posted
Is this a curse? I mean in the literal sense, I have heard of generational curses of illness and infirmity. so many times it runs in families, not just lyme, but other diseases as well. Anyone ever thought of this?
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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posted
I am slightly confused by your comments...are you speaking of curse as in a Biblical kind of thing? Or simply an illness that plagues families for generations due to it being in their DNA? Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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kam
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No. I don't think it is a curse. It is a bacteria that needs medicine to kill it off.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I'm not sure, it could be either or. It just seems like certain things plague families ie, disease, addiction, mental illness. I don't really know where it comes from. But it seems like more than a coincidence. Look at the lyme community, whole families have it. Why is that? I can look at my family and see this going way back.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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posted
Homesick, I am an atheist so I certainly don't agree with the idea of it being a biblical kind of curse from the heavens. I agree with kam-this is a bacteria that needs treatment from a variety of sources to kill it off. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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surprise
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posted
Gestational transmission is a reason why families have it, living in the same area/campsites/ infecting family pets,
and perhaps genetically having difficulties detoxing.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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surprise
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posted
Also, there are many people (other families, if you will)
who do not have a CLUE. Calling it other health maladies.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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lax mom
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glm1111
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posted
homesick,
Dr. K. addresses this aspect and calls it miasmas. Google 7 physical & 7 spiritual causes of ill health. This is from Hanna Kroeger who is a well respected herbalist.
(Hanna Kroeger makes excellent herbs against disease) I have had good results from using Hanna Kroeger Wormwood Combo.
Very interesting info about dark forces and ill health. Pretty interesting stuff. Your intuition seems to be talking to you.
I agree, and always thought there was much more going on than meets the eye. I am going to check out miasma readings by Hanna.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I think the curse is our genetics, Genetics are why whole families are sick with Lyme.
If you can detox no problem, you just end up with Alzheimer's... okay that's my theory.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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MADDOG
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One of the seals that were opened near the end in Revelation was people were killed by wild animals.
The Lyme cycle needs wild animals to keep going.
Lyme is the only way lots of people could be killed by wild animals today.
Reason we would easily kill big animals attacking us. However it is impossible to shoot bacteria.
MADDOG
Posts: 4083 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2000
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glm1111
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But not impossible to poison the parasites that protect the bacteria, making it easier to kill the bacteria.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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glm1111
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Not that I believe in curses, but my mother was told by a psychic when she was younger that there was a curse on her. She died from ALS (misdiagnosed Lyme) Then there was me. hmmm
Was always in the back of my mind though.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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AuntyLynn
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"Put not your faith in soothsayers"
Sorry, I don't have the chapter and verse at my fingertips, but no doubt it is from the New Testament!
Families get Lyme because they live in lyme endemic areas.
I agree with what Surprise said above!
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
Throughout history, when a nation has turned its face from God, there has been consequences. Typically, when that happens, God withdraws his hedge of protection from around the offending country and MANY bad things happen to its people.
It is undeniable that America has turned its face from God and there are consequences.
Having said all that, I'm not convinced that Lyme is a punishment from God. In fact, I believe that the explosion of Lyme in the USA is the direct result of the weaponization of this disease at Plum Island by our evil, disgraceful government.
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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AuntyLynn
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Oh really PatriotM?
Then why did they find Bb in the prehistoric frozen mummy known as the "ice man" found in northern Italy?
Also, your theological translation is in direct opposition to my own understanding. But let's leave it at that.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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glm1111
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I agree, let's not forget about Plum Island and biowarfare bacteria and other bad pathogens and parasites injected into ticks.
Some of these scientists at Plum island were reported to be Nazi doctors from Germany. There is a dark force component to this disease. Biowarfare IMO is turning away from any light of love or God.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by AuntyLynn: Oh really PatriotM?
Then why did they find Bb in the prehistoric frozen mummy known as the "ice man" found in northern Italy?
There is a HUGE difference between a subtance existing in its natural form and that substance being weaponized.
For example, Anthrax is a natural occurring organism that kills animals and sickens (and even kills) humans. However, there is a HUGE difference beteen the natural occurring Anthrax and Anthrax that has been weaponized by a government for the purpose of killing and terrorizing people.
The same can be said of Bb. The fact that it has been around for eons has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was weaponized by Nazi and American Scientists at Plum Island. Did the natural form infect people at a very low rate for eons - maybe. Has Lyme EXPLODED since being weaponized by our evil and disgraceful government? YOU BET!
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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map1131
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You want to tick people off? Bring up religious or political views.
I like glm1111 signature tag. We are still stuck in the second stage of truth about lyme & co. We really should not argue over how this happened.
Let's use our focus on how to control it, fix it, or live as well as possible with it.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Keebler
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- Q: Is this a curse?
No. It's science. The lyme toxin is "similar to that of botulinum."
Because many of the symptoms of Lyme disease involve the nervous system, it was speculated that the spirochete produced a toxin that disrupted normal nerve function.
Through the use of DNA manipulations and a database of known protein toxin DNA sequences, a match was made with a selected Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) gene and a specific toxin in the database.
Protein generated from this cloned Bb gene was examined biochemically and found to have characteristics similar to that of botulinum, the toxin of Clostridium botulinum, a zinc endoproteinase.1
The toxin from Bb belongs to a family of toxic proteins known as "zinc endoproteinases" or metalloproteases, and includes the toxin from the organism causing tetanus as well as those from many other well-known infectious diseases. . . .
- Expansive article at link above.
---------------------
Different author, also see out ALL the works of this exceptional LL writer:
Cure Unknown - by Pam Weintraub -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Dogsandcats
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I agree with Pam. We could go on for days about why this happening and only to end up with hurt feelings, unkind words and dissent on the board. Very charged conversation.
Because Lyme is so misunderstood and not popular among diagnosis's, it does make it a lonely disease. That has led me to wonder what's up with me at times.
The i remember I was over stressed from work at the time I was bit, had family issues and my diet was poor. That little bug landed in fertile ground.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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Keebler
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posted
- Going back to illnesses - or illness tendencies that run in families - remember that lyme can be contracted through the mother - or the father.
And, families are usually in the same geographic area, around the same tick havens.
But, as others mention, there are "markers" or whatever you might call them. Our genes hold so much from our ancestors. That's a huge area of mystery. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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glm1111
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I think we're missing the other aspects of what is referred to as miasmas and the 7 physical & 7 spiritual causes of ill health that's on the Hanna kroeger website. Dr. K. speaks of this as well. Some interesting discussions and views.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Keebler is a thousand percent right-this is about SCIENCE. No curses, no vengeful gods, no dark forces. Jess.
Posts: 651 | From ct | Registered: Sep 2011
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AuntyLynn
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Lyme can be contracted through the Father? That's news to me!
Wholly agreed that this is about science/medicine and nothing else.
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Keebler
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- Yes, lyme can be passed to the egg through the father's sperm. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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One Tough Grandma (On Becoming a Grandmother in a Lyme-Endemic Family) - by G.S., RN, FNP-C
Excerpt:
. . . The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) maintains that there is absolutely no risk of congenitally transferring the borrelia spirochete that causes Lyme disease.
Intuitively, this is hard to believe, considering that a genetically much less sophisticated spirochete, Treponema pallidium, the causative agent of syphilis, is well known to pass from mother to child and cause potentially devastating consequences for the infant.
Borrelia bacteria have been isolated in both sperm and breast milk, and those of us who treat chronic Lyme patients have suspected and clinically observed the congenital transfer of the disease, over and over again.
The results of congenital Lyme can be mild to devastating: the bacteria may cause almost immediate, acute damage
or hide sequestered in the joints, heart, brain or other organs, to appear later in life, when least expected, causing subtle and unsuspecting problems like learning, social or developmental delays, all easily attributable to other causes. . . .
Rivendell
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posted
It may feel like it, but suffering happens to everyone. You can't become superstitious.
I used to ask myself 'why' on all levels - spiritual, emotional, philosophical, and it seems like "blame" just didn't help very much.
Just concentrate on getting well. That is most respectful thing you can do for yourself.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Yes, suffering happens to everyone. Yes, this is about science - the science that a bunch of evil government scientists (including Nazis brought from Germany after WWII) used to perfect a bio-weapon and unleash it on the American people!
It's hard to believe that our own government would do this to Americans - or is it? Just a LITTLE research will show that the US government has repeatedly unleashed bio and chemical weapons on unsuspecting Americans. Here are just a few examples:
quote:Originally posted by PatriotM: Yes, suffering happens to everyone. Yes, this is about science - the science that a bunch of evil government scientists (including Nazis brought from Germany after WWII) used to perfect a bio-weapon and unleash it on the American people!
It's hard to believe that our own government would do this to Americans - or is it? Just a LITTLE research will show that the US government has repeatedly unleashed bio and chemical weapons on unsuspecting Americans. Here are just a few examples:
Unfortunately, there are still many Americans, including some on this board, who still think that the powerful elites who run this country are good people who are looking out for the citizens, along with spreading Democracy and promoting human rights around the world. That last part is a complete joke, and anyone who still believes that has been asleep for the last 50 years.
The people who run this country don't give one damn about the ordinary American citizen, and what they are doing to the rest of the world is just as bad.
The U.S. Governemnt, including the CDC, is up to their eyeballs in the cover-up of this epidemic. I have previously posted information supporting this, and it is usually met with silence. Why that is so, I don't know. Anyone who believes anything the CDC or Government says about this illness is delusional.
When Willie Burgdorfer was interviewed for the film Under Our Skin, someone working for the government showed up and said, "I've been told that I need to supervise this interview. This comes from the highest levels. There are things that Willy can't talk about.''
When I went to see a prominent neurologist in S. Florida for Lyme treatment recommended by my very popular LLMD, we talked about the controversy surrounding this illness. He openly confided in me that he had recently ordered the Bowen Q-ribb test, and shortly afterwards 2 government agents showed up and essentially threatened him and his practice.
The government knows damn well what is going on with this illness and is doing everything possible to cover it up and harass anyone who tries to expose the truth. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, when you consider the mountain of circumstantial and direct evidence that the Government was explicitly working on weaponizing and distributing tick borne illnesses.
Posts: 233 | From ft. myers, florida | Registered: Apr 2004
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glm1111
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posted
Project MKUltra during the 50's and 60's was run by the CIA. It involved the use of many methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain function, including the administartion of drugs, especially LSD, and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.
The research was undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.
This is all documented and uncovered in 1977 by the freedom of information act. Still think there are no dark forces?
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
If anyone wonders if our benevolent government would really do something to hurt us, you need look no further than your kitchen. Turn on the faucet and poison (flouride) likely comes out. Open your refrigerator and your left-overs are probably bathing in poisonous plastic containers that contain cancer causing BPA. Open your pantry and nearly every packaged food is full of GMO (which is banned in Europe and now even Russia)!
Why are all these poisons in your kitchen? Because the globalist scum from Monsanto is running the FDA and every other government agency that "regulates" your food and water.
It's time to WAKE UP! These people are literally killing you!
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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AuntyLynn
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Keebler -
As far as I understand, of course Lyme can be passed from sperm to mother... mother is then infected and passes congenitally.
There is so little science on this that most even negate the possibility that there is mother/infant transmission.
While I have seen no evidence that Bb is actually IN sperm, it may be nurtured in the seminal fluid. Unfortunately, your ILADs link is for the home page of the site. It's an interesting question.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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Keebler
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posted
- The CDC is not about to air the truth about this nor will the IDSA. They deny the sheer existence of lyme, itself.
I have read that sperm may, indeed, pass lyme as it fertilizes the egg. If spirochetes are in sperm, it just makes sense that when a sperm makes its way into an egg that the spirochete goes along for the ride.
There is no mechanism to remove borrelia from the sperm during conception.
The ILADS site can be searched. The article above speaks to borrelia in sperm but so do many other articles. Web search: borrelia, sperm - and - borrelia, congenital.
Lyme can also damage or otherwise alter DNA in both mother & father. This can also have implications at conception.
One Tough Grandma (On Becoming a Grandmother in a Lyme-Endemic Family)
- by G.S., RN, FNP-C - a well respected LL author
Excerpt:
. . . considering that a genetically much less sophisticated spirochete, Treponema pallidium, the causative agent of syphilis, is well known to pass from mother to child and cause potentially devastating consequences for the infant.
** Borrelia bacteria have been isolated in both sperm ***
and breast milk, and those of us who treat chronic Lyme patients have suspected and clinically observed the congenital transfer of the disease, over and over again. . . .
- Full article at link. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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#3. Dr. K: . . . Borrelia has also been found in semen and other fluids which may suggest horizontal transmission is also possible. . . .
#4. Dr. B: (perhaps speaking to XMRV but then, all tick-borne or chronic stealth infections must be considered along with lyme regarding transmission to child) . . . ``Thus far, transmission via blood, semen, . . . `` -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Didn't mean to start a fight. Was just wondering. Lyme hits us in all areas - physically, emotionally, our friends and family desert us, medical community ridicules us, we are held up as crazy, we lose our jobs, bank accounts, homes, credibility, basically everything. Maybe it's not a curse, but it sure does act like one.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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map1131
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posted
I truly believe my entire family, parents, brothers & sisters and many of their(and my) offspring are infected with bartonella or like illness.
There is no way I would even try to discuss this with them. Sad, I know.
homesick, remember a day will come when you are not going to look like the crazy one. I truly believe this.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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randibear
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Patriot,'have you rearm"the harbinger"? Fascinating
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Pam, I am looking forward to that day. it all seems so hopeless.
randibear, I have heard of that book, what I have heard about it is very interesting.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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quote:Originally posted by homesick73: Didn't mean to start a fight. Was just wondering. Lyme hits us in all areas - physically, emotionally, our friends and family desert us, medical community ridicules us, we are held up as crazy, we lose our jobs, bank accounts, homes, credibility, basically everything. Maybe it's not a curse, but it sure does act like one.
I would have to disagree with some of this. For example, lyme shouldn't cause our friends to abandon us. Lyme shouldn't cause us to lose our homes and certainly doesn't cause us to lose our credibility.
Just because many of the idiots in the medical community ridicule us, doesn't mean that we are the idiots - THEY ARE THE IDIOTS!
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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posted
Patriot, in my case this is exactly what happened, it shouldn't have, but it did. I find it very puzzling. For years they told me it was fibromyalgia. MDs tx the symptoms etc. When I was diagnosed with lyme, everything changed, people's attitudes changed, all of the above that I mentioned. What is the deal with this disease? Maybe in your case things are different. For your sake I hope so. Yes, the medical community is full of idiots -- lots of them.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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I'm curious to hear why you think family and friends would change simply because the diagnosis changed? I can certainly understand traditional doctors having a change of attitude, considering that they're lucky to successfully treat anything more complicated than a simple broken arm. However, I don't understand family and friends abandoning you. Do you think the way you acted changed when you found out you had Lyme? What's your opinion?
Posts: 177 | From Ohio | Registered: Aug 2012
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lax mom
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posted
homesick: the worst is when Dr's misdiagnose these illnesses as psychiatric and label you as a hypochondriac.
I had a psychiatrist tell me that if anyone could cause themself to have a fever...I could.
posted
Patriot, I just don't know. If I could answer your question, then I would know the answer to mine. It's just something that really bothers me. In my case, it's the lyme that bothers people.
lax mom, wow, that's harsh (and stupid), was he really serious? You could give yourself a fever? I think the psychiatrist needs a psychiatrist.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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Rivendell
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posted
I very much believe that Lyme has been enhanced as a bioweapon and the government and/or corporations experiment on us from time to time. And yes this is evil.
Just don't want to believe in curses as that word implies that we have no power over it.
When people don't believe you, tell them to watch the Dr. Phil episode about Lyme. After all, he's always telling people to "get real" and he believes this "is real".
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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Dogsandcats
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posted
The minute I was diagnosed with Lyme, the family (except my sister) went on the web and found every article claiming Lyme a farce. They believed I was sick, but not with Lyme. It was a long haul...
Now that I have fibromyalgia and arthritis, all is well. I will still have Lyme to deal with, but that will be in my time when I am ready to go back at it. I have other physical problems at this moment that are problematic and need my attention.
I think my family cared in their strange way as they didn't want me treated by quacks. But it was difficult. no matter what I showed them, they had more to show me.
My regular physicians gasped when they saw the abx I was on. Tried to educate them, but geez, they (some....)are the only ones who know everything -
Friends went by the wayside when it went on to long for them to understand. On the West Coast Lyme is not as common. Some thought I was contagious. I was blessed with a few faithful and that turned out to be better than 20.
Sorry - this hit a nerve with me. I have learned so much being ill. Up at the top - don't judge other people's illness and pain. Not that I did that, but I could have been more compassionate.
I am not criticizing anyone's posts - so don't spring back. Just my own journey.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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Rivendell
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Dogsandcats, my experiences with family and friends have been very similar. It is heart breaking, but boy did I learn a lot.
Mostly, that people who are chronically ill are too easily dismissed as worthless.
That is why I keep saying that compassion is so needed. People are much too cold and judgemental.
Posts: 1358 | From Midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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AuntyLynn
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OK Keebler -
I see you're missing my point.
But I guess it's moot.
Doesn't really matter if the Bb is in the ACTUAL SPERM CELL, as long as it's "in semen."
Just the College Genetics Student in me.
Posts: 1432 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jan 2012
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posted
Rivendell, cold and judgemental, yes, exactly! I was practically black-balled by my church. I have now found a better one, so believe that it turned out for the best. It still hurts when people who were my friends won't even talk to me.
dogs and cats, they might be so ignorant as to believe we are contagious. That would explain a lot.
-------------------- "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler Posts: 111 | From East of Eden | Registered: Mar 2012
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