Topic: Who is thinking about going to Germany for Bionic 880?
Ocean
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posted
Hi, I know that others (like myself) are excited about Dr. W in Germany. Is anyone seriously considering going after we hear the results from the current group?
I am seriously considering it. My husband will get a work bonus in December that may cover most of the cost for me to go. I would love to room with one or 2 other people to reduce the cost and just to have support to go through the same things.
After 12 years, I just want to feel 'normal' again and excited about life. For me, it would be a financial gain as I would be able to start working again.
Finally getting diagnosed this week has me considering whether I even want to start the whole antibiotic regimen, the bionic 880 seems to work more quickly if they haven't been taken from what I have read.
posted
I would if I had the money and wasnt too sick to travel.
I am at the point that I cannot live in this body anymore...so I would try it if there was a chance that I could benefit from it.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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feelfit
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posted
Hi Ocean,
I am seriously thinking about it. I am waiting for the reports from Six, Steel and the other woman who is there now (can't remember her name at the moment).
I need these reports to be positive to solidify my decision. I am also a fearful flier, haven't flown since Lyme disease....so I will have to jump this hurdle too.
That said, I would do ANYTHING to be rid of this horrible disease.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
FeelFIt.. I am also waiting from the reports of Six and Steelbone.. As I trust their word.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I think we are all watching them. Hoping they will all come back with good reports.
-------------------- Gail Posts: 234 | From Sterling, Ma | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ocean
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posted
Sounds good! Feelfit, I also am a fearful flyer, only have flown 2 round trips in my life (both to CA and back) and had a thunderstorm landing into Chicago this past May (while the flight attendants kept warning of possible severe 'chop'), we also had a medical emergency on the flight, so an ambulance was waiting for us and that passenger/family got off first. Whew, what an experience for a fearful flyer. Oh, we also had to circle around Chicago way over the lake for 25 mins until most of the storm passed. Talk about deep breathing
I totally get the flying thing. I did ALOT of research about fear of flying and joined a forum on MSN about fear of flying. I can tell you that I did not have a single panic attack and talked myself down when I felt anxious and took my rescue remedy as needed. I was still too nervous to eat much (but it was only a 4.5 hour flight too).
I had a panic attack just getting my car oil changed a week before the flight, I was terrified. But I was able to do it, much to my surprise AND I think that the fact that we may be getting a much better quality of life is a HUGE incentive!
My sister in law who flew to Africa a few years ago said it was the smoothest flight she was ever on.
I guess we can all talk more when the current group gets back then!
seekhelp
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Member # 15067
posted
Can anyone comment on expected total cost for treatment for whatever period is typical? I don't recall seeing this.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Paul told me about $6,000. They are chipping in on things too.
-------------------- Gail Posts: 234 | From Sterling, Ma | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi Seek, Yes, on the Bionic 880 thread, it was said that Dr. W's cost is anywhere from $2000-$3000 for 3 weeks. Then the cost of housing, rental car, airfare in food is all on you too.
I figure that since my husband opted for the HSA Bank account insurance (meaning we have to pay a $3400 deductible out of pocket before they will pay for my meds), that I will pay a little more for going to Germany, but the benefits will be well worth it!
Considering some people pay up to $3K/week for IV meds, well, for me, I'm more of an alternative medicine kind of gal, and the way the photons work make sense to me.
anyhow, that's what I had read, someone correct me if I am wrong!!
posted
For anyone that is considering going and doesn't know, there is another woman going with Six and Steel named Ruth. Six has a blog going right now that she is diligently updating after each treatment. The url is: sixgoofykids.blogspot.com
I will be flying over to join them next Tuesday, and my first appointment is on Thursday the 23rd. I will try to update my existing blog when I get the chance as well:
pathogensoup.blogspot.com
I think my experience will be of interest especially to those whom consider themselves severely ill. I feel I'm a tier below six and steel, as I can't even imagine taking a long walk around town and eating an authentic german meal (fried pork, potatoes etc) like they have done. My mom is joining me to drive me around and cook for me.
Before this, I'd been on antibiotics for about 4 months, improved around 10% from 40% functionality. Now that I've been off them in preparation for the bionic, I am feeling much like I did before antibiotics (and appreciating just how much of a difference antibiotics made)
My worst symptoms are cognitive dysfunction and fatigue.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
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Member # 6628
posted
I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
I have a great interest, but can't just leave my teaching job. I also want to wait a few months after these people get back to see if the treatment holds. Maybe late spring or early summer if it works for others. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8879 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
......thinking about it here too. Just not sure I am capable of making the trip.
Sending hope to all who are there, and to m0joey!! Joey I just sent ya an email. Didn't even know you were thinking about going!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Maybe if this works, we can be the next group to go!!! (crossing fingers) as I am also a skeptic, but trying to keep an open mind!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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I want to go this summer but it would be for me and my two girls and it would be expensive. I'd have no problem putting it on a credit card.
Normally, I charge only what I pay off each month and am careful with debt but this is important. If it works, I don't mind going in to hawk to Chase for it.
Anyone know?
Gigi?
-------------------- Diagnosed with :yme and mycoplasma pneumonia Aug 08. Treating with Doxy and Ceftin ever since. 15 sessions in hyperbaric o2 chamber Posts: 183 | From all around | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
How much does one of these devices cost? It's silly to have people spending $5000-6000 a pop to go to Germany for treatment. We could probably just buy one ourselves for not a whole lot more.
Posts: 99 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Aug 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Even if it may be best to buy a machine for continued care, I'd sure want the expert to work with me for the first few weeks.
I've tried on my own to get well for decades and barely have managed. True, I've not had this machine, but learning from an experienced doctor would be so great if that is possible.
There is a great deal of value in having someone who has seen hundreds or thousands of others with TBD - someone who has an open mind about how to prioritize and the proper order of techniques. Someone who has seen what works and what does not.
Still, of course, we all have our budgets.
I know we all dream of the best and safest treatment and we then get to figure out how to do the best we can. Rather than put all one's eggs in a 3-week time capsule, it's good to consider all aspects, especially looking ahead to practical matters.
If you search "Bionic 880" there are several threads and the cost of the machine is there somewhere.
It would be great to get some local doctors interested - for those who will be able to travel to Germany, perhaps a MD or ND might be interested in going along. As education, it would be deductible.
As GiGi has stated many times, ANYONE can learn this. It would be the first phase of treatment, though, where local doctors could then be most helpful. And, if they had the machines, could offer treatments for reasonable fees.
posted
I just wanted to chime in that I am very interested and have been following the threads. I would like to go after it's not quite so cold there--perhaps when the winter starts to thaw into spring, but before 'tourist' season drives up prices.
I, too, hate flying...but you know what they say, it's safer than driving! It must be the feeling a lack of control thing
About expenses--from talking to Gigi, you can charge Dr. W's fees but not the Bionic 880. Restaurants and gas stations take credit cards, but the Kleins and most grochery stores do not.
I would be interested in meeting up with some fellow lymenetters as well. Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
jessesapp--if you take a look at six's blog, you'll see this treatment is far from all gain and no pain. Six said she felt "horrible" after the first treatment, although much better a few days later. There is clearly a herx-like reaction afterwards. She also said Dr. W looks at the whole body before deciding what spots to project the light on. I really wouldn't encourage any patient whom hasn't been trained by Dr. W and his staff to shine this machine on a whim, and I wouldn't wanna be the guinea pig of an untrained doc either. Unlike antibiotics which have a pretty deep track record, we really know nothing of the long-term safety of this. Dr. W probably does though.
Speaking of which, let's compare this to antibiotics. After all, there's plenty of information about brands, dosages, and timing in a msg board such as this, but we still look to guidance from our LLMDs because they've seen hundreds, sometimes thousands, of patients and their experience allows them to see things that we're not even looking for.
I know there is a chiro in California that has the Bionic now, so if I didn't think going to Germany would be worthwhile, I would just take a flight up to norcal to get a nice shine on. We all hope that in time, U.S. practitioners will get training at the source so that we don't need to fly overseas to optimize results while protecting our bodies in the process, but that'll take a few more years that some patients might not have the patience for.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I am seriously considering going over in February. My main issue however is chronic and debilitating fatigue and headaches. I don't have any of the other issues everyone else discusses, so I'm not sure if it will work for me or not. After some more research, if I still feel comfortable that it can help, I may go.
Posts: 215 | From Phoenix, AZ | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I wanted to make a clarification about the previous post: I heard from my doc that Dr. H knows of a chiro using the bionic in norcal. I do not know the specifics nor did I ask because I was planning on going to Germany. If anyone is seeing Dr. H soon, please ask him for this information. I will not see him until I get back from Germany, but if I don't hear anything through the grapevine by then, I will ask personally.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
quote:Originally posted by Annxyz: A Humane Idea : How about some folks being trained to use the machine ? Then GROUPS could join together and invest in a machine and help save lives of desperate sick people who are falling through the cracks .
I do not have a lot of money , but ten people contributing $1,000 could make the idea work. OR maybe we could negotiate a wholesale price if there is enough interest .
I thought there were already a few groups doing this? What happened to them?
Posts: 268 | From new york city | Registered: May 2008
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
I'm interested in going.
Two things--in Germany, they tend to shut down over the Christmas holidays, PLUS Dr. W is MOVING, according to GiGi. So, be sure to book your appointment in advance before making any travel plans!!
Second, I got a brochure from the company that GiGi recommended, and their representative emailed me that the Bionic 880 costs $5600 if it's for export to the US. If you're going to keep it in Germany, you have to pay the German taxes. This could change, depending on exchange rates.
I'm interested in going. I plan to pay attention to what happens with the folks over there now after they come back. If I were to go, it would be in March or April of next year.
Since Dr. W does other things, like infusions, chiropractic, etc., it seems that a large part of the success of the treatment is from his expertise. At this point, that counts a lot for me.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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heiwalove
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posted
i'm interested in going as well, depending on six's and other's reports; possibly next summer.
what i don't yet understand is how folks maintain their progress/continue the bionic treatment once they return to the states. i'm assuming you'd have to purchase a machine (no way can i afford that on top of a trip to germany for treatment!) and a biotensor to do this? what about the mineral IVs and dr. w's detox protocols?
posted
Ann I think the idea to buy one together to use would be great!! I wonder if we can look having people find a good location in regions around the country and pitch in for the cost. What would be even better is if we could help someone go to Germany so they have more experience and bring it back. I am sure some would feel like they were missing out by not going and wanting to invest money themselves to go, but what a way to bless someone else by helping with their expenses. Some of us with young children cannot go. I couldn't afford it anyway but, I would be willing to help someone else go. Especially, if it turns out to be effective long term. I am fairly new here so I don't know about who has gone. Has anyone gone and had good long term results yet.
Posts: 43 | From md | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I'm waiting to hear how everyone that is there now feels after all the treatments are done.
Posts: 123 | From Georgia | Registered: Jul 2008
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NanaDubo
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posted
After having been to Germany for treatment I feel Dr. W's expertise is invaluable. The infusions you receive after treatments are very important to help deal with toxins being released and keeping magnesium levels up etc.
The nosodes you get while there are specifically for you and my understanding is that you do not use them on someone else. In other words if you plan on letting others use your machine, they would have to have their own nosodes.
I wouldn't feel comfortable myself without having had him test me for what I needed.
Just thought I would put my two cents in.
The cost of the machine is 5,800 Euro if you bring it back with you. The dollar is stronger now and ends up being around $7,770. If you have it shipped here it is substantially more.
There have been mixed reports of success having a machine shipped here from Germany. The gentleman at the company said you might be lucky and it would get through and it might not.
I believe Gigi's got hung up for unknown reasons but they have been successfully shipped to Canada and maybe other places. Worth a try.
This is a powerful and effective device and if you do not have a practitioner who knows how to use it, my opinion is to be treated by Dr. W and then if you want a machine, you will have a better grasp of what is involved.
Not rocket science but not a toy either. Again, just my opinion.
Dr. W does take MC and Visa. He does speak fairly good English but long conversations with complicated questions can be difficult. I do not speak one word of German (other than what I picked up there) and I got along okay.
Hope that is helpful.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymie_in_md
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KGarrett, I've been in the process of putting a group together in Maryland. I have some folks interested, I have identified practioners. Here's out it works, we have a group appointment to be energetically tested to how we would benefit from our own machine. We purchase the machine as a group and we work our treatment as a group. We'll say the cost is 100 dollars a person for each appointment and we buy the machine to use ourselves. Cost under 2k i'm guessing for the machine and the appointments and 200 dollars for the nosodes.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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SForsgren
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posted
I am leaving soon as well and am looking forward to the trip. I know five personal friends now that have gone - all with very positive results.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
if the bionic makers don't take credit cards, how can you pay for it?
how about the kleins?
thanks
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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clairenotes
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posted
I am seriously considering taking my daughter to see Dr. W as I find it much more difficult to get her well.
We are thinking about February or March if the reports continue to come back favorably. It would be great to go with others, and share in the expenses.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
nyjohn--I'm not the best one to answer this since I haven't gone yet, but I can tell you that Gigi paid for her bionic with a bank transfer. She said it was really easy. I'm not sure about the Kleins. My guess would be bring travelers checks and exchange money over there?
Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I am considering going as well. I will most likely need to travel with my husband or a family member as I need help getting around and am also on a very restrictive diet (but cannot cook for myself).
I would also consider buying a machine IF I could find a practitioner close by who would help me with treatment. Does Dr. W. share his protocol with other MDs or NDs?
maybe you can post this question on six's blog and see if she'll gets the chance to ask him?
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymie_in_md
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posted
I just want to offer the following for consideration. I'm not sure any good ND/MD knowledgeable about energy medicine need learn anything from Dr. W. on how to do his protocol. He is doing nothing more then what these professional are already currently doing. The big differences between what he is doing is the machine the nosodes and the use of a tensor IMO.
GiGi already mentioned her grand daughter could operate the machine with the nosodes.
So what does the ND need to be aware of, metals in the body, biotoxins, and drainage.
If you think of it, buy your own machine and set up an appointment with Dr. K. and bring it with you and apply the treatment with your own machine. Dr. K. doesn't need to be trained in using energy medicine.
Maybe GiGi can confirm my thinking! Just thinking out box!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I just wanted to be clear about the dif between live vials of borrelia and nosodes: nosodes carry the energetic frequency of borrelia but not necessarily the live material itself although it CAN in small amounts, while the live vials are just that--all live?
anyone clear on this?
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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clairenotes
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posted
Responding to Bob in Maryland...
Yes, but are there not factors of time, and perhaps intensity, not to mention having some knowledge or ability to assess how much each person can take in treatment? Or where to start?
Also, detoxing is another equally important consideration.
Perhaps I am making this more complicated, but it would surprise me that anyone could just step in without some guidance and begin using the Bionic 880.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Claire,
It might depend on the level of expertise of the practioner. No question Dr. W. is very experienced!
We are now hearing from sooo many who have endured the lyme battles and hopefully will soon come to the end of the lyme road.
Hopefully we can have a healthy debate on practioners using the bionic here. And it is hard to argue some of your points. There are many things to consider for getting a bionic hear in the hands of folks. And there is the comfort with Dr. W.'s success as seen by those who have or who are getting treatment.
If one of the three in Germany, either Paul, Six, or Ruth could get Dr. W.'s opinion. It might help assess the arguement.
I suspect Dr. W. is going to be over run with folks wanting treatment and your ability to schedule from weeks to months to years might occur. Practioners here may go from nice to necessity!
Thanks Claire for responding to my point, with a counter point, I really don't have the complete answer.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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I hear that Dr. K is interested in the machine and heard about it from GiGi. It seems that she has mentioned that on another post.
I'm doing fine and speak no German.
Dr. W speaks at medical conventions here in Germany, so apparently he shares his protocol.
There are nosodes used and everyone has to have their own. So I had to buy 8 so that when I get home I can treat my whole family if they all need it. I don't want to buy 4 or 5 and find out they all test positive for it.
You cannot buy the live bacteria vial in Germany, only the nosodes. Dr. W provides the bacterial vial and you cannot take it from his office. So unless you can get a live vial, the treatment here will be faster than at home. He said it would work with nosodes only, but not as fast.
As Joey said, it's not no pain. The treatment can be hard. Steel and Willow had flares after the second treatment, I did not. I just feel better.
Mrs. Klein said that two years ago someone stayed here and Mrs. Klein had never heard of Lyme before. That lady was getting treatment from Dr. W and now she comes back once per year for a checkup. Both years she has still been Lyme free.
The objective of this treatment is to get Lyme free so the idea is that you would not need more treatment. For those who want a 4 week checkup like Dr. W does, if you know someone with the Bionic, perhaps you could borrow theirs for that one treatment.
It is hard to get my own questions asked by Dr. W because he is very busy and when I go in for treatment the nurse takes care of me, so please, no questions for me to ask Dr. W. I can answer based on my experience, but I'm not taking questions to him.
I had a question on my blog about bartonella. He does not test for coinfections, but they are supposed to clear with the Lyme. My babesia is flaring. I have had night sweats and air hunger. The night sweats are not normal for me, haven't had them in months, so I know it's the photons causing this flare.
The Kleins only take cash ... Nanadubo said that debit cards are easier than traveler's checks ... I don't know as I haven't run out of cash yet.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Ocean
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posted
Thanks for the update Six! Glad it's going well after only 2 treatments. It's so encouraging for those of us interested in the Bionic and Dr. W.
Obviously, I would rather do the treatment here if possible. I have an alternative MD that I'm sure would be on board and my uncle is a chiropractor who would be willing to help out, it's just that no one here knows exactly how to do the treatments/supplemental therapy.
I too wish a US doc would go over, although then, who knows, if it's not 'FDA' approved, the medical association may go after him/her.
quote:Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE: I am considering it. I'm very skeptical however. I trust the judgment of a number of people who are going over there before me, so we'll see what happens.
One of my primary concerns is how people feel 6 months, 12 months, 24 months from now.
I feel exactly the same way. Extremely skeptical, and I also have concerns over conflicts of interest. However, if the folks who went do well (they seem to be non-biased as far as I can tell), then I'd consider it - if I had a windfall, because I certainly cannot afford it now.
Also I totally agree on the "how will they be feeling in the future" statement. At least 6 months later, will they all still maintain it was a 100% cure? Important things to think about before taking the plunge.
posted
I am very skeptical about many things yet for some reason not this treatment. I think everyone has to follow their own intuition about different treatments and listen to others they respect and trust and then decide for themselves.
I actually can not wait to go to Germany. I just have a very good positive feeling about this MD and treatment.
I luckily have been all over the world to many different countries by myself and have almost no fear of flying so maybe that helps in feeling good about hoping to get to go to Germany.
Six thank you for all your updates and may you continue to have a wonder trip. It sounds very exciting!!!!!
NanaDubo
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Member # 14794
posted
Angelica - I love your attitude I believe that will help you heal more quickly. Dr. W talks about this.
Heads up on travelers checks. I had difficulty finding a bank that would even cash them for Euros. I was quite surprised. I did finally find one but it was not all that convenient.
If I were to do it again, I would use just debit cards to get cash. Be sure to let your bank know you will be out of the country so they don't start refusing it.
Not sure what the conflicts of interest are Nobody. I'm just a woman who had an active life and got very sick. I am no longer and hope everyone can have the same experience.
Healthy skepticism is understandable and everyone must make there own choice. For me it was simple, just go. Simple, uncomplicated things always work best for me.
It is correct that you need to transfer funds for a bionic880 and for a biotensor. Maybe someday they will take credit cards but they do not right now. Both companies can supply you with their bank information.
The Kleins only take cash as do restaurants and almost every shop I went in to. Gas stations take credit cards as do car rental companies.
All the best to those of you considering going. I am in the process of helping my acupuncturist get her son there. I would love to go back again but when I do, it will be for a holiday!
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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btw, you should be able to trade in cashier's checks for euros at the airport when you arrive, but there might be a bit of a larger fee than at a local bank. when i was in munich there were banks everywhere that cashed in the checks for euros. but that was munich, over a million in population, not dobel.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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clairenotes
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posted
Bob -- I just read six's blog for Thursday at her other site, and from what she describes about the procedure itself, it appears to be fairly straightforward.
So you could very well be right. I am too used to things not being simple in LD. More time and reports will tell.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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NanaDubo
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posted
NYJohn - Pforzheim is a small city with many big banks. Only one would cash travelers checks and they limited the amount you could exchange each day.
The bank in the little town of Dobel was actually much more helpful. Neither is Munich though.
When and if you want to purchase the bionic880, they will supply you with their bank information. You go to your bank and transfer funds from your account to theirs.
I too am watching and waiting to hear Six and Steel's experiences and hope they're positive. I am only 7 months into tx; but, improvement is minimal. I basically have EVERY darn co-infection so I know it is a slow process; but, I'm open to this too if I feel confident in the reports.
By the way...I did a search to find Six's blog and only found a myspace link where I have to be her friend...is there another site? How do I access it? I would really like to read how it's going for her/them. Thanks!
TS
Posts: 566 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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i will now be able to plan ahead just taht much better!
john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Claire,
You have a good idea of using energy medicine yourself. If metals, thyroid, or dental aren't involved. You might just go ahead and buy the machine. Or fly to germany have one assessment appointment with the Dr. W. pickup a bionic and nosodes and fly back. Probably for about 12k. The flight with your daughter and the appointment is probably the savings to pick up a unit directly in Germany. There are some creative ways to look at it. You just have to see whats best in your situation.
Besides maybe you can convince someone not too far from you to try it. She hasn't posted in awhile, you know our mutual friend.
Say hello to her if you talk 2 her.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
Bob -- unfortunately we believe that metals are a strong factor in my daughter's case (though not from dental sources). In fact, my goal was to try to get the lyme infection down as much as possible so that perhaps most of the work could be focused on the metals if we do go there.
But, as you alluded to earlier, by the time more information is in and mulled over, etc., we might be on a year long waiting list! Not sure what the best answer is yet. It would be nice if a practitioner here could get involved, but as someone mentioned earlier, there may be problems due to not having FDA approval on the device.
Thank you though... what you say makes a lot of sense, and I always appreciate ideas.
That friend in common, brilliant though she is, turns down my suggestions so much that I am not sure I am up to more rejection! But I will say hello to her for you if she checks in.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The Woitzel protocol, as it stands at this time, can be seen in the brochure I talked about a few days ago. I had copied portions of the brochure here. The total protocol is contained in that brochure.
I have a problem scanning it. But if you need to get it, write the manufacturer of the Bionic 880. Some of you have already written and received it.
There is nothing secret about the protocol, nor is the instrument difficult to handle. You can learn it in minutes.
If you want to get the instrument for later use at home, you will need to have a way of energetic testing. I do it with the Biotensor. And of course you need to know what you want to treat and what you need to treat, if anything. I also do this with Biotensor testing. It takes some learning. If you have someone for ART or other energetic testing, it's great also. It is good to know about heavy metals and bad teeth, and root canals, and other environmental toxins. The Bionic880 is a great start to remove a big obstacle and the rest is easier.
If you have serious dental problems, or heavy metals and amalgams, root canals, bad wisdom teeth, etc., it cannot be fixed, in my opinion, with the Bionic Lyme treatment. The repairs should probably be made before the Bionic880 Lyme treatment, because logic tells me that the source of the toxin has to be shut off before the rest can be fixed. If the mercury keeps coming from the existing teeth or a bad root canal, it doesn't make sense to do the Bionic treatment. The treatment and the Bionic will be very helpful to get the heavy metals and other toxins out of the cells and detoxing them is easier after the Lyme Treatment. In other words, from my experience and per Dr. K., the mercury will escape from the amalgam and move into the brain and body as long as the fillings remain in the mouth. It doesn't matter much how old the fillings are.
Have I confused things??? If the gas stove has a leak, the first things one should do is to shut the stove off, First rule in toxicology.
I do have the advantage of having had an A-l teacher in Dr. K. when it comes to a chronic disease and I learned a lot from A.R. and more from Dr. W. I still study and search and learn more every day.
The Bionic880 Lyme treatment addresses the Lyme only, mainly. The photons help get the metals out of the cells, but from there it takes some more support to get them into the toilet, or out by other means. Then some knowledge is important for organ support, etc.
As we know, some structural deficits might have to be addressed. Some lifestyles and unresolved emotional conflicts may also need attention. And a leaky gut takes time to heal.
I am glad that there is a Bionic880. I wish I had known about it a few years ago -
[ 17. October 2008, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Your knowledge level on de-toxing and other issues seems incredible for the average patient.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
quote:I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Seekhelp, I live right here in the USA and have lived here for more than 55 years. But my husband and I went to see Dr. W. for treatment, mainly for my husband. And I have a habit of paying very close attention to what is done to us by doctors.
The most knowledge I gained from Dr. K. who is a great doctor and who actually helped me to get well, long before the Bionic880 came along. I again learned from the first day I visited his office. I quizzed and asked until he threw in the towel and gave me a huge box full of videos of all of his seminars over many years. That's how I spent my time - it caught my interest and got me away from moaning about my fate and feeling sorry for myself. I got busy and learned. I am totally well and have been for msny years. I highly recommend this approach.
I know that this topic has bounced around this site, but get real. I know that when you or a loved one is sick you will do anything to get better.
Desperation they call it.
Things that make this no go or scary.
Cash only. Not available in the US.. guess why? Expensive for what it really is in parts. Secret treatment/only one in the world. Discovered by accident. Rave reviews, but no data. So tricky that only one person is an expert. No science or documentation. Placebo effect. No real Company/business behind it. Valid Patents on technique or device? Desperate target market.
Sorry, I just can't see in my lifetime that this is THE SECRET CURE FOR Lyme Disease. Maybe it cures baldness and ED too?
There is also a long list of failed similar devices, herbs, dances, tonics, crystals, and other modalities in the history archives of Lyme and other diseases that are just predatory.
Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
-------------------- Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM + Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest
posted
Actually, the treatment is not expensive hcconn. Dr W is teaching other doctors in Germany to do the treatments. He speaks at medical conventions all over Germany ... a Google search will confirm this statement.
What is expensive is flying over here, staying in a foreign country for three weeks, and buying the machine. Dr. W is much less expensive than traditional LLMD treatment.
Bob, your price is high ... my plane ticket was about $800 and the machine is $7700 with today's exchange rate.
I think you could do the treatment for less than $5000 if you don't buy the machine. The Klein's place is also inexpensive, especially if you share a larger apt with another person.
The reason it's not in the US ... it's new ... and the FDA.
Everyone has a right to be skeptical .... I was, but I was willing to take the gamble. I am glad I did ... it's only a week and I'm doing better already. I'm not wearing a lead suit anymore, if that makes sense ... I feel lighter.
Oh, yeah, the Germans have used infrared light for YEARS to cure baldness! I don't know about ER though ......
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by hcconn22: Extremely skeptical...
Things that make this no go or scary. Cash only. Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
hcconn22,
I'm also sceptical and you are right in many points. But as a German I want to comment on your "cash only" concern.
In Germany, we have a completely different payment culture than you do in the US. Still most smaller transactions are done in cash. The Kleins don't take credit cards and this is completely normal here. I've stayed in lots of self-catering houses in Europe and you always have to pay either cash or by advance bank transfer.
As it was pointed out: Dr. W takes MC and Visa. For me, as a German, THIS fact is rather odd because doctors usually don't take credit cards. Normally, they send you a bill and you pay by bank transfer.
Credit cards are taken in bigger shops and in businesses but in Germany, a doctor is not considered as someone who should do business.
Call us naive but we still think that doctors are here to help people and not to make lots of money. Of course, we don't want them to starve (and they don't) but doctors doing lots of advertising and making money are not the good German style and we don't trust them.
What I want to say: asking for cash is completely normal in Germany.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14794
posted
hcconn22 -
"Cash only". - (This has been explained. Different culture - most people there don't walk around with a wallet full of credit cards and using them for everything is not the norm.)
"Not available in the US.. guess why?" - (My guess is there is too much money to be lost by big pharmaceutical companies but it will be here eventually).
"Expensive for what it really is in parts". - (Not compared to many other treatment modalities).
"Secret treatment/only one in the world." - (there are hundreds of doctors in Europe using this machine for many things. It is no secret over there and Dr.W is by no means the only one in the world).
"Discovered by accident". (could be - how about penicillin?)
"Rave reviews, but no data". - (I imagine there is plenty of data on light therapy readily available. Seems as though the experiments NASA is doing are kept more secret than work done by doctors in Europe and by professor Popp. Most any doctor over there using this will talk with you).
"So tricky that only one person is an expert". - (Not tricky at all and Dr. W just happens to be the one who came up with a treatment for lyme. It has been used for many, many other ailments in Europe).
"No science or documentation". -(Cells healing is certainly science. Perhaps some of the folks here with scientific minds will chime in).
"Placebo effect". - (Sense of well being yes, placebo effect? My lyme is gone).
"No real Company/business behind i"t. - (there is a real company and they do presentations and demonstrations. They are in Germany so why would they cater to this country?)
"Valid Patents on technique or device?" - (The bionic880 is a medically certified device in Europe- I have the certificate).
"Desperate target market". - ( I would think so. I was desperate to get well and there are many doctors desperate to help people).
End of quotes.
Dr. W is by no stretch of the imagination a wealthy doctor. His office is plain, no fancy furnishings, no fancy cars. My observation is that he is a brilliant man who loves his family, sincerely wants to help people and does everything he can to keep things affordable.
My appointments and treatments with him cost far, far less than any LLMD I have seen.
Your signature says you are tired of being tired. I was tired of being raked over the coals and pumping my body full of pills. That road may cure some but it did not cure me.
I no longer wake up every morning and say "oh God, I've got lyme disease."
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
For those who will go to Dr. W in Pforzheim, I lived in Pforzheim for 8 months. seeing another doctor who is an excellent LLMD. (but he does not collaborate with Dr. W and I have no opinions on his treatment)
Just wanted to say that I might have some good accomodation ideas if you have to live in Pforzheim.
I stayed in an apartement hotel in Rohrstrasse 13 in Pforzheim, they are offering fully furnished small flats with equipped kitchens in the city centre of Pforzheim, within walking distance from the rail way and the clinics.
Price is around 700 Euro/month. So musch cheaper than to live in a hotel! And nicer! (They have TV with CNN and BBC for those who do not speak german)
If someone wants tel no. you can PM.
Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymeparfait
Unregistered
posted
Gigi, and all,
When I go to get my metal dental work (fillings and crowns) replaced, what should they be replaced with? What kind of dental work is safe? I dont want to just trust my regular dentist with choosing material for my mouth that may be hazerdous.
I have mulitple crowns and fillings since childhood. And my 17 year old daughter also has soft teeth and gets many cavities, like me, and she also is ill with lyme and co. Do teeth problems also come with cronic lyme?
I appreciate all your wonderful research and info. I am planning on going to Dr. W. in the spring with my daughther.Please pm me with any pertinent info. in ways to prepare.
the dentist i went to in the hudson valley is very experienced in removing and replacing fillings and is top notch (and about the same price as others!).
pm me if you would like his name
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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About Dr. W taking credit cards .... when he showed us his credit card machine, he said he got it for the Americans because he knew that's how we did business and he wanted to make it easier for us.
It is true, we are using cash for about everything here.
Be sure if you stay somewhere other than the Kleins that you don't have wireless.
I highly recommend the Kleins. They are very nice people. I am writing you from an internet connection they put in at Nanadubo's suggestion to make it easier for Americans. The place is full of people from the US (not all from LN).
I would also recommend staying in Dobel because the air is cleaner. You drive 20 min. up the mountains and it's SO worth it! Small town, you can walk places .... in fact, there are walking trails ALL OVER.
I couldn't be happier with the trip and my decision to come. Time is going fast and I'm even having fun.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Goofy, can Steelbone and the other post on your blog as guests? Or post something and you upload it? Writing as it happens is really useful, there are details one always forgets. THANKS
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
O2babe, not a chance. LOL, he's a guy who doesn't like to type! He'll give brief updates here .... I'll mention a little on mine if they differ from me .... we won't leave anything out.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
hey goofy do you know if you are going back to see your llmd when you return? i live nearby him (he is also my llmd) and it'd be great to hear some feedback in person if you happen to be going to see him, i'd drive over there to chat with you if you have the time...i did run my interest in dr w by j.f. and he said he couldn't pass judgement on the approach because he didn't know anything about it..so at least he didn't roll his eyes about it! i have my appt scheduled for dr w...but you guys will be back by then best wishes!
john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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My ND had me take the Clifford materials reactivity blood test which tests for many different types of materials dentists use (I had no idea there were so many).
The blood work showed what compounds I was reactive to and what compounds were negative for me.
Then my ND checked me at the cellular level to see if the blood work was correct.
My dentist replaced 3 of my crowns this past year (I maxed out my dental insurance for the year).
It's nice to know the metals and other composite that were bothering me are now gone.
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