posted
Thanks, Bob. Seems I as well as others are getting our lesson in this including some practioners, I hope.
If I share this with my practioners, they will likely refer to the protocol, which is not clear. The term (clarification) "elemental" is not mentioned in the protocol linked above... not that I can find.
There should be more clarity in the protocol because that is what practioners are following.
A blog post from Scott is not enough. It possibly wont convince my practioners who do not know who Scott is or his access to Dr. K. (I asked them months ago when I wanted to share other info from Scott.)
More people have been confused than are speaking up, and that includes practioners.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I just wouldn't think Dr. K and Dr. T would both list the dosage as a salt dosage in their protocol when elemental dosage is the standard way of doing things(and they list elemental dosages for everything else). Like I also said before I can't see Dr. K making the mistake of saying 250mg of any of those salts when that would vary the amount of elemental zinc drastically depending on which salt you choose to use. That just doesn't make any sense. Here's what I'm talking about. 250mg zinc sulfate yields 170mg zinc 250mg zinc gluconate yields 42mg zinc 250mg zinc picolinate yields 66mg zinc So it makes no sense to interpret that 250mg of zinc on the protocol as being a zinc salt, because that would drastically change you're actual zinc dosage depending on which type you buy.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
This is the wording/description of the CORE mineral supplement clearly describing its content of all mineral ingredients from the Biopureus website:
The Core Mineral Supplement. Essential Vitamins and Minerals. 240 Veggie Capsules. Adult serving size: 4 capsules daily. Bottle contains a two month supply. Supplement Facts: Serving Size 4 Vegetarian Capsules Vitamin B-6 75 mg (3,750% DV) (as Pyridoxine HCl and Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate. Biotin 10,000 mcg (3,333% DV. Elemental Zinc 27 mg (180% DV) ( from 80 mg Zinc Picolinate and 80 mg Zinc Gluconate). Manganese (as Manganese Citrate) 20 mg (1,000% DV). Chromium (as Chromium Chelate) 500 mcg (417% DV). Molybdenum ( as Molybdenum Krebst) 500 mcg (667% DV). Daily Value not established. Other Ingredients: Silica, Cellulose. �Krebs= Citrate, Fumarate, Malate, Glutarate and Succinate Complex. Dosages, indications and any other information contained herein is suggested use only and not to be considered treatment recommendations. Please consult with a healthcare provider for treatment of any illness or condition, especially if you are pregnant, breast-feeding or considering treating a child. We suggest that you consult a licensed physician if you have any health problems and you require a medical diagnosis or medical advice or treatment. Our products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. For all matters that relate to your health, please contact your physician.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Yes the Core does make sense if you need the high dosages of moly, manganese and chromium, and no it was not out until recently, though the Europeon supplement also lists elemental and has been out since the beginning.
The protocol says 250 mg and thats what some practioners have been prescribing in elemental form.
And yes, listing a one size fits all 250 mg of the salts makes no sense.
[ 12-18-2009, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: R62 ]
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
What symptoms are you all having? Repeating for those not reading the entire thread: I didnt know I was on the protocol in full with the zinc until Scott's blog post came out explaining the difference between elemental and salt zinc.
I thought 25-60 mg, which I have been on was low and there was no problem. My practioners, I gather, have had the same conclusion.
I was on 25 mg for at least two months and recently upped from 47.5 to 60. During the last month or so, I have had the strangest and scariest symptoms. I thought it was a lyme or babs flare or possibly porphyria.. and it still could be.. but.. given I have been on the KPU protocol long enough for a detox reaction to occur and given my symptoms are very similar to those listed above and to someone else I know on the protocol, I am wondering...
Here are my symptoms that tend to come in attacks:
vibrations, tachtycardia, anxiety, shaking as if I am in shock, blurry vision, feeling I will just lose consciousness.. not the same as feeling will pass out.. different and cant explain, instability physically, weakness, ringing in ears.. some numbness around mouth.
Thats all I can remember now. If I remember more I will edit.
I have been taking 6000mg of chlorella a day. Sometimes rotating last dose (3X 2000mg) with 3 modifilan pills, EDTA chelation complex at times (1/2 to one pill.. do this because I read on yasko site to take enough to bind whats out there but not so much to pull out more), charcoal sometimes and probaby not enough.. 2-3 pills.
I am upping the detox to the 6000mg chlorella and adding (not substituting) either modifilan or the EDTA Chelation Complex at 1 pill. I am also taking 1 scoop of microsilica.
I have a call out to my practioners, but have not heard from them yet regarding HM dumping crisis.
(I tested neg as per VD test. My kids tests were positive. I was not to be on the protocol. I was told 50 mg of zinc is highest I should go as a non KPU-er. I was to be ART tested next visit.)
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Hi all,
Please note my comments on EDTA in an earlier post here.
KPU is mainly directed at heavy metals release. i.e. mobilizing them. From that point on, you need to bring certain helpers on board to help the metals out.
When metals are finally mobilizing, pathogens may flare, and you will have to pay attention to that. That is the reason for doing KPU only under guidance. Unless, of course, you have the answers yourself, can test yourself, safely. I don't and I have to consult knowledgable people, so that I don't add to the damage that had already been done over the years. There is always something new that works better. A lot of people are working on the sidelines to make it easier.
Again, KPU should only be done under the supervision of a doctor or practitioner v e r y familiar with heavy metal toxicity.
Screaming, shouting and complaining ain't going to get us anywhere. The people that can help will flee!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I dont see anyone screaming, shouting or even complaining. I see healthy processing.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I can't test myself well and am seeing "knowledgable people" and seemingly its slow going getting anywhere with a response.
I was not supposed to be in KPU. It happened by mistake because the knowledgable people didn't realize that the elemental dose is 25-50. I am trying to inform them.
Meanwhile, I have told them that I may be in HM crisis and I have not heard back.
So, I ask my friends for help because the symptoms are pretty scary and I want all the advice I can get until my people get back to me.
I can see other pathogens coming out. That makes sense. I hope we are addressing those correctly as well.
I dont think all practioners are aware of the pandoras box this protocol can be and they need to be informed.
I dont see your info on EDTA. I do see where several people are using correctly or not.. ?? I do also know that some practioners overseeing this protocol are also advising the use of detoxamin. Perhaps the oral form is all wrong?
And really, if you don't want to answer my posts, that's fine.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I still don't know that the elemental dose is 50mg. I have two doctors, one llmd and one chelation doctor that works with Dr. K and Dr. T as well, and they both say it's 250mg BUT that's just for the first 4 months. They said the core and depyrol are formulated for maintenance doses after that first 4 months so you can just take one pill. And the core is formulated at the lower end of a KPU patients' zinc intake, because you can always add more to it if you need to but you can't split the pill in half to get less zinc or then you don't get enough of the B vitamins.
But I've been on the protocol for 5 days now and i'm noticing a much worse headache, and I always use a sauna, but now after I use it i'm really weak and shaky. My gums around where I had a mercury filling are hurting like heck too.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I also see no one screaming,yelling or complaining.I did post I felt angry and thats the truth.Truth needs to be spoken.I have a great Md who energy tests,gets the detox crises thing and much more and it has still has been frustrating for me and many others including Docs.The protocol is extremely hard to go through even knowing all the things to do that can make it easier.People need to have compassion for what others r going through and not judge and point fingers.There is still much confusion going on about all this,and I am hoping Dr K will address it soon. Again I am grateful to Scott for shining the light on the zink confusion.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I also want to say I have been on the protocol for 8 mo.I am very disappointed that I was doing the wrong toxic dosages of zink. My Md dropped my dose to where it should be the other night and squeezed me in to do so after reading Scotts message and hellish symptoms have stopped.I had been doing all the support listed here and more.Please everyone be very careful. Wait to do the protocol until u can find an Md to help that totally understands the process and does not mind u asking questions and is open to u sharing what u know. Blessings to all the confusion lifting so people can feel safe doing the protocol.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Hey healingin santa cruz what symptoms were you having? Because we will get heavy metal redistribution symptoms especially if we aren't chelating along with it. But zinc overdose symptoms are things like nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, stomach cramps.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Hi Pryorka, I have kept notes on all symptoms to share with my md.I know well the symptoms of metal redistribtion as I have dealt with it from the very beginning for 8 mo.I had extreme exhaustion,felt like something was being ripped out of my bones,neck down, hands,fingers feet,buzzing vibration in my body,muscle pain,brain fog got heavier,really bad headaches.Had nausea in beginning but it got better as did tremors,hair stopped falling and every once in a while would have 2-3 days where everything lifted.Felt balanced in mind body spirit emotions. Will add more later.
[ 12-18-2009, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Healing in Santa Cruz ]
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
pyorka, it looks like you trust your practioners or you trust Scott. Until Dr. K makes a statement, I think that's about where we are with this.
My practioners also believe that the 250 is the dosage and are using elemental. I am backing down to 15 mg and took my kids down to 7mg.
I have no support in place with practioners for detox, and I believe Scott is right. I see that people are doing the protocol using Core and Depyrrol and do not think it is at all for maintenance.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11141
posted
Depyrrol has 30 mg elemental zinc.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Nah I don't distrust or trust my doctor or Scott. I know enough chemistry to know when things don't make sense that's all. But for that 250mg to be wrong multiple doctors including Dr. K and the first doctors that treated KPU back in the 80's would've had to know nothing about chemistry, which just can't be the case.
If any of you are that worried, remember that too much zinc will usually cause diarrhea much like magnesium does. Also remember Scott has been on the protocol for over 4 months so he should be at a lower dose at this point, so the confusion could have happened there.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The written KPU Protocol from Dr. K's office which I received states:
"Zinc Picolinate 150-200 mg per day."
There is no doubt about it. I went and purchased zinc picolinate.
The variations come in as people get energetically tested that some people need less and some need more. I won't list the rest of the protocol.
Detox support is shown as: Test to determine which is best -- Detoxamin, DMSA, DMPS, OSR, MicroSilica -- often a combination of these is used. Only after energetic (ART) testing.
I am not listing the complete protocol, since you all were debating the zinc portion of it.
I am certain that CORE is ART tested for each patient and if the combination does not fit, other protocols are established to fit the patient's needs.
If someone -- patient - doctor - is unable to energetically test, they have to decide which is the best way to proceed.
With regard to KPU, the zinc can also be taken in the form of gluconate, i.e. 150-200 mg of Zinc gluconate.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Yes it does say that and Scott did say 25-50 mg elemental for the protocol, which is why we now need clarification from Dr. K.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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I believe its all in these links. Thriiive videos also contain information. Unfortunately, I think there are problems with access to the Thriiive video site.
He recommends the sulfur based detox agents last in line. First start with the binders which will mop up the gut and matrix, then edta, then sulfur based.
He emphasizes supporting kidneys, body for KPU with electrolytes and minerals, baking soda, phosporus which is contained the biopure electrolyte drink. He has borrowed some information from the Vitamin K protocol as well. In the Thriiive videos, there was more emphasis on preparing for KPU.
Core should be energetically tested or one should go by mineral tests, which ones are most accurate for which mineral, I would like to know: hair, urine, RBC, lymphocyte (zinc).
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Continuing what I was writing.About 3 week ago I started having more severe symptoms of all I have listed. Then more were added. Hair started falling again, I started dropping things,balance got off,nausea, dry heaves,on and off loose bowels,itching all over,my brain fog got extreme and confusion got very scary,tremors again,irritable and more. I had been doing all binders and they were energy tested.Baking soda baths had helped when things got bad before but they did not help with these out of hand symptoms.Scott wrote the new article and my Md got me right in and we lowered my dose of zink. He also read me a list of symptoms of being toxic zink and I had many.He is a homeopath besides being an Md and had a great list which is lots more than someone listed here for being zink toxic.I was on 90 mg and now on 45mg Of Thorne Zink Picolinate and happy to say symptoms are lifting.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I was doing all the things that R62 posted and still got into trouble.I felt at times like I was dying. My Md never put any of his patients on the 250 and we slowly ramped up. I feel Pyrroluria is a whole different ballgame when one has Lyme and co. The people that I know that are doing Core and the other all in one pill are not on maintenance.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
R62 Good idea,I don't see why it should be a problem.I would think Doc's and other professionals would have written him by now.Unless they think they understand it.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I think so. I hope so. My concern is for practioners who are not aware this is even an issue. They do not all follow Scott's blog. My practioners had never heard of Scott and when I talked with the medical coordinator, I had to impress upon her that Scott does not post this kind of info unless he is certain in his mind and that he is very credible. Of course, that would mean they would have to take my word on that.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I would imagine that, if one was taking a supplement designed for KPU (Depyrrol or CORE) at the correct dosage, that all this confusion over zinc would be a non-issue, correct?
Posts: 88 | From Toronto | Registered: Nov 2009
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posted
Yes. If Scott is correct. The confusion also seems to lie in whether Scott is correct or not. I am assuming he is based on other sources I have run across.. most just forum posts and one in a book I have that mentions KPU and dosages.. it says 50 mg for zinc.
Some are under the impression that either of these 2 are for maintenance only.
Other than that, the CORE and Depyrrol are very specific in the supplements they contain. Not every one will test for them and will need to take each supp they do test for separately.
For example, those with CBS upregulations may have problems with B6 others may have problems with 5P5 form.
Not everyone needs the high doses of manganese, chromium, moly that is in the CORE product.
So it seems the some/many (?) people who are supplementing separately even as per practioner advice are using the salt doses when the zinc supplement is measuring elemental form.
The Depyrrol product is more basic than the CORE but still contains both forms of B6.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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I'm wondering, since the dose of zinc is within the adequate range, if it'll be as difficult for me as it was for you guys? Maybe it's a little easier on the body when you aren't taking high high amounts of zinc?
I'm hoping that this is the case. I'm hoping that I'll only see a mild worsening of symptoms and won't feel like I'm dying all over again. Healing in Santa Cruz, I'm sorry to hear that you felt like that on the protocol.
I still have high hopes for the protocol. It's just really nice to be able to talk to people who are going through it too.
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Thanks Little Lymie I appreciate your thoughtfulness. The thing is many of us have been on the separate KPU supps.I kept asking on different sites what peoples symptoms were and all they would say is its rough or hard. My body also did not test yes for all the supps like biotin and I forget what else.Now its seeming to want it and others. Just know that all the supps r not in the Core and the other one and if testing yes more needs to be added.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I also have high hopes for KPU as I feel its a big part fo the problem for many of us. Be sure to have binders on board when your body starts dumping metals and toxins.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Both of my kids test postive, and I want to make sure I address this correctly for them.
It horrifies me to think children especially may be overdosing on zinc.
I don't trust all energetic testing by all practioners all the time for zinc supplementation, or anything else for that matter. I think we have to use common sense as a barometer as was well as the proper blood, hair, urine testing.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Been away a couple days. Here's some thoughts:
1) The target for elemental zinc as I understand the protocol is between 25 and 50mg per day of elemental zinc. There are variances in the salt->elemental amounts, but the 200-250mg zinc salts is an approximate to yield the proper amount of elemental zinc.
2) Many have said that this protocol should only be done with a doctor so anyone doing otherwise is taking some risks that may end up making them feel worse and taking more time to correct. It is not an easy protocol and I would never have done it without my doctors; even with, it was still not easy.
3) To avoid confusion in this area, there are products like Depyrrol from Europe and now Core from the US that, under the guidance of a practitioner, may be good choices for some of us. I am on Depyrrol now and when that runs out will move to Core.
4) As Gudrun noted, the information that is provided on klinghardtneurobiology.com and the products through BioPure are to be used with practitioner guidance. They are not intended to be used by the average person that is not working closely with their doctor on these protocols.
5) Everything that I have seen from Dr. K has suggested 250mg of a zinc salt, not elemental zinc. So if there is a confusion here, it is more about how the supplement companies label their products - that is what I found to be very confusing but with research and discussion with a couple of them, I came to understand this better.
6) Simply because a practitioner puts you on zinc does not mean you are on KPU - there are many aspects to KPU beyond zinc - though zinc is a very key part of it.
7) The details here on elemental vs. salt do not have anything to do with where I am in the protocol as I understand. If anything, you'd likely want to be more careful about too much zinc at the start as it will mobilize toxins and metals. So to say that 250mg elemental might good for the first few months and then you would drop back is not resonating with me.
8) If you buy 50mg Zinc Picolinate, that is the ELEMENTAL mg, not the picolinate mg. At least, that's my current understanding and what I was able to confirm with one of the companies of one of the products I was using.
9) The most recent Explore! states "Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months. Approximately 3-4mg/kg body weight. Less zinc may be needed later in treatment for maintenance. Nausea after zinc supplementation may be a sign of hypochlorhydria or low stomach acid. This tends to resolve after 2-4 months on the protocol." This seems clear that the elemental amount required is about 1/6th of the 250mg of zinc salt depending on which salt is being used. I think this seems clear so I am not sure what clarification beyond the above is needed.
10) Agree with zombie that now there is Core, it seems like there are options that will avoid much of this confusion and you will note Core has 27mg of elemental zinc from 160mg of zinc salts.
11) In general, KPU has been great for me - really helped to push along detoxification and improve things with my immune function, WBC count, etc. I just think that doing it with a doctor is critical. Keep in mind that though the general protocol may be up to around 50mg of elemental zinc, some may require more or less.
12) Tools besides energetic testing should be used along the way to monitor progress - hair tests, blood tests, etc. - all why this is NOT a do-it-yourself protocol.
Hope that helps. Be well
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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sixgoofykids
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posted
Thank you for the detailed clarification, Scott.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I also thank you for the clarification and hope the practioners who are prescribing children up to 125 mg elemental zinc and adults up to 250 mg elemental zinc take your info seriously or that Dr. K addresses them personally, preferably the latter.
But you left one thing out:
PRACTIONERS ARE NOT ALL AWARE OF THIS INFORMATION. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE IN THE PROTOCOL.
My practioner did not put me on zinc. I asked how high I could go with a negative test but suspecting I have KPU (without being on KPU protocol) and she said I could take up to 50 mg. THAT along with B6 (which I have been on), but that alone as well, could be considered to be on the KPU protocol if the zinc causes a HM detox and one has KPU even if they do not test positive.
I was on the KPU protocol without knowing it or being PREPARED because my practioner (who is Dr. K trained) does not understand the dosing of zinc for KPU. And because I am most likely positive even though my test was negative.
I was also told to ramp my son up to 125 mg elemental zinc.
I dont know how many times I have to say this for people to ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a PROBLEM.
I also do not understand why Dr. K would not want this clear as a bell, and Scott, it is not. The fact that people here have misunderstood as well as practioners is a sign there is a problem and need for more clarity from the source of the protocol.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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I want this cleared up the way it needs to be cleared up.
How is this not perfectly clear?
I emailed your blog post, Scott, to my practioners representative. It is sitting on the desk of two practioners at the clinic I go to for review. They dont know you from Adam and I hope they take the info seriously and contact Dr. K for clarification, because they are confused.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I hope they get the clarify they need as well. The latest writing on this in Explore! is quite clear though I acknowledge that some practitioners are not clear on this issue.
Onward and upward...
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Dr. K should contact all practioners trained in this to make sure they are clear, Scott. It is not my job to try to convince mine and I am very concerned for others.
I am not the only one this is happening to.
The Explore! article does not mention elemental zinc or does it? NO matter.. my practioners do not read these articles. The protocol comes from Dr. K. They dont have time to read blog posts or articles.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Yes, the Explore article quote I pasted above and it states:
Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months
Clarity is always a good thing. If these practitioners are Dr. K trained, then I would suggest they contact Dr. K for more details.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Again... how the heck can and will they contact him IF THEY DONT KNOW THEY ARE WRONG? Shame on my practioners if they dont. But what about the ones WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE?
I found the notes from a well known doctor online regarding this protocol by accident.. googled and there it was and he lists 250 mg of ZINC. PERIOD.
DO YOU GET THIS OR NOT? Dr. K needs to put out a STATEMENT.
The only reason I am even begging you is that I think you have personal contact with the man.
Im sick of this. I had another attack tonight and cannot tolerate keeping this up.
DONE.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
R62, I'm not continuing to debate this with you.
I've shared what I understand and hope that will help some to better understand this issue if they did not previously.
Other discussions on this matter are likely best directed to your own doctors.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Scott, I said I am done, then you say this. I dont want to debate. Never did.
I know you have more respect and influence in the lyme community, that honestly I dont care to have. Its not my goal or intent. I dont want to win a battle. I only want to be heard.
I cannot physically handle this back and forth and need to be done.
I already told you that I am concerned about the doctors who are not aware and their patients.
Can you identify with that or not?
Make sense Dr. K should contact them to make sure they understand his protocol or not?
Really I need to be done. I tried to talk with you not debate you and I dont hear you really listening.
I respect you alot, but this is really too much.
I cant physically handle it.
Best to you and your endeavors. I dont plan to communicate with you again. Thank you for the heads up on the elemental zinc. You have helped my family tremendously and I will be forever grateful for that.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
scott, what blood tests should be done while on KPU?
posted
Okay see this explore article is what Scott is referencing and I see where he's getting his thoughts from. "Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months "
it says the salts in parentheses because those are the best absorbed forms. And like I said before no knowledgeable doctor would say take 250mg of any of those salts because they all yield completely different amounts of elemental zinc. The 1/6th of this as elemental zinc is referring to the liquid zinc. Liquid minerals are already in electrolyte form and nearly all absorb right into your system.
I'm not saying 50mg of zinc is wrong... I'm just saying if it's right, then whoever wrote that Explore article and Dr. K's KPU protocol must have been extremely drunk.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I had to get off the computer last night as the confusion and R62 not being heard really overwhelmed me. I totally get where she is coming from. I am grateful Scott brought this info to many peoples attention but not everyone will be seeing it.I am hoping Dr K will address this and send info to people that attended the seminars back to when KPU first cam out. I thought everyone was understanding about the elemental part of this now,but from the pm's I am getting people still are not understanding it. They and there Docs are following the original info given out at the seminars and in written articles and r on to high of doses.Like R62 docs they do not have a clue.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Is it possible to only feel better on depyrrol or core (more specifically depyrrol) and not have a massive die off or detox reaction? I'm wondering if it's possible to just boost detox a little and not actually shift a bunch of metals around. Maybe the massive doses of zinc are what shifted metals so significantly for you guys? Maybe on super low doses, like a capsule of depyrrol, you won't have such a huge healing crisis?
I completely agree with you Scott; I don't think it's necessarily wise to start with super high doses of zinc and then taper off. To me, it makes more sense to actually start with low doses to just start gently pushing things along, then build up to a higher dose so you don't shift the whole load too quickly. Maybe that's just our logic though. Every body is different.
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Littlelymie, Ive heard of folks having to split the depyrrol pill the HM movement was so significant. That would be about 15 mg elemental zinc, which is the RDA. Strange that that little zinc could do that.
I dont know if the full dose started something they needed to slow down and the full dose was needed for that to happen or if they needed to start at a lower dose and that lower dose would have caused a milder detox that they could work up from.
From what I understand, the zinc builds up in the system. The body loses in through the heme in the urine and I think sweat and once you have more in than out, the process begins.. not sure if it is that black and white or not.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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sixgoofykids
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Little, I felt a little worse first with toxic symptoms. Then I felt better. Then I felt like I caught every bug that went around once my immune system kicked in.
I did not have the severe symptoms many talk about. Just ups and downs.
Now I don't have any symptoms at all from it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Some of us have HM issues prior to any chelation that might happen with this protocol. We have it in gut and roaming around. I think this is true for me. When you add any little bit of detox on top of that, it could make it look like more HM were released than realy were.
Dr. K does talk about this in the Thriiive videos. He mentions I think taking a month or so to prepare for the detox by using mild binders that act in the gut and matrix like chlorella, microsilica and I think clay. I think he may have said to move on to detoxamin prior to the protocol as well, not sure. This info may be in the links above. The Thriiive videos are down.
Anyway, that could explain some severe reactions. Allergy to the HM and autoimmune response could as well. ??
Maybe some people just have more HM in their body. I cant remember if this protocol acts to push out environmental toxins as well.??
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I was on extremely low doses,and ramped up slowly.My Md was cautious from the beginning. I have done all types of binders,plus coffee enemas,baking soda baths and more. I also know people on Depyrrol that have had a hard time even cutting the pill in half. I had the biggest herpes outbreak 2 weeks ago that lasted till we dropped my dose. Article by Mercola and K say high zink and I think merc can cause this.Many lymies also have herpes.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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"Many Lyme patients suffer from Pyrroluria, a metabolic illness where abnormal porphyrins carry out significant amounts of needed zinc and vitamin B6. Diagnosis is made with the appropriate test at Vitamin Diagnostics in New Jersey. Even though it is assumed that this illness is hereditary, I have my doubts, since most Lyme sufferers have a degree of it. I suspect that the appearance of kryptopyrroles in the urine is induced by the illness.
However, I am careful with excessive substitution of zinc. Zinc has a synergistic effect with mercury in the brain and also promotes the growth of the herpes viruses."
So you may also have been dealing with the effect of the zinc mercury combo...
I dont want to imagine the consequences of practioners who are prescribing up to 125 mg of zinc in elemental form for a child.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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