Topic: My hubby sent me this link...has anyone tried this??
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
More from Gary Blier at current website with ***** added:
How can this fix everything?
It seems unreasonable.
It can't fix everything, but I understand the sentiment. Remember, this is not for critical care. It won't fix a broken bone.
I certainly agree it is hard to grasp that a process could heal so many things. It is because we are dealing at a foundational behavioral level.
**********************
If the body is fighting a peanut - and anaphylaxis results - you can make it love the peanut. ***************************** If your body fights ragweed, you can change its behavior. If your body isn't fighting a parasite, why not have it kill the thing? Got osteoporosis? Maybe you could convince your body to welcome in the calcium instead of filtering it out. These are all very different health conditions with the same foundational causes.
Traditional medicine's genetic approach to "immune system training" might work! And, why I think it won't.
Geneticists know the key to immunity is about the immune system's behavior. Though history it has been clear that everyone exposed to a disease does not contract the disease. I think the horror of AIDS brought the point home.
**************Some people simply don't get AIDS regardless of the needle they use. ************************************** What was seen as the difference between those who do and those who don't - the immune system's behavior!
Geneticists hope that by isolating the part of the genetic code responsible for immune behavior they will be able to convert it into a vaccine. They hope this vaccine, when injected into an AIDS victim, will change the immune response - and the victim will also become immune. Though I am certain some great things will come from this, I doubt it is going to work that way. Why?
Because it is a behavioral issue! We don't teach behavior by injection.
!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
I guess some of you have missed my saying that I did try this technique and found it to be a scam.
There were one or two others who had the same remarks.
So I don't understand how you pro scam artists can post that we did'nt try this thing?
Lymenet rule aside.
Is there nothing, anywhere, that protects we lymenetters against fraudulent claims?
I mean HELLO!
I tried it and it's a fraud! A Scam! No doubt about it.
So why is there even a discussion?
You pro scam folks are sure burnning your user names left and right!
Now before I am banned from this site for merely speaking the truth.
I call on the monitors to have these people investigated. FBI,CIA,LDA,ILADS....anyone who is not on the side of lymenet adversaries.
Anyone, who is not an organization set on destroying help giving websites like this one.
Anyone, who is NOT on the pharm or steere payroll.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
LAST post- from LymeBlog (and baby is waking up-) *************************************** LymeBlog - Users Journal
"I personally know three of the people who Gary Blier attached there names. They are both very angry that there names are attached to this company. Some have requested, even demanded that Gary Blier remove there names, ...
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
I forgot something very important so I just had to come back and let everyone know.
Like I said, I did try this lymefree thing and no,nada,nothing,
not one red cent, not a penny, not a farthing was ever sent to me!
so if you like losing your dough....they'll guarantee that...I can easily do the same.
I'll give you my address and please send it to me!
posted
Thanks stacks, Sarah! Now i hope this whole thing can be put to rest and we can get on with the real stuff, there(s plenty of work to be done without having to spend all this time and energy on these con-artists
Nelly
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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All I said was this didn't work for me and that I really wanted to believe it would work. I said that I was glad that others did have improvement.
I don't know how many people are in the office, but I have called the office and asked to speak to Celeste when the phone was answered by someone named Celeste and the voice was different from the person with whom I usually spoke. She told me and quote, " It must have been one of the other Celestes." There were others in the office not named Celeste and I apologize if I didn't make that clear.
Yes, it did make me skeptical that there were several Celestes. I did not see improvement. If others have, then wonderful. As I said in my previous post, you can get a free CD and info packet from them and make up your mind yourself. I was just giving my experience.
My biggest concern now is that they if they aren't on the up and up, how secure is the very presonal information I put on my paperwork I sent before I started my first session?
Posts: 237 | From WV | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I like, Scott, will keep reporting on my experiences with IRT. As I said earlier I tried it last year and felt it did not work for me. However, when the owner offered it to me for free this year I thought I would give it another try and try it for a longer period of time.
If you don't want to try IRT, fine. All I ask is that you not put it down or be rude to the folks who have posted that it helped them.
It may not work for me, but since antibiotice only made me lose 30 pounds that I couldn't afford to lose and messed up my gut as well as gave me systemic yeast, I have turned to alternatives.
I honestly don't see very many people on this site who are cured or in remission from antibiotics that I know of (other than Lymetoo), but of course, I may be wrong about that as I don't know everyone and those who have been cured may have moved on.
I just wish everyone on this site would get well and I pray that every day. Peace. Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10180 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
It's because there is so much controversy, that there is not enough money, for research and
development, concerning these diseases that make it necessary,for even good llmd's, to have a
shotgun or dart board approach at finding a cure, or at least getting these diseases under control.
There have been court cases concerning this disease. However, our adversaries, know full well, how dibilitating this disease makes the plaintiffs, as well as how hard it is, due to inefficient, inaccurate testing and lack of research, to make a substantial case against them.
I would even wager, that these aforementioned reasons, are exactly what these IDSA and company people count most heavily on, to prove their cases.
They count on our own diseases keeping us just sick and apathetic enough that we have no fight in us for very long.
They count on the sick being out of work and thus out of money. Which we all know, makes the courts in this country go round.
It's most akin to the Dark Ages when the Church and Aristocracy made sure they kept the poor
humble masses uneducated. So they, the supposed elite, could keep these poor huddled ignorant masses under control.
They on the other hand have more money than they would ever need to keep any litigation in courtrooms for years on end which would suit there purposes just fine.
These cases would do nothing to further what is truly needed. More money poured into TBD's for education,
research and development of tests,protocols,cures or at least worldwide recognition of a worldwide epidemic,
being kept a secret by the powerful rich in this world.
God help the elite(IDSA and CDC etc.,) if the surfs(the sick and underinsured and under represented), ever got educated!
I'm a relative success story. Believe me. Yet I'm far from cured.
At least I've come about as far as I can honestly and legally.
FXD
Post Script for Dcharb, I was in on the phone conferences...this year as a matter of fact...still received NO MONEY!
I'm not debunking this con because it did'nt work for me.... I'm calling it what it is....so innocent sick people won't be taken in because they are desperate to get well again.
HEY how the hell did hell and damn squeeze thru the automatic censure???
Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Frakktured, if you actually lost money on this when you were promised a refund if it didn't work, then no wonder you call it a SCAM!! Gee, it really helps to have the WHOLE story......
Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it's a scam. It has helped too many others to be a fruitless endeavor.
Just curious.....
How did you approach them about getting your money back and what was their response?
Did you go beyond the 3 sessions?
I assume that their 'guarantee" was posted on their website when you started the sessions?
If they breached their own agreement, then at least report them to Consumer Affairs if you can't get relief from the company!
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cobweb
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posted
I think any treatment for Lyme Disease is a crapshoot.
Fortunately I feel like I'm winning the game right now with IV Rocephin.
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map1131
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hardynaka,lymebytes, and hiker53, to name a few, it is so great to see other lyme sufferers realize.....I'm in charge here (your health) and no doctor with a certificate knows how to cure me with abx. Therefore I'm in charge of my own health and I will do whatever I need to do to get my good health and life back.
I love what hiker53 wrote about the great Dr B's words on negative vs. positive patients. Seems like Dr B has met some Nelly's?
I don't have any experience with lymefree and my first instinct was scam but.....5 yrs ago I SOB many post by skyking about rife for days, weeks and then finally one day I sat crying on lymenet about this horrible illness and where did I need to turn, because abx after 3+ yrs wasn't getting it. Thank God, I was willing to look outside the box that day.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6495 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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oxygenbabe
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I googled Dr. Milne Ogley. Interesting guy with a very checkered past who now works in Mexico and major sports figures go down to get his treatment which is simply prolotherapy, using a fairly strong solution. Prolotherapy is widely known and a doctor I see uses it on sports injuries. There are weak and strong solutions but they stimulate healing of joints and tendons.
Meanwhile what can ANYone say about lyme it is a total mystery why some take 2 weeks of antibiotics and go on with their life, and others are sick for years or indefinitely why some herx and others don't why some get better slowly but surely and others spend years on antibiotics and don't why someone on here, says his wife was herxing and making no progress on orals so her doc put her on 50 mg of IV rocephin (compared to 1000 mg the usual dose) and she is improving. I can't even FIGURE OUT the biology of improving on 50 mg or 1/20th the normal dose if we know that someone else like sarah took full dose for 9 months.
I can't figure it out myself even when I put my thinking cap on and ponder all the variables I simply can't. I guess it's a matter of multiple bugs, multiple strains, varied genetics and as yet some unknown. Such as the microfilarial worms or a modified polio virus or SOMETHING nobody knows yet that is synergistic with the other bugs and makes a much worse case of lyme OR something very specific in certain genetics that reacts very badly to lyme or one of the other bugs.
I'm willing to try stuff that doesn't harm. I did do one treatment that harmed 4 days of salt/c and I think THOSE people are psychopaths who should be prosecuted. Lots of people around the country had adverse effects. If the worst that happens is you don't get better & there's a money back guarantee, its relatively harmless either way. But if some people ARE getting better why is that. Whatever power they're harnessing if even their own brains that's interesting. People say John of God is a scam (Joao de Deus) but some people had miraculous recoveries. As Mehmet Oz said if they tapped into their own healing powers through faith we need to know that.
I have no answers.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Jellybelly
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Sometimes people forget how powerful the POWER OF SUGGESTION is. Then when you add in that GOD is suggesting this, the suggestion goes off the charts.
Scott mentioned people experiencing a herx. There are people who will experience a herx off off a sugar pill. There are people who claim a cure from a healing minister in a church too.
For the moment they make actually believe they are cured, but in reality it is merely the mind wanting so much to be well and willing the body to feel well. Almost always symptoms eventually return and people are as sick as they ever were. That is a fact.
Sure every once in a blue moom someone actually might really seem to get well, but people that is NOT THE NORM. There is nothing in God's word that indicates he is involved in curing people like this "today".
I absolutely believe that faith in God is critical and I do lean on him to help me cope with my health and not give up despite it. But when I read about hearing a sequence of #s and imagining rubbing myself on the back 7 times, well.....it gave me my first chuckle of the morning.
Then I felt kind of disheartened that people continue to use something like this on people who have such a strong faith in God and are sick that they will try just about anything, that just about anyone claiming to come in God's name would suggest in order to get well. They are even willing to PAY for it.
Yes, Jesus did heal people, but if you remember he did it for FREE!!! Anyone who charges for a service that would have been given for FREE from God is kind of disgusting.God gives freely, he doesn't need the money nor should anyone who comes in God's name.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Shouldn't we feel collectively ashamed that this "topic" (if this is indeed a topic) has got over 85 posts when the post about Dr Jemsek is barely being discussed?
Nelly (in France)
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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oxygenbabe
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Okay I know this will be controversial but: What does it mean when a 41 year old woman dies while under aggressive abx treatment and another has repeated catheter infections after 17 months of IV treatment? Isn't that something that should be looked into? There is a happy medium and the LLMD's that are careful such as Dr. L in NY and Dr. H etc, I've never heard of this happening under their care. I send people to either of them IF THEY WANT abx. Frankly I don't like some of the more aggressive "LLMD's" and think they do harm some folks. I'm not sure that much abx is good for anybody and certainly some people will get much sicker on it.
So what is wrong with discussing a money-back-guaranteed treatment that might be hocum pocum but isn't harming anyone?
I don't personally want to discuss abx treatments even what some consider "low dose" is too high dose for me. I'm glad Nellie's better (I assume she is?) but I don't want to know from Adam about what she took because I will *never* take even 1/10th of what she took. And it isn't because I wasn't horribly sick. I got a hyperbaric chamber instead and do IV glutathione and IVIG etc. Meanwhile I am *very* interested in what Selma did becuase it worked for her and I think I could tolerate some herbs. And i might as well listen to a CD and some codes it couldn't hurt and as I found from my recent experience with homeopathy, the world is stranger than I ever thought.
Why don't we stick to letting others know what helps US and what doesn't help US personally and stop throwing stones at what we perceive to be others' glass houses.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: [QB] I'm glad Nellie's better (I assume she is?) but I don't want to know from Adam about what she took because I will *never* take even 1/10th of what she took.
Nelly's better than she would be had she not taken abx AND various herbals and alternative treatments.
But Nelly has been horribly sick for a VERY long time and she was close to death several times and I won't even bother telling you what she took, not to "be better" but to save her life!!!
And so far she has managed to stay alive, that in itself is quite an achievement, believe me!
Selma, has only been sick for a short time and from what I can tell, and so have you, J, compared to me, you were both bitten in an era when it was KNOWN that tick-bites were dangerous so you were able to act quickly, now, you choose whatever suits you, I am not judging that, but I do strongly object to Selma's sligh remark and yours, about "Nelly being better".
One last thing: Nelly uses every alternative treatment she thinks will be of help, so the dichotomy is not as you make out, btwn herbal treatment (soft, clever, open, sophisticated etc) and abx treatment(harsh, mainstream, toxic unrefined etc), the dichotomy is btwn PATHETIC SCAMS that are attempting to fool sick people and everything else which might work.
I think those scam/con artists are the ones we should be weary of, I know YOU are smart enough to not fall for scams but think of the people who are new to this or too, too sick to even think! They're the people the scam bags are after, not you or me J.
Nelly PS Artemisinin is probably the HARDEST TREATMENT I have taken
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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oxygenbabe
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Nelly, actually getting treatment "early" didn't help me at all because two doctors, my own and an infectious disease "expert" REFUSED to test me for babesia that summer which was surely complicating the case inordinately. I had a feeling I must have babesia, just good instincts I suppose. My own doc refused saying "I'm not going to put you on mepron so why test you for babesia" (his reasoning being I guess that mepron was a tough drug) and the infectious disease expert agreed to and then even worse drew my blood and just re-tested it for lyme which was stupid as I'd had the bullseye, a positive Elisa and a positive western blot. So my early treatment was useless and made me worse (ruined my digestion and made my fungus situation horrible). I was totally horribly ill and I'd probably be dead or close to it if I didn't go alternative. It took about 2 or 3 years to get someone to run an Igenex fish test for me on babesia.
I'm really glad you saved your own life. I understand you're not "well" yet.
But whatever methods *we* use to avoid dying or death, it doesn't mean others can or should use those methods.
We're all individual.
We all have such "selective" perception. I know a hyperbaric chamber facility where the guy who runs it has *never* seen any eye problems with hyperbaric when I know my own and others' eyes have changed with deep dive hyperbaric--permanently.
I know people on abx who have *never* seen anybody get into permanent remission without them...and folks on herbs who are convinced abx never fully gets anybody well etc etc.
It depends on what helped us and failed us. We seem to see the whole world of "lyme" through our own framework which is just too narrow as we are each one person, or even on lists (internet) we attract those of like minds and get mad at or repel those who think differently.
I wish there were more research. I stumbled across some articles I'd printed out on apicoplasts and drugs to target them (specifically malaria but babesia has them too). The research doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. It's an ideal way to target these bugs. I wish there were more Eva Sapi's PhD's who are looking in the tickgut to see what the heck is in there. Etc etc etc etc.
But I really think alternative methods work sometimes. Peter Alex a German homeopath writes of some cases of chronic lyme that indeed he "cured"
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:But whatever methods *we* use to avoid dying or death, it doesn't mean others can or should use those methods.
I don't think this is the point here, I never preach for this or against that as long as there is a chance it might be even semi-kosher, but when the scams are coming thick and fast, like they did on here AND on EL, and I had to deal with their assaults right in my own email box after I had banned them, then YES I strongly object to this crap.
I never objected to anything you chose to try, or anybody else for that matter, and as I keep saying I DO use alternative therapies myself, so it isn't a case of abx vs alternative as long as it's not an insult to my intelligence, and when the pushers don't come on worse than a flock of secondhand car salesmen
Nelly
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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I honestly believe no one is trying to push anyone into using IRT. I certainly am not. I think some people who were helped by IRT got overzeolous with their postings, but their intentions were not bad.
As I said before, I tried it for awhile last year and it didn't seem to help much. I am trying it again now, so I will keep you updated.
Laser therapy has helped me the most, but is the least accessible to me.
Meanwhile, I wish you speedy healing with whatever method you choose (and if something works, please let us know!). Peace. Hiker
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10180 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Truthfinder
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You know, this topic would have come and gone by is itself if not for some who love to stir the pot with inflammatory statements and references to ``faerie dust''. Medicine that you don't understand is still medicine.
And speaking of Dr. J. in NC, who is viewed as a `rebel' or an `outlaw' or a downright `quack' in his own right within many orthodox medical circles.......... perhaps we can take some of his exact words to heart here.......
.....Scientific truth and dogma tend to part ways very quickly. He who holds rigid to a belief and is inflexible will soon be proven wrong .
I have seen the evolution of a medical standard happen countless times over the past 23 years in HIV medicine, so much so that I learned not to hold on to any precept for more than a few months, knowing that it would soon change .....
My life changing experience in HIV/AIDS taught me several lessons, the most important of which was to learn to practice the humility necessary to appreciate what we don't understand about medicine .
...... generational change of the practice and standards in medicine is predictable and sometimes dramatic. And so, in my view, knowing what you don't know, that is ... an appreciation for the search of the profound and undiscovered, is more important than what you may know .....
If we don't know what's wrong with the patient, we tend to blame the patient. Any action which undermines the opportunity of the patient to be heard, to have quality care, and the right to free liberty and choice in their treatment is an objectification of the patient. This is inherently immoral .......
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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oxygenbabe
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Thanks Truthfinder. Very well stated.
Hiker--what kind of laser therapy? Is that the laser therapy Gigi mentioned and that is practiced by Cowden and others? If I've missed posts I'm curious can you let us know what it did for you?
Nelly, I wish you well sorry they invaded your list...probably you can leave it alone on lymenet for now? Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
In Answer to anyone who forgot,
Nal asked "has anyone TRIED this??"
I answered. Therefore, I must have "TRIED" the procedure, she was inquiring about.
For those making the accusation that it "did'nt work for me" and that's why I call it a scam I can only say this.
I tried this awhile back when others here were trying it, or so they said, as an ivestigation of its affectiveness only.
They were supposed to get back to this board but at least one is not here anymore and the others have posted on this thread in favor of this procedure.
I felt I could give an honest and intelligent assesment of their procedure. Con or not.
I have done just that. It's a con.
I did this for the sake of those who are new here and are really sick and are searching for answers to their befuddled minds and sick bodies.
I did it because there was a time when I was a whole lot sicker than I am now. Thanks to Dr B and ILADS and Fallon, I'm much better.
I was so sick then that I believed a psychic faith healer in the vein of EDGAR CAYCE could indeed help me.
At least she said she could and she was a practicing registered nurse at the same time.
I lost about 200 dollars.
When I got some of my mind back as a result of IV antibiotics and orals over a couple of years.
I realized how desperate I had become and wished this never, to happen to anyone else, as sick as this disease can make us. Like I was then.
I decided I would try my best to give nothing but my best, personally experienced, advice, to those who honestly need just that.
NOT SCAMS or CONS or SNAKE OILS.
And I would'nt comment on anything I did'nt try first.
Some of the people who have posted in favor of the claims this website makes, have asked me questions, too knowledgefull of this scam.
Knowledge they would only have gained, by being, in fact, part and parcel to this scam.
To those people I say, you should be ashamed of yourselves. But then again, your interests are'nt the same as mine, now are they?
Don't answer...its a rhetorical question....(one that requires no answer).
Now there's one guy in particular that uses the same font as a guy by the name of JRWAGNER,
who was supposedly going to get back to this board with his assessment of some other "potion" of something like, nanosilver, if memory serves.
I have'nt seen him back with his assessment! However he'll probably show up soon. But that's a different scam.
Perhaps perpetrated by the same con artists at the same post office address.
But it does'nt belong here. This threads question was asked long ago and answered long ago.
charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
Actually JR did show back up and comment on his free nanosilver trial...
------------------------------------------------------ JRWagner Frequent Contributor Member # 3229
posted December 26, 2006 11:12 AM Hello everyone!
Tony and others...if you remember correctly, I posted info on the website that would chart Nutrasilver users progress. www.morgellons.com
My own observations are that 10 days of NutraSilver did nothing...but as Tracy said, 10 days of anything is not enough. Russell did offer me a very good deal on more bottles just to see if a longer course with higher dosage would work, but money is funny right now so I declined.
Hell, the damn ABX are not working either...I am also taking Mepron (was positive for Babesia IgG in the past) and the expense of the stuff is crazy...especially since I do not feel better after three months (also using Biaxin).
The overwhelming fatique at all hours of the day is what really gets to me...and the numbness and tingling in my hands...weakness in my shoulders, etc. Pehaps it IS now autoimmune...who knows?
Peace, Love and Wellness, JRW Posts: 1125 | From: Ny, Ny | Registered: Oct 2002 | IP: Logged ------------------------------------------------------
I corresponded with him a bit after that trying to think of anything I tried that he might find useful...but he'd exhausted everything I knew of by then.
I have no idea what happened to him since.
Charlie
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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Truthfinder
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posted
Gee, Cave, thanks for editing your previous post to eliminate the reference to this treatment as so much ``faerie dust''.
To clarify - Note web definitions of ``scam'': A ploy by a shyster to raise money; a fraudulent business scheme; a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
Nelly and others, stating that this treatment is a scam - as though it were a proven fact - is the equivalent of presenting ``knowingly false'' information, which is another violation of the forum rules. It is your OPINION that this is a scam - nothing more. Please state it as such since it is not a fact.
Although many on this board believe that long-term antibiotics are actually suppressive and harmful to the body, they do not go around this board chasing after all the abx threads yelling ``SNAKE OIL! SHYSTERS! I TRIED IT - IT DOESN'T WORK!! I TRASHED MY LIVER THANKS TO ABX AND SO WILL YOU!'' Of course not!! Most are smart enough and thoughtful enough to realize that they can't attribute their personal experience to everyone else.
So far, we haven't heard from enough people who have tried the IRT treatment to know very much about how well it works or how often it works for people. And we won't know that until more people try it - financially risk free!!
And what I keep wondering....... if there were any real, hard evidence that this was a scam, wouldn't all of you be contacting the BBB or Consumer Affairs or SOMETHING to protect the less-perceptive victims out there? Why aren't you doing that?
Frakktured, you didn't join this board until last month, and yet you say you have been here for a long time...... I hope you are not the reincarnation of Tony Z because we all know that Tony 1) didn't pay a dime for his `trial' of IRT, and 2) that Tony was not open-minded enough to give IRT a fair shot.
And may I remind you that JRWAGNER wasn't scammed either - he got all of his product for free. It didn't work in 10 days - he lost nothing. No scam. It simply proved that it didn't help him within 10 days. Period.
That aside, perhaps you could answer my questions posed on Page #2 here?
If you were relieved of your money in violation of this website's guarantee, I will be more than happy to contact the website on your behalf and ask WHY you never received the promised refund when it didn't work for you. I don't want to see anybody `scammed', and that seems to be your premise here, right? (Note web definitions of ``scam'': A ploy by a shyster to raise money; a fraudulent business scheme; a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.)
I am willing to help do what I can to make sure you are `made whole'. Let's keep these people out there honest..... after all, you are being honest, right? If so, then let's get your money back!!!
Thanks, Charlie, for bringing up that thread of JRW's - I could not remember what he has said about it.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
THis was posted today on our local SCLyme yahoo group- the whole article is on LymeBlog and is worth reading- *****************************************
Gary Blier of Allergy Associates under investigation
LymeBlog News Lexington, KY USA Editorial By Mac McDonald, Editor, LymeBlog News September 17, 2007 6:35 PM EST
Gary Blier, proponent of Immune Response Training (IRT), under investigation by Rhode Island Department of Health for practicing medicine without a license.
The day the medicine show came to town
Medicine shows
Patent medicines and medicine shows were popular from the 1870s to the 1930s.
Patent medicine makers used: 1. first-hand testimonials 2. scientific breakthroughs 3. consumer's fears of (established) medicine to help sell their products.
The pitch doctor or medicine man, typically a middle-aged man with a self-conferred degree, came to town with his traveling medicine show.
As a part of the pitch, the medicine man provided "proof" that the product worked with the aid of a shill (a decoy) or two in the crowd. The shills tried the medicine and bought the first bottles.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
I've been staying out of this discussion, but must say. When a 41 year old patient dies of a morphine overdose, it is not due to the abx.
I don't think this was ever meant to be a conversation of abx vs. alternative treatment. People became concerned when first time posters started showing up to write testimonials.
I believe the readers of this forum have the right to have that fact pointed out to them. It is then up to them to weed through everything, read the testimonials and advice of everybody who posted, and make their own decision.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Yup, Aniek, I agree-
notice that the poster on LymeBlog who is posting everywhere- is doing exactly what Gary Vlier did 10 years ago with Doc Ongley- just an enthusiastic patient saying what helped him! But Gary Blier ended up making lots of money off of it! IF one were cynical one might suspect this new poster of following in Bliers footsteps in anticipation of the same reward!!!
time will tell.
Oxygen, I am not in the least against Y O U trying it- you have been aorund the block!!!
BUT there are very sick very brain-fogged newbies around who can get sidetracked from what is their best chance into this-
I don't believe in threads being pulled personally- I think it is great to see this- to see the process involved-
and long live Dr. J of NC, bless him!!!! BLESS HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and bless the MD who gave me longterm IV who saved my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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The laser therapy I have done is similar to what Gigi talked about with Dr. Co in NM. However, I use the man who pioneered it with Cyril Smith in England. This doc is PhD in Texas and is much cheaper than the doctor Gigi mentioned.
PM me if you want more info. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10180 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Is there a dead horse around here somewhere?????
===============
I can vouch for the doc in TX!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Okay we've about exhausted this topic I hope . Until we have better answers as to what bugs are in the ticks and how to treat them, we will all be trying many different things. How is it I wonder that the news is that Tuberculosis can now be treated with 3 drugs and cured in a few months but lyme in some cases requires these longterm oral and IV regimens that are so draconian?
Something is not right. They should be researching this as much as they do tuberculosis.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Sarah, I did read the entire article at LymeBlog. I had to, because what you posted didn't make sense. Did anyone happen to notice that `practicing medicine without a license' has nothing to do with `shill' games?
I note that Gary Blier is not being investigated for fraud, which makes the whole, unsubstantiated business about decoys and shills just a lot of speculation, precisely what we have seen on this thread. The state of RI would certainly jump on an obvious attempt to illegally relieve people of their money. But they can't. And especially when LymeFree offers a refund if you don't get results in the first 3 or 4 sessions.
There are two simple ways to get investigated for practicing medicine without a license:
1. diagnosing disease (reserved only for docs and certain licensed professionals); 2. promising to cure a disease (again, reserved only for docs, etc.).
Every time your local health food store guy recommends a product to a customer for a certain ailment, he must be careful how he words his `suggestion' because he too is at risk for stepping over that fine line of telling someone about a product that will fix their problem.
Apparently the RI investigator on this case said that since Blier is not licensed, he ``does tread the fine line of not saying he can cure things''. So, what appears to have gotten Gary in a bit of hot water is that he has stated that IRT ``enables the human immune system to kill pathogens on its own''. Perhaps that somehow `implies' a cure, although I don't read it that way. Garlic kills pathogens, too, but that certainly doesn't mean that garlic `cures' anything.
Gary Blier may, indeed, be a strange duck. I can't speak to that. If he is doing things that are suspicious and unethical, he is only hurting himself and his company.
Time will tell how this all shakes out; I shall remain neutral on the subject as I have been from the beginning. There's not sufficient, substantiated evidence yet of any medical or legal wrongdoing here. And until there is, we can all watch for future developments.
Once again this brings to mind Dr. J. of NC. Here is a good and decent physician, doing his best to help those with chronic Lyme Disease, but he is put out of business based on what most of us would consider weak, flimsy, or non-existent evidence. Personally, I don't want to perpetuate the kind of thinking that `convicted' Dr. J.
This also reminds me of typical suppression techniques in this country to nip any effective alternative treatments in the bud. Sadly, this now extends to orthodox medical treatments.
Do you all remember the story of Iowa Congressman Berkley Bedell who got complete remission from Lyme Disease by using a unique alternative method? Of course, Bedell's `practitioner' was mercilessly persecuted and prosecuted, bankrupted, and run out of business; this method of treatment is, of course, illegal. (Although a group of women with MS are using a nearly-identical method to treat their MS, and they will NOT reveal their identities or location for fear of prosecution.) http://www.nfam.org/berkley.html
At some point, sanity must prevail here at LymeNet.
If you have an opinion about something, state it as such and give reasons why. If you have evidence to support your point of view, by all means, present it! If your evidence isn't easily verified on the Internet, provide a link to the information if possible. Do your best to keep opinions and facts separate so there is no confusion. Disparaging remarks and barbed comments serve no purpose here. These fundamental guidelines are our best tools to help newcomers and Old Timers alike at LymeNet.
Tracy
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
Ho Hum,
I really was not going to come back to this thread. Mainly because I answered Nal's question early on and it HAS since been varified over and over again.
At least for some people.
And where did Nal go after posing this inquery? So Nal if you don't believe me click on what Californialyme brought up.
Very good stuff there Californialyme...I really enjoyed reading all bout that person Gary Blier.
Well this IS the last time I will post here for the aforementioned reasons.
Thanks Charlie, I must have missed that day of postings. I never spent a lot of time here before I registered. So that would have been easy to miss.
Truthfinder I enjoyed reading posts by Tony Z from time to time. I really think his heart was in the right place.
Unfortunately it seemed sometimes, he would get all caught up in peoples problems, letting them get under his skin I think, and sometimes get rather gruff.
Sometimes I thought he was right in doing so, but I also think, he is still fighting off some neurolyme rage issues.
Interesting reading none the less.
Too bad he was banned. Ya know, just like GIGI I was reading a thread the other day about her getting the ax also.
Did she REALLY say those things? I missed that too I guess.
I, on the other hand, am quite happy these days as you may note on another thread I posted the other day.
Since we're playing "What's my Line" here.
If you Truth are so dang sure you can get money out of that scam. Just WHO ARE YOU?
Gary Blier himself?
I mean Really. Or just one of the "shills" employed by him? Like it says in what Californialyme brought up.
Don't worry about it Truth, I would'nt want to put you out. Besides, Rhode Island is taking care of things nicely.
Don't you think?
OK that's it I"m not comming back, even to read this thread!
posted
I know this is an older post but I have been doing IRT for a little while now. I did so at the convincing of a friend that was very sick. She has had total success. I have not posted in awhile, have been off abx for over 4 months and feel better doing IRT than abx. If you remember me at all, I too have been on multiple abx and the cowden protocol. They do not claim it will work for all lyme patients. This like any other treatment, may work for one, but not another. I am not suggesting this to anyone. I just lost my llmd, he is not continuing to treat lyme. I spent a fortune on him since he did not take insurance. I am currently looking for a new llmd to be monitored. My point is: If you think it's a scam, don't try it. I personally have listened to many people get better and it is amazing. I am not throwing in the towel yet.
Thanks for your time,
Karen B
Posts: 151 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Nov 2006
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Thanks Karen for posting your personal progress.
I think this is the kind of input Nal was looking for. Honest assessments, pro and con, from other lymenetters who have actually used it.
I know I want to hear it.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Oh sorry Mini, Did I step on your tails, er toes?
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Truthfinder
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8512
posted
Good for you, Karen! Thanks very much for your post. Hopefully, you will have a success story.
And ditto to what Luvs said.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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