posted
I am almost certain I've herxed once before, two weeks ago today. Today is my 25th day on ABx. I increased the dosage 10 days ago.
I think I started to herx for a second time either 2 days ago or yesterday.
Basically, I feel like I have the flu. Some chills with hot feverish feeling skin. Some body aches again although the aches aren't as bad as they were during Herx #1. The herx #2 started with some headaches earlier in the week. I remember some saying that after you herx, you get better (which happened after Herx #1) and you also won't have as intense a herx during the next herx.... which would also hold true here.
Just hoping this is what is taking place in me and not a worsening of my condition without reason.
posted
Herxing is always that tough question.. or is it a herx, is it a reaction to the meds?
To me, its a herx if you go on abx and you get the same crud symptoms that you were getting before...but then after its all done you feel better.
As for me, I think Ive been going thru my own round of herxing the past few days as Ive started up the new LLMD protocol (omnicef, biaxin, and starting tomorrow..adding on tindamax). Ive already had cry spells, hot, cold, some light shakes, headache, body aches, tired, basically feel like the flu. You just feel miserable and the symptoms wax, wane rotate and trash you.
I can honestly say that I didnt feel this miserable before starting the abx....and if I feel better in a few days, weeks, then I know for sure.
As for worsening the condition, I dont see how that can happen. You're taking meds that are supposed be good for you (abx, supplements to replenish biotics, magnesium, etc.), so I dont see the lyme getting worse while doing the protocol.
Posts: 514 | From . | Registered: Apr 2008
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Clarissa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4715
posted
Clint:
Goto this website and click on Lyme links. There is a ton of information on herxes and everything you're experiencing.
i.e.:Overview: The herxheimer reaction, nicknamed "herx" or otherwise referred to as Jarisch- Herxheimer (J-H) is a phenomena originally observed in the treatment of syphilis, but later found in other illness. In general terms, it is described as a temporary increase of symptoms when anti-syphilitic drugs (antibiotics) are administered. What is known or speculated about Lyme disease herxheimers are based heavily on the reactions seen in syphilis. This is due to the fact both diseases are caused by a bacteria known as a spirochete, the former being Treponema pallidum, the latter Borrelia burgdoferi (B.b). However the herxheimer reactions in Lyme disease are not identical to those seen in syphilis, especially in terms of timing, frequency and duration as noted below.
In Lyme disease it is thought that the cause of herxheimers are the result of endotoxin release, that is toxin(s) within the spirochete that are released as the B.b are killed or broken down. This may be a result of the toxin(s) itself or the body's immune response to such.
Symptoms:
As mentioned, the general description is a temporary increase in symptoms, but also included is the development of new ones. More specifically the most common events include: increased joint or muscle pain, headaches, chills, fever (usually low grade), drop in blood pressure, hives and rash. A multitude of other symptoms have been described.
Worth noting is that hives and rash are sometimes mistaken for an allergic reaction. It is up to one's physician to determine this, but with close observation and the use of medications such as Benedryl often prevents stopping antibiotics prematurely. In more severe cases of J-H a reduction of the dosage or temporarily cessation of the treatment is an alternative.
Timing, Frequency and Duration:
This is individualistic and Herxheimer can occur within days to weeks after the onset of antibiotic therapy. In some patients they occur only once or twice (if at all) and with others continue throughout the course of treatment, usually lessening in severity. They can occur and are more often described in cycles (example: every 4 weeks) and have been reported to last from days to weeks.
It can be very beneficial to document these exacerbations. Some physicians use this as a guideline for treatment. Further it may help differentiate herxheimers from the normal symptoms or progression of Lyme disease.
Treatment:
Herxheimer reactions can be very difficult on patients and affect compliance with therapy so supportive measures should be sought or utilized to lessen discomfort if needed. The use of aspirin, NSAIDs (non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs), pain medication, muscle relaxers, hot baths or others remedies can be appropriate. Of note, some have found Benedryl helpful even in the absence of rash or hives.
The good news is that the herxheimer is thought to indicate that the antibiotics are indeed working and that following each worsening may bring about more improvement. However the lack of herxheimer reaction should not cause anxiety if symptoms are improving.
Other considerations:
Something often overlooked but can present with similar symptoms as a herxheimer is Candida (yeast) infection. Treatment with acidophilus and if needed prescription medications such as Nystatin or Diflucan can be utilized.
posted
Chills definitely ia a herx symptom. Try drinking alot of fresh lemon in water this will help you detox faster.
Posts: 115 | From warwick, new york | Registered: Mar 2008
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I HIGHLY doubt it could mean you are getting worse. Since you are currently on Doxy and Zithro, it doesn't make sense that the Lyme or Bartonella could be increasing. Therefore, i would assume it's another Herx.
My Herx symptoms were never very typical, so I can't really comment on that. Based on that medical definition of a Herx above, it sounds like exactly what you are describing, so that should be reassuring. I believe it says fever and chills.
The only other thing it could be is a possible babesia infection surfacing. I know that is something you will be taking into consideration.
Don't worry about your Lyme getting worse though, because you are doing the best possible thing you could be doing for it, which is staying on your meds. So you are right in assuming it is a Herx.
Good luck.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
This morning I've had an increase in muscle ache and pain. This soreness is in my left leg, leg arm, left foot/ankle, left hand and upper back under the shoulder blade.
Could these be part of a herx? They are similar but not as intense as the aches I was having before starting my ABx treatment about a month ago (July 7). I am hoping its just part of a Herx and not my condition worsening.
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