darn; no RMSFever show on the dr. today!! how disappointing when the person who was interviewed sent out an email saying he would be on today!
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emla999/Lyme
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Jam338 said,
quote: I need educational things I can give out my young docs who are still on training wheels while learning about lyme and mold.
Also, I need information on leaky gut and Immune dysfuntion; and, mitchodrial dysfuntion.
Dr.Thrasher is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to toxic mold, mycotoxins and other immune suppressant substances. So, he might be able to recommend a place where you can get educational material for your doctors.
And Dr. Thrasher usually replies to questions that are sent to him via email.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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emla999/Lyme
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posted
Here's a video that discusses the health effects that toxic mold has upon the body and its treatment.
posted
Emla999, thank you for the great links for learning more! I haven't been around because we relocated to a hotel last night. I am worn out physically and emotionally. Barely able to move all day.
It is hard enough just been sick with this disease, but being so sick and displaced from my home is about more than I can bear.
At home I had all my supplements and meds organized and things set up where I could manage on my own for a couple of hours while hubby went grocery shopping.
With my cognitive and physical standing problems everything needs to be organized and kept in its place so I can find things quickly to minimize time on my feet.
So, I am really worn out today, but hope to be able to check out the links soon. Thanks!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Dear jam338, Just concentrate on getting away from that mold! Is it possible for your husband to scrub up anything you need to bring with you like supplement bottles? It is good you are organized. I am trying to figure something out for us. It is heartbreaking thinking your home is poisoning you.
There are so many memories, and the worry about finances. Still, I must decide whether I want to live or die. Mold kills! At least now I may be getting somewhere. Meanwhile, take care!
Dear Sparkle, You are right. Bleach is carcinogenic. I was thinking the same thing. The fumes alone are an issue. There is bound to be something safer. What about Borax?
posted
Jin, borax does kill mold. There is a post a few spots back about making a borax paste. I think it was Emla999 or Terry K, who posted about it, and I have read about it the mold books we purchased.
We are out of the house now. In a hotel room. The contractor will be coming here tomorrow to meet with us as I can not get out of the bed any further than the bathroom.
Based on all the warnings I have read about inadvertent transport of mold spores with cross room contamination, we likely have transported a few a few spores with us in our clothes, suitcases, etc. but, we brought one of the HEPA air filters and keep that going 24 hrs a day. I am going to have hubby pick up some Borax, and order the Benefact organic mold cleaner/killer. I should have done that already.
Not the best situation, but at least I am in a less threatening environment. Maybe we will need to change rooms later.
Hubby is thinking about renting a motorhome for us to put along side our house while the work is being done. That would at least help me to not feel so displaced from my home.
We plan to also put a tent in the backyard for use on cooler days. The temps here have jumped to the 90s, and we don't feel that my fragile system can tolerate much temperature shocking. So, we are evaluating backup plan options now.
It is a very hard time for me, and I have cried for the 2 days we have been here at the hotel. The physical process of packing just a few things and my medicinal arsenal has now caused me to crash.
I am praying that my weekly Glutathione+ IVs on Wed will help bring me up a little. My doctors want me to start CSM right away, but I am terrified of being made worse. I am barely able to get myself back and forth to bathroom or bathe as it is. Critical functions for being by myself during parts of the day while hubby is running back and forth to take care of things at the house with plants, mail, laundry, etc.
Good luck to you Jin, you will sort your way through your situation. Awareness is 80% of the battle, and you have educated yourself well about the risks of mold.
Just keep envisioning yourself in a mold safe environment and your internal compass will guide you to it and it to you. Remember that one can not hit a target they can not first picture. Mental imagery is a facinating internal radar guidance system that we all have onboard. We just need to learn to use it and keep it tuned up through thoughtful meditation. Something I hope to do more of and is what is helping me get through my difficult days here.
I had hubby pack my CD player and brought soothing relaxation CDs and I listen to that during the day when I am here by myself while I lay on the infrared mat. I cried less today so maybe it is helping me.
The only reason for adding this to this thread is let you see how bad mold can disrupt your lives. Don't let this happen to you. Don't risk becoming displaced from your home with no where to live at a time when you may be at your sickest and least capable to do anything about the problme.
Do your home inspections and correct any problems now. Remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. There could not be more truer words about mold. We are learning this hard the way. Don't let this become your situation. If you have been following this thread, then you are probably wondering about your mold risk situation. Get it checked out now.
[ 05-19-2009, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: jam338 ]
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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disturbedme
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posted
Jam, just wanted to update the pictures I have of the mold we found in our apartment. We sent off the air vent/duct sample and should know the results of that this week sometime. I will post the results of that when we get it. We need to send these in as well. $30 for each we send in though, so it's getting pricey and we don't really have the money!!!
Here they are. A few different types it looks like. The mold from the air vent/duct sample looked just like the black/green mold spore on the bathroom plate in this picture. They just kept growing and growing though, so they got very big. These continue to grow as well.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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Disturbedme, so glad you are testing to see if this is any way connected to illness and a barrier to healing.
From the pictures, it suggests the potential source area is the bathroom. There could have have been an under the sink plumbing leak, toilet overflow problem, or around the bathtub/shower.
Do a careful visual inspection of the bathroom. However, not seeing a problem doesn't mean it isn't there. Most apt owners do superficial repairs (less costly) and paint or tile over it.
Your pictures look very similar to ours.
Our lab results are back from Immunolytics lab, as follows:
Types of Mold n Our Gravity Mold Test Plate Analysis Report:
-Penicillium -Cladosporum -Geotrichium
I don't understand why Aspergillus was not in the report. Maybe it just didn't bloom during the last one hour test period. Not sure. The green fuzzy mold with outside ivory border (in your plates and ours) look consistent with pictures of aspergillus mold I have seen online. However, maybe the Cladosporum or Geotrichium mold might look similar. Don't know. I haven't yet looked them up. We were too busy moving out, and then crashed from the move, along with severe depression setting in.
Today I have had to pull myself out of it and get back to the mold books. We are meeting with the contractor this evening and I need to know more detail about what questions to ask him, especially regarding subcontractors specific certifications, bonding, insurance, etc.
Anyway, back to your pictures. It will take only 7-10 days for you to get the lab results and you will know more. You definitely will not have a false negative report as you have already seen that mold grows in the culture.
So, you will know that you have those particular molds and probably others that are not showing in the mold gravity plate testing.
Here is why I say that. Certain molds are more detectable through different types of testing whether it be surface sampling, air sampling, or gravity plate testing.
The type of testing that you and I have done thusfar is gravity plate testing. It means the petri dish is capturing whatever mold spores that gravity of air allows to fall down through the air onto the petri dish in that one spot.
For example, theoretically speaking, if you had several petri dishes in one room it is conceivable that you could capture different spores in different locations of the room. Of course one would not test that way as it is simply cost prohibitive to do so.
But, it does demonstrate why testing can produce false negatives and there still be mold spores somewhere in the room. Mold does not particularly have an "even distribution" system throughout the air. The gravity plates collect for one hour of time out of a 24 hour day.
One could say well just leave the gravity plate out longer than an hour, but I wouldn't do that without first having a consultation with the lab as they take the exposure time into consideration when they conduct the analysis. Not following instructions could skew the results of your report.
The same is true for air spore trap sampling. It only captures an area of air, but that test is only for 5-10 minutes at a calibrated level of input, usually 15 liters per minute, but can vary based on type of equipment used. Each manufacturer has their own specifications.
So, what I am trying to say, is you know have mold of some sort. Not all mold is dangerous toxic mold, so don't panic until you have the lab results, but also know that some toxic molds aren't likely to show up on a mold gravity plate test.
For example, stachybotyrs, black toxic mold (the mother of all toxic molds) is very improbable to show up in gravity plate or air spore trap testing. Why? Because Stachy is heavier than most mold and doesn't float around in the air for long.
Due to its weight, Stachy falls to a surface (carpet/wall/furniture) rather quickly. The most probable form of testing to capture Stachy is surface sampling. How one surface samples is using tape lifts, where you follow a specific protocol process, which is basically a 3" piece of tape and carefully lift up the contents and then have the lab analyze it.
Another form of surface sampling is "swabbing" where you use a protocol process and solution and swab an area about the size of a folded business card. Insert it into the vial and mail to the lab for analysis.
But, for surface sampling you pretty much need for the mold to be visible so you know where to do the tape lifts or swabbing.
Surface sampling is typically done where you can see visible area of water damage and suspect mold area. For example, if you look under your bathroom sink, take a good whiff to see what you smell. Does it smell musty/moldy? If so, there has probably been water damage at some time. Not an issue for 75% of the population, but a huge issue if you are in the other 25% and currently chronically sick!
So, you could do tape lift or swab sampling under the sink if you see any suspect areas. Perhaps a cheaper process might be the instant pen process ($15 online) where you can test a suspect area and it will instantly tell you whether it is mold or not. Of course, to find out if it is dangerous mold, you still need to have it lab analyzed.
We haven't yet purchased the instant pens but will do so if our home inspector doesn't have them for when he goes under the house to inspect the crawl space area. My doctor says many qualified home inspectors have and use them. My guess is that varies state to state.
The instant pens are purchaseable through Dr. Mary Beth Short Ray's Mold Help online site at http://www.toxic-black-mold-syndrome.com/MOLDHELPSTORE.html. I can't by the picture who the manufacturer of the pen is, but you can probably google around and compare the picture or there may be other manufacturing sources. Just google "instant mold test pen". I think we will use Dr. Mary since not only does she provide the lab's analysis but also gives her medical opinion on how the mold type may affect your health risks and how to treat it. Personal preference. Go with the cheapest you can find it!
The reality is though, if you see a suspect area you want (NEED) to know whether it is dangerous mold or not.
With the instant pen, it costs $15 to buy and $30 to analyze, so a total cost of $45.
If you do the tape lift sample, the test strip is free (plus $5 shipping) and $30 lab analysis, so a total cost of $35. If testing several areas, that $10 difference between the two options could add up. Ten tests would be $100 difference.
There are air spore testing kits you can order and do your own at home. Not cheap, but cheaper than a home inspector to do it.
Both of the above websites (Dr. Mary and the homemoldtestkit.com site) have home air spore kits. So does examinair.com, one of the products that Dr. Mary recommends and has a click through link to on her site.
Disturbedme, in your situation, if one of you are chronically ill, then you need to carefully think about relocation options. You are renting so that makes it easier. The mold test results should resolve any issues about getting out of your lease agreement.
If it doesn't, there are things you can do about that where your landlord will be more than happy to let you out. In fact, they will be pushing you out the door. Just tell them you are going to start handing out copies of your lab report to neighbors and suggest they look into this problem as it is circulating in the shared HVAC system.
My guess is if you bring that up, you are as good as out without a peep.
The challenge will be in finding a rental without water damage history. Not easy. Most have it. Look for a newer rental, it is less likely to have it (maybe).
Well, gotta get back to my mold books and get my questions finished up. Hang there, you will have answers soon:) Be thinking about your next step options in the meantime.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Well, the contractor just left the hotel room. He arrived with 2 mold remediators in tow, so 3 of them and hubby and me in a small hotel room with me in jammies in the bed.
They have never had to visit a prospective client while in the bed, but doing so has clearly impacted all of them. It was obvious that all 3 are well onboard with the seriousness.
I quizzed all 3 on the areas I had learned from the mold books and DVDs, they passed with flying colors so I am sure they know what they are talking about. All certifications are in place as they should be.
In fact the head remediator has been sick from mold from doing previous jobs. He was very interested in my situation as he has the genetic markers himself and has not changed professions. He has a great doctor who works with him and puts him on a protocol plan prior to starting each job. So far it is working for him. Seeing how bad it can really get might make him rethink that decision at some point.
I could see the worry on his face with how bad he could have gotten. He said it has been a year since he recovered, but never got as bad as me.
We dragged out the results of recent mold plate testing and my body blood test results. I didn't feel awkward in sharing my blood test results and all of them were facinated in it and didn't know that it was even possible to blood test for it.
So, I feel like I helped them learn something new that might help someone else they may encounter along the way who is sick yet maybe all external testing is showing false negatives.
Now, he sees that no matter what the external tests say, that my body testing shows there is mold exposure, and that it has to come from my house. I have been bedridden for most of the past 4 years.
The senior remediator's role was originally to handle the cost quotes and answer questions on behalf of the company,etc. After 2 hours however, he said he was very interested in my situation (I think because of the blood tests and seeing how bad I am), and that he wants to personally handle all the house inspection and testing and wanted to start tonight.
We sure didn't expect that kind of response. It was already 6:30 pm, long after the end of their work day. He told me husband he wanted to go back to the shop and pick up the equipment and meet him over the house to do the testing.
So, they are over there right now. I am very nervous about all this, and wondering how it will go.
For those reading this thread, please say a little prayer for us, thank you.
I think we have finally been guided to people who can responsibly help us. This company is nationally certified and usually specialized in high end custom home restorations (like victorian homes etc), but I think they will handle any size job no matter how big or how small.
This is one of the companies I had previously researched backgrounds on through their certification affiliation with DKI (Disaster Kleenup : http://www.disasterkleenup.com/ The national
We just lucked out that our contractor/neighbor has personally known and worked with this guy for over 20 years. He says the guy has impeccable integrity and is very fair in his price estimates. I sure hope so.
So, the plan is to do the next level of testing with air spore trap testing. Then, later, they will open up the walls and see what is behind there and do actual tape lifts and swab testing on any areas that look suspicious.
He knows now what type of molds he is looking for after seeing my blood tests. And, if it doesn't show up in one test then they need to keep checking because it is in there somewhere or it wouldn't be in my blood.
The whole point in continuing with the air spore trap testing is that it is important not to document every stage of the process and that it was professionally handled correctly by an accredited mold remediator.
If we didn't, it would substantially hurt our property resell value as we couldn't prove it was properly remediated. Now, we will have all the documentation necessary from the best company in this area who has a great reputation with realty companies.
They know if he did the work, it was done correctly. He won't do half assed work. He can't. In order to maintain his certification through the DKI national affiliation they require that very strict standards be followed. That is reassuring for us.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I also wanted to post something more from one of the DVDs I ordered. It outlines the proper breathing standards of mold particle counts per cubic center meter of air.
It is called the "S520 Mold Remediation Standard" @www.iicr.og. I haven't yet had time to study it, but doesn't look like I will need to since this guy seems to know all about it.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Ohhhh, one other thing, sorry my brain isn't working so clear after 2 hours of meeting with so many people. He told me about the name of another mold literate doctor in Northern CA. The guy he was referred to. So, I will get that name to BettyG and Metallic Blue for the list. The doctor is in Sebastapol, Ca and the initial consultation with him is $400. If anyone wants more info on him please PM me or Betty or Metallic Blue. They have started a good list of mold aware/literate docs across the US.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam,
praying this mediator can clean up this mess right, and so glad he listened to you and saying HE'D PERSONALLY DO THIS!!
prayers to jam/family so jam can get her health back and out of bed! xox
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posted
Dear jam338, Thank you so much for your information and encouragement! I have asked the angels to help you and your husband. Be sure your husband wears a mask when going into the house! My parents are in complete denial, so it is all up to me. I understand how upsetting this is, because being out of your home makes you so sad.
Considering your emotional strain and illness, I wanted to help. At least my brain is working fairly well. I did some detective work for you. Those three molds are not normally as problematic for people with healthy immune systems, but those who are chronically ill it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Here is the information I found and their web addresses: Cladosporium spp. Link ex Gray, 1821, de Hoog (1995)
Cladosporium is a dematiaceous (pigmented) mould widely distributed in air and rotten organic material and frequently isolated as a contaminant on foods. Some species are predominant in tropical and subtropical regions [533, 602]. Also, some Cladosporium spp. were isolated from fish and were associated with findings of infection [265]. Species
The genus Cladosporium includes over 30 species. The most common ones include Cladosporium elatum, Cladosporium herbarum, Cladosporium sphaerospermum, and Cladosporium cladosporioides. Synonyms
See the summary of synonyms and teleomorph-anamorph relations for the Cladosporium spp. Among Cladosporium spp., Cladosporium herbarum has a teleomorph, Mycosphaerella tassiana. Pathogenicity and Clinical Significance
Cladosporium spp. are causative agents of skin lesions, keratitis, onychomycosis, sinusitis and pulmonary infections [462, 1847, 2202]. Macroscopic Features
The growth rate of Cladosporium colonies is moderate on potato dextrose agar at 25�C and the texture is velvety to powdery. Similar to the other dematiaceous fungi, the color is olivaceous green to black from the front and black from the reverse. Most of the Cladosporium spp. do not grow at temperatures above 35�C [462, 602, 2202]. Microscopic Features
Cladosporium spp. produce septate brown hyphae, erect and pigmented conidiophores, and conidia.
While the conidiophores of Cladosporium cladosporioides and Cladosporium sphaerospermum are not geniculate, those of Cladosporium herbarum have a geniculate appearance. In addition, conidiophores of Cladosporium herbarum bear terminal and intercalary swellings. Conidia of Cladosporium spp. in general are elliptical to cylindrical in shape, pale to dark brown in color and have dark hila. They occur in branching chains that readily disarticulate. Conidial wall is smooth or occasionally echinulate. Cladosporium cladosporioides produces unicellular conidia. On the other hand, those of Cladosporium herbarum are two- to four-celled. Cladosporium sphaerospermum produces elongate and septate shield cells which are also known as ramoconidia [462, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Brown (phaeoid) hyphae may be observed in infected tissue samples. Compare to
Cladophialophoraspp.
Cladosporium differs from Cladophialophora by having conidia with dark brown colored hila (scars). While Cladophialophora bantiana can grow at 42-43�C, Cladophialophora carrionii and many species of Cladosporium do not grow at temperatures above 35�C.
The monoclonal antibody, EB-A2 used in the commercially available latex agglutination kit to detect galactomannan antigen in sera of patients with aspergillosis may cross react with Cladosporium herbarum [1153]. Laboratory Precautions
Cladosporium spp. should be handled with care in a biological safety cabinet. Susceptibility
Very limited data are available on susceptibility profiles of Cladosporium spp.
Geotrichum is a yeast found worldwide in soil, water, air, and sewage, as well as in plants, cereals, and dairy products [301]. It is also found in normal human flora and is isolated from sputum and feces [1295, 2202]. Species
The genus Geotrichum includes several species. The most common one is Geotrichum candidum. Geotrichum clavatum and Geotrichum fici are among other Geotrichum species.
Geotrichum fici has an intense smell resembling that of pineapple [2202]. Synonyms
See the summary of synonyms and teleomorph-anamorph relations for the Geotrichum spp. Pathogenicity, Clinical and Environmental Significance
As well as being a colonizer of the intestinal tract, Geotrichum spp. may cause opportunistic infections in immunocompromised host and these infections are referred to as geotrichosis. The infections are usually acquired via ingestion or inhalation. Bronchial and pulmonary as well as disseminated infections and fungemia due to Geotrichum have been reported. It has also been isolated from infections resulting from trauma [62, 332, 716, 753].
Apart from its clinical significance, there are very recent claims on environmental damages that Geotrichum might have caused (go to article in the Telegraph). It has been blamed for destroying the aluminium and data-storing polycarbonate resin that are found in the structure of compact discs. This in turn led to discoloration of the disc, with the disc becoming partly transparent. The exact role of Geotrichum in this destruction process requires confirmation. Macroscopic Features
Geotrichum strains produce rapidly growing, white, dry, powdery to cottony colonies, resembling "ground glass." When disturbed on the surface, the colony becomes yeast-like or slimy. The optimal growth temperature is 25�C. Most strains either do not grow at all or grow weakly at 37�C [1295, 2202]. Microscopic Features
Arthroconidia and coarse true hyphae are observed. Blastoconidia, conidiophores and pseudohyphae are absent. Arthroconidia (6-12x3-6 �m) are unicellular, in chains, hyaline, and result from the fragmentation of undifferentiated hyphae by fission through double septa. They are either rectangular in shape or rounded at the ends resembling the barrel shape. Consecutive formation of arthroconidia and absence of empty cells that fragment to release arthroconidia ("disjunctor cells") are typical [1295, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Septate hyphae (3-6 �m wide) and rectangular to oval arthroconidia are observed in tissues infected with Geotrichum [462]. Compare to
Geotrichum differs from Scytalidium by having hyaline arthroconidia and from Arthrographis and Oidiodendron by lacking conidiophores. Unlike Malbranchea, Geotrichum produces arthroconidia by fission rather than by releasing them from disjunctor cells. While the arthroconidia of Coccidioides immitis alternate with empty cells, those of Geotrichum are consecutive. Unlike Trichosporon and Moniliella, Geotrichum lacks blastoconidia. Laboratory Precautions
No special precautions other than general laboratory precautions are required. Susceptibility
In vitro data on activity of antifungal agents against Geotrichum isolates are rather limited. Among the azoles, voriconazole yields the lowest MICs, followed by ketoconazole and itraconazole [2432]. While fluconazole yields very low MICs, some sordarin derivatives also show favorable activity against clinical Geotrichum isolates [1040, 1632].
For MICs of various antifungal drugs for Geotrichum, see our susceptibility database.
The standard therapeutic regimen for treatment of geotrichosis is not yet available. Amphotericin B with or without flucytosine could be considered as could itraconazole. However, prognosis of disseminated geotrichosis is usually poor, with a mortality rate as high as 75% [753].
With only one exception (Penicillium marneffei, which is thermally dimorphic), the members of the genus Penicillium are filamentous fungi. Penicillium spp. are widespread and are found in soil, decaying vegetation, and the air. Showing again how it is distinct from other species in this genus, Penicillium marneffei is endemic specifically in Southeast Asia where it infects bamboo rats which serve as epidemiological markers and reservoirs for human infections.
Penicillium spp. other than Penicillium marneffei are commonly considered as contaminants but may cause infections, particularly in immunocompromised hosts. Penicillium marneffei is pathogenic particularly in patients with AIDS and its isolation from blood is considered as an HIV marker in endemic areas. In addition to their infectious potential, Penicillium spp. are known to produce mycotoxins [1805]. Some Penicillium spp. have telemorphs included in genera Eupenicillium, Talaromyces, Hamigera, and Trichocoma. Species
The genus Penicillium has several species. The most common ones include Penicillium chrysogenum, Penicillium citrinum, Penicillium janthinellum, Penicillium marneffei, and Penicillium purpurogenum. Identification to species level is based on macroscopic morphology and microscopic features [531].
See the summary of species and synonyms for the Penicillium spp. Pathogenicity and Clinical Significance
Penicillium spp. are occasional causes of infection in humans and the resulting disease is known generically as penicilliosis. Penicillium has been isolated from patients with keratitis [581], endophtalmitis, otomycosis, necrotizing esophagitis, pneumonia, endocarditis, peritonitis, and urinary tract infections. Most Penicillium infections are encountered in immunosuppressed hosts. Corneal infections are usually post-traumatic [581]. In addition to its infectious potential, Penicillium verrucosum produces a mycotoxin, ochratoxin A, which is nephrotoxic and carcinogenic. The production of the toxin usually occurs in cereal grains at cold climates [1804].
Penicillium marneffei is a pathogenic fungus and specifically infects patients with AIDS who live at or visit Southeast Asia (Thailand and adjacent countries, Taiwan, and India) where the fungus is endemic [565, 2114, 2200]. Penicillium marneffei infections have also been reported in non-AIDS patients with hematological malignancies and those receiving immunosuppressive therapy [2456]. Penicillium marneffei infection, so called penicilliosis marneffei, is acquired via inhalation and results in initial pulmonary infection, followed by fungemia and dissemination of the infection [431, 803, 1926, 2114]. The lymphatic system, liver, spleen and bones are usually involved. Acne-like skin papules on face, trunk, and extremities are observed during the course of the disease. Penicilliosis marneffei infection is often fatal. Macroscopic Features
The colonies of Penicillium other than Penicillium marneffei are rapid growing, flat, filamentous, and velvety, woolly, or cottony in texture. The colonies are initially white and become blue green, gray green, olive gray, yellow or pinkish in time. The plate reverse is usually pale to yellowish [531, 1295, 2144, 2202].
Penicillium marneffei is thermally dimorphic and produces filamentous, flat, radially sulcate colonies at 25�C. These colonies are bluish-gray-green at center and white at the periphery. The red, rapidly diffusing, soluble pigment observed from the reverse is very typical. At 37�C, Penicillium marneffei colonies are cream to slightly pink in color and glabrous to convoluted in texture [531, 1295, 2144, 2202]. Microscopic Features
For species other than Penicillium marneffei, septate hyaline hyphae (1.5 to 5 �m in diameter), simple or branched conidiophores, metulae, phialides, and conidia are observed. Metulae are secondary branches that form on conidiophores. The metulae carry the flask-shaped phialides. The organization of the phialides at the tips of the conidiophores is very typical. They form brush-like clusters which are also referred to as "penicilli". The conidia (2.5-5�m in diameter) are round, unicellular, and visualized as unbranching chains at the tips of the phialides [1295, 2144].
In its filamentous phase, Penicillium marneffei is microscopically similar to the other Penicillium species. In its yeast phase, on the other hand, Penicillium marneffei is visualized as globose to elongated sausage-shaped cells (3 to 5 �m) that multiply by fission.
Penicillium marneffei is easily induced to produce the arthroconidial yeast-like state by subculturing the organism to an enriched medium like BHI and incubating at 35�C, in which after a week, yeast-like structures dividing by fission and hyphae with arthroconidia are formed [531, 1295, 2144, 2202]. Histopathologic Features
Intracellular arthroconidial yeast-like cells are observed inside the macrophages in infected tissues [531]. Compare to
Paecilomyces
Gliocladium
Scopulariopsis
Penicillium differs from Paecilomyces by having flask-shaped phialides and globose to subglobose conidia; from Gliocladium by having chains of conidia; and from Scopulariopsis by forming phialides. Penicillium marneffei differs as well by its thermally dimorphic nature. Laboratory Precautions
No special precautions other than general laboratory precautions are required. Susceptibility
Available data are very limited. For Penicillium chrysogenum, MICs of amphotericin B, itraconazole, ketoconazole, and voriconazole are acceptably low, while the denoted MICs for Penicillium griseofulvum are higher than those for Penicillium chrysogenum [2432]. Notably, Penicillium marneffei isolates may yield considerably high MICs for amphotericin B, flucytosine, and fluconazole and relatively low MICs for itraconazole, ketoconazole, voriconazole, and terbinafine [531, 1094, 1152, 1489]. Further data are required to provide a more precise susceptibility profile for various Penicillium spp.
For MICs of various antifungal drugs for Penicillium, see our susceptibility database.
Amphotericin B, oral itraconazole, and oral fluconazole have so far been used in treatment of penicilliosis marneffei [431, 1371, 1926]. Oral itraconazole was found to be efficient when used prophylactically against penicilliosis marneffei in patients with HIV infection [423].
I hope this helps! I could not find any really good pictures. The descriptions are pretty good, though. They were very useful. These sound like the molds you were describing in the petri dish.
posted
BettyG, thank you so much for the sweet and thoughtful prayers. I do believe with all my heart that prayer helps. Thank you for helping me.
Jin, bless your heart as well for the prayers and all the information you researched and posted to help me, thank you! I am very touched by your kindness to reach out to help me research. I am so overwhelmed with sorting all this out. So, your research greatly helps me, thank you:)
The worst of those particular 3 molds that turned up on our gravity plate testing is the Penicillium which is a very dangerous mold to those in the 25% mold susceptible group. It can cause permanent brain damage, liver and kidney cancer.
We are a bit mystified why some of the other toxic mold antibodies in my blood labs didn't manifest in the gravity plate testing. But, we know gravity plate test can miss lots of mold spores, it is just the nature of the process.
Maybe air testing will reveal more. Most certainly once the walls are opened up with accessibility to do actual surface sampling will reveal more.
More on our further mold testing process: They didn't get all the testing done last night that the remediator wants to do. Hubby said he was very methodical and efficient how he goes about his work. He is coming back on Saturday to do some more specific testing in additional areas he identified as possible suspect areas. Plus they will crawl under the house etc on Saturday.
Last night the initial inspection involved overview diagnostics. For example, hubby said he used a moisture meter tool and could immediately tell we have a big moisutre problem in our downstairs shower. We did not expect that would be a suspect area at all. That shower has only been rarely ever used at all. Only when my family comes out from the east coast which is rare; 4-5 times in 20 years.
However, when we relocated me downstairs because of the original problem in the upstairs master bath area, I started using the downstairs shower!
So, it was meant to be for me to start using that shower, so this area would be detected in the home inspection process!
Hubby now recalls that when our original contractor built the house he cut corners on that bathroom. He did not use the green "wonder board" that is recommended for behind all showers. He used only regular sheetrock. A huge no no, but legal, in the shower area.
It is a tile shower, and over time any and all tile groutlines will develop hairline cracks and allow moisture (water) in behind. That is when mold starts to grow!
Over 20 years ago we didn't know the contractor had done that until it was too late. We made the financial decision to not rip it out and redo it since it would be a rarely used shower. What a mistake that has turned out to be, but who knew it could lead to this???
There is no visible problem with that shower. It still looks as good as good as the day it was built. All the clear glass and brass still looks brand new, so who would have guessed with so little use that there would be a problem in that shower??? We sure didn't.
The point in sharing all this is to emphasize (again) that you can't tell if there is a mold problem just by looking. You need to test.
The area in that bathroom that we knew would be a problem is around the toilet. The wax seal failed and caused a slow water leak problem.
If we had proceeded on our own with the remediation process with just hubby doing the work, we would have entirely missed this problem with the shower. It takes the right tools to detect the moisture content in the walls, and the right person operating it who will be truthful and truly knows about safe percentage levels.
So, we are really glad that for right now it appears that we did our homework well and have chosen wisely about our process thusfar. Knock on wood!
So, maybe we will soon have more definitive answers about our house mold crisis.
In the meantime I am hoping the healing of my body from toxic mold can begin now that I am physically removed from the source of the mold.
Maybe now I can get well enough that my LLMDs feel more secure about starting to treat my lyme disease and babesia.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It appears to deal with mold, we need the Th2 immune pathway to kick in.
For those persons with lyme as well as those persons with certain genes (who have mold triggered asthma), the Th1 pathway is predominant.
The gene involved is:
B16 Arg/Arg which renders some people ***resistant to an arginine deficiency.***
If you have that gene AND lyme, any mold exposure could be a HUGE problem.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Marnie, thanks for the information. I remember one of my LLMDs mentioning the importance of Th1 and Th2, but he said it as though he thought I already likely knew it. I don't.
I didn't want to derail him and forgot to ask for more details later.
Is there a lab test to evaluate B16 Arg/Arg? Or is that part of the testing panel for Th1/Th2 functioning? Assuming a Th1/Th2 testing panel even exists. Seems like I have read about it being tested somehow. I would greatly appreciate more information if you or anyone knows more in this area.
I am hoping that more of my many lab tests are done, but still have more to get drawn at Quest.
Hubby keeps forgetting to check the fax machine when he goes to the house, and that is where my blood test results come in. Of course, to my doctors as well. But, they always authorize a fax send to me so I can review and prepare my questions in advance of appt to discuss results.
I have about 50 labs right now that we are waiting for results so that they can prepare compounded detox IV's for me.
Right now they are giving me weekly IVs of Myer's Cocktail with Glutathione to get me started. The first one helped a little, but then we had the move to the hotel, a crash/setback, so the second one didn't help as much. We'll see how the one today does for me.
Marnie, can you please clarify more about what you mean "resistant to an arginine deficiency". I assume that a "deficiency" in anything is not a good thing as it symantically means an insufficient level of something. So, a resistance to a deficiency sounds like that would be a good thing, but if that is the case, then I don't understand its association with a problem.
I hope I am making some sense with my question. Sorry if I am not. Trying to get showered/dressed with rest breatks for my trip out for the weekly IV.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Too much arginine -> too much NO which the body will try to counter in many ways.
"Nitric oxide in the small amounts made by the body..."
Some is good and needed, too much is not.
The balance is off.
People with that gene look to have excess arginine (don't let the level drop).
Genetic testing can be done to see if you have that gene and may need to counter the excess via diet/supp.
Posts: 9481 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Marnie or anyone else,
I have read that by taking magnesium you can make a fungal infection worse.
posted
Emla999, seems like to me that I have read post warnings about magnesium, something about lyme loving it and it feeds lyme, which is theorized why many of us might be deficient in it.
Some have said when we supplement magnesium we may be feeding the critters we are trying to kill. Not sure if that is similar with fungal infection or not.
I take about 1200 mg of Malic Acid twice a day, and if I don't my muscle spasms (especially trapezius area) are much worse. There were some studies done on the benefit of Malic Acid. Said it could bring relief within 48 hours which I thought was a ridiculous statement as most supplements take several weeks to notice improvement.
However, my sister and I both noticed significant improvement within the first week of taking it. If I inadvertently run out of it, my neck and shoulder spasms return with a vengance. They never completely go away, but do significantly improve.
Without the Malic Acid I live an ice bag on my neck and shoulders.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Terry K, you said you had used essential oils/diffuser to help with mycotoxin treatment. I have been looking at the Thieves products (oil and air pump diffuser (http://www.secretofthieves.com/thieves-diffuser.cfm)
On another thread (essential oils) you mentioned Thieves was one of the products you used. I am confused whether you used an internal Thieves product or the external diffuser process, or both? Can the same products be used either?
As you can tell I know nothing about essential oils, but want to learn. I read on the Thieves website where it supposedly can be an organic way for treating mold. Perhaps similar to the Citrisafe products but obviously using different product formulations since both are apparently patented processes.
Just a footnote reminder for others though that killing mold organically is not a substitute for remediation. You still have to remove the dead spores no matter what. Still need to remediate.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Jam338,
Yeah, I have also heard some people say that taking magnesium supplements actually made their Lyme Disease symptoms worse.
But I can't help but wonder if those same people were actually just making a fungal infection/yeast worse????
The link bellow seems to indicate that magnesium can possibly make a candida infection worse.
"strong ionic magnesium solutions greatly increase rhinovirus, herpesvirus and Candida albicans in vitro, and appear to worsen these infections in humans. "
But it seems as though a lot of people are deficient in magnesium, so whats a person to do??
Maybe fungal infections are part of the reason why so many people are low in magnesium nowadays..??
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Anyone know for sure if LapCorp does this test (the Esoterix antibody mold test)??? I went to my LLMD today and tried to get the tests written up and whatnot, but they could not find the codes for it and they even called LabCorp and LabCorp couldn't find it and said they'd call them back. Sooo... anyone know for sure and know the RIGHT diagnostic codes and whatnot?
Thanks so much!!!
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
jam, You can use some oils internally and in the diffuser but not all. I believe Young Living oils are very pure and most can be used internally. Any oils taken internally should be used with great caution. Also put them in capsules.
I saw a doctor who was supposed to be a mold expert and he told me to take thieves oil internally. He was suprised when I told him I was already using it. I was suprised that he knew about it. LOL
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Disturbedme, yes it is definitely through LabCorp, but it is an Esoterix Lab test. I think maybe LabCorp must have bought Esoterix Lab, not sure. My lab test order says Esoterix Labs with no mention of LabCorp on their letterhead. However, when the bill came in it states LabCorp. When the blood draw was done it was at LabCorp.
Another board member, CD57 had previously told me when she contacted Esoterix she was told there are regional panels depending on what area of the country you are in. You might want to google for Esoterix Labs, get their phone number and call for more info.
However, be aware that some of us who have called Esoterix had hit/miss success with them. It all depends who answers the phone. I would say ask to talk directly with a lab technician, not just talk to the clerical administrative person who answers the phone. That seems to be where the disconnect is in my opinion.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Terry, thanks, through what guidance document source did you first learn how to take the oils internally? Anything I could get on that is why I am asking, especially since you said use caution with it.
Also, Terry did you get the air pump diffuser like the one on the Thieves website? The little glass ice cream looking globe thingy on the brass stand? If yours is different, can you point me to a source comparison online for a picture? Thanks:)
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
It woudl breat if someone who calls the call could get the regional panel numbers with diagnotist codes and kindly post them on the thread for others.
I need to call the lab tomorrow to see if Hubby's test is done....will try to ask on the regional codes and post what I learn.
I went to LabCorp for the MSH test wtih Traysalol kit only. They didnt have a clue what I was aksing for or why. they were out and he said htye owuld have to reorder it. and they would call me on arrival. That was a week ago, no call. The technician confided no one there had ever heard of a traysal kit or done one....that wasn't inspriring.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Dear jam338, You are so welcome for the information on those molds! Since my brain seems to be one of the few parts working properly, I may as well use it! I am perplexed, because my 31 kDa IgG confirmation test came back negative. I have an IND on my IgM 41 kDa, and a + on that same band on the IgG. Can I rule Lyme out now?
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
jam - Here is a copy of my response to you about the diffuser question that you asked on the essential oil thread.
I have 2 diffusers. The first one I bought from Young living. They only sell one kind and it is as you describe - glass on a brass stand. I then found another one that is the same type but much more powerful - can saturate a room much better. I think it works better for the mold and mycotoxin applications. This is the second one that I bought and the one that I would recommend. I have no financial interest in any of the products that I mention. http://www.diffuserworld.com/aromapro--essential-oil-diffuser-nebulizer-p-9.html
Sometimes I have them both going, particularly when working on mycotoxins.
jam asked: through what guidance document source did you first learn how to take the oils internally?
It was mentioned to me first from the person who sold me the oil. Didn't pay much attention as I was not inclined to take essential oils internally. Then my herbalist/muscle tester mentioned it to me. Then I read that the oils can be taken internally in several places on the Young Living website. http://www.youngliving.com/oils.faces
Also, the doctor that I saw for mold issues told me to take Thieves oil internally. He told me to put a few drops in a capsule. I've never taken any other brand internally. I would proceed with caution on any essential oils that are taken internally because they can be very strong.
There is a Dr. Richard Lloyd who recommends a product called Detox oil used with a diffuser to kill mold. He is very involved in rife. He is not a medical doctor. I've been reading his inforamtion for a number of years and I think it is good information but may be a bit out there for some people who are not comfortable with alternative methods. http://www.royalrife.com/mold_toxins.pdf
He recommends peach tree extract for mycotoxin binding. I haven't tried it yet but plan to give it a try at some point. Scroll down to the peach tree extract.
My muscle tester/herbalist tested for my specific mold and came up with a program for me using essential oils to kill the mold and remove the mycotoxins. It seems to have worked but I haven't taken samples and sent them to a lab yet to be sure.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
As far as Labcorp and MSH testing. I called them ahead of time. It took them over a week to get the kit and get everything set up to deal with the testing.
I had to call them several times. Seems like some of the techs are better at handling new and unusual tests than others so if the people at the labcorp office that you are working with can't handle it maybe they can send you to one of their labs that can.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Terry thanks for all the help and such great info on essential oils and the diffuser. I am definitely going to give this a try. I haven't been muscle tested for it, but instinct just tells me that it will help me to some degree. I know you know what I mean.
Terry have you tried or noticed a difference in the delivery system of the daffodil bulb glass as opposed to Oil Drop plain design? Is it just aesthetics or is there a functional difference?
Also, instinct suggests that one should likely use a separate distributer glass bulb for each scent or does it matter? Just wasn't sure if it can be sufficiently cleaned with the closed design. The bulbs aren't horribly expensive so it seems doable.
I want to get a separate distributer base exclusively for our bedroom to use lavendar oil at night for hubby. He has been severely distressed with my illness and now the house crisis. He loves the smell of lavendar and likes putting the lavendar oil in a hot bath, says it helps relax him. So, I am thinking the diffuser might be just the thing to help him relax and improve his sleep.
Sounds like I should try and find someone near me who is knowledgeable about essential oils.
Terry, how long of a period do you run the diffuser? Every day? I am sure it might vary based on what you treating. For example treating mycotoxins vs just night time sleep relaxation.
Dr. Lloyd sounds interesting. Years ago prior to my illness I was hugely skeptic of alternative things. OMG has this disease change me and hubby in more ways than one. We have lost faith in traditional medicine, with the exception of a few doctors, and now I am looking more to ancient history options that have been known for thousands of years. There are doctors out there who have stayed in touch with all that. I am in pursuit of finding them now.
Pharmaceuticals have their place in medicine but they have manipulated themselves into being perceived as medicine, not just part of it.
I ordered a book that Bejoy recommended on Flower Remedies and feel there will be something in that for me as well.
Still in pursuit of finding someone with expertise in my area who can give guidance on either. I plan to ask my LLMDs if they know of anyone I can work with.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I found Myrrh essential oil very effective for mold in the lungs. It stopped the terrible cough. I don't use oils very much though, because they can interfere with homeopathics, which I use constantly.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Hey do y'all remember the once popular light bulb diffuser rings from the 70s/80s period? No idea if was effective or just a quick buck marketing tactic. It was promoted for fragrance inexpensive diffusing.
You used a little metal (brass?) ring. Placed it on a regular light bulb and then added a few drops of scented oil. I don't think it was quality essential oils at all. Just inexpensive scented oils, but is the delivery mechanism feasible???
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I don't like the lightbulb rings. They burn the oils and it stinks.
I didn't get fancy. I just put a few drops on a tissue and breathed it, and carried it around with me all day. I'd like to get a nice diffuser, but have not looked at them.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Hi jam, You asked: Terry have you tried or noticed a difference in the delivery system of the daffodil bulb glass as opposed to Oil Drop plain design?
I don't use the daffodil bulb. I have the oil drop design.
For years I used the essential oil lamp that uses a candle. You add water and oil and heat the water which dispurses the oil. Problem is that you couldn't get enough dispursion and I think a fair amount of the oil evaporates due to the heat. I wanted good saturation for the mold and mycotoxin issue.
You asked: Is it just aesthetics or is there a functional difference?
This is what they say on the website as a description for the daffodil design. I don't see a similar description on the oil drop design.
"The glass piece maintains control of diffusion by acting as a separator of oil particle sizes. Large oil particles are returned to the reservoir while smaller "air borne" particles escape through the top."
Probably means you get more dispursion into the room. The larger particles probably tend to settle close to the machine rather than into the air.
When I called diffuser world to ask about the daffodil design they said it was louder than the oil drop. We already had the Young Living with the oil drop design and it was loud enough so I decided to go for quieter even if it meant less dispersion.
You asked: Also, instinct suggests that one should likely use a separate distributer glass bulb for each scent or does it matter? Just wasn't sure if it can be sufficiently cleaned with the closed design. The bulbs aren't horribly expensive so it seems doable.
Not sure what you mean by closed design. I have one nebulizer for each diffuser. I clean with soap and water between oils and it works fine.
You asked: Terry, how long of a period do you run the diffuser? Every day? I am sure it might vary based on what you treating. For example treating mycotoxins vs just night time sleep relaxation.
I use muscle testing. I run oils and amounts based on that. The plan that my herbalist came up with for getting rid of mycotoxins with essential oils took continous running of the diffuser for 15 days in each room affected. I had to mix oils and change them at given intervals. It was a pain and not cheap. I also had to spray a mix of Grapefruit seed extract, Grapefruit essential oil, Quinine and Vinegar in vents many times over a number of days. Also had to diffuse in the rooms and wash the walls with it. This was after we killed the main strain of mold. She said there was another strain that had not been killed. Keep in mind, this is all via muscle testing. If I hadn't been using it for so many years with success, I would have never agreed to do this complex and expensive protocol.
jam wrote: Years ago prior to my illness I was hugely skeptic of alternative things. OMG has this disease change me and hubby in more ways than one. We have lost faith in traditional medicine
I *think* you mean modern medicine (specifically allopathic) rather than tradional medicine? Modern medicine has been around for about a hundred years. Traditional medicine has been around for thousands of years.
Many of us have lost faith in allopathic medicine and with good reason. We are often told initially that there is nothing wrong, it is all in your head because your blood tests don't show anything that we understand, see a shrink. We are ignored and even called crazy sometimes until we are too ill to function.
Then we are told that they don't really know what is causing our illness but they have some names that they've assigned to a group of symptoms (CFIDS, FIbromyalgia etc..) and we have one or more of those illnesses. Then we are given tons of drugs and told we will just have to learn to live with it. Uhhhh..... you don't know what's wrong but you want us to take lots of drugs and just learn to live with it????? Yes, don't bother looking for an answer or help because there isn't any!!! If we don't know the answer, nobody does!!! Pretty egotistical.
You wrote: I ordered a book that Bejoy recommended on Flower Remedies and feel there will be something in that for me as well.
I have many flower essences and use them for myself, my husband and our dogs. They can be very powerful if you get the right one. The descriptions that come with them are sometimes accurate and sometimes not so accurate. Again, muscle testing works well for this.
You might consider looking for an herbalist. I personally prefer one who muscle tests of course. LOL
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
This is good info. So JAM, you are using the Disaster Kleenup folks and recommend them? I will look them up. Perhaps you could share the name of your guys since we are both in the bay area? PM me.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Disturbed, my ordering LLMDs office sent me an Esoterix kit with his regional mold panel order form in it. When I took it to Labcorp for the draw (Labcorp owns them) they were mystified as to why I had the kit in the first place. So, just get a hold of one of Esoterix's test order forms and have your doc mark off which ones they want. (Or you can, I added a couple that weren't marked on my form that I wanted tested). Hee.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Sorry I have not been able to keep up on this thread. Haven't had regular access to internet. But, trying to keep up with reading here as I am able.
We moved from the house to hotel for a week and then into a close friend's motorhome in the driveway.
Very rough start with the motorhome adventure. 3 days without electrical or water. We finally had the motorhome set up correctly and with our essentials and all my supplements etc.
THEN--- we discovered a massive amount of MOLD in the bathroom cabinet!!! The motorhome is only 3 years and in great shape other than MOLD. After some investigation with a flashlight (best way for inspecting for mold), we found the water intrusion point. The sky light/roof ventilator.
The water damage area is very dry and the nails are rusted in that area. Clearly not recent damage. Due to surgeries our friends hadn't been able to use it at all last year so they had no idea about the water damage or the mold. And, of course it is out its warranty period now, and they didn't purchase exteneded warranty provision. Of course, now they are sick over it. They still owe about $65,000.
The impacted area is extensive. The entire shower wall. That wall is a shared wall with the reverse side being the kitchen with the microwave and stove on the reverse side of the same wall. All that will have to come out. I can not even imagine how much that would cost them to fix properly. Unfortunately, he is not handy and with his back surgery problems is in no shape to deal with it. He can't even make it up the step to come in to look at it. Poor guy.
So, after discovering the mold, we moved into our garage/backyard that night. Then, I came down sick with a horrible cold and sore throat within a day or two. I keep wondering can things get any worse, and then they do! I think I need to quit wondering!!!
TERRYK, thanks for all the essential oil and diffuser info. Terry I think you are right in that I might benefit from working directly with a herbalist. There is a herbalist who works closely with one of my LLMDs so I will inquire further at my next appt. Hopefully I will soon be more on my feet and able to get something ordered online. Your guidances will help me immeasurably with that, thank you.
CD57, here is the website of the company we are using:
We are dealing with Jeff Farley, who I think is the President. Thusfar, he seems good to work with. Definitely knows about the ins/outs of mold including sickness from mold as he has had it himself a couple of times. Only time will tell how it goes with them of course. It is still early in the process. But, the first meeting with him went great. It couldn't have gone any better. He spent time explaining things, very compassionate, very knowledgeable about mold, etc.
The company was highly recommended by our neighbor/contractor who has known and worked with them for about 20 yrs.
Their website says they serve 57 California cities:
Allendale, American Canyon, Angwin, Antioch, Bay Point, Benicia, Bethel, Island, Birds Landing, Bloomfield, Brentwood, Brooks, Byron, Calistoga, Clayton, Concord, Davis, Deer Park, Discovery Bay, Dixon, Elmira, Esparto, Fairfield, Hercules, Hilltop Mall, Kenwood, Napa, Nut Tree, Oakley, Oakville, Pacheco, Pinole, Pittsburg, Pleasant Hill, Point Richmond, Pope Valley, Port Chicago, Port Costa, Richmond, Rio Vista, Rodeo, Rumsey, Rutherford, San Pablo, Sonoma, Spanish Flat, St. Helena, Suisun City, Vacaville, Vallejo, West Pittsburg, Winters, Woodland, Yolo, Yountville, Zamora
Not sure if any of those are in your area or not, but they may be willing to venture out if not too far. These days with the economy and the severe hit to real estate and home building in CA, I can't imagine any construction oriented company turning down work.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
jam,
murphy's law still hitting you 2 hard!!
wow to move from hotel to motor home and then MOLD is in bathroom/water area! shaking head...
best wishes to you on your continuous problems; may god come and help you folks out getting you into a SAFE ENVIRONMENT. xox
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
A recent study shows that toxic mold is even more hazardous to your health than previously thought:
" And toxins produced by mold are more potent than was previously thought. It has now been shown, for instance, that mold toxins (mycotoxins) not only directly kill cells but can also affect immune cells in a way that increases the risk of allergies.
Even incredibly tiny amounts of these toxins can do this, as little as a few picograms (a picogram is one millionth of a millionth of a gram)."
Even tiny amounts of mold mycotoxins are considered to be EXTREMELY toxic!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
A recent study shows that toxic mold is even more hazardous to your health than previously thought:
" And toxins produced by mold are more potent than was previously thought. It has now been shown, for instance, that mold toxins (mycotoxins) not only directly kill cells but can also affect immune cells in a way that increases the risk of allergies.
Even incredibly tiny amounts of these toxins can do this, as little as a few picograms (a picogram is one millionth of a millionth of a gram)."
Even tiny amounts of mold mycotoxins are considered to be EXTREMELY toxic!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
BettyG, thanks for the support and prayers. I must admit at this point I feel "snakebit" for sure. I feel like I am in a living nightmare.
I hope that everyone is taking note of how devastational mold can become to someone with lyme disease. Please everyone, take preventative steps now so you don't risk having to go through this.
I am too sick to cope with or manage with this mold crisis. Problems with everything, and I do mean everything now. The stress is just unbearable.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i've been learning SO much from all of you contributing to this entire post.
thank you for sharing so openly what has happened to you and each step you took to resolve mold problems.
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
So sorry that you are going through such a horrible time jam. I hope things get better quickly.
On the bright side, you know why you are so sick now and can take steps to fix it. You are on your way up out of this nightmare!!!
Hang in there.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Jam, we got back the results from the lab who tested the mold in our HVAC/air vent in our apartment.
It was Cladosporium. Here is the picture of it again:
Of course those three colonies got bigger and bigger... but I didn't take a picture of them when they were bigger.
Here's another picture of the molds we found in our apartment.... AUGH:
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
OMG, the mold remediator just called my husband with the test results; stachybotyrs along with other molds. The nightmare just keeps getting worse. I am soooo stressed right now!
My husband is on his way over to pick up the lab report along with the remediation repair cost estimates. Needless to say this is going to be huge.
TerryK, thank you so much for the support. You are right, and I keep reminding myself every step of the way with this is a pathway to finding important answers. Although the answers we are getting are horrible and hard to cope with, we are finding the missing critical pieces to the puzzle of my illness.
I really need to find a local good muscle tester and herbalist to work with for the essential oils and diffuser. I just know that is part of my recovery journey.
I also need to figure out Bach Flower remedies to help my husband with his stress which is through the roof. He has never had balanced energy to start with, and the stress of this has thrown his system way off.
We received the results of his Esoterix Mold Antibody results and his levels were low to moderate (1 & 2) on many of the same molds as my test showed.
I think the difference is I have the mold susceptibility gene and he obviously doesn't. He isn't sick.
Some of my LabCorp tests are back with HLA DRB DQB results, but I don't know how to interpret them. C3a C4a and other results still pending.
TerryK, (or anyone) know what the 375 on MMP9 means??
[ 05-30-2009, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: jam338 ]
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
omg..... I am so sorry Stachy is the dreaded 'black toxic mold'.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
DISTURBEDME, Cladisporium is one of the molds that came back on our mold gravity plate tests as well.
Cladisporium is a common mold and not one of the more dangerous toxic molds. However, it can create health problems, especially for someone with the mold susceptibility genetic factor. Especially if that someone also has lyme disease.
Here is a website with information on various types of mold:
These genera of mold are pigmented dark green to black in the front, and black on the reverse with a velvety to powdery texture. One of the most commonly isolated from indoor and outdoor air, Cladosporium spp. are found on decaying plants, woody plants, food, straw, soil, paint, textiles, and the surface of fiberglass duct liner in the interior of supply ducts.
There are over 30 species in the Cladosporium genus. The most common are C. elatum, C. herbarum, C. sphaerospermum, and C. cladosporioides. These fungi are the causative agents of skin lesions, keratitis, nail fungus, sinusitis, asthma, and pulmonary infections. Acute symptoms of exposure to Cladosporium are edema and bronchiospasms, and chronic exposure may lead to pulmonary emphysema."
I think you said your hubby has lung or breathing problems right? If so, and if he has the genetic factor, it could be possible that the mold might be contributing. You would need to check with a mold literate doctor to evaluate whether that amount of Cladisporium could be causing problems for him.
And, of course air spore testing will reveal more information than the gravity plate testing. Still waiting on hubby to arrive home with our lab results. I will be able to post more on how the two testing processes yielded different results for us.
Clearly a significant one was Stachybotrys, the most dangerous toxic mold of them all! It did not show up at all on our mold gravity plate tests. And, we did 2 separate sets of gravity plate tests!
The air spore trap testing doesn't always capture Stachybotrys, but it did in our case. I am guessing that once they open up the walls to survey further and excavate that they will find even more.
Once they open the walls up, then they will test using surface sampling tape lifts and swabs to find the safe clearance areas. Then, all the sheetrock and wood framing structure within the contamination area zone will be fully removed and replaced. All of those areas will have to be full containment protection and the workers in hazmat protection suits.
That is how dangerous stachybotrys, penicillium, and aspergillus is. It is a labor intensive and expensive process.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Disturbedme, more FYI regarding Cladisporium. Our new lab report (air testing) shows Cladisporium is more significant than the website in my above post tends to suggest it could be. You might want to check a few sources on it.
But here is what our report, through Wonder Makers Environmental Lab in Michigan, states:
"Cladisporium is typically found out of doors, but can grow indoors under the right conditions---usually water damaged areas. Exposure to any type of spore at elevated leves (over 500 c/m3) either for prolonged periods or for repeated short periods of time can cause ill health effects. The possible consequences of exposure to mold sporeas include developing asthma, allergies, hypersensitivity disease and severe respiratory infections."
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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All related to water damage!! Inspect, inspect, inspect!! <yeah, clanging that bell again for those who need another nudge>
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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