Topic: To everyone with cardiac symptoms please read!!!!!!
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- LOW LEVEL CARDIO
Another matter of interest from sixgoofykids in response to a poster whose LLMD did not want her working out on a treadmill and wishing she could move at a faster speed --
sixgoofykids writes: -----------------------
I just read
The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson
(also has a blog at Marksdailyapple.com ).
He is all about low level cardio, which means slow walks.
His theory is that you can get a lot more movement in and do well for your body without draining the adrenals by over-exercising if you go for slow walks or slow bike rides.
Even as a pilates instructor [inserting for clarification, that she has been in a solid remission now for quite some time],
I limit the number of hard workouts I do in a week, usually 2, then one or two moderate workouts (yesterday's was five minutes! usually the moderates are an hour but at an easy level for me).
We don't need to go all out every time we exercise.
For the rest of my movement, I walk . . . we never walk at high speeds or get our heart rates up. We stroll.
I think (but you'd have to ask your LLMD to verify) that when we say we're using a treadmill, the docs assume we're doing a hard walk and getting our heart rate up, which takes energy away from healing. I would bet you'd be okay to do slower walking so that you can still keep with it.
You might like the book or website I mentioned above. His way of eating is Lyme-friendly. (end quote)
LYME BORRELIOSIS AS A CAUSE OF MYOCARDITIS & HEART MUSCLE DISEASE..
[mulitple authors, see link]
University of Vienna, Austria.
Abstract
Lyme borreliosis (LB) is a multisystem disorder that may cause self-limiting or chronic diseases of the skin, the nervous system, the joints, heart and other organs.
The aetiological agent is the recently discovered Borrelia burgdorferi.
In 1980, cardiac manifestations of LB were first described, including acute conduction disorders, atrioventricular block, transient left ventricular dysfunction and even cardiomegaly.
Pathohistological examination showed spirochaetes in cases of acute perimyocarditis.
Recently, we were able to cultivate Borrelia burgdorferi from the myocardium of a patient with long-standing dilated cardiomyopathy.
In this study, we have examined 54 consecutive patients suffering from chronic heart failure for antibodies to Borrelia burgdorferi. On ELISA, 32.7% were clearly seropositive.
The endomyocardial biopsy of another patient also revealed spirochaetes in the myocardium by a modified Steiner's silver stain technique.
These findings give further evidence that LB is associated with chronic heart muscle disease.
PMID: 1915460 -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Could exercise actually be bad for some healthy people?
A well-known group of researchers, including one who helped write the scientific paper justifying national guidelines that promote exercise for all, say the answer may be a qualified yes.
By analyzing data from six rigorous exercise studies involving 1,687 people,
the group found that about 10 percent actually got worse on at least one of the measures related to heart disease: blood pressure and levels of insulin, HDL cholesterol or triglycerides.
About 7 percent got worse on at least two measures. And the researchers say they do not know why. . . .
. . . They found it was not related to how fit the people were at the start of the study, nor to how much their fitness improved with exercise. . . .
. . . . Dr. Kraus said researchers needed to figure out how to tailor exercise prescriptions to individual needs. . . .
. . . Dr. Lauer said that if nothing else, the study pointed out the need to know more about what exercise actually does.
``If we are going to think of exercise as a therapeutic intervention, like all interventions there will be adverse effects,'' he said.
He said, ``There is a price for everything.''
- full article at NYT link above
- and hundreds of reader comments
----------------------------------------
Yes, around 300 comments before mid-day. Sadly, mostly from those who do not think about those who really can't tolerate exertion - for a variety of reasons.
And, most sadly, many hateful comments about those who are out of shape, with hurtful assumptions as to why.
One problem may rest with the opening sentence in the article:
"Could exercise actually be bad for some healthy people?" (end quote)
I wonder just how thorough of an exam was given to all the participants? How many might have adrenal problems, liver problems, neuro dysfunction, or undiagnosed stealth infections?
Knowing what I know about what lyme can do to a body has taught me that there is so much more to this picture of exercise tolerance.
They also did not call upon the few experts who have seriously studied exercise intolerance. Too bad. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I just posted this at another thread on this topic and thought the exchange would be nice over here, too. -------------------------
Some of us can't grasp anything so lifting weights may not work. Just be sure to not irritate tender joints and tendons.
If lifting weights is not an option (or to add to that)
there are other ways to approach non-aerobic exercise. Tai Chi or Qi Gong can be very helpful and surprisingly strengthening.
Not sure about how Pilates might work for those with joint or tendon troubles but that is also worth looking into. A good instructor can help with alternate ways or suggest certain wrist braces, etc.
"Restorative" yoga, too.
Walking, even just strolling, is a vital exercise as well. Gentle dancing . . . do things you enjoy and can do without equipment at various times of the day, at a whim. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In response, I'm glad to see SixGoofyKids quickly replied (she is a Pilates instructor) --------
Pilates is not only fine for people with tendon trouble and joint problems, it's beneficial because it strengthens the muscles around the joints. People think of it as being like yoga, but it is not.
Both can be done on a mat, however, the vast majority of pilates is done on equipment that provides either assistance or resistance depending on the exercise.
If you go for a semi-private or private lesson the pilates instructor can really tailor the workout for you.
I would look for a studio that offers classical pilates (they will brag about it on their website if they do) or are PMA certified. You want an instructor with more than average training to be able to cater to your needs.
Pilates is good for a Lyme patient because much of it is done lying down in the beginning, so you're not using energy just to stay upright, yet you're still getting solid strength training.
It's also good because by design it is full body every workout. Another benefit is it reaches the deepest muscle groups rather than only superficial.
And, it is not cardio until you are a super-advanced student.
It fits Dr. B's guidelines perfectly.
I found it to be so beneficial in helping me reach remission that I am now an instructor.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com
=================
SGK came back to answer much more detailed questions for those unable to make a fist, grasp with their hands or otherwise with joint problems - and how to safety learn PILATES for strengthening.
posted
How did all of you find out about your heart problems? What were your symptoms?
Posts: 463 | From Sandusky, Ohio | Registered: Jan 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
jlf,
I think that most of those with lyme - if they have specific heart symptoms - address it with their LLMD since many regular doctors and even cardiologists are not aware (or fully aware) of how lyme and TBD affect the heart.
The tests early in this tread show how when getting an echo cardiogram down, it's best to have that both lying and standing but most of the time, it's done just lying down and that can miss some things.
Sure, there can be cardiac symptoms that might be independent of lyme and, in that case, a good cardiologist may be of help.
Still, with someone who has lyme, it's best to first talk to your LLMD. THEY will know how to proceed &/or to whom to make a referral.
Certain medicines that a cardiologist may prescribe may not work or could make lyme worse. They may be fine but it just depends on so much. A LLMD MUST be in on all Rx decisions.
For some with lyme, a stress test would NOT be a good thing. Nor the chemical counterpart for those who can't do the treadmill. This is why your LLMD should weigh in all all tests well in advance.
And you should also listen to your body. When suggested I do a stress test, I knew my body could not do it. I was right. I passed out on the treadmill and, just by luck, was not seriously injured or my clothes caught in the machine.
I told them I kept passing out from the slightest increase in walking and they did not believe me. I tried to get a good computer reading from my heart so they could SEE what was going on but my body just could not do it.
That day cost me about 2 months, flat in bed. Still, it probably took many similar experiences before I really checked in and sort of "asked" my body what it could do regarding pushing, etc.
When told I should then do the chemical stress test, I knew I could not stand the endocrine push that it would create.
A different doctor, though at that time I did not even know yet that I had chronic lyme - well, a different cardiologist did a TILT TABLE TEST. The technicians did it wrong.
They did not tell me that as I felt weak and that my legs might give out that I should not pump my legs. That's just something I learned to do on my own, out of instinct.
But, when the doctor came to check, he said that ruined the test results but he was convinced by my symptoms (which he believed when others did not) that I had NMH.
too tired to explain NMH but it's common with lyme - it's in posts way above. Since I could not tolerate the Rx, SEA SALT each morning was the key. And adrenal support. Hawthorn also make a nice help.
I also had various holter monitor tests to check erratic heart rhythm but that was inconclusive. Still, I KNEW my heart would beat all out of synch at times. Unless it can be seen in a test, though, these things are usually dismissed.
And not one doctor even mentioned magnesium. Years later - after the lyme diagnosis - I learned about magnesium. That could have saved me so much confusion, fear and heartache of rejection.
Again, magnesium made a world of difference with symptoms. I've since learned that there's so much I can do for myself.
MAGNESIUM is the best friend to the heart. MANY symptoms can be from magnesium deficiency.
Often, magnesium, fish oil, CoQ10 or other nutrients can help ease symptoms that may not have so much to do with the heart itself but with one of the nervous systems or the endocrine system that would be driving rhythm, etc.
Cardiac support is vital, indeed, for everyone who has lyme. Just as liver and adrenal support is, too.
If you have a specific concern, do talk to your LLMD. Otherwise, the detail in this thread may help with basic support and then you can talk to your LLMD about what would be best for you.
Good luck. -
[ 07-17-2012, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Someone in another thread described exercise intolerance from what should be fairly routine non-aerobic workouts in a gym. True, anyone can go too fast when beginning all this but -
- for anyone who is considering joining a gym, this detail in my reply over there may also be of help:
- As you recently joined this gym, the place itself is suspect, too.
The lights - probably fluorescent - are not good for ANYone but can be especially draining for those with lyme & co.
The chemicals used to wipe down the equipment, others' scented products, the off-gassing of equipment itself - the padding and vinyl covers - flame retardants and petroleum products . . . .
Cleaning chemicals for the floor, bug spray (if used) . . . soaps in the rest room or showers and
all the other stimuli: visual; auditory; etc.
All that can be a drain, even if you don't lift a finger.
I know my suggestion will not be a welcome one but, it seems to me that you need to stay away from that place and do similar weight training (you don't really need fancy equipment) in your home or other environment where you KNOW you are fine.
Then, you can get a sense if there is anything in the gym environment that is burdening you.
If you like the company of others in the gym, invite a couple friends to come to your place and create your own little group.
But, be wary of ANY equipment, even yoga mats can be toxic. See what you have around your home that can serve as weights.
A professional may be a good guide here for a few home visits. Just tell them not to wear scented products.
You might also consider PILATES, TAI CHI, or QI GONG. -
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posted
keebler.. my landlord was explaining to me why fluorescent lights bother some people..
They actually flash constantly .. but you can't see it. Your brain can though!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96239 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CherylSue
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Member # 13077
posted
good info, Thanks! I'll check out the pilates.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- TuTu - yeah, those fluorescent lights can cause some terrible sensations for many with inner/middle ear or seizure issues.
And, I have to wonder if they aren't also huring others who may not even be aware of their impact. Those with irritability, anger, confusion, etc.
On another note,
Exercise Intolerance just came up in another thread. As there are many posts about that here, I wanted to add as I'm reminded of this:
VESTIBULAR (inner/middle ear & balance) ISSUES can also cause someone to not be able to exercise as they'd like.
There have been long stretches of time where I could not even stretch any limb as it caused my head to move and that worsened vertigo and vomiting.
This seems to be more prominent in those with vestibular fistulas but there are so many other considertions in the thread below.
Massage therapy can help those in such a situation so that the body tissue, muscles & tendons gets moved manually while the head can remain as still as possible.
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- EXERCISE INTOLERANCE is discussed in several posts above. Adding to those, a new entry:
EXERCISE INTOLERANCE DUE TO MUTATIONS IN THE CYTOCHROME b GENE OF MITOCHONDRIAL DNA
[Twelve authors ] July 13, 2004 -
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WPinVA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33581
posted
I was the one who posted about feeling awful after light exercise in the gym. So I took Keebler's great advice and tried doing light yoga at home.
HUGE difference. I did need to lie down for a while afterwards and I even fell asleep briefly. But then, I felt great. Great! Did it again and same thing. And bonus, my six year old likes doing it with me.
My amazingly supportive hubby found a very gentle beginner yoga video on itunes and that's what I've been doing.
I'm glad this came up because I've been delinquent in not doing it for the past couple of weeks due to holiday busyness and I really need to get back into it.
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Keebler
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posted
- WPinVA,
So glad to hear this. Thanks for the details. Makes my day.
You've created your own little "yoga circle" right there. I love that your child enjoys this with you and that your husband is on board, too. What a guy!
If you want any professional assessment or guidance, some yoga instructors may come right to your home -- and if you gather a few friends and their kids, all chip in for the fee.
I'm thinking someone of her style would be very nice for those of us with issues of overstimulation. You might contact her and see who she may suggest.
Her DVDs are very good, too, though I've only seen her on PBS.
A pulmonolgist [just told me that] "is notorious for causing heart arrhythmias."
Discussion in this thread also touches on the errors and deception in the way side-effects of many drugs are reported - so that they can be approved for market and increase profits.
Antidepressants cause bradycardia and heart block in GD 13 rat embryos in vitro. (April 2012)
Excerpts:
. . . . One drug, trazodone, caused arrhythmia consistent with blockade of the hERG (human ether-a-go-go related gene) potassium channel. . . .
. . . The least margin of safety was seen with the tricyclic antidepressants and the serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitor trazodone. . . . (end excerpts) -
[ 05-12-2013, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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& Some "Natural" Flavors (that are not at all natural and actually just MSG by another name) -
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Keebler
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- By James Gallagher, Health and science reporter, BBC News - 29 May 2013 -
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
I had a friend who died of a, what doctors called, a heart infection. She had lyme also. I firnly believe lyme killed her. She had no heart problems until lyme. She wasnt even 50..
Infection my foot....doctors dismissed her lyme issue...
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