Topic: What would you take if you got no more lyme disease?
hardynaka
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Member # 8099
posted
I'm just wondering what would people take as supps/ herbs when you dont' have lyme anymore.
I mean, no more symptoms.
Or what would you do not to relapse?
It's a total new phase for me, so I'm sort of lost.
I'm thinking to keep on cleansers (chlorella, zeolite sometimes, cilantro, minerals).
Anyone got an idea if milk thistle could do harm if we take it even when not needed?
Then: - omega 3, - flaxseed oil and/or other oils - propolis, royal jelly, honey, biprolex - eleuthero tincture - some vitamins sometimes (like vit E or C).
Any other suggestions/ ideas?
Thanks,
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
So you have been treatd and are now symptom-free? At the end of your treatment were you given a course of metronidazol or tinidazol, to kill the "cystic forms" of the lyme spirochete? These abx-resistant forms can develop as a result of treatment, and can morph back into normal lyme spirochetes when treatment is stopped. This is what can cause a relapse.
Other than that, I would just eat as well as possible, and take supplements in accordance with how you are feeling and info you find, etc.
The flaxseed oil is definitely very good for you to take. Milk thistle regularly, but not every day is probably a good idea (though I don't normally take it). The other things you mention are probably good, to-- At this rate you'll end up healthier than you were before lyme! That would indeed be a happy ending!
For a while (rebuilding), you might want to take 'nutrajoint' (a lousy-tasting powder you mix with something and drink...) to repair all the joint tissue damaged by the lyme. Other extra vitamin supplements are probably good to take. But most important is good diet and exercise, at this point. Gradually build up-- when I was at that stage I was in pretty sad shape, and was more susceptible to injury. Best wishes! DaveS
[ 19. February 2007, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: HaplyCarlessdave ]
Posts: 4567 | From ithaca, NY, usa | Registered: Nov 2000
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5dana8
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posted
Hi Hardynaka
I have been in lucky over the years to have been able to get in lyme remmission and tended to stick with the supps & herbs that I know are over all good for my immune system and would also support my body post lyme.
And I also think trying to keep my diet as good as possible helps alot to.
But in a nut shell I have always acted as if I still had lyme. I am a strong believer that once I have chronic lyme(or whatever word is in vogue right now) & co-infections I will always be vulnerable to a lyme relaspe at some point.
I may be able to reduce the germ load & if I am really lucky have the lyme go dormant.
My list has changed much over the years as I have found out more information on what is good for the immune system & the body as a whole post lyme..
sorry to be so vague.
hope this helps in some way
stay well Dana
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I would be diligent with all everyone has said thus far.
I am a firm beliver in cat's claw to stimulate the immune system. I would use this along with anything else that has worked to keep the immune system up.
Posts: 582 | From milwaukee wi | Registered: May 2005
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clairenotes
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posted
Hi Selma,
I would hope that we can drop some of our supplements, but I think that many of the things we take to help support ourselves during this illness are still valid even afterward.
Chlorella provides so many other rich nutrients, besides its' role as a metal detoxer. I am sure it would be a nice supplement to keep. But hopefully not at detoxing doses.
It is also believed that we need more vitamins and, especially minerals, than is recommended anyway, so I wouldn't abandon this. Same with the oils.
Depending on age, certain formulations that support various organ systems might be in order too. I really believe in liver function support formulations and/or practices. It is a major detox organ. Lympathic system is important, too. And definitely the immune system.
This might just be a time of experimentation to see what you need in the end.
So great you are doing well. Hope that doesn't mean you will stop posting here. I always value your input.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I'm a long term chronic lymie. After a miracle like acupuncture treatment I was in remission for many years.
But in Aug 1998 I had the hepatis B vaccination that put me into a relaspe. Old & new symptoms came back with the addition of the seizures & intense back rib pain. Thus the reason I'm here.
Just thought you should know this short story in hopes that something doesn't set you off.
-------------------- Pat Sr Posts: 63 | From Toms River,NJ | Registered: Oct 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Thank you for all your ideas.
DAVE, I never took any cyst busters, nor abx... Do you think these are really a MUST?
I'm still not symptom totally free as I still got chills sometimes, and probably some bartonella around. At least, that was what my naturopath told me last time I saw her. But I feel I'm getting close to an end (if I don't relapse)...
I guess I didn't have much joint damage, as I got pain for only about 4-5 months, no swelling, and then these were gone for good (so far).
What are the stuff you take regularly? Are you symptom free?
DANA: what did you take for your immune system? I mean, I guess it's not good to stimulate it too much nor to leave it too lazy... I guess immunomodulant things would be good? Would you have any suggestions on that?
JOHN: do you mean whole cats claw? or samento? I was exactly thinking about that, like taking one pill or two of whole cats claw a day or so... Have you been doing that for long?
CLAIRE: what would you do to keep your liver healthy? I mean, I feel I don't need much of my milk thistle lately (for the FIRST time since I caught lyme...), I'm still surprised as I thought I was going to need it forever...
This mantainance 'protocol' is sort of so new for me, I'm really lost... Would you recommend me a liver flush or so from times to times? I never did that as I feared diarrheas while with strong sx... Now I guess I would be braver to try.
Glad to see people read what I write sometimes.
But I guess I won't post for very long if I don't have anything new to tell (I mean, if I get totally symptomless sometime in the future). I'm still battling my athlete's foot (pre-lyme problem), but it's also going into an end (KNOCK ON WOOD).
I guess I would be in shock if ART can't see any borrelia in me anymore, as I was expecting one more year of a healing process... I postponed my next week appointment for April. I feel a bit chicken, but let's see what will happen.
Thanks LISI for info. Fortunately I don't take any prescription meds but I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to try to study a bit more about what to do with my liver!
And MRG, could you tell us more about your accupuncture treatment that made you go into remission?
I would really like to know. Was the accupuncturist balanciing your meridians, treating symptoms, enhancing your immune system? Did you know you had lyme (and your accupuncturist too?).
I appreciate any new ideas. I would do anything to keep lyme dormant!!
Diet is no problem. I'm less strict not to eat wheat and milk products now, but I'm still controling myself. As for alcohol, it's difficult as I like wine. But I'm a moderate drinker, so far, I try not to pass my 1 glass a day (but not religiously)...
Many thanks, And I'm still welcoming new suggestions! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
For everyday maintenance I really like NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) and whey protein. Somehow, in combination I feel that my liver functions at a much higher level. There are glutathione precursors in whey, which help with detoxing processes. Also, the protein is nice. I mix mine in rice milk because of dairy sensitivities.
I do like liver cleanses and have done four now, but not recently. It is a bit strange, but I believe it really increases our health. It could be something to think about down the road.
Note that anything said here is personal opinion and not medical advice.
Hope this helps.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
here's my short list for the immune system & some thrown in because I wouldn't want to do without:
*coconut milk/oil or monolaurin *mushrooms-either "reishi Max by pharmanex or cordy ceps-the first one being better I think for the immune sytem the cordy better for me for energy *essential oils-fish oil,Plant-flax oil,primrose oil ect.. Whey protein powder vit. E Vit. C acid free powder Niacin seleium biotin Acetyl-L-Carnitine-currently for energy calcium Eleuthero root olive leaf extract Garlic pro-biotics-kefir-yogurt
here's a couple of posts with good feedback & some good links:
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Hi Selma: I agree with keeping the Lymph System clear. THAT is why I will keep taking Red Root tincture, it does a lot more than milk thistle does for you.
AND for sure I will keep taking Sarsaparilla, probably for the rest of my life. And also Devil's Claw.
THAT IS IF I ever get to feel I am "cured" of Lyme. After 7 years I don't know IF that will ever happen.
And by all means keep on with heavy vitamin C, and also some vitamin E.
And of course you will want to keep Astragalus nearby at ALL times, just in case.
Seriously, I would keep taking supplements and probiotics, eating organic fruits and veggies, and exercising a heck of a lot more...all aerobic..x-c skiing and skydiving for starters! What would we do if we din't have Lyme, the list is endless!
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posted
Vitamins , N acetyl cysteine & selenium, and possibly try a few months of the salt/ C protocol to keep the bugs from coming back.
I would probably also pulse the andrographis and resveratrol - a month on a month off for a year or til I had several months of NO symptoms.
I have also heard very good things about 4life transfer factor which is supposedly a good immune booster . Also , beta glucan is a good immune booster .
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I guess I'll have to spend a few more hours or reading. Thanks a lot DANA for the wonderful links!! And for your precious list!
The super food link is very good, and I'm glad I don't have to consult it, as I eat them ALL very often (except tomatoes and blueberries). Gigi's idea sounds good. As for tomatoes, I guess I'm allergic to them.
And for everyone, I can't take any milk products. Organic goat whey is intolerable, even dissolved in warm water.
I wonder if I can tolerate Kefir... I can't take yoghurt (tested bad through ART). The only milk product I take is butter (and ghee). So far, no problem and I crave for them (different from yoghurt that is yucky!).
JIM, I already added everything you said in my 'provisory preventive protocol' (except for devil's claw). Take a look in the yahoo forum, my newest post.
WILDCONDOR: red wine is really not bad, I don't feel guilty when I take a cup of it daily. Before I couldn't tolerate due to alcohol content, but now I feel it's doing no harm. It's a good source of resveratrols. And good reminder to exercise!!!
NAC is said to help DANA and ANN... I'm going to take a look into it.
I guess I got enough ideas to start shaping this preventive/ mantainance protocol.
Thanks a lot, Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Just read a disturbing article about 'Aspartame' on www.dorway.com It is in many foods, also chewing gum and diet drinks.
The list of symptoms is enormous - even mentions lyme disease. Doesn't sound safe from what it says. So perhaps this should be avoided.
Posts: 67 | From UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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hardynaka
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Member # 8099
posted
PAT/ MRG, thanks for your story. Are you still doing accupuncture now?
My mom just called me to say her back pain that was not cured by anything all doctors gave her finally disappeared with a few sessions of accupuncture.
I guess, for the ones who can afford, it could be helpful!!
I was glad to hear KLUTZO is doing better with accupuncture, it's the first time I feel her so positive !!!
ANN, thanks. I guess I'll be doing my KMT sometimes, it's a good reminder. Specially after this mild winter, ticks are already around!
I still don't consider myself in remission at all as I'm still fighting bugs, but I feel soooo close as I never felt. Firts time in 10 years I feel I got this awful athlete foot's under control. Still not cured though.
SIENNA, yes, aspartame looks bad. I read ALL labels of things I consume, I never take diet products (I guess I'm too skinny for that), and try to eat the least processed foods possible.
It can still go out of control, though, as I know not all ingredients are listed...
Thank you all again.
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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I've been on maintenance for about 1 1/2 years and still find that different herbs taken for the first time help with cleaning out old problems.
Lyme has so many co-infections that it's difficult to know when they've vacated. Sooo....
The Mycocide product from Enzymes International is outstanding for yeast & fungus overgrowth that so many of us have had. You will herx if you still have any Candida issues or similar.
For maintenance I still take Cat's Claw, Sarsaparilla, Olive Leaf Extract, Garlic- the new Allimax Garlic is worth a try; Grape Seed Extract, Alfalfa, and a good quality North American Ginseng.
When you say you are still combating bugs--- is that Babesia or something else?
Good to hear you are doing so much better.
Blue Skies.........John
Posts: 134 | From North Carolina | Registered: Sep 2004
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Carol in PA
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Member # 5338
posted
quote:Originally posted by hardynaka: I'm still battling my athlete's foot (pre-lyme problem), but it's also going into an end (KNOCK ON WOOD).
Selma, here is some info that may help with the athlete's foot problem:
What has been reported to me by a listener and now used successfully by many to cure toenail fungus (or athlete's foot) is to put 1'' of cornmeal in a flat pan that's large enough for your feet.
Add enough room temperature water to cover the cornmeal. Let sit for an hour then add warm water for comfort, enough to cover the feet and soak for about 2 hours.
...any cornmeal seems to work. Soak feet for over an hour. More than one treatment may be needed.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
CAROL, thanks for your tip.
Sorry for my stupid question: what is cornmeal? Is it like shredded corn?? My native language is not English...
Webster says 'meal ground for corn'. It looks a bit like corn flower (unrefined) in the photo.
JOHN, thanks also for mycocide info. I read their website (enzymesinternational.com) but I can't understand if this is to be taken orally (Mycocide I and II). I guess so....
I'm looking for a permanent solution, not temporary. I'm pretty sure that anything topic is only temporary solution, that's why I ask.
Did you also suffer from funghi/ athlete's foot? My infection is pre-lyme. It's not common athlete's foot as I almost never get in between toes, but ONLY on exterior parts. It comes in the first day of cold weather in autumn to disappear in the first day of warm weather in the beginning of summer. Very long.
A few topical things relieve symptoms, but none was solution so far. For the first time in the last decade, it seems to be evoluting for good now with rizols, zeolite and metal detox.
All those stuff are ingested, not really topically applied (except for rizols foot baths I do once a day or once every two days). Too good to believe that I may get rid of it, so I don't want to raise my expectations yet!! Just crossing fingers.
I 'herxed' immensely on rizols. My liver was overloaded. I start to believe these funghi were everywhere, not only on skin. I had almost 2 month continuous herxes and an almost 'collapse' due to excess of toxins in January.
I guess I would give a try on your Micocide suggestion if rizols fail. But I'm really betting on metal detoxing for a permanent solution.
What is alfafa good for?
I guess I'm still fighting bartonella, as my fingers are still a bit swollen. But I'm not sure these finger problems were internal funghi or anything else. My skin got now blackened exactly like when skin funghi die. The black color is deep inside my joints, it looks my hands are from a dead person!
In December they got red and painful, then water started to come out in January, it looked like eczema, now it's all dry and my skin got blackened from the inside. Similar as on my feet. That's why I suspect some funghi, not skin, but internal, joint funghi. Urgh...
I sometimes get chills (once a day or less ), when I'm extremely tired (it generally starts after 1 AM). I wonder if these are from bart/ lyme or from fatigue.
I'm finding these last phases for cure more difficult to grasp. It's difficult to build a protocol, as you say. For me, I'm lucky to have a good ART practioner, who sees amazing things (which bug I still have active, which treatment could work).
She had seen I had bartonella since April last year. I had babesia for sure, but I never knew what were my bart symptoms and was not sure I believed her. I only got real bart rashes (cat scratch) this January/ February ! Almost a year after she saw bart in me! Now I'm a full believer I have bart (or had). Knotweed is helping for that (or has helped).
She also had seen viruses in my brain and parasites in my intestines at least twice last year, for which she treated me. I didn't know I had any of these, but after I started treatment for these parallel infections , I got 'herxes'/ sweats/ fatigue then fast improvement. After that I started believing I had all those parallel beasts (non-tick related).
Now she told me if I want to get well for good, I need to treat my canal roots. That's what I intend to do sometime in the near future. The problem is finance only.
the only clear bug I'm fighting now is skin funghi. All lyme and tick co-infections, I'm not that sure as I dont' see clear improvement in anything else after herbs (because I have not much symptoms, I guess...). I'll try to go to bed before 2 am tonight to see if I skip my daily chill attack.
Your posts always inspired me. Good to know you're well and thanks for sharing your 'maintenance protocol'.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Mycocide is taken internally; it's a liquid that we take sublingually for yeast, fungus, and the black carrot root in that formula has antiviral activity.
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