MagicAcorn
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posted
Did anyone notice in my article how Ireland is looking into adopting our model because theirs is failing miserably.
I sure hope so.
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LabRat
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Informative post magic, I was thinking of my treatment here where I was diagnosed, a doctor made a phone call and I was on my way to the heart hospital where I had a team forming to do a procedure on me. I guess it's true that you don't know what you've got till it's gone!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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just don
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posted
Magic one, Sounds as if Ireland would have LESS patients to treat. Most of them are dead before their time!! Sounds like our system isnt so bad!! And my understanding is the poor and needy (and uninsured)get treated anyway and written off!!
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
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Boomerang
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posted
I did notice that part of your article, Magic. Thanks for sharing.....
Very sad story about Michael X. I am sorry.
Labrat, glad you got the quick treatment you needed!!
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LabRat
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posted
Me too! I thought of another irony. My GP is a little Cuban. My cardiologist is Lebanese! I'm teaching him Blackjack, (a little at a time) so long as he keeps me alive, we have each other by the short and curl lies! If I go he's left with only part of a system!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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Boomerang
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I am speechless. Is your doctor a rich cuban?
lol... just kidding.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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LabRat
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posted
A gold medal swimmer but these foreigners are like cockroaches, they come over here and live off the smell of an oily rag, suck up all this training, take up all the good jobs and us locals have to .......
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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I think I've finally met my match. Here all these 60 years I thought I was the world's biggest cynic.
Thank you for the breath of fresh air. I don't feel so lonely now.
At times I think the liberals have actually taken over the earth, but you have given me hope.
Please keep your Lebanese MD healthy so that he/she (there I go being PC) can keep you around a long time.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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LabRat
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posted
Thank ye! The libs are gaining tho. They are trying to get the voting age lowered to grade school. They got this same thread going over in medical. I thought we had "won" but the suckers just packed their ditty bag and went over there to a warmer crowd. Like my old pappy use to say, " you can't pin a ballarina's skirt while she's dancing".
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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David95928
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posted
No comment.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
The idea of foreigners is interesting. I have a funny story!!!
When my ex husband and I bought our house o' doom here in Aptos (where I got Lymed clearing the brush from it) we threw a HUGE party!!! A big BBQ!! This was about 2 weeks prior to me getting sick!!
I had just met this redheaded Christian woman local from Aptos at the park and I invited her too.
We had so many people there- friends- friends- friends!!!! About 60 people!!!
So this redheaded woman comes up to me with a hunted look during the BBQ, which was going beautifully, stares around at everyone and says,
"How come you have so many foreigners here? There's only ONE American couple."
The ONE "American" couple was the only Anglo couple- Todd, a friend of my husbands, and his girlfriend who was and is Swedish, not American- and who, despite her blondeness and bluedness, was the ONLY foreigner there.
Anyway, it was a weird moment. I realized that some people in this world are very racist!!!
Deja vu!!!
Thank god for immigration. I am a descendant of one of the first 500 as they are called, if I wanted I could be a member of the DAR. I am blonde and blue myself.
I am actually a conservative in CA for my views on illegal immigration because I am against it and don't think people should be rewarded for illegality- BUT I think legal immigrants are some of the best citizens we have!!! South Asia in particular has contributed amazing people to our culture!!
There are so many Americans who ARE unwilling to do work that other people WILL do gladly.
We are all immigrants to this land unless you're a Native American.
But we all have different opinions!!! That is why politics are best left off this board!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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LabRat
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Cal. I'm in agreement with you. You can't hate someone till you give them a name and put them in a group, after that I think it gets easier. Then every time you get around ``those people'', or they start protesting the temperature of tap water in subsidized housing, you have to work at not being ****ed! So long as we sound pretty much alike and our custom or superstitions don't poke anyone in the eye, we should be having fun! Diversification, makes life interesting and keeps it from being boring, especially interracial marriage, where the wife hides a machete for those ``beno'' meetings. There'll be no more of this BS and there will me no more or that BS! A guided discussion really, but you'd best keep up!
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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CaliforniaLyme
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We agree on that Labrat- I am ashamed to say that I have put a group of people in a group called IDSA and "Steerites" and I do find myself soemtimes hating them- and then I have to PRAY for them to find guidance and all that stuff!!
But sometimes I do hate that group!!!
I do-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I know this is more of a thread concerning Michael Moore than it is about true health care, but I thought I'd relate an experience I recently had with my new primary care physician:
After two visits with this new guy and exhaustive lab tests, he said I was doing "fairly well for a man my age", I turn 60 in October.
A little concerned about that comment, I couldn't resist asking him, "Do you think I'll live to be 80"?
He asked, "Do you smoke tobacco or drink alcoholic beverages?"
"No," I replied. "I don't do drugs, either."
Then he asked, "Do you eat greasy foods like rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?"
I told him that, "No, my other doctor said that all red meat is unhealthy!"
He then asked me if I spent a lot of time in the sun, like playing golf, boating, fishing or relaxing at the beach?"
"No, I don't," I told him.
He then asked, "Do you have a lot of sex at this point in your life?"
"No," I said. "I don't do any of those things."
Then he looked at me and asked, "Then why do you give a crap if you live to be 80 or not"?
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
I think we need to define our terms very carefully.
As I understand it, and as MM reiterated: Universal Health Care is not Socialized Medicine.
Universal Health Care just eliminates all the insurance leeches (the skimmers) who produce...nothing. (opportunists should not be defined as capitalists either) And the single payer(administrator) could (but probably won't I admit) be other than Government.
Socialized medicine is what the VA has: hospitals owned by the government and doctors hired by and employed by the government. That is not what we will have.
I am all for capitalism. (small c) I am not for International Corporatism... There is a growing difference...and if you are unaware of what is happening and who is taking over our government you should look again. (just follow the money...who is paying our politicians? who is profiting?) Our Pharmacies (BIG PACS that wrote the 2003 NEOCON Medicare rules) are INTERNATIONAL CORPS. (International OIL Companies helped write our Energy POLICY for pete's sake..which is why the VP won't release the records) And Our Corporate Media is/are almost all in that same international category now. PEACE is now WAR dont' you know?
Things to ponder:
Currently the infant mortality rate in the US is way below other westernized countries and closer to what we term third world countries. Is this what we want? Is the better?
Currently the longevity in the US is less than that found in other westernized countries. Is this what we want? If this is better, it is a weird definition of better.
My aging sister in the UK cannot afford to return to the US because of the cost of health care here. By the way, because she pays a little out of pocket she gets top notch care over there...but still couldn't afford the cost of health care here.
I meet people everyday... with jobs, but without health insurance, who are just holding their breath and praying they don't get sick. I know one who died of breast cancer because she couldn't afford treatment.
I also know people who have been denied care by their insurance companies.
Let's start talking the WE instead of the ME like MM says and do the best for the most.
In the final anaylysis: Nothing will change for the upper eschalons: them who can pay will still pay for top notch care...and get it.
But everyone else will be at least above the water level. They currently are below it.
glub glub as I go down for the third time
Posts: 101 | From CA, USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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RoadRunner
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posted
CA quest
Great post
Thanks
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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I've just got to take exception to several of your points:
quote:1. Universal Health Care is not Socialized Medicine
Semantics - Even you stated
quote:And the single payer(administrator) could (but probably won't I admit) be other than Government.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be government funded, government controlled, government administered health care = Socialized Medicine!
Pretty typical of our day and age of Political Correctness; illegal aliens are now undocumented workers, etc., etc. Socialized Medicine is now Universal Health Care.
quote:Currently the infant mortality rate in the US is way below other westernized countries and closer to what we term third world countries.
Just not true. From our stellar Center for Disease Control (in and of itself reason not to want government run healthcare), comes the following statistics:
(The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the reported number of infants dying under a year of age, per one thousand live births)
173 Cyprus 6.89 174 Northern Mariana Islands 6.85 175 Israel 6.75 176 Guam 6.68 177 Lithuania 6.68 178 Belarus 6.63 179 Croatia 6.60 180 United States 6.37 181 Korea, South 6.05 182 Cuba 6.04 183 Faroe Islands 6.01 184 Isle of Man 5.72 185 Italy 5.72 186 New Zealand 5.67 187 Taiwan 5.54 188 San Marino 5.53 189 Greece 5.34 190 Monaco 5.27 191 Ireland 5.22
Please note the following map provided by the CDC:
Notice that most of the Socialized Healthcare countries are categorized by the CDC as being in the same range in infant mortality as the U.S.
My biggest problem with your input is; how does infant mortality relate to who provides health care in any form.
Infant mortality would seem to be more adversely affected by individual living conditions, health of the mother etc rather than whether the baby is being treated by a private doctor or a government controlled doctor.
I also have a map of life expectancy provided by the CDC and again we rank in the same category as most of the "Universal Healthcare" countries.
But again, I just don't see the analogy between longevity and who is providing healthcare. Longevity has got to be more adversely affected by life-style, diet, environment, and heredity.
I'm plagiarizing now, but I love the thought process:
quote:Logic cannot support the premise that health care is a right. Health care is a service that is administered by another human being with the requisite skills and knowledge. To claim that healthcare as a "right" is to claim a right to the services of the health-care provider. In effect, this means you are claiming a "right" to a portion of that person's life - both a portion of the time already spent developing his skills, and a portion of the time spent practicing those skills on you.
Thanks for listening
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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heiwalove
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posted
lymedad,
the US is ranked 37th by the world health organization in terms of quality of healthcare, just one slot (ONE) above cuba. source: here
canadians live three years longer than we do, according to the UN human development report. source: here
according to the united nations statistics division, a baby born in el salvador has a better chance of surviving than a baby born in detroit. source: here
cuba has a lower infant mortality rate and a longer lifespan on average than the US. source: here and here
RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 380
posted
poor people need to be insured in this country. health care should be better and for all people in U.S.A. no one should be without health care in U.S.A. rich or poor shouldn't make a difference everyone should have it. health care in this country needs to get better no matter how it gets done.
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Lyme Dad quoted something about healthcare not being a "right". That is just a red herring thrown in to push buttons and has nothing to do with the topic at hand that I can see, because we are not talking about "rights".
We are talking about the benefits of having a healthy society vs the dangers of an unhealthy society and how best to attain that. When large portions of a group/population do not get adequate health care, ...it has the capacity to hurt the rest of the group: contagious diseses & other Public Health issues spring most readily to mind. But it probably impacts other areas of society too: For instance, it is difficult to work or learn if you are ill...much less be a contributing member of society in almost any capacity. Most of us here have experienced that.
In conclusion: Not only do I think that Universal Health Care is a moral imperative (people vs corporations), I think it will benefit all of us....even the rich.
Posts: 101 | From CA, USA | Registered: Jan 2005
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Boomerang
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posted
A Review of Sicko.......not my review. Just an FYI. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drove to the local multiplex the other night to see Michael Moore's latest movie. My wife came along, but she wisely choose to see the latest Harry Potter flick instead. I envied her.
Michael Moore has always seemed to me to embody the essence of the middle-class socialist as described by George Orwell. "The underlying motive of many socialists, I believe, is simply a hy pertrophied sense of order," Orwell wrote. "The present state of affairs offends them not because it causes misery, still less because it makes freedom impossible, but because it is untidy."
That certainly seems to be the case with Moore. He has no real empathy with the forlorn characters he puts up on the screen. They are just vehicles for his enduring urge to have the government run things. And in Moore's world, the government always runs things better.
The supposed high point of "Sicko" is a trip to Cuba he makes with some rescue workers who claim various injuries from responding to the 9/11 attacks. After a quick tour of Havana, he trots them off to a gleaming hospital where they receive top-notch medical care. Moore assures us that the care is exactly the same as a typical Cuban would receive.
Not quite. Anthony Boadle, the Havana correspondent for Reuters, reported that the hospital featured in the film was "Cuba's flagship hospital with a view of the Caribbean sea, a sharp contrast to many Cuban hospitals that are crumbling, badly lit, and which lack equipment and medicines."
Moore also glosses over the fact that the average Cuban lives in conditions that would appall the typical American. When I traveled there in 1994, I was amazed to find people raising pigs and chickens in the halls of what had once been gracious apartment buildings. The livestock supplements a diet of rice, beans and not much else. This points to the sole unique accomplishment of the Cuban socialists in the area of health care: They have cured obesity. I kept waiting for just one lighthearted moment during which Moore would contrast his own immense bulk with the trim physiques of the Cubans.
But there are no light moments in "Sicko." Moore pounds his points home the same way those immense hams of his pound the sidewalks as he visits Canada, Cuba, France and England.
The central premise of the movie is Moore's assertion that "we remain the only country in the Western world without free and universal health care." This is nonsense. Moore spends day after day in France, for example, without discovering that the French do not have a no-fee system like the English, but in fact have a system of basic insurance, supplemental insurance and co-pays. The typical resident of neighboring Germany, meanwhile, has 14 percent of gross pay deducted for a so-called "sickness fund." The big difference between other countries and the United States is not that they have free health coverage. It's that they have mandatory health coverage.
And even those countries that have entirely state-run systems are not quite as "free" as Moore makes them out to be. Early in the movie, he highlights the case of an American couple with a deaf child whose insurance company would not pay for cochlear implants in both ears. Being able to hear from just one ear was sufficient, the company said.
That may sound cruel, but according to a recent article in the Nottingham Post, an English family was told the same thing by the national health service there. The big difference was that the American company eventually relented and let the kid have his implants. As for the English kid, his parents had to shell out $63,000 for the second implant.
Moore highlights an American cancer victim who died after he was denied a bone-marrow transplant. But that patient might not have fared any better in England, where a so-called "post-code lottery" either awards or denies treatment to patients based on how much money is in the budget of the health care district in which they live.
There is indeed plenty wrong with the American health-care system. But the government takeover Moore advocates would not cure it. Later in the movie he notes that 65 percent of American kids don't know where England is. In other words, the same government that can't teach kids to read a map is going to somehow be entrusted with our lives.
This sort of thing might be amusing if Moore had a lighter touch. But the movie didn't induce a single chuckle in the audience the other night. Perhaps that's because there was only one other person in the theater with me. The other theater-goers were all off watching something the English really are good at: acting out the Harry Potter books.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
moore gets people facing and talking about these isues. that's always a good thing.
i wouldn't begin to know how to fix our healthcare system, but i'm fairly certain that it pretty much bites overall.
i would consider this a universal concern, for many reasons.
my guess from the thread responses is that moore simply comes with a load of political baggage, pulling down the Bush administration's pants and all.. clearly, his other films are somewhat politically un-poopular to some folks.
nevertheless, we all suffer these hardships, and their impact on society, in the same way.
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
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Member # 78
posted
Issues? Anyone has a thought on socialism? Le'me get'ch started! Socialism is when you see your neighbor coming to borrow the lawn mower you just got out of the shop from the last time he borrowed it and you know he knows your home. While he's getting ready to ask you for the mower, he mentions that you didn't buy any cookies from his girl scouts and they said you wasn't very nice. (Actually happened!)
A friend in need is a pest!
They get theirs, and most of mine!
It is my understanding that a 22 year old with a liver burnt out from drugs, goes on the same waiting list just like a captain of industry. Much fairer than the old way where your value to the community was considered, eh comrade? Any thoughts?
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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heiwalove
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posted
boomerang -
perhaps you should actually see the film yourself and draw your OWN conclusions. hmmm?
also, Sicko was heartbreaking, yes - but it was damn funny, too. moore has a great sense of humor, and there were many lighthearted moments throughout.
labrat -
how, pray tell, is one's 'value to the community' taken into consideration in this fabulous country's healthcare system? if you're a millionaire and all you've ever done is screw people over all your life to get richer and richer, you get AMAZING health coverage, no questions asked! if, however, you've TRULY served your community - maybe you're a community organizer in the Bronx, you empower people in your neighborhood to take control of their lives, demand fair working conditions, better wages, housing, etc; you work 12 hour days and are available to anyone in your neighborhood in need, anytime of the day or night; and, guess what? you have no health coverage! none! zip! zero!
posted
Canada's universal health care system is not perfect - we pay high high taxes and endure long long waiting lists. Those who can afford to do so either go to the private clinic in Vancouver or go to the US for immediate treatment.
Even so, it's far better than what Americans are faced with and I wouldn't trade for your system for all the tea in China.
Michael Moore is telling it pretty much the way it is so that action will be taken. Demand decent health care! Don't wait til you must make a decision like which digit to keep and which to kiss goodbye
Mary
Posts: 267 | From Abbotsford BC | Registered: Jul 2003
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Do you even read other people's posts or are you so blinded by your socialist rhetoric that you choose to ignore what people actually write?
Boomerang writes:
quote:I drove to the local multiplex the other night to see Michael Moore's latest movie. My wife came along, but she wisely choose to see the latest Harry Potter flick instead. I envied her.
Then you make the asinine statement:
quote:perhaps you should actually see the film yourself and draw your OWN conclusions. hmmm?
Boomerang wrote a very well thought out post with what seems to be logical conclusions. It appears you didn't even give him/her the respect of at least reading what they have to say.
Then you miss LabRat's meanings in his comments completely.
It's called sarcasm. Socialized Medicine - all equal treatment, Communism - treatment first to those most valued in the collective. Get it - SARCASM. (You know it's just not the same if you gotta explain it).
Take a lesson from a fellow New Yorker - Mo. She and I don't agree on much politically, but we at least give each other the respect of listening to one another. It's called communications. Try it some time.
I'm having distinct flashbacks to the mid-1960s; have all the hippies died in San Francisco and been reincarnated in New York City? (No offense intended Mo, or maybe it's a complement, huh?)
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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RoadRunner
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posted
Mary J
great post
It sounds like some people on this topic aren't very giving.
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
I'm trying to work on a new website and I can't get this Michael Moore thread out of my head.
I keep coming back to the thought, what in world does Michael Moore, Socialized Medicine or any of this thread have to do with Lyme Disease??
I know, it's "Off Topic", but the reality is that regardless of which medical system we have, it's not going to help those with Lyme.
We can argue the pros and cons of our health system versus the Western European model or the Canadian model or the Australian model until the cows come home (country-boy expression: you see Mo the cows won't come home until it's real late, if you don't train 'em proper).
The facts seem to me to be: unless we provide some financial incentive for someone to find a cure for this disease, we're not solving our collective problem - TBD. It also seems to me we're going to have to find a Rock Hudson or someone like him to do what he did for AIDS awareness and research.
We're also going to have to find that genius research doctor(s) who all look forward to making millions of dollars when he/they find a cure for Lyme, etc.
I just can't see that happening in a medical system where a centralized agency - federal government, state appointed bureaucratic system, or our current government influenced private health insurance industry - controls that research incentive.
So far our medical system, for the most part, doesn't recognize Chronic Lyme as a real disease. We're not getting any real medical benefit from our health insurance companies or our major medical organizations.
When we do get help it's in the form of symptom treatment not curative treatment.
From what I've read, specifically on this website, most of the western European doctors have even less of a clue than ours do.
The only success that I've witnessed personally is with a true fee-for-service medical treatment.
I pay my daughter's doctor out-of-pocket.
He provides excellent care and he is not beholding to either the central government of Socialized Medicine or the health insurance companies. He is purely motivated by my daughter's care.
Maybe that's the answer, we all go back to a true barter system. The doctor comes to your house, treats you, you give him a chicken. If he happens to cut off the wrong leg, you don't sue him for four chickens, you just don't call that same doctor next time.
So far, I've read, in this thread, that Michael Moore has all the answers to all of our health care needs yet I haven't heard anyone tell us what he's going to do about healing my daughter.
Okay now I can go back to work - I've got to earn the money to buy chickens for my daughter's doctor appointment next week.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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Of course I believe in Santa Claus - do you know something I don't????
Be careful now, you'll hurt my feelings (Nah, probably not).
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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heiwalove
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Member # 6467
posted
lymedad,
perhaps YOU should do a better job of reading before you jump down my throat. please scroll back up to boomerang's post. the review he posted was, and i quote, 'NOT [HIS] REVIEW.' the words you quoted were someone else's, NOT boomerang's. so, since he didn't post his own review of the movie, i extrapolated that he hasn't yet seen the film himself. make sense? okay, moving on..
i respect you as a person and someone who obviously cares a great deal about his sick daughter. that is admirable and wonderful and many of your posts about your daughter have deeply touched my heart. however, maybe you should give some thought to the fact that you are lucky to be able to help your daughter at all - many people do not have the money, no matter how hard they've worked in their lives, to afford even one visit to an LLMD.
and, you can call me all the names you want, but what i believe is not 'socialist rhetoric' - in fact i don't consider myself a socialist, though my politics are indeed partially informed by socialist ideals. i think Marx and others of his ilk had some really amazing ideas and some solid theories about how society works (and perhaps you should read 'Capital' - both volumes - before you knock him), but i don't subscribe completely to all his ideas, or any other thinker/theorist for that matter. my politics are a complex & evolving amalgamation influenced by Marx, Murray Bookchin, bell hooks, Angela Davis, Sekou Sundiata (my incredible college poetry professor & mentor who just passed away last week), Howard Zinn, Emma Goldman, Audre Lorde, and many, many others (in fact, there is no way i could possibly list them all), as well as my day-to-day experience as a young lesbian woman with a chronic illness trying to survive and navigate this often difficult world.
as a straight, middle-income, able-bodied, white (i'm assuming; please correct me if i'm wrong) military man, i don't think you know what it's like to live in this world as someone who is often the target of discrimination and hatred. maybe you should consider opening your heart and listening to people who DO know that experience, who live it every single day of their lives.
1. I stand corrected re: Boomerang's post. As you pointed out, it appears as though he is quoting another source.
2. I have not nor do I ever call anyone derogatory names. If you are referring to my comment concerning your "socialist rhetoric" as my calling you a name, then you're not quite thick-skinned enough to be debating these issues.
You are absolutely correct, I am a 60 year old, caucasian male American of Irish/English/French ancestory. I make no apologies for my heritage.
I do not find myself lucky to be able to afford the money to assist my daughter with her medical care. I do however find myself to be truly blessed to have been born here in the U.S.
It is by that birth-right that I have been afforded the opportunity to earn, through hard work and personal sacrifice, the money to help pay for my daughter's care.
I choose not to discuss my sexuality here or anywhere else because quite frankly, it does not define who I am.
I doubt that you have either the age or maturity to be preaching to anyone about what life is really all about.
Until you've gotten yourself out of abject poverty, lived in 5 different countries, raised your own children, fought in 2 separate wars and survived beyond your 30th birthday, please don't pretend to lecture anyone on life beyond the theoretical.
I'm sure you're a nice person, I'm sure you've struggled with your illness and you think you have all the answers.
I can tell you this one last thing, life cannot be found in books by Marx, Lenin, Gore, or anyone else. You just gotta live it to know it.
Take care of yourself and be well.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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heiwalove
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posted
lymedad,
i just want to say, it is interesting, i think, the differing political views that can be borne out of fighting a war. of course, i will never, ever know what that is like, because i find war to be always unjust no matter what the circumstances - so there is no way on god's green earth that i would ever sign up to fight one.
there are your politics, deeply informed, it seems, by your experience fighting two wars (which, i admit, i cannot even begin to imagine) and a deep sense of patriotism and loyalty to the united states.
then, there's a man named howard zinn, whom i linked to above - here he is again - who took a very different route as a result of his experience in WWII (you can read about that in his wikipedia entry). professor zinn, you might notice, is significantly older than you; and yet, his politics match mine. or rather, i should say, mine match his, as i have learned a great deal from him, both in reading his work and hearing him speak numerous times; plus, yes, he has lived and experienced SO much more than i have.
no, i certainly don't know everything - not even close. i'm learning every moment of every day. my views may very well evolve with age, but really - i think they will become more honed and well-informed, as zinn's most certainly are. i don't see myself suddenly becoming a bush supporter or thinking this country is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
i don't yet know what life is all about, that's absolutely true; but i have almost died from lyme disease, and being that close to death, i think, forces you to realize some things about life that you would otherwise have no clue about. you're right, i have not gotten myself out of abject poverty (my mother did that, raised me herself with no help whatsoever from my father). i do know what it's like, however, to fear for my life because i'm a woman walking alone at night; i know what it's like to be spit on by a complete stranger for being gay, and to be disowned by part of my family for the same reason; i know what it's like to fear for my life because i'm walking with my girlfriend at night and a group of men saunters up to us, calls us 'f***ing dykes,' says a whole bunch of other stuff that's way too awful to repeat on this board, threatens to rape us, and hurls open cans of beer at our heads. these are all things i have experienced in my 27 years of life so far.
it is my belief that the experiences of young people are no less valid than the experiences of those who are older. in fact, in my years working with children and teenagers, i'm quite sure they have taught me far more than i have taught them.
anyway, i also wish you well, and i send you & your daughter love and healing light.
RoadRunner
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 380
posted
quote:Originally posted by heiwalove: i do know what it's like, however, to fear for my life because i'm a woman walking alone at night; i know what it's like to be spit on by a complete stranger for being gay, and to be disowned by part of my family for the same reason; i know what it's like to fear for my life because i'm walking with my girlfriend at night and a group of men saunters up to us, calls us 'f***ing dykes,' says a whole bunch of other stuff that's way too awful to repeat on this board, threatens to rape us, and hurls open cans of beer at our heads. these are all things i have experienced in my 27 years of life so far.
This is so wrong that people do this to you. they need to get a life and stop being so hateful. I wish something could be done about this it is so sad that in the year 2007 people are like this still....
RR
-------------------- "Beep Beep" Posts: 2630 | From ct | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Now Mo, here we were having a quiet non-emotional discussion about the merits of Michael Moore's latest documentary venture and you go and turn it into a political statement.
Now what can I do but you report you to the board police. Besides, I doubt seriously that GWB really has that nice of looking legs. They actually look more like John Edward's legs.
Hope you and your family are doing well.
Look forward to hearing more from you as '08 approaches.
Posts: 681 | From California | Registered: Oct 2005
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..on the chance you may be saucing it up; images may seem more attractive than they appear..
mo
Posts: 8337 | From the other shore | Registered: Jul 2002
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LabRat
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 78
posted
I wasn't looking, Iwasn't looking, I wasn't looking.....well, I might have glanced, but quickly turned to save me sight....and me breckfust....
Posts: 1887 | From Corpus Christi, Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I have no doubt that the film "Sicko" is rather heart- wrenching. I plan to see it, but may not be able to for awhile...I did manage to get "Farenheit 911"- that one was indeed a pretty powerful heart-wrenching eye-opener, even for one whose eyes didn't seem totally sqezzed shut before watching it.. ... DaveS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by lymedad: Now Mo, here we were having a quiet non-emotional discussion about the merits of Michael Moore's latest documentary venture and you go and turn it into a political statement.
But wait a minute-- having a quiet non-emotional discussion about the merits of Michael Moore's latest film is already a (rather progressive) political statement in and of itself, isn't it? DS
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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