Topic: MMS kills pathogens and Neutralizes toxic Heavy Metals
Razzle
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posted
So if a person gets blotchy rash on their skin from swimming pool or chlorinated tap water, is MMS safe for them to take? I wouldn't think so, but asking just to clarify...
Also, is MMS safe to use orally or topically if one still has amalgam fillings in their teeth?
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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GiGi
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Razzle, Amalgam can be such a vicious thing and can cause an array of problems. Mercury moves into many different body areas and the skin is no exception. The law of osmosis takes care of that.
I would direct that question to the MMS Forum. They do a good job trying to answer. I think I linked it above.
As far as I know, MMS has not killed anyone, but Mercury has done that a million times.
I would not be alive any longer if I still had metals in my mouth, because parts had shifted from the teeth to everywhere else.
I am also sure that you have heard that many times before, and I hope you are asking for another person noticing that you have had symptoms for so many years.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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Gigi, been taking MMS hourly, doing the bath tub method and enemas....No adverse reactions and feel a little more energetic....
Posts: 116 | From California | Registered: Feb 2010
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GiGi
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Sounds good, Kristen J. Don't overdo. Are you taking Quinton? or a good mineral replacement?
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Is the Core considered a good mineral supplement for MMS?
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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GiGi
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MattH, CORE is not sufficient. That is addressing the misssing items to correct KPU.
I started to take Quinton again as I did years ago. I cannot find it in a liter bottle at this time, so am taking the glass vials. It is much more reasonable to get the big bottle. If I can avoid capsules and tablets, I will.
Best to you, MattH.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Yesterday I just ordered Umac-Core, Marine Phytoplankton, 500 mg, 90 Veggie Caps from Iherb. I will look for another good mineral supp. as well. With all I am spending on the Dr K cocktail, UVB/Ozone IV's I would like to stretch my funds as far as possible so I am looking for good , cheap and complementary where it exists!
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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Gigi, for minerals i'm taking Core and minerals of life. But would love some information about Quinton...is it only by injection? can it be taken orally? I will ask AD to test me for it, next time we speak.
Posts: 116 | From California | Registered: Feb 2010
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karenl
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The Quinton is a vial which you open and drink, or drink half on the first day. there are two different Quintons: isotonic hypertonic which also has 11 mg magnesium per vial
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GiGi
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This explains Quinton (not necessarily from this seller). Last time I looked I found it in a liter bottle which is of course much more reasonable. Can't seem to find it anymore. If you are looking, let me know if you run into it, please.
When I test myself energetically (tensor), I try to take Quinton before I do, because it immediately connects my own electric network to clearly give stronger signals.
Andrease Kalcker explains it very clearly in one of the YouTubes (I think the one he does in Prag with the translater) how our body is first of all an electric body and biochemistry comes after that. In other words, thinking of a motor, we have to fire on all cylinders before our autonomics function again the way they are meant to function. This dysfunction is often caused by lack of minerals and/or myelin damage by toxic metals and infections. It will heal, but it takes a long time. That myelin I damage also causes us to be so overly sensitive to EMF, odors, bright lights, etc. etc. I had it very badly until I detoxed a ton of metals.
So when it comes to choosing minerals, the best is worth it. Most minerals are poorly absorbed and some of the industrial minerals are not good. Dr. K. refers to them as the colloidal minerals.
As karenl said, there are two different Quinton types - I should take the isotonic because I am over sixty years old. So read all about it.
Take care.
P.S. If you can't afford Quinton, make sole from Himalayan Rock Salt (Swansons Vitamin) and take a T in your drinking water every day. It gives you all the minerals tnat is in Himalayan salt. The book "Water & Salt" is a wonderful book and info worth having.
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hiker53
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I like Gigi's suggestion about making your own "quinton" solution. Quinton is very expensive for salt water (isotonic) or for salt water with Mg (hypertonic). Much much cheaper to make your own.
Then if you use energy testing you have not wasted a lot of money if you do not test well for it.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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By no means did I intend to say that homemade sole from Himalayan salt is is the equivalent to Quinton /Sea Water.
If you have a chance please let me know how you do the skin application with coconut water?
Thanks and i'm definitely feeling good things with MMS...
Posts: 116 | From California | Registered: Feb 2010
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GiGi
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Kristen J., glad to hear this. The very same at my house -- all feels good!
All I do, very unscientifically, rub some coconut oil (not water) into my hand and sprinkle some of the ready made activated 24drop type MMS into my hand and rub it into the skin wherever I feel I need it -- feet, calves, around liver, and reaching back over the kidneys who are grateful for this. That is all.
If my jaw or neck felt sore, which it doesn't, I would rub it in there also.
My good friend in New York is doing MMS just like I am and definitely improving greatly. She had been fighting parasites for many years. She finds the best rewards by doing a 2-3-4-5 minute MMS retention enema. Major advantage: biofilm plus and absorption into body very quickly as compared to oral, stomach, etc.
You can use a little fleet enema - with some MMS in it.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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birdie, as you will read in this link (be sure you read both pages), the MMS experts say it is okay. I would start with one activated drop and a short retention, and then go higher by another drop as long as you are comfortable. I moved up to the 20 max for enemas in about 8-9 days. But I got rid of Lyme many years ago. So it is a bit different.
The enema protocol is also on www.jimhumble.biz Just go and do some reading and most of all listning to the YouTubes of Andreas Kalcker, etc. You can learn a lot that will come in handy.
Get well!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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I have a 6 gallon hopper that I used for colonics done with my own colonic board.
I did a couple of evacuations with fresh water.
Then switched to the enema bag and did a coffee enema.
After the coffee enema I did a colonic using about 3 gallons of water.
When there were 2 gallons left in the hopper, I added 32 drops of activated MMS to the water. Then filled my gut up twice and held it for as long as I could.
THEN, I followed this up by doing an ozone insufflation. Filled the gut up with ozone, held it, the pressure subsided as the ozone was absorbed into the bloodstream, filled up again and held it. When I was finished, I passed some of the ozone out, but was able to hold and absorb a lot of it. Then I went to bed.
In the afternoon the next day, I started getting a headache. When I woke up to go to the bathroom the next night----GAH-JINGAAAAH. Really sore shoulders and neck. Got a nice herx. It cleared pretty quickly but it's good to know that I killed a bunch of stuff.
Here's my take: A big part of healing from Lyme is solving the gut issues. MMS enemas and colonics can aid in this. Taking the MMS orally hits it from the other side.
The metal-neutralizing thing is an important bonus, because it is likely that the metals created the gut terrain problems in the first place that allowed the yeast and parasites to thrive.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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Tammy N.
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I just ordered some MMS for myself. Haven't had a chance to read this great thread yet, but I plan to.
After all the various treatments GiGi has tried throughout the years....if she says this has been one of the best, that's just about all I need to know. Many thanks, GiGi.
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Chaps -- Why don't you try a little harder than your half-hearted attempt? haha, lol. Wow, you seem like a man on a mission!! Glad you survived it. Be careful not to overdo it. Who did the ozone insufflation for you?
BTW - glad you decided to try this first instead of the Flagyl idea. I bet you will get good results. Wishing you well.
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GiGi
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Coffee is an antioxidant. MMS is an an oxidizer. Coffee will cancel out the oxidizing effect of MMS. Same as Vitamin C = an antioxidant. Any antioxidants. MMS has been researched on thousands of patients - so I follow it and have great results.
Jim Humble's book has 320 pages and I am not going to spell all of it out here. Please purchase the book for $20. It will prevent you from making mistakes. Don't reinvent the wheel. Recipes for eyes, skin, other applications are in the book. I will not repeat them here.
The MAXIMUM activated drops should stay at 24 divided over an 8 hour time spread. Anything higher, can make you feel very sick and it totally against all recommendations.
Herxheimers are not desirable. MMS goes way beyond just the gut - I can feel it gently within minutes in my head, face, ears, wherever there is still some pathogen to capture. 250,000 eggs a day of Ascaris go everywhere - in every joint, muscle, organs.
MMS works if you do it right.
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Razzle
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Razzle, Amalgam can be such a vicious thing and can cause an array of problems. Mercury moves into many different body areas and the skin is no exception. The law of osmosis takes care of that.
I would direct that question to the MMS Forum. They do a good job trying to answer. I think I linked it above.
As far as I know, MMS has not killed anyone, but Mercury has done that a million times.
I would not be alive any longer if I still had metals in my mouth, because parts had shifted from the teeth to everywhere else.
I am also sure that you have heard that many times before, and I hope you are asking for another person noticing that you have had symptoms for so many years.
Take care.
I got Lyme waaaayyyyyy before I had amalgam fillings...
But that aside, I couldn't find the link to the forum to ask the questions about MMS...
I also didn't ask my questions here to get a sales pitch for taking mercury out. I already have heard all of that stuff for years and years.
All I want to know is:
1. Is MMS safe to take if one is allergic to the chlorine in tap water and swimming pool water?
2. Is MMS safe to take if one has amalgams in their mouth?
Thanks,
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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GiGi
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I don't think taking MMS all the time for the rest of your life and teeth would be much fun. Maybe take another look at the Smoking Tooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylnQ-T7oiA
Metal toxicity is a major cause for allergic reactions. That may answer your other questions.
Mercury toxicity is passed along from Mom. Or via a number of other sources.
You can't say I haven't tried even though your comments are not very kind.
Just like to help.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote: Coffee is an antioxidant. MMS is an an oxidizer. Coffee will cancel out the oxidizing effect of MMS
Apparently you weren't listening.
I did the pure water after the coffee enema and rinsed all the coffee out. The purpose of the coffee enema was to get the gall bladder to squirt bile through the liver and do some detoxing.
By the time I added the MMS, there were no traces of coffee in the colon.
And as for the 24 drops....that's if you're taking it orally AND putting 3 drops per 8 ounces.
Since I had 2 gallons of water in the colonic hopper, if you know your math and metrics, it would have required 96 drops of MMS to turn my colonic solution into the same strength as the 3 drops per 8 oz. solution that is taken orally.
In other words, my 32 drop solution was actually 1/3 the strength of what you are recommending to be taken orally.
Your post implies that by putting 2 gallons of water in my colon with 32 drops of MMS in it that my body absorbed all two gallons of water and all 32 drops of MMS. I don't think so!
quote: Chaps -- Why don't you try a little harder than your half-hearted attempt? haha, lol. Wow, you seem like a man on a mission!! Glad you survived it. Be careful not to overdo it. Who did the ozone insufflation for you?
Hi there Tammy! Good to hear from you. Yeah, I've been more aggressive in my treatments lately but I've worked my way up to this. My pathogen load is down and I've been improving. I'm committed to being done with this disease this year.
The ozone insufflations I do myself. I have an oxygen concentrator hooked up to dual chamber ozone generator. I run the ozone through a humidifying bubbler then into a catheter which is inserted rectally. When the colon is evacuated, you can fill up the colon very nicely with ozone.
I also do ozone saunas. I bought a cheap tent steam sauna and just run the ozone into that. There are youtube videos of people (I recall a blond German fraulein) who claims to have gotten rid of Lyme in one year just doing ozone saunas. I think the video is entitled "Ozone Knocks Out Lyme in One Year."
If you want to look into this, buy the book by Ed McCabe, "Flood Your Body With Oxygen" and you can purchase the ozone products on the PromoLife website.
Make no mistake, MMS is a powerful treatment, but is not the be-all end-all that someone here is trying to make it out to be.
She had everyone dropping 6-7 bills on those kooky hocus-pocus drops of water from Germany dat sposed to kurrectin zee dysrehgulaten in zee DNA---yaaaah. How'd that work out for ya?
And this Dr.in Seattle? Shoot, I know about a dozen people who gave this guy enough money to buy another HOUSE in hopes that this so-called "genius" could help them and they're no better off today than when they stepped on the plane to go and see him.
And after all this nonsense of talking about Kryptopylurria and Hypopyolurria (and other crazy words that I can't spell) ultra-expensive supplements, and actually getting people to drink their own pee and now he's telling people, "Gee, that MMS and the Salt/C Protocol are pretty good after all."
Gee thanks a lot! Why didn't you recommend these inexpensive, but effective therapies in the first place?
I feel so sorry for the people spent their life savings and last hope on this guy.
Taking money and creating the illusion that the results will be worth the money without being able to produce those results....morally reprehensible.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
For those of you who want to know more about MMS, there are Yahoo groups that discuss their experiences with this.
There's a moderator who will answer your questions without the condescending snootiness and the "read the book, I'm not going to explain it to you here" attitude that we see so often here.
It sucks when people make posts that are like "drive-by shootings." They take their shots make grandiose claims, and then say, "I'm not going to explain it any more."
That reminds me of Kramer on Seinfeld when he does the "Peterman Reality Bus Tour" and yells to his customers, "no more questions."
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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Razzle
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Gigi,
I am publicly apologizing to you.
My intention was not mean. I just wanted facts without having to wade through info of which I was already aware.
I am very sick right now (thanks to my annual April flareup) and don't have the strength or energy to dig through info I have already seen/read/heard to look for the tidbits for which I am seeking.
So again, please accept my apology. Take care,
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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GiGi
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Chaps, WOW. Sad.
************************************************
Razzle, apology accepted. Thank you.
************************************************
In general, about the beloved Herxheimers:
"HERXHEIMER EFFECT (important comment about detoxification)
Sometimes when a person first begins to ingest a large amount of MMS or other powerful detoxifier, chlorine dioxide ions are extremely effective in cleansing the body of pathogens, heavy metals and other ballasts that the body no longer remove , storing them in adipose tissue, intestines, etc.
If the body is extremely intoxicated or sick, do not rush to give out all at once. If pathogens are killed too quickly, the 5 channels to eliminate them (like liver, kidneys, skin, lungs and intestines) could be temporarily overloaded by toxins resulted from MMS's action, causing a short "healing crisis" through flu symptoms, skin irritation, headaches, dizziness, nausea or cramps. All these symptoms should dissapear soon.This effect is called "Herxheimer" - aka "the Wellness Syndrome. "
They are so called after Dr. Karl Herxheimer, who first identified the phenomenon. It is the result of the death of tens of millions of pathogens that remove toxins when disintegrated. Elimination is so rapid and widespread that the body is unable to effectively process the toxins occurred, quickly enough to prevent the symptoms described above.Diarrhea may occur because the body tries to cleanse itself. In this case you just need to reduce the amount of MMS until the healing crisis has passed and then start to increase the dosage in small amounts, increasing gradually.
This purification process can be helped by ingestion of large quantities of pure clean water every day to help the body eliminate the millions of toxins appeared. Regular emptying of bowels is required to free us from the detoxification discomfort. Also an enema is welcome. Decide to exclude from your diet refined carbohydrates (white sugar, refined white flour and products derived therefrom, etc.) and saturated fat.
Avoid eating vitamin C or foods containing it while on treatment with MMS, and foods rich in antioxidants, especially artificial ones. MMS is a strong oxidizer and if we intake vitamin C or any other antioxidants you will not be harmed, but they will eliminate each other and the body will not benefit from the effects of either. Strive to do more exercise. If the opportunity is given, your body will amaze you with its ability to self heal.
Important notice: The Herxheimer effect is not a toxic reaction to MMS. In fact, the Herxheimer effect will trigger a toxic reaction , but not to MMS but against infections that are rapidly cleared from the body. It is important to note this difference, especially if the person wants to treat a chronic disease."
Yes Gigi, it really is sad that a doctor would take so much money out of sick peoples' pockets so that he could conduct experiments on them that don't work. And most of these people are not working due to their ill health and they need every penny.
Sad, indeed.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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GiGi
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lightfood, thank you for posting these links. In the meantime we have done some more research and there is only one Quinton. All others are not.
So I will stick with this and cut out something else in my life that is not as important. Please read about the history of Quinton, etc. Replacement for lost blood during the war!!!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tammy N.
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Chaps - Dr. K is not the money grabbing doc you are thinking him to be. Actually, his office fees are fairly reasonable considering all you get when you are with him. While out at his clinic, he recommends and introduces you to certain treatments. These can add up. But you don't have to do them. Since they are recommended, most people try them out. Then when they go back home, they try to find practitioners who can carry out these therapies (ozone saunas, colonics, various IVs, etc.)
I know many more LLMDs who charge A LOT more for their services. Plus they charge thousands for tests they want performed. Because of ART testing Dr. K saves his patients thousands of dollars. Plus he can test for things that regular labs cannot.
Finally, I have to add.... all the various talks we share on Lymenet about parasites, heavy metal toxicity, KPU, detoxification, EMFs, dental issues, etc. (the list goes on) etc..... it is Dr. K who put all of these pieces of the puzzle together decades ago. We all talk about it now as if it's common knowledge. Well it was his genius that pulled these pieces together. He has worked tirelessly at educating doctors across the globe on the importance of addressing all of these factors. Plus he is very generous with what he publishes as far as protocols, etc. The amount of detail he includes is amazing....enough that patients can go back to their doctors and just about follow instructions step by step.
Most of us on Lymenet would not know of all of these different (seemingly unrelated) components if it wasn't for GiGi's valuable posting. The dedication she has shown all these years in trying to introduce sick people to things that may help them is pretty amazing.....especially given all the resistance and scorn she has received all these years. (You know the famous saying about how All Truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed, Second it is violently opposed, Third it is accepted as self evident). I feel this summarizes what GiGi has experienced first hand because of her posting. I don't know many people who would be willing to keep forging ahead. But her passion is to help people, and educate them on what she has learned (most of it first-hand with Dr. K), so she stays on.
Without a doubt GiGi has been the most knowledgeable and helpful poster on this board, to me personally. It was her posts that opened my eyes to things for which I had no clue, and brought me to Dr. K and his treatments. I have been battling this monster for almost 20 years and was going downhill very badly. One of my biggest problems was parasites....which NO DOC even considers. I honestly don't think I would have lived much longer had I not found my way to Dr. K. For this I cannot thank GiGi enough. Grateful does not even come close.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
I have not been on lymenet for a very long time, but I can see that very little has changed. There are still arguments going on. Weirdly I find them on the threads where Gigi posts.
Let's get over the arguing. Gigi has some info and others ask questions. No reaons for anyone to get huffy or rude. No reason to tell someone to do their own research. No reason to apologize to Gigi. (ex; razzle)
We seem to forget that we are here to ask questions and pass on information. Not everyone is able to do a lot of research and rely on others to do it for them. Yet, each person is responsible for making their own decisions.
Have I gotten info from Gigi and used it? Sure. Am I happy about how it worked out--NO! But I am the one who made the decision.
(So, Gigi is not God. Dr. K is not God. I have one God--my Father in heaven.)
What works for one person may or may not work for another. Insisting one way is the only way or the best way benefits no one, but simply stirs up controversy.
Play nice or don't post.
Lee
[ 04-22-2013, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Lee ]
-------------------- "The race has already been won." Posts: 74 | From midwest | Registered: Dec 2009
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Tammy N.
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I'm guessing you are referring to my post when you say GiGi is not God, Dr. K is not God (??). If it was my post you had in mind when saying that.....well, I do not place anyone on par with God. What you picked up on is my gratitude. For these last few months, I've been repeating to my husband how grateful I am to have finally found a path at long last that is leading me to wellness (it just happens to be thru GiGi that I found my way). As I was typing my post above, I felt moved to put my gratitude into words. That's all.
Chaps and I are friends. I was sharing with him my first-hand experiences. I think a lot of people have an impression about Dr. K and costs, so I wanted to share my thoughts and experiences.
I agree we should all play nice. I never want anyone to feel offended or angered by my posts. I have such respect for Lymenet and everyone who posts here.
Have a good day everyone. I'm off to doctor's appointment.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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I had no poster in mind when I wrote my post--just noticed the overall negativity by a lot of people on this thread.
I am now leaving lymenet for another much needed break from the negativity.
Be well.
Lee
[ 04-22-2013, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Lee ]
-------------------- "The race has already been won." Posts: 74 | From midwest | Registered: Dec 2009
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GiGi
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I just had a call from an 84 year old gentleman --his voice sounded like that of a 45 year old -- and he told me that he got rid of Lyme with MMS after one year of using a similar protocol as I have been posting.
He had lost all symptoms after doing it one year, but stayed on the program for another year. Because of his age, he is now taking a few drops twice a week to prevent any infection of any kind. He sounded and is fit as a fiddle. His wife also had Lyme and parasites (microscopic size) and did the identical protocol and is totally well.
Take care.
P.S. Thanking Tammy for her efforts to defend Dr. K. The only thing I can add is that I don't know of any other doctor who treats so many for free, including dogs and horses. For many years, any treatment, such as Neural Therapy and others, material, homeopathics specifically prepared for the individual, etc. -- all was charged within the 2/3rd hourly fee compared to other doctors, and not a penny extra.
And now I am done with wasting time, but quietly wondering where the forum leaders are that tolerate such an outburst of insults toward a doctor who has done the utmost for the Lyme world and still puts his license on the line every day.
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karenl
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Gigi,
you have helped so many of us. I thank you (and another lady on lymenet) every morning again when I wake up.
Especially I thank you for the mms information, great stuff and so easy to tolerate. I would not have known about it without your posts.
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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posted
I followed Gigi's suggestion for a doctor, and am finally on the road to recovery after five years no hope and hospitals. Prior to that i was misdiagnosed by one LLMD, then treated by two others which resulted in severe liver disease! I ask my doctor about remedies that Gigi recommends and many help tremendously, such as MMS...
I grateful that she is a source of the latest information for sick people with few options.... Antibiotics are not for everyone and i will have damaged organs forever as result... That's my experience. And by the way MMS Works!!!
Posts: 116 | From California | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
i must be a genious too - because i figured the most stuff out that dr.k figured out on my own without thinking too much about it. sadly it has not been a game changer for me. the only thing i didnt try yet is to push through the KPU protocol.
but let me get to the point. ART can be a useful tool. for example for me dopamine and vitamin D deficiency was true... still didnt improve much when i did supplements for it. then i tryed a custom protocol by an ART practitioner. it was OK but i did not see enough improvement for the cost. i think the most benefits were from some anti inflammatory effects of the herbs. same for the later "real dr.k cocktail"
it does not seem to work for me.
cheers,
indica440
Posts: 141 | From cali | Registered: Nov 2012
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GiGi
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posted
Indica, if you have a problem with KPU, your chances for detoxing are very small. With an incomplete mineral base, it just can't quite happen. You may want to look into that and correct KPU.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
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Gigi,
Do you ever take breaks from MMS for a day or two. For those who work it might not be possible to do every single day.
My fellow teacher and lyme sufferer who wants to do the MMS baby bottle method is finding it very hard as she has to eat at a certain time which interferes or if she takes the kids on a field trip etc.
I suppose interrupting it for a few days might be necessary for some??? I can't imagine pulling out the MMS and shot glass during church--LOL.
Hker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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[ 04-25-2013, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: lymewarrior03 ]
Posts: 661 | From NY | Registered: May 2003
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GiGi
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Hiker, That's exactly what I do. I have my small bottle in my purse and the tiny glass, and just like most people when they carry their water bottles around, I take a sip of MMS. And if I were in church, God I think would appreciate the good I do for myself. Since I have been taking my little sips, several people I support, are doing the same thing. Most are half my age and all are fully employed leading a busy life. All are doing very well by doing things the "slow" but constant way.
I tell myself: Parasites do not kill themselves, but they form cysts and/or hide in the most inaccessible places, such as the feet, joints, top of head, etc. where they survive doing only as much damage so as not to destroy their home (in my body), but building more and more biofilm blocking circulation and causing more and more stress to major organs and more hiding places.
If I felt unwell by too much toxin release, I might slow down. But that is not the case. So I go on until I no longer test for any parasite, any metals, or for MMS. Energetic testing is my guide.
I hope it will work for your friend when she decides she wants to do it.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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So what are the symptoms of too much toxin release?
Feeling kind of spacey, short term memory is worse than normal, a bit off balance and more tired than normal.
Thoughts?
All the Best, MattH
Posts: 607 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011
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map1131
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Matt, when you kidneys, gall bladder and liver are screaming and you feel very toxic from head to toe.....that's a toxic overload.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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hiker53
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Matt.
I am not using MMS right now, but yesterday I could tell I was releasing and removing toxins of some sort--felt off balance, legs very weak, tired, and sensitive to stimuli--such as noises. Also my ear pressure increases and I sweat a lot.
Sometimes silicea reduces the symptoms if it is a toxic chemical. Zeolite and Pekana products reduce the symptoms if it is a metal.
Today I am much better--who knows why.
I think everyone experiences detox symptoms in different manners.
Of course a toxic drug or supplement could cause those symptoms as well.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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Matt, Have been wondering about the different therapies you seem to be doing at the same time; Ozone, Klinghardt Cocktail, MMS, each one of them having lasting effect the body needs to deal with. Some of them may negate the effects of MMS -- I do not know the total ingredients of your cocktail.
All work with different frequencies, which is what it really comes down to and what we feel. We are an electric body.
Pam said it right. If our body cannot keep up, it starts to backfire and sets us back. I never believed in herxheimers or speeding things up --- it simply does not work -- our body is not built to work well in this way.
In general, I tested myself (with tensor) this AM and I am now testing for viruses. This coincides with Dr. K.'s comments about starting with the largest (parasites) followed by fungi, bacteria and then the smallest - viruses. The Babuschka Principle I posted about many months ago. MMS still tests as an anti-med and so I will continue with it. I also test for Viressence, a super antiviral combi. But since MMS treats all, will stick with it.
Later today I will get a colonic, and it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. I have great respect for Ascaris and the talked-about 200,000 eggs right around Full Moon!
Best to all.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
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MMS does indeed kill pathogens. Here is post that explains that it kills pathogens and also a few brain cells. This is from a MD who is into alternative therapies and she presents a different side to MMS.
" What is more, our brains have a high oxygen demand, and thus are particularly sensitive to oxidative damage. So it doesn't come as a surprise that our mind is often the canary in the coal mine.
We often notice our body's first inflammatory effects through brain fog, memory problems, and insomnia.
Hypochlorous acid has the potential to be extremely neurotoxic to our brains, where it literally oxidizes certain lipids and proteins, preventing them from performing their functions and contributing to neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease and Multiple Sclerosis."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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GiGi
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My concern in general is that any remaining candida easily acquired and multiplied by abx or other exposure may look like Lyme Disease continued.
I remember from years ago that no reaction is as miserable as candida die-off -- there is simply none like it. It becomes worse when candida persists causing other painful problems to surface that are then misinterpreted and treated incorrectly.
Check out my post on "All About Candida" which receives similar negatives as I usually do with almost anything that I say that is against the norm.
I contacted www.candidadr.com and received this message this morning:
"Thank You so much for contacting us. MMS will not interfere the Candida program, however, Dr. Humiston doesn't recommends long term use of MMS. He has found that it (MMS gg) is very effective in treating viral and bacterial infections, but he has not found it to be effective in treating Candida.
Dr. Humiston recommends using the Candida program by itself so that you can more clearly see the full effects of this program. Afterwards you can try other supplements ans see their individual benefits.
You can schedule an appointment or a phone consultation with Dr. Humiston by calling his clinic. They will be more than happy to assist you. Center for Health and Well Being, 3636 5th ave. San Diego, CA. 92103. (619) 814-5500.
Please if you have any more questions or concern don't hesitate to contact us."
These comments agree with comments by A. Kalcker from lectures/YouTubes/interviews about MMS: MMS works on some fungi, but not all. So in order to get positive results from damaging candida, one has to use different methods. If Dr. Humiston has treated more than a thousand people for Candida, I believe in what he says.
I still believe in the integrity of people - I have eyes and ears and am not easily stopped by lists of negatives from naysayers.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
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Gigi,
I don't think that people raising questions or asking for more verification or research makes someone a naysayer.
You give a lot of great information as do a lot of people around me. Most of us do not go on one person's testimonial. I certianly believe that you think MMS is helping you. (You certainly felt strongly about the bionic 880and Dr.W, as I recall, but changed your mind about that doctor's protocol later.)
I don't necessarily believe testimonials put out on the websites of people/companies that sell products or make a montary gain from them.
When others here on lymenet step up and say they have used the candida protocol succesfully that you posted on another thread, then I think you will have more positive feedack.
When more people step up and say that MMS has been successful (on this site) like Bob did than more people may take a chance.
I would like to hear from more people who have used the baby bottle method of MMS for awhile or have completed the protocol before I would make a decision (besides the fact I energetically do not test well for it right now).
I made a huge mistake with several other protocols that people said worked, because I did not wait long enough to see if they really worked. Testimony from someone who is still in the process of doing the protocol,even if they think it is helping now, is not enough for me.
That does not make me a naysayer. That makes me cautious.
I appreciate all of the information you give. Just because I present another MD's viewpoint, does not mean my eyes and ears are not open. This is not about being negative towards you. Please do not take it personally.
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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Hiker, There is a huge difference between people that respond and people that respond. Some are downright insulting to me, some I totally understand and appreciate. Everyone has to do their own research. All I can report is what I have been told by the people whom I trust.
Just read some of the garbage that was written in response to my various postings. I no longer read it because it is irrational and not worth my time. Some of what you personally said is included in that. And some of what you personally write is not based on facts and not on the truth. That includes your comments about the Bionic. I use the Bionic to this very day and love it as much as I did on day one.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
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I am glad you like the bionic--I was referring to Dr. W and his protocol that you did not like. I believe you changed your mind about him and the short time in which he felt he could cure Lyme. I kinow there is a good biophoton thread going on right now---perhaps you could lend your expertise there (that is a honest statement, not sarcasm)
"Everyone has to do their own research"
I could not agree more with your statement, Gigi. I am doing research and when my research does not agree with yours, I think we will just have to "agree to disagree."
I am not trying to be rude to you. I have looked through all of my posts on this thread and cannot find one that is rude to you. I may present a different viewpoint, but I have done so politely.
I am asking for more people on this site who have used MMS in the baby protocol way to step forward and respond.
I do not believe everything Jim Humble has said about MMS. For example, he believes it kills candida. I don't believe that and neither does the MD you mentioned on your candida thread.
Again, Gigi this is not personal. Just because I don't agree or I ask for more information, does not mean I am being rude to you.
Hiker53 edited again for spelling errors
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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CD57
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Anyone have any idea about my experience with MMS:
Took for ~3 months. At first it produced horrendous crying herxes, even at work, then I would feel better. Those went away eventually but none of my other symptoms (CNS) seemed to be affected. I stopped using it after awhile because it absolutely made me retch -- oh! the smell drove everyone around me nuts! -- and seemed to have no effect whatsoever and I still had my same symptoms.
I wonder if it (MMS) gets broken down in the stomach and thus can't get to serious invaders in the CNS?
Re the Dr K thing -- I think he has extremely valuable info and would love to see him myself. However, I do have one objection to him and that is that he seems to announce a serious condition that impedes our health (KPU, etc) and then suddently has a very expensive supplement for just that condition. That makes me a bit suspicious.
Has anyone here truly seen a turnaround in their health by addressing KPU (maybe taking Dr K's Core product)?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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hiker53
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CD57,
How much MMS were you taking per day? Did you use the baby bottle method outined by Gigi.
Thank you for your feedback.
I did take the Core minerals from Biopure (Dr. K) when I was releasing a lot of metals. Because of all of my symptoms I cannot say if it helped or not. Energetically I tested well for it and took it until I did not test well for it anymore. I do not know if I have KPU or not--just assumed I would need minerals if I was letting go of metals.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
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CD57, I have no opinion about your results with MMS. As I have suggested here so many times, please read the book and listen to the many reports that are available on the net as well as a number of different MMS forums where you can ask all the questions and get answers. I spend many hours doing just that.
Dr. K. told me the first year I saw him that this is a disease where the patient has to participate. There is no free ride, because there was hardly a book written about anything pertaining to Lyme and especially not about the other parts of the disease --- the hidden infections and causes. In fact, he gave me chores to do even though I was totally "out of it" at that time, and couldn't find the key on a keyboard or any of the rest.
I can answer your questions about KPU. I did not test for KPU for a long time, and only recently found I needed to correct it. I was repeatedly tested for KPU with ART by several of the best testers and I did not need it.
Sometimes it is a genetic problem, sometimes it is Lyme induced and with me I am sure it happened because somewhere I suffered from severe problems due to EMF and possible remaining metal toxicity. Sometimes problems arise due to stress. I had considerable stress burying my husband not too long ago.
KPU was known in Europe years ago, as HPU. A v famous professor in Canada treated it for years under a different name using different products.
Similar supplements as CORE treating KPU are available in Europe because that is where KPU was recognized many years ago. Books were written about it and the supplement to correct KPU is also available there. Just as expensive. To this day, the lab test for KPU is not available in this country, but has to be shipped overthere. Dr. K. developed the CORE which covers KPU much better than the one available in Europe. It is especially manufactured for KPU and that costs more than if you were to purchase a run-of-the-mill supplement. It costs more to put the ingredients in CORE together separately. I tried it. Dr. K. worked on designing CORE for a couple of years. He applied the knowledge gained by treating many different patients as well as the info he gains from all the ART practitioners in Europe who in turn deal with many patients.
I can only assume that you have not eliminated or reduced other exposures (bad emotional environment, mold, toxic metals and chemicals, EMF, geopathic stress in sleeping place, etc. etc.
I am amazed at how suspicious people are. I count myself lucky that I learned about the KPU problem because I had huge accumulations of toxic metals and am still detoxing right now with MMS.
It is not only a matter of how much MMS one is taking -it is also a matter of doing it the right way. The books and websites, and interview YouTubes explain most of what needs so be known.
If you have a solid parasite problem, have you seen the parasite protocol that is used alongside MMS that I have mentioned before. Sometimes other products are needed. Go to Genesis website and check it out. You may be surprised that one thing alone cannot always accomplish everything. Look at the Kerri Rivera protocol for Autistic children. They have every problem and co-infection most [eople on LN have. Check what she uses. Have a look at her protocol on MMS Autism. Look at how important minerals are in her protocol. I posted about Quinton.
Sorry this is so long =
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
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Energetic testing is only good for the Here and Now. It does not tell the future needs. That is why it is best to at least learn some method of testing.
To stop something as important as CORE because it does not test on a certain day is foolish. I know a lot of people who revamp their whole program in that manner. It is not the right way to do it.
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hiker53
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Gigi,
I see you are slamming me again in a subtle fashion and making an assumption that I quit Core because it did not test well on a certain day. I certainly did not quit Core based on one energetic test. I took it for quite a long while and tested for it energetically often--myself and someone qualified would also test me.
I always get someone else qualified in energetic testing to test supplements and potential protocols. If a protocol does not test well for me on one day it might again another day or in another week or another month etc.
For example, I have not tested well for MMS or Lufernunon since I have been looking into both of these products for quite awhile. Since I know I might be biased, I had someone else test me several times over several weeks to be sure. I still do not test well for them. I might in the future.
I have not released metals in some time. If I start releasing metals again, I would certainly use CORE again.
I am leaving this thread for now as it seems you and I cannot get along and there is no reason for us to continue going back and forth--simply a waste of energy in a negative fashion.
Blessings.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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CD57
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Argh Gigi! You seem to take offense so easily. I get really tired of this, although we know you mean well.
I read everything I could get my hands on about MMS, am a serious researcher of my own treatments, as are many on this board. I am a serious participant in my own care, again as are many are this board. Don't assume that we haven't "done our research".
I was relaying my experience with MMS, and that's it.
In my experience, I am always suspicious when someone announces a brand new very expensive proprietary supplement. As someone on this board said, my mind is open, my wallet is closed.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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I posted the anti-MMS article by Dr. Gabriela Segura on a yahoo group to see what people there had to say about it. None other than Jim Humble responded thusly:
Jim Humble writes: I have been noticing a few people for one reason or another have been attempting to debunk MMS. The one overriding characteristics of all these people even this doctor, Gabriela, is the fact that they know very little about chemistry and especially about the chemistry of Chlorine Dioxide. They are extremely interested in proving MMS wrong without any proof, and they seldom will talk to me. THEY HAVE ALL REFUSED TO CHECK OUT MY ACTUAL OPERATIONS. Gabriela has refused to answer direct emails. But the damaging part for them is that they, none of them, have bothered to look up the chemistry of chlorine dioxide, and they certainly have not tried to understand the chemistry.
I begin to wonder if anyone understands this. Gabriela and others who try to debunk MMS have not taken the time to check out one single person who claims to be cured. Nor have they bothered to check the actual chemistry of chlorine dioxide.
I have not listed a great number of references (there are a few) in my following comments as i do not feel that it is necessary. Just plain old everday logic and high school chemistry that most of us had proves my point. However i reference Andreas Kalcker's article giving my same opinions but he has given dozens of references proving Gabriela false.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) is marketed feverishly as a miraculous alternative treatment for AIDS, hepatitis, malaria, herpes, tuberculosis, cancer and many more of mankind�s most feared diseases. The truth is that MMS is a dangerous poison, and as such it has no business whatsoever in the alternative health arena.
Jim Humble responds: She makes the statement that MMS is a dangerous poison. She might have also stated that the FDA has approved of the use of sodium chlorite (same chemical as MMS) for use in foods, on vegetables (and may be used without washing it off), and may be used on meats of all kinds including fish and may be used without washing it off. Does that sound like a dangerous poison? She is trying to make MMS and the chemical chlorine dioxide look bad and I guess she might be successful at that, but it is basically not true. It is a poison like any other non-poisonous chemical in our civilization -- only when used in large quantities. It is one of the most useful chemicals known and is used throughout our civilization. Her statements will scare people from trying it and thus they will continue much suffering when it is not necessary.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Many people do not know that MMS is essentially bleach. It�s very effective for killing bacteria in toilets,
Jim Humble responds: It is not used in household toilets or as household bleach anywhere in the world. It is only used as an industrial bleach but at more than 1200 times the strength of MMS.
Gabriela Segura, MD: but you certainly shouldn�t be swallowing it. The active ingredient in MMS is not a mineral,
Jim Humble responds: She should have learned in high school chemistry that anything that is not animal or vegetable has got to be mineral. The fact is that the active ingredient in MMS is a mineral. But of course Gabriela insists that it is not a mineral. However (sodium chlorite which is MMS in water) is found in various deposits of rock in various parts of the world. The fact is the active ingredient in MMS is a mineral. However the fact is that sometimes it is more convenient to manufacture it, but that doesn�t make it any less a mineral. Check it out on the internet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: but chlorine dioxide (oxygenated chlorine) which is formed from the chemical combination of sodium chlorite and acetic acid (vinegar) or citric acid.
Jim Humble responds: Chlorine dioxide is not considered oxygenated chlorine in the chemical world. Gabriela doesn�t even know how to refer to this chemical), and it is not true that sodium chlorite and acetic or citric acid make any kind of a chemical combination. It would only be right that Gabriela at least learn the chemistry before she begins her criticism.
Gabriela Segura, MD: MMS as a poison does kill intrusive germs in your body, but it would be naive to believe it to be carefully selective in what it kills and destroys,
Jim Humble responds: See my references at the end of this article. I have listed 6 companies that use chlorine dioxide because it is selective and their comments on the selectivity. I have shown where the EPA has written a paragraph about the selectivity of chlorine dioxide in their specifications sheet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: or to think that the damage done has only limited consequences. It is shocking that MMS is recommended so widely, that it is recommended to already weakened individuals AND that it is recommended for long-term use. In truth, the potential long-term and dangerous side effects of regular MMS use should give anyone the shivers.
Jim Humble responds: Does anyone see anything wrong with this last statement? Well, when trying to ruin someone�s reputation you don�t just get to make one unsubstantiated statement after the other. Not only is it unfair but most people can see right through it. You need to back up your statements with logical data or actual facts. Do i need to point it out? There are no facts or substantiation in this statement above ending with, �should give anyone the shivers.�
Gabriela Segura, MD: Before we continue, an important lesson on oxidation and free radicals is needed to help us understand the long-term consequences of the use of MMS1 and its successor MMS2. This information is crucial to see why MMS is NOT an alternative health solution.
Oxygen is an essential element that supports life, but in the wrong place or at the wrong time, oxygen can wreak much havoc on our cells, causing cancer, contributing to cardiovascular disease, degenerative diseases, and aging through a process called oxidation. You have seen the effects of oxidation whenever you have observed an apple turn brown and go bad after being exposed to air, or when you see the flame of a candle.
We use oxygen in order to take electrons from the sugar and fat molecules that we use for fuel. The molecules we wish to keep intact, however, are subject to oxygen�s burning influence and they are at risk of losing electrons as well. The fire from a candle flame aptly illustrates oxidation in which the electrons of the candle wax are ripped off by oxygen in the atmosphere with the resulting, self-perpetuating release of light and heat. As oxygen makes its way through the body, many of its molecules lose an electron. This means that they become chemically unstable and highly reactive ions as free radicals are formed. These unstable metabolic by-products of energy production in cells strive to stabilize by �stealing� a replacement electron from any neighboring molecule, leaving even more damaged molecules in their wake. This is how free radicals in our bodies are produced and cause inflammation, a process that is best known as oxidative stress or oxidative damage. Oxidation can even cause debilitating changes to your DNA.
Jim Humble responds: Although chlorine dioxide is an oxidizer, it does not use oxygen in any way, thus Gabriela once again shows her ignorance of the process. Oxidative stress has to do with oxygen. Chlorine dioxide (MMS) has an oxidation potential (voltage) of .95 volts which is much less than oxygen. Oxygen has an oxidation potential of 1.28 volts. There is nothing in the human body that chlorine dioxide can oxidize given the low concentration that is used by MMS (concentration used in MMS is .016%).
If oxygen was doing the damage that she says, then it would be killing the beneficial bacteria that resides in the stomach and the intestines. But guess what, there are no clinical trials proving that oxygen does damage in the body. It is all conjecture by people like Gabriela. Oxygen travels throughout the body killing pathogens and overcoming inflamation. MMS has an oxidation potential that is the lowest oxidation potential of all the oxidants that are ever in the body. If oxygen doesn't do damage then MMS is much less likely to do damage.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Depending on where this oxidative damage takes place, it can lead to any number of the following diseases: atherosclerosis (plaque in blood vessels), cancer, arthritis, cataracts, neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer�s disease, autoimmune diseases, and many other health problems generally related to aging. Any free radical involving oxygen can be referred to as a Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS). A perfect example of a ROS is hypochlorous acid, which is now also known as Miracle Mineral Solution 2 (MMS2). Keep in mind that the loss of electrons from molecules whose integrity is vital to the structure of our cell membranes, DNA, skin or eyes results in damage and disease. Oxidation is the most toxic force affecting all the molecules of the body; it�s the enemy of youth, the ally of all diseases, and the fundamental mechanism of all injury, all aging, and eventually, of death
Jim Humble responds: [1]. First let me mention that the human body has been generating hypochlorous acid to fight disease and infections for hundreds of thousands of years. It has proven that helping the body with a little extra of this acid is in many cases extremely helpful. Without oxidation you would be dead within minutes. In fact, when you take the poison cyanide that is what happens, cyanide prevents oxidation in your body and it kills you faster than any other poison known. This lady is trying to scare you concerning oxidation but the fact is that it is an absolute necessity in your body. That is what generates your body heat and helps with digestion and every time you move a muscle, oxidation happens to make the muscle work. You would die within minutes if oxygen was not oxidizing the poisons that the operation of you body generates.
Gabriela Segura, MD: By now, you should understand why anti-oxidants are so important. Antioxidants help to counteract or neutralize the free radicals before they can damage our healthy cells by lending a hand (actually, an electron) when stabilization is needed. This is the reason why we are fond of so many antioxidants such as vitamin C, E, carotenoids, resveratrol, taurine, coenzyme Q10, and melatonin, to name but a few.
Jim Humble responds: Any nutrient or chemical can be over done and thus become a poison. All critics go on and on about MMS being a poison, but the fact remains that at .016% strength, MMS doses are not a poison to the body. The fact is many new things continue to be learned and unlearned. Taking antioxidants has been proclaimed as great by many nutritionists. But the amazing fact is, 95% of mankind does not take antioxidants and even more amazing is the fact that there are no official clinical trials using placebos to prove that taking antioxidants is beneficial. Do you take antioxidants? Nutritionists like to sell pills and make a living and perhaps they are correct, but there is no collaborating scientific evidence that they are correct. Again, Gabriela is just giving us her opinion.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Each person is exposed to oxidants and each one of us has a variety of antioxidant defenses and DNA repair ability. These factors together determine the extent of oxidant-induced DNA damage in each of us, and the levels of such damage may well contribute to cancer risk, especially in tissues where other changes may have already occurred. But keep in mind that DNA protection is essential not only to guard us from cancer, but also because in all of our cells, DNA carries our ancestral identity and the instructions and information that maintain our bodies. We might also wonder what other special properties could be lying dormant in our DNA.
But for now, let�s get back to MMS1, which is basically the combination of sodium chlorite and acetic acid (vinegar) or citric acid which together form chlorine dioxide (oxygenated chlorine)
Jim Humble responds: Wrong again! That isn�t what makes chlorine dioxide. When acid is added to sodium chlorite, the pH is brought downwards to an acidic condition (to about 4.8 ) which then causes the sodium chlorite to become unstable and the sodium atoms begin to come losoe from their attraction to the chlorine dioxide, leaving fully functional chlorine dioxide molecules. Any acid will do this, but the fact is just plain water will do it as well, so an acid is not necessary to form chlorine dioxide.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The toxic effects of chlorine dioxide are associated with those of sodium chlorite � a very strong oxidant that at a dose of 10-15 grams is considered to be lethal. Even small amounts of about 1 gram can be expected to cause nausea and vomiting. Now get this: the MMS protocol suggests that taking up to 60 drops per day is within reason. There are 20 drops in one gram, which means that the protocol may call for the ingestion of 3 grams or more of what amounts to household bleach. This is three times the amount required to produce nausea and vomiting and 20% of the amount required to kill you [2]. Even though we are told that nausea and diarrhea are positive signs of detoxification when following the MMS protocol, you can be sure that they are actually the way our body tells us that we�ve just been poisoned. If you happen to vomit, then be reassured that it might have saved your life by way of avoiding a lethal overdose of MMS! There are in fact several testimonials of negative side effects and at least one death related to MMS which you can easily find on the internet
Jim Humble responds: [2]. Well, let�s see what she got wrong this time. A drop of MMS is only 22.4% sodium chlorite so 60 drops which is supposed to be 3 grams of sodium chlorite according to Gabriela is actually 22.4% times 3 grams which equals only .67 grams. So it�s not really 3 grams after all. But I said that years ago. It��s been more than 2 years since I suggested that a 60 drops dose was possible and even then I didn�t recommend it. Normally we only take 3 drop doses nowadays. The death that Gabriela would like to report as related to MMS was never related except in minds like Gabriela. They will do anything to substantiate that thing that proves their contention, be it true or not. But let me mention this: more than 900,000 people died last year after taking a standard medical drug. They didn�t die from the disease; they died after taking the drug from reactions caused by the drug. Out of 10 million users of MMS, there are no reported deaths that were substantiated in any way.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The popularity of MMS and its fervent, almost religious marketing involved the claim of curing malaria in tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. Sounds very noble indeed, but this is only natural as MMS� sodium chlorite is well known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells � meaning that red blood cells are ruptured and destroyed. It is actually by killing red blood cells that the malaria parasite is killed since it invades red blood cells. MMS probably kills the parasite and the red blood cells. In fact, MMS consumers may develop anemia.
Jim Humble responds: Do you see? She has substantiated nothing here. She has just made a bunch of claims. She at least says �probably� and �may,� most of my critics don�t bother to say probably, they just state it as a fact. MMS is not known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells. There is no such evidence. MMS consumers do not develop anemia, as out of millions of people who have used it, none have reported anemia. Patents issued in 1982 and in 1990 and in 1992 prove that MMS (chlorine dioxide) does not cause hemolysis in red blood cells as the chlorine dioxide is used to clean the red blood cells of various impurities in these patents. The fact is, hemolysis in red blood cells and anemia caused by MMS (chlorine dioxide) is an invention of this lady, Dr. Gabriela, as this data is not found anywhere in the literature. Chlorine dioxide (MMS) has been used to clean red blood cells of pathogens and other poisons for more than 28 years in special hospitals and trial cases. The following patents you can read proving this fact and there are about 12 more patents based on Chlorine dioxide cleaning the blood without any biological damage. Patent numbers5,185,371 and 5,211,912 and 4,971,760 and 4,944,920.
But wait a minute, now Gabriela says yes to MMS killling malaria. So I'll tell you this, anyone who has ever had malaria would 1000 times rather have anemia than malaria. So if we were to listen to her, we could at least use it for killing malaria. And anemia is easy to overcome.
Gabriela Segura, MD: MMS really does sound like a dangerous allopathic drug, similar to antibiotics or chemotherapy. Why is it that we don�t see many efforts to remove this poison from the market when in recent times there has been a push to remove healthy vitamins and antioxidants by agencies like the FDA and Codex? MMS is more of a killer than antibiotics and has the potential to kill all kinds of microbes including viruses. Such a killer weapon has other consequences for your body, and killer therapies should never be the first course of action when dealing with disease. They should never be an option when we are able to take control of our health through diet and appropriate, real alternative health therapies.
Jim Humble responds: Well, i agree with her about health therapies, but of the other things she says, are again,unsubstantiated. Do you see, when a critic such as Gabriela makes many dumb and unsubstantiated accusations, I shouldn't have to prove they are false, it is her job to prove they are correct and she has never done that.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Let us review some safety data sheets of MMS ingredients: Chlorine dioxide is a strong oxidant, and as such it reacts violently with combustible materials, mercury, ammonia, sulphur and many organic compounds [3]. Sodium chlorite is a strong irritant of the skin, eyes, and respiratory tract; a strong oxidizer that promotes combustion; concentrated solutions may be corrosive to the skin and eyes; mild hemolytic anemia and increased methemoglobin in males was observed in animal feeding studies [4]. Acute health effects of chlorine dioxide: ingestion is not a normal route of exposure (except thanks to MMS!), harmful if swallowed, can cause irritation to mouth, esophagus, stomach, and mucous membranes (hence, the diarrhea, nausea and vomiting!). Eye contact: contact causes redness, irritation, pain, blurred vision, tearing, corneal injury and burns. Inhalation: harmful if inhaled, coughing, headaches, labored breathing, nausea, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema. Chronic health effects: may have effects on lungs, resulting in chronic bronchitis and permanent lung damage [5]. In short, MMS should NEVER be a health treatment, alternative or otherwise!
Jim Humble responds: There she goes again. All these studies were with chlorine dioxide that was thousands of times stronger than that used in MMS. Consider that MMS is never used even as strong as sprinkling table salt on you food. Low level chlorine dioxide is so effective that last month a case of very bad bronchitis was overcome while the person affected continued to smoke cigarettes. Consider, all chemicals are dangerous in large quantities, and all medical drugs are based on using small quantities of very dangerous chemicals, and you will use about 2 mg of salt on your salad tonight, and one pound of salt taken at one time will kill you. The exactly same thing is true of MMS. So what! We have to use each chemical within its limits.
Actually it really is somewhat irritating when a person claiming to be a doctor just starts talking, telling people she is a doctor, when she says nothing logical that a real doctor would say. Looking immediately above, the safety data sheet that Gabriela is talking about referes to a 10% gas of chlorine dioxide. Please look at that figure of 10%. That is because the MMS strength is .016% instead of the 10% that Gabriela is talking about. Can you see the difference in the strength? MMS is 1250 times weaker in strength than the Chlorine dioxide that Gabriela is talking about.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Now here is where things get even more interesting. Enter MMS2, which works more subtly and therefore more dangerously than its predecessor.
MMS2 is basically calcium hypochlorite, which is a chemical compound widely used for water treatment and as a bleaching and disinfecting agent (bleaching powder). This one is indeed a mineral, (YES BUT NO MORE OF A MINERAL THAN MMS1) but a mineral that reacts to produce hypochlorous acid when ingested. Hypochlorous acid (HOCl), which is a combination of hydrogen, oxygen, and chlorine, is what some of our white blood cells produce in order to kill bacteria through the well-known process called oxidation. HOCl is a powerful oxidant indeed, and as I mentioned before, it is the perfect example of a hazardous reactive oxygen species (ROS). Just as with MMS1, pathogens can�t develop a resistance to MMS2 and this is related to the powerful free radicals that it liberates.Sound good? Well, not really. MMS2 is meant to create high concentrations of this dangerous oxidative hypochlorous acid in our bodies in order to kill �powerful and incurable� diseases, or so it is claimed. Unfortunately, the amount of HOCl that our body is already capable of producing on its own is dangerous enough. In fact, some of our white blood cells have toxic and damaging effects on our DNA through the formation of hypochlorous acid. What is more, antioxidants are being studied and used successfully to block hypochlorous acid from creating DNA damage Yes, DNA damage! This is dangerous to the extreme!
Jim Humble responds: Again, i hope you recognize opinions. These are Gabriela�s opinions. Do you see references to her data? She makes it sound like data, but there is no such proof on the internet. DNA damage is again Gabriela's opinion. There are no clinical trial proofs of that anywhere on the web.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Another way in which MMS2 can cause damage is through activation of �evil� transcription factors. Free radicals such as hypochlorous acid and other toxins may cause transcription factors to initiate a series of genetic reactions that result in cancer. Transcription factors are proteins that facilitate gene expression � that is, they cause genetic material to do something. A particular transcription factor, NF kappa B, is influenced by free radicals or toxins which usually activate it. Once activated, this transcription factor goes into the nucleus of our cells where our DNA resides and may activate genes that might change a potentially malignant cell into an absolutely malignant cell [8]. Hypochlorous acid (MMS2) activates this infamous NF-kappa B transcription factor, especially in the absence of antioxidants like taurine [11,12]. NF-kappa B has also a crucial role in inflammation, and thus ultimately it induces illness. That MMS2 is promoted as a cure for cancer and many other illnesses is just plain baffling.
Jim Humble responds: This is baffling to Gabriela, but it just happens we have thousands of letters from people who say that they have been what she suggests: Cured. You will note in this paragraph she uses the words may cause, and may activate genes. I am sure you recognize that �may�s� and �might�s� are opinions. And there is no evidence of this data on the internet. May and might simply does not get it, especially in an article where you can hurt hundreds of people by getting the data wrong. Again she copies words and phrases well, but her data does not show up on the internet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: But that�s not all, folks. It gets worse! In fact, hypochlorous acid (MMS2) has the power to chlorinate the building blocks of DNA, breaking the DNA double helix apart and thus interfering with its vital biological functions [13]. By the way, the new airport security scanners can break apart our DNA�s double helix as well [14]. Do we see a pattern here?
Jim Humble responds: Sorry, Gabriela, but hypochlorous acid never clorinates, it is an oxidizer, not a chlorinator. She knows a lot of fancy words, but she does not know the technology science that goes with those words. Chlorination happens when chlorine combines with the item to be chlorinated. Oxidation is what hypochlorous acid does. Oxidation is when the chemical destroys the chemical it oxidizes. Chlorination is combination, and oxidation is destruction. Hypochlorous acid oxidizes (destroys) and cannot chlorinate. Thus, of course, her explanation is totally off base. She has lots of complex explanations but none of it is right. This is just plain chemistry that she doesn�t know. I know how that works. I write this whole paper teaching her chemistry, and then she takes what I write and works at it until she thinks she has proven me wrong, and then i am expected to write again and show her how she is again wrong. After a few times at this I have wound up teaching her the chemistry, but she will never admit being wrong. It wastes my time. This is the only time I will write showing her mistakes. All critics want to continue writing against what I say and I wouldn�t mind if they would use logic and truth, but they never do, they just continue in the same vein, putting lies in at any point that they wish. I won�t carry it further than this letter.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Some claim that hypochlorous acid is hazardous only to intrusive germs, but there are actually studies that have determined that the properties of hypochlorous acid that make it such a potent bug killer agent can damage our bodies by the same mechanism used to destroy the invading pathogenic bugs [15]. One such study could not have a more appropriate name: �Living with a killer: the effects of hypochlorous acid on mammalian cells [15].
Jim Humble responds: Again, the studies didn't prove anything. I hope it is obvious that when you say �may� and �might� you are only saying opinions. If i say that your car might get a flat tire on the way home, i am only giving an opinion.
Gabriela Segura, MD: It has been well documented that there are a variety of disorders tied to the deleterious effects of hypochlorous acid in our bodies including diabetes, obesity, depression, hypertension, gout, kidney failure, and autism, among other conditions [12]. This makes sense in view of our brief review of oxidation: wherever there is oxidative damage, there is disease. What is more, our brains have a high oxygen demand, and thus are particularly sensitive to oxidative damage. So it doesn�t come as a surprise that our mind is often the canary in the coal mine. We often notice our body�s first inflammatory effects through brain fog, memory problems, and insomnia. Hypochlorous acid has the potential to be extremely neurotoxic to our brains, where it literally oxidizes certain lipids and proteins, preventing them from performing their functions and contributing to neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson�s disease, Alzheimer�s disease and Multiple Sclerosis
Jim Humble responds: Sorry, but that is all opinion and no collaborating evidence is available and I do not believe it. So I get to give my opinion once in a while where opinion seems to be the order of the day. This is all conjecture and obviously a desire to destroy a successful chemical that has already saved thousands of lives around the world. That could only be coming from the drug companies through Gabriela. Gabriela offers no proof or even references. She goes on and on with no collaborating evidence.
Gabriela Segura, MD: In addition, hypochlorous acid can be very dangerous in certain settings. Its strong oxidative power makes the chemical very dangerous, because it can become explosive when combined with certain substances. Adding acids to a hypochlorous acid solution will precipitate this process, making the mixture unstable, releasing chlorine gas, and potentially causing an explosive chemical reaction. The compound needs to be handled carefully because it can release dangerous chlorine gas if mixed with seemingly safe household products. Chlorine gas can cause considerable health problems or death, especially in poorly ventilated spaces, which is one reason why it is inadvisable to mix household chemicals like bleach at random.
Jim Humble responds: Yes, that�s true, but so what? Houses burn down every day which is oxidation. Shall we quit building houses or just quit living in them? This chemical is used in millions of swimming pools throughout the world. It is dumped in full strength. No one has been reported killed by it in dozens of years. Gabriela is using what she thinks is superior knowledge to make a chemical that is used throughout this world even by children dangerous.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Further complicating this tragedy, MMS is now being promoted with the use of DMSO. DMSO (Dimethylsulphoxide) is a solvent which enhances the availability and effectiveness of many drugs throughout our bodies, thus potentiating their effects. It has the capacity to distribute a drug deep into our bodies. The worrying thing is that DMSO also very easily crosses the blood-brain barrier. This property is exactly why DMSO is widely used as an effective transporter of certain substances into our brains that may not otherwise cross the mentioned barrier. Even though DMSO by itself is a powerful antioxidant, keep in mind that it has the ability to potentiate and carry a dangerous poison such as MMS1 and MMS2 into the brain. By now, I hope that it is clear why this is a very, very bad idea.
Jim Humble responds: Just the opposite, Gabriela. We have many letters saying their tumor of the brain is gone. So if you are going to give this article out, please include my comments. As she says, they have the right to know.
I have treated thousands of people total in Uganda, Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, and other places, and thousands more by sending people out or over the phone or by email. Many people, like Gabriela, claim that I am somehow egoistic and really want to hurt people. I am now in the city of Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, training people who come here from all over the world to use MMS. As this was written we have 425 ministers of health healing people free of charge in more than 70 different countries.
It is beyond me why these people who attempt to debunk MMS don�t just check out my claims. But none of them have. They go on and on spouting lies that they believe and are never willing to check a single thing I am doing. One would think, that if one is going to write an article that hurts a person�s reputation that he would take the time to check things out, but none have done it so far. They say, we did the research, but I don�t know what that is as their write up proves they don�t know the chemistry, and they have never checked a single claim of someone being cured by MMS.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Please give this article to any MMS consumer. They have the right to know what is going on within their bodies � and DNA � when they take this Trojan Horse!
Jim Humble responds: So let me give the reader one last chance to use their own logic in looking at MMS. MMS is chlorine dioxide. Instead of the approximate 22% strength of chlorine dioxide in the bottle, only three drops are used for the normal MMS standard dose. That three drops is then diluted 675 times making a solution of .016% instead of the 28% that Gabriela wants to talk about. No one in the world has ever taken a 28% dose of MMS that we know about, except one man who tried to commit suicide by taking 10 grams of sodium chlorite. However, he failed to die and completely recovered. There are plenty of medicines that allow the user to use an eye dropper to measure out their dose.
So now we know that the MMS user will be usng a very small weak solution. The strongest solution that anyone ever uses at this time is .018% and that is only for malaria. Now come on, look at some simple logic that Gabriela, an educated doctor, should be able to find out if she doesn�t already know. And that is this: The oxidative voltage of chlorine dioxide is plus .95 volts. And the oxidation voltage of most of the human body (official name is ORP or Oxidation Reduction Potential is plus .090 volts approximately. This is data that is only well known to chlorine dioxide chemists, but they know the data well. It must be used by chemical engineers using chlorine dioxide. Now listen carefully as Gabriela doesn�t seem to be able to comprehend the logic. I, however, am sure you will. Remember your high school science classes? You learned that like charges repel one another and unlike charges attract one another. So, here you have chlorine dioxide with plus .95 volts and the body chemistry with plus .090 volts. Do you see that? They are both positive. What that means is that they will repel one another and that means that they won�t touch one another and thus they will have no effect on one another. Do you see? Chlorine dioxide will run through the body for as long as it is in the body, but it will continue to repel body parts never touching them and thus it will never contact the body and thus will never do damage to the body. In the low concentration of MMS, it simply cannot affect the human body in any way. The only effect is the destruction of pathogens, heavy metal compounds, and poisons in the body that have negative charges. Gabriela cares nothing about truth or lies as she has continuously lied throughout this entire article.
I give you one other point of logic. The skin in the body is about 1/32 of an inch thick and so are the walls of the digestive tract. The skin in a pathogen is about 10,000 times thinner with about 10,000 times less strength than the skin in the body. The pathogen has a negtive charge. That means it will be attracted to the chlorine dioxide instead of repelled. And with a skin that is 10,000 times thinner than the wall of the intestines the chlorine dioxide can blow a hole in it literally in 1/10 second. The thicker walls of the intestines never even feel the chlorine dioxide, as the chlorine dioxide molecules are repelled from it. Well, I hope by now you have seen the poor logic and the harm that Gabriela is causing. She prevents those who believe her from being cured and thus they go on suffering. The paper that Gabriela has written has been passed around the internet by well meaning people also causing harm because one doctor is jealous. However a little jealousy never hurts in most cases, but when it prevents people from becoming well it is done by extremely irresponsible persons caring nothing about who they hurt but just wanting to stop someone they are jealous of. It is actually jealousy to the point of being criminal and I am actually sorry for Gabriela, but more sorry for those she hurts.
When one starts criticising something that can help people they should be very careful of their data. Gabriela is a doctor, or so she claims, and thus she should be very careful of her data because things she say can hurt people.
Letter to Gabriela from Jim Humble: Gabriela, I am just going to test your logic capabilities since your article keeps getting passed around on the internet. That's me, the guy that discovered MMS.
In your article you made some absolute statements so I decided to test your logic. The body uses oxygen to destroy pathogens in the body. I'm sure you have heard that. logic point number 1. Oxygen has a higher oxidation potential than MMS (chlorine dioxide). Logic 2. Oxygen does not destroy most of the useful bacteria in the body even though it is carried to areas where the useful bacteria lives. Logic 3. With a lower oxidation potential than oxygen, MMS cannot destroy more things than oxygen, it can only destroy less things. Logic 4. If oxygen cannot destroy the beneficial bacteria and since MMS has less oxidation strength than oxygen, plus .95 volts as opposed to oxygen's 1.3 volts (approximately), it is only logical that MMS will not be able to destroy the beneficial bacteria either.
Next point of logic: The outer surface of a bacteria is 10,000 times thinner than the walls of the intestines and other walls of other organs of the body. You don't need a lot of clinical trials to determine these points of logic, all you need is the ability to think. I must assume that your knowledge of solutions would tell you that a solution running through the body that is .016% chlorine dioxide when it enters the body is a fairly dilute solution. I must then assume that your logic would tell you that it might be possible for such a dilute solution to destroy part of the outer wall of a bacteria, which is less than 1/10,000 of an inch thick. And at the same time this dilute solution would have no effect on a, for instance, intestinal wall that is 10,000 times thicker than the outer wall of the bacteria. In addition, the scientific fact is that the pathogen has a negative ORP (I assume you know what that is, being a doctor and all) and that the negative ORP of the pathogen will cause it to be attracted to the MMS which is positive.
Final point: Gabriela, I am sure, if you will remember, that your high school science class showed you that like charges repel and unlike charges attract. So chlorine dioxide has a positive .95 volt charge. And most of the cells of all the various tissues and organs of the body also have a positive charge of about .050 volts or so. As a doctor you would know that. So remember the science class. Like charges repel and thus the body parts are going to repel the chlorine dioxide and thus the chlorine dioxide in theory will not touch the body parts as it will be repelled and thus there will be no damage to the body. And guess what, out of 10 million users, no damage reports so far.
Now Gabriela, your article, with very little logical data and no understanding of chemistry, has done much damage. Hundreds if not thousands of people who could have gotten well have not done so as they have believed you. I make no money from the sale of MMS. People like you hate to see someone who is working for mankind and is not receiving and does not expect money for his work. But I will tell you this Gabriela, I am compensated ten thousand times as much as you, a person who operates on people for money, when you already know that with MMS those operations are not necessary.
Jim Humble
The following list of references were listed by Gabriela as proof of her article against MMS that is given above. Most of them prove my contentions so far as I can see.
[1] Sydney Macdonald Baker, Detoxification and Healing. New York: McGraw Hill, 2004. [2] Snake Oil Humbles Nexus Conference, Sott.net [3] Safety data for chlorine dioxide, physchem.ox.ac.uk [4] Sodium chlorite entry on Haz-Map.nlm.nih.gov [5] Chlorine Dioxide Material Safety Data Sheet from Halox Technologies, Inc. (PDF) [6] G�ng�r N, Knaapen AM, Munnia A, Peluso M, Haenen GR, Chiu RK, Godschalk RW, van Schooten FJ. Genotoxic effects of neutrophils and hypochlorous acid. Mutagenesis, Volume 25, Issue 2, 2010, Pages 149-154. [7] Gomez-Mejiba SE, Zhai Z, Gimenez MS, Ashby MT, Chilakapati J, Kitchin K, Mason RP, Ramirez DC. Myeloperoxidase-induced genomic DNA-centered radicals. The Journal of Biological Chemistry, Volume 285, No. 26, 2010, Pages 20062 - 20071. [8] Burt Berkson, M.D., PhD. The Alpha Lipoic Acid Breakthrough, New York: Three Rivers Press, 1998. [9] Ximenes VF, Padovan CZ, Carvalho DA, Fernandes JR. Oxidation of melatonin by taurine chloramine. Journal of Pineal Research, 2010, May 27. [10] Kawai Y, Matsui Y, Kondo H, Morinaga H, Uchida K, Miyoshi N, Nakamura Y, Osawa T. Galloylated catechins as potent inhibitors of hypochlorous acid-induced DNA damage. Chemical Research in Toxicology. Volume 21, Issue 7, 2008, Pages 1317-1495. [11] Schoonbroodt S, Legrand-Poels S, Best-Belpomme M, Piette J. Activation of the NF-kappaB transcription factor in a T-lymphocytic cell line by hypochlorous acid. The Biochemical Journal. Volume 321, 1997 Pages 777-785. [12] Pennathur S., Maitra D., Byun J., Sliskovic I., Abdulhamid I., Saed G. M., Diamond M.P. and Abu-Soud H. M. Potent antioxidative activity of lycopene: A potential role in scavenging hypochlorous acid, Free Radical Biology and Medicine, Volume 49, Issue 2, 2010, Pages 205-213. [13] Pr�tz, W. A. Hypochlorous acid interactions with thiols, nucleotides, DNA and other biological substrates. Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Volume 332, No. 1, 1996, Pages 110-120. [14] How Terahertz Waves Tear Apart DNA, Sott.net [15] Pullar J.M., Vissers M.C., Winterbourn C.C. Living with a killer: the effects of hypochlorous acid on mammalian cells. IUBMB Life, Volume 50, 2000, Pages 259-266. [16] Nusshold C., Kollroser M., K�feler H., Rechberger G., Reicher H., �llen A., Bernhart E., Waltl S., Kratzer I., Hermetter A., Hackl H., Trajanoski Z., Hrzenjak A., Malle E. and Sattler W. Hypochlorite modification of sphingomyelin generates chlorinated lipid species that induce apoptosis and proteome alterations in dopaminergic PC12 neurons in vitro, Free Radical Biology and Medicine, Volume 48, Issue 12, 2010, Pages 1588-1600. [17] What is Hypochlorous Acid?, wiseGEEK.com [18] A New Way to Administer MMS, mms-articles.com [19] Dr. Morton Walker. DMSO Nature's Healer. New York: Avery, 1993.
The following articles show that MMS Chlorine Dioxide is selective in what it oxidizes:
Chlorine dioxide as an oxidizer As an oxidizer chlorine dioxide is very selective. It has this ability due to unique one-electron exchange mechanisms. Chlorine dioxide attacks the electron-rich centers of organic molecules. One electron is transferred and chlorine dioxide is reduced to chlorite (ClO2- ). http://www2.dupont.com/Chlorine_Dioxide/en_US/assets/downloads/TasteandOdorControl.pdf
Easy Solution Chlorine dioxide�s selective chemistry allows it to instantaneously react with oxidizable material to kill algae and bacteria that produce bad taste and odors in water. Chlorine dioxide is also excellent at destroying odor-causing biofilms that are not removed by chlorine treatment, and attach to piping and basins.
Figure 2: chlorine dioxide is more selective as an oxidizer than chlorine. While dosing the same concentrations, the residual concentration of chlorine dioxide is much higher with heavy pollution than the residual concentration of chlorine. By comparing the oxidation strength and oxidation capacity of different disinfectants, one can conclude that chlorine dioxide is effective at low concentrations. Chlorine dioxide is not as reactive as ozone or chlorine and it only reacts with sulphuric substances, amines and some other reactive organic substances. In comparison to chlorine and ozone, less chlorine dioxide is required to obtain an active residual disinfectant. It can also be used when a large amount of organic matter is present.
Chlorine dioxide is a powerful, selective biocide. First discovered in 1811, its anti-microbial properties have been known since about 1900. Chlorine dioxide has been used in the United States to disinfect public drinking water for more than 60 years. It also is used for a variety of sterilization, disinfection and decontamination purposes in the food, beverage and medical device industries.
Chlorine dioxide has attractive human- and ecological-toxicity profiles. Exposure does not pose chronic adverse health effects (e.g., cancer) nor does chlorine dioxide persist in the environment.
Chlorine dioxide is a relatively small, volatile and highly energetic molecule. Chlorine dioxide is almost never used commercially as a gas at high concentrations because of its instability; rather, it is generated at the point of use.
Chlorine dioxide gas has an intense greenish yellow color with a distinctive odor similar to that of chlorine. Chlorine dioxide is highly soluble in water but, unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide does not react with water. It exists in aqueous solution as a dissolved gas.
Chlorine dioxide functions as a highly selective oxidant owing to unique, one-electron transfer mechanisms, wherein it attacks electron-rich centers in organic molecules and, in the process, is reduced to chlorite ion.
Because chlorine dioxide oxidizes but does not chlorinate, chlorinated organic by-products (e.g., THM, HAA, dioxins, furans) typically are not produced. Neither does chlorine dioxide produce appreciable amounts of aldehydes, ketones, ketoacids nor other problematic compounds associated with oxidation of organic matter by other, less selective means.
High-purity chlorine dioxide is less destructive/corrosive than chlorine to most materials, including stainless steel. In the presence of UV light, chlorine dioxide rapidly decomposes to form chlorine, oxygen and a variety of transient intermediate oxychlorine compounds which may be highly corrosive.
Chlorine dioxide's unique properties permit it to be more effective than current oxidizing and non-oxidizing biocide technologies. Among its outstanding characteristics: (a) it remains a dissolved gas in water, thereby maintaining its biocidal activity under varied operating conditions, (b) it is effective over a wide pH range (4-10), remaining effective even where there are incoming stock pH swings, (c) it reacts selectively with organic compounds and does not form chlorinated organics (chloroform, bromoform, dioxins or trihalomethanes), all of which are coming under increasing regulatory pressure, (d) it reacts almost instantaneously to quickly provide effective biocidal control or remove undesirable contaminants, (e) at recommended use levels it does not create toxic by-products harmful to wildlife or the environment.
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Another lengthy response to the Segura article by Andreas Kalcker:
My name is Andreas Ludwig Kalcker and after reading this article i had no choice than to answer....i am researching 2 years from now on ClO2 related health issues on scientific bases, and definitively this Article is equal to: "The earth is Flat syndrome......"
Enjoy.
Dr. Segura quote: "Many people do not know that MMS is essentially bleach"
Andreas Kalcker: Is a wrong Statement and lack of chemical knowlege! It is used to potabilize drinking water without cancerous trihalomethanes for more than 100 years now: scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-08142001-093734/unrestricted/thesis.pdf
Dr. Segura quote: "In truth, the potential long-term and dangerous side effects of regular MMS use should give anyone the shivers"
Andreas Kalcker: What long term side effects? ClO2 disintegrates when oxidizing to oxygen and salt !!!! nothing else.
Dr. Segura quote: "Before we continue, an important lesson on oxidation and free radicals is needed,Oxygen is an essential element that supports life, but in the wrong place or at the wrong time, oxygen can wreak much havoc on our cells, causing cancer, contributing to cardiovascular disease, degenerative diseases, and aging through a process called oxidation.You have seen the effects of oxidation whenever you have observed an apple turn brown and go bad after being exposed to air, or when you see the flame of a candle."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again !!!:
The free radicals theory is a postulate from Denham Harman in 1958 !!! The oxidative capacity of oxygen is 1,3V and the mitocondria can handle this very good, but Ozone has an oxidative potential of 2,07V and is too strong and would do harm. Clo2 has only 0.97V and Cannot harm our cells due to too low electron potential. Oxidative stress is proven to elongate lifespan ! Free radicals = electric potential, the voltage counts! 12V is not the same as 220V The free-radical theory of aging (FRTA) states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time. A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell. While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive. For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage.
Dr. Segura quote: "Oxidation can even cause debilitating changes to your DNA."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again: The scientific proof :
Glucose Restriction Extends Caenorhabditis elogans Life Span, by Inducing Mitochondrial Respiration and Increasing Oxidative Stress Tim J. Schulz 1, 2, Kim Zarse 1, Anja Voigt 1, 2, Nadine Urban 1, Marc Birringer 1 and Michael Ristow 1, 2,
1. Department of Human Nutrition, Institute of Nutrition, University of Jena, D-07743 Jena, Germany 2. German Institute of Human Nutrition Potsdam-Rehbr�cke, D-14558 Nuthetal, Germany
Corresponding author
� Summary � Increasing cellular glucose uptake is a fundamental concept in treatment of type 2 diabetes, whereas nutritive calorie restriction increases life expectancy. We show here that increased glucose availability decreasesCaenorhabditis eleganslife span, while impaired glucose metabolism extends life expectancy by inducing mitochondrial respiration. The histone deacetylase Sir2.1 is found here to be dispensable for this phenotype, whereas disruption ofaak-2, a homolog of AMP-dependent kinase (AMPK), abolishes extension of life span due to impaired glycolysis. Reduced glucose availability promotes formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS), induces catalase activity, and increases oxidative stress resistance and survival rates, altogether providing direct evidence for a hitherto hypothetical concept named mitochondrial hormesis or �mitohormesis.� Accordingly, treatment of nematodes with different antioxidants and vitamins prevents extension of life span. In summary, these data indicate that glucose restriction promotes mitochondrial metabolism, causing increased ROS formation and cumulating in hormetic extension of life span, questioning current treatments of type 2 diabetes as well as the widespread use of antioxidant supplements.
Dr. Segura quote: "By now, you should understand why anti-oxidants are so important,...This is the reason why we are fond of so many antioxidants such as vitamin C, E, carotenoids, resveratrol, taurine, coenzyme Q10, and melatonin, to name but a few."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again: The scientific proof: Almost 70 clinical trials with more than 230,000 participants have shattered the supposed benefits of antioxidant supplements. A review published in the journal 'The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)' reveals that not only beneficial, but that beta-caroteneand vitamins A and E slightly increase the risk of mortality." Our findings contradict the claim that antioxidants improve health. Given that between 10% and 20% of the adult population in North America and Europe consume the products evaluated, the public health consequences may be substantial ", say the authors, from the Hospital of Copenhagen (Denmark).
More links (spanish): doctorperu.com/articulo-510-consumir-suplementos-antioxidantes-resulta-nocivo-para-la-salud.php?id=29546
Dr. Segura quote: "The toxic effects of chlorine dioxide are associated with those of sodium chlorite - a very strong oxidant that at a dose of 10-15 grams is considered to be lethal.."
Andreas Kalcker: 10-15 grams of a lightweight gas is really a lot!!!! 70 grams of tablesalt are deadly too !!! the scientific DATA:
Controlled clinical evaluations of chlorine dioxide, chlorite and chlorate in man. Lubbers JR, Chauan S, Bianchine JR.
To assess the relative safety of chronically administered chlorine water disinfectants in man, a controlled study was undertaken. The clinical evaluation was conducted in the three phases common to investigational drug studies. Phase I, a rising dose tolerance investigation, examined the acute effects of progressively increasing single doses of chlorine disinfectants to normal healthy adult male volunteers. Phase II considered the impact on normal subjects of daily ingestion of the disinfectants at a concentration of 5 mg/l. for twelve consecutive weeks. Persons with a low level of glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase may be expected to be especially susceptible to oxidative stress; therefore, in Phase III, chlorite at a concentration of 5 mg/l. was administered daily for twelve consecutive weeks to a small group of potentially at-risk glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase-deficient subjects. Physiological impact was assessed by evaluation of a battery of qualitative and quantitative tests. The three phases of this controlled double-blind clinical evaluation of chlorine dioxide and its potential metabolites in human male volunteer subjects were completed uneventfully. There were no obvious undesirable clinical sequellae noted by any of the participating subjects or by the observing medical team. In several cases, statistically significant trends in certain biochemical or physiological parameters were associated with treatment; however, none of these trends was judged to have physiological consequence. One cannot rule out the possibility that, over a longer treatment period, these trends might indeed achieve proportions of clinical importance. However, by the absence of detrimental physiological responses within the limits of the study, the relative safety of oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide and its metabolites, chlorite and chlorate, was demonstrated.
Dr. Segura quote: "The popularity of MMS and its fervent, almost religious marketing involved the claim of curing malaria in tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. Sounds very noble indeed, but this is only natural as MMS� sodium chlorite is well known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells - meaning that red blood cells are ruptured and destroyed. It is actually by killing red blood cells that the malarial parasite is killed since it invades red blood cells."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong as usual, the scientific Data:
Chlorine dioxide and hemodialysis. Smith RP, Willhite CC. Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Dartmouth Medical School, Hanover, New Hampshire 03756.
Abstract In the United States chlorination of potable water supplies has been the standard method of disinfection for about 75 years. In recent times concern has been raised about the propensity of chlorination to introduce potentially carcinogenic trihalomethanes (THM) such as chloroform into finished water. The levels of THM introduced depend on many factors including the quality of the raw water. Numerous community water treatment facilities are experiencing difficulty in meeting current U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards, and it is likely that the permissible levels may be lowered in the future. An alternative to chlorination which does not generate THM during disinfection is chlorine dioxide, but there are concerns about the acute and chronic toxicity of ClO2 and its disinfection by-products, chlorite and chlorate. Deleterious effects of moderately high levels of these oxychlorines have been demonstrated experimentally on red blood cells, thyroid function, and development in laboratory animals. Adverse effects in controlled prospective studies in humans and in actual use situations in community water supplies have as yet failed to reveal clear evidence of adverse health effects. Among groups who may be at special risk from this suggested alternative are patients who must undergo chronic extracorporeal hemodialysis. The special needs, precautions, and experience to date in regard to finished water are reviewed. Again, very limited human experience has failed to reveal adverse health effects. Further study, caution, and extreme vigilance are indicated, but dialysis patients in carefully controlled facilities may be at no greater risk than the general population.
Dr. Segura quote: "FDA advises consumers to stop using MMS immediately and throw it away."
Andreas Kalcker: Microcyn Technology has a FDA aprooved CLO2 product: oculusis.com/us/technology/ - Basically the same product as MMS ......
Dr. Segura quote: "In short, MMS should NEVER be a health treatment, alternative or otherwise!"
Andreas Kalcker: THIS IS TRUE.....SINCE YOU CAN NOT PATEND A MINERAL SALT ( NACLO2) OR CITRIC ACID YOU Can MAKE NO MONEY AS A BIG-PHARMA-PRODUCT AND WORSE OF ALL....IT CAN CAUSE " SPONTANEOUS REMISSIONS" OF MANY EVEN LIFE-THREATENING DISEASES!
-------------------- -chaps �Listen to the bell, Borrelia. It tolls for thee!� Posts: 631 | From A little place called, "we'll see." | Registered: Apr 2010
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for all the info, folks. I wish they looked into GMOs, chemicals in the environment and everyday products such as cosmetics, laundry products, plastics, mercury fillings, etc. & chemtrails as thoroughly as MMS...
We are each unique & require differing treatments. Sometimes, our treatments can change from day to day. There's alot of conflicting info probably about everything. Who knows? Maybe smoking tobacco can prevent lungworm...? Maybe there is some benefit to bloodletting with leeches? I don't think we can rule anything out per se.
Some things are definitely toxic, though. We just have to be cautious. Fire and water are elements that can be beneficial but they can also kill.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
Sure leeches help in medicine. When there is microsurgery such as reattaching a finger or an ear, a leech is often used to thin the blood and keep circulation going. Not blood letting as in the ancient times, but leeches are useful.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
hiker, did you mean to add your post to the Apheresis thread I started?
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
No, I was just replying to Sparkle's thoughts on this thread, but I can delete my post if it doesn't fit here.
Here is what Sparkle said.
"We are each unique & require differing treatments. Sometimes, our treatments can change from day to day. There's alot of conflicting info probably about everything. Who knows? Maybe smoking tobacco can prevent lungworm...? Maybe there is some benefit to bloodletting with leeches? I don't think we can rule anything out per se."
Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I am not ruling anything out - I assumed that you had followed the apheresis idea discussed around the same time of your post, and that of course reminds one of bloodletting, etc. etc. even though in this method nothing is lost but the stuff we should not have in our body to begin with. We keep our blood and nothing is added or replaced.
They use different filters for different toxins and debris. The questionnaire I have filled out and sent to Germany is quite extensive because they want to catch all possible past exposures.
Was the little old lady next door spraying her flower beds, etc.? (not in these words, of course). And the list that I saw of what comes out of people is amazing. We are one toxic bunch.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
My question would be how often one would have to have the spheresis performed? We are around so many toxins daily. My neighbors just sprayed for dandelions (something I refuse to do).
I sure do understand we need to get rid of current toxins, but it seems like we will just load up again.
Perhaps this belongs on the other thread, though.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Hiker, so sad about your neighbors SPRAYING chemicals that we will eventually consume! Smart people are eating the chemical-free dandelions, like my Grandma did for many years.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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You can find basically the same items at this site. They are not longer called MMS1 and MMS2, but are now WPS1 and WPS2. Since Jim Humble claims that MMS1 and MMS2 help cure diseases companies changed the name and just call them water purification drops. They, in effect, distance themselves from Jim Humble and are not prosecuted for violating the law.
I am not saying the drops do not work--just explaining why Amazon does not sell them under that name anynmore.
Gigi, the dandelion has so much value. The Russians used them to make tread for their tanks in WW11. Certainly the dandelion has many positive health benefits, but too many chemicals around here. I live in farm country where too many farmers still believe in sprays.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
Gigi,
can I take DE as a binder while on MMS?
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I am not Gigi, but after scanning her posts on MMS she did take DE while using it. I think she took it before meals.
I am not on MMS, but I find DE very helpful. I usually take mine before bedtime.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8890 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
GiGi -- Would you mind explaining a conservative way to start the MMS enema protocol? I see notes from a conference where Dr. K. spoke, and the notes indicate taking 8-20 drops reacted in 1/2 liter - 1 liter (i.e. 2 drops per 100 ml), and then hold for 5 minutes.
I'm not sure what 20 drops reacted means, per se. I saw one instruction online talking about mixing 1 drop MMS per 5 drops citric acid solution. That equates to perhaps 3 drops MMS and 15 drops citric acid, which would be 18 drops of reacted solution. Would this be the equivalent to 18 drops reacted, or would 18 drops reacted require 18 drops of actual MMS and then equivalently more citric acid solution?
Hopefully this question makes sense. Do you feel diluting it 2 drops per 100 ml is helpful. Seems like this would then require using an enema setup similar to like when people do coffee enemas, where substantial water is infused (such as 2 cups water at a time)? I have such a setup, no problem, but just wondering if this is what is intended, versus one of those small little enemas about the size of a finger that just squeezes in perhaps an ounce of fluid at a time...
Whether you're able to respond to this, GiGi, as always, thanks for the info you bring here!
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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Tammy N.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
When I saw Dr. K last weekend, he said to start with 1 drop and gradually ramp up from there. (1 drop MMS to 1 drop activator).
I use 4 cups of water when doing my coffee enemas. I just did my first MMS enema last week.....I just did 1 activated drop to the 4 cups of filtered water. Next time I will try 3 drops.
I'm not sure how much water is suppose to be used.... I guess you don't want it to dilute too much to lose effect. I'll try to find out if I can get better info.
MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
So you are using the same number of drops activator as you are MMS (1 drop MMS, 1 drop activator; then when you go to 3 drops, you'll use 3 drops MMS and 3 drops activator)? Are you using citric acid solution as activator?
Thanks for your help Tammy.
I miss GiGi as well.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I wonder why Dr. K suggests to use 1 drop of MMS with the citric acid...? Jim H. suggests to use 1 drop of MMS to 5 drops of activator. It's strong stuff - you probably want to start with 1 drop MMS & work it up for an enema but I never tried it for that purpose.
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![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
and now he's telling people, "Gee, that MMS and the Salt/C Protocol are pretty good after all."![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
without thinking too much about it. sadly it has not been a game changer for me. the only thing i didnt try yet is to push through the KPU protocol. 
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