posted
Yeah, like I am sure that is going to happen. I have heard quite the opposite response from many of my local doctors.
Sounds like another scare tactic to me. I have a cousin in Iowa that is a doctor and his wife is one too. My cousin is an ER doctor and he says he can't wait to have reform so that so many uninsured ppl don't have to come through the ER which costs us all more money.
I have multiple friends that are doctors and none of them have said this, in fact they all agree we need reform.
I have one friend in upstate NY that is a doctor and she also practices acupuncture and she can't wait for reform. She has to turn ppl away who don't have a plan.
So sorry, but I don't really buy this one.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Well, you know there are a lot of doctors who should not be working as doctors. Maybe they got into it for the wrong reasons.
For the MANY good doctors who are battered by the system, I hope that a new system might give them the freedom they need to be the best doctors possible. If insurance companies could deny no claims, wouldn't doctors have more time to better treat patients?
Everything is not about money. Especially my health and yours =)
Ps I have a very good friend who is a PT and he is sick and tired of the Insurance company's only allowing their patients to get 24 visits per year. They dictate everything, so from that point he can't wait for reform and is hoping this reform bill will just get the ball rolling.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
and 65% of doctors oppose the health care reform as it now stands.
Then there will be the sudden increased demand for twice as many drs as we now have. Makes you wonder how it could possibly work.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Given the press isn't a free press anymore, they can be bought. Why don't we just survey our doctors and see how they stand. I'm curious about the truth and I sure don't trust the media any longer.
what do y'all think?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
My son-in-law is a doctor and he said he is leaning toward finding a new career if the health care passes.
I don't think he is alone!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote: For the MANY good doctors who are battered by the system, I hope that a new system might give them the freedom they need to be the best doctors possible. If insurance companies could deny no claims, wouldn't doctors have more time to better treat patients?
Umm I am pretty sure if anything docs will be harassed a lot more. They wont be able to do tests, nor the treatment which are not bureaucratically approved - right now you still can (somewhat) ,especially if you pay out of pocket, with regulations it would be considered criminally "wasteful spending" and prohibited and persecuted
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
We all want health care reform but the doctors that I know do not like what is currently proposed.
Yes, things need to change but we don't need to give the government control of our health care too.
An ER doctor that I know told me that he gets paid $2 dollars for seeing a medicare/medicaid patient. He works in a level 1 trauma center. He said that he can spend hours taking care of a critically ill/injured person and yet he will only earn $2 for all his hard work. McDonalds employees earn more than that in one hour!
I know several pediatricians and family practice doctors too. They told me that medicare/medicaid does not even pay them for check-ups or physicals. They spend 30min to an hour with a patient but they do not get paid. They know that they will not be reimbursed but they still perform physicals because they know that it is in the best interest of the patient. They know how important prevention is. Why does the government expect our doctors to work for free?
Medicare and medicaid also deny coverage all the time for imaging, procedures, and medications. They want to get by with paying as little money as possible even if it sacrifices the patients health and well being.
My insurance company is a pain but they are not nearly as bad as the current government run plans.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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Yes, things need to change but we don't need to give the government control of our health care too. ...............
Medicare and medicaid also deny coverage all the time for imaging, procedures, and medications. They want to get by with paying as little money as possible even if it sacrifices the patients health and well being.
Exactly.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I had a class reunion this past weekend. My G/F and 2 of my close friends have the grades to get into medical school and 2 have already been accepted. They have changed their minds now. All are going business now.
We are going to add another 50 million people to the system and doctor numbers are going down. Get ready for long wait lines and rationed care. Us lymies already know how that feels.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Doctors have told me they will consider dentistry.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
It doesn't surprise me. I think the 'new and improved' healthcare system is going to be a disaster!
As an RN (but haven't worked in 3 years now)...what is going to happen to the nursing shortage?? They will need many more doctors...but nurses are already in a huge shortage. Without nurses, there is no hospital care because that's what they do.
I wish someone would actually do the math and present it to Mr. President. Perhaps he would be look it over and 'see' what will happen before it's too late!
posted
My primary care doctor is currently planning to leave medicine, as are two others in his 5 doctor office
if this nightmare passes. I asked him two days ago face to face. Take that any way that you want.
Posts: 135 | From Orlando, Florida | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by luvs2ride: Doctors have told me they will consider dentistry.
Consider it for what, a toothache?
Or do you think they are going to commit themselves to quitting their practices, returning to school, and then taking many years to build a dental practice?
This seems pretty unlikely to me.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Let's look on the bright side, maybe Wormser, Shapiro, and the rest of the fellas will throw in the towel.
Posts: 845 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Last month, my primary is no longer accepting any form of insurance. He said most of his patients were Medicare/Medicaid and they were not paying up. I guess it is not a bad idea.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Its important in any health care that doctors again work for the best interest of the patient. Not some beaurecratic dictated procedure. The human body is way too complicated.
The next health care system has to be doctor friendly!!! It also has to deal with Medical Review Boards which have ruined many a good doctor's career.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Lets face it, we all know how many horrible doctors are out there that don't take us seriously, perhaps this will weed out the bad ones and we will get ppl to get into this profession for the right reasons.
Unless my doctors and PT's are lying they are ready and support reform and they feel like the 47million that don't have insurance need a plan so they don't just keep going through the ER which costs us all millions each and every year.
This will also bring them more business, not less. So from that point, I have to believe the American Medical Association that states that doctors support the plan.
I actually believe in the very near future you will see more ppl go into medicine as the demand goes up.
People complain about a government plan, but they are okay with a dictatorship plan that their private insurance runs(they already dictate what the patient gets anyway).
but hey, if your happy with your plan you will be able to keep it.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
The ratio of supply of doctors to the number of people in the country dictates the prices. The only way to knock prices down is increase the supply of doctors for greater competition and availability.
For cheaper insurance, allow them to compete across state lines. Some states have little as 3 insurance providers so competition sucks and the prices are very high. (This was put in place by government) There are some insurance companies I would really like to switch my business coverage over to in a neighboring state but I am not allowed.
quote:Originally posted by nomoremuscles: Let's look on the bright side, maybe Wormser, Shapiro, and the rest of the fellas will throw in the towel.
Au contraire - those would be the only one left. You wont have any good docs left whatsoever. I bet they will also make self treating almost impossible by banning mail order meds and heavily cracking down on supplements (check what they trying to do in Canada now)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Ok, why when someone disagrees with the Healthcare Reform why does it always rebutted by saying, "More Scare Tactics"? I am so sick of hearing that. I think that it is exactly the other way around....the government is trying to scare the public into going for this reform.
They all say they want a bipartisian solution, but they can't come to one.
I repeat that I would like everyone to have insurance; HOWEVER, the biggest reason I oppose this reform is because of how the government runs their other "businesses", whatever you want to call it they are all broke and being taken advantage of.
And, all of my doctors, and I have quite a few of them (LLMD, Fibro/Fatigue, Pulmonologist, Neurologist, Allergist, ENT, PCP, daughter's pediatricin) NONE of them want this reform. Many of them are already having to practice by a guideline in fear of being sued.
This is becoming such an aggravating topic.
Posts: 893 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2008
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
I am very interested in knowing why some people trust a group of politicians so much. You act as though the govt plan is going to pay for everything and all the corruption will just disappear.
Upon what evidence do you base that thinking?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by luvs2ride: I am very interested in knowing why some people trust a group of politicians so much. You act as though the govt plan is going to pay for everything and all the corruption will just disappear.
Upon what evidence do you base that thinking?
You have to remember that a lot of these people think Freedom means Free Things. It just so happens that when you want Free Things (which are not really free) from the government, then you will slowly erode your Freedom. History as proved this time and time again for all of time, but they refuse to think that. They want to think "Hey, this time Obama & Friends are going to get it right"
It's not stupidity, it is just ignorance of history and the facts.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
You're pretty smart Buster. Posts: 374 | From United States | Registered: Nov 2008
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kam
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 3410
posted
don't believe everything you read in print...especially when it does not have solutions but is used just to stir the pot and confuse things.
Our health care system needs work. What needs to be done is complex...a step at a time.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
There are LOTS of people at the top of the food chain in the current system making BILLIONS of dollars. They will say or do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to protect their money.
They HAD their chance to collect money from people in the form of premiums and provide care using that money.
We already SAW how well THAT went!!!
My GOD, Human greed is so out of control, it's unfathomable!
ALL the government is trying to do is regulate PROFITS. That's it. In my not-so-humble opinion, the provision of medical care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.
It NEVER should have been legal to profit form it. A non-profit, can pay its employees and use the the rest to return its proceeds to the organization.
Buster, there's a REASON we're 37th in medical care in the world, while being the absolute wealthiest nation on earth.
Don't be fooled by the lies they use in their fight to protect their profits. We are all HERE because it saved them money to AVOID treating us.
AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
If the financial playing field is equaled, what would be the incentive for one doctor to excel?
Does it not become like any other government-run "business"?
I recall noticing a bit of a difference after the privatization of the government-run "Department of Motor Vehicles".
I recall haven taken reading materials, a vacuum, windex, armor-all and paper towels with me to take my car through inspection.
I had sufficient time in those lines to do an impeccable detail job on my car & plenty of time left over to relax & read.
Since the privatization, there's rarely more than a few cars in line.
I wonder if we would see the inverse of that transition occurring if privatized healthcare becomes the "Department of Medical Care".
Though that could just be because NJ's State government is such a long-running joke and it was actually State-run.
I don't know but I think bureaucracy could be dangerous in medicine. Just look at the fear we have over the way we are treated in hospitals and imagine that grand-scale.
It would all come down to who's in charge and what they believe. The odds, right now, may NOT be in our favor for having someone Lyme-Aware appointed to oversee things.
I wish there was some way to know what the future would hold beforehand.
If we change, would it be possible for Obama to say "Oops, I made a mistake." & change things back?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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"Ok, why when someone disagrees with the Healthcare Reform why does it always rebutted by saying, "More Scare Tactics"? I am so sick of hearing that. I think that it is exactly the other way around....the government is trying to scare the public into going for this reform. "
Hmmm, let me see, maybe it's because corporate America is spending millions upon millions in advertising to convince us that the reform is bad. Why oh why would they be spending this kind of money????
You talk about the government using scare tactics. Show me how the government is using scare tactics???
Both sides agree our healthcare system is a complete mess and needs reform.
Both sides agree there are not affordable options currently.
Both sides agree that currently 47 million ppl do not have care.
Both sides agree that ppl with pre-existing conditions are being excluded.
Both sides agree that if something major is not done than we will remain in a huge financial crisis. I don't see that as a democratic scare tactic, rather a reality check.
Needs said: "They all say they want a bipartisian solution, but they can't come to one".
You are correct Needs, they can't come to one, because both sides keep using their politics as their ideology. It is a shame that we have come to this. It's like both sides absolutely despise each other.
God forbid we actually admit that the other side may be right, or is doing what both sides knows should be done. So many times it is about appearances and fulfilling what their sides platform position is.
But, putting that aside, in regards to wanting to offer affordable access to healthcare, no body has done anything in regards to healthcare for years and now all of a sudden when we finally have a president that is working on the issue, It's very interesting that the right is going to sit there and nit-pick each and every single little line item within it. Where the heck was everyone for the last 40 years????? We will never get anywhere with those attitudes.
Again, it boils down to either you want healthcare reform or you don't. If you do want this for everyone, than we need to put our money where our mouth is and if not, then we need to just admit it.
Needs said: "I repeat that I would like everyone to have insurance; HOWEVER, the biggest reason I oppose this reform is because of how the government runs their other "businesses", whatever you want to call it they are all broke and being taken advantage of. "
Do you have a problem with how the government runs our military? Or Medicare/Medicaid?(everyone I know that has Medicare/Medicaid likes it. Most like it better than the private insurance they used to have).
Also, if not the government, then who??? Who the heck is going to do the right thing here and start offering an affordable option?
I don't see big corporate america lining up to make concessions do you?
When no one makes concessions, that is when the government intervenes.
That is why you and I have electricity. It's called regulation.
You say you want everyone to have insurance, but not run by the government. So who do you propose is going to do this for these 47 million Americans? Last time I checked there was no private entity willing to give them an affordable option, hence the government is trying to help..
Needs said: "And, all of my doctors, and I have quite a few of them (LLMD, Fibro/Fatigue, Pulmonologist, Neurologist, Allergist, ENT, PCP, daughter's pediatricin) NONE of them want this reform. Many of them are already having to practice by a guideline in fear of being sued. "
That has absolutely nothing to do with the healthcare reform plan. That has everything to do with the fact that the insurance company's can point to the IDSA guidelines(their so called Bible) and refuse our treatment based on their guidelines.
That issue must be fought separately and the new reform plan has no bearing on our lyme treatments.(again if you like your current plan so much them you will be able to keep it).
I guess what is most mind boggling to me is that we of all people, being Lyme victims have been discriminated against and taken advantage of by Corporate America Insurance companies, Big Pharma and the Medical Community as a whole.
How can we sit here and let our fellow American citizens live in a country that is dictated to by the private sector, to the point of pushing and shunning those in need away from basic quality care? I will never understand that.
We are a so called "industrialized" nation and we lag behind so many others it's pitiful, and heartbreaking to think this is how we treat our fellow Americans.
Some here keep equating it to "freedom". I see it a little differently and say it is as if many here are "enslaved" to a Greed ridden system with no shot whatsoever at being able to even pay for a reasonable premium. Is that freedom?????? I think not.
Perhaps you will always disagree with me, and of course that is your prerogative, but I know in my heart this is the right thing to do for our country and those who are in need. That is why I feel so passionately about people being able to receive an affordable plan.
And for that, I can feel good about the reform plan if it passes. I am sorry if this subject is "aggravating" you, but it's a very important issue to the 47 million Americans who currently do not have a plan.
Peace
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by LymeLearned: There are LOTS of people at the top of the food chain in the current system making BILLIONS of dollars. They will say or do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to protect their money.
They HAD their chance to collect money from people in the form of premiums and provide care using that money.
We already SAW how well THAT went!!!
My GOD, Human greed is so out of control, it's unfathomable!
ALL the government is trying to do is regulate PROFITS. That's it. In my not-so-humble opinion, the provision of medical care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.
It NEVER should have been legal to profit form it. A non-profit, can pay its employees and use the the rest to return its proceeds to the organization.
Buster, there's a REASON we're 37th in medical care in the world, while being the absolute wealthiest nation on earth.
Don't be fooled by the lies they use in their fight to protect their profits. We are all HERE because it saved them money to AVOID treating us.
What do you have against someone that makes a billion dollars? If they do it in a lawful way, why the hate?
You say the government wants to regulate profits, you are wrong. Why did they bail out the big corporations? Why did they give multi million dollar bail out packages to the CEO's of failed companies? Let this blow your mind. Why are all the big insurance companies pushing for healthcare reform? It will make them more money because government can't pass a public option without going bankrupt even further than we are now.
Insurance companies stocks are going up when 'it seems' like they should go down. I do some financing and people are flocking towards investing in healthcare providers because this reform is going to force people to buy insurance. Who is going to force it? Your one and only, government. If you want to see for yourself, check out their volume, shares, and dividends. Also check their websites, they all are pushing healthcare reform. If insurance is going to have to cover 'everything' then no wonder the prices are high...
Health insurance is expensive because of governments regulations and people use their insurance for everything. Health insurance should only be used for a protection against a tragic accident or an illness that hits you out of no where. Not for exams, tests, labs, common cold, doctor visits, ect.
The reason government is helping the insurance companies out is, if they make more money that means more tax dollars for government because they don't tax the poor but they heavily tax the rich. So it is a win/win for government and insurance companies.
I don't understand all the hate for people that make alot of money? They pay 95% of all the countries taxes... maybe you should be thankful for their success instead of being jealous or greedy of them.
I would also like to see this statement that we are 37th in the world when it comes to medical treatment. I would like to know the source, who funds that source, and who works there. I am willing to bet it is 100% factual and not biased at all Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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I don't think anyone here has a problem with Capitalism. Why do you think we hate people who make money? Where does your statement come from? My husband and I make very good money, so your accusation of hate is absurd.
I think there is a huge difference making as you would say a billion dollars when you are selling products i/e like a car or computers etc.... but it's not right to profit that way when we are talking about monopolizing/profiting on our health care. WE are talking about the difference between life and death for many people. Again, We are not talking about buying a car for goodness sakes.
Do you think people should be able to profit to the extent that they are on peoples health????
If you do then that is your opinion, and quite frankly, I can't understand how someone can equate the two, but alas, I am learning interesting things about people daily.
PS I have enclosed the link from the World Health Organization a very reputable source that both the right and left and the whole world look to.
Here's where it states that the US ranks 37th. I don't see a bias here do you??? I would hope that you would agree that this is pretty darn factual, huh?
PS I would be happy to post other links to other rankings that the W.H.O. has compiled and we rank very low on life expectancy and tons of other areas as well including how we spend far more money per capita on healthcare and yet we receive far less.
Let me know if you would like to see those to.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Yeah I believe doctors should profit for their health provisions. They have to pay the bills too. Doctors are the most talented people in the country and also go through the longest and most expensive schooling in the country as well. 1 of my doctor friends was in debt until he was 45 years old and he is a pulmonary surgeon. They should be rewarded for all the hard work they do.
I am seeing that this 37th number was run back in 2000 and it is in relation to our money value ratio to treatment value. It does look like we do al ot of things good, like distribution, availability, responsiveness, 'dale', ect. It's just we happen to spend the most. Which I agree, we do spend the most. Which is the problem we have run into.
I can only imagine how they achieve these numbers, no wonder they haven't done it again for 9 years.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
I have been on so many playing sides of the field on this healthcare thing.
First, I was pregant and had no insurance. Medicaid accepted me. It was a traumatic experince.
Then, I had issues with the state run department of revenue, child support collections. 3 differnt times.
Social security is going broke. I know several people on medicaid/medicare here who are not happy. My mother only works to keep good insurance.
And, I won't be able to keep my insurance. There will be fines on business who try to keep their own insurance and even if they try to fight it, it will fail.
Oh, and I didn't even mention that I was in the military. For the most part it is ok; however, there still are lots of wastes/inefficiencies. And so many people just come in with a uniform on and do nothing all day long. It is crazy.
I worked for attorneys and doctors and I hate insurance companies. But, at least we have the right to argue and sue them. You can't do that with the government. Remember we can not sue a governmental enity.......not even for lyme treatment.
Should have just scrolled on by........
Posts: 893 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Buster said: "I am seeing that this 37th number was run back in 2000 and it is in relation to our money value ratio to treatment value. It does look like we do al ot of things good, like distribution, availability, responsiveness, 'dale', ect. It's just we happen to spend the most. Which I agree, we do spend the most. Which is the problem we have run into."
Yes, buster this was run in 2000 and our prices have sky-rocketed out of control since then. I would venture to guess the number is far worse now and we would rank even lower. A real shame.
Funny how you try to imply these numbers are false when you say "I can only imagine how they achieve these numbers, no wonder they haven't done it again for 9 years."
Are you insinuating you think the numbers are tainted? Do you even know why they were not done again? Are you now going to accuse the W.H.O. of a slant against the US?
Guess there is no reason to try to post well documented sources then.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
PS I never said doctors should not make a good living. You had asked in your prior post:
"What do you have against someone that makes a billion dollars? If they do it in a lawful way, why the hate?"
Read my response again. I said:
"I think there is a huge difference making as you would say a billion dollars when you are selling products i/e like a car or computers etc.... but it's not right to profit that way when we are talking about monopolizing/profiting on our health care. WE are talking about the difference between life and death for many people. Again, We are not talking about buying a car for goodness sakes."
And we have been discussing health insurance/health plans not doctors salary's.
Just wanted to clarify.
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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Notice based on the chart that our total expenditure on health as a percentage of gross domestic product was 13.2% in 2000 and rose to 15.3 % in 2006. Can you even imagine what it's now in 2009??????????
Perhaps we should just stay the course and do nothing or little and before long we will allow lets say 25 % of our country's gross domestic product to be spent on healthcare or how does 30% sound? Any takers for 40%?
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:Originally posted by liesandmorelies: Buster said: "I am seeing that this 37th number was run back in 2000 and it is in relation to our money value ratio to treatment value. It does look like we do al ot of things good, like distribution, availability, responsiveness, 'dale', ect. It's just we happen to spend the most. Which I agree, we do spend the most. Which is the problem we have run into."
Yes, buster this was run in 2000 and our prices have sky-rocketed out of control since then. I would venture to guess the number is far worse now and we would rank even lower. A real shame.
Funny how you try to imply these numbers are false when you say "I can only imagine how they achieve these numbers, no wonder they haven't done it again for 9 years."
Are you insinuating you think the numbers are tainted? Do you even know why they were not done again? Are you now going to accuse the W.H.O. of a slant against the US?
Guess there is no reason to try to post well documented sources then.
I never implied the study was wrong, I'm just saying no wonder they haven't done it again in 9 years because of all the work it would take to do something like that again. I'm a number cruncher and if I did something like that it would take me years to do something like that.
I know that we pay the most for healthcare, I'm not debating that... I'm debating how to bring the prices down.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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Notice based on the chart that our total expenditure on health as a percentage of gross domestic product was 13.2% in 2000 and rose to 15.3 % in 2006. Can you even imagine what it's now in 2009??????????
Perhaps we should just stay the course and do nothing or little and before long we will allow lets say 25 % of our country's gross domestic product to be spent on healthcare or how does 30% sound? Any takers for 40%?
No, I don't want to stay the course, your pushing for government control when no one realizes that government control is why our prices are so high.
Kick government out the the private system and prices will come down I promise you, but you voted in more government power. Reap what you sow.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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Kick government out the the private system and prices will come down I promise you, but you voted in more government power. Reap what you sow.
I do not entirely agree with that.Malpractice lawsuits, defensive medicine and emergency room abuses are definitely a big factor (and those are indirect consequence of government regulation ), but not the only one.
1st step ) -take out all the lawyers , billing and coding BS out of the system. Those so called "administrative" cost grew to 40% of total cost of medical care in some cases!
2) They should focus really on healing people and not running them trough the gammut of 15 minutes visits to "specialists", each on of them costing $200+. End result -sicker patients, on more expensive drugs, consuming more and more resources and contributing less and less
Right now all the incentives are in "doing procedures" and "prescribing" indefinitely -that what bring money into the system, not making people better
"For profit" has to go away from field of medicine. Period.
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Kick government out the the private system and prices will come down I promise you, but you voted in more government power. Reap what you sow.
I do not entirely agree with that.Malpractice lawsuits, defensive medicine and emergency room abuses are definitely a big factor (and those are indirect consequence of government regulation ), but not the only one.
1st step ) -take out all the lawyers , billing and coding BS out of the system. Those so called "administrative" cost grew to 40% of total cost of medical care in some cases!
2) They should focus really on healing people and not running them trough the gammut of 15 minutes visits to "specialists", each on of them costing $200+. End result -sicker patients, on more expensive drugs, consuming more and more resources and contributing less and less
Right now all the incentives are in "doing procedures" and "prescribing" indefinitely -that what bring money into the system, not making people better
"For profit" has to go away from field of medicine. Period.
We can't kick out lawyers because they are the ones who keep doctors and pharmacy inc. in check. We should stop government from allowing lawyers to sue for the highest dollar possible. The jury should decided the amount just like they decided the charges.
If profit went away, there would be no incentive to become a doctor. It is simple as that. The #1 and #2 ways to bring costs down is increase the number of doctors and stop insurance companies border regulations, what they are planning so far does the exact opposite.
Posts: 458 | From Miss | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote: We can't kick out lawyers because they are the ones who keep doctors and pharmacy inc. in check. We should stop government from allowing lawyers to sue for the highest dollar possible. The jury should decided the amount just like they decided the charges.
Cap all the damages at reasonable amounts .They already capped "suffering" damages for $250k in some states, they need to cap all damages to similar amounts. Frivolous lawsuits will go away
quote: If profit went away, there would be no incentive to become a doctor. It is simple as that.
Umm yes there will be .Same exact reasons as today- one of the largest salaries among professionals, respect, helping people etc. -
Medical providers should not be allowed to be for profit, they would use other performance metrics for compensation but profit (such as quality of care for example ), that doesn't mean that doctors would have no salaries
Check out "socialized" medicine in UK ,Canada , France, Japan etc etc. Doctors there do not beg on the street and enjoy quite comfortable standard of living. And , btw, even in poor countries (Russia for example) there are still doctors present ,despite many of them making only a $300 on average a month or so
quote: The #1 and #2 ways to bring costs down is increase the number of doctors and stop insurance companies border regulations, what they are planning so far does the exact opposite.
I fail to see how INCREASE in number of doctors brings down costs
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Again, you keep implying that people who disagree with you don't think doctors should make a decent salary.
Unless I missed something in this thread, not one person has said this or implied this.
Of course we believe that doctors should and will continue to make great salary's.
Much of the cost of healthcare in this country is spent on wasteful billing, absurd law suits, paying the corporate run insurance companies(Which you will still have the choice of keeping and supporting if you choose to) and paying into a system that is totally about the bottom line.
There will always be people who will want to go into medicine. Why the heck do you think there are waiting lines to get into the best medical schools???? I know multiple people who have been turned away and they have very good resumes for entering in to med school.
It's a highly competitive field and will remain so. My sons girlfriend and my friends son are both going into medicine, so when ppl say that ppl will not go into medicine, I just don't buy that argument.
The healthcare sector ranks in every single position in the top nineteen paid positions in this country. No other sector in our country is paid like this. We are putting all of our apples in one basket and our country is falling apart.
We are giving all our jobs away and are not producing much in the way of high technology or good manufacturing businesses.
I do believe the wealth has to be spread out a little bit more if we are to get back and or keep our competitive edge.
Believe me the doctors will continue to make incredible money and if that is the only thing that drives them, then they are not in the right field. If an average PCP doctor making lets say 350k is not happy unless he is making 500k per year, then he/she should really consider why the heck they are in the profession.
I also think most everyone here would agree that some of the charges that we are billed for medical visits and procedures are an outrage. They(the doctors) have to bill that way, because the private insurance agency's dictate how much they pay our doctors out. So who do you blame for that? The government?
Lymetoo,
Yes, I do trust the W.H.O...They are very well respected throughout the world and I am wondering why you don't trust them? What do you base that on? Just trying to understand. thx
-------------------- aka: Lyme Warrior
In order to do "real" science, you have to have a "real" conversation with nature.
Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History!
"Just Demand your Rights" Posts: 869 | From nor - cal | Registered: Apr 2008
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For handy reference I have included a link about who the World Health Organization (W.H.O.) is and a background of what they do, how they operate and as you can clearly see there is no bias here. They are revered as one of the finest health organizations in the world if not the finest in regards to what they do.
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