posted
Our currently leaders are driving us into bankrupcy. They have failed to manage fannie, freddy, social security and virtually every government program is a web of inefficiency and waste.
Regardless of the pro/cons of socialized medicine in other countries, our current leaders are incabable of making a system that will be better than our current system.
Until, we clean house, eliminate all of the self-serving elite minded shmucks that are currently in DC, we are better off dealing with the health care system the way it is.
Here is an idea...we could drastically reduce health care costs in the US by capping medical malpratice lawsuits. If you win your case you can have $250,000 or an amount equal to your life insurance coverage at the time of the malpractice, whichever is greater. If you valued your life at $500,000 and purchased that much in coverage why should you get any more in a lawsuit?!?!? Malpractice insurance is a real problem here and costs the doctors a fortune. That would be an easy way to start and wouldn't involve the federal government.
My 2 cents.
Linda
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dontlikeliver
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Is education a 'right'? It seems to be more than a right. Parents are prosecuted for NOT educating their kids. But, it's Ok for poor families without access or funds for healthcare to let their kids 'die off' instead as long as they get/got their right to education? (perhaps slightly exaggerated case, but I don't see the logic personally in valuing the 'right' to education before life itself/health).
Without your health, what does education mean?
This could become a circular discussion that has no end, unfortunately. No, running water, electricity, etc is not a right either. Perhaps we should just go back to living in caves, foraging and letting the fittest survive, which would probably mean that most of us "Lymies" would die out pretty quickly.
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dontlikeliver
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As I said, I don't want this discussion to escalate beyond a certain point, which it has a tendency to do on Lymenet and it may get taken out of context (which is already is starting to) and get pulled; taking members with it. It would be nice to remain just as a discussion, bringing in all different people's different experiences around the world, using different systems.
I seem more or less alone on this thread, having the 'right' to and using both systems at the moment, which currently give me the best of both worlds IMO. My LLMD in the US and treatment in the UK on the 'socialized' system. My Malarone was $10/box. Would I prefer to pay the US price for it? Not really. It was a case of educating my GP; I was lucky he's 'seen the light'. But, if he was an American GP he would not necessarily be more likely to see the ILADS light.
There's good and bad to everything and everyone.
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
dontlikeliver. Who is your GP over seas? PM me?
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Dontlikeliver,
I love choices. But clearly you are having to come to America for your lyme treatment. Where will you go if America socializes their medicine?
Heiwalove, America is one of the most charitable countries on this earth. Absolutely, everyone is entitled to the basic needs of life and everyone who can get those needs on their own power is obligated to do so and God directed to never forget the poor, the widows and the orphans.
But when that becomes a Government Mandated practice, don't be shocked when the disabled are shuffled to the bottom of the heap. Afterall, you are a drain on society and Society must survive at the cost of some unlucky individuals. That is socialism! Hardly charitable.
LindainRhodeIsland,
I agree with you 100%. People want to say the pharmacutical companies and the insurance companies are greedy but they are in bed with the politians. Yes folks, the very same people you want to hand all our money and our healthcare choices over to.
Democrats are supposed to be for the little guy but they were the first to line up right alongside our "so called republican" president to hand a fortune over to corporations who had mismanaged and even swindled their way into the financial fiasco we are now in. Those corporations had plenty of help from our polititians both democratic and republican who paved the legislative way for them and pressured them into providing loans for people who could never pay it back. Capitalism has not been at work for a long time now, but greed has been operating without anyone to oversee and prevent it.
Right now, after so many Obama appointees have been found remiss in paying their own taxes, I would like to see an audit of every single polititian. Who else isn't paying their fair share?
You want equity and justice from our government?
GOOD LUCK!
Susan
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Abxnomore
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METALLlC BLUE I like your way of thinking. No system is perfect but the one we have is clearly
a diaster. If we put our minds to it, America could provide healthcare for everyone and perfect
the problems that other countries may have.
Healthcare should be an individual RIGHT and it
is disgraceful that we are the only industrialized nation that does not take care of our sick. When
I go to Europe I can buy (not now with the demise of the dollar) American made drugs for pennies and in the U.S. the very same drugs cost a fortune.
Now that our country is failing apart, many are reaccessing the urgent need for health care reform. How much longer can we burden industry with this cost and
expect them to be competitive when in every other country industry does not have this burden??
Is there any wonder we can't compete. A country that provides health care for some and not ALL
is not AMERICA! Also we must look at this not only from a Lyme perspective as we have a unique set of
issues but why should some one in their older years lose every thing they have worked for their entire life when they become old and ill before
the government will help them? You have to be broke before you can get medicaid. Medicare pays for a fractions of your medical costs and the
drug plan is a joke. Is this what America is really about. I don't think so.
WE CAN DO BETTER and government does not always have to be the enemy. The country voted for change because we need it.
If we don't change we will sink even further than we have already.
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dontlikeliver
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Luvs2ride
I come to NY to see an LLMD for the same reason people all over the US travel out of state for an experienced LLMD who has the guts to rx long-term abx. It's not that I couldn't get the abx here, I can now on the NHS, BUT there are no LLMD's with 20+ years experience in tickborne diseases here. So, my choice is based on the experience of he doctor himself, nothing else.
What my LLMD recommends, I then take back to the UK and my gp gives the meds to me 'free'.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ugagal: Under socialized medicine get ready to wait 2 years for a MRI or other medically necessary test
Also, making any doctor's appt might mean waiting 6 months or longer.
There will be some important disadvantages!
I'm sorry, but that is bullcrap. I am in Canada and have had 2 MRIs in the past 2 years. It took 1 week of waiting for the first one, 2 weeks for the second one. The longest I have ever had to wait for a dr appt. is 5-6 weeks.
I'm not saying the Canadian system is perfect - it isn't. We definitely do not have enough LLMDs to go around here and that is a big problem.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
What are you talking about:
"But when that becomes a Government Mandated practice, don't be shocked when the disabled are shuffled to the bottom of the heap. Afterall, you are a drain on society and Society must survive at the cost of some unlucky individuals. That is socialism! Hardly charitable."
American is already there without socialized medicine. There are millions who have no health care, no dental care and lose all of their teeth and those who die because of lack of access to it in AMERICA.
Not to mention all the people who have Lyme and lose medical care and cannot afford to get help or buy medications and suffer as we do.
Your argument does not hold water.
What do you think an HMO is anyway. It's socialized medicine with all the bad aspects and none of the good. They tell you what doctor you can go to, the insurance company overrules your doctor's determination as to what procedures and medications you can have and you are paying for it to boot!
Congress has socialized health care but they have the good kind and its FREE. They get all the benefits because their system is run well. The veteran's administration has socialized medicine.
In the past it worked relatively well, until the system got so over loaded and underfunded.
When there is a will there is a way. If America could figure out how to put a man on the moon it certainly can figure out how to provide affordable health care for all
that works and meets everyone's needs. But the population needs to wake up and demand what they are rightfully entitled too. We have been asleep
for too long and now you see the mess we are in.
No system is perfect but what we have not is a laughing stock, a disgrace, except for those who still have good coverage thru corporations and they are rapidly losing that. It will soon be a thing of the past as companies cannot afford it any more and know its cost is a heavy burden keeping them from being competitive across the globe.
America can improve upon the flaws that are inherent in the systems of other countries if the commitment is there. Medicare is run by the
government and except for the fact that you have to pay for a gap policy to pick up the 20% it doesn't cover and the fact that drug coverage is a joke, Medicare works VERY well and it's a government run program, also know as socialized medicine.
It can be done and government don't forget is us, we are the people, that make up the government.
If Americans stayed involved, educated themselves on the issues like they do in other countries we could have a government that served our needs.
NOT ALL GOVERNMENT IS BAD. Certain groups want you to believe that.
[ 03-07-2009, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
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Abxnomore
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Don'tlikelive you are not alone. I agree with you and am happy that you have found a way to get
treatment for your Lyme disease. I'd do the same thing, if I were you.
No system is perfect but the argument that Europeans have had long waits and can't get prompt care has long been an argument used to
scare Americans away from Universal health care and they have bought into it like a flock of scared sheep for years.
The time is ripe in America because we have the largest amount ever of uninsured and the numbers are rising every month and with the recession and
industry and government know that they can never be competitive again shouldering the cost of health care while competing against companies in nations that don't have that additional cost burden.
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kelmo
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Member # 8797
posted
Meg, member #22, been around and seen it all. Good for you, Meg!
Actually, Geneal is correct, Obama's plan will make health care available for all, but the blueprint for treatment will be even tougher than the IDSA's.
Like her grandmother in Germany, the same policy will be applied here. If two people get cancer, or need an organ transplant, the decision will alway be made in favor of the younger, more productive member of society.
You have got to read his proposal. The universal healthcare he proposes is not what we want.
There HAS to be a way for medical coverage to be available for all, but not cut back on the quality of care we have now.
Our hospitals are no longer non-profit due to the amount of illegal citizens clogging up our ERs.
Do you remember the days of early HMOs. You never saw the same doctor twice in a clinic. If you had an illness that required a specialist, you had to wait weeks to get a referral.
With Lyme, you may not ever see a lyme literate physician, or have a choice to see one.
I am not worried for myself, I could die tomorrow and be fine with it. But, I'm fighting tooth and nail for my daughter to get into remission before Obama's medical plan goes into affect.
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dontlikeliver
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Meg,
There aren't many of us on Lymenet who are speaking from experience of using both systems. Most are speaking from one perspective - the angle of their own interpretations of what they've read or heard, which is usually 'just' someone else's opinion. Most reactions are not based on FIRST-HAND experience; they're based on assumptions that are usually based on someone else's interpretations and assumptions......kind of like Chinese whispers.
Again, yes Canadians and people in Europe and in the UK will come to Seeking a Doctor forum to seek an LLMD; but it is not unique to those outside of the USA.. Most seekers on there are in the USA - they are domestic! The seeking, from wherever it's being sought, has nothing to do with whether the medical system is a private-for-profit-driven or social-provided by taxes one......it is a whole different matter; like comparing apples and pears.
As it happens, at this moment MOST of the ILADS LLMD's are in the USA because (particularly on the East Coast) is where tickborne disease is rampant and known about and it's agreed by both IDSA and ILADS that that is a geographical problem area. But, they are not completely exclusive. There are other ILADS docs in other countries. Dr. M is one, but she's no longer taking on new patients but doing research. Then there's Dr. O in Wales.
So, in countries where Lyme is not quite as rampant/prominent, it is natural that there are hardly any doctors specializing in it, when there are hardly any in the USA either when you consider the huge population and KNOWN cases of Lyme. There are a few LLMDs in the UK, and many people here do see them. Though none exceed the number of YEARS experience of Dr H or Dr B (retired) ,etc. So, if I was still living in NY a this time, I would still choose an LLMD with the most number of years experience, as I am doing from here, with that particular disease than whatever system operates within.
Let's not kid ourselves that America is the land of abundance of LLMD's and easy access to long-term abx any more than anywhere else in the world. It is not, we know that; wherever we are we all face that same common thread and it is not system related, it's lyme-war related.
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dontlikeliver
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quote:Originally posted by kelmo: There HAS to be a way for medical coverage to be available for all, but not cut back on the quality of care we have now.
That is IT. Short, sweet and to the point.
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Geneal
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Member # 10375
posted
Following Katrina, we lost our house, our jobs, our way of living.
We lost our health insurance. Still had to pay a house note
On a house we couldn't even live in.
Why my plight wasn't exactly like someone who had been laid off,
I am not without sympathy/empathy for those facing hardship.
We lived without electricity for 37 days outside.
I often thought that this was what it was like to live in a 3rd world country.
Until we found out where the MRE's were being given out,
We lived on what we had. It wasn't much since the tornado did so much damage.
No couch. No furniture. No washing maching, no dryer.
It was really bad.
I immediately applied for state run Medicaid for my children.
They had to be covered.
My husband and I went without. Couldn't afford it.
The poor and those without can do the exact same thing I did.
Apply for Medicaid. The government already provides this.
When I was young, owning a home was an American Dream.
Not a right.
Driving is a privelige, not a right.
You have to earn that driver's license.
You had to work to earn that house.
I've paid for private insurance for the whole family
As soon as my husband got a job.
We still owed monies on a house that was gone.
We were threatened with foreclosure unless we paid the balance in full!
Uh.....yeah, okay, sure.
I didn't see anybody coming in to "save" our family from financial devestation.
All proceeds from insurance went to pay the house off.
We didn't get anything "extra".
Wait,they did give me a deferrment on my Student Loan for my Graduate degree.
Every little bit counted. Then and now.
I think we mistake priveliges for rights here in the US.
Since we pay specific taxes for school, medicaid, and medicare,
Those are by right to be provided to us.
While I may not like the fact my health insurance costs'
Exceed my mortgage every month,
I still would pay that to have the right to see any doc.
In my very humble opinion, it is the health care system
That works for profit is what needs to be looked at.
Maybe capping numbers for a family of 3, 4 or 5.
I still want the freedom to pick and choose whom I go to
When I go and how often I want to do it.
I guess I think we have too much government already.
Remember Governor Jendal's republican response to the Obama speech.
We here in Louisiana have seen first hand how the government works.
(And doesn't).
We received no extra help here. I didn't live in the right zip code,
So I didn't get a FEMA trailer.
It is one thing to speculate about how the government will do things,
It is another to be on the receiving end for the
"Worst Natural Disaster" to hit the US.
I will forever be grateful for Medicaid.
I would also never willingly depend on our government to "fix" anything.
Just my very humble opinion.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
dontlikeliver -- You bring up many many good points and it is good to hear from someone that understands (and is living through) the pros and cons of both systems.
Thank you for bringing your insight! It is much much appreciated!
Rocephin / Zithromax / Supps Posts: 107 | From Plainview, New York | Registered: Sep 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I don't think you can compare the situation with Lyme disease, which is unique in and of itself, with health care in general. I don't see large numbers of people from
other countries coming here for care for other illnesses (with the exception of rare surgeries from third world countries), in fact, I see many American's going
abroad for alternative Cancer treatment and other cutting edge types of medical treatments, Germany and Switzerland come to mind. Germany is noted
to have a very superior medical system incorporating many homeopathic modalities. Looking at the the birth and death rates of other countries we rate way down. Doesn't say much for our system.
Let's stay on course, the subject is whether Universal coverage is right for America keeping in mind that Lyme disease does not exist in the minds of the present medical scheme. Most of us
now have to pay out of pocket even if we are lucky to have good medical coverage. I sure have spend more than my life savings with excellent health coverage.
And keep in mind that if people from Europe or else where are coming here for treatment it is because of the nature of lyme disease (for our LLMD's), not because, they have socialized medicine.
nd I know many others as Don'tlikeliver from other countries who have in the end fared better than us getting the knowledge of our LLMD's and using the free services of their own medical system and cheap medications. I say more power to them.
I also know many who have come here and have spend a dear sum and are still very ill. And there are more and more LLMD's in Europe, they are just hard to find and not as many as in the
U.S. and in reality we really don't have that many. Most Americas cannot afford to see them either.
I have two good friends in Holland, one in Switzerland an one in Germany with Lyme and they have many friends with the illness and they have managed to find doctors to treat them but just like here it was not easy.
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dontlikeliver
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posted
The misconception here, or one of them, is that because a country has a socialized medical sysstem - meaning every citizen pays into the 'same insurance pot' (rather than various ones) and draws from the same medical resources/system that it is controlled in a big brother-ish way in which you have no say whatsoever. It really is not that "1984-ish" for those that remember that movie. Yes, it means if you want to use the social system, you have to pick a doc in your area (not 500 miles down the road, though now you can for a specialist, do just that through "choose and book"). If you live in a SMALL place though, like I do, that limits your choice of docs you can see in your area on the NHS....BUT THERE IS STILL THE CHOICE THEN OF GOING PRIVATE AND GETTING YOUR OWN INSURANCE AND GOING WHEREVER YOU WANT FOR WHATEVER TREATMENT/TESTING/ETC YOU WANT. So, it's not like you're forced into one or the other.
YES, the one big drawback is that there is a budget and often decisions are based in accordance with the budget, BUT the American PRIVATE INSURANCE system is not really different - they ALSO DO NOT WANT TO FORK OUT. The difference is that they're not ONE POT, they are many pots.
The difference is, in America if you have top of the range insurance you're free to get whatever you want pretty much, and instantly, which is GREAT...........if you can afford the premiums. I was that lucky once, I had 100% coverage, no copayments, no deductible etc..... Though even with that 'great' insurance I had, those more expensive things I got and got whenI wanted, STILL MISSED the fact I had Lyme disease for many years. In fact, it was discovered here in the UK after I'd moved here....almost by a fluke. I then decided I wanted the most experienced doc to do with Lyme and he could only be found back home, in the USA.
If, however, you're not that lucky then you can either get good with moderate insurance for a lesser premium, which would compare to the National health service, or you can get adequage or poor............or you can get nothing. Whiever one you choose, if you have Lyme, it really makes no difference........you're not likely to get what you need for more than five minutes.
It seems to me that there's quite a number of people who would rather have the 'nothing' choice out of a misconceived fear that 'the government' is going to be telling you what you can and can't do with your health, rather than for ALL to have something that is over all good enough for each individual yet for those that it does not suit THEY CAN STILL BUY PRIVATE INSURANCE WITH ALL THE BEST OPTIONS, THE QUICKEST OPTIONS, etc etc. Still, as we all know in this community, when you have Lyme though, it doesn't matter if you have insurance with all the bells and whistles as they will still not be handing you your indefinite antibiotics on a silver platter. The politics of that/Lyme wars get in the way of WHATEVER system any of us are under or choose to have.
I guess the only way in which I am going to sound less crazy to some is that if you're able to get on a plane and live in different places and TRY the different ways/systems, your perception may alter slightly......and in either direction. But, I guess there is some truth in the British saying which goes "suck it and see" - meaning you can't really tell until you've actually TRIED it.
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Abxnomore
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Member # 18936
posted
WELL SAID, and right on point! The myth of America is just that a myth and long gone.
And fewer and fewer people will have those great insurance policies. Industry is siding with
government to get the cost of heath care off their back as they can't afford it any more and cannot be globally competitive.
If you are ultra rich in any country you can get what ever you want.
But with a disease like ours what does it matter when we pay for most of what makes us better out of pocket?? We have an out dated mind set long
entrenched in he minds of Americans that government should keep out of our lives. That is
why until our economic crisis under the great leadership of the last administration caused a global financial collapse other major
industrialized countries had a much better standard of living than we do, a higher birth
survival rate than we do and less poverty.I've spent much time abroad and I have seen and experienced the difference.
We can continue to live in the 19th century or we can enter the 21st century like most of the industrialized world has done under our new leadership.
Amazing their is so much resistance, but then again in those other countries the populace is
informed and speaks out on issues when they are not being represented properly. Going to the mall isn't where they get their information.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
You might find this appropriate, it comes from Off-Topic LN, circa 2007.....has it changed? http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/6401#000000 ******************************************** Neil M Martin LymeNet Contributor Member # 2357 posted 18 October, 2007 03:12 PM a-canadian-universal-health-care
Hey Guys; I've seen on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.
First of all: 1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.
2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.
3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement
4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.
5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.
6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.
7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.
8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.
9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.
10) My mother needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite her and my father pay ing into the health care system all these years. My Mom is 80 years of age. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.
11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.
12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy. 13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.
14) Oh yeah we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered under the health care system.
I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when b roached with this subject.
Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
It sounds a lot like our health system, especially
for those on the lower end of the economic ladder.
And who is to say that if we do adopt Universal
Health Care that our plan will be the same as
theirs??? Looks like needless scare tactics to me.
We are in 2009 and this is a different country.
My friend fell and broke her nose a while back while being out of town. She was bleeding, her nose was terribly mishapen
and we waited in an emergency room from 5:00 pm until 6:00 am to be seen while she sat in pain
and her nose continued to swell. Why, because all of the nations poor, who are uninsured use the ER for their primary health care. Is that a better system?? I'm not so sure.
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
well said, abxnomore and dontlikeliver. i've had many similar ER experiences here in nyc: waiting for hours and hours and hours (i think 10 or 11 hours was the worst) because the ER was full to bursting with poor folks who are uninsured and have no choice but to wait until the last possible minute to access care. and what did i receive after waiting all those hours? an enormous bill i couldn't pay, of course.
certainly, no system is perfect, but does anyone wonder why we're the ONLY industrialized nation in the entire world without some sort of universal health care?
number 37?! saudi arabia and the united arab emirates are both doing significantly better than the USA when it comes to health care. that is a disgrace.
though i don't know anyone using the french system, it is no surprise to me after seeing 'sicko' that france is ranked number 1.
also, check out our awesome infant mortality rates (yes, that was sarcasm):
again, we need to look beyond lyme here. lyme is a special case -- every nation is, sadly, equally ignorant when it comes to our illness. that has nothing to do with whether or not universal care is a healthy and viable option for the united states.
geneal, i am so so sorry to hear all you've gone through during and post-katrina. i can't imagine. the government's response to that disaster was abysmal. but please remember who was in office then, who had been in office for five years previous. it is my contention that bush and his administration ignored katrina because a large percentage of its victims were poor and black, and he could've cared less whether they survived or not. our administration is different now, we have new and different possibilities on the horizon.
luvs2ride
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Member # 8090
posted
Hey,
I just went to Barrack Obama's website to see exactly what he has in mind for our healthcare and if his website is telling the truth, then I am 100% onboard with his program.
If you will read it, you will see he is AGAINST universal healthcare.
The only thing I don't find on here is an explanation how people without jobs or with low incomes and no healthcare will get healthcare.
Isn't that the only people missing out on healthcare right now?
Otherwise, I stand 100% beside him on the things he states on this website and I don't think you guys have read it. At least, he is not offering what you seem to be expecting.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Luvs2ride you are 100% correct! My wise grandfather always told me "If it looks too good to be true...then it probably is." I'm afraid there is going to be a very large group of Americans who will be greatly disappointed in the "FREE" government insurance.
Also, I was not raised to believe I was entitled to anything in this ole life and if I wanted better then I would have to work for it. Whatever happened to that belief?
-------------------- My comments on this site are not intended to be taken as medical advice as I'm not a physician. Posts: 206 | From Georgia | Registered: Dec 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
quote: Whatever happened to that belief?
Lyme Disease
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Just wanted to comment on the 'infant mortality rate' comment.
In the US, most hospitals will try to save a baby that is 24 weeks gestation or more. Actually, some hospitals MUST try to. Their was a Neonatolotgist at my old hosptial who saved a few 22 weekers, and fortunately they survived.
Now, if that child dies, s/he is listed in the infant mortality rate. Plus when more people are using infertility drugs, the rate of multiples increase and the rate of premature birth.
Other countries do not count these babies in their infant mortality rate because they let them die at birth saying there was nothing they could do and in many hospitals that is most likely accurate.
So please know that much of the factor is due to our specialized health care that tries to save preemies (and I am very much FOR saving the preemies, I used to be a NICU nurse).
posted
I just wanted to pipe in as someone who lives in Canada. I pay $60 a month in healthcare premiums. That covers my visits to the doctors and if I need surgery, xrays etc. I would rank the quality of care as good - to very good. Not to say that there are not problems with waiting lists, but I have always gotten prompt professional care (Lyme disease is another matter).
Some food for thought: 1. In Canada, per capita, we pay less for universal coverage for all of our citizens than the US government does for partial coverage for some of its citizens. There are tremendous cost savings related to economies of scale re: central planning.
2. People n Canada do not go bankrupt from paying for health care. A close friend of mine was diagnosed with late-stage cancer and received top notch care for 18 months for free (aside from the $60 health premium we pay). He is fully recovered.
3. Patients who are operated on in non-profit hospitals have higher survival rates than for-profit facilities. I will look around to provide the link.
The Canadian system is far from perfect but I am very happy that we have it.
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heiwalove
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posted
thanks for sharing that, gwenb. if things don't turn around in the US in the next few years re: healthcare and gay marriage (another issue entirely, i know) i might just give up and move north.
luvs2ride
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Member # 8090
posted
Yep. If he does it the way his website outlines it, it won't be free at all, but will be more affordable AND will be paid for by the user.
And we still choose our doctor and treatment will not be overseen by the insurance company.
I'm very comfortable with the sound of that program.
We already have taxpayer sponsored free health clinics, medicare and medicaid as well as insurance for our veterans. Not to mention the Red Cross, the Salvation Army and the United Way. So, why aren't these programs sufficient?
If some do not qualify for medicaid because they have a job but not health insurance then just make medicaid more available. What is wrong with that plan?
I agree America's quality of medical care stinks but I attribute that to a mindset that loves to run diagnostic tests but has a hard time identifying what the problem is and never, never looks for the cause. Just treats the symptoms.
I attribute it to our pathetic diet and lifestyle that no one wants to give up. They just want a pill to make it all not matter.
I do not attribute it to a lack of someone else to pay the bill.
Integrative care and personal responsibility for our health is what is lacking in our medical care.
Susan
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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dontlikeliver
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posted
quote:Originally posted by ugagal: Luvs2ride you are 100% correct! My wise grandfather always told me "If it looks too good to be true...then it probably is." I'm afraid there is going to be a very large group of Americans who will be greatly disappointed in the "FREE" government insurance.
Also, I was not raised to believe I was entitled to anything in this ole life and if I wanted better then I would have to work for it. Whatever happened to that belief?
But, it would not be "FREE". It's still paid for; it's just a different system where YOUR taxes pay your insurance, or if you are self-employed, YOUR WAGES pay your own contributions to the insurance 'pot'.
So, if you've then PAID your contributions, are you not "ENTITLED" to reap the benefits of what you paid into?
Let me just make an assumption that 'you' right now have private medical insurance for which you pay premiums, either your employer pays them as part of your employment contract, or YOU pay the premiums because you work for yourself.......whoever's paid these premiums, do you not feel "ENTITLED" now to use the benfit of the insurance you've paid into when you go to the doctor, hospital, have surgery or get your prescriptions?
It appears that a large number of people would rather 'shoot themselves in the foot' than actually, REALLY, understand the benfits that could be gained by America adding an alternate, 'social' medical system (on TOP of your private one if that's what you want to do instead). The point is, choice. People CAN then stick with their old traditional favorites, believe what was a truth 100 years ago and live by that now, OR have the new up-to-date choice of another path.
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dontlikeliver
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posted
quote:Originally posted by ugagal: Luvs2ride you are 100% correct! My wise grandfather always told me "If it looks too good to be true...then it probably is." I'm afraid there is going to be a very large group of Americans who will be greatly disappointed in the "FREE" government insurance.
Also, I was not raised to believe I was entitled to anything in this ole life and if I wanted better then I would have to work for it. Whatever happened to that belief?
Yes, but to REALLY understand something, usually one has to do more than LOOK or read or listen to someone else's opinion, which these days whatever you read is someone else's opinion, and if it's in the press or news it usually focusses on any NEGATIVE experience or aspects and ignores the positive.......so, naturally the 'masses' take someone else's second or third hand experience as a truth that is going to apply to all from here on out.
I know it's not possible, but the only way to really be able to know and weigh up these things is to try the different options. Most Americans won't or are not in a position to go galavanting around the world and gain access to sample their different systems. Most of my OWN family in America do not have passports and don't care to know about, or visit, nations and systems outside the only one they know, or THINK they know because why should they - they KNOW all they need to know from the comfort of their own armchair, watching FOX news or whatever - that's virtually as good as real experience, I suppose. Is the lack of curiosity or hunger for knowledge and experience and not 'exercising' critical thinking because of 'what'.....or because America has everything and knows how to do everything right already? If we want to keep up with the rest of the world we have to re-examine some traditions and beliefs which may not really apply any more, at least not in that they are going to bring POSITIVE CHANGE to most Americans.
Anyway, we're not going to solve the problems of the world or healthcare through Lymenet. I have the best of both worlds from where I am, so I am not sure why I'm making so much noise from here!! I've been off Lymenet for ages and perhaps now I should crawl back into my 'hole'....
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dontlikeliver
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posted
quote:Originally posted by luvs2ride: Dontlikeliver,
I love choices. But clearly you are having to come to America for your lyme treatment. Where will you go if America socializes their medicine?
Heiwalove, America is one of the most charitable countries on this earth. Absolutely, everyone is entitled to the basic needs of life and everyone who can get those needs on their own power is obligated to do so and God directed to never forget the poor, the widows and the orphans.
But when that becomes a Government Mandated practice, don't be shocked when the disabled are shuffled to the bottom of the heap. Afterall, you are a drain on society and Society must survive at the cost of some unlucky individuals. That is socialism! Hardly charitable.
LindainRhodeIsland,
I agree with you 100%. People want to say the pharmacutical companies and the insurance companies are greedy but they are in bed with the politians. Yes folks, the very same people you want to hand all our money and our healthcare choices over to.
Democrats are supposed to be for the little guy but they were the first to line up right alongside our "so called republican" president to hand a fortune over to corporations who had mismanaged and even swindled their way into the financial fiasco we are now in. Those corporations had plenty of help from our polititians both democratic and republican who paved the legislative way for them and pressured them into providing loans for people who could never pay it back. Capitalism has not been at work for a long time now, but greed has been operating without anyone to oversee and prevent it.
Right now, after so many Obama appointees have been found remiss in paying their own taxes, I would like to see an audit of every single polititian. Who else isn't paying their fair share?
You want equity and justice from our government?
GOOD LUCK!
Susan
I will still go to my LLMD in NYS. Why shouldn't I? As I live outside the US and I have the choice now as I would in the future, I will choose to carry on seeing him as a paying customer because as I do not reside full-time in the USA at the moment and am paying into the UK 'national insurance pot'; I would not be 'entitled' to use the US one at the same time.
Anyway, I think we all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done and can focus on our similarities rather than differences there. I think I've said more than my fair share and will 'bow out' here.
Good wishes to all
DLL
[ 03-08-2009, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: dontlikeliver ]
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Abxnomore
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posted
Don'tlikeliver....It's a breath of fresh air
to know there are still some who go out of
their way to understand the issues, don't get them
from FOX news, and is objective and open minded
and has experienced the world. Americans for too
long have had a very narrow view or the world and
their own society. That is why our new president
is the right man at the right time. He has a cross
cultural 21st century view. Too bad he became
president and inherited the worst mess ever.
Has anyone every wondered why the U.S. and
and England are doing the worst right now with
regard to the
banking situtation and the recession...Regan and
Thatcher....same polices got them there.
The other European countries are faring much
better and they are
mostly sufferering the repercussions of
America's economic collaspe that has affected
the entire global economy. Addressing health care
is critical to getting America back on its feet,
along with the 10 million other things that need
to be fixed.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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omgwtfbbq
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by gwenb: 2. People n Canada do not go bankrupt from paying for health care. A close friend of mine was diagnosed with late-stage cancer and received top notch care for 18 months for free (aside from the $60 health premium we pay). He is fully recovered.
People in Canada do not have a ton of illegal immigrants that don't pay taxes and would suck the health care system dry either.
The emergency rooms here are required to treat regardless of ability to pay, and it shows in the quality of care. Unless you have chest pains or come in half dead on an ambulance you WILL have to wait hours and hours because so many illegals and medicare recipients come in with colds and other BS that should not be there. They clog up the emergency room and never pay for it. I don't want to see the whole medical system in the same state. Many hospitals are closing their ERs because of this crap. If we get universal healthcare any Jose or Jesus down in Mexico that's got cancer or something serious will just cross the border and buy some papers so they can get free US medical care. They take pride in abusing the US system to their own advantage already! Yes, I know people that have had to work with and manage some of these illegals with fake papers so I'm not just making this up. Until you've seen it in person, it's hard to comprehend just how much these people WANT to screw the US and providing universal health care would be the same as bending over and handing them the lube, then telling them to have fun.
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
quote: If we get universal healthcare any Jose or Jesus down in Mexico that's got cancer or something serious will just cross the border and buy some papers so they can get free US medical care.
Do you have any idea how racist and mercilessness that came off?
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
If the US government had a good track record in social programs, that would serve to boost the argument for socialized medicine, but instead that track record is poor. It's easy to see why: sovereign immunity plus a lack of checks and balances means a government run operation comes loaded with costly waste.
Government programs that mostly benefit those in real need is a wonderful dream, but an impractically idealistic one. Instead, those who benefit the most are the fat cats who manipulate the system. As evidence we need to look no further than the billions of dollars disappearing into various bailouts right now.
We've drifted quite far from Kennedy's "Ask not what your country can do for you..."
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Abxnomore
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posted
Canada had a much more liberal immigration system
than we did. I think it's tightened up since 9/11
but they have plenty of people from other
nations,
the difference is they take care of them with their
medical system so yes they are not clogging up their
ER rooms because they have medical care for everyone.
And, in the U.S. it's not only illegal
immigrants but America's POOR that are clogging up
the ER rooms. DON'T YOU KNOW THAT AMERICANS
ARE NOT COVERED AND ARE SUFFERING????
[ 03-08-2009, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
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Abxnomore
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posted
"Do you have any idea how racist and mercilessness that came off?"
It's easier to blame it on others then to try to
get our government to provide a system that works
for all Americans.
Yes, it is very racist and insensitive. They are not
our problem it's the American people who don't participate in the political process but are more
content to eat junk food and go to the mall and acquire needless material consumer items.
Well, those days are over!
[ 03-08-2009, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
You're right Abxnomore. I would think people with Lyme Disease would be more compassionate to those in need, but when it comes to providing care to others, it seems they parrot the same middle class dogma. "I care about me and my family, period. Screw everyone else."
You have to understand, this current system is collapsing, it will entirely devour all of us shortly. We're at a point now where we absolutely must reform policy and stabilize the economy. So common is the fact that people who have more often take at the expense of those who have less.
Now those who have more are being asked to sacrifice to reestablish some balance so that we all don't go under. Do I like that? Absolutely not. We're all being asked to tighten our belts even more -- especially the upper and middle class, and while the poorer get poorer and everyone gets sicker from chronic illness and lack of preventative care -- the burden on an already overwhelmed and dysfunctional system is snapping beneath the pressure. You think this is Generation X and Y's fault? Remember that huge ruckus about the Baby Boomer generation entering the Medical System?
If you wonder why most of us young people were protesting Iraq, and a vast array of other things that President Bush was doing, you're now seeing why. All this money we've spent -- 2-3 trillian dollars plus, paying for needless war, and helping enormous corporations who abandoned ethics to survive under the guise of "Now they're too big, and if they fall, they'll take everyone down." You don't think that's a problem? Do you know what 2-3 trillion dollars could buy? We washed it all down the drain. We could have reformed our entire medical system with the snap of a finger if we had chose to. We could have sent every highschool senior to college. Instead, what are we doing?
He's destroyed our economy indirectly and directly, and he was voted in again! With poor leadership, the followers were led astray too. Not once did I vote for that clown. Fiscal conservatism? Compassionate conservative? The propaganda and lies run so deep that the American people have consented -- willingly, to believing the manufactured machine.
You think it's an accident that these companies all went into a financial tailspin at the same time? You've got a lot to learn about economics and ethics if you don't think this was blatant capitalism in overdrive. Our environment is being destroyed to increase profit, our jobs are being outsourced, we're hiring children in third world countries to make our nike's for christ sakes. You don't think that's a problem?
This is what happens when loopholes are exploited and government officials (Bush administration) encourage corruption and artificially inflate fear to incite consent of criminal acts. We "allowed" ourselves to collectively be duped, and now most of you are still singing about how you've worked for everything you have, and how you're the one in control of your fate? You've been duped too. You know why you're still sick with Lyme Disease? The same reason our economy and world is being destroyed. For a profit at your expense.
Its not freedom when you have to work 3 jobs only to be incapable of paying for the very goods you're producing or serving -- when you pay for insurance premiums more than your mortgage only to be told "Sorry, it's not covered under your policy" when you need help the most.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
omgwtfbbq What about all the Americans who went to Mexico and Canada to by cheap medications, all U.S.
made before our dollar crashed. And how many of those people were people with Lyme disease? A lot of them and I was one of them!
That benefited us, so I guess that's OK???
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METALLlC BLUE
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posted
Another great point Abxnomore. The evidence is overwhelming. We're the problem. We started this mess, we took the bait, we're the fuse and the ammunition.
Jon Foreman writes:
When success is equated with excess The ambition for excess wrecks us As top of the mind becomes the bottom line When success is equated with excess
If your time ain't been nothing but money I start to feel really bad for you honey Maybe honey put your money where your mouth's been running If your time ain't been nothing but money
I want out of this machine It doesn't feel like freedom
This ain't my American dream I want to live and die for bigger things I'm tired of fighting for just me This ain't my American dream
When success is equated with excess When we're fighting for the beamer, or lexus As the heart and soul breaths in the company goals Where success is equated with excess
Cause baby's always talkin 'bout a ring And talk has always been the cheapest thing Is it true would you do what I want you to If I show up with the right amount of bling?
Like a puppet on a monetary string Maybe we've been caught singing Red, white, blue, and ...........green But that ain't my America, That ain't my American dream
I love America, but we're just a shadow of ourselves. We're a chronic world and social revolution that doesn't seem to have the will to see beyond our own short sighted bank accounts and personal problems.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
This has been in the making for 30 years, since Regan was elected, partners with Thatcher. The nations wealth has gradually been shifted upward so the top 5% benefited enormously from the tax breaks and laws
that were passed and all the economic gains were distributed upward while leaving the middle class in a position of losing real wages while having jobs continuing to be shipping overseas. Tax breaks and tax heavens for large corporations were promoted, regulatory laws were ignored and no body was, not interested in the working poor whatsoever,combined with
greed, fraud and stepping all over our constitution under the Bush administration. Trickle down economic didn't work.
It's time for some trickle up economics and the rich won't be harmed by paying a bit more in taxes if others are suffering.
We basically had corporate fascism but the average American was still in the dark thinking they still lived in the Greatest nation in the world. Sorry to inform you but it's not. We torture people an invaded Iraq without justification.
Well, we are forced to wake up now that people are losing their jobs, homes, saving, and can't access health care. Social change comes slowly but eventually things change. We are at a cross roads. Wake up. We need to follow a European model that
treats it citizens more humanely, gives job protection, health care and pensions or soon find our selves a fascist nation. Time will tell. Obama has the best chance ever to make big changes that will benefit all if the republicans would stop acting like children. It's the 21st century. A 19 century model won't work in a globalized world.
We have the greatest gap between the the rich and poor ever. And, we barely have a middle class any more. They are struggling and shrinking by the day.
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omgwtfbbq
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Abxnomore: omgwtfbbq What about all the Americans who went to Mexico and Canada to by cheap medications, all U.S.
I doubt those were government subsidized.
The US poor clogging emergency rooms are a problem. The difference is that they at least pay taxes, and they keep their money in the US. All the illegals I have known of have sent the majority of their paychecks back home to Mexico. It slowly kills the local economy when there are large numbers of them because of the resources used, no taxes paid, and very little money spent locally.
Notice that lots of people immigrate to Canada, BUT THEY DO IT LEGALLY and pay taxes. I have no problems with anyone from any country moving to the US and working and paying taxes, as long as they are here legally and paying taxes like the rest of us.
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Abxnomore
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posted
Then how can they sell them so cheaply, when they are U.S. made drugs????
The problem is not the people who come here illegally, it is the government who has not enforced its immigration policy and has turned a blind eye because it benefits business because they pay less for labor and don't have to pay for any benefits. They pay in cash (which is illegal) and don't have to pay taxes to the government associated with employing employees
Complain and get active in your government, don't blame people who are doing what they can to better their lives. If our country had a sensible immigration policy and enforced it, then they would not be in this country illegally. Our government has not enforced its immigration policy in years, they have knowingly looked the other way.
The government and business like the cheap labor just like they are keen on sending our jobs abroad because they pay pennies in labor as opposed to U.S. wages and don't have to pay any benefits. The businesses who hire them are the ones to blame, not the illegal immigrants.
I worked in an industry that is build on the backs of illegal immigrant labor and while my boss never hired illegal aliens I know all too well the issues involved.
It's always easier to project hate and anger onto the wrong party then to stand up to the forces that need to be challenged. The republicans like that cheap labor, too.
It's your government that needs to be made accountable and we know damned will the last one stepped all over the constitution and ran our government like the wild, wild west, so this issue was pure folly for George Bush and his administration.
Hopefully, when Obama wades thru the mess he has inherited the issue of a more sensible, enforceable immigration policy will be addressed, too.
[ 03-08-2009, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
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luvs2ride
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posted
Amusing to watch how all of you in support of socialized medicine have completely ignored Barrack Obama's website I posted earlier wherein he describes his new healthcare as NOT government sponsored.
You are lost in your idealistic world of perfect life.
Dream on.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I am well aware that it is not a government sponsored or so called socialized medical health care program. Did you follow the presidential campaign or did you listen to John McCain's lies? It's the republicans that have scared everyone into thinking that it will be socialized medicine by way of lies.
No one knows yet what it will be. It is being hashed out presently, beginning as of last week wherein he invited people from different sectors of the industry to discuss it. But it is possible that it just might lean more toward a universal type health care system based on what I am hearing. Many in industry know they cannot keep up with the costs associated with our current system and that it is totally broken. We have to wait and see what they kind of consensus they can get and what they can get thru congress.
Don't you know how our governmental process works. Just because he has listed what he wants doesn't mean he will get that. This isn't a dictatorship, quite yet.
You're the one who is dreaming and lacks a total understanding of our governmental process.
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posted
"It's easy to see why: sovereign immunity plus a lack of checks and balances means a government run operation comes loaded with costly waste."
I would agree with this, but when you look at the private insurance sector it is cushioned with enough overhead and profit to maintain giant buildings filled with tons of people, many of whom are being paid to deny benefits. And the profits are not small; they are enormous. So, in theory, if you were to take that huge chunk of money out of the equation, the profits, the cost of the whole enterprise would be that much less.
Unless, of course, people prefer to have enormous sums going into the hands of a small group of very rich people, who pay other people to say "No" to other people who are too poor to fight back, then we need to try something else.
My own insurance, a top-of-the-line private policy with all the bells and whistles (to coin a phrase), decided to stop paying for Lyme treatment after fifteen years. This was great coverage. the kind that everyone said I was lucky to have. I paid well over $800 a month, and had access to any doctor and med I wanted -- until the insurer decided otherwise. Thereupon, they sent my records to an IDSA stooge and stamped a big red DENIED on all my bills.
I don't know if a government system would work, and parts of it do scare me -- but overall, if anyone thinks that what we have now is ANY better than that which some of the scaremongers above describe, then I believe they are delusional.
PS -- Go Liver!
PPS -- This will likely be the last post in the thread, I seem to be the thread ender. Generally, once I chime in everything dies and everyone runs away.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Wow. Maybe I'm naive, but I thought more people here would have had my experience and therefore be in favor of universal health care:
I became disabled by chronic illness in 1995. I got SSDI, but had to wait for Medicare.
Meanwhile, for 18 months, I paid huge monthly premiums to keep my HMO through COBRA. But my HMO wouldn't cover my doctors, prescriptions, etc.
Then I got Medicare. It payed for MDs, chiropractors, assistive equipment, etc., which was all great, but I needed prescription coverage.
Then I got on our state's Medicaid program. It covers prescriptions and personal care assistance. To have them both is terrific.
I pay $3 for 16 shots of bicillin (which would otherwise cost ~$600) and $6 for Mepron (which would otherwise cost ~ $1200), etc.
I only know how much they really cost because of my monthly letter from my Medicare prescription co. I showed one to my mom and said, "See? This is why Lyme is a political issue."
I have a friend who is disabled, was on SSI, foodstamps, medicaid, etc. The joke that's popular in my crowd was, "Up to poverty!" (Because if you reached the poverty line, that was an improvement.)
Then she got married to someone who had a good income. She got private insurance through his job and got off all public assistance.
That seemed terrific at first. Now she has practically a full-time job to deal w/her private insurance co., which doesn't pay what it should, "loses" records, "accidentally" doesn't pay for covered services, etc.
Her healthcare was so much better on Medicaid.
I don't know where this idea comes from that government-paid insurance means you can't pick your own doctor? Yes, some doctors, therapists, chiropractors, etc., don't take Mcare or Mcaid, but some do.
Some don't take various private insurances, either. IME, most doctors take Medicare, and then fewer take Medicaid. But if we all had coverage, that wouldn't be an issue.
I love Medicare and Medicaid. I wish everyone had them -- everyone on this board, and everyone else, too.
-Sharon
Posts: 223 | From Western Mass. | Registered: Nov 2008
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
So, as I said earlier,
We already have taxpayer and citizen supplied medicare, medicaid, free health clinics, veteran's medical care, red cross, salvation army and united way.
Why is anyone complaining?
As for me and where I stand politically, you all have me pegged a republican but you are all wrong again. I am a libertarian.
I have very good insurance that pays all my "standard" treatment but I mostly choose alternative care which I pay for out of pocket.
I wish to keep my income and spend it as I choose.
I like the libertarian approach to social services.
1-Let charities be the frontline and give incentives to people to be charitable. Let government be a back up to the charities.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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