disagree is one thing but what occurs on LN as of late is a whole 'nother thing.
I mean no disrespect to any of you through the above statements, and I wish you all continued healing and success in your journey.
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Derek,
I used neuroscience panel 9028 and have used it many times. The neuro transmitters are tested thru the urine and the cortisol thru saliva.
I don't claim to be an expert but am sharing my experience and my vast improvement by using this lab and this process.
I have been free of lyme and co's for about eight years but battled it for almost twenty. So, I have lots of experience in the fight to get well.
Having Lyme so long, it left it's mark and one of them was a major upset in my brain chemistry, i.e, neuro transmitters. My adrenal function is pretty much back in balance but I'm still working on it and I think because of having Lyme it will always be an issue for me. I think the Lyme so stressed my CNS that I simply don't deal well with any stress and will always need adrenal and possibly neuro transmitter support.
As with anything, there will always be different opinions. This work with neuro transmitters is relatively new in the scheme of things and pretty cutting edge. And, I have been to AMA doctors, neurologists, who have told me that the neuro transmitters levels cannot be tested. They simply don't believe it and have their head in a tunnel.
The only lab I have ever used or have seen any doctor use is Neuro Science. It seems to be the most popular and widely used one, at least for now.
If you can't use them I guess you can try another lab. I have never heard of the others, so can't offer an opinion on them. If you go to the ACAM site you may be able to find a doctor there that may work within your special personal parameters and uses Neuro Science.
All I can say is if you want to beat this illness you must leave no stone unturned and you must combine both the work of an LLMD and an integrative approach. If you have an LLMD who does both and really is well trained with lots of years of experience with an integrative approach then you are one lucky person. And there are some LLMDs that fit that description but not many.
I agree with you about what you have said about the site. That's why I'm taking a hiatus.
But what is taking place is a combination of human nature, the nature of the illness, the outside forces that are against us and come him to troll using false monikers and those that suffer with the illness as well and have a different vision for the Lyme community.
The Lyme community is divided and has been for many years and some either directly or indirectly come here to cause chaos for the purpose of distracting and to take us off message.
It's very unfortunate but I doubt you will find a place that does not have these issues. Take from this site what you need and can learn from and just keep in mind that we are in the middle of one controversial illness with a disease that no one can understand unless they have walked in our shoes.
Don't ever give up no matter how long it takes. Just keep doing what you are doing. Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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northstar
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posted
quote: Now on this test I had a high reading indicating celiac so I went to my gastro who was floored. I had the blood test for celiac earlier and it was totally negative. I wanted the biopsy and he said okay but the blood test is accurate and the stool is NOT.
Gastro's? Harumph....the last one said there was no lyme in my state. Another said there were no such thing as parasites.....so I feel that they are not always well-informed.
I think the blood test is for genetic celiac. Stool test will measure antibodies.
There are 2 types of celiac conditions: genetic and acquired/sensitive.
The gut system in tickborne diseases is affected, and the triggers (wheat, barley, etc) can have negative effect because of the inflamed system and/or enzyme dysregulation, just as a genetic celiac. To some, this is labelled "leaky gut".
Also, there are some hld-dr types that can predispose sensitivity, but still not be a true celiac.
So the MD may not be aware of these nuances & other conditions.
This may be why the gluten reduced/gluten free diet is recommended for some time.
The "one shot" cortisol test is only measuring at that point in time.
It does not register a daily pattern, such as low a.m./high p.m.(which is reverse of normal),
nor can it discriminate effects such as temporary stress in having to go to the lab, etc,which is another "point in time" effect.
I prefer the multiple sample, since it showed high p.m. cortisol, which can be addressed with various supplements.
Low morning cortisol can be addressed too with an a.m. supplement. Then there are adrenal modulators for an overall effect.
However, I did want the blood test to confirm the first a.m. saliva cortisol, which it did. So I operated on the principle that the other saliva readings were an adequate representation, and the pattern was obvious. I also looked at how I felt/acted (historically), to see if it represented the pattern.
Combining info, with lots of reading (including medline), can help. Maybe there is info online about the NS results, to help guide supplementation.
Be alert to listed toxic levels for some of the supplements, if you are supplementing from various sources. I did a grid sheet once to be sure certain vit/min totals were not approaching this level, including estimated dietary intake. Selenium and vit E+A come to mind here, especially chemical vs. natural forms.
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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This doctor suggests that the only way to correct NT imbalances is to "provide the basic amino acid precursors or building blocks so the body can replenish the inadequate neurotransmitter levels"
Would you mind Pm'ing me the name of which LLMD you use?
Hope you don't ave to go out in this beautiful snowstorm we're having! Please do let us know the results of your NT tests.
Danni
-------------------- ---------- Danni Posts: 311 | From Glen Mills, PA | Registered: Jan 2009
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Roz- (I think that's your name, right?)
Thank you for sharing the information as well as your encouraging words. You are one of the few people who's opinion I find to be unbiased and usually informative, I appreciate that.
I suspect the same as you, I still have many symptoms, but the brain chemistry is way off.
I have gone down the road of blindly medicating the symptoms through a LLP which never resulted in anything but worsening of symptoms.
NT testing peaked my interest when I saw it initially because if I could actually see what was happening, I could learn how to better correct it. I still believe this can be done.
If my experience w/ IP is not acceptable, I will simply push my Dr a little harder to get signed up w/ NS. He currently uses Aeron Life Cycles for regular saliva adrenal testing and correction but does not have a provider for NT testing at this point.
He is not against NS in anyway, just extremely busy and hard to get through to. Persistence is key with him as it is with Lyme.
I would say that I am a lucky person as far as my LLMD goes, he is rather integrative from my own personal experience as well as the patients I know that see him (there are quite a few, he is Dr B's predecessor)
I went through 5 llmds before arriving at his doorstep, but beyond completely changing the paradigm and seeing DK (which is a possibility) I feel that I am in a good place.
As with anyone, I am left to do much of my own reading, learning, and overall healing, but he has the tools and knowledge necessary to get me and others into a better place of health. If/when I plateau, I will begin to go down other avenues. (heck, I already am. lol)
I agree that there is no perfect forum, and that we as people, especially w/ lyme, cannot and will not be perfect. The processes that are set in motion in each individual thread are fueled by so many things rarely of which is unbiased sharing of information.
This leaves LN and message boards in general far from their full potential. Nonetheless, I am grateful to have them because flawed as they may be, they have been a means for sharing and learning of which I do not know how else I would have attained.
Anyway, I won't ever give up, and I appreciate your kind words. Keep keeping on is the only way through this mess, and keeping an unbiased, informed, and open mind is the key I believe.
Enjoy your vacation/breather from LN, and come back when you can. You are an asset to the lyme community, no doubt about it.
Also, your PM capability is turned off I see, I was hoping there might be a way I could get in touch w/ you outside of LN.
If so, please PM me w/ the info or email me, and if not, I understand.
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Abx- I know you are headed on a vacation and I hope it is relaxing and recharging.
But please do come back to LymeNet. It is frustrating when posts become contentious but know that in the bigger picture, your experience is of great help to many, including me.
Have a great trip!
-------------------- ---------- Danni Posts: 311 | From Glen Mills, PA | Registered: Jan 2009
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
there are links to discussions of neurotransmitters, metabolic by products, levels,amino acids etc.
Sometimes measuring indirectly can be better than directly.
(this is a link to metametrix.com, with a search for neurotransmitter metabolism).
North
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Abxnomore
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posted
Thank you all for your kind words. A vacation recharge is certainly needed. Haven't had one in a long while.
Derek, no I don't have any Lyme symptoms at all thru all these years. It's purely adrenal issues and brain chemistry problems that any person with depression, anxiety and a host of other issues can have. I also have my share of personal problems that contribute to these issues.
Also, note that the targeted supplements that neuro science uses are primarily amino acids and precursors. It's a very good line of products and I have used other products in the past recommended by past physicians before I found Neuro Science and didn't have the same kind of results I am getting now.
Also, Derek, I know who your LLMD is and I think you are in good hands but as you said you still, as the patient, have to do exactly what you are doing. Research, learn and be proactive.
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posted
Derek- I just wanted to say that my LLMD (Dr. H) had my saliva tested through Aeron 2 years ago along with DHEA so I have used both NS and Aeron laboratories.
Kim
Posts: 343 | From North Carolina | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
northstar- yes the stool was for antibodies and my doctor is the one who sent me to the gastro to have the endoscopy with biopsy done to check for celiac.
thank you for the great information and I will have to think some more about getting another saliva test done. it has been 2 years now since my previous one.
i don't want to hijack derek's post anymore so that is all from me.
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djf2005
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posted
Kim-
You used NS through Dr H at some point or just Aeron?
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Derek- I just used Aeron through Dr. H My doctor here had me use NS. One was done in October 2006 (NS) and the other in November 2007
Both results were very different from one another but the first one I was not on cortef and the second one I was.
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djf2005
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posted
Thanks
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
seekhelp
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posted
Have a good vacation Abxnomore!
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sixgoofykids
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posted
For those of you on this therapy, did you have symptoms adjusting to the NT's?
I have been feeling out of sorts, still feeling well, mostly dizzy, but more than dizzy, not dizzy like a kid spinning in circles, more like taking a prescription painkiller.
I can take a certain dosage with no symptoms, but when I increase the dosage (I'm still not where my doc wants me to be), then I have symptoms.
My husband keeps trying to get me to stop taking them, but from what I've read the symptoms are from severe depletion, so I feel I should push through it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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seekhelp
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posted
Why are you taking anything Six when you say you're 100% improved already?
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Seek -- physically six may be 100%, but there is always more we are searching for, at least for me. Like how to totally understand why we need any medication or certain supplements. You could be sleeping well but only if you take a herbal relaxer. Why?
So you can feel 100% healthy, but not be 100% balanced. Or maybe 100% isn't the final goal.
Once you get to remission, remission by itself isn't the end goal. There is still more to learn. I know I'd like to reverse hair loss. Maybe if I used rife and LED's with some exotic homeopathic frequencies derived from plant material encased in ice during the jurasic period, with a topical application of emu oil and propecia, maybe I'll again have curly golden locks (alright : i never had curly golden locks but straight oily hair).
So just because your in remission, does it mean it stops there? What about the fear of relapse? There still going to be a bit of insecurity. So in some ways, once a chronic lymie always a chronic lymie, well maybe not. There is always going to be some experimentation into new things. Especially when we've experienced the difference new things can have, like LED, homeopathy, herbals, rife, and conventional medicine (sometimes).
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Thanks ever sooooo much massman.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: Why are you taking anything Six when you say you're 100% improved already?
Hi Seek, good question.
I went to a new doctor for my thyroid meds since my script was almost gone. My LLMD didn't want to treat thyroid alone, can't blame him since he's a Lyme specialist.
I told the new doctor (an MD who uses alternative treatments) that I was taking 5 HTP for sleep. I don't sleep well without it. He said it wasn't balanced and would deplete other hormones, so he recommended the NT's
I'm having the reaction to them that a person who is severely depleted has. So, even though I feel 100%, I can still do things to optimize my health so I don't get sick from this again. It makes sense that I would be depleted nutritionally since I was so sick for so long.
What I'm feeling is not a herx. It's a dizziness from my body absorbing the NT's. Now that I've been on the new dosage a couple days, I'm doing fine again .... so I need to increase again until I get to the full dose.
In addition to this, I also do a lot of detox because after Lyme and its biotoxins, plus treatment and its toxins, I figure I need more detoxification than the average person.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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djf2005
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posted
I think your new Dr seems to know a bit, especially about 5-htp offsetting dopamine while producing serotonin.
Seems like a very good fit for where you are right now.
I am coming to find the amino acid precursors need to be used in harmony w/ one another according to the individual's needs as your Dr. and CHK say.
I also am currently taking 5-htp, but that will change once the NT testing comes in and hopefully I will have a more well rounded idea of what I can take that will help rebalance all the NTs rather than taking 5-htp which only boosts serotonin while depleting dopamine.
It's a delicate dance.
Neuroreplete is also hard to get I am coming to find, it must be through a Dr. I usually can find almost anything (like xymogen) that is usually though a Dr but this one is tricky. lol.
Hope it continues to help you six. I will post results and what I am going to do w/ the NTs for tx once I know.
Neuroreplete is an option though in the back of my mind, as it is sound theory and looks like a good product IMO.
You don't just take this @ bedtime but throughout the day? I am wondering if that's causing some of the dizziness, etc, because 5-htp converts so serotonin which converts to melatonin which could be causing your reactions?
I think its intended to take during the day but personally I could never take 5-htp or any of those during wake hours, theyd make me sedated and dizzy for sure.
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
I'll keep posting my results, too. Maybe your LLMD can get Neuroreplete for you since only docs can buy it.
One other thing I haven't mentioned. I get tired at night now. I was starting to get a little tired at night prior to taking these, but now, I'm really tired and ready for bed at a normal bedtime.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Okay, I take it back, I'm not adjusted to the third dose. I do fine with the first two, then the third makes me feel drugged.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Shosty
Unregistered
posted
Neuroscience was a disaster for our daughter. She literally lost her mind. She was quite sane off the supplements, beforehand.
Although her integrative medicine doctor helped her a lot with things like allergies, she ended up leaving him after the horrible experience she had on Neuroscience supplements.
The testing is interesting, but it is done mainly so that patients will them take the supplements.
The supplements contain multiple ingredients, and when you take more than one formula, as many of the "individual" plans suggest, you end up with much too much of certain things, which approach being toxic, according to my reading.
The formulations are proprietary and only the doctor can request information on ingredients. So our daughter had no idea how much 5HTP or theanine or taurine or vitamin B6 etc. that she was actually taking.
This is quite simply, outrageous.
Our daughter is very sensitive. When we found out, finally, since we INSISTED with the MD, what the ingredients and dosages were, we discovered that the levels of many were way too high for her.
She truly went crazy on these supplements, and it took months for her to get back to any shape resembling herself.
I will say that Neuroscience reimbursed us for all the supplements.
If you do use NS supplements, find out the levels of all the ingredients before you start, and research what you yourself might need. Watch for accumulations with all the different formulas.
Consider using single-ingredient sprays, offered by NS, so that you have more control over your intake, and start LOWER than they suggest.
You can also read their suggested plan for you, then buy the ingredients separately at your local health store. 5HTP and theanine and taurine and vitamins are all easy to find.
If you take 5 HTP, read up on it. Even the strongest proponents sometimes suggest taking it 5 days in a week, then taking a break.
This Neuroscience stuff is NOT harmless.We feel that our daughter's MD was reckless. He is now in a new practice that is based mainly on NS, so we think our daughter was a guinea pig as he moved in that direction. He wanted a miracle cure to brag about, but that is not what he got.
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
The Neuroreplete formulas do have the ingredients on the bottle, maybe they didn't used to, but they do now.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Thanks for the advice and tips, sorry for your experience.
I would be wary of taking anything w/o knowing what was in it and the dosages.
Once IP has my results, I'll see what they recommend. I don't think I have ever taken something w/o knowing exactly what was in it, just not worth the risk. I won't be taking a "blend" of anything w/o knowing what comprises the blend.
We'll see what happens, I don't think messing w/ one's neurotransmitters is harmless either, but I do hope/think it can be done it an appropriate setting w/ the aim of correcting already imbalanced NTs.
I guess like any therapy it's based on the individual, how informed and diligent they are, as well as how genuine and helpful the practitioner is. All variables in any therapy.
Take Care
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Just to add and emphasize that Neuroscience does sell single ingredient sprays. These are absorbed in the mouth, which is also good, and the doses for each spray are low so there is more control w/dosing.
Our daughter is very sensitive. We had enormous trust in this doctor, who had done miracles for her. Generally, we are not too trusting of MD's!
Hope our lesson learned helps someone else, but sounds like you are on the right path with making sure you know the ingredients, and will avoid blends.
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
Update-
I got my kit from IP.
Turns out they just outsource to NS (surprise), so my test kit is actually from NS (specific test- expanded profile 9605)
The testing will be run through NS, not IP, and the results also from NS. I guess IP is just a 3rd party in this scenario, signing off on the testing and will most likely recommend their supplements/meds to correct what imbalances are found instead of NS products.
The testing (9605) includes a slew of NTs (1x urine) along w/ 4x saliva collection for adrenals. (the whole kit is completed in one day)
I will update once the results are in, which should be in 1-2 weeks.
I am optimistic and excited about this testing but cautiously guarded at the same time.
We will see.
I was also told by IP via email that their belief is that urine is more reliable than a blood test for NTs. Not trying to start a fire here and it it not my opinion, just passing along info.
One thing that strikes me; if blood tests were the most accurate to run, why wouldn't NS run them since they are the world leader in NT testing? (at least most prolific)
Best
Derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Maybe the blood platelet testing is more expensive. If insurance won't cover, it means less sales for them. THerefore, they promote the test that'll generate them revenue as that's why they exist? Just a guess.
quote:Originally posted by djf2005:
I was also told by IP via email that their belief is that urine is more reliable than a blood test for NTs. Not trying to start a fire here and it it not my opinion, just passing along info.
One thing that strikes me; if blood tests were the most accurate to run, why wouldn't NS run them since they are the world leader in NT testing? (at least most prolific)
Best
Derek
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
The blood test is not covered by ins because it's only done by one lab right now, which is Vitamin diagnostics in NJ.
My thoughts are if blood testing was more effective, you'd think NS has the ability to do that type of testing and would do so.
There is no logic as to why a given ins. co. or medicare would deny a simple mono blood test over a test which includes saliva and urine which seems to involve more.
I am going to try to contact NS directly and ask them why they do not offer blood testing.
It just does not make sense. I think the reason ins. does not currently cover VD is because they do not accept any ins., not vice-versa.
If a lab like NS offered the platelet testing, I'd be willing to bet with the volume NS does that they would be able to work something out w/ ins./medicare
Also, compare the prices. My test was almost 500$ which is very close to the platelet test cost from VD. Again, why would ins./medicare deny this testing over the other ones? It does not make sense.
It really doesn't matter anyway, I don't want to turn this thread into a testing method discussion, as I do agree there is always more at work with any company than just "our" best interests.
That being said, I still believe and know that there are good people who want to help others and I would rather put my resolve in that.
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