posted
Hi everyone, I haven't heard much discussion about the above lately. Has GiGi returned from Germany with her unit? Does anyone know of any LLD in the US that agrees with this protocal, or are there any docs here who have the machine?Do we really know if this protocal works? Sorry for all the questions, it's just something I want to hop on board, if this proves to be as good as it is supposed to be. Thank you all in advance, and be well, Jan
Posts: 246 | From Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Jan, GiGi's husband will be receiving treatment in Germany so they will be there for three weeks.
As far as I know, they are still working on the FDA approval, so docs in the US are not using it yet. I believe it's so new that most of them have probably never even heard of it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
GiGi and her husband are in Germany now and I believe starting treatment this week. They will be there for a month. There are others that I am aware of that are also there now or going in July. So within a month, we should have more data.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
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posted
It is in hibernate until GiGi comes back. There is much she is going to learn about the device. Such as why the bionic 880, what nosodes to use, are there anything supplement to the treatment beyond what we currently know.
I believe her report will determine much, so hang in there.
In the mean time we just have to continue preparing if it is all we hope. Such as getting a group formed in Maryland and Massachusetts. And for me to get my butt in gear to get a private website together.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
I am so impatient to hear from her...
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posted
So am I. I am set to go to Berlin in July to be treated by a doc there with the BIONIC 880 but I am wondering if i should try to see Dr Woitzel instead - I may as well get the best after going all that way. Does anyone know if GiGi said anything about his fees? Whether he is more expensive than others?
Posts: 148 | From europe | Registered: Apr 2008
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sparkle7
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posted
I'm going to try the LightWorks by SOTA. It's $295. I just have to wait to save up the money.
I'm going to get it soon if things go well. Maybe within another week or so. Money is tight...
This device is similar but way cheaper. I do not know if I will be able to get the same effects as the Bionic 880 but I figured it's worth a try.
I'm doing well with the Cowden protocol so I don't know if I'll do the whole thing with the nosodes. I don't want to do too many treatments at the same time.
I figured that the infrared is good in any case. It heals so many things!
I'll keep everyone posted...
Donations are also accepted --- just kidding (not?).
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Mati - Gigi told me before she left that the initial consultation with Dr. W is 125 Euros and then the Biophoton treatment is between 30 and 70 Euros.
Most people need five treatments, all with two days in between (this is approx. for two to three weeks). The amount of treatments all depends on a person's condition, so several more may be required.
Hope this helps. Wish you all the best in Berlin.
Posts: 8981 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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I am thinking more on the lines of seeing Dr W as i have a big heavy metal problem and most docs are just not up to scratch in detoxing them. I am seriously thinking of going to Dr W now especially when he does not charge the earth! It is going to be sorting out accomodation that is the problem unless I hire a camper van from Berlin
Posts: 148 | From europe | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Sparkle, I'm very interested in how it works for you when you get the LED. I'm thinking of getting the same device. Just need a little push to get me over the edge. In the mean time 1 hour in the sun reading "Cure Unknown", both therapeutic.
I will still form the group for the bionic 880 though, I still think its important to follow the protocol. I now look at the device as just good to have in the house, and agree it is the best unit on the market for the money.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Mati, If it helps, I think it better to see Dr. W. especially with metals, just my opinion. Wish both of you great success in Germany.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Thanks so much. I think you are right. If GiGi chose him then its good enough for me.
Posts: 148 | From europe | Registered: Apr 2008
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oxygenbabe
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posted
I remember talking with Russ (?) at Soto some years ago, when I got the Chee Energy device, and this device was in planning/prototype. It looks good (and different than chee energy which is a great little device but also has blue and white LED's). The Nogier frequencies are important, they put an LED device in a whole new category.
I'm curious about this device and will give them a call sometime next week.
Sparkle I'm glad you're doing well with Cowden. I doubt this $295 device is at all similar to the Bionic 880 but who knows. Also, the nosodes and ART testing seem an important part of the Bionic 880.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
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posted
oxygenbabe - these are the differences between the LightWork & the Bionic 880...
Constant current of 20 milliamperes per LED (Constant current ensures each LED has the same output.)
60 x High Intensity Red LEDs at 660nm wavelength (+/- 10nm), Approximately 197mW Total Output
55 x High Intensity Near Infra-Red LEDs at 880nm wavelength (+/- 10nm), Approximately 228mW Total Output
Frequency tolerance: +/- 1Hz
Power Input: 12 Volts DC @ 1.0 Amps
--
The LightWorks is designed to generate an intense LED Light output using Constant-Current.
The Hand Paddle has high intensity LEDs on both sides. One side has 60 x Red LEDs at a wavelength of 660nm.
The other side of the Hand Paddle has 55 x high intensity Near-Infrared (NIR) LEDs at a wavelength of 880nm.
There are also 5 x Red LEDs at 660nm wavelength on the NIR side of the paddle to indicate the NIR LEDs are working as NIR light is invisible to the human eye.
There are 8 different selectable Modes (A through G and Constant).
The LightWorks unit will output a steady (non-pulsed) beam of LED light when in Constant Mode.
Additionally, the LightWorks unit can pulse the LEDs at specific healing frequencies (Modes A through G).
Modes are selected with the ON/OFF/MODE button. The currently selected Mode is indicated by the appropriate Green Mode lights.
The unit starts up in the Automatic Cycle, running through each of the 8 Modes for 4 minutes per Mode. An Orange light on the base indicates the Automatic Cycle has been selected.
In the Manual Cycle the Constant Mode will stay on for 30 minutes, and Modes A through G will stay on for 15 minutes.
When the LightWorks unit has completed a Manual or Automatic Cycle, it will shut itself OFF.
A Hand Paddle Button on the base unit is used to select which side of the paddle is active.
----------
Just compare them... For $300 you really can't beat it. LightWorks has less light & different frequencies but it's $1000s cheaper.
If you wanted to you could contact Elixa - http://www.elixa.com/light/custom.htm & they could probably make you a unit that is exactly the same as the Bionic 880 for alot less money.
The hardware is not that expensive. With the Bionic 880 you are probably paying for the research & development. Maybe the frequencies are significant but maybe not.
It it worth $1000s more? I don't know.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks Carol in PA. They may charge you the extra money for shipping & handling...
The $295 price I found on one site included the shipping.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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oxygenbabe
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posted
It sounds like Bionic is much stronger at the "surface"? I'm not technical so I'd need someone in the industry to explain to me. I know a maker of LED's and I wrote him. I'll also call Soto and ask them. And the doc behind the chee energy device, I can ask him, too.
What exactly are you planning to do with the Soto device? My understanding was you were activating the information from the nosodes via the device. Are you planning to buy nosodes and muscle test yourself? It would be kinda hard to do!
Otherwise what you've got is a device that 1) is good for pain 2) good for tissue healing and 3) you can use on your acupuncture meridians, which I've done in the past with the chee energy device. It was *strong* but that was on red white and blue that it was so very energizing on the meridians. The infrared and red were calming. I could put it at the base of my spine and fall into a deep sleep for about six hours. That worried me as I didn't want to stimulate my system with LEDs for six hours, so I stopped that experiment.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Let me add that...in trying to find the email of a guy who makes regular LED devices for pain and healing, I went through nearly four years of emails stored in an Outlook folder called "Health." It was amazing how many things I researched, inquired about, or actually tried in early years of lyme. I was a veritable one-woman enterprise. I had forgotten how many people I contacted about all kinds of approaches from bee venom to ozone saunas. Not that I tried them all, but I was in contact with a wide range of folks, and many were very kind and helpful. Well, I'm going to rejoin the yahoo group where this post from Russ at Soto was posted (I assume I can repost here). I think the reason Bionic is expensive would be the quality of the LED's. I'm sure Russ used quality LED's and I know someone here spoke with him but I'm definitely going to call him later this week.
Here was his post in 2004 to another poster, he was at the beginning stages of making the device Sparkle is planning to buy:
---- You mentioned that the penetration of the 615 nm is less than the 660's. I may hazzard a guess as to why: perhaps it is the eye's sensitivity to different wavelengths that makes it appear that the penetration is less? 880nm might not "look" like they penetrate at all since we cannot see much IR light! I say that the only way is to use a Optical Power Meter and take an actual measurement in mW to see if the light indeed penetrates as expected or not. I just purchased such a meter: a Newport 1830-C Optical Power Meter. It does not tell you the wavelength but its sensor measures from 410nm to 1100nm. Very cool instrument. I bought it to test the LEDs I will be using in our soon-to-be released LightWorks unit. (If you want to send me a sample of the LEDs you are using I can test their mW output at 20mA driving current. As long as I know the wavelength I can give you a precise mW output reading. I can also shine the LED through my hand to see what wavelength penetrates better. I don't have any 615nm LEDs at present.)
I also found out that cheap LEDs have varing mW output that can be 25- 50% off from one another. The more expensive LEDs are "binned" so the mW output is held to very tight tolerances. That is why the NASA unit sells for $5,500 USD. I've sure learned a bunch since I started my research on LED light therapy. Cheers! Russ :>) ---- I've just found an email to Russ from 3 1/2 years ago, and his phone #, so I've emailed him again, and hopefully will talk to him this week.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
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That sounds great, oxygenbabe. Let us know what you find out.
Seems SOTA is on top of it to some degree.
Maybe it's better & cheaper if we just go out & sit in the sun?
I think I'm going to hold off on the nosode treatment with the infrared since I'm already on the Cowden protocol right now.
The Cowden protocol seems to be going well for me now so I'm continuing along with that.
I don't think it's a good idea to do too many things at once.
I'll have to actually try the device first & then I'll see what I feel like doing. I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it.
I don't know ART but I am pretty intuitive & I rely on that for many things.
I can also use dowsing. I know some people feel it's phoney but it seems to work for me.
There are many good alternative treatments to try - bee venom, homeopathy, various herbal protocols, grapefruit seed extract, etc.
I do think having an infrared device is useful for aches & pains. My boyfriend can use it, too.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie_in_md
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I'm going back to my comment on the LED diodes are the expense, great post Oxygenbabe.
quote:The more expensive LEDs are "binned" so the mW output is held to very tight tolerances. That is why the NASA unit sells for $5,500 USD. I've sure learned a bunch since I started my research on LED light therapy.
The physics is in the LED diodes being used to make the bionic 880 is the expense. I'll ask the manufacturer specifically on Monday what LED diode technology they are using.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Yes, let us know Lymie in MD. I really do think there is a difference. One device is $300 and another $10,000, I don't think its just scam marketing. However the question is: what is the minimum amount of power needed, tight "coupling" (ie margin for error), and how many frequencies and at what frequencies...to make an effective device using A.R.T. and nosodes. In other words, must the device be as sophisticated and powerful as Bionic 880? Perhaps so. But we don't know.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
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posted
Maybe the LEDs are special, maybe not...
When the iPhone first came out it was double of what it is now. How long did that take - 6-9 months (?) I don't recall. Why? What's that all about?
Light is light. If it can be measured specifically maybe it does make a difference. We have to do some research on it.
As demand increases & production gears up, the cost goes down.
Great work guys! Doing this all together, we will eventually find out the real deal with all of this.
I would also like to know how the people making the Bionic 880 decided to use the frequencies that they do. They are different than the Nogier frequencies that are fairly popular.
Do these frequencies actually make a difference? I haven't been able to find much information that they do.
I did find out that anything over 55 cycles per second (if I recall correctly) cannot be seen by human eyes.
Maybe it's sensed by the body but I do not know.
I think what more important is the measurement of the lightwave (880nm). I'm sure the brightness makes a difference but I don't know this either.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Dave6002
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Member # 9064
posted
There was a discussion on a similar IFR product which use LEDs emitting EMs with wave length of several microns. The 880nm is 0.88 micron. I didn't see any fundamental difference between them. They all give heat.
NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14794
posted
I have spoken with someone who has a device by: theledman.net - He loves it.
Also the colorlightinstitute.com has some devices that are a little more pricey but seem to come with a lot more - exchangeable colored glass caps etc.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
NO FDA approval is nec.
Devices are ALREADY available here at a significantly lower price!!!
Considered a physical therapy device, not a medical device.
I do not have the technical savy to evaluate the effectiveness of the various manufacturers, but I personally would love to try this one:
My research, links, etc. are done "gratis". I have absolutely no tie to anyone and will not/have not taken one cent ever for this research which is done to try to help my sister and so many others. God's truth.
Jill...what we are headed for is yellow to block the Na channels.
Very simplified:
880nM to stimulate COX-1-> PGE-1 -> HO-1 (heme oxygenase) -> Fe, CO, and green Biliverdin.
Green absorbs red making yellow.
"These results suggest that light-exposed LY yields radical species that modify Na+ channels." Lucifer Yellow CH (LY)
And Bb is impacting the Na-Ca channels.
It looks to need Na as it does CO2 to make Na acetate...ultimately...which is water soluable.
The more hot water, the more dissolved.
See also my recent posts on the WFL and the post titled "I'm gonna try my hardest".
WFL may have a methylase gene. Methy transfer.
If Bb's PKC inhibitor is PKCD...and this is impacting the gamma-delta T cells...
We need to give those cells more "energy" i.e., PPi (delta) so ADP-> ATP.
Too much PGE-2, not enough PGE-1.
TNF alpha and IL1 B ...alpha and beta are on, but the first on the scene...gamma-delta are wounded. Can't present the right antigens.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
There are two different threads going that are nearly exact.
be sure to see this one, too.
------------------------------------------
Topic: has anyone heard an update on the bionic 880?
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