Topic: Frontline Plus is working on my lyme scope update 10 days now
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Thank you Mountaingirl for saying that. I too have been very concerned about James that he is desparate enough to apply toxic insecticide to his skin.
I have been even more dismayed to find some posters cheering him on in this dangerous and potentially damaging pursuit, as if this is a "freedom of speech" issue.
I am reminded of a recent sad case, where a young man took an overdose of sleeping pills in front of a webcam and in front of his online community.
According to the news, many members of that internet community cheered on this young man, told him to go for it, and many watched for hours while he died.
Finally, after many hours passed, someone from the board contacted that board's moderators and they contacted the police. But it was too late -- the young man died.
James, using this insecticide on your skin or ingesting it is potentially dangerous and could be seriously harmful to your health.
As others may be interested in following your lead in this, it is irresponsible to suggest it by example to others here on lymenet. I hope you will delete all your threads on Frontline Plus.
James, I hope you will visit an llmd, find one that you trust, and stick with treatment for as long as they suggest.
It takes longer than anyone would want, but most people eventually recover from lyme and co-infections with proper treatment with antibiotics and antimicrobials.
Some people cannot tolerate antibiotics. In that case, there are many safer treatment alternatives that have been used and well-researched, such as Buhner's Healing Lyme herbal protocol.
Treatment is not easy, but staying sick is harder in my experience. Good luck to you and let us know how you are.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Thanks for a few posts of sanity regarding safety. I've posted one above - way above and amid many cheers for this.
This is not about free speech. With free speech comes responsibility and the right of others to question the content of that speech.
This is not about freedom to try new things or things outside of the box. We have the freedom (so far) to try many goo9d things.
There are MANY safe complementary approaches or methods that have been employed by some patients but not by those saying, "well, we have to do this, nothing else works."
Plenty else can work - or help.
I suggested looking at garlic, even. But that was not taken up. Garlic, has many medical abstracts behind it. I am puzzled why cleaning chemicals and ingredients from flea collar won out over garlic? Allicin even helps in treating MSRA.
And - lyme does not hang out in the blood stream. Looking on blood samples will not show lyme. And, if it could, the process for checking blood stains after exposure is not based on academic principles of in vitro vs. in vivo.
Even a sixth grader with a science project has to follow a certain academic progression of procedures.
Using chemicals that are toxic and, potentially neuro-toxic and fatal, would not even get into a science fair.
It's great to wonder and to explore. But please do so following guidelines as you may have learned in school.
But, first, has the wheel already been invented? You might give some other protocols a try. Many have been helped.
And many have also been helped with abx protocols with nutritional support. But it's a process that requires one step at a time. If you can stick to something, give it a chance, and you may find you don't need to explore with toxic chemicals.
Those here whose criticisms - of the WORK - are valid. I'm sure james is a nice guy. It's the work that is of concern and the manner in which so many are cheering work that would not hold up in a science fair as having followed safety measures first. Remember the basics of science classes.
As a former professor of research methods (in journalism, not science, though) I am deeply troubled by this thread. We must stand up to a high standard of research methods.
There are, probably, many professors or retired professors in biochemistry who might enjoy tutoring in a limited capacity for those wanting to learn the basics of research.
Scout them out. But first, please read more of the literature about how lyme works in the body and how the liver works, etc. I'm calling on everyone to read from the experts in the field before going off in uncharted waters.
After reading all that has come before, then, with certain measures in place, there may be new things that come to mind. We obviously have far to go but we need to become familiar with those who have already blazed some trails.
posted
James, I respect your right to research treatment options for yourself. I'm concerned that your experimenting with toxic insecticide on yourself is not treatment though. Increasing your load of toxins is likely to catch up with you.
I doubt that you have the knowledge and skills to correctly recognize what you are seeing under a microscope. The borrelia would probably be too small for you to see. If the toxin kills the Lyme, you would probably get a herx. Since you apparently get a herx from flagyl, it would make more sense to take that.
Think about what might happen to your mother. If it was not for your "experimenting", it obviously would not have ocurred to her to take the insecticide.
I worry about your kids. If you use it on them or they are exposed to excessive toxins, then many consequences are risked. It is your job to protect them.
I hope you talk to a knowledgable medical person and reconsider what you are doing.
Posts: 159 | From Ecuador | Registered: Apr 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
By Marla Cone - June 18, 2003 in print edition A-21
Men exposed to pesticides widely used on crops are many times more likely to have defective sperm and low sperm counts than males with little or no exposure, according to a scientific study published today .
The study provides new evidence supporting a theory that pesticides and other chemicals which mimic estrogen or block testosterone are harming human reproductive systems.
It is the first time that scientists have shown a link between environmental contaminants in men's bodies and large decreases in the number and quality of their sperm.
. . .
None of the men in the new study worked at or lived next to farms, where the pesticides are most commonly used. They were most likely exposed through drinking water supplied by aquifers, Swan said.
. . .
``We also wonder what else it is doing to these men, and what it is doing to the rest of the family, the women and children. . .
. . .
The scientists wrote in the study that they adjusted the data for factors known to affect sperm, including age, race, smoking, abstinence and diseases, which they said left pesticide exposure as the only known culprit. Seasonal temperature differences can also affect sperm, but that effect would not be so large, Perrault and Wang said.
. . . .
- Full article at link.
======================
Also of help in understanding the exposure of insecticide can be found in searches for:
So where do we get this Microscope from and how can we learn to do the live blood analysis!
I would love to learn and test myself to see if ABX is working. Not sure if I would ever try your stuff but I think there is meritt in live blood analysis.
Chootik
Posts: 247 | From Ca | Registered: Feb 2007
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I may be wrong, but aren't CHEMOTHERAPY DRUGS HIGHLY TOXIC POISONS?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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In response to chootik's questions about where to learn more:
You can order DVDs of past ILADS seminars - there are discussions here about how to determine if treatment is working and why it is impossible to do a blood test to determine so as in other infections.
The uniqueness of lyme is explained in many of the seminar sessions.
May 2008 Volume 39 Number 5 LABMEDICINE www.labmedicine.com - American Society for Clinical Pathology
CHRONIC BACTERIAL AND VIRAL INFECTIONS IN NEURODEGENERATIVE AND NEUROBEHAVIORAL DISEASES
- by Garth Nicolson, Ph.D.
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[ 06. December 2008, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Wow James I think this is so interesting and i admire all you work. Gael asked about garlic as well as salt. There has been a lot of talk lately about salt and some say it kills these bugs and parasites etc on contact and too if we put a lot of salt in or systems it could or would make an environment where they could not live.
Whats your view.
On the Front line.. How long have you been doing this and how exactly are you doing it and with what else etc/?
Would you mind sharing your personal protocl at this point in detail for us to learn from or ponder on or try.'
Thanks Much DEB
KEEP GOING James. This site has quite a lot of one sided thinkers and its part of life.. I admire you for continuing on and I understand it might be easier to talk to someone else who has a scope etc.
Have you shared any of this with any other doctors who are doing research etc. I see a doc who has his own lab and has been doing research for a long time on this issue.
posted
Great Keebler - Now we have probably lost James from posting on this forum...
Please let me remind you what A. Schopenhauer (do you know who it was?) once said: ``All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident.''
And BTW, Think how Einstein "stood up to a high standard of research methods" thinking about relativity in patent office room (where he worked as clerk).
New things usually do not come from known, old places, neither from retired professors...
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
why is everyone being chased away and discouraged from posting what they feel or believe..
i am feeling like this is not a very mature or friendly community
From all that I have read of Keebler's wonderful posts on this and other threads, she is obviously very interested (and incredibly knowledgeable) about all kinds of science and scientific methods.
Her comments to James were made out of kindness and concern for his welfare and for those people desperate enough to try some of these dangerous methods on themselves.
We all would love to find a cure for this horrible disease, but encouraging someone to put their life at risk for our perceived benefit is not the way to go.
Thanks, Keebler, for being a brain with a heart of gold!
Jeanne
Posts: 345 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I hope that I'm off base, but James experimenting with pesticide on himself gives me the creeps. It seemed a little like the adolosent boy in Florida who commited suicide online. Some were egging the Florida boy on and others were trying to get him to stop.
James may be doing well, but it would give me a sense of relief for him to make another post. No doubt, others here are worried about him.
(I'm not saying that James would intentially harm himself.)
Posts: 159 | From Ecuador | Registered: Apr 2006
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I guess I cannot make the connection between someone committing suicide and someone trying to cure Lyme disease. One is trying to kill themselves and the other is trying to live a normal life.
No one wants James to harm himself. But I doubt he is going to stop because his experiment is unpopular. Some people are just not inclined to be politically correct.
I did not stop my experiment with MMS and it resolved all of my Crohn's symptoms. Not because it was popular but because the properties of Chlorine Dioxide were precisely what I needed for a treatment.. How many hundreds of warnings were issued on that treatment? Lots of ridicule to boot. Drinking Pool cleaner. Drinking Bleach. Does it ring a bell. Where are the bodies?
Thank goodness I am old enough to think for myself or I would be in for more surgery in the future.
I still have not seen any evidence that the chemicals James is using are lethal or even harmful at the doses he is using. If someone could actually produce evidence I am sure he would take that information seriously.
I hope if someone does know of some danger he has not already addressed they let him know.
To keep repeating pesticide treatment is not going to make a difference. Garlic is also a pesticide. The two words combined do not automatically make something dangerous.
Please provide some evidence of why it is dangerous at the dose he is using. Science minded people do not respond to non scientific opinions. They do respond to real, known dangers.
Dan
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hi Dan I too am scientific and need to see proof and not just opinion. I have not seen any proof that what he is doing is dangerous either and what he has written has actually pointed more in the direction of how safe it is due to testing on animals and as well animals that will be around children who pet them and will put their fingers in their mouths etc.. It has been tested to be safe.. not harmful.> SO if it helps him. great. I have not seen him on here and so maybe he is sick of just defending himself and not being able to just share.. I hope he comes back to chat with us... I am intrigued by him and and support his braveness and efforts to do something for himself.. Of course I hope nothing goes wrong and as well maybe people take many herbs and supplements never tested at all.. And we all can have reactions based on our individual bodies that might be harmful or risky.. But we all make our own choices for our own bodies.. and that is how it is for all of us. Thank goodness. Deb. THANkS for the ongoing thinking and reasearching to find something to cure or kill the bugs that keep us so sick.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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In this study from Duke University, even 28 days of low-dose chemicals on the skin - combined with stress - results in damage. Stress hormones are sky high with lyme. This article can have implications for other chemicals, too.
"Mix of Chemicals Plus Stress Damages Brain, Liver in Animals and Likely in Humans"
excerpts:
" . . . But a decade of neurologic research has revealed widespread damage to the brain, nervous system, liver and testes of rats exposed to 60 days of low-dose chemicals -- the insect repellant DEET, the insecticide permethrin, and the anti-nerve gas agent pyridostigmine bromide. . . . "
. . . " . . . demonstrated that the combination of stress and short-term exposure to chemicals (28 days) can promote cellular death in specific brain regions and injury to the liver. . . ."
- This article also shares insight about Gulf War illness, as may be related to this research.
- Full article at link above.
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[ 07. December 2008, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I hope James looks into this information.
Boy, it sure makes you wonder how this pertains to standardized treatment as well.
Thanks for bringing this up. I am going to look into it also.
D Bergy
Posts: 2924 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
James...Im not going to wade into the debate on whether you should or shouldnt test this stuff on yourself. While it goes against safe testing methodology to test on yourself directly, you're the only one accountable for your own actions.
My point I would make, if you're not already doing so, is to make sure that everything you do, every sample, all formulas, all equations, all times drawing samples, amounts of contrast, amounts of ingredients, etc, etc.. be documented for your own safety and the safety of others if you go forward and pursue copywriting any type of cure for killing Bb.
The more scientific and clinical your testing methodology, the greater the chance for duplicating success, and avoiding possible deadly combinations. Also, the more precise the written testing, the better the chance you can pursue a possible grant, or collaboration with other labs in the US that could possibly take your ideas and expand, improve upon them.
If you can successfully duplicate your merits over and over, then by all means, take your documented proof to a respectible lab to see about possible further testing.
One of the better think tank labs in the midwest is the UW-Madison/WARF. http://www.warf.org/
Good luck...and please...be careful!
Posts: 514 | From . | Registered: Apr 2008
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DebAz
Unregistered
posted
Hi James I was wondering if you were taking a break to help your mother or if you just left or if your busy or if your coming back /?? I keep an eye on your posts and would love to hear how your doing as well as how your research and testing is going.
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