posted
Without any facts in hand, I'm going to jump ahead with the belief that the XMRV retrovirus could be the underlying reason why many people with chronic Lyme disease aren't getting better.
In the mean time, I am going to keep a list of herbs/supplements known to be antiretroviral if anybody is interested.
* Artemesinins/Wormwood * Lauricidan and monolaurin (possible strong reactions) * Olive leaf extract * B12/folate methylation type treatment (effective for HIV/AIDS and detox) * Colloidal Silver * LDN (prescription - good for AIDS) * Green tea (decaf) * L-Theanine * Sh*take/Oyster Mushrooms * Sutherlandia OPC (Sutherlandia Frutescens, Nerium Oleander)
-----------
Jonathan Campbell has a natural therapy for CFS/AIDS:
* Vitamin C (use calcium ascorbate - "buffered" vitamin C - if the stomach is sensitive) (powdered is cheapest) * Lysine amino acid (powdered is cheapest) * Proline amino acid (powdered is cheapest) * Glycine amino acid (powdered is cheapest) * Arginine amino acid * hi-potency multivitamin/multimineral * Calcium/magnesium supplementation * Decaf Green tea extract * Beta Carotene * N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) * Milk Thistle Extract * MSM * Selenium * Zinc/Copper * Co-Q10, especially if suffering from chronic fatigue * D-Ribose if suffering from chronic fatigue * Oregano Oil and Olive Leaf Extract for infection easy-to-digest protein (in other words, keep eating wholesome meals, and use soy or whey protein shakes if appetite is down) * At least 8 cups (2 quarts, 2 liters) of water or other non-caffeinated liquids per day
* Lauricidan/monolaurin (not on it) * Olive lead extract (not on it) * Colloidal Silver (already on it) * B12/folate and others for methylation (already on it)
And maybe add some LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone). It may reduce glutamate for neuro symptoms as well.
Artemesinins/Wormwood might be of good help in my opinion.
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Pinelady
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posted
Throw some Manuka Honey in there as a possible.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Added Manuka Honey for now. Can you find any sources claiming it's a good antiretroviral or good against HIV, etc?
Manuka honey did have strong effects on me in the past. Not sure what it was doing exactly or if I was just allergic.
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Pinelady
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-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Added Shi*take/Oyster mushroom, Sutherlandia OPC, and removed Manuka Honey.
While Manuka Honey might work, I couldn't find any evidence for it.
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TerryK
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posted
This is some of my rough research. I haven't spent much time on it recently but I'll include it in case it helps. Before relying on any of these, I planned to research them further.
Synergistic antiretroviral activities of the herb, Prunella vulgaris HIV inhibition of PV alone was tested in four dilutions (undiluted, 1:10, 1:100, and 1:1000). MT2 cell cytotoxicity was present at undiluted and 1:10 dilutions. The 1:100 and 1:1000 dilutions gave 80-90% and 0-25% protection respectively.
Propolis has been shown to contain compounds that prevent HIV-1 accessory protein
I have some others but I have to go now or I'll be late for an appointment.
I've been on all of the supplements that you are considering. Monolaurin seemed to be good for h. pylori but I didn't notice anything major and I was on it at theraputic doses for well over a year.
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Keebler
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posted
- I would find a LL ND (naturopathic doctor) or a doctor of similar scope who has worked with HIV/AIDS and is willing to learn more about XMRV / HGRV. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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I have M.E. and will probably test positive for HGRV (formerly "XMRV"); olive leaf extract is THE only thing that has helped me with that disease.
Luckily it's good for candida and bacteria, too, so there's no reason not to try it out! It takes high doses, 500mg-1,000mg a day, to be effective though. Posts: 161 | From Southern United States | Registered: Sep 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- A couple reminders about OLE: Probiotics must be taken at a time away from from Rx and from herbs such as OLE.
For those new to OLE (Olive Leaf Extract), it can cause a herx reaction so start with a low dose and slowly build up over time.
-------------- An Olive Leaf formula (that contains Terminalia chebula):
My ND (naturopathic doctor) recommended MYROLEA B. Most naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists know about the Seven Forest formulas. As this is a combination formula, there are ingredients included to help the body with "clearing heat" and metabolizing toxins.
Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.
The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.
Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.
SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003
Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .
. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.
Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.
In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.
. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,
. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."
It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."
- full article at link above.
===================
Detail from two of the most reputable sources of OLE:
Die-off effects -- Olive leaf use causes the death of microbes. The liver, kidneys, intestines and skin are therefore tested to their limits, to deal with, and remove them. This causes Herxheimers Reaction, which can have a variety of symptoms, but basically makes one feel ill or under the weather due to a treatment's effect upon the body.
Thus, "die-off," referred to in medicine as the "Herxheimer reaction," occurs when the olive leaf components kills large numbers of harmful germs rather quickly. Then, the patient's membranes absorb toxic products from these dead microorganisms. . . .
See details at link for:
* Safety Precautions and * Known Drug Interactions
SEAGATE Olive Leaf Extract - also see their menu for all their OLE products, including nasal spray, personal spray, etc.
Excerpt:
Side Effects: Olive leaves have been used safely for thousands of years. The only known side-effect is the possibility of a Herxheimer reaction, an allergic response caused by the rapid die-off of fungi that release toxins which may temporarily cause a brief allergic reaction, lasting for several days. -
[ 08-24-2010, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Very intricate detail & different charts at each of these links: ---------------------------------------
Dear Readers,
As we Declare in our last blog that we are going to highlight few plants that possess anti-HIV activity, so this is first part of that.
As the overall blog will be related to almost 50 plants, so we decide to give that in parts. In last part we will add references to this blog.
posted
I'm using Gelatin, and it seems to be a pretty good source of the aminos mentioned in Jonathan Campbell's therapy, except perhaps for a slight shortage of lysine. Eating it with a protein rich meal should cover that aspect as well.
Plus, unflavored gelatin is pretty cheap and easy to find.
Posts: 330 | From Colorado, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
I just scanned through Buhner's book, and it appears to me that Japanese Knotweed might be a good choice for the murine-leukemia viruses based on what he lists it is good for (symptoms). At least it seemed a good fit for my CFIDS/ME symptoms.
Posts: 277 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2010
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19863
posted
Do not forget about Rife.
I just posted some programs I am now using that address a long list of viral issues that were researched and used on some patients and I am having a big response..
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posted
Mistletoe
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Reminding me: hugs and kisses help immune function & mood. Oui ? C'est Magnifique. -
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steve1906
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posted
Hey Keebler, do you think OLE is good for us with Lyme?
You said start with a low dose---and slowly build up over time.
What is a low dose & and how high should we go.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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springshowers
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Also Oxymatrine
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
For what it's worth.....
According to the links down bellow the herbal combination of oleander and sutherlandia (Sutherlandia OPC) has reportedly been an effective treatment for HIV. Though, these "case studies" are anecdotal at best. If that herbal combination does indeed help HIV patients then maybe it could help people with XMRV.
A Dr. William Folk at the University of Missouri is currently doing a study with a sutherlandia extract on HIV patients to determine whether or not sutherlandia has any benefit for HIV patients.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- steve1906,
Yes, OLE is excellent for lyme patients. But, it likely not enough.
I cannot begin to really answer your full question as first, it would be practicing without a license but mostly, I just don't know. You should consult with a specialist in this area - one with all the skill and knowledge who can do a personal assessment of what YOU need.
Still, many of us don't have such a doctor so it's up to us to learn, learn, learn. When we are so tired, tired, tired. With everything I take, I've put in about 20 hours of study, minimum. Most people could do that in 4-5 hours but I'm very slow. I also like to take my time, giving it all some thought and then reading again, and again, for all I miss the first few times.
I was disappointed in OLE as I relied on it for many months and saw only moderate progress and plateaus. However, the advice I got then from a non-LL ND may have been for too low a dose. Now, after reading more in the years since, I see that my dose was very low, indeed.
There is just so much to consider. It's really best to find a knowledge thirsty LL ND or someone of similar training in the world of natural medicine. Read all you can, but that is really never quite enough. I've missed so much trying to do it on my own (with just a regular ND).
Start slowly and see how something feels for you. Always start with a very lose dose by itself and you can work into the various combinations and formulas later. Everyone is bit different, too.
I doubt there is one thing that will work the same for everyone.
I've moved on to Andrographis, myself. Went off of it for many months and I'm much worse for having done so (but, hey, food and a hair cut mattered more this summer). Andrographis is a fantastic help for me but I've heard of others for whom it doesn't work at all.
After a few months on andrographis, a mouthful of burning ulcers disappeared. Within a month of stopping it, they returned. OLE never touched that problem as andrographis did. Allicin helped to a degree but andrographis was a near miracle for mouth ulcers - as long as I stay on it. Can't wait for a bottle to arrive in a couple day and get back on it.
Andrographis is very sedating, however, and it can tether one to the restroom as it helps to reduce edema (but that excess water nearly rushes to get out). For me, while I hate that it makes me more sleepy, it does calm down seizure triggers better than anything else I have ever tried. And it makes nighttime sleep very easy, indeed.
While OLE has a broad range, and it can help with lyme, regarding the new work on XMRV/HGRV, we also need to read - and understand - how a retrovirus works and how that is different from a "regular" virus. And I'm just too tired to do that.
But, as for a good all-around supplement, OLE can be fantastic. When I was on abx for a couple months, having taken in before and all during - I totally avoided candida. Totally. In the past, without it, candida was horrible and took YEARS to resolve, even with Diflucan.
It is good to rotate now an then, or change the combination around. I hope you can find a good LL ND - or at least read everything they've (and holistic LLMDs) have written. Still, there is nothing like being seen in person by someone with full knowledge of all the possibilities and a rich experience of success with patients similar to us. I wish that for all of us someday soon. -
[ 08-24-2010, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Marnie
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posted
Fabulous information. As Keebler says, it is a mountain of stuff to learn. If Keebler takes time to put it together, it takes me more time to assimilate...so I think you are pretty quick and amazing.
I am starting some chinese herbs this week, the recipe is in chinese so at this point I can't share the information, I will do so in the future especially if they seem to help.
I do agree that many/most or a good portion of us have the xmrv virus or another subset that hinders progress.
Thank you all so much!
Posts: 172 | From ohio | Registered: Feb 2010
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CFS people sharing their experiences with treatments ... some say coconut oil is highly effective.
Posts: 277 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2010
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There is no need to direct people to anything related to Teitelbaum whom, after last October's XMRV findings, became Dr. Oz's bed buddy in downplaying our illness saying D-ribose is a good solution for an illness he describes publicly as "Chronic Fatigue." Oh and he also claims to have cured 90%+ of his CFS patients.
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