posted
p.s. Disturbedme, when sending to the lab for analysis, we didn't do the incubation thing for that set of plates. We just sent to lab. They will then incubate it according to their specific lab protocols and then analzye it for species. It usually takes 7-10 days for them to grow it out and then analyze.
I only know about the pre-lab incubation process because that is what my LLMD had me do so he could see what was growing in my living environment.
There is one lab who has mold plate pictures on their website. With some careful analysis comparison it can give you some idea about species types, but in no way should substitute for a definitive lab analysis to correctly identify species.
emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338,
I agree with you. If a leaky gut is causing you to not absorb nutrients then it would seem to me that you would rather treat what's causing your leaky gut to begin with.
And since you have elevated IgG antibodies to Candida I don't understand why your doctors aren't treating you for Candida.
Did you have elevated IgG antibodies to any other fungi/molds such as Aspergillus or Penicillium?
If so, then you might talk your doctor into prescribing you a broad spectrum anti-fungal drug such as Voriconazole or Itraconazole. Those drugs can kill several molds/fungi/yeast such as Aspergillus, Penicillium and Candida all at the same time.
I do know that molds such as Aspergillus Stachybotrys and Penicillium are considered to be more harmful to your health than is Candida but it still seems to me that your doctors should be addressing the Candida issue as well.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Also, for Candida albicans you might want to try the herbal compound Kolorex.
Kolorex is made from the herb Horopito and it contains anethole/polygodial. Polygodial is just as effective at killing Candida albicans than the anti-fungal drug Amphotericin B.
posted
Emla thank you so much for all the info to help me with the Candida issue!! So kind of you to post all the links to help me, thanks.
I definitely have to figure out how to treat leaky gut. Would very much appreciate any links you or anyone has on healing leaky gut.
I don't know why my doctors are not all over the leaky gut/candida thing. That seems huge to me to get under control.
They seem more concerned about the severity of mold. I understand their concern after reading all the health dangers about mold.
I still don't know about Stachy yet; that lab is being run now. Lab was backlogged on Stachy tests.
I had very high antibodies to most of the others, including Aspergillus and Penicillium.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Dear jam338, Thank you for the tips! I know my father will not buy the items, but maybe I could if I get the online job I have been trying to obtain. Moving to a new place would be best, but I doubt the government will help. I will contact the local housing authority and see if there is anything they could do. Mom and Dad are so determined to stay here no matter what, but being 26 years-old and suffering like this is miserable.
The truth about mold is terrifying. So many people just close their eyes and cover their ears. Your doctor is correct. Stachybotrys, Penicillium, and Aspergillus are the primary ones to watch for. "Forensic Files" had an episode about it. A family down in Georgia lost their home to toxic mold.
Two of the three family members were debilitated completely by it. The young boy became handicapped due to the exposure, and his father experienced brain damage that cannot be reversed. His memory impairment was so extensive, there was no way the man could ever return to work. Happily, the family did win a lawsuit against the insurance company. A jury awarded them many millions of dollars.
I fear my damage will be as bad as yours if I do not get out of here. Thank you for the compliments! I research something all of the time. Awareness is extremely important. Honestly, it never seems to matter how much research I do on anything, because I am written off as a hypochondriac or OCD by relatives.
Dad is one of those people who automatically knows everything. You know how those people are. Talking to them is like talking to a brick wall, except the wall at least listens. My parents' memories are poor, and I cannot stand to lose my intellect. It is all I have left!
My bedroom is loaded with dust. Part of this is due to the bunny, but he has to stay put. Borax is certainly an option. The ceiling in the living room is in bad shape. We had a strange teal-colored mold growing there. Mom and Dad think Kilz destroyed it all, but I doubt it.
We had a leaky roof, and there is no telling what all is there. It appears to be showing through again. Our bathroom is another hot spot. The shower and above it tend to have a lot of mold. Even if it is not toxic, I still am allergic. Also, having severe Candida overgrowth further complicates things. According to my research, it is impossible to recover from Candida while living in a home with mold.
Our downstairs bathroom has had mold under the sink area. However, the Kilz seemed to prevent it from returning. The main area of the basement concerns me, because underneath the carpet, it "sweats". Whenever it rains, the concrete underneath the carpet creates a moldy odor. I suspect there is leaking in the window or near it as well, possibly even behind the wood panels.
My room may have mold in it due to the window sliding down all of the time until Dad nailed it shut. On top of tornadoes and floods, we also have earthquakes. Lucky us, right? Although there does not seem to be any odor, the dust is still a concern since I am allergic. Since they have lived here, we never had the air grates cleaned. Mom and Dad say it does not make a difference, but that is not true.
We had a miniature vaccuum with a HEPA filter, but it no longer works. I will keep the air purification systems you recommended in mind. There are a couple of Oreck Air Purifiers we were using for a while, but need to find out which filters they take. I do think Dad is probably not changing the filter as much as he should. It is bad enough everything smells like smoke from his cancer sticks.
Having Multiple Chemical Sensitivity makes a major problem of living here. I probably spend most of my time in the kitchen, since I do not always sleep as much. I do believe we should take better care of our bedrooms. Getting rid of dust and dust mites will help tremendously. Spending time in the basement makes me drowsy, and I used to believe it was the EMFs from the computer. Now I realize the mold may be the actual trouble.
My brother is fortunate, he does not live here. He moved out many years ago. We are more than 7 years apart in age. Doing whatever I can to clean up my room is all I can do for now. If I can find out about the filters and get replacements for the Oreck units, they can go in the two places I spend the most time.
Citrisafe sounds interesting. That is true about the mold. Dead spores are just as dangerous. It takes only a single spore to generate a new colony. The next thing you know, there are a trillion new colonies. We had mold growing in our toilets for a while, and that is how I learned about that. Research is your only source of information. Professionals who clean up the mold must wear hazmat suits due to the mold being so deadly.
Dead mold spores are equally as toxic as living ones. Breathing any of them in is dangerous. It should be against the law if someone sells a home knowing it contains mold. Do not worry, I will be vigilant. I shall not waiver in my quest for health.
At this point, I am not sure if I have a genetic factor. It would not be a surprise if I do. Have you ever seen a toxicologist? That is where my classmate went. You must be able to clear it out of your system. If you have not been treating Candida, this may play a role.
I understand the environmental sensitivity factors. I have always had MCS. Perfumes, scented lotions, colognes, soaps, new carpeting, leather, cleaners, and even ink in magazines and books bother me. Sometimes they make me dizzy, other times they nauseate me. When they installed the new furnace in February, the smell of the glue came through the grates and made me feel strange. Every little thing seems to irritate my system.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Hi Jam, Yes, I've had my MSH and leptin measured. MSH is less than 8 and leptin is 3X's normal. The problem is there is no way to increase MSH according to what I've read and been told. It may return to normal after all the factors have been dealt with and mycotoxins are out of the body.
One doctor I consulted with, supposedly a mold expert, also said there is no way to increase MSH because the drug that could be used to do it is not available in the U.S.. He doesn't do anything more than CSM and actos from what I can tell. Not an expert in my view since that is only one step.
Unfortunately, I've been at your level of disability off an on for 20+ years. Long before I had any known exposure to mold. This last major relapse coincided with mold exposure though. I've had some improvmement with lyme treatment but I think the mold issue may be slowing progress way down at this point.
Jam wrote: I think (but not sure)DrS's test on C3a/C4a tests mycotoxin levels.
My understanding is that those are immune system markers - not a measure of mold antibodies.
I have one of Dr. S's mold remediation books but it's not very helpful. He also had a link (not google ads) to a mold professional who was selling info on mold remediation and other mold info. I bought his series and that was helpful.
Just a mention, he states that borax should be mixed with distilled water so that the minerals and other contaminants don't interfere with the mold killing action. Same for TSP (trisodium phosphate). He also has you mix up to 1.5 pounds of borax with 1 gal distilled water for cleaning walls. Makes a paste but is very effective for killing mold.
Not sure if mold on the wall means there is 10 X's more behind the wall. My husband climbed into the attic and looked where the leak had been and the wall had no visible mold. Mold does have tendrils though that grow into the wall which makes it pretty much impossible to kill it once it is inside the wall.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
TerryK, I remember now you mentioning (and me commenting, duh) about your low MSH on another thread. Brain is like sieve, sorry.
Thanks for the info on mixing the borax, especially about the distilled water. I think hubby and I have not previously taken that part serious enough. More in relationship to my internal protocol regimen where supplements are supposed to mixed with distilled water. That of course has nothing to do with your comment on distilled water. Just saying it made me think about something else that we might need to reconsider about.
Hubby has been just mixing my supplement things with tap water, though the doctor said do with distilled water. Our biggest consideration is there are no minerals in distilled water, and all my lab testing shows I have substantial deficiencies in nutrients and minerals. I eat well so I think that is the leaky gut/candida factor revealing itself.
On the 10x's issue, just saying what all these mold remediation DVDs have consistently said, all by different companies. Interviews with microbiologists, doctors, home inspectors, mold remediators. I have no idea if they are right or now.
In our case, we can not see any visible mold at all. I suppose that is a good thing, but clearly we have mold behind the walls. There is no way my antibodies could be this high without exposure. And the source of my exposure has to be my house because I am bedridden most of the time.
At this stage, I have been focusing most of my learning time on how to test our house. Left the body blood testing to my docs as they seem to know what tests need to be done. I know the names of the blood tests they are doing, but don't yet fully understand each test or what it is for.
As each test is done and results are in, the ensuing discussions with my doctors help me learn more. I will continue to share as I learn from them.
Thusfare, the only mold related body testing done is the Esoterix mold panel. The rest are on a lab order here waiting for me to be able to get the lab draw. Not an easy thing for me in my condition. But, hope to get it done this week. Had planned to do it today when hubby takes me for an IV treatment, but I screwed up and forgot to fast for one the additional tests they want checked on insulin levels.
Thanks for the additional mold resources link. I think we can never have enough, and it is important to learn from all sources as not all experts agree. We have learn as much as we can, and make our own best informed decision about what makes sense and hope we get it right.
We are definitely going to need carefully evaluate the post remediation clean up product options. Every inch of the interior should be thoroughly washed down and dried out, and painted before I can safely return.
Since I have developed MCS on top of it all, it will take time for the fumes of the chemicals, paint, construction materials to dissipate enough where I can safely be here. Everything needs to off-gas, or whatever they call it. Find harmony balance with nature and my body is what I call it.
My husband went into the attic as well. He saw nothing. He is pretty observant, but that is not to say he didn't miss something. He now wants to ensure we have a professional home inspection with someone he knows and trusts and see if that guy sees something he missed.
My doctors keep saying it doesn't matter, quit looking for it, you know it is there, you know where the water damage happened, remediate that area asap. The issue for us is we want to know for sure what type of mold it is.
For the doctors, they say they know what type of mold is from my antibody blood tests. I know they are right so maybe we are going in circles. But, my husband will need help with the remediation process. He can't do it all alone and have daily caretaker responsibility for me as well.
The contractor wants to do his own testing to know what kind of mold it is because of his own liability with the safety of his workers. They are obligated to test. We understand that.
We found the DrS mold remediation books helpful to some extent, but way over priced. All his books are expensive. For example, the babesia book was $35 for a paperback.
His mold remediation books are an informational slowwwwwwwwwww drip process that reminds me of services of one of my doctors. Good information, dribbled over time at a very high price.
The books separately written by his co-author, a mold remediator, are better, but still a slowwwwwww drip process where he will start with information on something, then say "see our sister publication entitled........ for more information". By the time it is done you have paid $100 to buy all the books to get the cross referenced information. Very cheesy process. But, the information is worth it.
Mold is critical. It is credible information at a price. Same with the DVDs we have purchased, each one over $100 except for one which was around $60.
Much of the information is online somewhere. Some of you have wonderfully shared links to those sources which should help others learn, thank you.
In our case, we are in mold crisis and need the information quickly. Hubby doesn't know how to use a computer so it is all up to me, and I am the one with brain problems.
My neuro problems won't let me navigate many unfamiliar websites. It overstimulates my brain, worsens all my symptoms. So, the DVDs were vital to us. It is something hubby and I can watch together and actually see professional mold remediators demonstrate what needs to be done and hear their reasoning with benefit of voice inflection and body language to ascertain what is really critical and what is just cya info.
All the website info helps, thank you. I am reading little bits of them as I can.
One thing I have definitely learned in all of this (lyme and mold) is I have to educate myself and take responsibility for and manage my own health care.
Doctors know a lot, and thank God they are there. But, they don't know everything. No one does. Especially not with mold.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338, are you currently taking any anti-fungals to kill off the Aspergillus and Penicillium mold within your body?
Also,if your doctors think that Aspergillus or Penicillium mold might be causing your neuro symptoms then you might want see if your doctors would prescribe you a course of Voriconazole.
Vfend (Voriconazole) is one of the few anti-fungals tha is capable of crossing the blood brain barrier while at the same time being highly effective against Aspergillus and Penicillium molds.
Although, you would want to also take some mycotoxin binders while you're taking the Voriconaziole.
And mycotoxin binders differ in what mycotoxin they can bind too. Most mycotoxin binders are not capable of binding to every single different kind of mycotoxin there is.
So, taking a combination of several different types of mycotoxin binders such as activated charcoal, cholestyramine, bentonite clay, zeolite etc. may work better.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Dear TerryK, Thank you for the links and information! I will make a note of the Borax solution. I knew Kilz would not destroy the mold. Mom and Dad may have used bleach solution prior to applying the Kilz. Still, bleach may not do the job. You still leave dead spores behind that are dangerous. Whole new colonies can grow practically overnight.
posted
Emla999, thanks for the treatment suggestions! Thusfar, they don't have me on anything for any antifungals for the molds! That troubles me, and I don't understand why not.
I have compounded CSM, and they want me to start that. But, that doesn't kill anything right? It is just a binder to pull stuff out I think.
I wonder why none of these doctors seem to know what you have just told me with all these RX treatment options??
My yeast problem has substantially worsened the last 3 days. I now have vaginal yeast symptoms with pain. I have not been on any ABX so it didn't come from that.
He said try the Nystatin, and that it treats Candida in the gut, but should help the vaginal area as well. He said I not only have candida in the gut (and vaginal area) but also have it in the blood (Esoterix test).
He said he hesitated to prescribe a stronger antifungal for the candida in the blood because he isn't convinced that antibody exposure is current infection. He said it could be from exposure 10 yrs ago. [shaking head] I don't think it would be at this high of a level, if it was from 10 years ago.
This naturopath is very young and learning. Has missed the mark a few times with me (as have others). It happens. No doctor gets everything right 100% of the time. They are human; I get that.
He is definitely not mold or lyme literate. A nice guy and tries to helpful.
Emla999, thank you so much for helping me learn options about this. You have been extremely helpful.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I don't have these issues as you guys do but I found that Yeast Cleanse by Solaray was better than Fluconazole for candida in my experience.
It's strong stuff & some people may have reactions to it.
Sorry that you are going through all of this. Sounds like a nightmare.
Be careful of bleach... it's carcinogenic.
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338, I don't understand why your doctors haven't prescribed you anti-fungals either.
Jam338 said:
quote: He said he hesitated to prescribe a stronger antifungal for the candida in the blood because he isn't convinced that antibody exposure is current infection. He said it could be from exposure 10 yrs ago. [shaking head] I don't think it would be at this high of a level, if it was from 10 years ago.
I agree with you. I seriously doubt that your IgG levels would be this high if it was from 10 years ago. Is that even possible????
Oh, and by the way Candida albicans can produce a mycotoxin called GLIOTOXIN.
I have found that finding a doctor that truly understands chronic mold toxicity and their related mycotoxins is even harder than trying to find an LLMD. Maybe we need to start a list of MOLD LITERATE MEDICAL DOCTOR's aka MLMD.
And yes, Cholestyramine just removes the mold mycotoxins from your body but it will not kill any mold/fungi/yeast that you may have within your body.
So, just taking Cholestyramine alone may not help you all that much. Because the fungi/molds that may have been producing the mycotoxins were not killed and thus they could still be producing mycotoxins.
If the fungal infection is inside of your body then you will most likely have to take some kind of anti-fungal drug to kill the fungi/mold/yeast or herb.
At the same time you should also take mycotoxin binders such as Cholestyramine,activated charcoal zeolite etc. to bind up all the mycotoxins.
***You should take the anti-fungals a few hours apart from taking the mycotoxin binders though.
posted
I have found that finding a doctor that truly understands chronic mold toxicity and their related mycotoxins is even harder than trying to find an LLMD. Maybe we need to start a list of MOLD LITERATE MEDICAL DOCTOR's aka MLMD.
Emla999, I totally agree. It is really hard to find a mold literate doctor. A MLMD list for this would be fabulous!!
BettyG has already asked me to please send her the names of the docs I have been working with. Maybe others can please her yours.
I also sent it to Metallic Blue with comments on my experiences thusfar, though a new patient with all.
BettyG and Metallic Blue, just to clarify so that others know, are y'all establishing a formal Literate Mold Doctor list that others can send to or request information from? Thanks:)
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam,
i added your info on MOLD ll dr. tonight, and sent to others w/lists.
so YES, we will collect that info too since so many of us have MOLD problems.
mike aka metallic blue collects almost everything; he'll have to speak for himself, but i'm sure he will share; he's OUTSTANDING on that!! xox
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Here's a list of "MOLD LITERATE MEDICAL DOCTOR's" aka MLMB.
posted
I wish some organization would do a mold DVD like Andy did with UOS. It definitely needs to be done. If anyone knows Andy or has access to him, please suggest it as a consideration.
Oprah announced yesterday Dr. Oz will have his own TV show starting in September. I really think (hope!) he may venture into some of the "sacred cow" areas of medicine; i.e., lyme disease.
He wants to leave his legacy to medicine, and taking on tough controversial issues would definitely give him that platform.
He already had Andy on his XM radio program where they feature about lyme disease and UOS DVD. Oz stayed too much on the fence for my liking, but did at least do the show on it. Not many will.
If he were to take on this issue publicly on his TV show, it could pop lyme disease wide open. In my opinion that would be a great way to start his show. What you should know and what the government isn't telling your family's risk about Lyme Disease!!
We should all be encouraging him to do it. It could be perceived as too risky to start with but maybe an option for later. I sure hope so. And, hopefully he will do a show on mold sickness.
I have no idea through what mechanism/website we would do that. Probably through Oprah's website, but we did that recently lobbying her to do a show herself.
Also, call: 1-866-OPRAHXM. Tell them you want more coverage on Lyme Disease and Toxic Mold Sickness.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
ok, the lab analysis of our mold plate testing through Immunolytics Lab arrived today.
The lab says they found: -Pencillium -Cladosporum -Geotrichium
The first question I have for the lab is why they don't identify the TYPE within the species subset. Maybe that is a longer much more costly culture to define or available only through certain laboratories.
There are multiple species subtypes for each of these types of mold. Those were not identified. Not sure why not. Will post more after I have the consult with the lab.
The kitchen had the most mold colonies and had toxic Penicillium. The kitchen is an area that has had long term water damage.
The hot water heater closet shares the same wall but opens to the wall exterior onto the deck. We had a slow long term leak in the hot water unit.
It wasn't leaking enough to be visibly seen through the door. We had no idea it was leaking at all. It all leaked back and was absorbed into the insulation in the wall.
Penicillium can cause PERMANENT brain damage, liver and kidney cancer. Scary.
The report tells us how many colonies grew in each of the rooms tested (4). Wishing now we done every room.
Of course, these are very likely NOT the only types of mold spores in our house. We likely have more.
Mold is like Lyme, lots of false negatives. However, we didn't get any false negatives.
Once I again digest the report and formulate my questions, I'll call the lab for the free 20 minute consult. Likely next week.
I had 2 huge blood draws today for tests to help guide customizing detox IVs that are the maximum possible for my body but within the limit line of not wrecking my system further.
One of my doctors says I will need to do weekly IVs for about 3-4 months, perhaps twice a week near the end.
I am surprised I had any blood left. I have never seen so many tests checked on one lab order!!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Emla999 thanks for the mold literate doctors link. Its a small list huh?
Hopefully, others can send BettyG and Metallic Blue names of any of your doctors who you feel are mold literate. I have already sent them the names of 3.
One of the mold doc names I sent (also mentioned previously on this thread) will work exclusively by phone consult and is $100 for an hour.
She recovered herself from mold sickness so that would be a good and reasonable place to start with medical discussions to educate yourself on mold.
I have no connection with any of them other than a being a very sick severely disabled patient who is consulting with them. I am a new patient to all 3, so I have not had long term care with any of them. All 3 are alternative/holistic oriented docs.
I heard there is another doc in the Santa Barbara, CA area. I will see if I can learn more and will send his info to Metallic Blue and Betty. I don't know if he does phone consults though, but he does take insurance and is lyme literate. He is a M.D. but very alternative/holistic and will not treat with ABX at all from what I hear.
Just saying there are options out there!!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338,
A documentary film about toxic mold induced illness has already been made. The documentary film is called "Black Mold Exposure".
posted
Thanks Emla999, we seem to be oddly synchronized with each other huh? lol
I'll check them out, thank you again for your continuing contribution ot . Continuing to look for good mold sickness awareness training option DVDs. Very different from mold remediation DVDs.
I need educational things I can give out my young docs who are still on training wheels while learning about lyme and mold.
Also, I need information on leaky gut and Immune dysfuntion; and, mitchodrial dysfuntion.
One step at the time..............
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Thanks to all who continue to contribute to this thread to help! Please keep up the good work!!!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam,
fyi, we've worked hard on a DR. OZ/OPRAH program with under our skin andy wilson, etc. there.
there was a BIG meeting of head honchos meeting in NYC 1-2 months ago; they were to decide on this. we've heard NOTHING since; so it's fizzled out.
when my contact isn't so sick and posting, i'll ask her more what happened.
andy wilson was to be on the dr. show around 1 month ago, and was waiting to hear confirmation news; but apparently didn't get it! he wasn't going to announce anything until it was OFFICIAL.
are you noticing the doors keep CLOSING for us even with good contacts?
greta van...... her cable talk show too; she said she'd done one, and then didn't follow thru.
so frankly we've done as much as we can and have had LYME patients involved in some of this decision-making on the larger scale.
so just to fill you in briefly on what has tried to be done with the most powerful, vocal lyme patients we have.
REMINDER, ROCKY MT. SPOTTED FEVER will be featured on THE DOCTORS TV SHOW, ABC, i believe at 3 pm CENTRAL time TOMORROW, 5-15 !! *************************************************************
I just copied the list of mold drs. from that site also and sent to all who have llmd nationwide lists just before coming here.
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posted
BettyG, hmmm, ya know thinking more about this, if the talks with Andy was 1-2 months ago, Oprah and Dr. Oz had to have already been talking about Oz getting his own show at that time. Those things don't happen over night and take planning. Maybe the Oz Show deal got struck about that time and they decided to take the Lyme show and move it to his show instead of hers.
I know I am being optimistic here, but let's all give energy to that being what happened and maybe it will come about!
I heard a story once about a little girl who wanted a puppy. Her parents kept saying no. She saved up her allowance until she had enough to buy a leash though she had no puppy.
She dragged the leash around the house and every where. When people asked her why, she said I am practicing for when I get my puppy. Eventually her parents broke down and bought her a puppy.
The guy who told this story on TV swore it was true and said it illustrated the power of positive thinking. Whether it is or not, let's hope so.
Let's envision Dr. Oz's first show on Sept 14 or soon thereafter will be about lyme disease. Maybe Andy will get that phone call he is waiting for;)
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Benefect kills 99% funguses.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam, delightful story!! i totally agree.
darn; no RMSFever show on the dr. today!! how disappointing when the person who was interviewed sent out an email saying he would be on today!
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338 said,
quote: I need educational things I can give out my young docs who are still on training wheels while learning about lyme and mold.
Also, I need information on leaky gut and Immune dysfuntion; and, mitchodrial dysfuntion.
Dr.Thrasher is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to toxic mold, mycotoxins and other immune suppressant substances. So, he might be able to recommend a place where you can get educational material for your doctors.
And Dr. Thrasher usually replies to questions that are sent to him via email.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Here's a video that discusses the health effects that toxic mold has upon the body and its treatment.
posted
Emla999, thank you for the great links for learning more! I haven't been around because we relocated to a hotel last night. I am worn out physically and emotionally. Barely able to move all day.
It is hard enough just been sick with this disease, but being so sick and displaced from my home is about more than I can bear.
At home I had all my supplements and meds organized and things set up where I could manage on my own for a couple of hours while hubby went grocery shopping.
With my cognitive and physical standing problems everything needs to be organized and kept in its place so I can find things quickly to minimize time on my feet.
So, I am really worn out today, but hope to be able to check out the links soon. Thanks!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Dear jam338, Just concentrate on getting away from that mold! Is it possible for your husband to scrub up anything you need to bring with you like supplement bottles? It is good you are organized. I am trying to figure something out for us. It is heartbreaking thinking your home is poisoning you.
There are so many memories, and the worry about finances. Still, I must decide whether I want to live or die. Mold kills! At least now I may be getting somewhere. Meanwhile, take care!
Dear Sparkle, You are right. Bleach is carcinogenic. I was thinking the same thing. The fumes alone are an issue. There is bound to be something safer. What about Borax?
posted
Jin, borax does kill mold. There is a post a few spots back about making a borax paste. I think it was Emla999 or Terry K, who posted about it, and I have read about it the mold books we purchased.
We are out of the house now. In a hotel room. The contractor will be coming here tomorrow to meet with us as I can not get out of the bed any further than the bathroom.
Based on all the warnings I have read about inadvertent transport of mold spores with cross room contamination, we likely have transported a few a few spores with us in our clothes, suitcases, etc. but, we brought one of the HEPA air filters and keep that going 24 hrs a day. I am going to have hubby pick up some Borax, and order the Benefact organic mold cleaner/killer. I should have done that already.
Not the best situation, but at least I am in a less threatening environment. Maybe we will need to change rooms later.
Hubby is thinking about renting a motorhome for us to put along side our house while the work is being done. That would at least help me to not feel so displaced from my home.
We plan to also put a tent in the backyard for use on cooler days. The temps here have jumped to the 90s, and we don't feel that my fragile system can tolerate much temperature shocking. So, we are evaluating backup plan options now.
It is a very hard time for me, and I have cried for the 2 days we have been here at the hotel. The physical process of packing just a few things and my medicinal arsenal has now caused me to crash.
I am praying that my weekly Glutathione+ IVs on Wed will help bring me up a little. My doctors want me to start CSM right away, but I am terrified of being made worse. I am barely able to get myself back and forth to bathroom or bathe as it is. Critical functions for being by myself during parts of the day while hubby is running back and forth to take care of things at the house with plants, mail, laundry, etc.
Good luck to you Jin, you will sort your way through your situation. Awareness is 80% of the battle, and you have educated yourself well about the risks of mold.
Just keep envisioning yourself in a mold safe environment and your internal compass will guide you to it and it to you. Remember that one can not hit a target they can not first picture. Mental imagery is a facinating internal radar guidance system that we all have onboard. We just need to learn to use it and keep it tuned up through thoughtful meditation. Something I hope to do more of and is what is helping me get through my difficult days here.
I had hubby pack my CD player and brought soothing relaxation CDs and I listen to that during the day when I am here by myself while I lay on the infrared mat. I cried less today so maybe it is helping me.
The only reason for adding this to this thread is let you see how bad mold can disrupt your lives. Don't let this happen to you. Don't risk becoming displaced from your home with no where to live at a time when you may be at your sickest and least capable to do anything about the problme.
Do your home inspections and correct any problems now. Remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There could not be more truer words about mold. We are learning this hard the way. Don't let this become your situation. If you have been following this thread, then you are probably wondering about your mold risk situation. Get it checked out now.
[ 05-19-2009, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: jam338 ]
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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disturbedme
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Jam, just wanted to update the pictures I have of the mold we found in our apartment. We sent off the air vent/duct sample and should know the results of that this week sometime. I will post the results of that when we get it. We need to send these in as well. $30 for each we send in though, so it's getting pricey and we don't really have the money!!!
Here they are. A few different types it looks like. The mold from the air vent/duct sample looked just like the black/green mold spore on the bathroom plate in this picture. They just kept growing and growing though, so they got very big. These continue to grow as well.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Disturbedme, so glad you are testing to see if this is any way connected to illness and a barrier to healing.
From the pictures, it suggests the potential source area is the bathroom. There could have have been an under the sink plumbing leak, toilet overflow problem, or around the bathtub/shower.
Do a careful visual inspection of the bathroom. However, not seeing a problem doesn't mean it isn't there. Most apt owners do superficial repairs (less costly) and paint or tile over it.
Your pictures look very similar to ours.
Our lab results are back from Immunolytics lab, as follows:
Types of Mold n Our Gravity Mold Test Plate Analysis Report:
-Penicillium -Cladosporum -Geotrichium
I don't understand why Aspergillus was not in the report. Maybe it just didn't bloom during the last one hour test period. Not sure. The green fuzzy mold with outside ivory border (in your plates and ours) look consistent with pictures of aspergillus mold I have seen online. However, maybe the Cladosporum or Geotrichium mold might look similar. Don't know. I haven't yet looked them up. We were too busy moving out, and then crashed from the move, along with severe depression setting in.
Today I have had to pull myself out of it and get back to the mold books. We are meeting with the contractor this evening and I need to know more detail about what questions to ask him, especially regarding subcontractors specific certifications, bonding, insurance, etc.
Anyway, back to your pictures. It will take only 7-10 days for you to get the lab results and you will know more. You definitely will not have a false negative report as you have already seen that mold grows in the culture.
So, you will know that you have those particular molds and probably others that are not showing in the mold gravity plate testing.
Here is why I say that. Certain molds are more detectable through different types of testing whether it be surface sampling, air sampling, or gravity plate testing.
The type of testing that you and I have done thusfar is gravity plate testing. It means the petri dish is capturing whatever mold spores that gravity of air allows to fall down through the air onto the petri dish in that one spot.
For example, theoretically speaking, if you had several petri dishes in one room it is conceivable that you could capture different spores in different locations of the room. Of course one would not test that way as it is simply cost prohibitive to do so.
But, it does demonstrate why testing can produce false negatives and there still be mold spores somewhere in the room. Mold does not particularly have an "even distribution" system throughout the air. The gravity plates collect for one hour of time out of a 24 hour day.
One could say well just leave the gravity plate out longer than an hour, but I wouldn't do that without first having a consultation with the lab as they take the exposure time into consideration when they conduct the analysis. Not following instructions could skew the results of your report.
The same is true for air spore trap sampling. It only captures an area of air, but that test is only for 5-10 minutes at a calibrated level of input, usually 15 liters per minute, but can vary based on type of equipment used. Each manufacturer has their own specifications.
So, what I am trying to say, is you know have mold of some sort. Not all mold is dangerous toxic mold, so don't panic until you have the lab results, but also know that some toxic molds aren't likely to show up on a mold gravity plate test.
For example, stachybotyrs, black toxic mold (the mother of all toxic molds) is very improbable to show up in gravity plate or air spore trap testing. Why? Because Stachy is heavier than most mold and doesn't float around in the air for long.
Due to its weight, Stachy falls to a surface (carpet/wall/furniture) rather quickly. The most probable form of testing to capture Stachy is surface sampling. How one surface samples is using tape lifts, where you follow a specific protocol process, which is basically a 3" piece of tape and carefully lift up the contents and then have the lab analyze it.
Another form of surface sampling is "swabbing" where you use a protocol process and solution and swab an area about the size of a folded business card. Insert it into the vial and mail to the lab for analysis.
But, for surface sampling you pretty much need for the mold to be visible so you know where to do the tape lifts or swabbing.
Surface sampling is typically done where you can see visible area of water damage and suspect mold area. For example, if you look under your bathroom sink, take a good whiff to see what you smell. Does it smell musty/moldy? If so, there has probably been water damage at some time. Not an issue for 75% of the population, but a huge issue if you are in the other 25% and currently chronically sick!
So, you could do tape lift or swab sampling under the sink if you see any suspect areas. Perhaps a cheaper process might be the instant pen process ($15 online) where you can test a suspect area and it will instantly tell you whether it is mold or not. Of course, to find out if it is dangerous mold, you still need to have it lab analyzed.
We haven't yet purchased the instant pens but will do so if our home inspector doesn't have them for when he goes under the house to inspect the crawl space area. My doctor says many qualified home inspectors have and use them. My guess is that varies state to state.
The instant pens are purchaseable through Dr. Mary Beth Short Ray's Mold Help online site at http://www.toxic-black-mold-syndrome.com/MOLDHELPSTORE.html. I can't by the picture who the manufacturer of the pen is, but you can probably google around and compare the picture or there may be other manufacturing sources. Just google "instant mold test pen". I think we will use Dr. Mary since not only does she provide the lab's analysis but also gives her medical opinion on how the mold type may affect your health risks and how to treat it. Personal preference. Go with the cheapest you can find it!
The reality is though, if you see a suspect area you want (NEED) to know whether it is dangerous mold or not.
With the instant pen, it costs $15 to buy and $30 to analyze, so a total cost of $45.
If you do the tape lift sample, the test strip is free (plus $5 shipping) and $30 lab analysis, so a total cost of $35. If testing several areas, that $10 difference between the two options could add up. Ten tests would be $100 difference.
There are air spore testing kits you can order and do your own at home. Not cheap, but cheaper than a home inspector to do it.
Both of the above websites (Dr. Mary and the homemoldtestkit.com site) have home air spore kits. So does examinair.com, one of the products that Dr. Mary recommends and has a click through link to on her site.
Disturbedme, in your situation, if one of you are chronically ill, then you need to carefully think about relocation options. You are renting so that makes it easier. The mold test results should resolve any issues about getting out of your lease agreement.
If it doesn't, there are things you can do about that where your landlord will be more than happy to let you out. In fact, they will be pushing you out the door. Just tell them you are going to start handing out copies of your lab report to neighbors and suggest they look into this problem as it is circulating in the shared HVAC system.
My guess is if you bring that up, you are as good as out without a peep.
The challenge will be in finding a rental without water damage history. Not easy. Most have it. Look for a newer rental, it is less likely to have it (maybe).
Well, gotta get back to my mold books and get my questions finished up. Hang there, you will have answers soon:) Be thinking about your next step options in the meantime.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Well, the contractor just left the hotel room. He arrived with 2 mold remediators in tow, so 3 of them and hubby and me in a small hotel room with me in jammies in the bed.
They have never had to visit a prospective client while in the bed, but doing so has clearly impacted all of them. It was obvious that all 3 are well onboard with the seriousness.
I quizzed all 3 on the areas I had learned from the mold books and DVDs, they passed with flying colors so I am sure they know what they are talking about. All certifications are in place as they should be.
In fact the head remediator has been sick from mold from doing previous jobs. He was very interested in my situation as he has the genetic markers himself and has not changed professions. He has a great doctor who works with him and puts him on a protocol plan prior to starting each job. So far it is working for him. Seeing how bad it can really get might make him rethink that decision at some point.
I could see the worry on his face with how bad he could have gotten. He said it has been a year since he recovered, but never got as bad as me.
We dragged out the results of recent mold plate testing and my body blood test results. I didn't feel awkward in sharing my blood test results and all of them were facinated in it and didn't know that it was even possible to blood test for it.
So, I feel like I helped them learn something new that might help someone else they may encounter along the way who is sick yet maybe all external testing is showing false negatives.
Now, he sees that no matter what the external tests say, that my body testing shows there is mold exposure, and that it has to come from my house. I have been bedridden for most of the past 4 years.
The senior remediator's role was originally to handle the cost quotes and answer questions on behalf of the company,etc. After 2 hours however, he said he was very interested in my situation (I think because of the blood tests and seeing how bad I am), and that he wants to personally handle all the house inspection and testing and wanted to start tonight.
We sure didn't expect that kind of response. It was already 6:30 pm, long after the end of their work day. He told me husband he wanted to go back to the shop and pick up the equipment and meet him over the house to do the testing.
So, they are over there right now. I am very nervous about all this, and wondering how it will go.
For those reading this thread, please say a little prayer for us, thank you.
I think we have finally been guided to people who can responsibly help us. This company is nationally certified and usually specialized in high end custom home restorations (like victorian homes etc), but I think they will handle any size job no matter how big or how small.
This is one of the companies I had previously researched backgrounds on through their certification affiliation with DKI (Disaster Kleenup : http://www.disasterkleenup.com/ The national
We just lucked out that our contractor/neighbor has personally known and worked with this guy for over 20 years. He says the guy has impeccable integrity and is very fair in his price estimates. I sure hope so.
So, the plan is to do the next level of testing with air spore trap testing. Then, later, they will open up the walls and see what is behind there and do actual tape lifts and swab testing on any areas that look suspicious.
He knows now what type of molds he is looking for after seeing my blood tests. And, if it doesn't show up in one test then they need to keep checking because it is in there somewhere or it wouldn't be in my blood.
The whole point in continuing with the air spore trap testing is that it is important not to document every stage of the process and that it was professionally handled correctly by an accredited mold remediator.
If we didn't, it would substantially hurt our property resell value as we couldn't prove it was properly remediated. Now, we will have all the documentation necessary from the best company in this area who has a great reputation with realty companies.
They know if he did the work, it was done correctly. He won't do half assed work. He can't. In order to maintain his certification through the DKI national affiliation they require that very strict standards be followed. That is reassuring for us.
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I also wanted to post something more from one of the DVDs I ordered. It outlines the proper breathing standards of mold particle counts per cubic center meter of air.
It is called the "S520 Mold Remediation Standard" @www.iicr.og. I haven't yet had time to study it, but doesn't look like I will need to since this guy seems to know all about it.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Ohhhh, one other thing, sorry my brain isn't working so clear after 2 hours of meeting with so many people. He told me about the name of another mold literate doctor in Northern CA. The guy he was referred to. So, I will get that name to BettyG and Metallic Blue for the list. The doctor is in Sebastapol, Ca and the initial consultation with him is $400. If anyone wants more info on him please PM me or Betty or Metallic Blue. They have started a good list of mold aware/literate docs across the US.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
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jam,
praying this mediator can clean up this mess right, and so glad he listened to you and saying HE'D PERSONALLY DO THIS!!
prayers to jam/family so jam can get her health back and out of bed! xox
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Dear jam338, Thank you so much for your information and encouragement! I have asked the angels to help you and your husband. Be sure your husband wears a mask when going into the house! My parents are in complete denial, so it is all up to me. I understand how upsetting this is, because being out of your home makes you so sad.
Considering your emotional strain and illness, I wanted to help. At least my brain is working fairly well. I did some detective work for you. Those three molds are not normally as problematic for people with healthy immune systems, but those who are chronically ill it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Here is the information I found and their web addresses: Cladosporium spp. Link ex Gray, 1821, de Hoog (1995)
Cladosporium is a dematiaceous (pigmented) mould widely distributed in air and rotten organic material and frequently isolated as a contaminant on foods. Some species are predominant in tropical and subtropical regions [533, 602]. Also, some Cladosporium spp. were isolated from fish and were associated with findings of infection [265]. Species
The genus Cladosporium includes over 30 species. The most common ones include Cladosporium elatum, Cladosporium herbarum, Cladosporium sphaerospermum, and Cladosporium cladosporioides. Synonyms
See the summary of synonyms and teleomorph-anamorph relations for the Cladosporium spp. Among Cladosporium spp., Cladosporium herbarum has a teleomorph, Mycosphaerella tassiana. Pathogenicity and Clinical Significance
Cladosporium spp. are causative agents of skin lesions, keratitis, onychomycosis, sinusitis and pulmonary infections [462, 1847, 2202]. Macroscopic Features
The growth rate of Cladosporium colonies is moderate on potato dextrose agar at 25�C and the texture is velvety to powdery. Similar to the other dematiaceous fungi, the color is olivaceous green to black from the front and black from the reverse. Most of the Cladosporium spp. do not grow at temperatures above 35�C [462, 602, 2202]. Microscopic Features
Cladosporium spp. produce septate brown hyphae, erect and pigmented conidiophores, and conidia.
While the conidiophores of Cladosporium cladosporioides and Cladosporium sphaerospermum are not geniculate, those of Cladosporium herbarum have a geniculate appearance. In addition, conidiophores of Cladosporium herbarum bear terminal and intercalary swellings. Conidia of Cladosporium spp. in general are elliptical to cylindrical in shape, pale to dark brown in color and have dark hila. They occur in branching chains that readily disarticulate. Conidial wall is smooth or occasionally echinulate. Cladosporium cladosporioides produces unicellular conidia. On the other hand, those of Cladosporium herbarum are two- to four-celled. Cladosporium sphaerospermum produces elongate and septate shield cells which are also known as ramoconidia [462, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Brown (phaeoid) hyphae may be observed in infected tissue samples. Compare to
Cladophialophoraspp.
Cladosporium differs from Cladophialophora by having conidia with dark brown colored hila (scars). While Cladophialophora bantiana can grow at 42-43�C, Cladophialophora carrionii and many species of Cladosporium do not grow at temperatures above 35�C.
The monoclonal antibody, EB-A2 used in the commercially available latex agglutination kit to detect galactomannan antigen in sera of patients with aspergillosis may cross react with Cladosporium herbarum [1153]. Laboratory Precautions
Cladosporium spp. should be handled with care in a biological safety cabinet. Susceptibility
Very limited data are available on susceptibility profiles of Cladosporium spp.
Geotrichum is a yeast found worldwide in soil, water, air, and sewage, as well as in plants, cereals, and dairy products [301]. It is also found in normal human flora and is isolated from sputum and feces [1295, 2202]. Species
The genus Geotrichum includes several species. The most common one is Geotrichum candidum. Geotrichum clavatum and Geotrichum fici are among other Geotrichum species.
Geotrichum fici has an intense smell resembling that of pineapple [2202]. Synonyms
See the summary of synonyms and teleomorph-anamorph relations for the Geotrichum spp. Pathogenicity, Clinical and Environmental Significance
As well as being a colonizer of the intestinal tract, Geotrichum spp. may cause opportunistic infections in immunocompromised host and these infections are referred to as geotrichosis. The infections are usually acquired via ingestion or inhalation. Bronchial and pulmonary as well as disseminated infections and fungemia due to Geotrichum have been reported. It has also been isolated from infections resulting from trauma [62, 332, 716, 753].
Apart from its clinical significance, there are very recent claims on environmental damages that Geotrichum might have caused (go to article in the Telegraph). It has been blamed for destroying the aluminium and data-storing polycarbonate resin that are found in the structure of compact discs. This in turn led to discoloration of the disc, with the disc becoming partly transparent. The exact role of Geotrichum in this destruction process requires confirmation. Macroscopic Features
Geotrichum strains produce rapidly growing, white, dry, powdery to cottony colonies, resembling "ground glass." When disturbed on the surface, the colony becomes yeast-like or slimy. The optimal growth temperature is 25�C. Most strains either do not grow at all or grow weakly at 37�C [1295, 2202]. Microscopic Features
Arthroconidia and coarse true hyphae are observed. Blastoconidia, conidiophores and pseudohyphae are absent. Arthroconidia (6-12x3-6 �m) are unicellular, in chains, hyaline, and result from the fragmentation of undifferentiated hyphae by fission through double septa. They are either rectangular in shape or rounded at the ends resembling the barrel shape. Consecutive formation of arthroconidia and absence of empty cells that fragment to release arthroconidia ("disjunctor cells") are typical [1295, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Septate hyphae (3-6 �m wide) and rectangular to oval arthroconidia are observed in tissues infected with Geotrichum [462]. Compare to
Geotrichum differs from Scytalidium by having hyaline arthroconidia and from Arthrographis and Oidiodendron by lacking conidiophores. Unlike Malbranchea, Geotrichum produces arthroconidia by fission rather than by releasing them from disjunctor cells. While the arthroconidia of Coccidioides immitis alternate with empty cells, those of Geotrichum are consecutive. Unlike Trichosporon and Moniliella, Geotrichum lacks blastoconidia. Laboratory Precautions
No special precautions other than general laboratory precautions are required. Susceptibility
In vitro data on activity of antifungal agents against Geotrichum isolates are rather limited. Among the azoles, voriconazole yields the lowest MICs, followed by ketoconazole and itraconazole [2432]. While fluconazole yields very low MICs, some sordarin derivatives also show favorable activity against clinical Geotrichum isolates [1040, 1632].
For MICs of various antifungal drugs for Geotrichum, see our susceptibility database.
The standard therapeutic regimen for treatment of geotrichosis is not yet available. Amphotericin B with or without flucytosine could be considered as could itraconazole. However, prognosis of disseminated geotrichosis is usually poor, with a mortality rate as high as 75% [753].
With only one exception (Penicillium marneffei, which is thermally dimorphic), the members of the genus Penicillium are filamentous fungi. Penicillium spp. are widespread and are found in soil, decaying vegetation, and the air. Showing again how it is distinct from other species in this genus, Penicillium marneffei is endemic specifically in Southeast Asia where it infects bamboo rats which serve as epidemiological markers and reservoirs for human infections.
Penicillium spp. other than Penicillium marneffei are commonly considered as contaminants but may cause infections, particularly in immunocompromised hosts. Penicillium marneffei is pathogenic particularly in patients with AIDS and its isolation from blood is considered as an HIV marker in endemic areas. In addition to their infectious potential, Penicillium spp. are known to produce mycotoxins [1805]. Some Penicillium spp. have telemorphs included in genera Eupenicillium, Talaromyces, Hamigera, and Trichocoma. Species
The genus Penicillium has several species. The most common ones include Penicillium chrysogenum, Penicillium citrinum, Penicillium janthinellum, Penicillium marneffei, and Penicillium purpurogenum. Identification to species level is based on macroscopic morphology and microscopic features [531].
See the summary of species and synonyms for the Penicillium spp. Pathogenicity and Clinical Significance
Penicillium spp. are occasional causes of infection in humans and the resulting disease is known generically as penicilliosis. Penicillium has been isolated from patients with keratitis [581], endophtalmitis, otomycosis, necrotizing esophagitis, pneumonia, endocarditis, peritonitis, and urinary tract infections. Most Penicillium infections are encountered in immunosuppressed hosts. Corneal infections are usually post-traumatic [581]. In addition to its infectious potential, Penicillium verrucosum produces a mycotoxin, ochratoxin A, which is nephrotoxic and carcinogenic. The production of the toxin usually occurs in cereal grains at cold climates [1804].
Penicillium marneffei is a pathogenic fungus and specifically infects patients with AIDS who live at or visit Southeast Asia (Thailand and adjacent countries, Taiwan, and India) where the fungus is endemic [565, 2114, 2200]. Penicillium marneffei infections have also been reported in non-AIDS patients with hematological malignancies and those receiving immunosuppressive therapy [2456]. Penicillium marneffei infection, so called penicilliosis marneffei, is acquired via inhalation and results in initial pulmonary infection, followed by fungemia and dissemination of the infection [431, 803, 1926, 2114]. The lymphatic system, liver, spleen and bones are usually involved. Acne-like skin papules on face, trunk, and extremities are observed during the course of the disease. Penicilliosis marneffei infection is often fatal. Macroscopic Features
The colonies of Penicillium other than Penicillium marneffei are rapid growing, flat, filamentous, and velvety, woolly, or cottony in texture. The colonies are initially white and become blue green, gray green, olive gray, yellow or pinkish in time. The plate reverse is usually pale to yellowish [531, 1295, 2144, 2202].
Penicillium marneffei is thermally dimorphic and produces filamentous, flat, radially sulcate colonies at 25�C. These colonies are bluish-gray-green at center and white at the periphery. The red, rapidly diffusing, soluble pigment observed from the reverse is very typical. At 37�C, Penicillium marneffei colonies are cream to slightly pink in color and glabrous to convoluted in texture [531, 1295, 2144, 2202]. Microscopic Features
For species other than Penicillium marneffei, septate hyaline hyphae (1.5 to 5 �m in diameter), simple or branched conidiophores, metulae, phialides, and conidia are observed. Metulae are secondary branches that form on conidiophores. The metulae carry the flask-shaped phialides. The organization of the phialides at the tips of the conidiophores is very typical. They form brush-like clusters which are also referred to as "penicilli". The conidia (2.5-5�m in diameter) are round, unicellular, and visualized as unbranching chains at the tips of the phialides [1295, 2144].
In its filamentous phase, Penicillium marneffei is microscopically similar to the other Penicillium species. In its yeast phase, on the other hand, Penicillium marneffei is visualized as globose to elongated sausage-shaped cells (3 to 5 �m) that multiply by fission.
Penicillium marneffei is easily induced to produce the arthroconidial yeast-like state by subculturing the organism to an enriched medium like BHI and incubating at 35�C, in which after a week, yeast-like structures dividing by fission and hyphae with arthroconidia are formed [531, 1295, 2144, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Intracellular arthroconidial yeast-like cells are observed inside the macrophages in infected tissues [531]. Compare to
Paecilomyces
Gliocladium
Scopulariopsis
Penicillium differs from Paecilomyces by having flask-shaped phialides and globose to subglobose conidia; from Gliocladium by having chains of conidia; and from Scopulariopsis by forming phialides. Penicillium marneffei differs as well by its thermally dimorphic nature. Laboratory Precautions
No special precautions other than general laboratory precautions are required. Susceptibility
Available data are very limited. For Penicillium chrysogenum, MICs of amphotericin B, itraconazole, ketoconazole, and voriconazole are acceptably low, while the denoted MICs for Penicillium griseofulvum are higher than those for Penicillium chrysogenum [2432]. Notably, Penicillium marneffei isolates may yield considerably high MICs for amphotericin B, flucytosine, and fluconazole and relatively low MICs for itraconazole, ketoconazole, voriconazole, and terbinafine [531, 1094, 1152, 1489]. Further data are required to provide a more precise susceptibility profile for various Penicillium spp.
For MICs of various antifungal drugs for Penicillium, see our susceptibility database.
Amphotericin B, oral itraconazole, and oral fluconazole have so far been used in treatment of penicilliosis marneffei [431, 1371, 1926]. Oral itraconazole was found to be efficient when used prophylactically against penicilliosis marneffei in patients with HIV infection [423].
I hope this helps! I could not find any really good pictures. The descriptions are pretty good, though. They were very useful. These sound like the molds you were describing in the petri dish.
posted
BettyG, thank you so much for the sweet and thoughtful prayers. I do believe with all my heart that prayer helps. Thank you for helping me.
Jin, bless your heart as well for the prayers and all the information you researched and posted to help me, thank you! I am very touched by your kindness to reach out to help me research. I am so overwhelmed with sorting all this out. So, your research greatly helps me, thank you:)
The worst of those particular 3 molds that turned up on our gravity plate testing is the Penicillium which is a very dangerous mold to those in the 25% mold susceptible group. It can cause permanent brain damage, liver and kidney cancer.
We are a bit mystified why some of the other toxic mold antibodies in my blood labs didn't manifest in the gravity plate testing. But, we know gravity plate test can miss lots of mold spores, it is just the nature of the process.
Maybe air testing will reveal more. Most certainly once the walls are opened up with accessibility to do actual surface sampling will reveal more.
More on our further mold testing process: They didn't get all the testing done last night that the remediator wants to do. Hubby said he was very methodical and efficient how he goes about his work. He is coming back on Saturday to do some more specific testing in additional areas he identified as possible suspect areas. Plus they will crawl under the house etc on Saturday.
Last night the initial inspection involved overview diagnostics. For example, hubby said he used a moisture meter tool and could immediately tell we have a big moisutre problem in our downstairs shower. We did not expect that would be a suspect area at all. That shower has only been rarely ever used at all. Only when my family comes out from the east coast which is rare; 4-5 times in 20 years.
However, when we relocated me downstairs because of the original problem in the upstairs master bath area, I started using the downstairs shower!
So, it was meant to be for me to start using that shower, so this area would be detected in the home inspection process!
Hubby now recalls that when our original contractor built the house he cut corners on that bathroom. He did not use the green "wonder board" that is recommended for behind all showers. He used only regular sheetrock. A huge no no, but legal, in the shower area.
It is a tile shower, and over time any and all tile groutlines will develop hairline cracks and allow moisture (water) in behind. That is when mold starts to grow!
Over 20 years ago we didn't know the contractor had done that until it was too late. We made the financial decision to not rip it out and redo it since it would be a rarely used shower. What a mistake that has turned out to be, but who knew it could lead to this???
There is no visible problem with that shower. It still looks as good as good as the day it was built. All the clear glass and brass still looks brand new, so who would have guessed with so little use that there would be a problem in that shower??? We sure didn't.
The point in sharing all this is to emphasize (again) that you can't tell if there is a mold problem just by looking. You need to test.
The area in that bathroom that we knew would be a problem is around the toilet. The wax seal failed and caused a slow water leak problem.
If we had proceeded on our own with the remediation process with just hubby doing the work, we would have entirely missed this problem with the shower. It takes the right tools to detect the moisture content in the walls, and the right person operating it who will be truthful and truly knows about safe percentage levels.
So, we are really glad that for right now it appears that we did our homework well and have chosen wisely about our process thusfar. Knock on wood!
So, maybe we will soon have more definitive answers about our house mold crisis.
In the meantime I am hoping the healing of my body from toxic mold can begin now that I am physically removed from the source of the mold.
Maybe now I can get well enough that my LLMDs feel more secure about starting to treat my lyme disease and babesia.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It appears to deal with mold, we need the Th2 immune pathway to kick in.
For those persons with lyme as well as those persons with certain genes (who have mold triggered asthma), the Th1 pathway is predominant.
The gene involved is:
B16 Arg/Arg which renders some people ***resistant to an arginine deficiency.***
If you have that gene AND lyme, any mold exposure could be a HUGE problem.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Marnie, thanks for the information. I remember one of my LLMDs mentioning the importance of Th1 and Th2, but he said it as though he thought I already likely knew it. I don't.
I didn't want to derail him and forgot to ask for more details later.
Is there a lab test to evaluate B16 Arg/Arg? Or is that part of the testing panel for Th1/Th2 functioning? Assuming a Th1/Th2 testing panel even exists. Seems like I have read about it being tested somehow. I would greatly appreciate more information if you or anyone knows more in this area.
I am hoping that more of my many lab tests are done, but still have more to get drawn at Quest.
Hubby keeps forgetting to check the fax machine when he goes to the house, and that is where my blood test results come in. Of course, to my doctors as well. But, they always authorize a fax send to me so I can review and prepare my questions in advance of appt to discuss results.
I have about 50 labs right now that we are waiting for results so that they can prepare compounded detox IV's for me.
Right now they are giving me weekly IVs of Myer's Cocktail with Glutathione to get me started. The first one helped a little, but then we had the move to the hotel, a crash/setback, so the second one didn't help as much. We'll see how the one today does for me.
Marnie, can you please clarify more about what you mean "resistant to an arginine deficiency". I assume that a "deficiency" in anything is not a good thing as it symantically means an insufficient level of something. So, a resistance to a deficiency sounds like that would be a good thing, but if that is the case, then I don't understand its association with a problem.
I hope I am making some sense with my question. Sorry if I am not. Trying to get showered/dressed with rest breatks for my trip out for the weekly IV.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Too much arginine -> too much NO which the body will try to counter in many ways.
"Nitric oxide in the small amounts made by the body..."
Some is good and needed, too much is not.
The balance is off.
People with that gene look to have excess arginine (don't let the level drop).
Genetic testing can be done to see if you have that gene and may need to counter the excess via diet/supp.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Marnie or anyone else,
I have read that by taking magnesium you can make a fungal infection worse.
posted
Emla999, seems like to me that I have read post warnings about magnesium, something about lyme loving it and it feeds lyme, which is theorized why many of us might be deficient in it.
Some have said when we supplement magnesium we may be feeding the critters we are trying to kill. Not sure if that is similar with fungal infection or not.
I take about 1200 mg of Malic Acid twice a day, and if I don't my muscle spasms (especially trapezius area) are much worse. There were some studies done on the benefit of Malic Acid. Said it could bring relief within 48 hours which I thought was a ridiculous statement as most supplements take several weeks to notice improvement.
However, my sister and I both noticed significant improvement within the first week of taking it. If I inadvertently run out of it, my neck and shoulder spasms return with a vengance. They never completely go away, but do significantly improve.
Without the Malic Acid I live an ice bag on my neck and shoulders.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Terry K, you said you had used essential oils/diffuser to help with mycotoxin treatment. I have been looking at the Thieves products (oil and air pump diffuser (http://www.secretofthieves.com/thieves-diffuser.cfm)
On another thread (essential oils) you mentioned Thieves was one of the products you used. I am confused whether you used an internal Thieves product or the external diffuser process, or both? Can the same products be used either?
As you can tell I know nothing about essential oils, but want to learn. I read on the Thieves website where it supposedly can be an organic way for treating mold. Perhaps similar to the Citrisafe products but obviously using different product formulations since both are apparently patented processes.
Just a footnote reminder for others though that killing mold organically is not a substitute for remediation. You still have to remove the dead spores no matter what. Still need to remediate.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338,
Yeah, I have also heard some people say that taking magnesium supplements actually made their Lyme Disease symptoms worse.
But I can't help but wonder if those same people were actually just making a fungal infection/yeast worse????
The link bellow seems to indicate that magnesium can possibly make a candida infection worse.
"strong ionic magnesium solutions greatly increase rhinovirus, herpesvirus and Candida albicans in vitro, and appear to worsen these infections in humans. "
But it seems as though a lot of people are deficient in magnesium, so whats a person to do??
Maybe fungal infections are part of the reason why so many people are low in magnesium nowadays..??
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Anyone know for sure if LapCorp does this test (the Esoterix antibody mold test)??? I went to my LLMD today and tried to get the tests written up and whatnot, but they could not find the codes for it and they even called LabCorp and LabCorp couldn't find it and said they'd call them back. Sooo... anyone know for sure and know the RIGHT diagnostic codes and whatnot?
Thanks so much!!!
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
jam, You can use some oils internally and in the diffuser but not all. I believe Young Living oils are very pure and most can be used internally. Any oils taken internally should be used with great caution. Also put them in capsules.
I saw a doctor who was supposed to be a mold expert and he told me to take thieves oil internally. He was suprised when I told him I was already using it. I was suprised that he knew about it. LOL
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Disturbedme, yes it is definitely through LabCorp, but it is an Esoterix Lab test. I think maybe LabCorp must have bought Esoterix Lab, not sure. My lab test order says Esoterix Labs with no mention of LabCorp on their letterhead. However, when the bill came in it states LabCorp. When the blood draw was done it was at LabCorp.
Another board member, CD57 had previously told me when she contacted Esoterix she was told there are regional panels depending on what area of the country you are in. You might want to google for Esoterix Labs, get their phone number and call for more info.
However, be aware that some of us who have called Esoterix had hit/miss success with them. It all depends who answers the phone. I would say ask to talk directly with a lab technician, not just talk to the clerical administrative person who answers the phone. That seems to be where the disconnect is in my opinion.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Terry, thanks, through what guidance document source did you first learn how to take the oils internally? Anything I could get on that is why I am asking, especially since you said use caution with it.
Also, Terry did you get the air pump diffuser like the one on the Thieves website? The little glass ice cream looking globe thingy on the brass stand? If yours is different, can you point me to a source comparison online for a picture? Thanks:)
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
It woudl breat if someone who calls the call could get the regional panel numbers with diagnotist codes and kindly post them on the thread for others.
I need to call the lab tomorrow to see if Hubby's test is done....will try to ask on the regional codes and post what I learn.
I went to LabCorp for the MSH test wtih Traysalol kit only. They didnt have a clue what I was aksing for or why. they were out and he said htye owuld have to reorder it. and they would call me on arrival. That was a week ago, no call. The technician confided no one there had ever heard of a traysal kit or done one....that wasn't inspriring.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Dear jam338, You are so welcome for the information on those molds! Since my brain seems to be one of the few parts working properly, I may as well use it! I am perplexed, because my 31 kDa IgG confirmation test came back negative. I have an IND on my IgM 41 kDa, and a + on that same band on the IgG. Can I rule Lyme out now?
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
jam - Here is a copy of my response to you about the diffuser question that you asked on the essential oil thread.
I have 2 diffusers. The first one I bought from Young living. They only sell one kind and it is as you describe - glass on a brass stand. I then found another one that is the same type but much more powerful - can saturate a room much better. I think it works better for the mold and mycotoxin applications. This is the second one that I bought and the one that I would recommend. I have no financial interest in any of the products that I mention. http://www.diffuserworld.com/aromapro--essential-oil-diffuser-nebulizer-p-9.html
Sometimes I have them both going, particularly when working on mycotoxins.
jam asked: through what guidance document source did you first learn how to take the oils internally?
It was mentioned to me first from the person who sold me the oil. Didn't pay much attention as I was not inclined to take essential oils internally. Then my herbalist/muscle tester mentioned it to me. Then I read that the oils can be taken internally in several places on the Young Living website. http://www.youngliving.com/oils.faces
Also, the doctor that I saw for mold issues told me to take Thieves oil internally. He told me to put a few drops in a capsule. I've never taken any other brand internally. I would proceed with caution on any essential oils that are taken internally because they can be very strong.
There is a Dr. Richard Lloyd who recommends a product called Detox oil used with a diffuser to kill mold. He is very involved in rife. He is not a medical doctor. I've been reading his inforamtion for a number of years and I think it is good information but may be a bit out there for some people who are not comfortable with alternative methods. http://www.royalrife.com/mold_toxins.pdf
He recommends peach tree extract for mycotoxin binding. I haven't tried it yet but plan to give it a try at some point. Scroll down to the peach tree extract.
My muscle tester/herbalist tested for my specific mold and came up with a program for me using essential oils to kill the mold and remove the mycotoxins. It seems to have worked but I haven't taken samples and sent them to a lab yet to be sure.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
As far as Labcorp and MSH testing. I called them ahead of time. It took them over a week to get the kit and get everything set up to deal with the testing.
I had to call them several times. Seems like some of the techs are better at handling new and unusual tests than others so if the people at the labcorp office that you are working with can't handle it maybe they can send you to one of their labs that can.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Terry thanks for all the help and such great info on essential oils and the diffuser. I am definitely going to give this a try. I haven't been muscle tested for it, but instinct just tells me that it will help me to some degree. I know you know what I mean.
Terry have you tried or noticed a difference in the delivery system of the daffodil bulb glass as opposed to Oil Drop plain design? Is it just aesthetics or is there a functional difference?
Also, instinct suggests that one should likely use a separate distributer glass bulb for each scent or does it matter? Just wasn't sure if it can be sufficiently cleaned with the closed design. The bulbs aren't horribly expensive so it seems doable.
I want to get a separate distributer base exclusively for our bedroom to use lavendar oil at night for hubby. He has been severely distressed with my illness and now the house crisis. He loves the smell of lavendar and likes putting the lavendar oil in a hot bath, says it helps relax him. So, I am thinking the diffuser might be just the thing to help him relax and improve his sleep.
Sounds like I should try and find someone near me who is knowledgeable about essential oils.
Terry, how long of a period do you run the diffuser? Every day? I am sure it might vary based on what you treating. For example treating mycotoxins vs just night time sleep relaxation.
Dr. Lloyd sounds interesting. Years ago prior to my illness I was hugely skeptic of alternative things. OMG has this disease change me and hubby in more ways than one. We have lost faith in traditional medicine, with the exception of a few doctors, and now I am looking more to ancient history options that have been known for thousands of years. There are doctors out there who have stayed in touch with all that. I am in pursuit of finding them now.
Pharmaceuticals have their place in medicine but they have manipulated themselves into being perceived as medicine, not just part of it.
I ordered a book that Bejoy recommended on Flower Remedies and feel there will be something in that for me as well.
Still in pursuit of finding someone with expertise in my area who can give guidance on either. I plan to ask my LLMDs if they know of anyone I can work with.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I found Myrrh essential oil very effective for mold in the lungs. It stopped the terrible cough. I don't use oils very much though, because they can interfere with homeopathics, which I use constantly.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Hey do y'all remember the once popular light bulb diffuser rings from the 70s/80s period? No idea if was effective or just a quick buck marketing tactic. It was promoted for fragrance inexpensive diffusing.
You used a little metal (brass?) ring. Placed it on a regular light bulb and then added a few drops of scented oil. I don't think it was quality essential oils at all. Just inexpensive scented oils, but is the delivery mechanism feasible???
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I don't like the lightbulb rings. They burn the oils and it stinks.
I didn't get fancy. I just put a few drops on a tissue and breathed it, and carried it around with me all day. I'd like to get a nice diffuser, but have not looked at them.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Hi jam, You asked: Terry have you tried or noticed a difference in the delivery system of the daffodil bulb glass as opposed to Oil Drop plain design?
I don't use the daffodil bulb. I have the oil drop design.
For years I used the essential oil lamp that uses a candle. You add water and oil and heat the water which dispurses the oil. Problem is that you couldn't get enough dispursion and I think a fair amount of the oil evaporates due to the heat. I wanted good saturation for the mold and mycotoxin issue.
You asked: Is it just aesthetics or is there a functional difference?
This is what they say on the website as a description for the daffodil design. I don't see a similar description on the oil drop design.
"The glass piece maintains control of diffusion by acting as a separator of oil particle sizes. Large oil particles are returned to the reservoir while smaller "air borne" particles escape through the top."
Probably means you get more dispursion into the room. The larger particles probably tend to settle close to the machine rather than into the air.
When I called diffuser world to ask about the daffodil design they said it was louder than the oil drop. We already had the Young Living with the oil drop design and it was loud enough so I decided to go for quieter even if it meant less dispersion.
You asked: Also, instinct suggests that one should likely use a separate distributer glass bulb for each scent or does it matter? Just wasn't sure if it can be sufficiently cleaned with the closed design. The bulbs aren't horribly expensive so it seems doable.
Not sure what you mean by closed design. I have one nebulizer for each diffuser. I clean with soap and water between oils and it works fine.
You asked: Terry, how long of a period do you run the diffuser? Every day? I am sure it might vary based on what you treating. For example treating mycotoxins vs just night time sleep relaxation.
I use muscle testing. I run oils and amounts based on that. The plan that my herbalist came up with for getting rid of mycotoxins with essential oils took continous running of the diffuser for 15 days in each room affected. I had to mix oils and change them at given intervals. It was a pain and not cheap. I also had to spray a mix of Grapefruit seed extract, Grapefruit essential oil, Quinine and Vinegar in vents many times over a number of days. Also had to diffuse in the rooms and wash the walls with it. This was after we killed the main strain of mold. She said there was another strain that had not been killed. Keep in mind, this is all via muscle testing. If I hadn't been using it for so many years with success, I would have never agreed to do this complex and expensive protocol.
jam wrote: Years ago prior to my illness I was hugely skeptic of alternative things. OMG has this disease change me and hubby in more ways than one. We have lost faith in traditional medicine
I *think* you mean modern medicine (specifically allopathic) rather than tradional medicine? Modern medicine has been around for about a hundred years. Traditional medicine has been around for thousands of years.
Many of us have lost faith in allopathic medicine and with good reason. We are often told initially that there is nothing wrong, it is all in your head because your blood tests don't show anything that we understand, see a shrink. We are ignored and even called crazy sometimes until we are too ill to function.
Then we are told that they don't really know what is causing our illness but they have some names that they've assigned to a group of symptoms (CFIDS, FIbromyalgia etc..) and we have one or more of those illnesses. Then we are given tons of drugs and told we will just have to learn to live with it. Uhhhh..... you don't know what's wrong but you want us to take lots of drugs and just learn to live with it????? Yes, don't bother looking for an answer or help because there isn't any!!! If we don't know the answer, nobody does!!! Pretty egotistical.
You wrote: I ordered a book that Bejoy recommended on Flower Remedies and feel there will be something in that for me as well.
I have many flower essences and use them for myself, my husband and our dogs. They can be very powerful if you get the right one. The descriptions that come with them are sometimes accurate and sometimes not so accurate. Again, muscle testing works well for this.
You might consider looking for an herbalist. I personally prefer one who muscle tests of course. LOL
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
This is good info. So JAM, you are using the Disaster Kleenup folks and recommend them? I will look them up. Perhaps you could share the name of your guys since we are both in the bay area? PM me.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Disturbed, my ordering LLMDs office sent me an Esoterix kit with his regional mold panel order form in it. When I took it to Labcorp for the draw (Labcorp owns them) they were mystified as to why I had the kit in the first place. So, just get a hold of one of Esoterix's test order forms and have your doc mark off which ones they want. (Or you can, I added a couple that weren't marked on my form that I wanted tested). Hee.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Sorry I have not been able to keep up on this thread. Haven't had regular access to internet. But, trying to keep up with reading here as I am able.
We moved from the house to hotel for a week and then into a close friend's motorhome in the driveway.
Very rough start with the motorhome adventure. 3 days without electrical or water. We finally had the motorhome set up correctly and with our essentials and all my supplements etc.
THEN--- we discovered a massive amount of MOLD in the bathroom cabinet!!! The motorhome is only 3 years and in great shape other than MOLD. After some investigation with a flashlight (best way for inspecting for mold), we found the water intrusion point. The sky light/roof ventilator.
The water damage area is very dry and the nails are rusted in that area. Clearly not recent damage. Due to surgeries our friends hadn't been able to use it at all last year so they had no idea about the water damage or the mold. And, of course it is out its warranty period now, and they didn't purchase exteneded warranty provision. Of course, now they are sick over it. They still owe about $65,000.
The impacted area is extensive. The entire shower wall. That wall is a shared wall with the reverse side being the kitchen with the microwave and stove on the reverse side of the same wall. All that will have to come out. I can not even imagine how much that would cost them to fix properly. Unfortunately, he is not handy and with his back surgery problems is in no shape to deal with it. He can't even make it up the step to come in to look at it. Poor guy.
So, after discovering the mold, we moved into our garage/backyard that night. Then, I came down sick with a horrible cold and sore throat within a day or two. I keep wondering can things get any worse, and then they do! I think I need to quit wondering!!!
TERRYK, thanks for all the essential oil and diffuser info. Terry I think you are right in that I might benefit from working directly with a herbalist. There is a herbalist who works closely with one of my LLMDs so I will inquire further at my next appt. Hopefully I will soon be more on my feet and able to get something ordered online. Your guidances will help me immeasurably with that, thank you.
CD57, here is the website of the company we are using:
We are dealing with Jeff Farley, who I think is the President. Thusfar, he seems good to work with. Definitely knows about the ins/outs of mold including sickness from mold as he has had it himself a couple of times. Only time will tell how it goes with them of course. It is still early in the process. But, the first meeting with him went great. It couldn't have gone any better. He spent time explaining things, very compassionate, very knowledgeable about mold, etc.
The company was highly recommended by our neighbor/contractor who has known and worked with them for about 20 yrs.
Their website says they serve 57 California cities:
Allendale, American Canyon, Angwin, Antioch, Bay Point, Benicia, Bethel, Island, Birds Landing, Bloomfield, Brentwood, Brooks, Byron, Calistoga, Clayton, Concord, Davis, Deer Park, Discovery Bay, Dixon, Elmira, Esparto, Fairfield, Hercules, Hilltop Mall, Kenwood, Napa, Nut Tree, Oakley, Oakville, Pacheco, Pinole, Pittsburg, Pleasant Hill, Point Richmond, Pope Valley, Port Chicago, Port Costa, Richmond, Rio Vista, Rodeo, Rumsey, Rutherford, San Pablo, Sonoma, Spanish Flat, St. Helena, Suisun City, Vacaville, Vallejo, West Pittsburg, Winters, Woodland, Yolo, Yountville, Zamora
Not sure if any of those are in your area or not, but they may be willing to venture out if not too far. These days with the economy and the severe hit to real estate and home building in CA, I can't imagine any construction oriented company turning down work.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam,
murphy's law still hitting you 2 hard!!
wow to move from hotel to motor home and then MOLD is in bathroom/water area! shaking head...
best wishes to you on your continuous problems; may god come and help you folks out getting you into a SAFE ENVIRONMENT. xox
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
A recent study shows that toxic mold is even more hazardous to your health than previously thought:
" And toxins produced by mold are more potent than was previously thought. It has now been shown, for instance, that mold toxins (mycotoxins) not only directly kill cells but can also affect immune cells in a way that increases the risk of allergies.
Even incredibly tiny amounts of these toxins can do this, as little as a few picograms (a picogram is one millionth of a millionth of a gram)."
Even tiny amounts of mold mycotoxins are considered to be EXTREMELY toxic!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
A recent study shows that toxic mold is even more hazardous to your health than previously thought:
" And toxins produced by mold are more potent than was previously thought. It has now been shown, for instance, that mold toxins (mycotoxins) not only directly kill cells but can also affect immune cells in a way that increases the risk of allergies.
Even incredibly tiny amounts of these toxins can do this, as little as a few picograms (a picogram is one millionth of a millionth of a gram)."
Even tiny amounts of mold mycotoxins are considered to be EXTREMELY toxic!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
BettyG, thanks for the support and prayers. I must admit at this point I feel "snakebit" for sure. I feel like I am in a living nightmare.
I hope that everyone is taking note of how devastational mold can become to someone with lyme disease. Please everyone, take preventative steps now so you don't risk having to go through this.
I am too sick to cope with or manage with this mold crisis. Problems with everything, and I do mean everything now. The stress is just unbearable.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i've been learning SO much from all of you contributing to this entire post.
thank you for sharing so openly what has happened to you and each step you took to resolve mold problems.
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
So sorry that you are going through such a horrible time jam. I hope things get better quickly.
On the bright side, you know why you are so sick now and can take steps to fix it. You are on your way up out of this nightmare!!!
Hang in there.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Jam, we got back the results from the lab who tested the mold in our HVAC/air vent in our apartment.
It was Cladosporium. Here is the picture of it again:
Of course those three colonies got bigger and bigger... but I didn't take a picture of them when they were bigger.
Here's another picture of the molds we found in our apartment.... AUGH:
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
OMG, the mold remediator just called my husband with the test results; stachybotyrs along with other molds. The nightmare just keeps getting worse. I am soooo stressed right now!
My husband is on his way over to pick up the lab report along with the remediation repair cost estimates. Needless to say this is going to be huge.
TerryK, thank you so much for the support. You are right, and I keep reminding myself every step of the way with this is a pathway to finding important answers. Although the answers we are getting are horrible and hard to cope with, we are finding the missing critical pieces to the puzzle of my illness.
I really need to find a local good muscle tester and herbalist to work with for the essential oils and diffuser. I just know that is part of my recovery journey.
I also need to figure out Bach Flower remedies to help my husband with his stress which is through the roof. He has never had balanced energy to start with, and the stress of this has thrown his system way off.
We received the results of his Esoterix Mold Antibody results and his levels were low to moderate (1 & 2) on many of the same molds as my test showed.
I think the difference is I have the mold susceptibility gene and he obviously doesn't. He isn't sick.
Some of my LabCorp tests are back with HLA DRB DQB results, but I don't know how to interpret them. C3a C4a and other results still pending.
TerryK, (or anyone) know what the 375 on MMP9 means??
[ 05-30-2009, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: jam338 ]
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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disturbedme
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Member # 12346
posted
omg..... I am so sorry Stachy is the dreaded 'black toxic mold'.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
DISTURBEDME, Cladisporium is one of the molds that came back on our mold gravity plate tests as well.
Cladisporium is a common mold and not one of the more dangerous toxic molds. However, it can create health problems, especially for someone with the mold susceptibility genetic factor. Especially if that someone also has lyme disease.
Here is a website with information on various types of mold:
These genera of mold are pigmented dark green to black in the front, and black on the reverse with a velvety to powdery texture. One of the most commonly isolated from indoor and outdoor air, Cladosporium spp. are found on decaying plants, woody plants, food, straw, soil, paint, textiles, and the surface of fiberglass duct liner in the interior of supply ducts.
There are over 30 species in the Cladosporium genus. The most common are C. elatum, C. herbarum, C. sphaerospermum, and C. cladosporioides. These fungi are the causative agents of skin lesions, keratitis, nail fungus, sinusitis, asthma, and pulmonary infections. Acute symptoms of exposure to Cladosporium are edema and bronchiospasms, and chronic exposure may lead to pulmonary emphysema."
I think you said your hubby has lung or breathing problems right? If so, and if he has the genetic factor, it could be possible that the mold might be contributing. You would need to check with a mold literate doctor to evaluate whether that amount of Cladisporium could be causing problems for him.
And, of course air spore testing will reveal more information than the gravity plate testing. Still waiting on hubby to arrive home with our lab results. I will be able to post more on how the two testing processes yielded different results for us.
Clearly a significant one was Stachybotrys, the most dangerous toxic mold of them all! It did not show up at all on our mold gravity plate tests. And, we did 2 separate sets of gravity plate tests!
The air spore trap testing doesn't always capture Stachybotrys, but it did in our case. I am guessing that once they open up the walls to survey further and excavate that they will find even more.
Once they open the walls up, then they will test using surface sampling tape lifts and swabs to find the safe clearance areas. Then, all the sheetrock and wood framing structure within the contamination area zone will be fully removed and replaced. All of those areas will have to be full containment protection and the workers in hazmat protection suits.
That is how dangerous stachybotrys, penicillium, and aspergillus is. It is a labor intensive and expensive process.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Disturbedme, more FYI regarding Cladisporium. Our new lab report (air testing) shows Cladisporium is more significant than the website in my above post tends to suggest it could be. You might want to check a few sources on it.
But here is what our report, through Wonder Makers Environmental Lab in Michigan, states:
"Cladisporium is typically found out of doors, but can grow indoors under the right conditions---usually water damaged areas. Exposure to any type of spore at elevated leves (over 500 c/m3) either for prolonged periods or for repeated short periods of time can cause ill health effects. The possible consequences of exposure to mold sporeas include developing asthma, allergies, hypersensitivity disease and severe respiratory infections."
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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All related to water damage!! Inspect, inspect, inspect!! <yeah, clanging that bell again for those who need another nudge>
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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