SForsgren
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posted
I never fully understand how the money argument is a valid one. Does Buhner get paid for book sales? Do drug companies get paid for antibiotic sales? Nothing is free. It all costs money.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Minou, thanks for your (as always) intelligent and considered response. Goofy, please don't be so defensive. I'm not trying to "convince you" anyway. I'm raising legit questions. The name changing DOES seem like a pure marketing gimmick. There is no research on how the herbs interact and what pathways they use. Some of the herbs are used in the amazon so if you do your research at raintree etc, you can find out about their history and use.
Each to his own. I would try Buhner before Cowden and have artemisia annua here to start with as a tea but haven't used it yet, then I'd probably try andrographis although it is a strong herb. It has a long history. I prefer to source an herb myself and know what I'm getting and if it is organically grown, than to trust a third party. I also prefer to try one thing in a low dose, see how I do, see if I can increase the dose, and slowly perhaps add in another.
For instance I chew (don't swallow) Eclectic Institute cranberry capsules. I'm sure I could get cranberry elsewhere but I know and trust Eclectic and have spoken to their owners/herbalists personally. I have thought for a while now cranberry would help with everything from cavities to gut bacteria such as ecoli and maybe h pylori. A new study out today shows just that.
I like to do my own research and proceed with caution esp. after I was an idiot with salt/c I will now ALWAYS err on conservative side for trying protocols that have no research behind them.
That is just me. I raised these questions to see if anybody had good information and I appreciate minou's information as I did not know he renamed chamomile and valerian.
Edit: Scott just saw your post. The money argument is very valid because when money is involved one can find one's bias shifting quite a bit in favor of whatever will make one money. This can be conscious or subconscious. That's why scientists have to declare "conflict of interest" and who funded their studies and try to conduct double blind studies. For goodness sake I thought that was quite obvious. Money does corrupt ethics, science, and ethical reporting of data.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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minoucat
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posted
Just as a point of reference, Rain-tree herbs does a lovely job of providing references for the herbs it sells.
They want you to buy the extensive technical reports they compile -- fair enough -- but they do at least cite the primary research sources on the herbs on their website. You can see examples by clicking on the herbs listed at http://rain-tree.com/rtmprod.htm
Rain-tree has also published a book on rainforest herbs that looks excellent - The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs By Leslie Taylor, ND
I was tickled by the advertising tag (the exclamation point is theirs): "New Book with 535 pages!"
Reminds me, I don't exactly know why, of the tag on a bestseller at the checkout counter: "A blockbuster of a book, full of sex and easy to read!"
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
quote:Originally posted by oxygenbabe: Goofy, please don't be so defensive. I'm not trying to "convince you" anyway. I'm raising legit questions.
I've simply answered the questions you have raised. I disagree with you so I come across as defensive. I also tried to "answer" your question about my LLMD's integrity, which you questioned.
I don't think money is an issue, especially since my LLMD is not making money off the herbs .... like Scott said, he's probably not even covering the cost of handling them.
We just plain don't have a bunch of double blind independent studies on any of this stuff. If you choose to go out and find various sources for herbs, great ... I have six kids and don't have the time for that.
BTW, I took artemisia for a year. It's a great herb and was recommended by my LLMD.
At this point, this argument is a dead horse ... I'll keep you posted on how I do with this protocol.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
At this point I think we all need to find a LLMD we personally feel comfortable with and trust them and their experience.
My LLMD putting me on the full Cowden isn't backed by double blind research but neither is the 22 months of various abx and abx and Mepron combos I have been on with him.
My LLMD doesn't sell me the herbs and doesn't make a penny from having me do the Protocol.
We should all research and read what we can but none of what is out there for us to read can take the place of working with a LLMD who has helped people get better.
I've been doing well with this protocol along with Zhangs Art.
I hope you tolerate it well!
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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sparkle7
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posted
I just started the limited Cowden protocol 3 days ago. I'm actually just taking the Cumanda & the Burbur & Parsley detox. My doctor suggested some other supplements that I'm taking, as well.
Cumanda is kicking my a$$. I only took 6 drops over a 2 day period & started herxing - but in a good way. I stopped for 1 day and rested. I'm also taking Nanotek Chitosan late at night to avoid any interactions. I'm going on this trip nice & slow. I'm making sure to "mop up" the toxins so they don't get reabsorbed.
I have a very good feeling about this. I'm so glad I quit the abx! No offense to anyone but they just weren't for me. Cumanda seems much more thorough in seeking out & destroying the bugs (just based on what I'm feeling going on in my body). It also has many other properties.
The Peruvians have been studying herbs for, probably, hundreds or even thousands of years. I don't think you will get much hard data & statistics from medicine men/women & their ancestors who have been working with these herbs for hundreds of years. Yet, I trust that they probably know more about herbal remedies than any other group on the planet.
There have been some studies about the herbs from Nutrimedix at Ecuadorian hospitals. They may rename the herbs because Nutrimedix is located in Peru & Ecuador. The herbs may be know by those names in that region. Or, maybe they are using a specific variety of a plant from a particular region? They also use a proprietary method of extraction. As far as I could tell, all their products seem to be very high quality.
Why does medicine refer to many things by it's Latin name or why do the drug companies rename drugs & sell them at different prices? Why is Tylenol the name people use for acetaminophen or paracetamol (outside of the US)? How many people object to that? It's kind of knit-picky to have an objection to that. Many herbs are known by several names. It doesn't mean the company is "out to get us".
COMPANY INFORMATION The Nutramedix vision is to provide the finest quality natural products and to devote a substantial portion of its earnings to improve the quality of life for disadvantaged people around the world. With facilities in Jupiter, Florida, USA and in Shannon, Ireland, the company has specialized in supplying Peruvian botanicals to manufacturers, distributors and consumers since 1993.
The beginnings of the company extend deep into the jungles of Peru. The founder of Nutramedix, while working as a missionary pilot in the Peruvian rainforest during the 1980�s, first learned about the herb Cat�s Claw from the Ashaninka Indians. Since that time, Nutramedix has maintained very strong relationships with the Peruvians who harvest our materials, and each year our researchers conduct an expedition into the jungle with them to investigate new medicinal plants for development.
Nutramedix has made a significant investment to develop a novel, proprietary extraction and enhancement process used to manufacture its liquid extracts. The result is a highly bio-available whole herb, broad-spectrum extract that enhances the action of the herbal ingredient. The first liquid extract product we introduced in 2003 has also become our signature product, Samento, a rare chemo-type of Cat�s Claw. This new version has been exceptionally well received by both consumers and health care professionals alike. In fact, Samento has been approved as a medicine in Ecuador with three associated medical claims.
Next, we released a liquid extract version of Noni, the very popular fruit from Polynesia. The extract version requires much lower dosage recommendations than the standard juice format, and has a far more pleasant flavor.
We have since developed a full line of over 20 products utilizing the very same proprietary extraction and enhancement process, allowing us to produce high quality herbal products in a low cost-per-dose format. This new line of products has become a unique and powerful arsenal designed to meet a broad range of today's health challenges.
Cumanda is an herbal extract made from the bark of the Campsiandra angustifoliatree, found in the Amazon basin. It has been used by indigenous groups in that region for hundreds of years.
Known medicinal properties include: Cumanda is very effective in treating the Borrelia burgdorferi bacteria and practitioners are now using it in conjunction with Samento to treat Lyme Borrelisosis. Lyme Borreliosis has been linked to hundreds of medical conditions. Many researchers and physicians believe that Lyme Borreliosis may be a factor in most chronic conditions.
One of the most impressive benefits of Cumanda is its antifungal action. Physicians report that it is effective in treating many difficult to treat fungi including Mycosis fungoides, Candida krusei, Candida albicans and Aspergillus niger, to name a few.
In May 2005, pharmacological studies were conducted in laboratory rodents at the University of Guayaquil in Ecuador. In an Anti-inflammatory Effect Study the Nutramedix Cumanda inhibited inflammation by 97%. It was compared with Pfizer's best selling and very toxic anti-inflammatory drug, Feldene (Piroxicam), which inhibited inflammation by 98%.
In another pharmacological study conducted in laboratory rodents at the University of Guayaquil in Ecuador, Nutramedix Cumanda was determined to be 86% as effective as aspirin as an analgesic.
There are no known contraindications, no known side effects and no known interactions with other drugs when using Campsiandra angustifoliaproducts like Cumanda. In May 2005, toxicology studies were conducted on Nutramedix Cumanda at the University of Guayaquil in Ecuador. No toxic effects were reported even when laboratory rodents received 240,000 times the equivalent human dose.
*ANTIBACTERIAL *ANTIFUNGAL *ANTIVIRAL *ANTIPARASITIC *ANTI-INFLAMMATORY *ANALGESIC *IMMUNE SYSTEM MODULATOR
----
OK?
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
here's more -
What is BURBUR?
Burbur is an extract produced from the leaves of Desmodium molliculum, a perennial plant that is harvested between 1,000 meters to 3,500 meters above sea level in Peru. Nutramedix, U.S. producer of Burbur, utilizes a proprietary extraction and enhancement process that makes this product far more effective than any other Desmodium molliculum product available.
The herb in Burbur has been traditionally used for its body cleansing properties. It is very effective in aiding detoxification of the liver, kidneys, lymphatics and the ground matrix. Burbur is commonly used in conjunction with powerful antimicrobials produced by Nutramedix, Samento and Cumanda. Many health care professionals have reported that Burbur can be used in place of 6 detox remedies. In many cases a significant healing crisis (Herxheimer's reaction) can be dramatically reduced or eliminated with the use of Burbur.
There are no known contraindications, no known side effects and no known interactions with other drugs when using Desmodium molliculum products like Burbur. In May 2005, toxicology studies were conducted on Nutramedix Burbur at the University of Guayaquil, Ecuador. No toxic effects were reported even when laboratory rodents received 120,000 times the equivalent human dose.
Some of the reported properties of the herb found in Burbur are:
quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: Maybe just maybe he put 400 people on it because it worked. I find Dr. H to be very upstanding and I actually don't think that he does make any singificant money. I know he sells the herbs to his own patients at a cost low enough that it probably doesn't pay for the staff time to deal with it.
I agree. I have been a long time patient of Dr. H and he took my health insurance as long as he could. I don't believe Dr. H makes any profit from the herbs.
As far as Cowden herbs are concerned they are from the Amazon basin. They have been used a long time by the indigenous people there the same as Chinese herbals.
The pharmaceutical companies have been scouring these rain forests for years looking for extracts to replicate for drug manufacturing.
I will make a statment though that I have read Buhners protocol and have not tried it.
My lyme head had a hard time figuring out where to get what. I know he details it, but then I came on here and was even more confused where people were buying each herb.
The Cowden is simpler in that respect.
I do understand though the issue one may have with a company like Nutramedix selling the protocol as Cowden though.
I like the Cowden in the respect that I can lower or increase my dosage with just drops as opposed to the capsule form of other herbs.
While on the subject, Cowden, especially the full protocol could be a minor nusiance with traveling.
here's some tips: 1) Show the security peeps your package of herbs. They do consider herbs to be medicine.
In airports like Pensacola with military installations, I was once stopped and held up because the herbs were in my suitcase. They tested them with some machine to see if they had a caustic substance.
Otherwise I have had no problems with air travel.
2) I purchased a small tote for them, filled it with some bubble wrap to protect them and wrapped some of the herbs with bubble wrap too.
3) If you are going out, and are on limited protocol, you could pre-mix your herbs and put in one clean glass bottle. I used the large trace minerals bottle from the full protocol.
4) if traveling to a warm or cold climate, I have for a warm climate used a very small thermal bag (the kind you put sodas in) to house my herbs while I go about my business. This is to keep it out of the sun. I have used the thermal cooling inserts to keep them from getting too hot, but not directly on the herb, the coolant was in side pocket.
I also bring a small bottle of water and keep a small glass with me. If it's terribly hot in the car, I put the water in the cooler and it stays room temp.
Nutramedix says that as long as the herb doesn't boil or freeze, potency stays in tact.
I tend to err on the side of caution.
Posts: 85 | From here | Registered: Jul 2007
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sixgoofykids
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posted
I did not have the same experience traveling. You cannot carry the herbs on the airplane, they are considered supplements. They have to be in your suitcase. I told the lady they were medicinal herbs from my doctor, and she said, "No, they are supplements." Ugh.
I had to find a box and package my bottles because my luggage was already checked.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
are any of you taking the enov extract for emotional issues? did it help? can you take it without taking the rest of the herbs in the protocol? i want something to deal with the emotional issues if there are any and this looked interesting, but its expensive! thanks for any info radha
Posts: 392 | From New York | Registered: Dec 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
For the record, the name of that homeopathy Yahoo Group is ``minutus''. I think Oxy accidentally spelled it `minitus'. It does appear to be a good site - thanks, Oxy.
Great discussion, by the way. There is great input from both sides of the isle on this one.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Aniek
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quote:Originally posted by sixgoofykids: I did not have the same experience traveling. You cannot carry the herbs on the airplane, they are considered supplements. They have to be in your suitcase. I told the lady they were medicinal herbs from my doctor, and she said, "No, they are supplements." Ugh.
I had to find a box and package my bottles because my luggage was already checked.
When I travelled with liquid supplements during the complete ban on carry on liquids, I had a doctors note and never had a problem. I told security before going through about it. I did this with glutathione and a liquid folic acid.
You are allowed to bring liquids on in under 3 oz containers if they can fit in a 1 quart bag. If the entire protocol doesn't fit, you could always premix what you need for the flight and then check the rest.
Just make sure that what you premix is in a labeled bottle under 3 oz. You are not allowed to carry liquids on in unmarked bottles. But they never open the bottle to make sure what is in it matches the label (how will they know?). So you can get a small carry on mouthwash bottle or something.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Aniek, good advice. My problem was we had already checked out of the hotel before the doctor's appt, so were trying to go through with the whole month's supply ... dumb idea.
I've been on it three days now ... so far, so good! I even beat hubby at racquetball yesterday!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Radha - Ezov is an extract of Hyssop flowers.
I don't see any reason why you can't take it alone without doing the Cowden protocol.
The herbs are for many ailments other than Lyme.
The Cowden protocol is just a part of their inventory.
---
Jeez... I don't know how you guys have the energy to travel & do stuff with Lyme. I've been really debilitated for at least 7 years. I hope I'll get to the point where I'll be worrying how to travel with the herbs. It's been so disappointing giving up so many things that I used to love to do when I was well.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
When I flew I put the bottles back in the little box with the dividers that it was sent to me in, then put that in an insulated lunch box type thing and put it in my suitcase with my pillows.
It is easier to do at home than when you travel.
I think those are the best prices. When I called they helped me figure out what I needed (I cut out the lunch dose) and still had extra of some. They also gave me an extra $20 off. Who knows why. And free shipping, which to Hawaii is amazing.
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Sparkle, I have to fly to see my LLMD.
I have gotten pretty much back to normal though, so hopefully some fun travel will be in my future, but so far, it's just been to NY.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Oh... I've flown to a neighbor island for fun and to CA for fun and to see my LLMD. I am pretty much better so traveling is fine now.
In April I will be flying to Boston for work- that will be a TRIP. CA is a 5 hr flight but Boston will be a LONG day.
You'll get there!
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks guys!
The http://www.myherbs.net seems like a good site. I remember looking at it since she has a few herbal protocols going for Lyme. Someone gave me the info awhile back.
Sometimes Nutramedix gives discounts for doctors who try it for the first time. I asked my doctor to find out about it but he forgot. He's a good guy but kind of an absent minded professor type. I'll check into re-orders from myherbs.net...
The Burbur & Parsley really help with the herxing! I don't know why people don't use them with the abx? I'm not sure you can do it but if I were doing the abx now - I'd give it a try. I guess one could call the company to find out if that's OK.
One day at a time...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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minoucat
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posted
Nutramedix give a major discount to any licensed medical professional (nurses, LMPs, PTs, etc.) who buy at least 12 bottles (can be assorted) of their product, and reduced/free shipping for larger orders.
Proof of licensing is required. Their site gives the terms.
So if you have a medical professional in your family or among your friends, find out if they will buy your stuff for you.
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks Minoucat!
I knew I saw that somewhere. I'm going to have to bug my doctor about it. The herbs aren't exactly cheap...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
there are many cheaper brands of hyssop extract which is what the enzov extract is i guess and i see that hyssop is used for alot of respiratory issues so i wonder if it another brand would still do the same thing regarding the emotional issues? thanks sparkle 7 for replying, Radha
Posts: 392 | From New York | Registered: Dec 2005
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Aniek
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posted
Sparkle,
People do use Burbur without the whole protocol. I haven't done the whole protocol, just Cumanda for yeast and Burbur for detoxing. But I couldn't tolerate the Burbur. It caused diarhea.
I'm probably going to do Cowden in a few months. Right now, I'm detoxing so I can start moving metals.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
scott--in one of your posts u said a 2-1 issue of PHA will hace article on dr. cowden's protocol. what is pha? thanks!
-------------------- grape
*DX w/ MS March 1987 *Tested + for several lyme bands and erlichea July 2007 *Full Cowden protocol 7/07 - 4/08 *2000mg tetracycline since May 2008 Posts: 18 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2008
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SForsgren
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Member # 7686
posted
www.publichealthalert.org - a Lyme publication. Dr. C. will be the cover story in the March issue which will be up on the site the first week of Feb.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CD57
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Member # 11749
posted
Does the Cowden protocol cover bart or babesia, or just Lyme? Anyone know?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
The reading I've done indicates it just covers Lyme. I know he has many protocols so there may be others that cover co-infections.
My LLMD has me on Cowden and Zhangs Art because I had tested pos for Babs way back when. I did 7 months of Mepron but an occasional symptom seemed to indicate Babs. Of course I only have an occasional symptom so...
I could be wrong.
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
thanks, scott, i will definately watch for that article!
-------------------- grape
*DX w/ MS March 1987 *Tested + for several lyme bands and erlichea July 2007 *Full Cowden protocol 7/07 - 4/08 *2000mg tetracycline since May 2008 Posts: 18 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2008
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
i went to the nutramedix site, but man, is that expensive. i can't afford that.
can a person go out and just buy the liquid and do it themselves or must you buy all those other things also?
i have a friend who started with just the liquid samento and that helped her and then she started adding other things.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
I think Nutramedix has a proprietary way of extracting the herbs. I think their products are very good. I'm not sure if you would get as good results from another brand.
I definitely understand about the cost. You don't have to order the whole protocol - you could do it gradually, over time. That's what is known as the "limited" protocol. The instructions are on the site.
The first 3 herbs you need are Cumanda, Burbur & Parsley. You basicly take those for the first 17 days. So, you can put off getting the other products for a week or 2. I like to use something to absorb the toxins like Welchol or Nanotek Chitosan. They have zeolites on the Nutramedix site.
From the results I'm getting in a short space of time - it's worth it!
I don't think I have the co-infections but I was thinking of doing the Zhang protocol after I get through the Cowden herbs. The tests are not accurate for the co-infections so my doctor said I didn't need them based on my symptoms. I guess I'll see how it goes.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Before I started Cowden, I bought a large bottle of Cat's Claw from my LLMD that was the same price as the Samento from Nutramedix.
I used it and I herxed like a banchee.
When I asked if I could use that in lieu of Cowden, they told me to stick with Cowden's Samento so they monitor my progress.
Honestly, I do not think there is a difference. The whole TOA controversy is discussed in Buhners book.
I did not see a difference in the Cats Claw vs. the TOA free Samento from Nutramedix. The bottle I bought from my LLMD was about 10X larger than Cowdens Samento.
I can understand their hesitantcy in not wanting to stray from the same products line in a protocol, but financially if I had a choice of not taking it, or taking it due to costs, I would try and get the most for my money.
Just make sure it is a reputable brand.
Perhaps someone else will chime in on this.
Posts: 85 | From here | Registered: Jul 2007
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dontlikeliver
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posted
According to my former LLMD, now retired, Cat's Claw can cause kidney damage or even failure. As far as the TOA-free goes, he wasn't sure, but advised me to stop it.
On the other hand, my current LLMD recommends it.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
My LLMD said that Nutramedix/Cowden are coming out with a babesia treatment soon!!!
The cost is high .... but honestly, it's cheaper than one trip to NY!!!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
With regard to Cowden treating co-infections.
I spoke w/ a Naturapath who is on the protocol and she said she e-mailed Cowden a punch of questions regarding its effectiveness on co-infections and his response was that it does treat them w/ the exception of the most resistant types of Babs.
Posts: 137 | From wethersfield ct | Registered: Mar 2006
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CherylSue
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posted
The Cowden Nutramedix products can be purchased cheaper online from these sites:
Renewal Enterprises The Green Pharmacy Susan Ambrosino's Herbs (myherbs)
You don't have to purchase them directly from Nutramedix, although I think you do for the zeolite.
I've been taking cumanda and burbur since July. I didn't make too much progress until I tried the doxycyline in December.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
Nutramedix is releasing a new product next month that is potentially useful for the difficult Babesia issues as well as other parasites, microfilarial worms, etc. The product will be announced soon and the Dr. C article that will be in the next PHA on 2/1 or that week will have some details as well.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CherylSue
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posted
Nutramedix also introduced serrapeptase (replaces carnivora in the protocol, reduces fibrin)
and zeolite (chelates heavy metals)
I'm counting the days to see this new product. Either it is one of the above or a brand new one altogether.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
It is a brand new product, not Serrapeptase or Zeolite. I just did an interview of Dr. C. that mentions it. The interview will be available this weekend at the Florida Lyme conference I believe and then officially in the PHA first week of Feb. The product should be available in Feb as well.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Some days are good on the protocol and some days are terrible. I did not start experiencing night sweats until the 60th day on the cowden. I have no idea if this stuff is working or not?????
-------------------- Bullsye rash: 1994, tx w/ ABT, Symptomatic:1999 Hospitalization: 2004 Equivocol results (specialy lab) resulting in chronic use of ABT, herbs, etc ever since. Severity of symptoms continue to worsen intermittingly. Posts: 140 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
gm--i m very new to this board, but not new to chronic illness. was dx w/ ms early 1987. october 2006 added holistic doc and his phys asst (debbie) to my med team. stopped taking several 'traditional' meds late 2006 and started low does naltrexone (ldn--not fda approved www.lowdosenaltrexone.org) and large variety of supplements based on the different lab results debbie analyzed. by march 2007 i felt great! told husband i had no idea how poorly i felt until i started feeling better!
june 2007 debbie had recently returned from a lymes conference and it was suggested that the participants test all their ms patients for lymes. she did and test showed several positive bands. hmmmm....do i have ms or lymes? could i have both? got me---the symptoms r incredibly similar in many instances.
when i added debbie to 'my team', i made the decision to avoid as many traditional meds as possible. so, i chose to start cowdens protocol rather than antibiotics. i started his entire protocol in july 2007 and am still following it--i m in the 6th month.
i experienced 'noticeable' die off for the first 2-3 weeks----headaches, rash on thighs, some lethargy. it did pass and i really notice very little discomfort anymore. i m taking cowden's recommended number of drops of everything.
october 2007, one of debbies other ms patients who also has lymes made it out of her wheelchair after an 18 month daily iv of rocephin. debbie spoke w/ her llmd and we decided to do another lymes test on me to see how the cowden protocol was impacting me. some bands that were - are now either IND or +; however, i do still have several - bands. i can tell you that since october 2006 (ldn), january 2007 (supplements)that i have had zero debilitating progression whereas prior to oct 2006, i was steadily deteriorating.
debbie and i have decided to hold off on the antibiotics and to continue cowden for 3 more months and then we will have another discussion re: use of abx.
i still have some symptoms (balance left side stiffness, vision, bladder control and burning issues) and i m still in a w/c, but i sincerely feel the use of ldn, supplements and cowden have improved my overall health. husband recently had a bad cold and i did not get it! yae!
cowden protocol is expesive so i am thankful i read a post on this forum that shared another provider of nutramedix products at a lower price.
i dont know what my future decision will be regarding abx, but i will keep reading and learning so that i will know what to do when/if the time comes.
thanks for all your sharing---i find it to be very helpful!
-------------------- grape
*DX w/ MS March 1987 *Tested + for several lyme bands and erlichea July 2007 *Full Cowden protocol 7/07 - 4/08 *2000mg tetracycline since May 2008 Posts: 18 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by ctlyme: With regard to Cowden treating co-infections.
I spoke w/ a Naturapath who is on the protocol and she said she e-mailed Cowden a punch of questions regarding its effectiveness on co-infections and his response was that it does treat them w/ the exception of the most resistant types of Babs.
I was told that yesterday. Maybe I misunderstood, but my LLMD said it doesn't treat Babs. I think Quina may help. I now am now going back on Mepron, Zith, Septra and art because my Babs?Lyme is worst. Have been on cowden going on 8 months, malarone, and just started Art about 3 weeks ago.
I think the ART is drawing out the bugs because symptoms are coming out I haven't had in a year. Not this bad anyway. or I relapsed. Basically can't do much of anything.
LLMD thinks went downhill and have to do the regime.
On a positive note, Cowden is working on a Babs resistant protocol.
Posts: 85 | From here | Registered: Jul 2007
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
How does he know he's found herbs that work on babs? And if so why didnt anybody else find them until now? What studies has he done, for instance double blind in laboratory mice. Lots of claims but who knows what the evidence is or the safety of the herbs.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
After reading your posts, I guess I must be wrong, but back when I was on one of the earlier versions of Cowden's Protocol, I was given to understand that Quina, which comes from quinine, kills Babs.
Also, Samento itself is supposed to kill a couple of strains of Babs, but not all. Any dosage of Samento over 3 drops daily can stop my chills within 2 days, so I think I must have one of the Babs strains that Samento works against. My two Babs tests were negative, but we all know that does not mean much.
It did not matter for me that Quina kills Babs, since all quinine derivitives make me stop breathing, and are therefore off limits.
Both Samento and Cumanda made me herx, though I eventually stopped herxing on Cumanda. I now take only a small daily dose of Samento (2 drops), because I will still herx on higher doses after 4 yrs. of taking it, and my spouse refuses to put up with the resulting Lyme rages.
I failed to find any research showing kidney damage from Samento, but would love to have citations to such research, anyone? I ask because recently my BUN/Creatanine ratios have been off in my labs, which is a sign of kidney function. If the Samento is causing that, I want to know ASAP.
Klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
Hey, Scott Forsgren's article about the new Cowden protocol is now on his betterhealthguy website. The article is titled, "Expanded Treatment Focus Markedly Improves Lyme Disease Patient Outcomes."
Thanks, Scott!
P.S. Have you been using Dr. C's new suggested products? What has been your experience? Can it be taken with antibiotics (doxycycline)?
CherylSue
[ 19. January 2008, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: CherylSue ]
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I was going to post it, but I can't post the link since it is currently only available on my site and soon to be on the PHA site. I can't post my site links here without breaking the rules.
I have used Serrapeptase so far and am likely to try Enula. I have used the Zeolite that Dr. C suggested in the past and likely will change to the NM Zeolite. I have already purchased it but not yet started.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
The article is also posted on the Nutramedix Ecuador website.
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Grapecoolade - Thanks for the info about Naltrexone. I'm going to look into it.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
thank you, scott--m printing the article now! looking forward to reading it! i saw a post where serrapatase (misspelled) is now taken in lieu of carnivora?? is this correct? i also just purchased the aeolite hp---is that the product dr. c still recommends? this may all be spelled out ion your article, but i thought i would ask b-4 i log off---i have dial up and it is sloooooow. thanks
-------------------- grape
*DX w/ MS March 1987 *Tested + for several lyme bands and erlichea July 2007 *Full Cowden protocol 7/07 - 4/08 *2000mg tetracycline since May 2008 Posts: 18 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
He still does energetic testing with the Asyra or other tools as mentioned in the article to determine what the patient may need for his own patients, but for the NutraMedix protocol, Zeolite now replaces Algas and Serrapeptase replaces Carnivora. Make sure you read and understand the difference between Zeolite and Zeolite HP. For most people, Zeolite is the one to start with first and then later progress to the HP. Also mentioned in the article. Be well
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
truly loved your article, scott---very CLEAR!i m learning alot!
i did understand the difference between zeolite and zeolite hp. since i m in month 6 of the full protocol, i have previously used the algas , chorella and physasst also had me take dmsa. only doing algas at this time. it seems as if it is appropriate for me to go with the zelite hp at this time. i also will start the serrapeptase and return the unopened carnivora! i have sent all of this to phys asst and will touch base w/ her before i make these adjustments. i will also point out the 'free' offer of 6 months of the protocol to each physician's office (hoping i read that correctly!) i forget the name of the 'new' herb, but i need to get me some of that too! i m excited!
do u have any thoughts on how i find out if i have truly had lyme all these years rather than ms? or, does it even matter? i had 6mos follow up w/ neuro thursday and it truly was a regular NON appointment if u get my drift! i made him aware of the 2 lyme nests, ldn, cowden protocol, etc and received the typical verbiage re: scientific studies, blah, blah, blah...take care!
-------------------- grape
*DX w/ MS March 1987 *Tested + for several lyme bands and erlichea July 2007 *Full Cowden protocol 7/07 - 4/08 *2000mg tetracycline since May 2008 Posts: 18 | From maryland | Registered: Jan 2008
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i also just purchased the aeolite hp---is that the product dr. c still recommends? this may all be spelled out ion your article, but i thought i would ask b-4 i log off---i have dial up and it is sloooooow. thanks
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