I saw your name and was wondering if it was you because the registration date threw me off a little. Good to see you, too. Hope you're doing well!
Posts: 487 | From USA | Registered: Feb 2002
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Phoiph
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quote:Originally posted by hiker53: I think enough back and forth has gone into this thread and feel like it needs to be locked or deleted.
On what grounds should this thread be censored?
No rules have been violated, and everyone has been relatively civil.
These are unprecedented times with our health, welfare, and human rights at stake. I don't think we can afford to close our minds or our discussions on these crucial issues, no matter how uncomfortable...
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
I am not saying censor the thread. I am saying just lock it down.
Seems like same things are being repeated. And if you saw what happened in an Off Topic thread about covid, vaccines and masks you would understand why I proposed this.
Or move it to general since most medical is about Lyme and this is more about covid.
Just a thought.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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IMO, if no rules have been violated, and the discussion is relevant and civil, "deleting" OR "locking down" IS censoring.
I feel the discussion is appropriate for Lyme/medical, as it began with a link to how people with Lyme are reacting to the Covid-19 vaccine, and became a more general discussion in context.
We can agree to disagree...
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Bartenderbonnie
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Phoiph
Apologies sent.
Sometimes the written word is interrupted different than the spoken word. I should have known better, you seem open to other’s thoughts and processes.
The problem with this topic, is that people don’t behave. I have been accused of being a bully and harassing which is not true. (please believe I am not referring to you).
If one lacks the skill of discussing an issue with a cool head, they resort to name calling. I do not claim to know how we can get past this. Lately, we have not concentrated on the mission of Lymenet, which is offering support and guidance to Lyme patients.
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Phoiph
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Bartenderbonnie~
Thank you, I understand...no worries!
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Phoiph
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There are no studies that prove masks work, none. Masks in hospitals are for bacteria in an environmentally controlled area, for short term use. They are not, and never were, intended for use against viruses.
According to both doctors and immunologists (Dr.Geert Vanden Bossche, Dr Robert Malone, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Pierre Kory and many others) state that these jabs offer very limited, short-lived help. No immunity and you can still both contract and pass this delta virus, therefore it doesn't even met the definition of a vaccine. Jabbing during an active pandemic drives immune escape...it can also drive Antibody Dependent Enhancement.
There have been NUMEROUS adverse reactions and deaths. There are GOOD therapeutic protocols and prophylactics. These jabs are not appropriate for many groups. We have no long term data...and the data coming out of Israel and the UK shows that the elderly and those with serious commorbidities are still getting sick and some are dying. One size does not fit all. I am an adult, I will make my own decisions regarding my medical decisions. I also major have issues with using aborted baby cell lines. If you feel you have made an informed consent, fine. The CDC, NIH and the WHO are capture, rogue agencies, in my opinion...but I am not alone in it.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
We are reading and listening to different sources... Masks are not 'easy or free of dangers'. Bacteria grows in that moist warm space btw your nose/mouth and cloth/paper. It reduces oxygen, ...I know because I was forced to wear one for a procedure (I told them I had dysautonomia)...and first came the headaches, nausea, dizziness and then my bp dropped to 70/58, and they had to put me on oxygen. So... You, do you. I know what I can and cannot handle and what I am and am not willing to subject my conscience or body to anymore. Not mad at you, but tired of the lies put out by media and the agencies.
-------------------- When you reach your "wits-end" remember this: "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. I do not give as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27 Posts: 397 | From Loudoun County Virginia | Registered: Mar 2007
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Phoiph
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quote:Originally posted by hiker53: "... And if variants keep popping up that become more vaccine resistant then the mRNA vaccines can easily be tweaked for the variant..."
hiker53~
Respectfully, I understand that you feel strongly about the merits of the mRNA therapy, but I have to ask...
How do you see this playing out? Injecting yourself with booster after booster every few months for life? Do you not see this as a potential problem for your physiology?
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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I waiting on the booster shot for now to see how it plays out. SARSCovid 19 is new and science is evolving. Just as the virus is evolving.
The great flu pandemic of 1918-1919 eventually ended and flu strains since then have not been as dangerous. Maybe that will happen with Covid, as well.
When we were kids we had to get 4 shots of the polio vaccine. That would be the initial shot and 3 boosters before the age of 5. That is just one example. So boosters are not unique to Covid.
In a way, the yearly flu shot is a booster, albeit trying to match that year’s variant. I don’t get the flu shot but my mom and brother do with no ill effects. I personally had a bad reaction to the one flu shot I got, so no more for me.
I am a bit more hesitant on the booster than my initial covid vaccine partially because I just had the vaccine in May, partially because I want to see how the virus and pandemic evolve, and partially because I believe the T cells will still offer protection even if the antibody count is low.
If people choose not to be vaccinated but they work around people then I hope they will get tested for Covid regularly. I know tests aren’t prefect but again I would err on the side of caution.
I am not for a vaccine mandate that says get the vaccine or lose your job. I don’t mind those that say get the vaccine OR get tested regularly.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Except, this is not a regular vaccine (like the flu shot, polio, etc.) that prevents infection or spread, so as the MD implied in the last article I posted, a "leaky" "vaccine" is likely to promote continual variants.
Therefore, Covid may not fade as other flu strains eventually have. Boosters will likely continue to be produced as different variants evolve...possibly perpetually.
What do you think about the successful efforts of many docs to prevent and treat, which have been largely ignored and outright suppressed? Do you not think there might be something wrong with this picture?
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
October 1999. I had my first ever flu shot.
Within hours I started with the weirdest symptoms I had ever had.
8 months later, 12 specialists later, scopes from every end multiple times, MRI Scans done on every inch of my body, blood tests too many to remember, chemical testing, metal testing, you name it... I went through it.
All to find out at the end with ONE more test sent to Igenex, that I had Lyme and Babesiosis.
I will never, ever, ever, chance a vaccine of any type in my body ever, ever again.
I will not go through the feeling like I was dying, going into a coma, vibrations and tingling in legs and feet, pain from every joint... you name it, I had it.
I have Zithromax, Diflucan, Doxy AND Ivermectin that I have from my LLMD that I pulse now and live a pretty normal life.
I will lose my job on Dec 3rd if my healthcare facility that I work in doesn't accept my medical exemption. I don't care. I will not subject myself to those type of health issues again.
Yes, it's a 50/50 will I react or won't I.
I'm not willing to take the chance.
I take my Vit D3, Zinc, Vit C's and so far, I believe I have had a variant twice. Our 15 min antibody test that our little rural hospital has came back negative, but they have all sorts of excuses that it's not 100% correct most of the time. (as with most of the testing for Covid)
That's my take on this. We all need to do what we deem best for ourselves, but this forcing, mandating crap is not what should be happening. Choices. My choice is nope, nada.
Best wishes to you all. I've been on this journey now since 1999......
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Phoiph
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I'm sorry to hear that, hadlyme.
I am hoping with the Southwest Airlines debacle, etc., mandates will eventually be overturned. I truly hope this is before Dec 3rd for your sake.
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kgg
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Hadlyme, thanks for sharing. I was functional and working as a RN until I took the three government mandated for nurses Hep B series injections. Then started my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia symptoms. And my journey to figure out what was wrong with me for years until I learned I had chronic Lyme from childhood tick bites.
Years ago, my husband prevailed on me to get the H1N1 flu vaccine because it was so virulent. I had not had a flu shot in 10 years. I did. Three weeks of feeling horrible with shooting pains all over my body started the next day. And that was a preservative-free one.
Needless to say, I am like you. I will never take another vaccine again. And it saddens me that so many people are willing to hand over their personal freedoms in the name of fear.
Posts: 1844 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by map1131: News FLASH Hiker...
that new drug is Ivermectin being renamed by Merck.
I'm sick and tired of fricking games being played by pharma, medical establishment, CDC, NIH, AMA, Powers that be currently trying to control American lives. They are LIARS and THIEVES!
For any Lyme sufferer to fall for one word that Fauci and his establishment have said in the last 19 months....is beyond me. Fauci was part of creating this virus. He used our tax dollars to do it.
Pam
No, the new antiviral by Merck is not Ivermectin. Where do people come up with this nonsense?
It's an anti-viral for COVID, just like Tamiflu is an anti-viral for flu.
Posts: 132 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2004
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Phoiph
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Merck's patent for Ivermectin expired in 1996.
After interest in this inexpensive drug's effectiveness for Covid surged, Merck put out a statement denouncing its use.
Merck's newly formulated drug was already in the works, and has already been funded via our tax dollars to the tune of 1.2 billion.
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Phoiph
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Informative interview with Dr. Peter McCullough on Covid, variants, masks, vaccines, preventative and early treatment, etc.
Dr. McCullough is an internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist and a full professor of medicine at Texas A&M College of Medicine in Dallas. He also has a master’s degree in public health and is known for being one of the top five most-published medical researchers in the US.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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If vaccines are not helpful then why in Texas, Florida, Alabama, Missouri, Illinois etc, are the majority of the patients in ICU or dying unvaccinated? Can’t change those facts.
Yes, the vaccines are wearing off now.
I have known several people who have had Covid twice approximately a year apart. Guess their natural immunity against Covid didn’t last.
Just like immunity against last year’s flu doesn’t last for this year’s flu.
Talk to your doctor about this information to make your decisions about Covid vaccines and treatment.
Listerine is not going to prevent Covid as Covid usually comes in through the nose.
I enjoyed listening to his info on the treatments.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Hiker,
A lot depends on where one gets their "facts", and how those numbers are interpreted.
There have been many legitimate questions raised regarding manipulation of testing thresholds, counting, causes of death, etc...enough to at least view "the facts" with a critical eye.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Seems like you are saying I don’t have a critical eye. I beg to differ.
But your mind is not going to change no matter what facts are put in front of you.
Too bad the vaccines have not been tweaked for the delta variant since that variant makes up 90+% cases in the world
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Hiker, you don't know my mind, or what will change it.
My mind is not strictly on one side; but I believe the overwhelming majority of the information we are receiving is one-sided.
Therefore, I am presenting another side, offered by a legitimate professional.
To me, the "vaccines" will become a lifetime series of variant boosters, with loss of rights, jobs and privileges for those that do not comply.
To me this is unsustainable and unacceptable.
There are other obvious avenues that need to be explored, including prevention and treatment, and I question why there the emphasis is not there, where it should be, don't you?
This is what I mean by interpreting the "facts" and information we are receiving with a critical eye. What is the motive here? Is it truly on our health and well being?
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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Didn’t I just say that I enjoyed listening to the doctor’s information on treatment? Furthermore more emphasis has been put in treatment. Pfizer, for example, has a new drug that could easily be dispensed to the world.
Prevention seems pretty simple: avoid crowded indoor areas, wear masks, if you feel ill stay away from others, proper ventilation in rooms, eat a healthy diet etc. and if you wish, get vaccinated.
Getting tested before seeing loved ones at major gatherings might be helpful, too.
Aaron Rogers may not have been very sick from Covid, but his case was caught via testing. Hopefully he didn’t spread it to others who might have become more ill.
We will eventually get the Covid pandemic under control and when that happens boosters may not be needed or needed so often.
I do not believe the overwhelming majority of the information we are receiving is one sided. That would be saying that every country in the world is conspiring together to give misinformation.
That would be saying every county health department in every state in our nation and every hospital is conspiring to give misinformation.
This I do know. Three of my friends have died from Covid. None of my friends have died or had ill effects from the vaccine.
My mom lives in a retirement center. Prior to the vaccines coming out there were many cases of Covid especially in the nursing home /rehab section. And quite a few in independent living where she is. These cases were brought in by people who worked there.
Since the vaccine there has not been a single case of Covid among the independent living residents. There have been some in the nursing home section but there is a high turnover of people on and out of rehab there and not all might have been vaccinated.
And I am sure some cases were due to breakthrough.
Some people were skeptical about the polio vaccine when it came out. And I am sure some were skeptical about the smallpox vaccine. You don’t see those in the USA anymore.
I looked up medical records yesterday and I had 6 polio vaccines as a child. Obviously none since.
Keep in mind that Covid 19 is a new disease. It appeared only 2 years ago. You can’t expect perfect treatments or perfect prevention in that amount of time.
And Phoiph, I am always happy to see you present the other side. You just don’t seem to like it when I don’t agree with everything.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Hiker,
I'm happy to agree to disagree; nothing personal here...and I sincerely hope we can continue to publicly voice our views and differences in this country.
I can tell by your reply that we are seeing the "big picture" through different lenses, and that is OK.
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"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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I agree that there is still so much to learn about treatment...
But WHY is there still so much to learn about prevention and treatment When they can mass produce a "vaccine" at warp speed?
Why was/is the "vaccine" the only focus?
Many effective and inexpensive prevention and treatment protocols used by legitimate doctors have been censored and removed from public view.
Sadly, like many LLMD's, many of these docs have had to go under the radar to treat their patients.
Instead (as mentioned at the end of the "fastcompany" article posted above), the media and public sets their sights on the future drug as the new big thing.
Dexamethasone was only one of several treatment options that Dr. McCullough mentioned in the interview.
If it turns out to only prevent deaths in males and is less effective for females, than so be it...that's still helpful for half of the population. There are more options available.
For example, can you imagine how many lives might have been saved if there had been a prevention campaign when the low Vitamin D level/Covid death connection was discovered early on?
Free testing and Vitamin D supplementation could have been one of many inexpensive prevention strategies to improve people's awareness and immune health.
You have to dig for that information...but we sure hear a lot about the next great drug roll out!
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Phoiph
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I think the initial focus was on prevention in terms of social, distancing, personal hygiene and then mask wearing.
To learn what drugs or supplements work to prevent Covid takes more time and double blind studies need to be done. Or enough studies done that their data can be collectively analyzed. That takes time.
Does it take more time than developing a vaccine? I don’t know the answer.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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This study suggests that vitamin D is indeed helping in moderating Inflammation caused by T cells but also suggests it is not the type of vitamin D you would buy at a drugstore (like vitamin D3)
Too much vitamin D3 is harmful.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Hiker...
Please clarify, because it sounds like what you're saying is that Vitamin D, which has been used safely forever (and had already proven effective as a preventative against death from Covid19 when the letter went out to governments), wouldn't have been a viable option because it would've taken too much time to do lengthy studies?
But...it is OK to inject a brand new, experimental mRNA therapy on a global scale...without the lengthy studies and testing normally required of a new drug or vaccine?
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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The article you posted says the letter is based on multiple observances as well as RCTs.
I wish they had listed some of the randomized controlled trials.
Also says may take 10 times daily amount recommended by UK.
Seems like different studies have different results. What they agree on is vitamin D helps inflammation.
I guess with a pandemic they are desperate to get a better prevention.
And I will repeat too much Vitamin D can harm the body. No harm in taking the amount in the UK letter as long as you monitor with blood tests. Fat soluble vitamins get stored and can cause liver and kidney issues.
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10174 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Phoiph
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Did you read the actual letter signed by over 200 doctors and scientists (second link)?
You will find references and studies.
Regarding safety, they're not promoting mega doses. Here's a quote from the letter:
"...Vitamin D’s safety is more like that of face masks. There is no need to wait for further clinical trials to increase use of something so safe, especially when remedying high rates of deficiency/insufficiency should already be a priority..."
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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posted
thank you for sharing the information, it's important now
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Phoiph
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I agree. Glad the discussion is helpful.
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Phoiph
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As of February 1, Austria is mandating "vaccinations" for their entire population, and currently imposing a lock down for unvaccinated citizens only, with fines imposed. Papers will be checked for anyone in public.
Other countries are following, imposing fines and refusing public services and government assistance, access to resources, etc., to the unvaccinated only.
Maybe they haven't heard mRNA therapy doesn't prevent infection or spread? Or that infected people, regardless of vaccination status carry the same load of virus and are equally contagious?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Phoiph
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The lockdowns and mandates are creating huge crowds of demonstrators, protestors, and rioters now, when keeping people apart is their goal...
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Phoiph
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An interpretation of the statistics we're receiving:
They are hoping it would create a skin reaction at the bite (itching redness) in hopes that the person would pull off the tick before it can transmit disease. It doesn't prevent transmission, however they are thinking of also "loading" it with mRNA that targets the pathogen.
We can only wonder how someone's immune system who has/has had chronic Lyme would react.
Posts: 2072 | From Earth | Registered: Jul 2013
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They are hoping it would create a skin reaction at the bite (itching redness) in hopes that the person would pull off the tick before it can transmit disease. It doesn't prevent transmission, however they are thinking of also "loading" it with mRNA that targets the pathogen.
We can only wonder how someone's immune system who has/has had chronic Lyme would react.
No, thank you.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Phoiph
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Let's not forget there was a Lyme vaccine that was taken off the market.
I know someone badly injured by that one...horrible relapse and has not recovered.
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