Topic: Who is thinking about going to Germany for Bionic 880?
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I am happy that people are feeling better after seeing Dr. W.
I do have to agree with visionoftruth's statement.
GiGi and others have bashed me for experimenting with the LightWorks. I have gotten great relief by using this $300 device. I do not sell them nor do I make money from talking about them.
I feel there is a huge conflict of interest going on here. We don't really know if GiGi is getting paid by Dr. W or the company that makes the Bionic 880. She has never stated that she isn't...
Dr W has obviously seen a big increase in patients due to the posting on this message board... so much so, that he is now accepting credit cards - something not traditional to German doctors.
I'm very glad for people who can afford to travel & be treated by a doctor who they get results from. I also think that healing with infrared light does work.
My issue is that GiGi & some of the others have a conflict of interest here. Other people selling things that may be of benefit have been booted off of Lymenet.
These posts about the Bionic 880 & Dr. W seem to become a big advertisement for going to Germany for treatment. Perhaps the people who are benefiting should make a nice donation to Lymenet...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
i think that skepticism is good because science is based on it- that is theory.
but i also think that some of the people here are downright out to attack others and that is overboard.
some of you really need to do research on the medical system and various approaches used in europe, in particular germany, austria, and switz, and that can reveal a lot about your insane accusations about dr w, without even having experienced it for yourself.
i am thankful gigi, who, mind you, still posts here aside from being well, to help out those people who are still suffering. if i had connections in germany and spoke the language then i too would be lucky to be able to learn about medicines such as dr w's approaches.
i personally have been to germany for 2 surgeries when american, ego and money-based medicine failed to even properly diagnose me for a nasty injury (tore my 6pack off of the pubic bone, bilateral hernias, and torn abdominals) for 18 months! the care i recieved there was not only less expensive but was far beyond anything i have received here. that includes pre- and post-op care--it was all included. and it was less invasive than what i would have gotten here. they almost killed me here. i had two large tumors (fatty) removed in those surgeries in germany.
i also have had several european approaches used on me post-op (both just happen to be german in origin) and were fantastic. of course big pharma/insurance would not even recognize it. why? because 1) it works 2) is cheaper than drugs or surgery, and 3) it wasn't taught at hopkins med.
the ondamed is the predecessor to the bionic 880. rife is based on the same philosophies. so is pulse "laser," which a number of docs here in the us use.
my pcp is actually an llmd, and just yesterday he said i should go for it (germany) as he has used the ondamed with good success on a bunch of patients.
abx is what we know here. the alt therapies are not typically pushed because they are not widely taught, and are not covered by insurance plans. but abx can really damage you, if you don't know that then you don't pay attention.
i am thinking that it is worth a shot. 2000+ plus people is a lot. how many people currently post on lymenet?
to say gigi is involved in some in depth scheme is outrageous. she knows darn well that most lymies are with limited funds. that is not who scammers target. this is not the x-files.
i think that before you lash out you should wait and see what happens with others. then take it or leave it, your choice.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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posted
all good points nyjohn. i have nothing against skepticism. I was in the same boat myself only a month ago. But if you're gonna come out and say Gigi and others have financial ties to these doctors, you could at least do a little more sleuthing.
I haven't been here that long, but first off it seems like Gigi has been around here longer than most of us. Although she is well now, she was in the same position as only until a few years ago. Altogether her posts on the bionic comprise a small % of her total posts. I'd wager they're even a small subset of her posts specifically offering help or advice to ppl. And IMHO, it takes a truly black hole of a heart to prey on the patient community that she was once part and parcel of. Sure, Gigi's tone may not always agree with others, but she's not here to be our best friend: only to offer what she's learned. And with that in mind, I've detected no sign of deception.
Last week, I spoke with a neighbor of mine who is around the same age as Gigi (late 70s). He lives in an old house he's been living in for 40 years, except now it's the only one left, surrounded by new apartment complexes in West LA. I asked him the obvious question: "has anyone offered to buy you out?" After all, his tiny plot of land is worth at least a few million. He says "More times than I can count. But what am I gonna do with all that money?? Buy a lotta women?"
Laughs aside, I suspect Gigi would have a similar response especially now that she is completely well, and her husband is well on his way.
My point is, if you suspect someone of having conflict of interests, you should put yourselves in their position and just how much money you'd have to get paid to overcome the karmic ills of misleading a bunch of poor patients. Even if you could put a price on that, I highly doubt Dr. W can afford it to all these "recruiters"
I've spoken with some of the others in Germany in lyme chat, and honestly I've been the one inundating the room about the bionic outta excitement, not them. Don't you think they would mention it every chance they get if they were pushing the product?
As for me, I'm too sick and reliant on karmic retribution to consider taking a single dishonest cent for the rest of my life. I've spent much time wondering what I did before I got sick with lyme to bring this upon myself. Either way, whether it's a punishment or a blessing in disguise, there's too much on the line for me to screw it all up.
Trust me, Dr. W cannot afford my headhunting services. And he'll be the first doc I speak with that knows anything about the machine. I'm a severely ill patient, and I have no expectations for my trip. But if anything good happens, Im gonna make it known and I really hope you skeptics won't be so cynical and so accustomed to being failed by the medical community to dismiss a treatment that just might work wonders for us.
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
John, I probably won't be going up there. I have a phone consultation Nov. 4. I do most by phone consult except when I get on heavy meds, then I have to go up periodically. He gives me a break since I'm so far away.
For the skeptical. Don't worry about me, I have nothing but time and money to spare. I thought I'd give this a shot. I've spent WAY more than this on treatment, so it's well worth trying it out.
I wish you were right that I was part of a scam as I have two kids in college ... alas, you might push me back to blogging only while I'm here because of your unreasonable accusations. Not worth the anxiety.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Six, don't ever stop posting here... too many people care about you.. Including me!
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
yeah, joey- i agree with you there. that is what i am saying, gigi could be doing lots of other things with her time, but some people, when made ill, develop a strong sense of compassion and empathy towards others in teh same boat and spend lots of energy, perhaps dedicating their lives, to helping those people. i have been there with some of the health issues i have had in the past and can relate. i have helped out thousands, both in the us and abroad, with a grossly under and mis-daignosed injury called a sports hernia, all because i had one and totally ruined my life before i was dosed with lyme and co. i agree with joey that if the bionic fixes me, then you bet i will let people know about it. to say that gigi is part of this crazy international medicine scheme with dr w and other german-based practitioners is totally out of line.
energy medicine goes back a long time- acupuncture, homeopathy, shamanic, mediation...i think, if it is the real deal, then the bionic approach is just new technology meets old theories on energy medicine. dr w, from what i understand, uses another proven method- homeopathy- in his protocol. some have been cured by homeopathy alone. some have been cured with energy-based machines like ondamed and rife.
so while it is good to be skeptical, which is normal, you should also try to keep an open mind.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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posted
oh well, goofy...worth a shot...i could show you and your family some great places to eat while you are in hyde park.
if i wasn't so nearby i'd do a phone consult as well. but i hope to be done with those appointments upon returning to the states.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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posted
john & joey~you have a good way with words.
This board is great for information on all types of treatment, from antibiotics to alternatives. I have learned so much.
For me--after 2.5 years of IV antibiotics, $75k out of pocket, unreimbursed--I now need to look into alternatives because of three cases of refractory c.difficile. I'm not against antibiotics, they did help me. But I have relapsed and I cannot take them anymore. Do I give up or do I look for something else?
There are others like me who, for physical or financial reasons, need to look for something else. I've read the research behind photons, etc. It sounds promising and I am willing to give it a try.
I understand skepticism. It is good to research and be well informed. What a blessing that we are all free to choose what method we pursue. And I continue to remain thankful to others who share their experiences.
Posts: 136 | From North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Member # 5831
posted
Sparkle has been making unreasonable posts lately, always about financial issues for herself and others, so I have to assume she's under financial stress and very concerned about money and taking it out on other lymies on the board, whether they want to spend $50 on a biotensor instead of a homemade pendulum, or go to Germany for Bionic 880 instead of Lightworks at home. I don't know why she would make such a post and it is completely counterproductive. Nobody should take it seriously, please. SixGoofy I'm glad you have a blog. You should at least interview Steelbone to report, if you could! Thanks! Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
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posted
You have to look at the facts. I'm not against anyone going to wherever they need to go to get treatment.
I would assume that other countries have much better treatments than we do here.
I am under financial pressure. So, does that make me a lesser person who is not able to have an opinion?
There are alternatives. I do think infrared light works. I am suspicious that there may be a conflict of interest here.
Other people who have advocated various types of therapies who made a profit from them have been kicked off of this message board.
I really don't know if GiGi has accepted money or gifts from these people who she suggests. So, I would like to ask her & clear the air about it.
I'm not going to make any assumptions about it. I just don't know...
Why else would someone who is well be spending so much time defending this treatment & ridiculing others who come up with alternatives.... based on a similar premise?
As I stated earlier - I have nothing against anyone going to Germany to get treatment. Perhaps my statement was vague - there have been people here who ridiculed me & dismissed my findings.
Sixgoofykids has not been one of those people... so, it's not against you.
The Bionic 880 is not the only LED unit available on the market.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously. There are MD's in this country RIGHT now who don't believe that Lyme exists, they say it's in our heads (although quite literally, as a mostly neuro-lymie, it IS!), that we are making it up. It's their opinion and seeing all of the chronic Lymies in the world won't change their minds.
I have had this for 12 years and never knew what it was. The only thing that has helped has been an almost totally raw vegan diet. It's really hard to do! Most people in the US would poo poo it, say it's not healthy, ect. BUT, it works for me. I can't convince anyone to try it unless they do it for themself.
I haven't started it again yet as we've just moved back to OH and our fridge isn't working (which is vital for the raw food diet). I know someone who went to Mexico for treatment of prostate cancer using detox/herbs/diet, and he is well without chemo/radiation.
I don't want to start antibiotics, I believe that they are harmful. I'd rather try something else. If it turns out to be a waste of money, then it's my problem. That will be unfortunate, but I'll know. If I don't go and spend the rest of my life sick... how could I live with myself? I have 3 kids, ages 7, 5 and 2. I was to have more energy, I want this anxiety to go away, the muscle weakness, the sadness. I want to live for them.
So for those skeptical, please understand that I believe most of us KNOW this is a risk, we know that, but we want to try it anyhow.
Also, I highy doubt Gigi has any financial ties with Dr. W, otherwise wouldn't she be saying that her husband was cured after 5 treatments and never has to worry about anything again? Instead, she said he is still detoxing, has a little ways to go. ect. Plus, Dr W could be charging much more than he does. 2-3K isn't that much. I just read in the Top Ten Treatments for Lyme Disease that Bryan spent $15K at ONE clinic in Nevada!!
I may be wrong, and I will accept full responsibility for being wrong if this is all a hoax. I plan to visit on the the persons coming back from this trip, so I shall see, but I believe this is very authentic.
By the way, I do think that accusing gigi of working for Dr W so to speak would be like accusing everyone opposed to this of working for Big Pharma. Obviously it would be somewhat devestating if the bionic could cure many things that people usually take antibiotics for. I don't belive that you work for antibiotic companies, just saying that I think gigi is sincere, maybe I'm just gullable, but I get a sincere vibe from her.
hiker53
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Member # 6046
posted
As with antibiotics we must also realize that what protocol works for one may not work for another. Sweveral people I talked to were cured (or feeeling 100%)with laser therapy. I tried it and was not.
To this day when I speak with these people they are still 100% several years later.
I guess what I am saying is if the bionic 880 works for some, great, and if it does not work for others, I am sorry.
I am willing to wait to see how people do before I would commit to going there.
I hope we will stop attacking Gigi and each other and just let opinions be posted without nastiness.
As for the cost, it does not seem unreasonable. I just spent a lot of money getting worked up by a reputable MD who would not tell me her protocol for breaking up biofilms unless I signed a paper agreeing to be treated by her. Turned out, as I learned from other patients, it was an over the counter med that had ingredients that I am allergic to and she knew my allergies. So, I wasted my money in the good old USA on a supposedly good LLMD.
Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8879 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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feelfit
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posted
Costly treatment: Envita of Scotsdale AZ. quoted me 25,000 to 30,000 for natural Lyme treatment. This was two days ago.
This quote was for natural IV therapy. Housing and flight not included.
Now That is expensive.... I would rather put my money on Steel , Six, Willow, and Mojoeys reports for a fraction of the cost.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Vision: Tincture of time will tell. If SixGoofy, Steelbone, MJoey, NYJohn and others feel they get better, they will disappear from this board. You might want to get their emails to check in on them in six months.
If it's temporary, placebo, only partially helpful, they'll likely be back looking for answers.
It's really that simple. I've learned to just be patient and wait out the "new kid on the block" cure. It sorts itself out over time. Meanwhile, don't get hot and bothered about it. I'm reading these reports with interest and filing them away. I hope for the best, but I just wait, because it's expensive (if it were $10 and no harm done, I'd already have tried it).
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
sixgoofy and others please continue to report back. You are giving me a lot of hope that there is something out there and a doctor out there that can make a huge difference in my health.
The ABX route is no longer the road I want to continue on and my fussy spleen agrees with me about no more ABX. If I never have to treat bart with bart drugs and pass through bart herx hell I will be only too delighted after hearing other peoples journeys through treating bart.
I value all that Gigi has done as a pioneer and highly value the reports coming back from all the people currently treating in Germany. I look forward to their reports daily.
I went undiagnosed for way longer than Ocean. I am sure her 12 years was difficult enough but try adding years on to that. Years of my life wasted with bad health. I had horrific symptoms such as panic attacks that did not last hours but lasted days. I felt like I was losing my mind until I was finally diagnosed after years of trying earlier with bad doctors and bad testing.
Until I was diagnosed this disease brought me a huge amount of shame because I felt due to my runaway anxiety and bartonella fears that I could not control my own mind yet I did not know why. My own sibling treated me like I was crazy and acted superior because I was doing so badly. This disease has caused me years of emotional pain.
Your positive reports give me so much hope. They also give me so much joy to hear that you are all improving. While reading your posts I actually become so overwhelmed at times because you are improving that start to cry.
I feel like there is much beauty and positivity coming out of this treatment due to the successful healing it is generating. It is like the birth of a new era in Lyme treatment. This is something so many of us have been praying for and dreaming about.
For whatever reason the fact that this protocol seems to be working is some how a threat to some people's thought forms.
I think sometimes any kind of change in thinking (like there may be a cure or something that really helps many lymies) is very difficult and threatening for people to wrap their minds around.
Maybe we should all ignore the nay sayers rather than feed into them by responding.
My guess is even though the Bionic 880 light treatment and Dr. W.'s care is a positive birth it is like anything new and not everyone is going to get use to it at once. Maybe that is why some feel threatened by it. What I am trying to say is any change even positive change can be scary at times because it is new.
I know from studying psychic healing that sometimes (not always) not everyone is ready to let go of their dis-ease when they mentally think they are. I am not pointing any fingers here or making judgments. My point is I think we all heal on our own time table and in our own way.
If some people are not open to this treatment that is okay we all have to find what works for us. This may not work for everyone. Everyone needs to follow their intuition and find what does work for them and what treatment they can believe and trust in.
It is wonderful this treatment is helping some people now and maybe 5 years from now it will be more mainstream and more available in the USA so then it can help the masses of people ill with Lyme who are interested in treating this way.
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so i'm just curious, what would it take for you to believe it? How can you be sure anyone and I mean ANYONE on here isn't tied up with financial interests? Especially the poor patients, because let's be honest, they do have the most to gain from doing this right?
No one is going to start walking without a hitch if they've been in a wheelchair for a decade. The claim for this machine is that it eradicates the lyme, not that it sprinkles magic dust on you to return you to your old form 100%. If patients continue coming back with secondary symptoms, that doesn't flout the claim. Just like with antibiotics, after they get the bug under control, our bodies have a gradual process of recovery.
If the only thing that will convince you or anyone else is a scientific trial, you of all people, since you've been on here for so long, should know that there are immense political obstacles in the way of doing a published double-blind trial on a therapy simply because it has the potential to cure. Things don't and likely will never work that way in privatized healthcare.
I'm not saying you're wrong to be skeptical. I think everyone should be, but in a healthy way. One of the reasons why I'm spending this money is because I feel that there's a possibility of bringing back positive news that can really help change the landscape of lyme treatment. I know that with a few of us going now, lymies can go in troves later, share board, food, transportation expenses, or even see a doc domestically (Like I said earlier, if my muscle-testing doc hears good things from me, she will highly consider purchasing one herself) However, this isn't easy for my family. We can just afford the trip without suffering a backlash because my sister earned a full ride to college. Otherwise, I'd be offering well wishes to the next person going.
Do you honestly think Dr. W would pay 6000 euros a pop for advertising his treatment? Because that's how much he'd have to pay me to cover my trip expenses.
We've lost so much faith in the outside medical community. Can't we at least have faith in each others' words?
-joey
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I agree oxygenbabe. i fully expect to start hearing less from six, steel, nana. I myself hope that even with good results, I can continue spreading the gospel. I've oftentimes felt that the hardest but also the most important thing to remember when we get well is not to leave the others behind. That is exactly what Gigi has done, and I only hope I can be a smidge as helpful as she's been to patients.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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I don't have that kind of money right now anyhow but I am following and taking notes. Hope it works cause if it does, it will get cheaper and end up in the states.
Steve
Posts: 406 | From Rhode Island | Registered: May 2007
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posted
We are all beggars in search of bread here . I do not think members like sparkle intend to ACCUSE . Most likeley , they are BROKE , and want some solid evidence before subscribing to the effectiveness of an alternative or ANY therapy . This bionic therapy is high risk in the financial sense for those of us who are in dire straits .
Those of us without the funds are looking for something solid to hang on to , like seeing people say they spent $ 4 Thousand to $10 Thousand on trips and bionic machines and were definitively CURED . That is not accusatory . I do not think sparkle has been accusatory . She has asked reasonable questions .
Like Sparkle, I just want to know something that is definitive , and sometimes the answers that are given here regarding the bionic are not definitive , and indicate " further work on metals or something else " is " still ongoing " . I thank Gigi for sharing and Sperkle for asking insightful and FAIR questions .
WE ALL HOPE THIS WORKS ! EACH OF US . There is no desire to accuse , just a desire to get honest facts to make our choices .
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thank you, annxyz. I have been supportive of the whole issue of infrared therapy.
It just makes me feel weird that some people here attack me for looking into less expensive ways to do the treatment here for people on a budget.
Something makes me wonder about that.
The whole protocol is not all that difficult. It's basically infrared light, nosodes, & supplements. It's not brain surgery. These things are available here through the internet.
I think it's an interesting way to go as far as alternatives to abx.
The problematic part is that people can have severe & unexpected reactions to it during the process. This can be dangerous. So, it's good to have a professional around.
There are alot of gaps & questions that people have a right to know about. The idea of stifling questions with condescension & rudeness troubles me.
This is why I question some people's motives here.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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My posts were not meant as attacks, and I hope they weren't construed to be either. I was only referring to what you and visionoftruth said about conflict of interests. I think the lightworks does have its benefits to. I trust that you have no ties and your reports were honest. I know the fact that the treatment is expensive naturally causes ppl to be more skeptical and take more defensive stances. The main point I keep trying to get across is people should be skeptical, but not to the point of making accusations. Obviously this goes for both the yaysayers and naysayers. I don't like the fact that some will attribute negative posts to "having a bad day" or something to that effect. That is really condescending. But saying someone has a conflict of interests can be extremely offensive to a fellow ex-lyme patient that has only good intentions. As cliche as this is, we all need to put ourselves in each others' shoes more often. Much of this inflammatory back-and-forth can and should be be avoided.
thanks to what Bob and my doc said, I'm starting to believe there is an emotional level to healing. If that is true, trusting in each other can really go a long way. we can pick at things all we want, but I believe it needs to be done in a positive way for both parties' sakes.
Posts: 713 | From Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Ocean wants to know Who is thinking about going to Germany?
I think this thread has been hijacked.
She is asking who wants to go not who does not want to go.
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
I just finished my post, tried to send, and hit the wrong key! So now, sorry you will have to wait until after dinnertime. Got to feed my husband.
But I will tell you --- my granddaughter's soccer game this afternoon was a lot more fun than reading this attempt at character assassinations. They also lost! But being out in the fresh air, blue sky, sunshine and painted trees made up for it.
See you later. I would not want to miss this.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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northstar
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Member # 7911
posted
Actually, I thought this was a thought filled discussion, with minor but beneficial and heartfelt side topics.
Page 1 answered the original question Page 2 brought up good questions of logistics (related, but not answering the question) Page 3 brought up some doubts, concerns that were calmly answered with reassurances, which facilitated resolution.
So far so good!
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Friendly discussion is one thing and fantastic if that is what was going on here but there seems to be some unnecessary unpleasant conflicts that we could all do without.
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northstar
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posted
quote:there seems to be some unnecessary unpleasant conflicts that we could all do without.
Actually, I thought the responses to those who raised questions, were really good, and done without conflict, and that includes the levels of healing. Hidden concerns are not necessarily conflict, especially when they were responded to in such a generous tone, which elicited generous tone in response.
A mere drop in the bucket of 3 pages of posts (oops, this makes it page 4).
Northstar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
To answer vision's questions:
> Where is the proof?
Don't think in our lifetime we will ever see clinical study on this. I'm not willing to wait, when I can afford it, I'd rather be treated by Dr. W. or by the bionic 880 in some way. That is my opinion!
If 5 people come back and say they are much better from the treatment, that's as much proof as we are going to get. Nanadubo believes she's in remission from dr. w.'s treatment after 3 weeks thats at least one, annsha two children makes it 3 testimonials. Those are folks known on the board who are now stating they are well. I find that significant as well as other reports so far. Just stay tuned, we'll learn more. As far as number of testimonials = proof, I don't know what that is.
> Where is the documented evidence?
Doubt we'll see actual documented evidence for some time. Because documented evidence would have to be acceptable to the CDC or the AMA. Wouldn't you agree? If it has to do with using light to heal lyme. Doubt that is in our life time.
It funny many doctors suspected biofilm in the alternative world for years. That bacterial colonies actual communicate together is something Dr. K. posted years back. Only recently do we have documented proof.
Its fine to be skeptical, really it is. You don't have to spend any money when your skeptical and there is no financial or emotional risk. But gee there is the part of wanting to feel well. It is quite a dilemma. It is one we all face.
Hopefully you find the answers you seek. Or wait until those answers are documented by the IDSA or the AMA or big pharma or the FDA or the CDC or the universities. Everyone has choices to make.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
As I promised:
Regarding credit cards and doctors. When we were in Germany in June for treatment by Dr. Woitzel, I kept bugging him, and he installed the credit card system. I knew before we went to Germany, once I had seen Dr. W's power point presentation at a Medical Conference, that other Lymies would be heading overthere. I didn't want to walk around with a lot of cash on my body. (Little old ladies with a man in a wheelchair are easy prey!) Checks, as we know them here, are no longer used in Germany and the constantly changing dollar/euro exchange rate, leaves only mostly bank transfers. So now, it's ood for the ones that come after us that Dr. W. takes credit cards. Credit cards are not the custom in Germany. Our friends and relatives would wonder if they saw me charging my groceries! (gives us flying points!)
My dentist in Germany does not take credit cards. He sends people the bill after the work is done. I did not expect Dr. W. to do that. But he concurred that it is a lot easier and had the credit card facility arranged and available the day before we had to pay our bill and return home. He had started to realize at that point how many people with Lyme in the USA are looking for treatment that works. Remember when I deleted my original post about ``successful treatment'' --- one of the reasons was that he was flooded with phone calls all the time and had to shut down phones. Now he gets many e-mails which he has no time to answer and gets accused for that. Do you all remember the recent event. It seems I can't win and he can't either.
As for any doubts re success with Bionic880 treatment, I think he is still trying to figure out whether the bugs are more toxic in this country than the German ones, because he has been very successful with the treatment there for close to eight years. I have almost come to the conclusion that climate and travel for the insects forces them to evolve and become tougher and tougher the longer and further they go. I have always said that they are highly intelligent and that we are being conquered, slowly but surely. Dr. K. said it years ago and I have started to believe the same way. Another reason I feel is that the Europeans #1 have stronger building codes - EMF is a factor, but not as it is in this country. The Europeans also were not exposed to EMF as early as people in this country. It took years before they had a ``computer in every household''. I recently moved my desk even further away from the box, because I noticed my blood pressure going up systematically while sitting at the computer too close to my screen. (I test these things now with a very fine instrument - my Biotensor; it goes into minus/unhealthy territory from one inch to the next. )
Further, re Dr. W's character: A reputable medical doctor licensed in a small country like Germany does not go around the country making power point presentations to the medical community telling lies. He would be behind bars by now if that were the case. At one of the most recent ones, Prof. Popp - the father of the biophoton --- was in the audience. There may be a crook here and there, but your mistrust is misplaced.
I will only quickly respond to the rest of the accusations regarding me. I am very familiar with Visionoftruth - she about destroyed me with her nastiness a year or two ago when the discussion related to mercury and my friend and doctor, Dr. K. The ``discussion'' went on page after page. No more of that for me. I do not have time to waste. My years are counted. Mercury is a neurotoxin and I don't get paid off.
Sparkle seems to mix apples with oranges when it comes to lights - so there is no reason for me to get back into that. I cannot get to first base with her comebacks. We are comparing a bicycle with a jet plane, usually followed by her crys about being poor. Do it if it works. O2babe said it quite clearly. None of us has much left after years of treatment, and the crying people suck all the energy out of me. I am sorry if I do not spend much time ``feeling sorry'' and emphasizing with people. I know I have a big heart, and if you don't know that yet, I can't help it. I am not forcing anyone, I am simply defending what I have found to be the truth.
As far as my making a fortune on selling products and equipment, if any one of the people you suspect of enriching my life with monetary rewards and gifts should ever make me an offer worth my while which would not curtail my lifestyle and freedom, of course I would consider it. I would at that point stop posting on Lymenet permanently. Up to this very date, since October 2000, I have given a lot more to Lymenet than I have received.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I guess I'm the only one here who has a problem with the expense of this therapy...?
I'm not the only one who is looking for alternatives.
I'm also not the only one who was wondering about a potential conflict of interest.
Somehow, I'm the one who seems to incite quite a bit of inflammatory remarks directed against me.
Personally, I think it's a low blow... GiGi.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Many of us have had such great experience with using other alternative type treatments before they were recognized in the US.
For others, they need to see long term results. They do not go on gut intuition and feeling. I find that many people I encounter cannot even get their head around long term lyme disease! I live with someone like that. It is good that people discuss the pros and cons...but not to put down those who have a higher comfort level with trying things that are not harmful, and sharing their results with others of the like mind.
I do believe that there are different ways to heal the body, as I have personally witnesed and had my own positive results.
This is why I do believe the bionic 880 treatment has much to offer. I believe in a few years it will be in the US, and available for others. Some of us do not want to wait. I've already given up many of my few years on this planet, and I'm ready for a healthier life.
We that have hope in it, must give room to those who cannot get their head around it. I think it's a personality thing that some are prone to scepticism. I don't think they are being mean spirited, I hope. I just knowI have a husband that naturally questions everything related to medical and money! We are a good team,as we respect each others thoughts, have great discussions, and if I wait long enough, he usually comes around to understanding, and hasa suprised himself by experiencing unique healing trying a non-approved device to cure his plantar faciatis.
They have to see to believe, but it doesn't change their chronic skeptism. It's healthy debate!
Let's just stay positive and respectful, as on line conversations can take on a negetive tone without meaning to do so.
SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
GiGi, you have BY FAR given more to this forum than you have likely received. I am a beneficiary of that giving and I thank you!
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Sparkle I have to agree with GiGi the cost of a treatment is what it is. You can't make an apple into an orange. If the treatment is expensive we just have to make it more affordable. One unit of 10k during the course of a year could treat 200 to 300 hundred lymies if we could just find a way to share. Then cost is no longer an issue. As the testimonials keep rolling in the interest will rise.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Hi I'm new to the thread and it is very excting to hear about the clinic in Germany. I have a few questions and forgive me if this has been brought up previously and my lyme brain has missed it. Gigi & Six, if we have mercury fillings did Dr. W. specifically say it has to be removed first to benefit from treatment? Is it a requirement in order to use the photon machine? Does anyone know how much something like removing mercury fillings can cost?
BTW you are both very kind to take the time out to report your experiences and help so many other people You are very much appreciated.
Posts: 56 | From SouthWest | Registered: Jul 2008
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Just want to warn you that in the Black Forest, Where Pforzheim is situated is HIGLY ENDEMIC for the virus that can be found in European ticks called TBE or FSME. Causing severe encephalitis and some people can die from it.
There is no treatment available but you can take an immunization shot if you do not have lyme.....then you can't.
Please be CAREFUL if you visit parks etc.
It is a VERY dangerous virus!!
I would stay away from the woods for sure.
Don't want to scare you off, I lived in PFZ almost a year. You have to be careful, that's all.
Posts: 347 | From sweden | Registered: Feb 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
This is the same problem all over Europe. I have friends in Sweden who are very ill. I have friends in Austria who are ill. The eastern countries are ill.
Care should be taken anywhere in any area of the world, that is green, grassy, forested. The ticks are everywhere and infections of all sorts come with them.
Any place, except Antarctica, is contaminated. And I am not sure sure about Antarctica any longer.
Who would have ever thought that there is a tick in Hawaii, the Big Island. That is where I got mine, and the people who owned the property are as ill today as we once were; they just don't quite believe in ticks yet.
So I am glad you are bringing this up for anyone out there to be alert - anyplace.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I always wondered about the rates of Lyme disease in Hawaii because they do not seem to report many cases if any but that does not mean it is not there. Now we know it certainly is there.
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GiGi
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posted
quote:Hi I'm new to the thread and it is very excting to hear about the clinic in Germany. I have a few questions and forgive me if this has been brought up previously and my lyme brain has missed it. Gigi & Six, if we have mercury fillings did Dr. W. specifically say it has to be removed first to benefit from treatment? Is it a requirement in order to use the photon machine? Does anyone know how much something like removing mercury fillings can cost?
No, Brite, Dr. W. does not specifically say so and did not when we were there. I asked him before we went to see him for treatment "what are you doing about the heavy metals?" His response was "the photons take them out".
In the meantime, I have learned a little more. It is a lot easier to release the heavy metals with the photon applications. It should be done repeatedly and attention has to be paid that the metals are not reabsorbed. Binding agents are important,
However, from my experience and has been taught by some very knowledgable doctors, as long as the amalgam fillings are in the mouth, the mercury escapes and is absorbed in nerve tissue.
I have learned that a lot of people cannot get totally well as long as they have to deal with the heavy metals in their system. Not only in the teath, but in other body compartments.
I have posted a lot on this subject. Maybe do a search here.
You should only go to a dentist who believes in the toxicity of mercury, etc., and does not do root canals any longer. Maybe there will be a safer way to do them sometime, but not at the present. The toxins root canals put out (dead tooth!) are highly carcinogenic. I also posted a lot about that many times before.
I do not believe in keeping amalgams in my mouth, because they created more problems for me than the Lyme infections. The Lyme infections would probably not have taken such a toll had I not had many amalgam fillings and many root canals.
I would adivse anyone to really check all this out thoroughly. I believe in turning the gas stove off when the gas is leaking into the room! As long as there are neuological symptoms, mercury most likely plays a role. Mercury is the worst neurotoxin and we are now surrounded by it. We have dug all the heavy metals up, Trees absorb it - any forest fire - and we are back to more in the atmosphere everywhere.
I don't know what it costs to remove them - look for a biological dentist or holistic dentist and do ask these questions. Also get tested for the replacement material before you do. Any good holistic dentist knows about that by now and can test you or can have you tested.
Hope this helps.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
About detoxing heavy metals in a week: that's what I seem to have done with light, using the Photon Wave.
What I couldn't do in more than 2 years of herbs, supplements, etc, I think it was done in a week.
Same happened to my daughter, who's almost 5 now. She was born with mercury. All gone this last week, with 3 treatments. And we've been trying to clean her for years too!!!
We're both having some kind of strange reactions to this treatment with light, I have now borrelia testing again (it was dormant before) and my daughter is having aphtous ulcers all over her mouth.
I went there with a friend who's got active borrelia, arthritis, and she's got strong detox reactions to the light treatment too.
I feel 'lighter', my mood is lighter, my skin mycosis is gone ... Things are happening. I was treating mycosis with Sanum homeopathics, but they stopped testing after the first light treatment.
The lady who treated us has the same borrelia nosodes used by dr. W. and she said she uses these nosodes to treat people. But she first starts with heavy metals, then tests people for vaccinations, when these are cleaned, she'll test for parasites and pathogens (borrelia included) and treat these.
she won't do all at once because it would be overwhelming, she said.
All she had to do is treat patients with 6 minutes of light (through the eyes), then talk about how to help the body detox. That's as simple as it. Very similar to what dr. W. does, but he's more into a 'serious' detox (probably because the Bionic 'detoxes' borrelia, coinfections and heavy metals all at once!!). She does by steps.
Light is taken only through the eyes!
I can hardly believe most of my heavy metals are out in ONE week, but my tests confirm her tests!!!
And there must be a reason for borrelia to be alive again (it woke up since Wednesday, at least in our energetic tests).
I'm testing for borrelia nosodes potency D8, even though I feel nothing, none of my dozens of lyme symptoms are present and I just test for none of my magic herbs or supplements. So I leave my body doing the work so far.
On Monday, borrelia was not testing for her too (before my first session with light).
The treatment is very unexpensive and fast. The fact that my borrelia showed up does make me think about the close relationship between borrelia and heavy metals (and my constant relapses).
The aphtous ulcers from my daughter point to herpes (I still need confirmation though). I'm also guessing they came up with the release of hiding places for herpes, since her metals are out. She never had it so bad as now.
Photon Wave machines are in the US already, she told me.
I still can't believe I'm free of mercury. It's been a war of more than 2 years for me.
I'll pursue this light treatment wiht dr. W.'s nosodes (that's how she treats her own patients). In case they still test, of course, after this cleansing.
The only sure thing for now is that for the first time since I started treating lyme, I test negative for mercury. And so does my daughter. We did two tests, hers (ART) and mine, they confirm each other.
I tested my friend too, who came with us, and was positive for gold and other metals first, after 4 days, these tested negative (in both tests, mine and the lady's ART).
If eliminating borrelia is as fast as eliminating metals, this machine can possibly compete with the Bionic!!
I can only take her word, that it works very well and as fast with pathogens, as much as it did with heavy metals.
I can hardly believe this, I mean, that I'm free of most heavy metals. I still need to see if I still got some showing up later (peeling the onion theory)...
She charges very little for each time we use the machine. It's totally unexpensive for what it does.
I think that what the naturopath or doctor has to know is basically how to manage die off and toxic overload reactions. The rest is done with light!
She confirmed the use of Borrelia nosodes potency LM4 and LM6 as preventive of tick bites.
She's gone to a conference about light in Germany. It's happening this week in Heildelberg!
This makes me think that there are other modalities of treatments for borreliosis out there, to be discovered.
She herself got cured from cancer with light, that's when her adventure started.
Selma
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Where is the lady who treats you located? Would you mind pm'ing me her contact info?
Thank you,
Patti
Posts: 975 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Sorry, I forgot to say which machine, it was the Photon Wave. I went to Brussels for treatment, but there are dozens of machines all over Europe. The lady who treated me is not in Brussels but in Flanders (north of Brussels).
Google Rainbow Flash & Photon Wave, you'll find it. Her site doesn't say much, the lady is a bad marketing person...
Selma
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Hi Selma, So glad you posted your experience. I am so happy for you.I know you have worked very hard to get well. I am also glad to see their are alternatives that are less expensive. I think I had heard of the Photon in Calif. Can't remember where. My MD feels it will be light and energy that heals us. Please keep us posted on your new wonderful journey. Healing blessings Joyce.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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i am wondering, however if you can post the link to her site, if you feel comfortable with it, because i cannot seem to find it...but then again i cannot think clearly that often. or pm if you would rather, please. thanks a lot and feel better john
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
This greeting to you, Selma, should really go on a separate thread. I think I posted several on the Photon Wave, but can't find it. So here my comments. Missed you.
Selma,
Glad you are having good results, but keep checking. Metals come in dribbles. Good luck. Here some of my experiences with colors. Besides treatment with CD's = colors also produce sound ----
This is a fantastic instrument - I was treated with its forerunner, identical technology, just a little fancier today, in 1998, etc. In fact, I have it here in our home - it's having a vacation here in our living room.
The instrument is not in all to many medical practices in the US, while you will find them all over Europe. The price is in a similar range/higher than the Bionic. If psychological problems are dominant also, with Lyme, the colors have a deeper effect, just as homeopathics have in the higher dilutions. (We are now treating metals in the very high K1000 with Bionic with light) and they are still forthcoming. I will have to get the photon wave out and test it together with the Bionic.
Dr. K. did a study in 1990 with lab analyses and found the increase in NT stimulation, and more. He found that one treatment with Photon wave equals 20 treatments of Tomatis. And it almost needs little if any added medicines.
My husband did not nearly have the output of heavy metals as with the Bionic, and it did not eradicate the Lyme. He still had it full force when we got to Dr. W. After 3 weeks of Bionic, they were gone. Same testing techniques, etc.
I am sure it has to do with the depth that has to be reached, and that is where the colors come into pay, I think. Any Unresolved Emotional Conflicts often a part of a disease process can be addressed easier with light/color.
The forerunner was the Lumatron. Today's Photon Wave contains a fully automatic computerprogram for frequencies and colors.
Color is extremely effective to stimulate the neurotransmitter metablism - but it is not known which color stimulates which one. It affects the autonomic nervous system and the brain function is stimulated. It also encourages the body's own regulation and detoxing mechanisms.
For detoxing metals - 2-3 minutes of yellow-green to mobilize, and double the time of turqoise and blue to detox.
Add a glass of water while treating to the light and colors and drink the water as med afterward. Don't use lead crystal or plastic. Clear glass. Anything can be added to the light/color: nosodes, allergens, all detox meds in vials, and
We use it occasionally, but you reminded me that I should turn it on more often choosing of course the right color and frequencies. I made myself test vials of all the frequencies and all color combinations --- it was fun. I used it quite a bit when I was still down and under with Lyme, very early into treatment. It didn't seem to be as effective for me then. But, I think, as you say, once the toxic load of anything has been lightened, the color goes deeper. Yellow-green/turquoise-blue/indigo with the vials of mercury etc. against the plexi resonator for mercury, etc.
I know it is used for a great number of problems --- hyperactivity, ADHD, ADS, Legasthenia, eye diseses, light sensitivities, night blindness, skin diseases, whip lash, CFS, PMS, Immune problems, sexual problems, depression, stress, pain, suizidal tend. Of course for bacteria, viruses, parasites, mycosis (fungi/mold).
With many diseases, the optic nerve is affected and therefore can pick up less light than when well.
In general - red light activates - blue sedates.
Effect of colors? Red tones on physical level. Blue tones on mental level. Green tones on emotional level.
Here a few colors for certain symptoms:
Lazy eye - red-orange If sympathetics and parasymp. are in balance - turquoise. Too little parasymphathetics: red colors to little sympathetics: blue colors Immune System, pancreas, intestines: yellow (half our family room turned into yellow when I was sick.....pillows, d�cor)
It goes on and on. I test colors with Biotensor
With many diseases, the optic nerve is affected and therefore can pick up less light than when well. Therapeutic light goes via eye to Cortex, brainstem, hypothalamus, limbic system (emotions) to epiphysis - hypophysis - on to the hormon glands!
Just a few things interesting and what color and light can do.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
When I lived in Santa Fe my then bf and I had a Lumatron in our home among many other things because he wrote about all kinds of healing technologies. Dr. K lived in Santa Fe then and borrowed the Lumatron from us to experiment with. I used to give myself treatments for fun (I was relatively healthy then). I liked the deep red.
Selma that's cool, thanks for reporting, I'll look it up.
Selma, why the LM4 and LM6? You can take them even if you have borrelia and not get some kind of homeopathic aggravation? I really want to know how they arrived at those two potencies as obviously the northeast is full of ticks. Thanks.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
i think the expense is not much considering most of us that have been at this for awhile have already spent in excess of 100k. (i know i have....)
i plan on going as soon as i hear scott's report as i know it will be un biased and reliable.
cheers
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
Djf== are you planning on going to germany??
I am waiting for more reports myself.. but considering it.
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymeparfait
Unregistered
posted
Just booked my appointment with Dr. W. for my daughter and myself.
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Sorry guys, Gigi is right, I should have made another thread.
The link for the site was given by Gigi. It doesn't say much though.
Gigi, thanks for your deep and experienced view on the subject. I know other metals are still showing up (like barium and cobalt for me now), so I wonder if mercury will still show up one day.... I guess I understand what you mean with reaching different layers, from superficial to deeper ones....
I'm also 'healthier' now than when with active lyme, and my daughter has no lyme for more than a year, so... we could be easier examples for detoxing metals.
but anyway, Photon WAve is much more efficient (when used with metal nosodes) than the slow oral chelation we did for years. Mercury was always still testing for us both. Now it stopped testing (even if temporarily, but for me it's a step up, because I was almost giving up trying).
I would be VERY curious to see how you compare your tests to detox metals with the Bionic, Gigi.
I know it can easily be done energetically, and am EXTREMELY curious to see how the Bionic compare to Photon Wave in terms of efficacy (what tests best for what).
I know each case is a case, but I know you start to trust your energetic tests, so I'm very curious. I have lots of possibilities to be treated with the Photonwave close by, but less with the Bionic.
Photon Wave costs around 4500 euros, I think. The treatment cost depends on how much each practioner charges.
O2Babe, as for borrelia potencies LM4 or LM6, I don't think they do anything at all to lyme disease. So far, I never heard of anyone treating lyme with such high potencies of borrelia.
I never had any reaction to them and my lyme was still active (both chronic and newly infected). This lady swears it works well too. Before I only heard it through my lyme doctor. I know it works for me and family (and cats), by pure experience.
You still can get bitten, but I couldn't find borrelia in any of the ticks. The ticks that contaminated my daughter since we started with these nosodes had other critters but no borrelia (confirmed by S., the right hand of dr. K.).
It got once bart and something else, but no borrelia. This last one of this year got TBE though, but again, no borrelia. My daughter got out of both bites, bart only with light homeopathics, TBE with intensive treatment. But I do wonder what our lives would have been today if she had caught borrelia together as she caught first time...
As most ticks are contaminated with borrelia, well,you get bitten by very fewer ticks after taking these nosodes, I can assure you. The cost is ridiculous, it's about 25 dollars that will last few years.
What I'm thinking to do is to continue this detoxing with the Photon Wave, and who knows, still get to do the Bionic sometime next year.
Then I will know if the Photon Wave did the job of eliminating both metals and hidden borrelia, or not. If dr. W. still finds it, it means PWave did it to a certain extent, but not thoroughly.
Anyway, I guess Gigi is right again, that a sick body maybe won't take in the light through eyes as well as a healthier body. I did all MFT tapping while looking at the light, just by intuition.
I won't steal this thread anymore. I just passed very close to Pforzheim through the Autobahn from Belgium yesterday and thought about you guys around.
I guess, a combination of both treatments is not out of question either (before or after using the Bionic).
Good luck to you guys coming here, please keep your experiences posted.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
Here's the content of an email message to me this month from the manufacturer of the Bionic 880 about the price difference between keeping it in Europe and taking it back to the US.
Please find attached a Broshures of Bionic 880 and the treatment advise for Lyme diseas according to doctor med. Woitzel.
In the time being many lyme patient are coming to Germany for treatment and consulting. On their way home they take a Bionic 880 with to continue their treatment. The standard price for the Bionic 880 is EUR 6,400.00 CIF destination. For those person who come to Germany for consultation and treatment the price is USD 5,800.00 only.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
With best regards
H. Buschk�hl GmbH
Buschk�hl Managing Director
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
5,800.00 Euro = 7,782.44 US Dollar 6,400.00 Euro = 8,587.52 US Dollar
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Alv
Unregistered
posted
The price is USD 5,800.00 only??????
Are you sure he is saying USD 5,800.00 ?I have heard people mentioning EURO 5,800.00 .
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northstar
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7911
posted
Alv, you are right..it does say 5,800 USD..... Wow!Big price difference! N/
Posts: 1331 | From hither and yonder | Registered: Sep 2005
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
The head of the firm said what he said! I was pleasantly surprised also!
If you USE IT or KEEP IT in Europe, you have to pay the Value Added Tax, which is very large. If you're exporting it, you don't have to pay the tax, as long as you get it directly from the manufacturer and it's taken directly out of the area (won't bee used in Europe).
If you buy it from someone who has paid the tax, they will, of course, pass it on to you.
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Fivethousandeighthundred is in Euros. Not US Dollars. It is a mistake I am sure. Better check with Buschkuehl Co. to make sure.
Only if you take it out and get a custom office export stamp at the airport before you leave is the VAT tax of 19% taken off the price. That is the law of the land.
For purchases in the country to be used in the country the price is Euro 6,400 plus 19%.
They reduced the price to Euro 5,800. for people going over and being treated by Dr. W. to ease the pain a bit. I am not sure how long -- it is for right now -
I called Mr. Buschkuehl for a friend for ex-cancer-tumor patient who is considering the Bionic for after cancer care. It is working well for keeping cells healthy.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
The problem I have is not with discussion but with judgments - ie people who support this are making money off it. That's all I'll say on that topic.
I am without painkillers now since the day of my first treatment, and I don't need them. I still have a little pain, but nothing like what I was having prior to coming here.
Steel, Willow and I are having busy day after busy day. We do not just sit around our apt all day. So, we have pretty good energy. We do still get tired as Lymies do, but I see a huge improvement in that area as well.
Remember, we've only had TWO treatments!!! Today is treatment number three, so you can check my blog later tonight or tomorrow.
I see promise in this treatment and no danger ... all it is is shining a light on various points while nosodes and borrelia vials are taped to your solar plexus. Seems too simple to be true.
If I do get well from this, I will come back every couple months to give an update. If I get well from this, I won't be able to stick around and answer questions about abx treatment because I will believe in this treatment ..... so we'll see how it goes. So far, so good.
If Willow or Steel have anything noticeably different than I do, I'll post that in my blog. We all three still get some fatigue, but not that disabling fatigue .... we all three get some pains, but not as bad. Remember, we're not even halfway through treatment yet.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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I so thank you for the update ! We are hanging on every word you post , believe me. I have been on ABX three years and see no real hope with them . I think they are causing many problems for me, so I hope this will make a lasting difference for you , and give us all a reason to hope.
posted
gigi, I was wondering if there was anyway I could ask you a question privately... please???
Thank you
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Thanks Gigi, for taking the time to respond in such detail to my question. I agree with what you are saying, I'm not sure if I can afford to take care of my dental work and go to Germany though...
Posts: 56 | From SouthWest | Registered: Jul 2008
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Unexpected search this thread and others. Gigi posts her email address so people can contact her.
I can see why she does not allow PM's I have received a couple of strange ones here myself but many more positive ones.
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
Dear Friends,
After GiGi questioned the data I had on the price of the Bionic 880, I emailed the representative at the company again. His previous email was incorrect--it should have been EURO 5,800 not USD 5,800.
The full text of his reply is below.
Best,
Cass A
The price for the Bionic 880 is EUR 6,400,00 if we ship to Canada and other countries exl. USA. For patient who come to Germany and pick up a system, they pay EUR 5,800,00plus 19% VAT
The VAT will be paid back at the airport by customs before you leave Germany.
I hope you are well informed
Mit freundlichen Gr��en
Heinrich Buschk�hl
Managing Director / Gesch�ftsf�hrer
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Unexpected,
quote:
posted 21 October, 2008 02:44 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gigi, I was wondering if there was anyway I could ask you a question privately... please???
I do not use the PM feature because I have to get on Lymenet to read my mail, and I have no time to do that.
If anyone e-mails me, please identify yourself clearly - giving me a clue that you are from Lymenet. I get some very strange mail that I cannot identify and I simply send it to SPAM or delete it. I do not open it unless you give me some reference. Ahmet sent me a couple that I did not recognize and I sent him to SPAM too - poor guy! I finally caught it.
Will be looking for your mail, Unexpected.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
i'm wondering who is headed there in late january/early february.... please zap me a pm if you can. thanks
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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