Topic: Who is thinking about going to Germany for Bionic 880?
Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi, I know that others (like myself) are excited about Dr. W in Germany. Is anyone seriously considering going after we hear the results from the current group?
I am seriously considering it. My husband will get a work bonus in December that may cover most of the cost for me to go. I would love to room with one or 2 other people to reduce the cost and just to have support to go through the same things.
After 12 years, I just want to feel 'normal' again and excited about life. For me, it would be a financial gain as I would be able to start working again.
Finally getting diagnosed this week has me considering whether I even want to start the whole antibiotic regimen, the bionic 880 seems to work more quickly if they haven't been taken from what I have read.
posted
I would if I had the money and wasnt too sick to travel.
I am at the point that I cannot live in this body anymore...so I would try it if there was a chance that I could benefit from it.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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feelfit
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Member # 12770
posted
Hi Ocean,
I am seriously thinking about it. I am waiting for the reports from Six, Steel and the other woman who is there now (can't remember her name at the moment).
I need these reports to be positive to solidify my decision. I am also a fearful flier, haven't flown since Lyme disease....so I will have to jump this hurdle too.
That said, I would do ANYTHING to be rid of this horrible disease.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
FeelFIt.. I am also waiting from the reports of Six and Steelbone.. As I trust their word.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I think we are all watching them. Hoping they will all come back with good reports.
-------------------- Gail Posts: 234 | From Sterling, Ma | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Sounds good! Feelfit, I also am a fearful flyer, only have flown 2 round trips in my life (both to CA and back) and had a thunderstorm landing into Chicago this past May (while the flight attendants kept warning of possible severe 'chop'), we also had a medical emergency on the flight, so an ambulance was waiting for us and that passenger/family got off first. Whew, what an experience for a fearful flyer. Oh, we also had to circle around Chicago way over the lake for 25 mins until most of the storm passed. Talk about deep breathing
I totally get the flying thing. I did ALOT of research about fear of flying and joined a forum on MSN about fear of flying. I can tell you that I did not have a single panic attack and talked myself down when I felt anxious and took my rescue remedy as needed. I was still too nervous to eat much (but it was only a 4.5 hour flight too).
I had a panic attack just getting my car oil changed a week before the flight, I was terrified. But I was able to do it, much to my surprise AND I think that the fact that we may be getting a much better quality of life is a HUGE incentive!
My sister in law who flew to Africa a few years ago said it was the smoothest flight she was ever on.
I guess we can all talk more when the current group gets back then!
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Can anyone comment on expected total cost for treatment for whatever period is typical? I don't recall seeing this.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Paul told me about $6,000. They are chipping in on things too.
-------------------- Gail Posts: 234 | From Sterling, Ma | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi Seek, Yes, on the Bionic 880 thread, it was said that Dr. W's cost is anywhere from $2000-$3000 for 3 weeks. Then the cost of housing, rental car, airfare in food is all on you too.
I figure that since my husband opted for the HSA Bank account insurance (meaning we have to pay a $3400 deductible out of pocket before they will pay for my meds), that I will pay a little more for going to Germany, but the benefits will be well worth it!
Considering some people pay up to $3K/week for IV meds, well, for me, I'm more of an alternative medicine kind of gal, and the way the photons work make sense to me.
anyhow, that's what I had read, someone correct me if I am wrong!!
posted
For anyone that is considering going and doesn't know, there is another woman going with Six and Steel named Ruth. Six has a blog going right now that she is diligently updating after each treatment. The url is: sixgoofykids.blogspot.com
I will be flying over to join them next Tuesday, and my first appointment is on Thursday the 23rd. I will try to update my existing blog when I get the chance as well:
pathogensoup.blogspot.com
I think my experience will be of interest especially to those whom consider themselves severely ill. I feel I'm a tier below six and steel, as I can't even imagine taking a long walk around town and eating an authentic german meal (fried pork, potatoes etc) like they have done. My mom is joining me to drive me around and cook for me.
Before this, I'd been on antibiotics for about 4 months, improved around 10% from 40% functionality. Now that I've been off them in preparation for the bionic, I am feeling much like I did before antibiotics (and appreciating just how much of a difference antibiotics made)
My worst symptoms are cognitive dysfunction and fatigue.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
I have a great interest, but can't just leave my teaching job. I also want to wait a few months after these people get back to see if the treatment holds. Maybe late spring or early summer if it works for others. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10168 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
......thinking about it here too. Just not sure I am capable of making the trip.
Sending hope to all who are there, and to m0joey!! Joey I just sent ya an email. Didn't even know you were thinking about going!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Maybe if this works, we can be the next group to go!!! (crossing fingers) as I am also a skeptic, but trying to keep an open mind!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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I want to go this summer but it would be for me and my two girls and it would be expensive. I'd have no problem putting it on a credit card.
Normally, I charge only what I pay off each month and am careful with debt but this is important. If it works, I don't mind going in to hawk to Chase for it.
Anyone know?
Gigi?
-------------------- Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08. Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber Posts: 183 | From all around | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
How much does one of these devices cost? It's silly to have people spending $5000-6000 a pop to go to Germany for treatment. We could probably just buy one ourselves for not a whole lot more.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Even if it may be best to buy a machine for continued care, I'd sure want the expert to work with me for the first few weeks.
I've tried on my own to get well for decades and barely have managed. True, I've not had this machine, but learning from an experienced doctor would be so great if that is possible.
There is a great deal of value in having someone who has seen hundreds or thousands of others with TBD - someone who has an open mind about how to prioritize and the proper order of techniques. Someone who has seen what works and what does not.
Still, of course, we all have our budgets.
I know we all dream of the best and safest treatment and we then get to figure out how to do the best we can. Rather than put all one's eggs in a 3-week time capsule, it's good to consider all aspects, especially looking ahead to practical matters.
If you search "Bionic 880" there are several threads and the cost of the machine is there somewhere.
It would be great to get some local doctors interested - for those who will be able to travel to Germany, perhaps a MD or ND might be interested in going along. As education, it would be deductible.
As GiGi has stated many times, ANYONE can learn this. It would be the first phase of treatment, though, where local doctors could then be most helpful. And, if they had the machines, could offer treatments for reasonable fees.
posted
I just wanted to chime in that I am very interested and have been following the threads. I would like to go after it's not quite so cold there--perhaps when the winter starts to thaw into spring, but before 'tourist' season drives up prices.
I, too, hate flying...but you know what they say, it's safer than driving! It must be the feeling a lack of control thing
About expenses--from talking to Gigi, you can charge Dr. W's fees but not the Bionic 880. Restaurants and gas stations take credit cards, but the Kleins and most grochery stores do not.
I would be interested in meeting up with some fellow lymenetters as well. Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
jessesapp--if you take a look at six's blog, you'll see this treatment is far from all gain and no pain. Six said she felt "horrible" after the first treatment, although much better a few days later. There is clearly a herx-like reaction afterwards. She also said Dr. W looks at the whole body before deciding what spots to project the light on. I really wouldn't encourage any patient whom hasn't been trained by Dr. W and his staff to shine this machine on a whim, and I wouldn't wanna be the guinea pig of an untrained doc either. Unlike antibiotics which have a pretty deep track record, we really know nothing of the long-term safety of this. Dr. W probably does though.
Speaking of which, let's compare this to antibiotics. After all, there's plenty of information about brands, dosages, and timing in a msg board such as this, but we still look to guidance from our LLMDs because they've seen hundreds, sometimes thousands, of patients and their experience allows them to see things that we're not even looking for.
I know there is a chiro in California that has the Bionic now, so if I didn't think going to Germany would be worthwhile, I would just take a flight up to norcal to get a nice shine on. We all hope that in time, U.S. practitioners will get training at the source so that we don't need to fly overseas to optimize results while protecting our bodies in the process, but that'll take a few more years that some patients might not have the patience for.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I am seriously considering going over in February. My main issue however is chronic and debilitating fatigue and headaches. I don't have any of the other issues everyone else discusses, so I'm not sure if it will work for me or not. After some more research, if I still feel comfortable that it can help, I may go.
Posts: 215 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I wanted to make a clarification about the previous post: I heard from my doc that Dr. H knows of a chiro using the bionic in norcal. I do not know the specifics nor did I ask because I was planning on going to Germany. If anyone is seeing Dr. H soon, please ask him for this information. I will not see him until I get back from Germany, but if I don't hear anything through the grapevine by then, I will ask personally.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
quote:Originally posted by Annxyz: A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
I thought there were already a few groups doing this? What happened to them?
Posts: 268 | From new york city | Registered: May 2008
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
I'm interested in going.
Two things--in Germany, they tend to shut down over the Christmas holidays, PLUS Dr. W is MOVING, according to GiGi. So, be sure to book your appointment in advance before making any travel plans!!
Second, I got a brochure from the company that GiGi recommended, and their representative emailed me that the Bionic 880 costs $5600 if it's for export to the US. If you're going to keep it in Germany, you have to pay the German taxes. This could change, depending on exchange rates.
I'm interested in going. I plan to pay attention to what happens with the folks over there now after they come back. If I were to go, it would be in March or April of next year.
Since Dr. W does other things, like infusions, chiropractic, etc., it seems that a large part of the success of the treatment is from his expertise. At this point, that counts a lot for me.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
i'm interested in going as well, depending on six's and other's reports; possibly next summer.
what i don't yet understand is how folks maintain their progress/continue the bionic treatment once they return to the states. i'm assuming you'd have to purchase a machine (no way can i afford that on top of a trip to germany for treatment!) and a biotensor to do this? what about the mineral IVs and dr. w's detox protocols?
posted
Ann I think the idea to buy one together to use would be great!! I wonder if we can look having people find a good location in regions around the country and pitch in for the cost. What would be even better is if we could help someone go to Germany so they have more experience and bring it back. I am sure some would feel like they were missing out by not going and wanting to invest money themselves to go, but what a way to bless someone else by helping with their expenses. Some of us with young children cannot go. I couldn't afford it anyway but, I would be willing to help someone else go. Especially, if it turns out to be effective long term. I am fairly new here so I don't know about who has gone. Has anyone gone and had good long term results yet.
Posts: 43 | From md | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I'm waiting to hear how everyone that is there now feels after all the treatments are done.
Posts: 123 | From Georgia | Registered: Jul 2008
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NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14794
posted
After having been to Germany for treatment I feel Dr. W's expertise is invaluable. The infusions you receive after treatments are very important to help deal with toxins being released and keeping magnesium levels up etc.
The nosodes you get while there are specifically for you and my understanding is that you do not use them on someone else. In other words if you plan on letting others use your machine, they would have to have their own nosodes.
I wouldn't feel comfortable myself without having had him test me for what I needed.
Just thought I would put my two cents in.
The cost of the machine is 5,800 Euro if you bring it back with you. The dollar is stronger now and ends up being around $7,770. If you have it shipped here it is substantially more.
There have been mixed reports of success having a machine shipped here from Germany. The gentleman at the company said you might be lucky and it would get through and it might not.
I believe Gigi's got hung up for unknown reasons but they have been successfully shipped to Canada and maybe other places. Worth a try.
This is a powerful and effective device and if you do not have a practitioner who knows how to use it, my opinion is to be treated by Dr. W and then if you want a machine, you will have a better grasp of what is involved.
Not rocket science but not a toy either. Again, just my opinion.
Dr. W does take MC and Visa. He does speak fairly good English but long conversations with complicated questions can be difficult. I do not speak one word of German (other than what I picked up there) and I got along okay.
Hope that is helpful.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Member # 14197
posted
KGarrett, I've been in the process of putting a group together in Maryland. I have some folks interested, I have identified practioners. Here's out it works, we have a group appointment to be energetically tested to how we would benefit from our own machine. We purchase the machine as a group and we work our treatment as a group. We'll say the cost is 100 dollars a person for each appointment and we buy the machine to use ourselves. Cost under 2k i'm guessing for the machine and the appointments and 200 dollars for the nosodes.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I am leaving soon as well and am looking forward to the trip. I know five personal friends now that have gone - all with very positive results.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
if the bionic makers don't take credit cards, how can you pay for it?
how about the kleins?
thanks
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I am seriously considering taking my daughter to see Dr. W as I find it much more difficult to get her well.
We are thinking about February or March if the reports continue to come back favorably. It would be great to go with others, and share in the expenses.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
nyjohn--I'm not the best one to answer this since I haven't gone yet, but I can tell you that Gigi paid for her bionic with a bank transfer. She said it was really easy. I'm not sure about the Kleins. My guess would be bring travelers checks and exchange money over there?
Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I am considering going as well. I will most likely need to travel with my husband or a family member as I need help getting around and am also on a very restrictive diet (but cannot cook for myself).
I would also consider buying a machine IF I could find a practitioner close by who would help me with treatment. Does Dr. W. share his protocol with other MDs or NDs?
maybe you can post this question on six's blog and see if she'll gets the chance to ask him?
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
I just want to offer the following for consideration. I'm not sure any good ND/MD knowledgeable about energy medicine need learn anything from Dr. W. on how to do his protocol. He is doing nothing more then what these professional are already currently doing. The big differences between what he is doing is the machine the nosodes and the use of a tensor IMO.
GiGi already mentioned her grand daughter could operate the machine with the nosodes.
So what does the ND need to be aware of, metals in the body, biotoxins, and drainage.
If you think of it, buy your own machine and set up an appointment with Dr. K. and bring it with you and apply the treatment with your own machine. Dr. K. doesn't need to be trained in using energy medicine.
Maybe GiGi can confirm my thinking! Just thinking out box!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I just wanted to be clear about the dif between live vials of borrelia and nosodes: nosodes carry the energetic frequency of borrelia but not necessarily the live material itself although it CAN in small amounts, while the live vials are just that--all live?
anyone clear on this?
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Responding to Bob in Maryland...
Yes, but are there not factors of time, and perhaps intensity, not to mention having some knowledge or ability to assess how much each person can take in treatment? Or where to start?
Also, detoxing is another equally important consideration.
Perhaps I am making this more complicated, but it would surprise me that anyone could just step in without some guidance and begin using the Bionic 880.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Claire,
It might depend on the level of expertise of the practioner. No question Dr. W. is very experienced!
We are now hearing from sooo many who have endured the lyme battles and hopefully will soon come to the end of the lyme road.
Hopefully we can have a healthy debate on practioners using the bionic here. And it is hard to argue some of your points. There are many things to consider for getting a bionic hear in the hands of folks. And there is the comfort with Dr. W.'s success as seen by those who have or who are getting treatment.
If one of the three in Germany, either Paul, Six, or Ruth could get Dr. W.'s opinion. It might help assess the arguement.
I suspect Dr. W. is going to be over run with folks wanting treatment and your ability to schedule from weeks to months to years might occur. Practioners here may go from nice to necessity!
Thanks Claire for responding to my point, with a counter point, I really don't have the complete answer.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Hi everyone!
I hear that Dr. K is interested in the machine and heard about it from GiGi. It seems that she has mentioned that on another post.
I'm doing fine and speak no German.
Dr. W speaks at medical conventions here in Germany, so apparently he shares his protocol.
There are nosodes used and everyone has to have their own. So I had to buy 8 so that when I get home I can treat my whole family if they all need it. I don't want to buy 4 or 5 and find out they all test positive for it.
You cannot buy the live bacteria vial in Germany, only the nosodes. Dr. W provides the bacterial vial and you cannot take it from his office. So unless you can get a live vial, the treatment here will be faster than at home. He said it would work with nosodes only, but not as fast.
As Joey said, it's not no pain. The treatment can be hard. Steel and Willow had flares after the second treatment, I did not. I just feel better.
Mrs. Klein said that two years ago someone stayed here and Mrs. Klein had never heard of Lyme before. That lady was getting treatment from Dr. W and now she comes back once per year for a checkup. Both years she has still been Lyme free.
The objective of this treatment is to get Lyme free so the idea is that you would not need more treatment. For those who want a 4 week checkup like Dr. W does, if you know someone with the Bionic, perhaps you could borrow theirs for that one treatment.
It is hard to get my own questions asked by Dr. W because he is very busy and when I go in for treatment the nurse takes care of me, so please, no questions for me to ask Dr. W. I can answer based on my experience, but I'm not taking questions to him.
I had a question on my blog about bartonella. He does not test for coinfections, but they are supposed to clear with the Lyme. My babesia is flaring. I have had night sweats and air hunger. The night sweats are not normal for me, haven't had them in months, so I know it's the photons causing this flare.
The Kleins only take cash ... Nanadubo said that debit cards are easier than traveler's checks ... I don't know as I haven't run out of cash yet.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Thanks for the update Six! Glad it's going well after only 2 treatments. It's so encouraging for those of us interested in the Bionic and Dr. W.
Obviously, I would rather do the treatment here if possible. I have an alternative MD that I'm sure would be on board and my uncle is a chiropractor who would be willing to help out, it's just that no one here knows exactly how to do the treatments/supplemental therapy.
I too wish a US doc would go over, although then, who knows, if it's not 'FDA' approved, the medical association may go after him/her.
quote:Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE: I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
I feel exactly the same way. Extremely skeptical, and I also have concerns over conflicts of interest. However, if the folks who went do well (they seem to be non-biased as far as I can tell), then I'd consider it - if I had a windfall, because I certainly cannot afford it now.
Also I totally agree on the "how will they be feeling in the future" statement. At least 6 months later, will they all still maintain it was a 100% cure? Important things to think about before taking the plunge.
posted
I am very skeptical about many things yet for some reason not this treatment. I think everyone has to follow their own intuition about different treatments and listen to others they respect and trust and then decide for themselves.
I actually can not wait to go to Germany. I just have a very good positive feeling about this MD and treatment.
I luckily have been all over the world to many different countries by myself and have almost no fear of flying so maybe that helps in feeling good about hoping to get to go to Germany.
Six thank you for all your updates and may you continue to have a wonder trip. It sounds very exciting!!!!!
NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14794
posted
Angelica - I love your attitude I believe that will help you heal more quickly. Dr. W talks about this.
Heads up on travelers checks. I had difficulty finding a bank that would even cash them for Euros. I was quite surprised. I did finally find one but it was not all that convenient.
If I were to do it again, I would use just debit cards to get cash. Be sure to let your bank know you will be out of the country so they don't start refusing it.
Not sure what the conflicts of interest are Nobody. I'm just a woman who had an active life and got very sick. I am no longer and hope everyone can have the same experience.
Healthy skepticism is understandable and everyone must make there own choice. For me it was simple, just go. Simple, uncomplicated things always work best for me.
It is correct that you need to transfer funds for a bionic880 and for a biotensor. Maybe someday they will take credit cards but they do not right now. Both companies can supply you with their bank information.
The Kleins only take cash as do restaurants and almost every shop I went in to. Gas stations take credit cards as do car rental companies.
All the best to those of you considering going. I am in the process of helping my acupuncturist get her son there. I would love to go back again but when I do, it will be for a holiday!
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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btw, you should be able to trade in cashier's checks for euros at the airport when you arrive, but there might be a bit of a larger fee than at a local bank. when i was in munich there were banks everywhere that cashed in the checks for euros. but that was munich, over a million in population, not dobel.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Bob -- I just read six's blog for Thursday at her other site, and from what she describes about the procedure itself, it appears to be fairly straightforward.
So you could very well be right. I am too used to things not being simple in LD. More time and reports will tell.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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