posted
Since seekhelp enjoys being facetious: I'm sure I would've been cured if I insisted on eating only fresh german bratbursts. I told my mother she didn't have to cook for me, and she thought I was just being nice!
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Tammy N.
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Maybe a good happy medium would be to go to Germany for the full treatment (w/ IVs, etc.), then to buy the PE1 so you can continue treatment once home. Thoughts?
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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lymie_in_md
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Seek -- I'm guessing you feel the IV treatment is more important and light treatment is unessential. You are so wrong!!! But, you could go to Mexico for the IV treatment for a lot less, I'm sure. Why don't you go there, if you are so confident it was the IV treatment that cured Six.
Seek -- I went on the wild side and did the treatment myself. You know what, I didn't have IV treatment anytime in my life, and also got just as well as Six. It cost me 1200 dollars and some deseret nosodes. And I still have the equipment, it was a one time cost, not like ABX or other consumables. I just don't like to spend money toward big pharma.
As far as Gigi being adamantly opposed -- I think she's wrong, just my opinion.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
My respect for gigi aside, no one person can monopolize evaluation on any therapy. To suggest that her becoming opposed to the therapy means that it's scam or somehow perilous is to ignore the positive feedback the rest of us have given on the therapy which is almost universally positive. If it weren't for the bionic, I don't think we would've had near the # of people trying the PE1 and reporting back on it. Scott, six, myself, and others were early adopters. The early adopters always pay more and make more mistakes, regardless of field. For being part of the first few groups to try this therapy, we all came out pretty much unscathed. I've spent a ton of money on several other therapies that haven't panned out, so overall the investment has been solid even if, like i said, it could've been better with 20/20 hindsight.
To do this therapy willy-nilly is dangerous, but so is randomly taking antivirals or antibiotics. Every treatment must be customized--the more precise usually the less side effects.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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springshowers
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posted
'nefferdun -- If money is an issue, buy a PE1, its only about 1200 dollars and much cheaper then the bionic and just as effective imo.'
Hi Bob THanks for the info. SO you do think the PEI is as effective.
Can I ask if you ever have tried rife?
Thanks
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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TerryK
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posted
six wrote:
Thanks, 17hens, and I do feel that way just as anyone does who is questioned on whether or not they are/were sick.
Six - are you thinking I was questioning whether you were sick?
Honestly, I didn't mean to start a dust up. I was just putting forth my impression based on what I had read. I wasn't wrong about what I had read but just didn't have the whole story which was graciously provided.
I'm just trying to be as analytical as possible in choosing treatments because I don't have a ton of money.
17hens- I'm not sure what you are referring to but in my opinion our very lives are at stake here so it is important to be able to respectfully ask questions, even if they are uncomfortable at times.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I have done the bionic treatment and feel it is very effective. While I am still working on getting rid of some heavy metals etc and thus not all symptoms are gone I am very much improved.
When I got back from Germany I did use it to totally wipe out my bartonella, too.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10175 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Tammy N.
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posted
Terry, may I suggest.... please don't take it personally... Just as Six could have, but didn't. No harm was intended. I think you asked good questions that Six clarified. It's all good for us to learn this way. No hard feelings. Just sharing so we can all understand better. I'm happy for the clarification.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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seekhelp
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posted
Wow, I had no idea. There's a meat market right down the road. Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by m0joey: Since seekhelp enjoys being facetious: I'm sure I would've been cured if I insisted on eating only fresh german bratbursts. I told my mother she didn't have to cook for me, and she thought I was just being nice!
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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seekhelp
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posted
I honestly do not have a solid opinion either way. I take all I read on Lymenet with a grain of salt. Why? Because I can't see anyone here, know if they are ill, and view their improvement to make assessments.
Does that mean everyone lies? NO. But, you have to be aware and consider all possibilities before shelling out more $$$$ for the next great thing.
What does astound me is the number of posters here with such absolute confidence in exactly the cause of their sickness at a precise moment in time. It seems so unlikely to me. If the greatest LLMDs in the world can't pinpoint it, how can patients?
I do believe the light therapy has merit. I am interested in trying it. For a $1,200 investment, it seems very reasonable to try the PE-1 providing I know what to do with it.
I don't believe antibiotics are the answer. I do think LLMDs overstate their success rates ridiculously to gain credibility knowing there's no verification. We're left with little to no choice though as there are no alternatives.
In regards to one poster having the answers, I say this because when GiGI left temporarily, there was an outcry to have her return by endless people here. Her knowledge must be top-notch here to provoke that level of response. I have to believe many are helped greatly. I always follow the AI thread to see if people are really benefiting. Also, she has a connection to the greatest doctor on the planet when it comes to natural medicine.
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: Seek -- I'm guessing you feel the IV treatment is more important and light treatment is unessential. You are so wrong!!! But, you could go to Mexico for the IV treatment for a lot less, I'm sure. Why don't you go there, if you are so confident it was the IV treatment that cured Six.
Seek -- I went on the wild side and did the treatment myself. You know what, I didn't have IV treatment anytime in my life, and also got just as well as Six. It cost me 1200 dollars and some deseret nosodes. And I still have the equipment, it was a one time cost, not like ABX or other consumables. I just don't like to spend money toward big pharma.
As far as Gigi being adamantly opposed -- I think she's wrong, just my opinion.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by Tammy N.: Maybe a good happy medium would be to go to Germany for the full treatment (w/ IVs, etc.), then to buy the PE1 so you can continue treatment once home. Thoughts?
I think this is a good idea. I also think mOjoey is right that those who go first can expect to spend more. I didn't care. I was already spending a fortune. I can't honestly say what I'd do at this point as far as PE1 or Bionic. I believe conversation about the PE1 had started before I left but I bought the Bionic because I didn't want to have to figure it out.
The detox IV's helped me DETOX. They were NOT what cured me!!
TerryK, I knew you were asking with good intentions, so I answered. But, I have had MANY accuse me of the same thing with bad intentions, so I do feel somewhat like I'm justifying myself because of the history, not you. I just want people to have the real information on what really happened with all of us who went so they can make the decision on whether it's the treatment for them.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by 17hens: Thank you, Six, for being so willing to talk about your experience with us.
Sometimes it sounds as if you must defend yourself/experience. I'm sorry if you do feel that way. Shame on any of us that makes you feel that way.
Therapies are not simply being discussed, but recommended. Six states at one point that she recommends something, and writes in a way that might lead some to consider her an expert. Given that, I think at the very least a critical look at all aspects of what is being reccomended is warranted.
Where is the balance here? New people of varying levels of sophistication will visit this site and get what...a reccomendation? A recommendation is somethong a doctor gives. The wrong impression is being given.
I questioned Rife in another thread and was attacked by one of its advocates who said "you can't even spell it right" (I had spelled it Riffe). In that thread I expressed doubt to a mother considering the treatment for a child.
This thread was started by someone who asked "who has relapsed on Bionic?"
Where is that discussion? Where is the discussion on doubt related to a technology which should be questioned? We are talking about people's lives but if I step out of line on Rife or Bionic I am attacked.
My internet searches lead me to believe that both Rife and Bionic are snake oil. Maybe not though. Maybe cures are happening. The star struck manner that this community exhibits with respect to certain individuals and technologies is disturbing and can only provide ammunition to those who would like to put lyme disease treatment into tbe hands of GPs and insurance companies.
When the attack starts, please dont criticize my spelling too much, I typed this on my Iphone.
Posts: 152 | From West Palm Bech, FL | Registered: May 2008
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Tammy N.
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Anthropisces - why would you expect attacks? Unless that is what you were going for??
I think it is best when we have meaningful discussion.... and healthy skepticism is part of it. I think it is also best to try not to be intentionally inflammatory.
If you have any experience with the original question, I'd love to hear what you have to say.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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sixgoofykids
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I think you're going too much into semantics. The only place I use the word "recommend" is when I said I often "recommend" the PE1. I think everyone else but you has taken that statement in context.
I merely "recommend" one machine over another. I don't say anything about recommending one *treatment* over another as a *doctor* would.
As far as why someone who has relapsed on the Bionic hasn't answered this thread is because NO ONE HAS! Those of us who did get better using photons stayed better.
And, finally, as for the snake oil comments. Sorry you think those of us who say it helped are liars. Not my problem. And if you continue to antagonize in this thread, I will remove posts.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Tammy N.
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Six - if I may suggest..... perhaps don't reply to anthropisces above. We all know you have nothing but the best intentions and are speaking about what has been true for you. We know you are not giving medical advice. You are just saying what you would do (or have done) in a given situation.
There is a difference between playing devil's advocate, and provoking an inflammatory response. You can tell when someone is coming from a kind, helpful place, and when they are not. Your time is way too precious to go on the defensive from an angry post.
Anthropisces - It's not what you are saying, it's how you are saying it. You are free to do and say as you feel. I just think it would be more helpful to be a little softer. I think that is how you will get the answers you are seeking, rather than the defensive responses that are likely. Please don't take me wrong. My intention is to only have comfortable, helpful discussion.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
If anything, don't you think people that relapsed would be more likely to post since sick people stay on forums and healthy people often leave? It's very telling when you have multiple people respond on a relatively obscure therapy and all of them have positive things to say, even when some like myself didn't gain nearly as much on it as others.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
So would I Terry. I want to see if this thread produces any results related to the original question, because althou grandly skeptical, I am hopeful, like so many, that something is available which may change my life for the better.
The advocates of this technology have a thread with about 3000 posts. Some felt it necessary to carry that advocacy over to this thread.
The question originally posed is of great interest to me and perhaps many others. But it is gone, turned into a place for the advocates to comment.
I would lime to see the moderators delete any posts from this thread, including mine, that dont speak to the original question. Id like to see the moderators maintain it and keep it that way, for balance. We need that balance so people can sort through it all and make a decision.
This is an important question that was originally asked. It is vital for me, because even though I think its snake oil I might change my mind. Trust me, I want a cure and am nearly desperate for one. But advocacy and recommendation are only valuable when balanced with alternate views. I dont have an alternate view, with Bionic, or Rife because, as you stated i have no experience.
I need to hear from people who bionic did not work for just as I need to hear from those whose LLMD treatment with abx failed. It allows me to make decisios.
I do not wish to alienate any of you. It is likely that everyone in this thread has helped me in some way. But I am a skeptic. I once again ask the moderators to delete all posts in this threaf that are not from individuals who relapsed on Bionic 880.
Posts: 152 | From West Palm Bech, FL | Registered: May 2008
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nefferdun
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posted
Actually allowing all views to emerge helps clarify the validity of our beliefs. It makes people real and their intentions become more clear. For all we know there could be people planted on these sites to promote the healing properties of herbal protocols and devices. You just never know.
And there can be honest people with good intentions that are just living in delusions wanting to be well when they aren't. I have been there and relapsed twice. Of course we are suspicious. We are afraid to believe- even ourselves and our own perceptions can be skewed.
So we have to question. I lean toward trying the machine when the abx fails completely. That won't be much longer.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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tick battler
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posted
anthro - you claim to be providing "balance" with your own opinions which are not based on personal experience or thorough research. The best part about Lymenet is that we can hear personal experiences of others. It is pretty clear that we are not doctors.
Just to clarify, when you typed "riffe" in the other thread, it was not a typo as you imply above since you had spelled it that way several times. You even admitted you were "bashing riffe" merely because the thread was too popular and it smelled like snake oil to you. I don't see how this provides balance to the thread.
I am glad to see, however, that you have become curious enough about it to look into it further and perhaps do some testing on it. We do want to have your opinion once you have done this testing. That would be helpful.
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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lymie_in_md
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posted
I easily can answer the question on the topic, I'm well working at 100% when I don't have the flu like today. And I'm enjoying life, though I had some set backs here and there many of which were associated to thyroid.
Either the bionic or the PE1 will take you some distance but there are other things you have to do as well. If you don't, you might not get well. So how you go about it is very important. For instance, if you don't have the IV you might not want to do 5 minutes to start on each chakra. I think it is far better to start either 30 seconds and 1 minute.
My reasoning: detoxification, you don't want to send things plunging out of the body too fast.
What does light therapy do, detoxification and cellular health. If there is junk in the cell or virus or the cell isn't that healthy, cells don't have the energy to recycle call apaptosis. (google harry whelan or Janis eells --its a start on nasa's use of infrared healing) The cell doesn't have the ability to defend itself. It has been uncovered that light energizes cells mostly in the form of sunlight. So what is the difference between sunlight and saunas and a gool 'ol pe1. Simple the PE1 or Bionic chose specific light frequencies. I think the PE1 is supperior in this case the builders of the bionic are now choosing more frequencies in there next unit.
Validation: google light therapy and autism or light therapy and rosacea. There are many scientific studies using LEDs which are non-coherent lasers. If you want to dig deeper, google professor fritz popp. An amazing individual and an individual who can give you the science for it.
I've never used rife, I've used zappers -- not quite the same though although it is frequency generator). It is my opinion that a combination of rife and light therapy would work together. Both are electromagnetic frequencies, one is for pathogen destruction the other is a cellular revitalizer. Sounds like a good combination to me.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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tick battler
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posted
I just heard from an acquaintance with lyme who started getting UV light treatments for lyme from this new "sophisticated" machine in her doctor's office. Does this in any way relate to the PE-1 or Bionic? How would this differ?
I would like to know b/c I'm taking my 6 year old son to this doctor in November (been on a wait list for 8 months!)
Thanks,
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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sixgoofykids
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posted
** moderator's note - some off-topic comments were removed, (over half of which were mine). To remind everyone of the topic, the original poster was asking if anyone has reached remission OR if there are any relapses from treatment with the Bionic 880. Thanks. **
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
Tick battler, the Bionic and PE1 are both infrared light, not UV, so the treatment would be different.
Our bodies make vitamin D and who knows what else from sun exposure, specifically to UV light. But I don't know what that treatment would be.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
where can you get this PE 1?
Posts: 73 | From ca, usa | Registered: May 2009
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lymie_in_md
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posted
However UV is a great combination treatment with the bionic. UV like rife and abx are pathogen killers. UV kill pathogens, just look at any water treatment or air purifiers they all are using UV light. The PE1 is a cell rejuvenator.
For those who doubt light therapy, why not doubt UV light. How can UV light kill bacteria?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: He seriously said that? Even with his powerful, aggressive protocols. OMG. If that's his perception, time to pack up my bags. How can he treat patients with a conscience if that's the outcome knowing how many thousands it costs? Seems unfair. This is coming from the best LLMD in the WORLD. Scary.
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: GiGi lately has said it's not all it's cracked up to be. She used to be a big proponent of the Bionic 880. I think she now recommends AI therapy instead.
Yeah, well.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymie_in_md
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You know lymetoo those droopy drawers never get old.
Six -- great explanation by Dr. H. why it is so important to combine CAM with ABX. However, Dr. W. in Germany warns ardently to not use ABX while doing light therapy. You need to be off ABX for at least 3 weeks before starting light therapy.
So I'll repeat : Do not combine Light Therapy with ABX!!!!!! You won't be successful. And I'm sure there are herbs you need to limit.
I was fortunate, I couldn't handle ABX so I had to go a different road.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
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Right, no killing herbs with the light either. He likes you to take the bare minimum.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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I suppose you should limit rifing for awhile to. Most of Dr. W. patients are probably severely toxic. Using the light will help detoxify. Once all the toxins had been removed, you could probably rife and use light therapy simultaneously.
I could probably use the light all day without a reaction. However, when I first started I could much different story.
So the idea killing causes toxins, the light is also removing toxins. You can over-run the liver and kidneys and skin. So you have to start slow so you can get a certain rhythm.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Wait a second. I thought that Dr. W was supposed to be recreating his technique as he somewhat recently admitted that many lyme patients were not getting better on his treatment?
Was he going to do a re-group/re-think or has he simply given up on that and gone back to his same protocol? thanks, jeremy
Posts: 268 | From new york city | Registered: May 2008
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sixgoofykids
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Sorry, Jeremy, I've never heard of what you just mentioned. Where did you hear that?
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Is this the machine we're talking about?
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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lymie_in_md
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posted
jlp38-- yep, that's the machine I used, but before that I did use the lightworks machine for several months. Not as powerful, but was probably a good start to light therapy for me. It insured I didn't go to fast, which I probably would have. You should just start slow.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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I don't know if Dr. W is revising his technique. I know he ia getting a new photon maachine designed--one that will supposedly treat cancer.
I think you would have to call his office in Germany and ask to talk to Sandra or someone who speaks English well as Dr. W has trouble with some English.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10175 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Bob -- how did you determine how you wanted to treat? I just looked thru the manual they have on line, but it seems overwhelming to try to figure it all out without a doctor to guide you.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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sixgoofykids
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People using the PE1 took what we learned from Dr. W and posted here and in blogs and developed their protocol from that. Even the Bionic 880 does not have instructions on how to treat Lyme. The instructions are mostly limited to how to operate the light.
Dr. W did give us a few protocols for various things.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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There is nothing scientific in what I've used. A combination of intuition and using a biotensor where a biotensor is nothing more than an extention of the subconscious.
I have no proof the biotensor works or not, it seems to work for me. It is either a matter of faith or tapping into the area of the body that can correct wounds.
Intuition is a very powerful tool, when we learn to trust the inner voice with our health we grow at the same time. The problem is how separate the conscious mind from the inner voice. When you activate you intuition and faith in yourself things grow, the biggest and most important is self. If you manage your own health and your self esteem grows with your efforts what could be better.
My point in getting well, we live with ourselves all the time we see a doctor once every few months for about as much as an hour or less. We have to take self responsibility for health.
So I test many things such as frequencies from the led, supplements i take, or food I eat with the biotensor. Or I just use intuition either way it is better then just guessing. I feel I'm in better charge of my life, what is better then that?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Tammy N.
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Hello friends,
The more I research, the more clear I think I'm becoming. (God I hope so!)
Here's my current thought......
I started reading the Allergy-Immun Germany thread here on LN (I still have MANY more hours to read as I am following it from the beginning.) But I am feeling very drawn to it.
I'm starting to think it would be a better idea to do the AI treatment first (to clear metals, allergies, blockages (things inherited and acquired), etc., etc.,) Then go on to the Bionic. It just seems to make sense to me that if the Bionic stirs things up, and our system still has the blockages that it always has, it may not be able to clear things out for lasting results. Also, I know viruses are a part of my picture, and from what I read, Bionic doesn't really help with that. So I'm trying to really think this all through.
Also, AI seems reasonably priced. 390 Euro total (which is about $520), regardless of how many rounds of drops that they send!!! Considering all I have spent, this seems like a bargain, especially for what it may actually accomplish.
If you have insights/thoughts you could share, please.....
Thanks so much. Have a beautiful day, Tammy
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. The more non-antibiotic therapies I try, the better I think.
Not sure what a biotensor is. I'll have to look that up. I use muscle testing a lot so maybe that would help me figure it out.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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sixgoofykids
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Sorry, I don't know much about AI. I never used it.
Jlp, I didn't have a biotensor, I used muscle testing and intuition. I found I generally knew what I needed and what I did not. Muscle testing never contradicted what I knew already, even ART supported what I already knew.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymie_in_md
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posted
The following site is the home of the PE1 with many great article to review, take time to read the research papers.
posted
I would say I am in remission with no relapse. I have not been on ABX since May 15th and it is now September 3rd. Praise God! I thank all that have come before me with this... If there is anyone I can help, it is the least I can do. I decided while in Germany... my life would be spent paying it forward... To have your life back... there is no greater gift. Thank you all...
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I was last in touch with the Bionic 880 people back in March or April. I have been meaning to e-mail them and will do so today.
They are telling me they expect FDA approval in both USA and Canada....first Canada and then in USA. According to them, this should have happened already.
I will send an e-mail and let you know what they say. I am not holding my breath.
Posts: 478 | From Third Coast | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Got to love the FDA... Do you think they were going to give up the thousands I was paying out of pocket for drugs... It is such a heartbreak!
Here is for hoping Canada has been approved and the US is not far behind. The thing of it is... I would want the best and Dr. W to me is the best in the field as he came up with the treatment plan that has 10 years behind it. It is going to take time to get Canada up to speed I would think and the US. Why not, just go to Germany. If you go with someone, it is really doable.
Just a thought... for me it has saved me already 11,500 since May 15th (so I have paid for my trip). Best
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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sixgoofykids
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My thoughts on going to Germany ....
You need about three weeks of treatment over there to hit it hard in the beginning. Europeans are travelers and have their country set up to vacation somewhere for weeks at a time. I was paying 40 some euro per day for a large apt over there with a full kitchen and shared the apt with another patient.
How much is a similar setup over here? There are some hotels that do that, but I think they're about quadruple the price and not large enough to comfortably share and have your own "space" for those times when you're feeling bad and want to be alone.
Plus, the medical care over there was less expensive.
People think it's exotic to go to a foreign country for treatment, and it kinda is, but I think overall it's LESS expensive than going somewhere in the US for three weeks.
That, plus the fact that the doctor who invented the treatment is over there, was what justified the expense to me. I haven't been to the LLMD since Aug 2008 .... so I've saved $80,000 + in what I would have spent on lyme treatment since I've been back.
I'm not trying to talk anyone into it. I'm just putting my experience out there.
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