Topic: A product suggestion for protecting your dog/family
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Hi I am new here. I have been a vet tech for 10 years and I wanted to give what small amount of advice I have regarding protecting your dogs and potentially your family from ticks.
This may have been brought up before but I am not sure.
The best flea and tick prevention that you can get for your DOG is K9 Advantix. It is topical drops that you apply once a month to the back of the dog in several spots.
With K9 Advantix, ticks are repelled and killed before they can bite, reducing the potential risk of a tick-transmitted disease.
This is not meant to try to sell something but it really works. It is toxic to cats, and cant be used on them. Once the medicine is dry on the dog it is sae for he cat.
The best product for cats is Frontline plus, but the tick has to bite the cat to be killed.
here is the link if you want to check it out. I have been using it for years with no problems.
If you have any Q's regarding dogs and Lyme I am happy to offer some help. There are a ton of dogs that suffer from Lyme DZ too (among other TBD).
They usually present with limping or are lame in some way with no known trauma. They also can have high Fevers. They can get Lyme Nephritis too. You all may know this already.
Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
The one important thing to note with Frontline Plus on cats, is that while this product does kill ticks (and eggs) the tick needs to be imbedded (bitten) on the cat for 2 FULL DAYS before it will die.
I have tried many attempts at removing an embedded tick from my Frontline Plused cat, and if the tick has been on my cat for less than 2 days, when I remove the tick, IT IS STILL ALIVE.
Which of course gives me the willies. You need to be ready with something to deposit the tick into if you do remove an embedded tick from a Frontlined animal, if it has been on the animal for less than 2 days. Otherwise, if it has been on the cat for 2 or more days, it will come off the animal dead as a doornail.
I've tried this folks, and it is true. So, be prepared. If you remove the tick, put it in a bottle or jar with lid, in rubbing alcohol, to be safe. Do not flush down toilet, they crawl back up.
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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Thanks for the info...and I do have a question for you.
A year ago I found a tick on my Boston Terrier puppy. It left a perfect bulls-eye rash! I wasn't yet diagnosed with Lyme myself then, but growing up on Long Island I knew a little bit about it. I'm now living in Florida, where they're saying there is no Lyme!
I called the vet and they said that Lyme was rare here and to "wait to see if he has symptoms." I wasn't going to do that, so I had them do a blood test to look for Lyme. The test was negative.
My questions are, does a bulls-eye rash mean the same thing for dogs as it does for humans? And how accurate are the Lyme blood tests for dogs?
My husband and I were talking about this again just this morning, so it's interesting to find this topic!
Thanks, Gena
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Thanks for the info. A relative uses frontline on her dog, which then refuses to eat for a day or two. This made me think it was not very good for the dog either, even if it kills ticks. So, good to know there is an alternative.
The website says it contains permithrin. My can of repel with permithrin says only use on clothing and gear, not on skin. So why is it ok to use on dog skin but not people skin. Another maker of a permithrin spray says it does not harm people to put on skin but it just doesn't last, which is why it goes on clothing, shoes instead.
So, two different versions of whether permithrin is harmful on skin of people. I don't know what that other ingredient is, or how it works with permithrin.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Well I have to admit that there is not great tick preventative for cats plain and simple.
Advantage does not work for ticks at all.
Revolution isn't the best for ticks either, but htis is what I use because it does a bunch of other stuff, like heartworm etc. My cats stay inside.
Cats have very different and sometimes sensitive systems compared to dogs. My best reccomendation would be to keep them inside if you can.
Unfortunately Lyme DZ is as controversial in Veterinary medicine as in human medicine (maybe not as bad). Veterinarians are also behind in my opinion in the treatment/ diagnosis of Lyme.
This whole controversy in animals and humans boggles my mind.
I have to say in my 10 years of experience as an Emergency Critical care technician, the only time a dog is treated for Lyme is when they are symptomatic.
Symptoms usually start with Lethargy, not eating, limping, painful swollen joints, and a significant fever (not always).
We have what we call snap/combo tests that take 10 minutes to get results for Heartworm,Lyme, and Ehrlichia. It takes a very small amount of blood to run. Basically the test is looking for antibodies. Cost varies between hospitals but maybe around $70.
There are a lot of people that vaccinate their dogs for Lyme. This is super contoversial too. This would make a test come back positive.
If it comes back positive, the doctor will give the dog Doxy by mouth twice a day for 30 days, and maybe some NSAIDS appropritae for dogs. IF SYMPTOMATIC!
The doctor may also run a tick panel and C6 panel. If the dog is very sick with a high ever, it should be admitted to the hospital for IV meds.
unfortunately the patient is not able to comunicate how bad it feels, and now that I have Lyme I feel so bad for these dogs. They do seem to bounce back sooner than a person from what I can tell.
If an owner were to call me on the phone and tell me that they pulled a tick off and had a huge bulls eye rash, I would say that the possibility exists that the dog has been exposed to Lyme.
I would tell the owner to make an appointment ASAP, and reccomend the K9 Advantix. I can tell you that most docs would NOT RX any Doxy with no symptoms and a negative test.
I you came into the office and explained thta you have Lyme and your level of concern a good caring doctor might RX something.
I can tell you that I strongly agree with using k9 Advantix, The rep had showed me a video of a tick on a treated animal.
it showed how the tick got "hot feet" and couldn't even stand still for a second, and then it died. I have been using it for years.
It is proven to be very safe for the pet. Keep in mind that 10 years from now they may discover that is causes cancer or something but for now that is what I use.
I have a 5 year ols and 19 month old. It is safe. I mean I wouldn't rub it on myself and I don't let the kids touch the dogs until the product is dry.
Sometimes the product can cause a local skin reaction, and you just wash the pet. I have seen this once.
So I hope I answered some questions, keep in mind I am a technician not a doctor!!
Here is a site to check out soemtimes you have to join the newsletter first but it is a good site. Good Luck- Melissa
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
One thing I have to add is that I have NEVER tested or heard of a cat getting Lyme. I am going to ask a Doc at work to find out. I will let you know.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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You mentioned Erlichia, but do you know if dogs can get Babesia and Bartonella?
Harley (my dog) had a fever a while back along with an ear and eye infecion and he was on an IV for a day, but otherwise always eats and has a lot of energy.
I also feel really bad for these dogs who can't tell us what hurts!
That's really cool about how k9 Advantix works!
Thanks again!
Gena
-------------------- "Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead Posts: 290 | From New York | Registered: May 2007
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Everyone here has been so kind to me so I am happy to offer anything I can in return.
I know that they can get Rocky mountain spotted fever for sure. I am almost certain they can get the rest too. I will look into it for all of you. I am not sure the next time I am going to work so give me a bit of time.
Cats can get Bartonella. Now that I have Lyme my intrest in the matter is strong. These poor critters can't tell us how bad they feel and it makes my heart ache for them.
I don't see why A cat can't get Lyme. It doesn't make sense why they couldn't. They get a lot of Fevers of unknown origins etc... I will have to investigate.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
I was also told that fleas carry Bartonella and I think babesia too. I could be wrong about the babesia.. Can fleas carry Lyme? I think I read that somewhere. I don't see why not.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Our dog died suddenly for no reason. We had been having a terrible time keeping the tick population controlled. Despite keeping Advantix on him, he would come in at night COVERED with ticks, mostly Brown Dog ticks.
He didn't like staying in the house during the day and would get very nervous if I tried.
He was a beautiful and active Golden Retriever. We don't know what killed him, but it was heartbreaking. And my husband is a vet.
He had been tested for Lyme and it was always negative.
This was before I figured out I had Lyme. I was the one who picked all those horrible ticks off of him, so even though I was bitten many years before this, I think I caught something from doing this.
We use Revolution on most of our cats, but a couple of them get sick with it so we use Frontline on them. We have use it to for fleas, which we hardly ever see any more.
One of our cats died in December of cytozoanosis from an American Dog Tick.
We have cats with some very strange health problems. It's generally accepted that they don't get Lyme. But who knows? They do carry Bartonella, but don't usually get sick from it, supposedly.
My husband tests for Lyme, but he will treat if the dog is symptomatic--limping, has sore joints, muscle weakness or things that can't be expained by anything els.
Posts: 353 | From Florida boonies | Registered: Nov 2005
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Nebula I am so sorry for your loss. That is heart breaking. I you have trouble with thr advantix you can apply it every 3 weeks during heavy tick saeson. I am sure your hubby knows more about anything ai have to say.
How old was your dog? Unfortunately goldens are very prone to cancer. poor babies. He could have had a tumor that ruptured causing blood loss.
I am sure your hubby knows about the food recall as well.
I have seen cats that are in the hospital for hemobartonella with a fever and anemia. Can you ask him why cats don't get Lyme? I will be out of work for a while. So sorry for the loss.
Google the rainbow bridge poem. It helps me deal with animal death.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Both Dogs and Cats can and do get Lyme disease.
They are also at risk for several other Tickborne diseases such as Bartonella, Babesiosis, Ehrlichiosis and others.
With LD, they may or may not have an EM rash. They may or may not exhibit outward symptoms at first. The testing is notoriously inaccurate... And you may or may not remember having ever seen a tick on them.
But, you do usually know your animal enough to suspect when something is not quite right...so, please follow your heart, and have your animals treated if you ever suspect exposure to tickborne diseases.
Below is a link to many articles re: Canine and Feline LD. Hope some of it is helpful to you who are questioning.
merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Wow some good info for sure. I am really intrested in learning about cats contracting Lyme.
Are you a technician? I am curious if a lyme snap test we use for dogs would be positive if a cat was positive. Interestoing topic.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
Wow some good info for sure. I am really intrested in learning about cats contracting Lyme.
Are you a technician? I am curious if a lyme snap test we use for dogs would be positive if a cat was positive. Interestoing topic.
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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