-------------------- sunnymalibu Posts: 192 | From california | Registered: Jul 2006
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
I hope someone reads it and translates it. I am all tangled up in my berka and about to take a nap after an exhausting yoga class topped with 2 fish tacos with black beans and rice.
Wake me up when it has been translated and someone has translated Marnie's insights as well.
Cyclic AMP is perhaps the most important cell-regulating compound. Once formed it activates many other enzymes involved in diverse cellular functions. Under normal situations cAMP is formed when a stimulatory hormone (e.g., epinephrine) binds to a receptor site on the cell membrane and stimulates the activation of adenylate cyclase. This enzyme is incorporated into all cellular membranes and only the specificity of the receptor determines which hormone will activate it in a particular cell. In the case of forskolin, it can aide in a number of biological processes, explained in further detail below.
Forskolin appears to bypass this need for direct hormonal activation of adenylate cyclase via transmembrane activation. As a result of this activation of adenylate cyclase intracellular cAMP levels rise. The physiological and biochemical effects of a raised intracellular cAMP level include: inhibition of platelet activation and degranulation; inhibition of mast cell degranulation and histamine release; increased force of contraction of heart muscle; relaxation of the arteries and other smooth muscles; increased insulin secretion; increased thyroid function; and increased lipolysis (fat destruction). Recent studies have found forskolin to possess additional mechanisms of action independent of its ability to directly stimulate adenylate cyclase and cAMP dependent physiological responses. Specifically forskolin has been shown to inhibit a number of membrane transport proteins and channel proteins through a mechanism that does not involve the production of cAMP. The result is again a transmembrane signaling that results in activation of other cellular enzymes.
By raising cAMP, forskolin is responsible for:
Inhibition of mast cell degranulation and histamine release. Increased force of contraction of heart muscle. Relaxation of the arteries and other smooth muscle. Increased insulin secretion. Increased thyroid function. Increased lipolysis (breakdown of fat
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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Do you know where I can buy the Forskolin in Tincture form?
thanks B
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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lymeHerx001
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posted
Does Bb also go after mucosal epithelium in the sinus?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
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posted
Bb has zinc fingers..cysteine and histIdine bound to zinc.
Histidine -> histAmine.
Allergic reaction.
IgE.
Supposedly this means you are getting better i.e., when IgE goes up.
That is the "allergic reaction".
Which for some is obvious from the get-go...i.e., the rash.
Did some Bb's forget to put on a trenchcoat? (No salp 15 protein picked up from the tick's saliva) and thus was unable to "buy time" to infect?
Bb looks to infect the cells that line our blood vessels, the epithelial cells.
Where it "lands" ultimately is usually in the lymph nodes throughout the body.
As I understand it.
Scand J Immunol. 2007 Apr;65(4):376-82
IgE anti-Borrelia burgdorferi components (p18, p31, p34, p41, p45, p60) and increased blood CD8+CD60+ T cells in children with Lyme disease.
Immunoglobulin (Ig) E may provide immunity against Borrelia burgdorferi infection (Lyme disease) in children which lasts throughout adulthood.
These results demonstrate that specific IgE anti-B. burgdorferi Abs are generated and persist in children with Lyme disease and that CD8(+)CD60(+) T cells may play an important role in these responses.
PMID: 17386029
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
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posted
BJG...sent the link you requested.
You are aware of all the known interactions, warnings and other, right?
Warfarin, not when pregnant, maybe skin tanning...etc.
I "smile" about the melanin connection!
Old files...
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
I think one could drink lemon water until the cows come home and try to eat alkaline as well but what has really helped my health is drinking alkaline water all day long from my water ionizer. The body is made up of a heck of a lot of water.
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posted
Vanilli: Seems like getting the skunk out of your life has been good for your health too! A sense of humor can't hurt... thanks for adding a dash of this and shake of that to our menu!
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Do we know if the Lizzard maintains high levels of any specific antioxidants? Perhaps there is one that Bb can't use effectively to protect itself?
Bb seems to steal the things we need to make our own protection. Does this cause us to be hurt by our own defenses?
I know that artemisin works against Babesia by causing major production of ROS. That is why the antioxidants are so important when Txing with it.
I know there are things I have to read up on to really grasp this, but I keep coming back & trying. I think I'm understanding, while I'm reading, but it seems my retention is down & disorganized thinking is up.
The forskolin & the d-cycloserine definitely interest me. Thanks for that, Marnie.
I'd like to try to make an intelligent case for the d-cycloserine to my LLMD but I'm having difficulty locating studies to support an arguement to advocate for a switch.
I might be at a point in my Tx right now, where a change may be in order. I'd really like to give this a shot.
Any chance you could post links to the studies that support the d-cycloserine's benefit to neuropathy, aspergers, etc...
I just looked somewhere else & look what I found!!! Goodies in Science Direct !!(search for "d-cycloserine")
Maybe I can find something there. I may need to take a break, I just had massive wavy lights appear across my field of vision. I hope I remember to go back to this before my computer locks up or something.
Thanks again for posting this and for making such an effort to make it "Lyme-Brain" digestible.
If I'm correct in my understanding of what I have read, I need to make an effort to fully grasp the "Forskolin & curcumin combo" & "d-cycloserine". When I have a thorough enough understanding to speak intelligently, I will approach LLMD.
Thanks again, Ali
[ 29. July 2007, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Marnie
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He might "justify" trying D-cycloserine for your complaint of nerve pain?
Since melatonin ALSO raises cAMP, I suspect the increased cAMP in that lizard -> less melatonin...protection.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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northstar
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posted
Since melatonin ALSO raises cAMP, I suspect the increased cAMP in that lizard -> less melatonin...protection.
Marnie, I may be reading more into this than what is there.
I read that you suggest:
less melatonin is protection? but only if the cAMP is high?
Otherwise, all previous postings about benefits of melatonin contradict that less melatonin leads to protection?
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Marnie
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posted
Our body makes superoxide - a dangerous free radical - as well as H2O2 every split second.
These normally destroy pathogens...even some spore forms!
We are doing this constantly...fighting off pathogens. Know how many germs are on our kitchen counters?
Now, the cells can't STAY acidic or they will die, so in jumps (really fast) the antioxidant enzymes.
The most abundant is catalase. Glutathione peroxidase and superoxide dismutase are the others.
Bb could be destroyed by superoxide, H2O2, etc. if it were not for the anti-oxidant and anti-oxidant enzymes protecting.
This is why O3 saunas work.
O3 is trivalent. POWERFUL. The botulism anti-toxin is trivalent too.
Hyperbaric helps...a LOT...too expensive.
But in the works is a device coming out of Canada to attach to O2 masks to help treat CO (carbon monoxide) poisoning. Normally when people are poisoned by CO, they are given 100% O2 and/or put into a hyperbaric chamber.
This new device (cheap retrofit) apparently boost O2 delivery substantially.
Does Bb have carbon monoxide dehydrogenase? Is it using CO2->CO?
Unfortunately it appears so.
Some pathogens use CO as their sole carbon source.
Bb is not a strict anaerobe. It needs a LITTLE oxygen, not much.
The trick is...flipping the infected cellular switch back from glycolysis to oxidative phosphorylation.
Use sugar to make ATP = 2 ATP
Use sugar + O2 to make ATP = 36 ATP
When we make a LOT more ATP this will drive Mg back INTO the cells...
Clear...or clear as mud?
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Vanilla
Unregistered
posted
Marnie if one had lyme how much phosphatidyl serine would one want to take daily and how many times a day?
WOW, what post. You sounded smart! For everyone else BJG lives near me and I know her true colors, so I have to tease her. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10171 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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AliG
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posted
Marnie,
You're saying we need to make more ATP. I just read something on Carnivora that states it interferes with the pathogens ATP and blocks it's protein synthesis. I bolded a couple of statements in it regarding ATP and I'm wondering if I can get your opinion. carnivora thread
Thanks, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Ali...the HPA axis is off.
My axis must be off alright! That might be a very good argument for me. Thanks.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Marnie
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posted
Venus Fly trap...
J Biol Chem. 1999 May 7;274(19):13362-9.
Mutagenesis and modeling of the GABAB receptor extracellular domain support a venus flytrap mechanism for ligand binding.
Binds to Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) beta receptors?
Stick with me...
Melatonin looks to be upregulated to provide antioxidant support since glutathione is kapoot as Bb is depleting cysteine and glycine...leaving behind only glutamate.
"Perfusion with melatonin (for 19 consecutive hours) prevented the daytime reductions in both GLU (glutamate, stimulatory) and GABA (Gamma-aminobutyric acid, inhibitory).
Melatonin ongoing = glutamate and GABA stay too high?
The results also suggest that the day:night variations in GLU and GABA may relate to daily changes in endogenous melatonin production, while DA (dopamine) and its metabolites are minimally influenced by this secretory product."
I suspect dopamine goes up to try to pull the reigns in on melatonin since I read they work "opposite"...normally.
Is dopamine going up to lower melatonin levels, to then expose Bb to damaging free radicals which might destroy it?
If you want to "Rx" the GABAB receptors, get your mits on Acamprosate (used to treat alcoholics).
WAIT A SECOND!
This also looks to impact the NMDA receptors as well...these are the glutamate receptors!
"Thus, acamprosate may concomitantly enhance NMDA-EPSP/Cs while blocking presynaptic GABA(B) receptor-mediated inhibition of GABA release. "
Getting into the herbs:
To make a good herbal product, the manufacturing process must address the active constituents and these must be soluble using the method employed by the herbalist.
***In other words, although there are clinical studies showing that carnivora (Venus fly trap) is a potent anticancer herb, the studies were done using sterile extracts and intravenous injections.***
Nothing in the studies suggested that a capsule containing the same herb would be effective.
So, if we need to avail ourselves of the active ingredients, we need to know whether they are water or alcohol soluble and how best to administer the herbs.
That is issue number one.
Issue number two is how to make a safe product.
According to ancient herbal traditions, ***all herbs are synergistic.*** They work best in combination with other herbs. Tibetans go one step further. By clairvoyant observations dating back at least 800 years, they found that the active ingredient of all herbs is
[ 29. July 2007, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
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Marnie
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posted
Up for Ali. See my post above.
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AliG
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posted
Thanks Marnie,
This is really interesting! Great links too.
I had to go back & read this several times. I know I'm getting it while I read, but it's not sticking. I may have to read again on a better brain day.
I would have replied sooner, but I got bumped off the computer & couldn't get back on. Sorry.
So now I need to talk LLMD into: [LIST] [*]d-cycloserine (I was reading up on the different scientific studies earlier), [*]acamprosate (If I got the jist, this would cover the benefit of the fly-trap and better? What about the downregulation of the pathogen's ATP?) [*]forskolin [*]turmeric/curcumin
Or did I scramble this?
Here's a dilemma... I'll have to give the scientific justification on the acomprosate, I really don't think he'll buy it if I tell him I've had a drinking problem. I'm not a very good liar.
I am going back to re-read again, though I'm not very hopeful tonight.
[ 30. July 2007, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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aklnwlf
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posted
Wow Marnie,
I wish I could comprehend what you're posting here! It seems vitally important!
I was taking Tumeric for awhile but didn't stick with it. It didn't seem to do a whole lot for me.
One thing I wondered about is that I'm too alkaline and have blood sugars that bottom out from time too time.
I'm not quite understanding what we should be taking here. I've done the entire protocol for Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella which was also supposed to take care of the Mycloplasma.
Been in treatment since 2004 including 4 months of IV and 5 months straight of oral Levaquin.
Still not up to snuff.
Also have one of the Herpes virus and Epstein Barr virus.
Break out every month on Tindamax and was told recently I might also have Morgellons.
What's a person to do.
I have started walking about 4 days a week not long after arising to set my Circadian Rythym and reap all the other benefits of early morning exersize.
Drink plenty of water too and do deep breathing techniques while walking to increase my blood oxygen level.
Watch my diet too. Am a vegetarian but eat fish, eggs and some cheese.
Take Envira liquid vitamins and a couple of other things too.
Have low hormones, cortisol and HGH and am using plant derived creams and exersize to increase those levels, (hopefully).
Anymore advice Marnie would be so much appreciated.
Also how to tone down the central nervous system? Am drinking a Tanquerey and Tonic with Lemon and take muscle relaxers and Ambien CR and am still up at 3:48 am.
What would you suggest??
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Anyway...when we "fight" a disease, our adrenal glands kick in to defend us. This disrupts the HPA axis. The adrenal glands signal the hypothalamus and pituitary to alter their hormone production. There is a supp. that supposedly corrects this axis. PhosphatidylSerine.
Marnie, I am new to this list, but unfortunately not at all new to Lyme and its coinfections. I am still wading through this info and trying to digest it, but I was struck by point about PhosphatidylSerine. It is one of the "core supplements" used in Amy Lasko's protocol. Here is a cut and paste from an article written by Richard Van Konynenburg who is a researcher who has been working on a simplified version of Lasko's protocol for CFS/ME: "1/4 tablet (200 micrograms) Folapro (Folapro is 5-methyl tetrahydrofolate, an active form of folate, which is sold by Metagenics with a license from Merck, which holds the patent on synthesis).
1/4 tablet Intrinsic B12/folate (This includes 200 micrograms of folate as a combination of folic acid, 5-methyl tetrahydrofolate, and 5-formyl tetrahydrofolate, aka folinic acid or leucovorin (another active form of folate), 125 micrograms of vitamin B12 as cyanocobalamin, 22.5 milligrams of calcium, 17.25 milligrams of phosphorus, and 5 milligrams of intrinsic factor)
(up to) 2 tablets (It's best to start with 1/4 tablet and work up as tolerated) Complete vitamin and ultra-antioxidant from Holistic Health Consultants (This is a multivitamin, multimineral supplement with some additional ingredients. It does not contain iron or copper, and it has a high ratio of magnesium to calcium. It contains antioxidants, some trimethylglycine, some nucleotides, and several supplements to support the sulfur metabolism.)
1 softgel capsule Phosphatidyl Serine Complex (This includes the phospholipids and some fatty acids)
1 sublingual lozenge Perque B12 (2,000 micrograms hydroxocobalamin with some mannitol, sucanat, magnesium and cherry extract) [ Optional:] 1 capsule SAMe (200 mg S-adenosylmethionine)
1/3 dropper, 2X/day Methylation Support Nutriswitch Formula (This is an RNA mixture designed to help the methylation cycle. It is not essential, but is reported to be helpful.)
January 25, 2007
Suggestions for Treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) based on the Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block Hypothesis for the Pathogenesis of CFS
Richard A. Van Konynenburg, Ph.D.
(Independent Researcher and Consultant"
The Phosphatidyl Serine is marketd under the name "Seriphos". THIS IS NOT A PROTOCOL YOU SHOULD TRY ON YOUR OWN as there have been some severe reactions. This protocol is directed towards breaking a block in the methylation cycle of NO synthesis. In my (very limited!) understanding I believe this is mostly closely linked to the function of macrophages in the immune system, and I was wondering if you could direct me to any information on their (dis)function in lyme patients. I belive Rivka here is considering this protocol, but I wondered what you thought of it, how much you knew about it because in some ways it seems to be in congruence with your own thoughts.
-------------------- Valerie *********************************** "A woman is like a tea bag- you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." Eleanor Roosevelt Posts: 63 | From Jim Thorpe, PA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Do you know if the Seromycin is considered to have any effect on Bb? We are going to LLMD in about a week and will ask her about it.
Dd has been on IV abx for 19 months with limited success. She has severe anxiety attacks and also has had past tb exposure. Seems like a dream come true to us if it is an option for fighting Bb. Any additional info you could share would be most appreciated!
Thanks, Suzy
Posts: 260 | From Virginia | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Marnie, My LLMD did a vitamin/amino acid study and I was extremely deficient in Vitamin D and Serine. Do these low levels fit in with your theory?
He wants me to take 5000 mg a day of Vit D but didn't say anything about how to address the Serine issue.
I too am really trying to understand, it's just a little above my lyme brain right now.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Posts: 237 | From WV | Registered: Mar 2007
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Marnie
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posted
See my post today (Pellegra) and watch closely as to WHY serine might be low.
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the Forskolin in Tincture form?![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Thanks for that, Marnie.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I hope I remember to go back to this before my computer locks up or something.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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