Topic: Who is thinking about going to Germany for Bionic 880?
NanaDubo
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Member # 14794
posted
NYJohn - Pforzheim is a small city with many big banks. Only one would cash travelers checks and they limited the amount you could exchange each day.
The bank in the little town of Dobel was actually much more helpful. Neither is Munich though.
When and if you want to purchase the bionic880, they will supply you with their bank information. You go to your bank and transfer funds from your account to theirs.
I too am watching and waiting to hear Six and Steel's experiences and hope they're positive. I am only 7 months into tx; but, improvement is minimal. I basically have EVERY darn co-infection so I know it is a slow process; but, I'm open to this too if I feel confident in the reports.
By the way...I did a search to find Six's blog and only found a myspace link where I have to be her friend...is there another site? How do I access it? I would really like to read how it's going for her/them. Thanks!
TS
Posts: 566 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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i will now be able to plan ahead just taht much better!
john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Claire,
You have a good idea of using energy medicine yourself. If metals, thyroid, or dental aren't involved. You might just go ahead and buy the machine. Or fly to germany have one assessment appointment with the Dr. W. pickup a bionic and nosodes and fly back. Probably for about 12k. The flight with your daughter and the appointment is probably the savings to pick up a unit directly in Germany. There are some creative ways to look at it. You just have to see whats best in your situation.
Besides maybe you can convince someone not too far from you to try it. She hasn't posted in awhile, you know our mutual friend.
Say hello to her if you talk 2 her.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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clairenotes
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Bob -- unfortunately we believe that metals are a strong factor in my daughter's case (though not from dental sources). In fact, my goal was to try to get the lyme infection down as much as possible so that perhaps most of the work could be focused on the metals if we do go there.
But, as you alluded to earlier, by the time more information is in and mulled over, etc., we might be on a year long waiting list! Not sure what the best answer is yet. It would be nice if a practitioner here could get involved, but as someone mentioned earlier, there may be problems due to not having FDA approval on the device.
Thank you though... what you say makes a lot of sense, and I always appreciate ideas.
That friend in common, brilliant though she is, turns down my suggestions so much that I am not sure I am up to more rejection! But I will say hello to her for you if she checks in.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
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The Woitzel protocol, as it stands at this time, can be seen in the brochure I talked about a few days ago. I had copied portions of the brochure here. The total protocol is contained in that brochure.
I have a problem scanning it. But if you need to get it, write the manufacturer of the Bionic 880. Some of you have already written and received it.
There is nothing secret about the protocol, nor is the instrument difficult to handle. You can learn it in minutes.
If you want to get the instrument for later use at home, you will need to have a way of energetic testing. I do it with the Biotensor. And of course you need to know what you want to treat and what you need to treat, if anything. I also do this with Biotensor testing. It takes some learning. If you have someone for ART or other energetic testing, it's great also. It is good to know about heavy metals and bad teeth, and root canals, and other environmental toxins. The Bionic880 is a great start to remove a big obstacle and the rest is easier.
If you have serious dental problems, or heavy metals and amalgams, root canals, bad wisdom teeth, etc., it cannot be fixed, in my opinion, with the Bionic Lyme treatment. The repairs should probably be made before the Bionic880 Lyme treatment, because logic tells me that the source of the toxin has to be shut off before the rest can be fixed. If the mercury keeps coming from the existing teeth or a bad root canal, it doesn't make sense to do the Bionic treatment. The treatment and the Bionic will be very helpful to get the heavy metals and other toxins out of the cells and detoxing them is easier after the Lyme Treatment. In other words, from my experience and per Dr. K., the mercury will escape from the amalgam and move into the brain and body as long as the fillings remain in the mouth. It doesn't matter much how old the fillings are.
Have I confused things??? If the gas stove has a leak, the first things one should do is to shut the stove off, First rule in toxicology.
I do have the advantage of having had an A-l teacher in Dr. K. when it comes to a chronic disease and I learned a lot from A.R. and more from Dr. W. I still study and search and learn more every day.
The Bionic880 Lyme treatment addresses the Lyme only, mainly. The photons help get the metals out of the cells, but from there it takes some more support to get them into the toilet, or out by other means. Then some knowledge is important for organ support, etc.
As we know, some structural deficits might have to be addressed. Some lifestyles and unresolved emotional conflicts may also need attention. And a leaky gut takes time to heal.
I am glad that there is a Bionic880. I wish I had known about it a few years ago -
[ 17. October 2008, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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seekhelp
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I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Your knowledge level on de-toxing and other issues seems incredible for the average patient.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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GiGi
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quote:I assume specific posters on this thread reside in Germany. GiGi are you one of them? Do you have affiliation with this doctor who runs this protocol or only a patient?
Seekhelp, I live right here in the USA and have lived here for more than 55 years. But my husband and I went to see Dr. W. for treatment, mainly for my husband. And I have a habit of paying very close attention to what is done to us by doctors.
The most knowledge I gained from Dr. K. who is a great doctor and who actually helped me to get well, long before the Bionic880 came along. I again learned from the first day I visited his office. I quizzed and asked until he threw in the towel and gave me a huge box full of videos of all of his seminars over many years. That's how I spent my time - it caught my interest and got me away from moaning about my fate and feeling sorry for myself. I got busy and learned. I am totally well and have been for msny years. I highly recommend this approach.
I know that this topic has bounced around this site, but get real. I know that when you or a loved one is sick you will do anything to get better.
Desperation they call it.
Things that make this no go or scary.
Cash only. Not available in the US.. guess why? Expensive for what it really is in parts. Secret treatment/only one in the world. Discovered by accident. Rave reviews, but no data. So tricky that only one person is an expert. No science or documentation. Placebo effect. No real Company/business behind it. Valid Patents on technique or device? Desperate target market.
Sorry, I just can't see in my lifetime that this is THE SECRET CURE FOR Lyme Disease. Maybe it cures baldness and ED too?
There is also a long list of failed similar devices, herbs, dances, tonics, crystals, and other modalities in the history archives of Lyme and other diseases that are just predatory.
Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
-------------------- Positive 10 bands WB IGG & IGM + Babesia + Bartonolla and NOW RMSF 3/5/09 all at Quest
The harder you work the luckier you get! Posts: 965 | From Nebraska Cornhuskers fan in Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2007
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Angelica
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What a great report! I am so happy for you.
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sixgoofykids
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Actually, the treatment is not expensive hcconn. Dr W is teaching other doctors in Germany to do the treatments. He speaks at medical conventions all over Germany ... a Google search will confirm this statement.
What is expensive is flying over here, staying in a foreign country for three weeks, and buying the machine. Dr. W is much less expensive than traditional LLMD treatment.
Bob, your price is high ... my plane ticket was about $800 and the machine is $7700 with today's exchange rate.
I think you could do the treatment for less than $5000 if you don't buy the machine. The Klein's place is also inexpensive, especially if you share a larger apt with another person.
The reason it's not in the US ... it's new ... and the FDA.
Everyone has a right to be skeptical .... I was, but I was willing to take the gamble. I am glad I did ... it's only a week and I'm doing better already. I'm not wearing a lead suit anymore, if that makes sense ... I feel lighter.
Oh, yeah, the Germans have used infrared light for YEARS to cure baldness! I don't know about ER though ......
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by hcconn22: Extremely skeptical...
Things that make this no go or scary. Cash only. Sorry- to all those believers. I'm just not buying it and have to speak up.
hcconn22,
I'm also sceptical and you are right in many points. But as a German I want to comment on your "cash only" concern.
In Germany, we have a completely different payment culture than you do in the US. Still most smaller transactions are done in cash. The Kleins don't take credit cards and this is completely normal here. I've stayed in lots of self-catering houses in Europe and you always have to pay either cash or by advance bank transfer.
As it was pointed out: Dr. W takes MC and Visa. For me, as a German, THIS fact is rather odd because doctors usually don't take credit cards. Normally, they send you a bill and you pay by bank transfer.
Credit cards are taken in bigger shops and in businesses but in Germany, a doctor is not considered as someone who should do business.
Call us naive but we still think that doctors are here to help people and not to make lots of money. Of course, we don't want them to starve (and they don't) but doctors doing lots of advertising and making money are not the good German style and we don't trust them.
What I want to say: asking for cash is completely normal in Germany.
Gabrielle
Posts: 767 | From Germany | Registered: Feb 2004
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NanaDubo
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hcconn22 -
"Cash only". - (This has been explained. Different culture - most people there don't walk around with a wallet full of credit cards and using them for everything is not the norm.)
"Not available in the US.. guess why?" - (My guess is there is too much money to be lost by big pharmaceutical companies but it will be here eventually).
"Expensive for what it really is in parts". - (Not compared to many other treatment modalities).
"Secret treatment/only one in the world." - (there are hundreds of doctors in Europe using this machine for many things. It is no secret over there and Dr.W is by no means the only one in the world).
"Discovered by accident". (could be - how about penicillin?)
"Rave reviews, but no data". - (I imagine there is plenty of data on light therapy readily available. Seems as though the experiments NASA is doing are kept more secret than work done by doctors in Europe and by professor Popp. Most any doctor over there using this will talk with you).
"So tricky that only one person is an expert". - (Not tricky at all and Dr. W just happens to be the one who came up with a treatment for lyme. It has been used for many, many other ailments in Europe).
"No science or documentation". -(Cells healing is certainly science. Perhaps some of the folks here with scientific minds will chime in).
"Placebo effect". - (Sense of well being yes, placebo effect? My lyme is gone).
"No real Company/business behind i"t. - (there is a real company and they do presentations and demonstrations. They are in Germany so why would they cater to this country?)
"Valid Patents on technique or device?" - (The bionic880 is a medically certified device in Europe- I have the certificate).
"Desperate target market". - ( I would think so. I was desperate to get well and there are many doctors desperate to help people).
End of quotes.
Dr. W is by no stretch of the imagination a wealthy doctor. His office is plain, no fancy furnishings, no fancy cars. My observation is that he is a brilliant man who loves his family, sincerely wants to help people and does everything he can to keep things affordable.
My appointments and treatments with him cost far, far less than any LLMD I have seen.
Your signature says you are tired of being tired. I was tired of being raked over the coals and pumping my body full of pills. That road may cure some but it did not cure me.
I no longer wake up every morning and say "oh God, I've got lyme disease."
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
For those who will go to Dr. W in Pforzheim, I lived in Pforzheim for 8 months. seeing another doctor who is an excellent LLMD. (but he does not collaborate with Dr. W and I have no opinions on his treatment)
Just wanted to say that I might have some good accomodation ideas if you have to live in Pforzheim.
I stayed in an apartement hotel in Rohrstrasse 13 in Pforzheim, they are offering fully furnished small flats with equipped kitchens in the city centre of Pforzheim, within walking distance from the rail way and the clinics.
Price is around 700 Euro/month. So musch cheaper than to live in a hotel! And nicer! (They have TV with CNN and BBC for those who do not speak german)
If someone wants tel no. you can PM.
Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymeparfait
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posted
Gigi, and all,
When I go to get my metal dental work (fillings and crowns) replaced, what should they be replaced with? What kind of dental work is safe? I dont want to just trust my regular dentist with choosing material for my mouth that may be hazerdous.
I have mulitple crowns and fillings since childhood. And my 17 year old daughter also has soft teeth and gets many cavities, like me, and she also is ill with lyme and co. Do teeth problems also come with cronic lyme?
I appreciate all your wonderful research and info. I am planning on going to Dr. W. in the spring with my daughther.Please pm me with any pertinent info. in ways to prepare.
the dentist i went to in the hudson valley is very experienced in removing and replacing fillings and is top notch (and about the same price as others!).
pm me if you would like his name
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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sixgoofykids
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I also had mine replaced with composites.
About Dr. W taking credit cards .... when he showed us his credit card machine, he said he got it for the Americans because he knew that's how we did business and he wanted to make it easier for us.
It is true, we are using cash for about everything here.
Be sure if you stay somewhere other than the Kleins that you don't have wireless.
I highly recommend the Kleins. They are very nice people. I am writing you from an internet connection they put in at Nanadubo's suggestion to make it easier for Americans. The place is full of people from the US (not all from LN).
I would also recommend staying in Dobel because the air is cleaner. You drive 20 min. up the mountains and it's SO worth it! Small town, you can walk places .... in fact, there are walking trails ALL OVER.
I couldn't be happier with the trip and my decision to come. Time is going fast and I'm even having fun.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Goofy, can Steelbone and the other post on your blog as guests? Or post something and you upload it? Writing as it happens is really useful, there are details one always forgets. THANKS
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sixgoofykids
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O2babe, not a chance. LOL, he's a guy who doesn't like to type! He'll give brief updates here .... I'll mention a little on mine if they differ from me .... we won't leave anything out.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
hey goofy do you know if you are going back to see your llmd when you return? i live nearby him (he is also my llmd) and it'd be great to hear some feedback in person if you happen to be going to see him, i'd drive over there to chat with you if you have the time...i did run my interest in dr w by j.f. and he said he couldn't pass judgement on the approach because he didn't know anything about it..so at least he didn't roll his eyes about it! i have my appt scheduled for dr w...but you guys will be back by then best wishes!
john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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My ND had me take the Clifford materials reactivity blood test which tests for many different types of materials dentists use (I had no idea there were so many).
The blood work showed what compounds I was reactive to and what compounds were negative for me.
Then my ND checked me at the cellular level to see if the blood work was correct.
My dentist replaced 3 of my crowns this past year (I maxed out my dental insurance for the year).
It's nice to know the metals and other composite that were bothering me are now gone.
sparkle7
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posted
I am happy that people are feeling better after seeing Dr. W.
I do have to agree with visionoftruth's statement.
GiGi and others have bashed me for experimenting with the LightWorks. I have gotten great relief by using this $300 device. I do not sell them nor do I make money from talking about them.
I feel there is a huge conflict of interest going on here. We don't really know if GiGi is getting paid by Dr. W or the company that makes the Bionic 880. She has never stated that she isn't...
Dr W has obviously seen a big increase in patients due to the posting on this message board... so much so, that he is now accepting credit cards - something not traditional to German doctors.
I'm very glad for people who can afford to travel & be treated by a doctor who they get results from. I also think that healing with infrared light does work.
My issue is that GiGi & some of the others have a conflict of interest here. Other people selling things that may be of benefit have been booted off of Lymenet.
These posts about the Bionic 880 & Dr. W seem to become a big advertisement for going to Germany for treatment. Perhaps the people who are benefiting should make a nice donation to Lymenet...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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i think that skepticism is good because science is based on it- that is theory.
but i also think that some of the people here are downright out to attack others and that is overboard.
some of you really need to do research on the medical system and various approaches used in europe, in particular germany, austria, and switz, and that can reveal a lot about your insane accusations about dr w, without even having experienced it for yourself.
i am thankful gigi, who, mind you, still posts here aside from being well, to help out those people who are still suffering. if i had connections in germany and spoke the language then i too would be lucky to be able to learn about medicines such as dr w's approaches.
i personally have been to germany for 2 surgeries when american, ego and money-based medicine failed to even properly diagnose me for a nasty injury (tore my 6pack off of the pubic bone, bilateral hernias, and torn abdominals) for 18 months! the care i recieved there was not only less expensive but was far beyond anything i have received here. that includes pre- and post-op care--it was all included. and it was less invasive than what i would have gotten here. they almost killed me here. i had two large tumors (fatty) removed in those surgeries in germany.
i also have had several european approaches used on me post-op (both just happen to be german in origin) and were fantastic. of course big pharma/insurance would not even recognize it. why? because 1) it works 2) is cheaper than drugs or surgery, and 3) it wasn't taught at hopkins med.
the ondamed is the predecessor to the bionic 880. rife is based on the same philosophies. so is pulse "laser," which a number of docs here in the us use.
my pcp is actually an llmd, and just yesterday he said i should go for it (germany) as he has used the ondamed with good success on a bunch of patients.
abx is what we know here. the alt therapies are not typically pushed because they are not widely taught, and are not covered by insurance plans. but abx can really damage you, if you don't know that then you don't pay attention.
i am thinking that it is worth a shot. 2000+ plus people is a lot. how many people currently post on lymenet?
to say gigi is involved in some in depth scheme is outrageous. she knows darn well that most lymies are with limited funds. that is not who scammers target. this is not the x-files.
i think that before you lash out you should wait and see what happens with others. then take it or leave it, your choice.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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all good points nyjohn. i have nothing against skepticism. I was in the same boat myself only a month ago. But if you're gonna come out and say Gigi and others have financial ties to these doctors, you could at least do a little more sleuthing.
I haven't been here that long, but first off it seems like Gigi has been around here longer than most of us. Although she is well now, she was in the same position as only until a few years ago. Altogether her posts on the bionic comprise a small % of her total posts. I'd wager they're even a small subset of her posts specifically offering help or advice to ppl. And IMHO, it takes a truly black hole of a heart to prey on the patient community that she was once part and parcel of. Sure, Gigi's tone may not always agree with others, but she's not here to be our best friend: only to offer what she's learned. And with that in mind, I've detected no sign of deception.
Last week, I spoke with a neighbor of mine who is around the same age as Gigi (late 70s). He lives in an old house he's been living in for 40 years, except now it's the only one left, surrounded by new apartment complexes in West LA. I asked him the obvious question: "has anyone offered to buy you out?" After all, his tiny plot of land is worth at least a few million. He says "More times than I can count. But what am I gonna do with all that money?? Buy a lotta women?"
Laughs aside, I suspect Gigi would have a similar response especially now that she is completely well, and her husband is well on his way.
My point is, if you suspect someone of having conflict of interests, you should put yourselves in their position and just how much money you'd have to get paid to overcome the karmic ills of misleading a bunch of poor patients. Even if you could put a price on that, I highly doubt Dr. W can afford it to all these "recruiters"
I've spoken with some of the others in Germany in lyme chat, and honestly I've been the one inundating the room about the bionic outta excitement, not them. Don't you think they would mention it every chance they get if they were pushing the product?
As for me, I'm too sick and reliant on karmic retribution to consider taking a single dishonest cent for the rest of my life. I've spent much time wondering what I did before I got sick with lyme to bring this upon myself. Either way, whether it's a punishment or a blessing in disguise, there's too much on the line for me to screw it all up.
Trust me, Dr. W cannot afford my headhunting services. And he'll be the first doc I speak with that knows anything about the machine. I'm a severely ill patient, and I have no expectations for my trip. But if anything good happens, Im gonna make it known and I really hope you skeptics won't be so cynical and so accustomed to being failed by the medical community to dismiss a treatment that just might work wonders for us.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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sixgoofykids
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John, I probably won't be going up there. I have a phone consultation Nov. 4. I do most by phone consult except when I get on heavy meds, then I have to go up periodically. He gives me a break since I'm so far away.
For the skeptical. Don't worry about me, I have nothing but time and money to spare. I thought I'd give this a shot. I've spent WAY more than this on treatment, so it's well worth trying it out.
I wish you were right that I was part of a scam as I have two kids in college ... alas, you might push me back to blogging only while I'm here because of your unreasonable accusations. Not worth the anxiety.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Six, don't ever stop posting here... too many people care about you.. Including me!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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yeah, joey- i agree with you there. that is what i am saying, gigi could be doing lots of other things with her time, but some people, when made ill, develop a strong sense of compassion and empathy towards others in teh same boat and spend lots of energy, perhaps dedicating their lives, to helping those people. i have been there with some of the health issues i have had in the past and can relate. i have helped out thousands, both in the us and abroad, with a grossly under and mis-daignosed injury called a sports hernia, all because i had one and totally ruined my life before i was dosed with lyme and co. i agree with joey that if the bionic fixes me, then you bet i will let people know about it. to say that gigi is part of this crazy international medicine scheme with dr w and other german-based practitioners is totally out of line.
energy medicine goes back a long time- acupuncture, homeopathy, shamanic, mediation...i think, if it is the real deal, then the bionic approach is just new technology meets old theories on energy medicine. dr w, from what i understand, uses another proven method- homeopathy- in his protocol. some have been cured by homeopathy alone. some have been cured with energy-based machines like ondamed and rife.
so while it is good to be skeptical, which is normal, you should also try to keep an open mind.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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oh well, goofy...worth a shot...i could show you and your family some great places to eat while you are in hyde park.
if i wasn't so nearby i'd do a phone consult as well. but i hope to be done with those appointments upon returning to the states.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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john & joey~you have a good way with words.
This board is great for information on all types of treatment, from antibiotics to alternatives. I have learned so much.
For me--after 2.5 years of IV antibiotics, $75k out of pocket, unreimbursed--I now need to look into alternatives because of three cases of refractory c.difficile. I'm not against antibiotics, they did help me. But I have relapsed and I cannot take them anymore. Do I give up or do I look for something else?
There are others like me who, for physical or financial reasons, need to look for something else. I've read the research behind photons, etc. It sounds promising and I am willing to give it a try.
I understand skepticism. It is good to research and be well informed. What a blessing that we are all free to choose what method we pursue. And I continue to remain thankful to others who share their experiences.
Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Sparkle has been making unreasonable posts lately, always about financial issues for herself and others, so I have to assume she's under financial stress and very concerned about money and taking it out on other lymies on the board, whether they want to spend $50 on a biotensor instead of a homemade pendulum, or go to Germany for Bionic 880 instead of Lightworks at home. I don't know why she would make such a post and it is completely counterproductive. Nobody should take it seriously, please. SixGoofy I'm glad you have a blog. You should at least interview Steelbone to report, if you could! Thanks! Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
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You have to look at the facts. I'm not against anyone going to wherever they need to go to get treatment.
I would assume that other countries have much better treatments than we do here.
I am under financial pressure. So, does that make me a lesser person who is not able to have an opinion?
There are alternatives. I do think infrared light works. I am suspicious that there may be a conflict of interest here.
Other people who have advocated various types of therapies who made a profit from them have been kicked off of this message board.
I really don't know if GiGi has accepted money or gifts from these people who she suggests. So, I would like to ask her & clear the air about it.
I'm not going to make any assumptions about it. I just don't know...
Why else would someone who is well be spending so much time defending this treatment & ridiculing others who come up with alternatives.... based on a similar premise?
As I stated earlier - I have nothing against anyone going to Germany to get treatment. Perhaps my statement was vague - there have been people here who ridiculed me & dismissed my findings.
Sixgoofykids has not been one of those people... so, it's not against you.
The Bionic 880 is not the only LED unit available on the market.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Ocean
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Member # 3496
posted
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously. There are MD's in this country RIGHT now who don't believe that Lyme exists, they say it's in our heads (although quite literally, as a mostly neuro-lymie, it IS!), that we are making it up. It's their opinion and seeing all of the chronic Lymies in the world won't change their minds.
I have had this for 12 years and never knew what it was. The only thing that has helped has been an almost totally raw vegan diet. It's really hard to do! Most people in the US would poo poo it, say it's not healthy, ect. BUT, it works for me. I can't convince anyone to try it unless they do it for themself.
I haven't started it again yet as we've just moved back to OH and our fridge isn't working (which is vital for the raw food diet). I know someone who went to Mexico for treatment of prostate cancer using detox/herbs/diet, and he is well without chemo/radiation.
I don't want to start antibiotics, I believe that they are harmful. I'd rather try something else. If it turns out to be a waste of money, then it's my problem. That will be unfortunate, but I'll know. If I don't go and spend the rest of my life sick... how could I live with myself? I have 3 kids, ages 7, 5 and 2. I was to have more energy, I want this anxiety to go away, the muscle weakness, the sadness. I want to live for them.
So for those skeptical, please understand that I believe most of us KNOW this is a risk, we know that, but we want to try it anyhow.
Also, I highy doubt Gigi has any financial ties with Dr. W, otherwise wouldn't she be saying that her husband was cured after 5 treatments and never has to worry about anything again? Instead, she said he is still detoxing, has a little ways to go. ect. Plus, Dr W could be charging much more than he does. 2-3K isn't that much. I just read in the Top Ten Treatments for Lyme Disease that Bryan spent $15K at ONE clinic in Nevada!!
I may be wrong, and I will accept full responsibility for being wrong if this is all a hoax. I plan to visit on the the persons coming back from this trip, so I shall see, but I believe this is very authentic.
By the way, I do think that accusing gigi of working for Dr W so to speak would be like accusing everyone opposed to this of working for Big Pharma. Obviously it would be somewhat devestating if the bionic could cure many things that people usually take antibiotics for. I don't belive that you work for antibiotic companies, just saying that I think gigi is sincere, maybe I'm just gullable, but I get a sincere vibe from her.
posted
As with antibiotics we must also realize that what protocol works for one may not work for another. Sweveral people I talked to were cured (or feeeling 100%)with laser therapy. I tried it and was not.
To this day when I speak with these people they are still 100% several years later.
I guess what I am saying is if the bionic 880 works for some, great, and if it does not work for others, I am sorry.
I am willing to wait to see how people do before I would commit to going there.
I hope we will stop attacking Gigi and each other and just let opinions be posted without nastiness.
As for the cost, it does not seem unreasonable. I just spent a lot of money getting worked up by a reputable MD who would not tell me her protocol for breaking up biofilms unless I signed a paper agreeing to be treated by her. Turned out, as I learned from other patients, it was an over the counter med that had ingredients that I am allergic to and she knew my allergies. So, I wasted my money in the good old USA on a supposedly good LLMD.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 10168 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Costly treatment: Envita of Scotsdale AZ. quoted me 25,000 to 30,000 for natural Lyme treatment. This was two days ago.
This quote was for natural IV therapy. Housing and flight not included.
Now That is expensive.... I would rather put my money on Steel , Six, Willow, and Mojoeys reports for a fraction of the cost.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
Vision: Tincture of time will tell. If SixGoofy, Steelbone, MJoey, NYJohn and others feel they get better, they will disappear from this board. You might want to get their emails to check in on them in six months.
If it's temporary, placebo, only partially helpful, they'll likely be back looking for answers.
It's really that simple. I've learned to just be patient and wait out the "new kid on the block" cure. It sorts itself out over time. Meanwhile, don't get hot and bothered about it. I'm reading these reports with interest and filing them away. I hope for the best, but I just wait, because it's expensive (if it were $10 and no harm done, I'd already have tried it).
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
sixgoofy and others please continue to report back. You are giving me a lot of hope that there is something out there and a doctor out there that can make a huge difference in my health.
The ABX route is no longer the road I want to continue on and my fussy spleen agrees with me about no more ABX. If I never have to treat bart with bart drugs and pass through bart herx hell I will be only too delighted after hearing other peoples journeys through treating bart.
I value all that Gigi has done as a pioneer and highly value the reports coming back from all the people currently treating in Germany. I look forward to their reports daily.
I went undiagnosed for way longer than Ocean. I am sure her 12 years was difficult enough but try adding years on to that. Years of my life wasted with bad health. I had horrific symptoms such as panic attacks that did not last hours but lasted days. I felt like I was losing my mind until I was finally diagnosed after years of trying earlier with bad doctors and bad testing.
Until I was diagnosed this disease brought me a huge amount of shame because I felt due to my runaway anxiety and bartonella fears that I could not control my own mind yet I did not know why. My own sibling treated me like I was crazy and acted superior because I was doing so badly. This disease has caused me years of emotional pain.
Your positive reports give me so much hope. They also give me so much joy to hear that you are all improving. While reading your posts I actually become so overwhelmed at times because you are improving that start to cry.
I feel like there is much beauty and positivity coming out of this treatment due to the successful healing it is generating. It is like the birth of a new era in Lyme treatment. This is something so many of us have been praying for and dreaming about.
For whatever reason the fact that this protocol seems to be working is some how a threat to some people's thought forms.
I think sometimes any kind of change in thinking (like there may be a cure or something that really helps many lymies) is very difficult and threatening for people to wrap their minds around.
Maybe we should all ignore the nay sayers rather than feed into them by responding.
My guess is even though the Bionic 880 light treatment and Dr. W.'s care is a positive birth it is like anything new and not everyone is going to get use to it at once. Maybe that is why some feel threatened by it. What I am trying to say is any change even positive change can be scary at times because it is new.
I know from studying psychic healing that sometimes (not always) not everyone is ready to let go of their dis-ease when they mentally think they are. I am not pointing any fingers here or making judgments. My point is I think we all heal on our own time table and in our own way.
If some people are not open to this treatment that is okay we all have to find what works for us. This may not work for everyone. Everyone needs to follow their intuition and find what does work for them and what treatment they can believe and trust in.
It is wonderful this treatment is helping some people now and maybe 5 years from now it will be more mainstream and more available in the USA so then it can help the masses of people ill with Lyme who are interested in treating this way.
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so i'm just curious, what would it take for you to believe it? How can you be sure anyone and I mean ANYONE on here isn't tied up with financial interests? Especially the poor patients, because let's be honest, they do have the most to gain from doing this right?
No one is going to start walking without a hitch if they've been in a wheelchair for a decade. The claim for this machine is that it eradicates the lyme, not that it sprinkles magic dust on you to return you to your old form 100%. If patients continue coming back with secondary symptoms, that doesn't flout the claim. Just like with antibiotics, after they get the bug under control, our bodies have a gradual process of recovery.
If the only thing that will convince you or anyone else is a scientific trial, you of all people, since you've been on here for so long, should know that there are immense political obstacles in the way of doing a published double-blind trial on a therapy simply because it has the potential to cure. Things don't and likely will never work that way in privatized healthcare.
I'm not saying you're wrong to be skeptical. I think everyone should be, but in a healthy way. One of the reasons why I'm spending this money is because I feel that there's a possibility of bringing back positive news that can really help change the landscape of lyme treatment. I know that with a few of us going now, lymies can go in troves later, share board, food, transportation expenses, or even see a doc domestically (Like I said earlier, if my muscle-testing doc hears good things from me, she will highly consider purchasing one herself) However, this isn't easy for my family. We can just afford the trip without suffering a backlash because my sister earned a full ride to college. Otherwise, I'd be offering well wishes to the next person going.
Do you honestly think Dr. W would pay 6000 euros a pop for advertising his treatment? Because that's how much he'd have to pay me to cover my trip expenses.
We've lost so much faith in the outside medical community. Can't we at least have faith in each others' words?
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I agree oxygenbabe. i fully expect to start hearing less from six, steel, nana. I myself hope that even with good results, I can continue spreading the gospel. I've oftentimes felt that the hardest but also the most important thing to remember when we get well is not to leave the others behind. That is exactly what Gigi has done, and I only hope I can be a smidge as helpful as she's been to patients.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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I don't have that kind of money right now anyhow but I am following and taking notes. Hope it works cause if it does, it will get cheaper and end up in the states.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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posted
We are all beggars in search of bread here . I do not think members like sparkle intend to ACCUSE . Most likeley , they are BROKE , and want some solid evidence before subscribing to the effectiveness of an alternative or ANY therapy . This bionic therapy is high risk in the financial sense for those of us who are in dire straits .
Those of us without the funds are looking for something solid to hang on to , like seeing people say they spent $ 4 Thousand to $10 Thousand on trips and bionic machines and were definitively CURED . That is not accusatory . I do not think sparkle has been accusatory . She has asked reasonable questions .
Like Sparkle, I just want to know something that is definitive , and sometimes the answers that are given here regarding the bionic are not definitive , and indicate " further work on metals or something else " is " still ongoing " . I thank Gigi for sharing and Sperkle for asking insightful and FAIR questions .
WE ALL HOPE THIS WORKS ! EACH OF US . There is no desire to accuse , just a desire to get honest facts to make our choices .
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thank you, annxyz. I have been supportive of the whole issue of infrared therapy.
It just makes me feel weird that some people here attack me for looking into less expensive ways to do the treatment here for people on a budget.
Something makes me wonder about that.
The whole protocol is not all that difficult. It's basically infrared light, nosodes, & supplements. It's not brain surgery. These things are available here through the internet.
I think it's an interesting way to go as far as alternatives to abx.
The problematic part is that people can have severe & unexpected reactions to it during the process. This can be dangerous. So, it's good to have a professional around.
There are alot of gaps & questions that people have a right to know about. The idea of stifling questions with condescension & rudeness troubles me.
This is why I question some people's motives here.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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My posts were not meant as attacks, and I hope they weren't construed to be either. I was only referring to what you and visionoftruth said about conflict of interests. I think the lightworks does have its benefits to. I trust that you have no ties and your reports were honest. I know the fact that the treatment is expensive naturally causes ppl to be more skeptical and take more defensive stances. The main point I keep trying to get across is people should be skeptical, but not to the point of making accusations. Obviously this goes for both the yaysayers and naysayers. I don't like the fact that some will attribute negative posts to "having a bad day" or something to that effect. That is really condescending. But saying someone has a conflict of interests can be extremely offensive to a fellow ex-lyme patient that has only good intentions. As cliche as this is, we all need to put ourselves in each others' shoes more often. Much of this inflammatory back-and-forth can and should be be avoided.
thanks to what Bob and my doc said, I'm starting to believe there is an emotional level to healing. If that is true, trusting in each other can really go a long way. we can pick at things all we want, but I believe it needs to be done in a positive way for both parties' sakes.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Ocean wants to know Who is thinking about going to Germany?
I think this thread has been hijacked.
She is asking who wants to go not who does not want to go.
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I just finished my post, tried to send, and hit the wrong key! So now, sorry you will have to wait until after dinnertime. Got to feed my husband.
But I will tell you --- my granddaughter's soccer game this afternoon was a lot more fun than reading this attempt at character assassinations. They also lost! But being out in the fresh air, blue sky, sunshine and painted trees made up for it.
See you later. I would not want to miss this.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
Actually, I thought this was a thought filled discussion, with minor but beneficial and heartfelt side topics.
Page 1 answered the original question Page 2 brought up good questions of logistics (related, but not answering the question) Page 3 brought up some doubts, concerns that were calmly answered with reassurances, which facilitated resolution.
So far so good!
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Friendly discussion is one thing and fantastic if that is what was going on here but there seems to be some unnecessary unpleasant conflicts that we could all do without.
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