Topic: Hope our CT friends from UOS are okay (school shooting tragedy in Newtown, CT)
AuntyLynn
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PaulieinCT -
Just wondering ... is there soem way the police can disarm him, since they know he is "unstable?"
We had a case here a few years ago, where a local Police Chief fired off a couple of rounds from the roof of a local health club, on a "lark." He was going through a nasty divorce - and the Divorce Judge ruled that his weapons should be confiscated.
Townspeople were outraged! Imagine a Chief of Police who was not allowed to carry a weapon? Women were espeially upset, because the guy was proven to be "irresponsible" with firearms, and was accused of raping his estranged wife. They picketed the Town Council meetings demanding his resignation.
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I believe that Lyme can and does cause some serious mental illness. My question is,(1) how do we keep guns away from people that are so mentally unstable??? (2) How do we get guns away from these people? This is an accident waiting to happen. I guess the good news is that he never leaves the house.
Gael
There is a law in CT that the State Police can remove guns from a person if a doctor certifies that the person is mentally ill and dangerous. The problem is, you need to get that person to a psychiatrist, and my cousin refuses to go.
What will probably happen in my cousin's case, is that there will be some kind of confrontation where he will go berserk and the police can then involuntarily bring him to a psych facility. The facility can keep him confined if they can show he is a danger either to himself or others.
Then the State police will take his guns.
Hopefully, this will all happen without any loss of life.
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I just heard on the news that the Newtown school shooter's mother...........had MS.
What does that tell you?
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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randibear
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i disagree. most hunters i know and people who have guns, do not use them.
our friends in wyoming who have a ranch, have guns. they rarely use them.
most of our friends who shoot, do so at a range or hunting.
of course, they are middle aged, prior military, or professional people.
none of them, i truly believe, would ever hurt another person. but they would defend their families if they had to.
not everyone who has a gun is a nut case.
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AuntyLynn
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randibear -
I was NOT insinuating that if you "use" a gun you are a nut case! You use them in target practice, skeet shooting, hunting - whatever - but you do intend to use them in some way when you seek to own them!
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randibear
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well yes you use them, but not against another person.
but there gun owners who collect some that you do not "use". say for instance sharpes original 1840 or so. these are the original buffalo guns owned by hunters during the 1800's. very expensive. collectors would not dare take them out and treat them like regular guns. they are strictly showpieces.
and anybody who uses a gun like this is a nut case. hey, i don't support semi or full auto either but people are going to get them, hook or crook, they will.
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AuntyLynn
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MADDOG
And 16 in Colorado, and a Congresswoman maimed, and a college campus strafed ...
Are you calling gun control supporters traitors? Just because we're trying to figure how to keep guns from the hands of NUTS?
I am not UNamerican because I don't believe in policing the world, or in starting illegal wars. I want my country to be BETTER than that!
I want my country to LIVE UP to its ideals! Not become just another colonial power whose theivery is funded by my taxes!
Guns are not an extension of patriotism - nor are they an extension of manhood! And those who think they are, might be a part of this problem.
At least the NRA has the good sense to keep out of this argument right now.
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AuntyLynn
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MAYAN CALENDAR DISCOVERY SUGGESTS WORLD MIGHT NOT END IN 2012 Christian Science Monitor, May 11, 2012
glm1111
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I don't think the argument is that no one has the right to bear arms. The argument is that semi automatic high powered guns should not be part of anyones arsenal.
Hopefully the Mayan calender is referring to a shift in consciousness, and NOT the end of the world. Maybe the shift will leave the lower vibrational entities behind in a different dimension. I actually read that somewhere.
Just listening to Dr. Oz on Piers Morgan. He is commenting about their is a difference in the brains of people committing these kinds of crimes, that torture animals etc and have no empathy.
They showed a picture of a brain scan where there was an area of the brain the controls empathy. A large area was in a different color to depict this. These individuals lack this part of the brain. So it's not always pathogenic.
Gael
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beaches
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Oh God, here we go again with the end-of-world crap. No one knows when the world will end. I for one, pay no attention to this stuff. When it ends, it ends and no one will have advance notice as far as I'm concerned. Too many times since just prior to the year 2000, predictions were made about the world ending and too many people got themselves worked up in a tizzy over nothing. It's 2012 and we're all still here to talk about it. And I predict we'll still be here in 2013!
Anyway, MADDOG, I couldn't disagree with you more. There is no good reason at all for the populace to "own the exact same weapons as the police and the army."
Do you honestly believe for a minute that you and other citizens exercising the "right to bear arms" per the second amendment could in any way maintain a "balance" amongst the three branches of government? Do you really believe that carrying semis on your person every day will prevent "tyranny?"
When you go to the pharmacy or the supermarket or the mall, do you notify your neighbors that they should don their bullet-proof vests and load up their semis just in case? Hey, let's meet at Dunkin Donuts for a cup of joe--don't forget to prepare for the worst. Who can live that way? Who would want to?
I wonder what our forebears would think of this train of thought and life in America today where we have witnessed far too many times the awful loss of life at the hands of people exercising their second amendment rights. Certainly, our forefathers could never have imagined the carnage we have witnessed.
I am not saying people should not have guns. If you feel the need to protect your home and family, by all means you are within your rights to legally own and operate a firearm, provided you have a permit. If you are a sportsman/hunter, by all means, you are within your rights to to legally own and operate a firearm, provided you have a permit. This to me is what the second amendment is about.
There is NO REASON AT ALL for ANYONE other than law enforcement/military personnel to be in the possession of semi-automatic firearms. PERIOD.
And I completely agree with AuntyLynn's statement:
Pass Federal Restrictions on purchase - require background checks and waiting periods in EVERY STATE! Abolish "gun shows" and prosecute those who sell firearms from the trunks of cars.
MADDOG, I do not think that this awful tragedy in any way could lead to the end of the constitution, bill of rights and our great nation.
I am acutely aware of the hundreds of thousands who gave their lives on behalf of our great nation, as I have many veterans in my family, going back to the Revolutionary War.
I agree that this man's mother should have NEVER exposed him to weapons, much less have taken him to shooting ranges.
As a mother myself, all I can say is that she must not have realized that her allowing her son access to weapons and target practice would ultimately result in her own demise, along with so many innocent people, including 20 precious little kids.
It's hard to believe no matter how you look at it. I see this kid on the news and when I look at him, all I think of is that he must have been teased and bullied for years and years.
And kids these days are absolutely brutal. There was a girl on the news recently. Poor kid was 11 or 12. Her belly was swollen. What did the mean biotches say? And even boys these days are extraordinarily brutal in their comments. She must be pregnant!! Meanwhile, the poor thing had a growth in her abdomen. But she had to endure so many rude and snide comments due to her medical condition.
But getting back to this young man who committed this unspeakable act of violence and brutality against little kids and their teachers...
I do believe he was mentally ill. I do believe his mother had a hard time handling him. I believe his mother showed poor judgement in teaching him about firearms and taking him to the shooting range.
I know for a fact that there is NOWHERE for a parent of a mentally-challenged child to turn once they age-out of the school system. I believe this is a huge problem in our society.
There are grown men and women who have some sort of mental handicap and due to logistics and finances have no choice but to live with their parent(s).
Our society, for the most part, shuns individuals who are mentally handicapped. As a result, we have a huge number of young people who have no social outlet, no friends, no activities, nowhere to be or go other than at home with their parent(s). And I presume their parents are frustrated by this situation and really don't have anywhere to turn themselves.
This young man comes from a financially secure environment by all accounts. If his parents, who had the means to help him, were ultimately unable to do so because of whatever obstacle, what does that tell us about the likelihood of the rest of us being able to help kids like him? It tells me it's next to impossible to do so, but still possible.
Once again, too many questions and too few answers.
Thoughts and prayers going out to Newtown, CT this evening.
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Tincup
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Like many I watched in horror as this unthinkable event started to come to light on the news.
God bless the children, families and adults whose lives were forever changed. There are no words to express the depth of the grief and overwhelming sadness felt by so many, including myself. It is so horrifying I can not even think about it as it relates to the people involved, nor can I talk about it.
Once I heard where this had taken place I immediately called our volunteer advocates in the CT to try to comfort them, and in turn be comforted.
When I went back to the news they were starting to blame guns for this tragedy, and then sure enough here comes huff and puff on the air talking about lobbying for more strict gun control laws. That made me sick.
I turned off the TV and have not watched it since. I knew, just didn't know how long it would take, that guns would be blamed and people would be distracted from dealing with the real issues.
The guns in this case were registered and legal in a state that has more stringent gun control laws than most. They were used by a person who would have used another weapon had the guns not been accessible.
The laws did nothing to prevent this tragedy from happening. They were useless, just like a protection order is when used to try to keep someone from hurting another person. As even the police say, a piece of paper (restraining order) won't stop a bullet or a knife blade.
Guns generally REDUCE crime when allowed to be carried openly and when not highly regulated or restricted, as in the case of, for example, the state of Virginia where crime was reduced by over 80% when the laws allowed "open carry". Knowing your neighbors and the strangers you meet MAY be carrying a gun will prevent most people from going nuts on another person or committing a crime against them.
Passing more gun laws will not stop this type of tragedy from recurring. It will allow guns to remain in the hands of criminals and take them away from more responsible citizens. Had the adults in this particular case (and other cases like it) been armed and properly trained to use a gun this might have come out differently.
For example, if a police officer were on the scene when this first started chances are it wouldn't have gone this far.
I am saddened to see so much attention being placed on a gun by the media rather than seeing people (politicians especially) seriously addressing the real source of the problem. Like it or not, guns are here to stay, as is shown to be the case in the figures below.
"A 2007 Small Arms Survey estimates there are 88.7 guns per 100 Americans (#1 in the world for guns per capita)"
"A 2010 estimate from the NRA states "Privately owned firearms in the U.S.: Approaching 300 million, including nearly 100 million handguns. The number of firearms rises over 4 million annually."
In my opinion, if you don't own a gun, you should get one and be trained and ready to use it to protect yourself and your family BEFORE something bad happens.
Again, God bless those who suffered as a result of this horrendous event. May your heart be healed.
AuntyLynn
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Beaches -
LOL! I'm definitely WITH you on the "end of the world" crap! (I hope you got that by my posting the Christian Science Monitor article.)
Sensationalists and charlatans have been touting their "supernatural knowledge" to stir people up for thousands of years. It's pure superstition.
Moreover, if you're a Christian you know that our Lord told us to "put not your faith in soothsayers" (fortunetellers). Yet "fundamentalists" can be among the worst offenders, IMHO! Look at the Westboro group, for example - or the rapture crowd. But hey, it's a free country, and to each his/her own.
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BTW, please report any abusive or offensive posts.
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AuntyLynn
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Tincup -
Let me get this straight... we have 300 Mil guns in private homes already - amounting to 87.7 guns per 100 Americans. So according to your theory, practically every home in America IS armed already ...
So your idea that everyone should be armed and trained to use a gun would seem to have been fulfilled.
YET we have had several Mall shootings, the theatre massacre and now the Newtown attacks, just in the past year!
Logically, this would indicate that your theory that everyone should be armed so as to provide "protection" is in direct opposition to the reality.
In this case, a mother actually ARMED her mentally deficient son, by having taken the EXACT POSITION that you propose! (She was said to have been a "prepper." I am a "prepper" but I'm on the fence about arms. I think you can win more hearts with butter than guns, in the event of an emergency. And even a citizen army marches on its stomach!)
I agree with BEACHES on this one - in that parents who are trying to raise and protect their debilitated children are NOT getting enough support from our society when they become adults! You can mainstream autistic or retarded children in public schools, which I think is a great idea, but when they turn 18, government help is practically non-existent.
We once had massive mental institutions in this country. A Supreme Court decision ruling that these folks have a right to live in a "home like" setting changed all that under the Reagan Administration. Supervised "group homes" are now the norm - but what do we do with young adults who are potentially violent? Except give them antipsychotic DRUGS that can actually MAKE them suicidal? (Many say this is why we are seeing so many suicides in our war vets!)
This is as much a mental health issue as it is a gun control issue. And with autism numbers exploding, we are likely to see many more of these incidents ... without providing more support to families.
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AuntyLynn
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So what you're saying is that psychiatrists are right, when they say that firearms are a subliminal extention of masculine ego?
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glm1111
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AuntyLynn & MADDOGG
Keebler posted a link to an article about the connection to masculinity in the thread I posted in General about the gun control petition.
From the beginning and not irregardless of infections and other brain maladys, I felt that ego and lack of self esteem play a big role in these shootings.
Gael
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glm1111
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Well, I just checked and the post was removed. Guess it was not popular with the people that don't favor gun control and there were complaints. Anyway, maybe Keebler will see this and post that link again.
Gael
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AuntyLynn
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You know, lots of kids suffer from bullying in school. I'm glad to see that schools are starting to get wise to the damage it causes.
Kids can be unbelievably cruel. But most who are bullied don't go back to class with a semi-automatic.
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glm1111
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MADDOGG! That kind of thinking is exactly why we need gun control. Fragile egos out of control kill people. Sad
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randibear
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gun control is fine for semi and full auto.
hunters do not use these. and small firearms such as 38 or 45's are what many women use to defend themselves.
some people are saying we should give up all firearms and i'm against that. to do that would put us into a situation where the government is then controlling everyone. not something i want to see happen.
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randibear
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i think the mother is lot of the blame here. she knew her son was mentally ill, apparently she was at least trying to have him transferred to a facility, which he found out about.
she should have done this long ago. also, taking him to a gun range...OMG!! what was she thinking? bonding?? she was completely clueless..
let's put the blame where it belongs, on the parent here, in this situation.
i know many teachers and they say they all have encountered parents who refuse to say or do anything regarding their precious child, even when it's bullying like mad says, or showing extreme signs of mental illness.
this let's take all guns, is extreme. it's the semi and full auto, and multiple clips, that they should be addressing.
and let's look at the nut in michigan who in 1927 used dynamite to bomb a school, killing many children. this man lost his board election. nobody thought he would do it either. but dynamite?
now we just have to prevent somebody else who's going to say "oh i can do more"...that's the person we should be looking out for.
penalizing legal gun owners and those who hunt is not the answer. going after the nra is not the answer.
identifying those individuals who will do this thing is the answer.
p.s.s i have a friend who took her small children, ages, 11 and 12, to see that movie, umm, what is it, hunter games, or something like that. i was going "wth?". i amend my statements to add that hollywood bears some of the responsiblity here.
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RDaywillcome
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Most favor gun control for hunting and majority of us have guns.
A lot of people who need help though, don't think they do and don't seek it. How do you reach that population?
The school in CT was locked and you need to be buzzed in so I'm not sure what else one could do other than have police patrol our schools on a daily basis.
The news is still saying that there was an altercation with some of the staff the day before and a few of them were killed but one survived and they are speaking with her now.
It's tragic it no matter what. There will now be a committee of many people to decide on how to not let this happen again.
Not just on gun regulations but reaching out to those with mental health and security and better training for school employees.
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RDaywillcome
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Why do my post keep getting removed?
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RDaywillcome
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Randi .. I think people are concerned that once we let them do ANY gun control, then we are going down a precipitous path. They could just take control of ALL guns.
So we really need to watch the language of possible legislation on this.
I agree that we don't need semi's, etc.
- Something that came to my mind yesterday. I grew up in Houston and back in the late 50's or early 60's, some idiot placed a bomb in a briefcase and killed a number of elem school children there. (can't remember how many, but TOO MANY)
About a week or maybe even days later, our school received a bomb threat. The school told all of us kids to run home!! Can you imagine!? They would never do that these days!!
I remember running in a totally different direction than I usually would go to walk home. I guess due to where my class was located. Anyway, I suppose my dad was still home because I never had a key. I don't remember not being able to get into my house.
We would have bomb scares later in high school but it was usually some stupid kid wanting to get out of school early!
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quote:Originally posted by glm1111: Well, I just checked and the post was removed. Guess it was not popular with the people that don't favor gun control and there were complaints. Anyway, maybe Keebler will see this and post that link again.
- It was removed by moderators because it was too political. This thread could go South too. Stay on track.
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RDaywillcome
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You bad person!! Being "naughty" will not result in getting gifts from Santa!!
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RDaywillcome
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Lymetoo, thank you but there is still one on here that is not only political but very disrespectful and that one should be removed.
We talk about hate, well why can't people learn to all get along and stop being paranoid about everything.
They only want to regulate military assault weapons. Why would a person need a weapon like that for anything other than for what it's supposed to be used for?
Is there restrictions on I.E.D.'s or hand grenades?
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RDaywillcome
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glm, I didn't even get to see it so I don't know what it's all about. Most I know aren't against guns just military assault weapons that are meant for JUST that.
I hope it gets posted again so I can read it.
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AuntyLynn
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Thanks glm1111 -
I agree.
The bigger the weapon, the smaller the gun.
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RDaywillcome
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glm1111
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RDay... sent you a pm. It was about gun control. I agree, most people including myself are just against the semi automatics.
Gael
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AuntyLynn
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Pocono Lyme
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Thought I'd share this. I got it as an email.
TWAS' 11 DAYS BEFORE CHRISTMAS IN CONNECTICUT
Twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38 when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air. They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
They were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say. They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"Where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse. "This is heaven." declared a small boy. "we're spending Christmas at God's house."
When what to their wondering eyes did appear, but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same. Then He opened His arms and He called them by name
and in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring. Those children all flew into the arms of their King
and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face and as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad." Then He looked down on earth, the world far below
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!" "May this country be delivered from the hands of fools"
"I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!" Then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"Come now my children, let me show you around." excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran
all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can
and i heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
"in the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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glm1111
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Beautifull. Did you write this Pocono?
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AuntyLynn
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Touching.
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beaches
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Pocono Lyme, thank you for sharing that.
I will go out on a limb here and say that as a Catholic person, I could never presume to know or imagine what Heaven is like, although your description is wonderful.
There was at least one Jewish child who perished on that very tragic day. As a Catholic, I do not know what a Jewish family would expect when a loved one reaches Heaven.
I respectfully request that you somehow try to incorporate what a Jewish family would be enduring and what they'd expect when a loved one entered heaven's gate.
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Pocono Lyme
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I thought it was beautiful also. I didn't write it. It was an email I received and wanted to share.
beaches, I would think Heaven will be the same for all believers keeping in mind that the Jews are God's chosen people. I thank God for extending His Word to Gentiles.
Since God created earth and all of its beauty in six days, one can only imagine the beauty of Heaven.
-------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:9-11
9 But he said to me, �My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.� Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ�s power may rest on me. Posts: 1445 | From Poconos, PA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Please remember folks that many on this forum are not Christian.
As a non-Christian, I THANK YOU!
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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glm1111
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Member # 16556
posted
Maybe it's me, but I just never felt heaven was divided by any religion and that what is waiting for us on the other side was "Unconditional Love" no matter what religion we practiced here on earth.
I choose to believe that ALL of the children regardless of their parents religious beliefs were met with and surrounded by pure LOVE and were all together.
I am not christian either, but I do believe Pocono had good intentions when posting that message, and not meant to insult anyone.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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beaches
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38251
posted
Oh absolutely, no doubt Pocono had the best of intentions by posting that. And I don't think for a minute that that post was any way insulting to anyone.
And I too believe that those precious children were all welcomed into Heaven together and surrounded by pure love.
As a Catholic, I just thought those who were not Christian would not be able to relate to Jesus.
Pocono, it's funny that you said the Jews are the chosen people. That's how I was taught too.
I was also taught that heaven was indescribably beautiful and like nothing we could ever imagine here on earth.
May all those who were lost on that awful day rest in peace and may all those precious kids be having some heavenly fun. I hope and pray their families can somehow find healing.
Posts: 1885 | From here | Registered: Jul 2012
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Thanks, Paulie - I myself am a naturalist, meaning I think life is natural, based in nature. I mourn what happened to these children, their teachers, their parents, their community, and how everyone has been suffering because of it.
I think we are all similar in our basic humanity - we want to live, to love, to thrive, to have healthy and happy communities.
The Newtown tragedy has deepened everyone here - it's like everyone stopped in their tracks last Friday to take it in. I think more of us will be working for a better world after this.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
Not only auto accidents, Maddog, but also constant shootings, including where I live and across the bay in Oakland, with innocent people caught in the crossfire often.
Posts: 13171 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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MADDOG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18
posted
I hope you belive your last remark!
I will now have fun letting you scratch your head and wonder?????
Were I went.
But please do enjoy this websight about a distant cousin of mine.
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