MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
As best I can tell, I have had lyme disease either all my life or since fairly early childhood. I do not think there was much progression during childhood, but, as an adult, I think there was very slow progression.
Then, one day, I experienced a physical and emotional trauma, and symptoms skyrocketed out of control. The reaction was problematic to the point that doctors were questioning what else was going on that would have allowed/caused that reaction.
Eventually, we found that the lyme disease was a big reaon why. Even with significant treatment, I do not believe that I have not gotten back to where I was before then.
So, to share, sometimes things progress very slowly, but there is potential for that changing.
I would say, yes, there are herbal supplements where taking them could potentially give you a sense of whether you have lyme and/or coinfections.
There are also acupuncture practitioners who treat allergies to substances, where they have vials with the energy of the substance. The person holds the vial during acupuncture treatment. But "energy testing", a.k.a. kinesiology (pushing arm down, etc.) can be done to determine if there is a reaction and if treatment is needed. Finding such a practitioner with the lyme vials could also be informative. There are a few types of treatment like this, but NAET is the most well known, I believe.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Your test results may have some positives, so let's wait until tomorrow to see them.
You are really getting ahead of yourself. We have answers to these questions, but your test results may tell the tale. Does your doctor have ALL of your Western Blots, etc.? ALL of your lyme-related tests?
Did you ever show your lyme test results to your dad? Did he say anything about them--like that you had some positives, etc? I would think he would be somewhat knowledgeable about how to read a lyme and coinfection test since he has lyme and is being treated for lyme.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TF: Your test results may have some positives, so let's wait until tomorrow to see them.
You are really getting ahead of yourself. We have answers to these questions, but your test results may tell the tale. Does your doctor have ALL of your Western Blots, etc.? ALL of your lyme-related tests?
Did you ever show your lyme test results to your dad? Did he say anything about them--like that you had some positives, etc? I would think he would be somewhat knowledgeable about how to read a lyme and coinfection test since he has lyme and is being treated for lyme.
Well I haven't shown the results to my dad, but he swears by Dr G and told me that if she said its negative, I should stop worrying about it. But idk now.
My psychologist only has the results from my Lyme Doctor, not the two western blots (unless she took a western blot too, idk). Those I'd have to get from my pdoc
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course on the portal for my general medical records, it doesn't give me a detailed report for the Lyme Western Blots. It just says "negative IGG,IGM" and under details it says "REPORT". I guess I'll have to call tomorrow when they're open
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Yes, it is very important that you get complete copies of the actual test results.
The conclusion of "negative" means nothing. We need to see the detail. Be sure you get every page. There will be an IgG page and an IgM page.
I don't have the same opinion your father has about Dr. G based on patient reports I have received on her. I have been told by people that she will only treat a person for lyme disease if they have a positive test.
Then, if they have a positive test, she will treat them "until the cows come home."
So, obviously, she is not willing to follow the Burrascano approach to diagnosing lyme disease. That is safer for her, but leaves many folks with lyme disease out in the cold.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
WHY you need an ILADS "educated" or "minded" Lyme Literate doctor (whether MD or ND, or both) - starting with assessment / evaluation for lyme, OTHER tick-borne diseases, and other chronic stealth infections - and all that goes along for the ride.
Medical "models" explained here, as to differences in the ISDA & ILADS models of assessment & treatment - and exactly why it is so very important to know the differences. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
quote:Originally posted by thatjames1130: I feel like I can deal with my current symptoms (except for depression) but my main concern is things getting worse. Does Lyme related depression always need to be treated with medicine?
If it is because of Lyme disease or it's coinfections (or any infection), YES, it needs to be treated. You will not get rid of the depression until you do. And, yes, things will most likely continue to get worse if you have Lyme or coinfections.
How you treat it is up to you, whether conventionally or naturally. There are different types of ILADS docs. Some treat conventionally with ABX (antibiotics), and some treat more naturally. I think Dr. G would be integrative (do both)??
From what I have seen with others, and have experienced for myself, I feel the best approach is ABX WITH natural stuff (like herbs). More people have success combining both approaches than have success with either approach alone.
But, as TF said, you are getting ahead of yourself. Let's see what all you were tested for and by which labs. We will have better advice once we know that.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- While the consideration of what is the cause / set of causes can be daunting, one by one, it is important to work through.
INFLAMMATION is likely a big part of this and that can have many causes. Of course, there are many ways to be exposed to lyme without even knowing how / when. Tick bites often go without notice, but lyme can also be carried by mosquitoes.
While working through all these, whatever you can do to get good nutrition, good AIR, that matters.
Either separately, or possibly together with lyme or other TBD (tick-borne disease) -
or various other chronic "stealth" infections such as Mycoplasmas, Chlamydia Pneumonia, Herpes family, etc. -
there can be various factors that contribute to or cause depression, anxiety, OCD. Some of those:
Vitamin / Mineral deficiencies or imbalances -- see Carol in PA's post above with magnesium links
Exposure to chemicals in environment, personal care products, and even to some medications
Vinyl flooring (even a vinyl shower curtain), new carpet, new bedding, new upholstered furniture or textiles as most are doused in fire retardant chemicals
New car interior is very toxic (likely many of us can't afford a new car but just in case, it's important to know this)
Air fresheners used in older cars, home can be very toxic and that can trigger all kinds of mental health symptoms due to the toxicity.
Why Can't I Get Better?: Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease
- by a leading ILADS LLMD - November 2013 -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
BODY WORK methods / links (and why anyone who works on your spine MUST be LL to the degree they at least know to never suddenly twist neck or spine. Never. Ever. And that we should never be advised to do neck / head / shoulder stands.) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
TNT
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 42349
posted
quote:Originally posted by TF: I don't have the same opinion your father has about Dr. G based on patient reports I have received on her. I have been told by people that she will only treat a person for lyme disease if they have a positive test.
Then, if they have a positive test, she will treat them "until the cows come home."
So, obviously, she is not willing to follow the Burrascano approach to diagnosing lyme disease. That is safer for her, but leaves many folks with lyme disease out in the cold.
This is a concern!
Diagnosis for Borrelia and coinfections is based on more than just tests! It is based on tests AND clinical presentation (symptoms), clinical history (symptoms and exposure), along with a differential diagnosis (ruling out other possibilities).
And yes, sometimes a trial of meds (& herbs) is necessary to gauge the response if there still is uncertainty.
It sounds like Dr. G is not diagnosing and treating true to ILADS standards.
You may need a 2nd opinion with an ILADS doc and TF has some very good suggestions if it looks like that is what you need.
Posts: 1308 | From Eastern USA | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged |
posted
I can't express how thankful I am to all of you who have been so helpful. I think the reason I worry so much is because idk how I'd be able to afford treatment if I do have Lyme, and if it's even possible for me to get better
That's just the way my mind works I guess, I always expect the worst. Has anyone here gotten completely better through treatment? And how do you live knowing you could get it again?
I feel like even if I was cured, every little symptom afterwards I would think to myself "oh no, it's back".
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- See if you can turn worry into action. Worry does us no good, action can. Become as educated as you can on the key details.
Reject some of your old patterns when you catch yourself in a "worry" by just moving along or side-stepping to "okay, well, then what can do about that, then?"
Even if you can't afford treatment, don't jump on the worry train for that reason, either. Treatment can vary. One step at a time and take care of yourself as best you can along the way.
Connect with your local LYME SUPPORT GROUP, be sure they are ILADS "minded" though. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TF: I don't have the same opinion your father has about Dr. G based on patient reports I have received on her. I have been told by people that she will only treat a person for lyme disease if they have a positive test.
Then, if they have a positive test, she will treat them "until the cows come home."
So, obviously, she is not willing to follow the Burrascano approach to diagnosing lyme disease. That is safer for her, but leaves many folks with lyme disease out in the cold.
This is a concern!
Diagnosis for Borrelia and coinfections is based on more than just tests! It is based on tests AND clinical presentation (symptoms), clinical history (symptoms and exposure), along with a differential diagnosis (ruling out other possibilities).
And yes, sometimes a trial of meds (& herbs) is necessary to gauge the response if there still is uncertainty.
It sounds like Dr. G is not diagnosing and treating true to ILADS standards.
You may need a 2nd opinion with an ILADS doc and TF has some very good suggestions if it looks like that is what you need.
Yes, I'm thinking of seeing Dr H in NY if need be. Does anyone know of him?
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- A couple of things to avoid if you might have lyme / infection: steroids; aerobic exercise (other exercise is important, just NOT aerobic);
and Vaccines. Avoid vaccines (unless you require a tetanus shot due to possible exposure such as a break in skin when around soil).
Hesitating a bit as I do not want to cause "worry" yet this is important detail. This is the time of year that the media and pharmaceutical companies push vaccines.
For anyone who might have an infection or is in ill health, vaccines are not advised. Many here have had damage from vaccines (I sure have, twice).
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - A couple of things to avoid if you might have lyme / infection: steroids; aerobic exercise (other exercise is important, just aerobic.-
This is is interesting. Is aerobic exercise exercise to get your heart rate up and huffing and puffing, like jogging? Because Dr G actually told me she recommends this type of exercise because oxygen helps to "kill the bacteria".
I also exercise regularly 5x per week, aerobic (running) and anaerobic (weights) and haven't ever noticed adverse effects. In fact, I usually feel better after. Could this signify something?
I have also gotten numerous vaccines throughout my life without any side effects that I remember.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
posted
By "better" I mean a slight mood lift. Nothing substantial, but no adverse effects.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
posted
Do people with Lyme typically react negatively to aerobic exercise?
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Your experience with exercise is NOT typical for those who have lyme. Most would have extreme and dangerous exhaustion from what you do.
I can't say that you do or do not have lyme. There are other things, of course, to consider.
And, once in while, someone with lyme does better with hard exercise or with heat -- but that may last or not. It's just not typical so just be mindful in case that changes.
Also, explore other things that could be at the root of your symptoms.
Do keep in mind, though, that
Aerobic exercise in someone with an infection can damage the heart, the liver and have other harmful effects on adrenal & immune function, etc.
In the bit you copied and put in bold, that last part should have had a "not" in it. Other kinds of exercise are important, just NOT aerobic if an infection is on board.
If you feel better after whatever you do, and you don't have "payback" later that day or the next day, that's good. Keep it to where you don't have to suffer exhaustion afterward as is something that many with lyme have experienced before they found the right kind for them - at the various stages.
Don't underestimate how good a walk can be. If you can do a walk several times a day for a few minutes, that could be more uplifting than a long walk less frequently.
Walk in NATURE or move in nature as much as you can. Just stay clear of brushing upon or being under leaves. Get away from traffic and busyness as much as you can as that really helps moving the body also help heal the brain and spirit.
[ 10-15-2015, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dr. H in NY is the top LLMD, but I don't think he is taking new patients. Last I heard was he had a very long waiting list (800 people, I think!) Call to find out.
If not, write a new post in "Seeking a Doctor" and write in the state specifically where you are looking for in the title, i.e. "Need LLMD in PA".
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I got completely better by going to a lyme specialist that followed the Burrascano protocol.
I had lyme, babesiosis and bartonella undiagnosed for at least 10 years before a smart doctor tested me for lyme. Still, with good treatment, I got rid of these diseases.
It is now 10 1/2 years since I completed my treatment and I am still symptom free, enjoying my life.
At first, I was worried about getting lyme back all the time. I found an attached tick 2 weeks after completing my treatment! But, it didn't make me sick.
I went back to my lyme doctor 9 months later thinking I had lyme back, or else it was menopause. It turned out to be menopause.
I have changed my lifestyle to avoid ticks. Even so, I have found a few on me in 10 1/2 years. Still, I have not gotten lyme back. BUT, I still test positive on a Quest Western Blot!! Ha ha. I am still making antibodies to lyme disease.
So, if you have lyme and get a good doctor, you can get well. It took me 13 months with a good Burrascano type doctor.
You will naturally worry about getting it back, but worry doesn't cause it to come back. So, eventually, you calm down.
But, I never go into woods, walk in tall grass along the road, lean against trees, sit on tree stumps, and I avoid gardening and pulling weeds and stepping in flower beds and try not to walk on grass much at all. (Our property backs to a woods.) I check myself for ticks any time I have been outside.
We treat our yard with tick killer at least 3 times in a year.
This is life after lyme. It is a good life!
So, don't fear finding out the truth. I can send you to a good doctor who will help you. (You can't get in with Dr. H.)
How long has your dad been treating with Dr. G?
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Why was Dr. G. telling you ways to "kill the bacteria" if she said you don't have lyme disease?
Was she talking about other bacteria?
Normally, a lyme patient has terrible fatigue. Fatigue is not a good enough word for it. Normally, a lyme patient would not be exercising 5 times per week. They just wouldn't be able to do it physically.
How long is a typical exercise period for you?
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
First of all, thank you for sharing your encouraging story, it gave me hope.
My dad is no longer seeing Dr G due to costs. He's been on antibiotics for a while but actually only seemed to get worse since his diagnosis I really do feel awful for him. He's now bouncing back and forth between "pain management specialists"
Typical exercise for me is about 45-60 minutes of weights, sometimes followed by a mile or two of cardio.
Dr G told me about the bacteria cuz I was asking a lot of questions. I liked her in this regard, because she had no problem with being a teacher and answering all my questions.
I feel that my depression symptoms have gotten somewhat better after taking St John's Wort, but I still can't help but to obsessively worry.
When Lyme wasn't on my mind, I was constantly worrying why I didn't enjoy anything like I used to (a classic symptom of depression, I've heard).
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Sixteen points to consider, please share with your father as well.
Even if you might not have lyme, you may find some answers here:
posted
I would totally buy that book if I had the money. If not for me, then for my dad at least.
Little off topic, but I'm a college student still waiting on PA to pass their state budget so I can get the $1900 refund they promised me -_-
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Yes, Dr. G is very expensive. There are better, less expensive doctors.
I don't think many people with lyme could do all of the exercise you are doing. Not many at all. That is because the #1 lyme symptom (and babesiosis symptom) is this horrendous fatigue.
Generally, a lyme patient's endurance and energy is extremely limited. So, perhaps you just have depression.
If you take a good antidepressant (like Zoloft) and all of your symptoms go away, then you have diagnosed yourself.
And, you can stop the Zoloft any time you want to. You slowly taper down your dose and, if your symptoms don't come back, then you no longer need it.
But, if your symptoms start coming back as you taper down, then you stay on the Zoloft for a few more months and then try again.
If you are under a lot of stress, you may need the Zoloft for about 9 months. It helps restore the brain chemicals that can get too low when we are stressed for a long period.
Your primary doctor can prescribe it for you. It made me feel like my normal self! I loved it! And, I only needed it for 9 months.
I hope you can try this and all of your symptoms just disappear!!!
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I agree with TF about how your exercise pattern and tolerance is not typical for lyme.
I'd stop gluten before trying any Rx anti-depressant. Just going off gluten lifted years-long depression in my case.
I had many terrible experiences with side-effects from many different anti-depressant trials, even at low dose. Please first try a gluten-free diet.
Be sure you have enough protein and complex carbohydrates and good fat in your diet, too, and that you eat often enough.
You might connect with your local CELIAC support group for more detail on that.
As for that book, perhaps if you connect with your school library, they could get it for you to borrow.
or connect with your local lyme support group (even if you may not have lyme, it's a good book and will also help you better help your Dad). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
Could depression cause the twitching as well? I know anxiety could but I seem to have twitching all day long, not triggered by any thoughts or anxious feelings that I'm aware of.
I'm sort of afraid of anti-depressants for their side effects. How was your experience with Zoloft as far as side effects go?
I've been on St. Johns Wort for a couple of months now and I think it is helping, more than any other supplement I've tried, but I'm still not 100%. (Maybe like 70% better as far as my mental state goes).
My pdoc actually prescribed Paxil, but I didn't want to take it, just because I felt like she rushed into it too quickly.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - I agree with TF about how your exercise pattern and tolerance is not typical for lyme.
I'd stop gluten before trying any Rx anti-depressant. Just going off gluten lifted years-long depression in my case. -
Yes, actually I tried a partial "eliminate diet". Three weeks ago, I cut out wheat/gluten, eggs, soy, and dairy. I already know I'm lactose intolerant so the dairy was an obvious one.
During the three weeks, I haven't really noticed an improvement in my mood. I felt a little slimmer with my stomach, but thats about it.
I slowly reintroduced gluten a week ago and havent noticed any psychological adverse effect. However, by the end of the week, after reintroducing everything, I have noticed a little bit of bloating going on, but still no other physical/psychological changes.
Twitching and my mild-moderate depression persisted unfortunately.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Muscle twitching could be from low magnesium. The easy way to test this out is to buy some Mag-Tab SR by Niche on line and take one in a.m. and one in p.m.
You will notice a difference in about a week if the twitching is from low mag. Typical mag blood test will not show low mag. So, instead of asking for the $300 good magnesium test, order a bottle of Mag-Tab and test it out yourself.
This is the magnesium Burrascano recommends. It has helped many people that I know. Some had lyme and some didn't.
The Zoloft caused headache for me in the beginning. No other side effects. So, I started out slow with it. I took maybe 1/4 of a pill per day at first. This is a ridiculously small amount, but I have to do that due to the headaches.
People think they will not be their normal selves on antidepressants. Zoloft returned me to my normal self.
I understand being turned off by a doc quickly offering an antidepressant. I was offered them for 10 LONG years when my real problem was lyme disease!!!
St. John's wort is good for very mild irritability. It is not strong enough to take care of a depression. A depression is a lack of chemicals in the brain. Restore what the brain lacks and it will go back to normal.
So, if wort helps you, that is a sign that a good antidepressant will likely restore you to normal.
And, you don't become dependent on antidepressants. Zoloft does not cause weight gain or any other side effects. At least, it didn't for me and I had to take it 2 different times in my life. It was great both times!
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I took the Zoloft for anxiety once and for anxiety/depression once.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The only thing is that there have actually been studies comparing St John's Wort to leading SSRI drugs (Paxil, Zoloff, etc) and St John's Wort actually outperformed them in clinical trials.
Idk what that means, I guess it means that in my mind, if wort doesn't do the trick 100%, I feel that no SSRI would.
I could be wrong though, as everybody is different. I might have to go down that road eventually and it's at least good to know that they're an option.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
St. John's wort didn't help me but Zoloft did.
Wort only helped me with very mild mood problems. But, it worked great for that. I loved it for that.
I can't believe wort outperformed Zoloft (because of the chemical problem in the brain when you are in a clinical depression. Wort can't address that physical need). I would like to see that study to figure out the flaw. Do you have the link?
I don't know anything about the magnesium you are asking about. Burrascano recommends Mag Tab SR and I know it works.
A 60 count bottle is $15.25. Enough for a 1 month trial. That is plenty to see if low mag is the cause of your twitching.
Or, don't bother trying to fix the twitching if you can't afford the good mag. Just get to your doctor and ask for a trial of Zoloft. That is an awful lot cheaper than going to a second lyme doctor. Try the cheap things first to see if they work.
You will spend big bucks going to another lyme doctor.
Here is Burrascano on mag:
"Magnesium supplementation is very helpful for the tremors, twitches, cramps, muscle soreness, heart skips and weakness. It may also help in energy level and cognition. The best source is magnesium L-lactate dehydrate ("Mag-tab SR", sold by Niche Pharmaceuticals: 1-800-677-0355, and available at Wal-Mart). DO NOT rely on "cal-mag", calcium plus magnesium combination tablets, as they are not well absorbed. Take at least one tablet twice daily. Higher doses increase the benefit and should be tried, but may cause diarrhea. In some cases, intramuscular or intravenous doses may be necessary." (page 28)
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
MannaMe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33330
posted
I would try omega 3 fish oil before an antidepressant!! If you aren't eating fish, or grassfed beef & chicken or milk & eggs from grassfed cows & chickens, you aren't getting enough omega 3's in your diet.
Our brains need good fats - we need to eat omaga 3's because our bodies can't make them.
Fish oil won't cause all the side effects that antidepressants can.
Posts: 2601 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2011
| IP: Logged |
There's a link to a summary of the study's comparing wort to SSRIs
And yeah, I take fish oil 2x per day as well as eat vegititsrian fed eggs and fish like salmon 2x per week.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
posted
So, if I start taking antidepressants and they help, my depression isn't caused by Lyme?
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
We have to see your test results to try to help you answer these questions.
The tests will give us a better idea of whether or not this could be lyme.
Have you studied the symptom list in the Burrascano Guidelines?
My psychologist is still in the process of diagnosing me
Pain is never anywhere other than my knee. Sometimes my lower back hurts from sitting over a long period of time, but I attribute this to a small injury I sustained while doing deadlifts.
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
When I was sick with lyme, I took pure powder Cats claw for about 2 whole years. Buhner's book was just released, and some of us here started taking his suggested herbs from Healing Lyme.
What I concluded was that ALMOST everyone with active Borrelia reacted in a way or another to cats claw.
it is cheap if you buy it bulk,a nd you just have to mix it to water and drink. Start slow.
If you see no herxes, no improvement, nothing, I think you may not have active Borrelia. It doesn't mean you do not have lyme, because with lyme disease, the pathogens take turns, sometimes you got more bart, others candida, other times it's some virus...
then you can have again Borrelia, activated, sometime later.
But I find the cats claw test inexpensive and without real side effects, if you can tolerate the herbs. It's just an idea, but that is what convinced some people I knew, that had lyme but were not sure about it.
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
All we need from your primary is a copy of the Western Blot tests that he did--the actual test results that he received.
Notice that the above test results summarize your Western Blot by MDL. The summary says: You had no positive bands on the IgM and only band 41 positive on the IgG.
Then, it says "see attached report." You may have never gotten that report, but I would contact the lyme doctor's office and ask for it. It should be exactly what they have summarized, but the point is that you want your ACTUAL Western Blot test results, not a summary. You want to see the result for each band that was tested.
You don't know which bands they tested you for until you get the actual test results. We want to be sure that they tested for the important bands. Not all labs do.
So, your Western Blot through MDL looks just like my husband's and he does not have lyme, even though he had sex with me for the 10 years that I was sick with lyme but didn't yet have a diagnosis. That is a lot of sex.
That is why I had him tested. He only had a positive on band 41. That positive can be attributed to gum disease which he had in the past. So, your WB looks like a person's who does not have lyme.
Still, I would want my actual test results which they evidently sent to the lyme doctor.
You are also negative for all the coinfections that she tested you for. She ordered a number of tests for these, which is good. But, as we have said, you can't count on these being accurate, especially a PCR or ELISA.
It is EXTREMELY difficult to read these test results because the print is so small and not clear at all. I made an effort to do this, just to help you to understand your results.
If you want to retype exactly what you see, perhaps more people would be willing to chime in. This is really tough to read, even enlarging the print on my screen.
Regarding your list of symptoms, you are not naming the classic lyme symptoms. For example, from p. 26 of Burrascano:
"Migratory- first a knee will hurt, then over time this may lessen and the elbow or shoulder acts up, and later the joints calm down but headaches worsen."
"Tiredness and limited stamina- often is a strong need to rest or even nap in the afternoon, especially when the flushed face and elevated temperature appears."
"4-week cycles- Bb activity, and thus symptoms, wax and wane in a cycle that repeats roughly every four weeks. This cycle, if clear, can guide your treatments"
Does your knee pain occur in 4 week cycles? If not, have you had a doctor examine your knee? Perhaps a knee doctor can tell you why you sometimes get mild pain there.
I will wait to see the other Western Blot test results, but your very few mild symptoms and the fact that you exercise about 1 hour or more 5 days per week including running and weightlifting just does not sound like a typical lyme patient at all.
You may just have a mild knee problem and have depression/anxiety from stress.
You really should get the magnesium Burrascano suggests and see if the twitches go away using it for a few weeks.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
I didn't even notice band 41 being positive before, now I'm a bit concerned. Dr. G is closed till Monday so I'll have to call then.
Anyway, here are my hand-typed results:
BABESIA MICROTI BY REAL-TIME PCR- Negative
EHRILICHIA CHAFFESSENSIS (HME) & ANAPLASMA PHAGOCYTOPHILIA (HGE) BY REAL-TIME PCR- Both Negative
RICKETTSIA RICKETTSII BY REAL-TIME PCR- Negative
BABESIA WA1 BY REAL-TIME PCR- Negative
LYME DISEASE WESTERN BLOT (IGM/IGG)- IgM: No bands present. IgG: band 41 present (see attached report) IgMCDC- Negative IgMaIt- Negative IgGAIt- Negative
LYME DISEASE C6 PEPTIDE BY ELISA- Negative (Index=0.13/0.90)
ANAPLASMA PHAGOCYTOPHILUM IGG/IGM BY IFA- Negative
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
It would be good if you would put the picture of the test results back up because you have not retyped all of the relevant information in your post above.
For example, you don't give the name of the lab doing the test. To a lyme patient, that is very important.
I know I saw other things that were important also, so I hope you can repost the photo of the test results.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The more I research, the more I become concerned with band 41. Some say it's non specific to Lyme, some say it's highly specific to Lyme, and some say it's between Lyme and some diseases that are easy to rule out, like syphilis.
What do you guys think?
Posts: 117 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Oct 2015
| IP: Logged |
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
You need to add the "Reference Units/Comments" section to your post above where you give us your MDL test results.
This is very important information. I can't make it out entirely.
And, you have to label that information with the proper heading. In other words, you have to replicate the format of the test results so that it makes sense to the reader.
You can't just put it all together. It makes no sense unless it is in the proper columns with headings.
You put the info in "Reference Units/Comments" first when giving us your Western Blot results. Then, you went back to the middle column and wrote that information. You can't do that.
For the other tests, you didn't give us the info in the third column at all.
So, what you did isn't good enough if we are to try to help you figure out your chances of having lyme.
Otherwise, give us a much better picture of the document. One that is totally readable. Only the MDL.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic