lax mom
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posted
Oh my. One of the mdjunction posters wrote:
"Apparently Dr. H got into a bit of heated match with an IDSA doctor and we may see that portion if they don't cut it out. I'll have my popcorn ready."
I don't have TV anymore. I just use the internet and Netflix. Is there any way to watch it online?
"Apparently Dr. H got into a bit of heated match with an IDSA doctor and we may see that portion if they don't cut it out. I'll have my popcorn ready."
- Oh boy! I hope Dr H won!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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kam
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posted
Thanks for posting this.
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kam
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posted
Katie asked if you have lyme disease or know someone with lyme disease on her FB page.
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hiker53
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What network and what time? I'd like to tape it.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8878 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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lax mom
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posted
quote:Originally posted by hiker53: What network and what time? I'd like to tape it.
lax mom
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posted
Rivendell: it's on TV like you said. I was just saying people who don't get the Katie show in their town could catch clips on youtube, probably not the whole show though.
posted
I am at work! I would love to see it too. I wish someone could tape it and then put it on here for everyone to watch!
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steve1906
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posted
Katie - Boston, MA October 09 (Ch 5 at 3pm)(WCVB)
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
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-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Ann-OH
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posted
If you Twitter, this is from the Katie Couric show site:
map1131
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posted
lax, I agree. I've got my box of tissues ready. I hope Dr H can make his points in time allowed.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Abxnomore
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posted
I saw it. Halperin is enough to make one sick but they have to air both sides of the story. Dr. H. presented his case well and there were two of his patients talking about their illness. Katie Couric did a good job asking the right questions.
The fact that this is being aired to the general public is a big win for the lyme community and the public.
posted
I wish Katie had asked the woman on stage how she felt about what Dr Halperin said!!
She asked DR H.. which was very important. But I wish she'd had time to ask the patient as well!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ellen101
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posted
That was it??? There was not a lot of air time devoted to it. Personally I wasn't impressed.
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Abxnomore
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posted
True, but it was a short segment. Most importantly it will be viewed by a large audience and maybe she'll touch on it again.
Good on Katie Couric. Remember how hard we tried to get Oprah to do a show on Lyme Disease and how she dissed us.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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Dekrator48
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posted
I'm thankful that Dr H (LLMD) got the last word.
I think he did a good job in the short time he had to speak.
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Ellen101: That was it??? There was not a lot of air time devoted to it. Personally I wasn't impressed.
Couldn't agree with you more, needs to be a longer discussion in order to make somewhat of a dent!
Posts: 267 | From MI | Registered: Oct 2011
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Lymetoo I understand that part. There's no video footage of the debate on the website.
I just made another thread hinting to the fact that they were going to show more about the discussion on the show and you close my thread?
Don't you think that's kind of peculiar?
quote:Originally posted by lax mom:
"Apparently Dr. H got into a bit of heated match with an IDSA doctor and we may see that portion if they don't cut it out. I'll have my popcorn ready."
Maybe they did show everything, but I specifically remember the words "coming up" on the show!!!! And nothing more aired about Lyme and before you know Harry Potter was waving his wand around and Couric was hauking products at us...
Anyways don't want to get in heated match, just that thought there's more to this...
Got to go get my cardio in Posts: 267 | From MI | Registered: Oct 2011
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CherylSue
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Dr. R.H. did a good job, but I think Dateline or 60 Minutes should do an intensive documentary.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by CherylSue: Dr. R.H. did a good job, but I think Dateline or 60 Minutes should do an intensive documentary.
Yeah Dr. H did do a great job, maybe all this can lead up to a nice documentary on 60 minutes or Dateline. Would be nice!!!
Posts: 267 | From MI | Registered: Oct 2011
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Catgirl
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posted
I was so disappointed in Katie with her hand on her jaw (indication of disbelief) the whole time she listened to the first patient.
RH is another clueless clone. Like Doc H said, there are many scientific studies that pretty much prove current standards are antiquated and flat out wrong. Unfortunately, closed minds can't or won't see it.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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lightfoot
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posted
IMO there was so much misinformation in the beginning that it overpowered anything else that followed. Dr H was good considering what he had to follow......he had so little time to state his case compared to the beginning of the segment.
I agree, something in depth is what is called for. I have to wonder if this piece realy accomplished anything as far as education.
-------------------- Healing Smiles.....lightfoot Posts: 7228 | From CO | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by lightfoot: IMO there was so much misinformation in the beginning that it overpowered anything else that followed. Dr H was good considering what he had to follow......he had so little time to state his case compared to the beginning of the segment.
I agree, something in depth is what is called for. I have to wonder if this piece realy accomplished anything as far as education.
agree!
And how about the fact that every time the chronic side is brought up on TV they're still debating on whether or not it's real!
Aren't we past that point, it's 2013!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think Couric did try to explain it's real, but I really think she shouldn't even be going down that road. Just like the directors didn't go down the road in "Under Our Skin" doc about lyme patients having mental issues with the disease. Because when the "exist topic" topic are brought up, people always think there is a possibility of it being fake and psychosomatic.
Truth is most people don't now still and this is what we're tangling with. The government has done a great job of misinformation and disinformation to keep this disease covered up plain and simple.
We need a whole 1 or 2 hour show on the topic at least or we're not going to get anywhere.
Most people my state don't have a clue about the disease!!!
Posts: 267 | From MI | Registered: Oct 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- One sad component of this program is that Katie has apparently stopped being a real investigative journalist. She should have made sure that all errors were corrected before moving on.
And, it seems she did not do much research on this. We are supposed to be satisfied because she did a reasonably adequate job for a fluff interviewer -- when we really needed someone with her full journalistic capabilities (which she apparently left behind).
And, not everyone "does" chat forums or twitter.
It's nice that she is providing a forum on her website for comments and continuing "discussion" but it really does let the investigative reporters off the hook to just toss it out there and not come back with the kind of hard hitting analysis that she frequently displayed in her "previous" life.
She would have never let errors from those being interviewed just slide before. Ever. It seems she was not as well educated as required for such a topic. I wish she would study it in depth and come back with a panel of ILADS doctors who would address the IDSA fallacies. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Abxnomore
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posted
The after programming discussion is going on here. This is a different discussion than the one that was going on before the show aired:
kam
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posted
Good idea about Date line or 60 min. I usually don't watch either one of them but it would be worth having an hour on the topic...well maybe 30 min with all the commercials. Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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kam
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posted
What is the title of Dr. H's book again??
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Keebler
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posted
- I'm holding out for Frontline but they did such a horrible job with a program about autism and the additives in vaccines. Totally discounted the additives.
I'm pretty sure any major network could not wrap their head around lyme or give reporters what they truly need with time and access - or allow truth to be told. key points.
But after that autism program that even PBS Frontline dropped the ball on, I have my concerns
As it is, the networks now how doctors on their staff to cover medical reports and, often, they only touch on the briefest details, missing some over what I used to think was the best.
Maybe, though, as one reporter after another starts reporting even what pieces they can, maybe things will come to light. -
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CherylSue
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posted
I love this post on Katie's site from someone in New Jersey. It says it all about today's show. Here it is:
"The choice of Dr. Halpern was interesting. I know so many people who went to him once and never went back. They moved on to actual lyme literate doctors who didn't just tell them they didn't have lyme and then do nothing about their symptoms. The literate doctors they saw actually treated their symptoms and those people showed improvement. Dr. Halpern was never once put on the spot regarding if it wasn't chronic lyme then what was it. He never had to acknowledge why these people got better using protocols such as Dr. Horowitz's when he didn't even have an idea what was wrong with them or how to treat them. It is very sad but so much of what he said was not factual.
Starting a dialogue is a good thing but more stories from actual patients who had been sick for awhile would have emphasized how real this is for not hundreds of thousands but the actual millions who are fighting these horrible infections. Yes infections because Dr. H* LLMD was correct about the co infections and I have never once seen any infectious disease dr. who tested for anything except lyme."
lpkayak
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posted
cherylsue-me too..good find
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ellen101
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Catgirl: I was so disappointed in Katie with her hand on her jaw (indication of disbelief) the whole time she listened to the first patient.
RH is another clueless clone. Like Doc H said, there are many scientific studies that pretty much prove current standards are antiquated and flat out wrong. Unfortunately, closed minds can't or won't see it.
Yes, by Katie's body language I got the sense she really wasn't buying into the whole chronic Lyme thing.
Posts: 1748 | From United States | Registered: Dec 2011
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droid1226
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posted
One of the two girls featured was useless. Kelly, the first one was fine. But the other had a tingling extremity and groin pain and Horowitz got her better. Hardly a typical chronic lyme patient.
It was very revealing though as to how little headway we've made. None, if any. The IDSA guy says he uses "objective facts" when in fact that is what Horowitz uses.
When IDSA guy says "Any ID dr. will test for these co-infections" he's literally killing people. Because that sentence instills trust in those drs. Therefor the patient doesn't seek further answers. The lyme invades entire body while patient is duped by a lying, misleading system.
Harry Potter did more for us lyme patients today and he did nothing.
Dr. H. actually talked at a regular-person rate - not his peppy "auctioneer" rate he sometimes has to use to fit all of his information into the allotted time! HA! Joke, joke!
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Kudzuslipper
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Don't hold out for FRONTLINE Keebler! I love FRONTLINE. But medical shows aren't their forte until its been solved. And then they do a very fair, emotive retelling of a long historical drama like they did with aids... But early on or still in controversy they usually come out on the side of the CDC and NIH and make the sick people look misguided. Look for a show in a few weeks on drug resistant bacteria On FL.
I wish I could watch Katie /dr. H. online. I missed it. The beauty of her doing it pros and cons is that it means the masses are interested in it and want to hear both sides even fluffy! These shows aren't for people on here they are for everyone else. It does mean the discussion is now more mainstream daily.
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droid1226
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Kudz. It wasn't presented like that. The show opened with Katie briefly explaining the background of lyme. Then Halperin opened with all his "facts"....literally, every one was wrong.....
-95% of lyme is on eastern seaboard between New England and virginia.
-Any ID dr tests for all the co infections.
-When lyme enters the CNS, you may need IV for up to 4 weeks.
-The double blind studies all showed ZERO improvement with antibiotics longer than 4 weeks.
-Everyone gets a bullseye, just some don't notice because it's on their back or butt.
-The tick must be attached for 48-72 hrs to transmit disease.
These were "facts" presented about lyme disease along with where it was discovered and when. Then other facts about the black legged deer tick...That were all true.
Then they went to commercial and Katie came back and said "next we are going to talk to a patient and a dr who claim that lyme can be chronic" after that it was Dr H* dodging bullets and he had less than a quarter of the time to talk than Halperin.
lpkayak
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posted
I remember it exactly as droid said
It wasnt good at all for the masses
Having the conversation could be good...but there has to be a place where both sides are heard equally
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ellen101
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posted
quote:Originally posted by droid1226: One of the two girls featured was useless. Kelly, the first one was fine. But the other had a tingling extremity and groin pain and Horowitz got her better. Hardly a typical chronic lyme patient.
Why was this useless?
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Abxnomore
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The show has generated 2,017 comments so far on her website. There's something to be said for that and we should keep the conversation going.
The place to voice your discontentment about the coverage is on the post -coverage link. There are 829 comments so far:
map1131
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posted
droid, right! All out and out lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Kudzuslipper
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Droid, I see what your saying after watching those clips. But I still think it will get people talking who wouldn't be.
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Abxnomore
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Of course, it will. Look at the links above, there are thousands of comments there.
Sure we would all like to have a factual airing of the issues, but honestly how much could one really expect from the net work news knowing that the IDSA still holds all the strings.
She has a wide audience. Think positive that so many viewed the piece.
We can still make our voices hear and voice our disappointment directly to her on her site at the links above. Ask for her to air another more in depth piece on the all of the issues. It can't hurt.
Many have already done so.
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map1131
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posted
I just went back and watched it again. Dr H didn't get to make points during Dr Duck's points about lyme. But Duck was allowed to respond to Dr H points????????
It was really unfair interviewing. I guess I shouldn't expect anymore than what we got. I just wish I could learn not to take all this so personal.
It truly goes to my heart and weighs on me. Every month at our lyme support meetings of which I'm a co-founder, I feel the heartache as 2-3 new members tell their story about going against the medical establishment and how it's effecting their lives.
It effects my health, because I can't let it roll off of me. I take it all personally. I guess I'm not done grieving for myself and how it took so much from me. Therefore I'm grieving for others.
So much went to cutting room floor. I would bet the second woman went to Dr H with many more sx than just a sore groin.
Listing all our sx from head to toe is very hard to anyone to accept.....except a lyme doc that's heard the same things over and over again. Not exactly something people would make up.
Oh well Our day will come. This I know.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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linky123
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posted
I'll take it.
Even though the IDSA guy misrepresented the facts, I think the exposure was a good thing.
Dr H was very well spoken, even tho' he didn't have an opportunity to refute everything. He certainly didn't come across as a quack.
The more people hear about this, the better. And like someone said above, this could possibly lead to something with more substance.
I also thought the first lyme patient's story was very compelling.
-------------------- 'Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.' Matthew 11:28 Posts: 2607 | From Hooterville | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
abxnomore -- I would like to know if the comments are being moderated. I posted something to one of the threads and even printed it out proving my comment was there and 5 minutes later it had disappeared.
Also the numbers of comments keeps jumping up and down -- not just a couple of numbers -- but by hundreds.
I just checked and it is now showing 915 and 1219 comments on the 2 threads.
I hope someone out there in the lyme world is capturing the comment threads so they don't disappear in a week or so like frequently happens with tickborne newspaper articles that get lots of comments.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
There are actually a total of 5 video clips from the show. If you click on any of the links posted by OptiMisTick you should be able to view all 5 video clips.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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bcb1200
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posted
Personally, I thought Dr. H didn't do a good job at all. He came across as if he was mainly trying to sell is book as he constantly referenced it.
It would have been better if he just focused on his approach to treating lyme, how the IDSA is wrong (cite other research) and his results.
Plugging the book constantly cheapened his value to the discussion.
posted
That's true, bcb. He should have mentioned it once.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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droid1226
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posted
Ellen, because that's hardly the typical chronic lyme patient. It's a little diminishing to the entire disease to have a patient with groin pain and tingling, then state that Dr. H "cured her of that".
Kelly was great.
Dr. H was not his typical self.
Dr. H was our best shot at speaking up for ILADS and speaking out against the IDSA.
He didn't do that. He wasn't on his game, maybe it was terribly edited(seemed it was-a whole segment was left out), maybe the lights were too bright, or maybe he just wanted to sell his book....Idk. He wasn't the same fast speaking, genius that we've seen in person or at a podium.
It was bad all around. We need an unbiased platform.
It may have gotten the conversation going, but it gave a lot of misinformation to millions....so I'd rather Katie have just done a show about something she's good at, like a monkey riding a dog or a skiing squirrel.
lax mom
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posted
I think he kept mentioning his book so that people would buy it and get the whole story.
It's not like he's going to get rich on a $17.99 book. I think it's a bargain for a hardcover with over 500 pgs. I just hope it's not 500 pgs of confusion (like Dr. S the mold guy's books).
posted
Agree, Droid, Halpern lied and lied. ELISA is an accurate test of all the Lyme species in the USA? Dr H gets high marks for remaining calm at that point.
There was SUCH an unfair division of time between the 2, with Halpern getting the lion's share.
Also agree that it was a mistake to plug the book. I think the book will be amazing and set a new benchmark. But it was jarring and made him sound like a salesman.
And I know this is trivial. I love irreverent, flamboyant dress. The wild multicolored floral tie would be great when among friends in an ILADS conference. But it was not the best choice in a televised debate with an ISDA zombie clone who effuses mainstream respectability.
Perhaps he wanted to say: "I refuse to shrink into the background and be marginalized. I'm an LLMD, I'm loud, and I'm in your face. Deal with it. And while you're at it, deal with Lyme." But that doesn't work when the director's cut leaves you with only a few nanoseconds of air time...
Posts: 431 | From New England | Registered: Dec 2011
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posted
I think from the shows perspective they would say the IDSA and ILADS got equal time because they would say the time given to patients counted as ILADS time.
I went back and watched the videos again today and found it less upsetting the 2nd time around. Hopefully by presenting two such opposite views the general public would at least do some research and not so readily accept the IDSA line. And patient stories are what gets peoples attention.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Abxnomore
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posted
I agree, Bea. Of course, we all hoped for more but consider the show that this was aired on. Any information at all that gets the public to think is good and the amount of comments it generation on her site can't be overlooked.
Dr. H. is plugging his book and that's to be expected. Many authors do but for the public to know about this book is a good thing.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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lpkayak
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posted
Good point bea. I guess they should have had a patient who suffered for a long time and then got better with idsa protocol
I wonder if katie and company are stupid, scared or just got a call from oprah
She could have pam or brooke on and set things straight but i wouldnt hold your breath
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