posted
I had a very bad adverse reaction to ABX and was wondering if anyone in the group has gotten well without ever using antibiotics and only Rife and Cs or Cowden. I have been very sick for 20 months, not diagnosed for 14 months, had to sell my practice and now live with my mother-in-law and was wondering if rife and CS can help me without ever using ABX. I am 51 years old and was very healthy before this all started. Sincerely, Dr.Dave DC
Posts: 41 | From Pa | Registered: Jan 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- There are far more choices than the 3 you mention and, yes, many have seen good improvement with rife, I know. One person here has seen good help with the Vitamin C/Sea Salt protocol (Gael).
I'm not familiar with Cowden but will come back with an annotated bibliography comparing many of the complementary routes for your study.
While 20 months and your circumstances are serious, you have a far better chance than many here who went undx for a decade or two. You have every reason for hope.
The harder you work the luckier you get! Posts: 965 | From Nebraska Cornhuskers fan in Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First, just to be sure you have some of the details here:
This explains WHY a lyme patient needs an ILADS-educated doctor, whether an LLMD or a LL ND (naturopathic doctor). Being ILADS-educated means they have some of the basic details that other doctors don't.
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" -(author's details at link)
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
Meet the players
The opponents in the battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease are the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), the largest national organization of general infectious disease specialists, (and)
and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS), an organization made up of physicians from many specialties. ( www.ilads.org )
ILADS, by contrast, asserts that the illness is much more common than reported, underdiagnosed, easier to contract than previously believed, difficult to diagnose through commercial blood tests, and difficult to treat, (especially)
especially when treatment is delayed because of commonly encountered diagnostic difficulties ( http://www.ilads.org/guidelines.html - Accessed April 6, 2007).
. . .
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results.
- Full article at link above, containing MUCH more detailed information.
-===
Co-infections (other tick-borne infections or TBD - tick-borne disease) are not discussed in this article due to space limits. Still, any LLMD you would see would know how to assess/treat if others are present.
================
And, not everything is lyme - AND - lyme patients often have a mix of chronic stealth infections.
A nonprofit institute dedicated to discovering new diagnostic and therapeutic solutions for chronic mycoplasma infections.
=====================
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
Hi Doc,
As Keebler mentioned the salt/c (sea salt) protocol has saved my life along with antiparasitic herbs. Parasites and worms can play a MAJOR part in Lyme disease.
This is EXACTLY what poured out of me. Burgdorfer found Adult Filarial Worms in the ticks he dissected. Unfortunately this has been ignored.
Also do a search on here for parasites and Lyme. Hope this helps,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
IGENEX - information about testing. Fry labs is also good for some tests and, for other stealth infections, see Timaca's thread, below.
================
Whichever path(s) you take regarding even just lyme, complete knowledge of the spirochete (in all its forms, stages and cycles) is essential. So, too, is knowledge of biofilm.
Even with Rx approach, liver support and protection, as well as adrenal support are absolutely vital to success. There is no way around that.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Now, after all those links - trying to be sure you have the basics - what Gael says about parasites is very important.
For some reason, in 20th century America, very important subject was dismissed: parasites.
As a doctor, you'll be aware of cautions with salt and you probably know that SEA salt is different in many regards. As long as you've done the check list of considerations the Vitamin C/Salt protocol may be very helpful as an adjunct.
If you have diabetes, kidney dysfunction or arrhythmia, with SEA salt it may still be workable if you are careful - or you can explore other methods to address possible (or most likely, probable) parasites.
It is as important to consider this aspect as it is to include liver and adrenal support to whichever path you take.
I'm assuming that, since you are a D.C., this won't be so overwhelming for you. Still, there is a great deal of self-education even for those lucky enough to have a good LL doctor. And, it's no walk in the park, so good luck.
posted
I agree with Keebler, you need an ILADS llmd.
As to what works....I don't think anyone can answer that question with 100% certainty.
I know abx has helped my family, but I also believe there is no absolute cure with this illness. And I'll be honest, the more I read about rife, the more I go hmmmmm, maybe this could work.
You wouldn't happen to be from Hellertown, Pa.? I knew of a Dr. Dave (Chiropractor) from there when I lived there- (and that's also where my whole family got sick). Just a hunch. Wish you the best.
Posts: 554 | From Naples, Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
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pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
You should search here for Selma's protocols. She didn't take abx, and she cured herself of everything with her extensive protocols.
She posted as "selmanaka" or "hardynaka", later as "Brussels".
She did a lot of far-out things, which all worked. I can post long,long quotes from her posts, but probably just read the originals. She followed Dr K, used Buhner and other herbs, plus homeopathics, and Farah's essential oils, and later found the PE-1 plus external homeopathic nosodes to be the best solution. It's a long story... It's really amazing. She's my hero.
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Rife type frequency treatments have been the one thing that has continued to keep my wife functioning normally in spite of Lyme.
There are many effective treatments, but she is not able to tolerate most of them. Frequency treatments do not have some of the side effects that many other treatments do have.
I hope you can find an effective treatment you can live with. I know another DC with Lyme. I really should go talk to him and see how he is doing.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Yes - in my opinion and experience it is possible. I do think antibiotics play a role but they don't have to be the only part.
-------------------- BTW - I am NOT a medical professional - just speaking from MY own personal experience. Posts: 266 | From Philadelphia | Registered: May 2005
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Thank you for all your replies...i don't know how to use this forum so not sure who will see this ...sorry. I just wanted to know who has beat this without ABX since I can not take them. I have a LLMD but he only uses ABX. I have had all the tests and then some to the tune of $8500 lukily insurance picked up most. I am pretty healthy on paper. Igenix picked up band 41++ and 4 others IND and a positive erlichia, I have Iron Loading(too much iron) and My killer and helper Cells are low, CD57 is 138 up from 55 a year ago. So most likely I have Lyme. I own an EMEM5 and can get CS at a reasonable price. I just want to know iF anyone out there on this forum beat this that I can converse with. I have Spoken with Lauren, Dan B., Scott F., thanks!!!!and am Looking for more Rife success stories and how you all are doing. Thanks and Blessings to all you who are dealing with this. Dr.Dave DC
Posts: 41 | From Pa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Dr.Dave... I just clicked on your profile and noticed your profession.
Do you happen to have a diathermy machine? My 'best weapon' has been an old diathermy machine that is pulsed so it acts sort of like a Rife machine. Depending on one's symptoms even an unmodified diathermy may be a big help.
We went through about all the antibiotics we could handle and afford and were better but still pretty un-well. That is when I got interested in Rife machines and started experimenting with different designs trying to get closer to the original and more effective than what is presently available for sale.
I am still searching for clues in that regard, but we are both physically active and enjoying reasonably good health now. We still need to use the machines for a few minutes every day or the stuff slowly starts coming back.
Another stone age simple thing that nobody seems to bother with these days is checking for old fashioned worm infections. (We treat out pets for them, don't we?)
One commonly overlooked one is Strongyloides stercoralis. I was having lung problems and severe sinus headaches. I have microscopes and looked at my sinus drainage for evidence of infection, and instead found wads of these transparent worm-like things about a millimeter long.
I was able to identify them as dead Strongyloides larvae with the aid of a textbook. They are more difficult to eradicate than official sources will tell you, but persistence with Ivermectin (Stromectol) will get them under control as well as the symptoms they are causing.
So... don't overlook the really simple things that are easier to deal with than Lyme itself. Dealing with those 'other issues' can go a long way to helping you feel better.
Regards, James H, a Lyme Survivor
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
By the way, James is one of the most experienced people when it comes to using frequencies to treat Lyme.
I always listen closely to anything he has to say on the matter.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Hey everyone, I talked to most of you on the phone and have gained a lot of knowledge and feel confident i will return to wellness in time without ABX.
James
I do not have a Diathermy machine however I will be gaining access to a coil machine and I have a D.T. EMeM5 and will be looking for guidance as I begin treatment.
I talked in length to John S. and gave me some really good info about using a coil machine. what machine do you have experience with?
Dr. Dave
Posts: 41 | From Pa | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I have gone off in a different direction with Rife machines. The machines that can be purchased or are commonly built can be quite helpful, but none have yet equaled the effectiveness reportedly achieved by the machines Royal Rife himself was experimenting with in the 1930's. I have been trying to improve upon what we can do with the present generation of machines. We have a few pictures of Royal Rife's machines and quite a bit of information, but there are some things abut them that will have to be re-discovered.
One thing I see is that there are different types of these 'electromedical devices' that can help us with our ailment that may be our own inventions. And, different approaches may work better for certain diseases than others, or for different phases of the same disease.
The 'coil machines' for instance are reportedly effective against Lyme in the spirochete form, and their proponents recommend against using them with antibiotics based on the antibiotics forcing the spirochetes into cell wall deficient forms that the coil machine is said to not be effective against. That is the operating theory at least, and whether the theory is correct or not these machines seem to help people.
Of course our immune systems also do that to them, so a Lyme infection is still going to have a lot of cell wall deficient forms we have to deal with. Wouldn't it be nice to design a machine that targeted the cell wall deficient forms instead of the spirochete?
Knowing that Rife's original frequencies for different diseases were in a radio frequency range from about 200 khz to 2,000 khz, I have been concentrating in that range instead of in the audio range that everyone else is using. By trying some things others are not maybe I can get some different results.
Back to the diathermy based design... What I was able to do here was take an existing piece of equipment, an old vacuum tube diathermy machine with condenser pad applicators, and turn it into a 200 watt Rife machine that does physical therapy on aching body parts at the same time.
By adding some circuitry that includes a large transistor I am able to connect a frequency generator to the diathermy machine and switch its output on and off at up to 2,000,000 times per second. Thus it can operate at the high frequencies that Rife himself used.
Instead of SOME of the energy radiating from a plasma tune into one's body as is usually the case with plasma tube machines, the full energy passes through the parts of the body between the condenser pads of the diathermy machine.
Now, you can readily see cell wall deficient bacterial forms with a dark field microscope if you know what to look for. They are transparent little spherical blobs with motile granules inside.
(Note that a number of different bacteria will survive in a cell wall deficient form and you can't with a certainty identify the exact species visually. But, if your blood is full of some kind of bacteria in ANY form and you are sick that is a good clue.)
To shorten the story I found that frequencies around 370 khz to 390 khz applied through this diathermy device caused these spherical cell wall deficient forms to clump together in large globs and break down and disintegrate. Thankfully there is very little herxheimer agony to this method.
(To give credit, Hulda Clarke listed 3 frequencies for Lyme right in that area.)
I have built and experimented with several other approaches to the Rife machine, but this diathermy variant is what I used to get my Lyme under control and still use to keep it there.
I think the best results though are achieved by taking care of any and all of your health problems that are treatable, whether they are directly related to Lyme or not. Be it getting rid of worms, or a healthy diet and lifestyle, or some co-infection. You need as healthy a body as you can muster to fight this stuff successfully
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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If one was going to spend money and purchase a rife machine, which would you go for?
1)If money was no object, which one?
2)Also if you had a limited budget of lets say 2k which would you use?
and why do you like one over another?
Thanks,
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
If I had unlimited resources, I would probably put together a team of people including James, to build a custom device using what they have learned about Rife's original machine.
Other than that, I personally would buy one of Bruce Stenulson's custom devices. It probably is not for the beginner, but I have been doing this for a while now. I like it because it is expandable to run multiple tubes, and has many other unique features.
Next pick, the Resonant Light Perl, a TrueRife device, BCX, or GB-4000. No particular preference and I already have a GB-4000. All good devices, and I do not know if one is any better than the other.
Under $2,000, I would prefer an EMEM that can run high frequencies such as the Rife Labs EMX. I also have one already. They may not even be in business any more. The web site is no longer there.
I do not think anyone else makes a high frequency EMEM, so that leaves any of the low frequency ones which are pretty reasonable. They all work.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Thank you for your response Dan! I always appreciate your posts and your willingness to help others.
Another question if you don't mind. Do you have any opinion or do you know what the resale value is on these machines? Do people recover their money or at least a good portion of it?
Lets say I start with one and then up-grade if you will. Is there a market for these machines?
And, how long have you been using the GB-4000? And, if I was to buy one, is there anything else that I would need in order to get started, or is the GB-4000 all I would need to purchase?
Which of Light Perl, BCX or GB-400 is the easiest to use?
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I have only used the GB-4000 and the Rife Labs EMX, so I do not know which is easier, but the GB is about as easy as they come, once you use it a few times. I do not believe any of them are that difficult to use.
I bought my GB-4000 and Amp used for $1,700.00 and this is generally the range I have seen these for sale, when used. They do not come up very often used because they are snapped up pretty quick.
The used machines have generally been for sale at about 2/3rds of the new cost. You will not get much more than that, as I would buy a new one if I could not get a used one and save a few hundred.
The GB-4000 comes with everything you need when you buy it.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
With a $2,000 budget and not in a position to build something I would probably go for the GB-4000 with amp.
It is very flexible and can run the higher frequencies. With the amplifier it also can put a reasonable amount of power behind those frequencies.
Plus, if you decide you want an EMEM or other such device, the GB-4000 is an excellent programmable function generator for anything that can use an external frequency input.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I don't think anyone should have to spend more than that on any of what is out there personally.
In that situation I would probably buy other machines of a totally different type and use all of them. I would add a coil machine to the stable, for instance if I already had an EMEM or a GB-4000.
I also think there is the potential of having something very similar to what Rife used by using an EMEM in conjunction with a GB4000 that is running the chosen frequency in the higher RF range. (Be aware I haven't tested that idea yet!)
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Since I use my frequency device for many other conditions other than Lyme, a Coil Device is not real practical for my own use.
They work well, but are limited in run times due to heat, and frequency range. If you are only treating Lyme related problems they are fine.
As it comes, the GB is connected to the amplifier and you use it in contact mode. That is not the only way it can be used.
The GB frequency generator can be plugged into an EMEM device with an adapter, and run in audio mode to run your frequencies.
I do this with my EMX. That is what James is talking about. You could run most any machine that has an external frequency generator.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Re: your post after Dr. Daves post, Are you saying you would put your body in between the condenser pads to create an alternate electric field that your body would be in? That seems a little bit more in line with a coil machine as it could get in there better. Am I reading you correctly?
What the heck would the voltage on the pads need to be on something like this? It seems like it would have to be pretty darn high?
This is fascinating and trying to understand. thanks
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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So do you think using contact mode is better than using the wand that comes with it?
thx
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I did not get a wand with mine, but I am guessing that that is for treating a localized area.
Contact mode works very well, but I cannot tell if it works better than the Plasma Tube method. They both seem to have their place. I would like to do both at the same time, but my current set up does not allow that option.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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That is actually a very old and well tested technique that is still in use today for physical therapy. It is a diathermy machine such as might be found in a chiropractor's office today and likely would have been found in a medical doctor's office in the era before antibiotics. More specifically it is the condenser pad diathermy technique.
Yes, your body is placed between two well insulated rubber pads that have a metal plate or screen embedded in them. The electricity does not come in direct contact with the body, but because it is at a radio frequency a powerful electric field passes through it and creates a pleasant warmth and some beneficial physiological effects. It increases circulation in the treated area and has an immune stimulating effect.
Incidentally these condenser pads are large, perhaps 8" by 10", so they bathe a large body area with energy.
What I have done is modify one of these machines so that it can be turned rapidly on and off at a frequency determined by a function generator.
It is sort of a rife machine on steroids that does physical therapy at the same time.
Unfortunately these old machines that lend themselves to such modification are scarcer than hen's teeth now, as are most of the parts they are made out of. Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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With the GB-4000 what frequencies do you use for Lyme? Could you share that with me?
Thank you so much!
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I use Char Boehm's ten most important DNA frequencies for Lyme run in the Mhz range.
I also run 2016 Hz and 789,000 Hz. Sometimes I will run 612 Hz or my Lyme Harmonic program that runs 306, 612, 1224, and so on, up to the maximum of eight frequencies that all run at the same time.
It seems to be all I need to keep the disease under control. I am still trying to eliminate it, and that is mostly using the DNA frequencies. I have not managed to do that yet. The joints still respond to some of the frequencies, and that tells me that Lyme is still present. It is quite resilient, but I am ever so slowly gaining on it, or at least it appears that I am.
I do not use any others, but will test a few now and then.
Dan
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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