posted
I pulled out a tick on Saturday, embedded, but easy to remove. I flushed it down the toilet as I have so many times before. In Maine we have a lot of dog ticks, and are not immune to having ticks in our daily lives. However, yesterday I noticed that around the bite area it was red and now looks like a bullseye bruise. I went to the doctor, who didn't seem too convinced that it was EM, so I opted not to take the antibiotics. Should I have? Has anyone experienced a bullseye type bruise rather than a rash? I have had so many ticks before, but never had one leave a mark like this...any words of wisdom out there? Many thanks.
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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posted
PS... You need 400mg of doxycycline per day.. the dr will likely offer you 200mg per day. And personally, I would want 6-8 wks worth of it...not the TWO he will offer you.
Do your homework!! .. and WELCOME!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Wow, you are quick, I was thinking that I could wait it out, but you seem to think I need to hurry. So it can look like a bruise? I did take a picture, but it is still on my camera. The Dr. was actually looking in a book to compare, and mine doesn't look like the classic, but it is definitely a bullseye shape. Hmmm, I was also thinking that I could wait until I could take the test, perhaps I am being naive. Thank you so much.
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Can you post a picture of it here?
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Lymetoo is completely correct. Get on doxy immediately. Get as close to Lymetoo's recommendation as you can convince your doctor to. Take the doxy with food, not on an empty stomach. Take probiotics, and eat some decent yogurt every day. Hopefully you will be free and clear.
Keep exercising. For the time being, avoid alcohol, smoking, tylenol and steroids. Your doctor will not be of much help, except to give you the prescription. With Lyme, time is of the essence, and the test is unreliable.
The book "The Lyme Disease Solution" gives excellent suggestions for preventing Lyme disease in its earliest stages, and has a good list of the many, strange symptoms you should watch out for, 3 to 4 months down the road. Hope you can get on antibiotics right away.
Posts: 43 | From The South | Registered: Jan 2010
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
An EM or bullseye rash, no matter what it looks like or how atypical it appears, is enough on it's own to diagnose Lyme.
The sooner you get treatment, the less likely you are to have problems down the road. If it were me, I would start treatment ASAP.
And I would be taking a good quality probiotic supplement from a health food store 3 hours or more after the antibiotic, to prevent GI issues.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Looking for the cameral cord so I can post the picture. Much food for thought here, but I'm hearing all of you pretty clearly. Maybe because here in Maine, we haven't had a lot of Lyme, but folks here seem sort of un-phased by it.
The doctors attitude was take the antibiotics and it will go away, if you have it and then you have no issues. I am hearing it all differently here. Do people really have relapses after treatment? Is it possible that I don't and won't have any symptoms other than a bullseye bruise because I have caught it early? I usually feel so informed, but am doubting myself now!
Thank you all, I'll be back with a picture. And yes probiotics and yogurt....I was avoiding the antibiotics, just because I did not want to pollute my body with them unnecessarily. So glad I found you all!
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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posted
An Eastern Maine friend had a bullseye "bruise" on the forearm, fortunately she suspected a tick bite, she is a gardener. She received early treatment (for 3 weeks,not sure which antibiotic) and of course the bruise like ecchymotic rash went away. But . . . she had muscle pain in that arm for awhile with sleeplessness, tingling sensations headaches, neck soreness, and these persisted. Within a few weeks she started 60 days on doxycycline. She felt much better though not 100 %. She is now on zithro and flagyl, able to work her normal job but still treating her disease. I think starting with 6-8 weeks of doxy makes very good sense as Lymetoo has pointed out. You can get info on lyme treating MD/DO's in the Maine area on this site.
Beachinit.
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
We get lyme here in the city I live in all the time. The northern suburbs are full of it -- striking whole neighborhoods. And, yet, my brother saw THREE docs when he had his bullseye bruise and they all said, "That isn't Lyme".
That was lyme.
I would get the abx. And a lot of it. Take major probiotics when the 2 or so months of abx are completed. And, stay out of the sun if you are on doxy.
Posts: 564 | From Tick Hell | Registered: Oct 2008
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BackinStOlaf
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23725
posted
Be happy you found it early and act fast. DO NOT take the "wait and see" approach. Huge mistake.
Many of us were not so lucky.
-------------------- First Symptom 9/09 Multiple docs, negative Labcorp test LLMD: 1/10 Positive Igenex/CDC test Treatment 2/10 2/10-8/10 Amox, ceftin, zith, flagyl Currently: Bicillin, Minocycline, still dealing with severe breathing issues
Posts: 1121 | From New York, New York | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
I have no idea how to post a picture here, but I know it can be done.
Anyone with tips for springpeep?
You said, "Is it possible that I don't and won't have any symptoms other than a bullseye bruise because I have caught it early?"---- only if you get proper treatment ASAP!!! The symptoms will show up soon enough.
posted
Thank you Lymetutu. I realize that I am in denial. Finally did find a bruise bullseye photo on the internet, and feel like the doctors around here aren't too certain about much. I hope to get on the right dose, but yesterday was told that I would get a two week round of antibiotics, which seems to be different than what is recommended on this site. Time to push past the denial and get moving. Big sigh...
wish I could figure out the picture thing.
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
To post a picture, google for image hosting - there are sites like Image Shack, etc.
At the site, they will have a link to click to upload your photo to their server. It will upload after a bit, then they will give you a link to the photo to copy and paste here.
For the easiest option, look for the one that will post a photo to a forum. Image Shack's site will call it "Forum Code."
Select the link they provide in the box, copy it, then come here and either edit your fist post and paste it there, or paste it in a new post.
17hens
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 23747
posted
Spring Peep, I really hope you are able to post your picture.
A friend of mine has a bull'seye bruise but her doctor thinks it's a spider bite.
I'm anxious to show her your picture.
Hers itches too, so I don't know.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
By the way, it is imperative you get on antibiotics right away, and at 400mg/day of Doxy if at all possible. This is not medical opinion - I am not a medical professional. This is based on the treatment guidelines of ILADS.
The concern is to knock the Lyme down before it has more of a chance to invade your CNS, heart, and brain. Some studies have shown Lyme to be able to invade the CNS within 48 hours or less, so time is of the essence.
Once in the brain and the rest of the CNS, many antibiotics are not able to reach those areas, and stronger meds and doses become necessary, so treatment becomes far more difficult and takes much longer.
The odds are that you will not find a Doctor in your area that will provide the proper length of treatment for Lyme, or the proper amount.
On top of this, ticks generally carry more than one infection at a time. Doxy can, to a degree/in some cases, treat several types of possible infections. However, it will not treat viruses or Babesia (a Malaria-like parasitic organism).
Also, generally speaking, having Lyme and another tick borne infection at once tends to seriously complicate the disease process - the infections can potentiate, or worsen, each other.
Bottom line, I would get on whatever treatment you can find immediately, and get to a Lyme-literate physician as soon as possible so that you can be evaluated for other possible infections, and be put on a full treatment regimen.
You can find more information about the more up to date treatment guidelines in my link to ILADS in my signature.
I reckon you will want to do a lot of reading about this - the last link in my signature (Medical & Scientific Literature on Lyme ) is a very good place to start.
posted
It itched at first, but does not now, but it does not feel like a bruise at all. Not tender to the touch and has got a littler bigger...
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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posted
nenet: Thank you for the comprehensive reply, do you have Lymes?
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
You're welcome springpeep. Yes, I have Lyme, and most likely Bartonella.
I had random Lyme symptoms come and go starting when I was a young child, but I became gradually more and more sick, until I was disabled. I became unable to care for myself, leave the house except for doctor visits, and many times unable to leave the bed for more than a bathroom break for days and weeks at a time. This developed from about 2004 to 2008.
By the time my symptoms got to be too pronounced to ignore anymore, I was misdiagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis, Fibromyalgia, CFS, and possible MS, before I finally found a Lyme-literate MD and was diagnosed with Lyme. At my worst, I was having serious heart symptoms and seizures, as well as sometimes not being able to stand or walk, sometimes unable to swallow or speak, or hold an arm up to brush my teeth. I had well over 100 migrating symptoms.
I began real treatment in May 2008, and I got worse before I began to get better, which is a medical condition recognized as the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction, common in many but not all Lyme patients.
So, I had Lyme Disease for over 30 years before I was properly diagnosed and began treatment. You can go through my old posts by clicking on my profile and clicking the "View Recent Posts" link, if you want more info.
Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Spring - it looks like a bull's eye to me because of the white center circle but I am not an expert.
Mine didn't itch when I had one.
It sounds like you have gotten a lot of good advice to just get treated to be sure you are covered.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I know of another person also in coastal maine area who was bit by a tick 5 yrs ago and got short antibiotic treatment, did well for a while . . . then anxiety, then depression, then bipolar symptoms, then painful feet on soles, then trouble with memory, with simple subtraction etc. The point is once you have a tick bite you must forever be vigilant for symptoms that otherwise would not make sense. Your rash certainly qualifies for great concern.
Beachinit.
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
It's possible that you won't have any symptoms, because SOME strains that give the rash only give the rash and the bacteria doesn't make it past the skin.
However, for every story like that, there are people that get the rash, and it's the beginning of hell for them.
So there is NO WAY I would take that risk. If you get on antibiotics soon, you should be just fine.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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t9im
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25489
posted
Consider that some LLMD's have indicated over 40% don't have an em rash and its best to start doxy within 48 hours of the bite, not the rash.
As most here can attest once you have it its a long process to erridicate it.
Also co infections like Babs & Bart may not be hit by the doxy.
You at least want to take the doxy for 6 - 8 weeks (not the Infectious Disease Protocol of 3 weeks). The negative is you have to avoid the sun. Maybe they give you Zith instead (but it costs much more).
-------------------- Tim Posts: 1111 | From Glastonbury, CT | Registered: Apr 2010
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daisyrlb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15686
posted
I experienced exactly what you are talking about.
My LLD has treated thousands of patients and he told me that even though it is not the "traditional look" he has seen several other patients present in the same way. They tested positive for Lyme!!
If it were me, and I were just bit by that tick, I'd get treated ASAP and not put it off!
Posts: 2188 | From Oklahoma | Registered: May 2008
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
I tell ya, springpeep... the fact that this 'bruise' is the result of a tick bite and [to me] looks suspicuiously like an E.M. rash and especially since you said it "has got a littler bigger", I would Immediately get on doxycycline or amoxicillun at ILADS-recommended levels for ATLEAST ONE growth cycle of the Lyme borrelia (28 days), pref a little longer. If your doc won't write the full script, it's up to You to find a Lyme-wise doc who will. The further south you go in Maine, the better luck you'll have. York county & the coastal region up thru Portland is already at or approaching endemic levels for Lyme (50% or more of deer ticks infected). Fortunately, many co-infections, like babesia, haven't made it up there quite yet. As others have said, time is of the essence. Go hunt down someone who can get you on what you need. And stay out of the sun if you start on the "doxy"! It makes the skin burn much easier as it concentrates in the outer epidermal layers (which is good here). Good luck! -From coastal NH
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
A big thank you to each and everyone of you who have so graciously responded here. After many many phone calls and internet searches, I have found a LLMD in Southern Maine, going to see him on Tuesday. I have learned so much already. Thank you all!
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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daisyrlb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15686
posted
Great for the update springpeep!!!
Posts: 2188 | From Oklahoma | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Getting annoyed now! So, I have the appointment with the LLMD, but not until Tuesday, but it seems like I should be taking meds NOW. SO I called the first Dr. back that I saw two days ago, who will only prescribe 100mg of Doxy, for two weeks, she insists that this is enough and a long enough duration. I realize that I will be seeing the LLMD early next week, but should I wait until I see him or take what she gives me? I was thinking that I could double the dose, hmm?
For all of you who said the most doctors would not give a higher dose, you are so correct. What a debate I just had on the phone only to be told that: ~ since I removed the tick on Saturday, it is early enough to take a lower dose for a shorter period of time ~that since it was likely embedded for less 24hrs, that I probably didn't have anything to worry about. ~that if I would have taken meds up to 48 hrs after the removal than I would have only needed two doses of Doxy ~that she is following the protocols and all is well.
I have a question myself, with this bruise...if it goes away soon, would that indicate that it might not be EM? It is definitely still there, but what if it is gone by the time I get to the LLMD? I guess that is why I took a picture.
Okay, yes, I am frustrated!
Posts: 19 | From Western Maine | Registered: May 2010
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hshbmom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9478
posted
Springpeep, something to consider: the bruise-like appearance of your Lyme rash is common in those with dark skin.
If you have relatives with dark skin this may be supportive of a Lyme diagnosis.
You mentioned you had no symptoms other than the rash. That rash is the most characterisitc symptom of Lyme disease. If you have the rash, you have the disease. All Lyme symptoms may resolve; the rash may resolve without treatment, but the disease does not go away without adequate treatment.
Continue to educate yourself. You have to be your own advocate with Lyme disease. Unfortunately, what your physician told you is very common.
Posts: 1672 | From AL/WV/OH | Registered: Jun 2006
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17189
posted
Thought it Best to reply as below:
>should I wait until I see him or take what she gives me? I was thinking that I could double the dose, hmm?
Take what she gives you for now. The LLMD can adjust the dose/re-prescribe as he/she sees fit on Teus... after seeing you. ;-)
>For all of you who said the most doctors would not give a higher dose, you are so correct. What a debate I just had on the phone only to be told that: ~ since I removed the tick on Saturday, it is early enough to take a lower dose for a shorter period of time.
Foolishness. But typical for under-informed MDs.
~that since it was likely embedded for less 24hrs, that I probably didn't have anything to worry about.
AAAARRRGH!!! THIS is likely the most dangerous, most inaccurate "gargbage advice" being disseminated/ believed in today. *I* had 2 adult male deer ticks on me for no more than 20-21 hrs. I took a single dose of doxy on my own (I had NO rash) only to come down with horrid, CDC++ late-Lyme 4 mo.s later. Took me 8 months+ to get better.(& $10,000) SOOO many variables... How fast did it dig in? How engorged did it become? How many B.B. spirochetes were IN that tick? 100? 20,000?? (How many got into you? How good is YOUR immune system in "seeing" & fighting them?
>~that if I would have taken meds up to 48 hrs after the removal than I would have only needed two (2) doses of Doxy.
SILLYNESS. B.B. 'ketes can easily survive temporary exposure to most antbiotics at lower levels ("bacteriostatic" levels) w/o getting "lysed". >~that she is following the protocols and all is well.
She's even being conservative by IDSA standards, which suggest 2 to THREE weeks of doxy for "high-risk" exposure (likely exposure) to Lyme. Hope you got some abx for the weekend! Don't sweat it, springpeep. The LLMD will probably be "thrilled" to SEE that you're in the early stage of the disease (if it IS Lyme). YOU will in all likelyhood be CURED... unlike so many of the rest of us here. :-/~
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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