posted
I have read that clove oil at hight doses is helpful for bartonella. What is the brand, dose strength etc. It is very very bad and getting much worse. rages, suicidal, shin pain, auditory hallucinations, neck pain, blurred vision, insomnia, severe brain swelling, exhaustion. I have been using teasel flower essence but this seems to be making bartonella symptoms much much worse...please help. pm please
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Most people would hesitate sending an email for privacy concerns so I hope you come back to read replies.
First: Do you have a LLMD who is guiding your treatment?
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I would not bank on clove oil being the ticket to success. In the right manner it may be helpful, to a degree, but I'd not put all my money on it as a singular ticket to health.
In fact, as for clove oil, or ANY essential oil, please be very careful as they can burn very badly. The esophagus can be damaged very easily from some essentials oils if too strong.
Clove oil is helpful for gum issues, usually a drop or two on the hurting gum line for a toothache and it mixes with saliva and gets swallowed but that is just one drop. Even that is too strong for some people.
Teasel (which helps some and not others) is not an essential oil. Clove oil is. And all essential oils can burn if not handled precisely with a carrier oil and using just ONE drop in proportion to a great amount of carrier oil (say almond oil).
Also to note, some essential oils are not for internal use under any circumstances.
And not all essential oils are equal in quality.
In addition to "recipes" you might get here, be sure to do a thorough search of professional sites for essential oils and compare notes. One good site for study is YOUNG LIVING - you can find through Google.
You might also find a formula, already blended and ready for consumer use.
For now, if you have clove oil, you might put a few drops on an tissue and BREATHE it in. The aroma therapy can work wonders as it actually can prompt changes in the brains chemistry - just from breathing it. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
North American Herb and Spice carries a pre-diluted clove oil (in EV olive oil). Not sure of dosing for bartonella.
Posts: 236 | From Illinois | Registered: Feb 2009
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
I was doing clove bud oil diluted with coconut oil in capsules. I have pain on the right side since then, maybe the oil was too strong.
I also had it rubbed in my feet without a lot of herx. Oregano oil caused herxes but they have been too bad.
I just wanted to get started with teasel root.
Are you sure you have bartonella or the Fry protozoan?
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
Do you have an LLMD? Hubby has been battling the Fry/Clongen mystery bug or BLO for a couple of years now.
Has not tried the clove oil. Forgot about it actually. As far as herbs, HH from Dr Zhang was somewhat helpful, but did not get rid of the bug. I would order the HH2 as it is less expensive and supposedly twice as strong.
Hubby had some success with liquid cryptolepis from Woodland Essences at very high doses, but there was a shortage of the herb for several months and we ran out. Have not been able to repeat the results when he restarted the herb. He was taking 15 droppers or 1/2 ounce 3 times per day. Took about a month to work up to that dose. Normal dose for babs is 5 droppers 3 times per day. this can get very expensive as well.
As for meds, Levaquin used to be the magic bullet. But it also lost effectiveness. Factive pulsed with Tindamax was a disaster. Cipro in the past never did much.
Currently hubby is on Rifampin, Minocycline and Clindamycin and not seeing much improvement.
I wish I had some answers as to what works, but I don't. I do think a combo of at least 2 or even better would be 3 different bart meds at once. I think whatever this bug is it develops resistance to many meds quickly.
I think the bee venom ointment from Dancing Bee Acres is also helpful. I rub a very small amount on hubby's feet before bed.
Good luck.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Fry test positive for mystery bug bartonella like organism. Is the cryptolepsis helping with this?? Just am so very sick. Herx so badly with everything coptis, clove pills, teasel flower essence, etc. I also have babesia duncani slightly positive through igenex plus erlichia and candida. Any help would be most appreciated.
Posts: 67 | From cape cod | Registered: Aug 2006
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
North American Herb and Spice is what Dr.S recommends but he does not give the dose, doesn't give the dose for anything in his book. I tried using it but it was too strong for my stomach. I tried rubbing it on my skin and it burned too badly. I also tried putting it on my shins (that hurt) with DMSO to increase penetration. Boy was that ever a mistake! I looked like a beet but tolerated the pain hoping it would "do somthing". It didn't. Levaquin knocked it down for me but I got tendonitis really badly and had to quit using it after five weeks. I could not tolerate chemicals so that is when I started herbs. I worked myself up to 20 HH capsules a day but relapsed after several months. Now it seems to be extremely resistant. I have been taking Rifampin and zithro for over two months with very little progress.
My LLMD told me there are some herbs that help with lyme but nothing works with the BLO. I did not believe him and look where it got me. I think you need to do abx, find the right combination that works against the strain that you have. Then you might trying adding herbs on top of the abx. Japanese knotweed is supposed to help - basically the same thing as resveratrol. You have to take a lot of it.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
I have spoken with an LLMD I know on this and this is what he said. Basically, just as one sock does not fit us all, neither does one dosage on herbs/meds, so perhaps there are no dosages in the book for this reason.
Clove bud oil is mentioned but can cause liver failure at a useful dose, so needs to be used cautiously. Massive liver support, not just a couple weak pills.
Also, oil of artemisia and it's derivatives have potential serious risks unless used at modest killing doses. If using it at too low a dose or at too high a dose and causing damage .... why bother to use at all?
Again, from an LLMD I know ..... I'm not familiar with these treatments myself.
You can beat bartonella .... I have .... so don't get too discouraged. Hang in there!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
When I couldn't use the abx I was pm'd by two or three people who had consulted with Dr. S about bartonella treatment. As he cannot prescribe them drugs on the telephone he could only recommend herbal treatment.
They were told to take 20-25 HH capsules a day. One person thought he was doing much better.
I could not afford 20 a day and was taking 12 and then 16. When the new HH-2 capsule came out, which is twice as strong, I could finally take the full amount. While waiting for an order I went five days taking massive amounts of clove bud oil and Cumanda. Anyway I relapsed and this time around it is much harder to get the bartonella under control with abx and an arsenal of supplements.
So be careful. It is hard to tell when you are herxing versus when you are backsliding. If you don't have good days, they are all bad and getting worse, it is probably not working for you.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
re: cryptolepis
They do have it in stock at Woodland. I don't think I have Bart - I'm taking it for Babesia. I've only been taking about 15 drops, 2-3X per day so far. It took me about a week to work it up to that. Cumanda was also very strong for me.
Bea - I can't believe your hubby was taking so much. Seems pretty strong to me. Like 6goofy said - we all have individual needs for dosage.
You really do have to be careful with essential oils. They are quite strong. I have not tried clove oil. How about the ground herb?
Bart seems very difficult... I don't know if I have it - I haven't had the typical symptoms. Good luck.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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