posted
I would imagine that, if one was taking a supplement designed for KPU (Depyrrol or CORE) at the correct dosage, that all this confusion over zinc would be a non-issue, correct?
Posts: 88 | From Toronto | Registered: Nov 2009
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posted
Yes. If Scott is correct. The confusion also seems to lie in whether Scott is correct or not. I am assuming he is based on other sources I have run across.. most just forum posts and one in a book I have that mentions KPU and dosages.. it says 50 mg for zinc.
Some are under the impression that either of these 2 are for maintenance only.
Other than that, the CORE and Depyrrol are very specific in the supplements they contain. Not every one will test for them and will need to take each supp they do test for separately.
For example, those with CBS upregulations may have problems with B6 others may have problems with 5P5 form.
Not everyone needs the high doses of manganese, chromium, moly that is in the CORE product.
So it seems the some/many (?) people who are supplementing separately even as per practioner advice are using the salt doses when the zinc supplement is measuring elemental form.
The Depyrrol product is more basic than the CORE but still contains both forms of B6.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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I'm wondering, since the dose of zinc is within the adequate range, if it'll be as difficult for me as it was for you guys? Maybe it's a little easier on the body when you aren't taking high high amounts of zinc?
I'm hoping that this is the case. I'm hoping that I'll only see a mild worsening of symptoms and won't feel like I'm dying all over again. Healing in Santa Cruz, I'm sorry to hear that you felt like that on the protocol.
I still have high hopes for the protocol. It's just really nice to be able to talk to people who are going through it too.
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Thanks Little Lymie I appreciate your thoughtfulness. The thing is many of us have been on the separate KPU supps.I kept asking on different sites what peoples symptoms were and all they would say is its rough or hard. My body also did not test yes for all the supps like biotin and I forget what else.Now its seeming to want it and others. Just know that all the supps r not in the Core and the other one and if testing yes more needs to be added.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I also have high hopes for KPU as I feel its a big part fo the problem for many of us. Be sure to have binders on board when your body starts dumping metals and toxins.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Both of my kids test postive, and I want to make sure I address this correctly for them.
It horrifies me to think children especially may be overdosing on zinc.
I don't trust all energetic testing by all practioners all the time for zinc supplementation, or anything else for that matter. I think we have to use common sense as a barometer as was well as the proper blood, hair, urine testing.
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SForsgren
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posted
Been away a couple days. Here's some thoughts:
1) The target for elemental zinc as I understand the protocol is between 25 and 50mg per day of elemental zinc. There are variances in the salt->elemental amounts, but the 200-250mg zinc salts is an approximate to yield the proper amount of elemental zinc.
2) Many have said that this protocol should only be done with a doctor so anyone doing otherwise is taking some risks that may end up making them feel worse and taking more time to correct. It is not an easy protocol and I would never have done it without my doctors; even with, it was still not easy.
3) To avoid confusion in this area, there are products like Depyrrol from Europe and now Core from the US that, under the guidance of a practitioner, may be good choices for some of us. I am on Depyrrol now and when that runs out will move to Core.
4) As Gudrun noted, the information that is provided on klinghardtneurobiology.com and the products through BioPure are to be used with practitioner guidance. They are not intended to be used by the average person that is not working closely with their doctor on these protocols.
5) Everything that I have seen from Dr. K has suggested 250mg of a zinc salt, not elemental zinc. So if there is a confusion here, it is more about how the supplement companies label their products - that is what I found to be very confusing but with research and discussion with a couple of them, I came to understand this better.
6) Simply because a practitioner puts you on zinc does not mean you are on KPU - there are many aspects to KPU beyond zinc - though zinc is a very key part of it.
7) The details here on elemental vs. salt do not have anything to do with where I am in the protocol as I understand. If anything, you'd likely want to be more careful about too much zinc at the start as it will mobilize toxins and metals. So to say that 250mg elemental might good for the first few months and then you would drop back is not resonating with me.
8) If you buy 50mg Zinc Picolinate, that is the ELEMENTAL mg, not the picolinate mg. At least, that's my current understanding and what I was able to confirm with one of the companies of one of the products I was using.
9) The most recent Explore! states "Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months. Approximately 3-4mg/kg body weight. Less zinc may be needed later in treatment for maintenance. Nausea after zinc supplementation may be a sign of hypochlorhydria or low stomach acid. This tends to resolve after 2-4 months on the protocol." This seems clear that the elemental amount required is about 1/6th of the 250mg of zinc salt depending on which salt is being used. I think this seems clear so I am not sure what clarification beyond the above is needed.
10) Agree with zombie that now there is Core, it seems like there are options that will avoid much of this confusion and you will note Core has 27mg of elemental zinc from 160mg of zinc salts.
11) In general, KPU has been great for me - really helped to push along detoxification and improve things with my immune function, WBC count, etc. I just think that doing it with a doctor is critical. Keep in mind that though the general protocol may be up to around 50mg of elemental zinc, some may require more or less.
12) Tools besides energetic testing should be used along the way to monitor progress - hair tests, blood tests, etc. - all why this is NOT a do-it-yourself protocol.
Hope that helps. Be well
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I also thank you for the clarification and hope the practioners who are prescribing children up to 125 mg elemental zinc and adults up to 250 mg elemental zinc take your info seriously or that Dr. K addresses them personally, preferably the latter.
But you left one thing out:
PRACTIONERS ARE NOT ALL AWARE OF THIS INFORMATION. THEY DONT UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE IN THE PROTOCOL.
My practioner did not put me on zinc. I asked how high I could go with a negative test but suspecting I have KPU (without being on KPU protocol) and she said I could take up to 50 mg. THAT along with B6 (which I have been on), but that alone as well, could be considered to be on the KPU protocol if the zinc causes a HM detox and one has KPU even if they do not test positive.
I was on the KPU protocol without knowing it or being PREPARED because my practioner (who is Dr. K trained) does not understand the dosing of zinc for KPU. And because I am most likely positive even though my test was negative.
I was also told to ramp my son up to 125 mg elemental zinc.
I dont know how many times I have to say this for people to ACKNOWLEDGE that there is a PROBLEM.
I also do not understand why Dr. K would not want this clear as a bell, and Scott, it is not. The fact that people here have misunderstood as well as practioners is a sign there is a problem and need for more clarity from the source of the protocol.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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I want this cleared up the way it needs to be cleared up.
How is this not perfectly clear?
I emailed your blog post, Scott, to my practioners representative. It is sitting on the desk of two practioners at the clinic I go to for review. They dont know you from Adam and I hope they take the info seriously and contact Dr. K for clarification, because they are confused.
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SForsgren
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posted
I hope they get the clarify they need as well. The latest writing on this in Explore! is quite clear though I acknowledge that some practitioners are not clear on this issue.
Onward and upward...
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Dr. K should contact all practioners trained in this to make sure they are clear, Scott. It is not my job to try to convince mine and I am very concerned for others.
I am not the only one this is happening to.
The Explore! article does not mention elemental zinc or does it? NO matter.. my practioners do not read these articles. The protocol comes from Dr. K. They dont have time to read blog posts or articles.
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SForsgren
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Yes, the Explore article quote I pasted above and it states:
Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months
Clarity is always a good thing. If these practitioners are Dr. K trained, then I would suggest they contact Dr. K for more details.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Again... how the heck can and will they contact him IF THEY DONT KNOW THEY ARE WRONG? Shame on my practioners if they dont. But what about the ones WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE?
I found the notes from a well known doctor online regarding this protocol by accident.. googled and there it was and he lists 250 mg of ZINC. PERIOD.
DO YOU GET THIS OR NOT? Dr. K needs to put out a STATEMENT.
The only reason I am even begging you is that I think you have personal contact with the man.
Im sick of this. I had another attack tonight and cannot tolerate keeping this up.
DONE.
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SForsgren
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R62, I'm not continuing to debate this with you.
I've shared what I understand and hope that will help some to better understand this issue if they did not previously.
Other discussions on this matter are likely best directed to your own doctors.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Scott, I said I am done, then you say this. I dont want to debate. Never did.
I know you have more respect and influence in the lyme community, that honestly I dont care to have. Its not my goal or intent. I dont want to win a battle. I only want to be heard.
I cannot physically handle this back and forth and need to be done.
I already told you that I am concerned about the doctors who are not aware and their patients.
Can you identify with that or not?
Make sense Dr. K should contact them to make sure they understand his protocol or not?
Really I need to be done. I tried to talk with you not debate you and I dont hear you really listening.
I respect you alot, but this is really too much.
I cant physically handle it.
Best to you and your endeavors. I dont plan to communicate with you again. Thank you for the heads up on the elemental zinc. You have helped my family tremendously and I will be forever grateful for that.
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heiwalove
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posted
scott, what blood tests should be done while on KPU?
posted
Okay see this explore article is what Scott is referencing and I see where he's getting his thoughts from. "Zinc 250mg per day (as Picolinate, Gluconate or Sulfate; liquid is more effective - equals about 1/6th of this as elemental zinc) for 3-4 months "
it says the salts in parentheses because those are the best absorbed forms. And like I said before no knowledgeable doctor would say take 250mg of any of those salts because they all yield completely different amounts of elemental zinc. The 1/6th of this as elemental zinc is referring to the liquid zinc. Liquid minerals are already in electrolyte form and nearly all absorb right into your system.
I'm not saying 50mg of zinc is wrong... I'm just saying if it's right, then whoever wrote that Explore article and Dr. K's KPU protocol must have been extremely drunk.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
I had to get off the computer last night as the confusion and R62 not being heard really overwhelmed me. I totally get where she is coming from. I am grateful Scott brought this info to many peoples attention but not everyone will be seeing it.I am hoping Dr K will address this and send info to people that attended the seminars back to when KPU first cam out. I thought everyone was understanding about the elemental part of this now,but from the pm's I am getting people still are not understanding it. They and there Docs are following the original info given out at the seminars and in written articles and r on to high of doses.Like R62 docs they do not have a clue.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Is it possible to only feel better on depyrrol or core (more specifically depyrrol) and not have a massive die off or detox reaction? I'm wondering if it's possible to just boost detox a little and not actually shift a bunch of metals around. Maybe the massive doses of zinc are what shifted metals so significantly for you guys? Maybe on super low doses, like a capsule of depyrrol, you won't have such a huge healing crisis?
I completely agree with you Scott; I don't think it's necessarily wise to start with super high doses of zinc and then taper off. To me, it makes more sense to actually start with low doses to just start gently pushing things along, then build up to a higher dose so you don't shift the whole load too quickly. Maybe that's just our logic though. Every body is different.
Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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posted
Littlelymie, Ive heard of folks having to split the depyrrol pill the HM movement was so significant. That would be about 15 mg elemental zinc, which is the RDA. Strange that that little zinc could do that.
I dont know if the full dose started something they needed to slow down and the full dose was needed for that to happen or if they needed to start at a lower dose and that lower dose would have caused a milder detox that they could work up from.
From what I understand, the zinc builds up in the system. The body loses in through the heme in the urine and I think sweat and once you have more in than out, the process begins.. not sure if it is that black and white or not.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Little, I felt a little worse first with toxic symptoms. Then I felt better. Then I felt like I caught every bug that went around once my immune system kicked in.
I did not have the severe symptoms many talk about. Just ups and downs.
Now I don't have any symptoms at all from it.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Some of us have HM issues prior to any chelation that might happen with this protocol. We have it in gut and roaming around. I think this is true for me. When you add any little bit of detox on top of that, it could make it look like more HM were released than realy were.
Dr. K does talk about this in the Thriiive videos. He mentions I think taking a month or so to prepare for the detox by using mild binders that act in the gut and matrix like chlorella, microsilica and I think clay. I think he may have said to move on to detoxamin prior to the protocol as well, not sure. This info may be in the links above. The Thriiive videos are down.
Anyway, that could explain some severe reactions. Allergy to the HM and autoimmune response could as well. ??
Maybe some people just have more HM in their body. I cant remember if this protocol acts to push out environmental toxins as well.??
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I was on extremely low doses,and ramped up slowly.My Md was cautious from the beginning. I have done all types of binders,plus coffee enemas,baking soda baths and more. I also know people on Depyrrol that have had a hard time even cutting the pill in half. I had the biggest herpes outbreak 2 weeks ago that lasted till we dropped my dose. Article by Mercola and K say high zink and I think merc can cause this.Many lymies also have herpes.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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"Many Lyme patients suffer from Pyrroluria, a metabolic illness where abnormal porphyrins carry out significant amounts of needed zinc and vitamin B6. Diagnosis is made with the appropriate test at Vitamin Diagnostics in New Jersey. Even though it is assumed that this illness is hereditary, I have my doubts, since most Lyme sufferers have a degree of it. I suspect that the appearance of kryptopyrroles in the urine is induced by the illness.
However, I am careful with excessive substitution of zinc. Zinc has a synergistic effect with mercury in the brain and also promotes the growth of the herpes viruses."
So you may also have been dealing with the effect of the zinc mercury combo...
I dont want to imagine the consequences of practioners who are prescribing up to 125 mg of zinc in elemental form for a child.
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SForsgren
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posted
I think that under the care of a doctor, it may make sense in some cases to do a higher dose. That said, it is very important to monitor it closely and will likely release metals that the doctor needs to be ready for. So, though in some cases, 200mg of elemental zinc might be used, it would be for only a few months and only under close observation.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I can see that ( possibly in some cases) but only not if the practioners are blindly prescribing 125 mg of zinc in elemental form for a child and 250 for an adult while thinking they are following the KPU protocol.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I have a book written in 99 called Depression Free Naturally by Joan Mathews Larson This is before it was connected with chronic illness,lyme etc. The dose there is 25 mg of zink picolinate 3 X a day.I feel there is lots of good info in the book although not all about Pyrroluria but has the best symptom list I have seen and whole list of supps.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I have that book, Healing. You mentioned it on another thread and I purchased it.
She does list as you say up to 75 mg zinc. She also has really high numbers for B6 .. 250 mg or until dream occurs. 50 mg for p5p. She has the manganese at 10 mg X2 a day.
I am concerned about B6 (just to be aware) because according to Dr. AY it produces (somehow) the same toxin that Bb does.. quinolinic acid. Also those of us with the CBS upregulations may not handle B6 well in large doses. My daugher also has a cbs upregulation so we have to be aware of that for her as well.
I see where Dr. K also says that some cannot handle the B6 and some cannot handle the p5p.
Dr. AY also has an interesting perspective on manganese.. I had never heard.. it can accumulate in some tissues with lymies.. it can also be depleted b/c Bb uses it and it feeds it (as Dr. K has said in the past)and it is also neurotoxic (read that elsewhere and also found it listed as a heavy metal). She mentioned getting manganese from black walnut and deal with parasites at the same time. I guess that would work for some people.. not sure there is enough manganese there for folks who need higher amounts. But a good idea.
I read somewhere that zinc can bring out a virus (not sure if it was a herpes virus..) that causes nerve problems. I wonder if that happened in your case.
Too little zinc and copper for parkinsons and too much for parkinsons.
one way to scare oneself out of a protocol.:-)
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
I am doing way smaller dose's of all the other supps she lists in the book and down to 45 Zink. My friend a non lymie was on the protocol by this book and at first she felt really good,the best in her life and then took a nose dive emotionally and physically. She then quit. She never did the test and did it on her own. Hard to know what is happening in my case.I know more than on virus has lifted its head.All I know is the last 2 weeks have been not fun.Time will tell.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
So, if my bottle says this (Twinlab chelated zinc):
... there really isn't any way to be sure if the 50 mg refers to `elemental zinc' without asking the company directly, right?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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SForsgren
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Truthfinder, it is likely ELEMENTAL. It seems that in the US that is the way it is done - though that does not seem to be the international standard.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Scott. I dropped an email to Twinlab and asked. No response yet.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I think the RDA goes by elemental dosage. 15 mg of elemental zinc is 100% RDA, so any supplement listing mg by RDA % would be measuring elemental. So 50 would be... I cant do the math right now.. 333% (?) on the bottle and would be measuring the elemental amount. My Thorne zinc picolinate 30 mg is 200% RDA. 15 is 100% RDA..
The CORE supplement is 27 mg elemental and lists that as 180% of RDA if memory serves me there.
I have seen bottles list the mg of the source of the elemental but will also then list the elemental as RDA %. The source is usually in parenthesis.
(trying to clarify.. list the source as zinc picolinate for esample but list the mg as elemental. if they list the source (salt for zinc) in mg, it is usually in parenthesis and right under or next to the source name of the supplement. The elemental is listed with the RDA %)
I think Scott is right. Most if not all US supps go by RDA, so elemental.
I think this may be different in Europe and could explain the confusion..
posted
Truthfinder,glad you popped in here.Keep us posted what they say.Thanks Scott and R for hanging in here with this and working on getting it figured out.And Scott I need to say again I am very grateful that you put this out to the lyme community.
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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Truthfinder
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posted
It appears that Scott and R62 are correct.
Twinlab said that their labels on minerals will always list the ELEMENTAL amount in milligrams.
Yes, Healing, I'm grateful that this was clarified here for those of us interested!
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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heiwalove
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posted
littlelymie (hi!) -- i was on a low dose of Core for quite a long time - about five weeks - before i experienced noticeable heavy metal dumping. and it was BAD. of course i'm not saying that will be everyone's experience, but it could take awhile for the metals to start moving. i thought i felt better on the Core at first, too. little did i know. :/
SForsgren
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posted
That's the expected course - the metals will come - they will dump. This protocol is not easy - be ready. Doing it without a doctor is an unnecessary risk that may lead to problems.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Shoot I just talked to my doctor and they said my KPU test results were only at 6.7 They are confused as well because my other tests seem to make them think I would have it. Like low alkaline phosphatase, high MCV and MCH, low taurine.
Does anyone know how reliable that test is? I had it done at vitamin diagnostics.
Posts: 499 | From Indiana | Registered: Oct 2007
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GiGi
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posted
Heiwalove, doing KPU without first doing AI is not something I would do. You are starting to mobilize a mountain of metals that have no place to go because most likely, like everyone with Lyme who has done the AI test, has metal and some serious chemical allergies, plus a bunch of others. What will the body do with these toxic substances if the immune system does not recognize them as toxic because your body reacts allergic to them?
My husband is on KPU now and it is a breeze to do. Metals are moving, but with little symptomatic and certainly not a protocol that I would call difficult. All that because we made AI the priority. We are at bottle #10, so major problems have been cleared, i.e. wheat, soy, all foods, toxic heavy metals (mercury, lead, nickle, copper, etc.) all mucor, fungi and mold, a huge number of chemical allergies, all the emotional and inherited traumas, nightmares, inherited miasms,have been cleared. The body is able to regulate again.
You may want to give this some thought. www.allergie-immun.de (click on English). Or read the Allergie Immun Thread here on LN.
I take 2 CORE. My hairtest showed low zinc and mediocre phosphorus. All that is involved in the heme problem. I have no negative reactions to CORE. In fact, I think it makes the metal flow a lot easier. All it needs is the different grabbers to bind. I tensor test for these. Just the fact of having Lyme a number of years makes it pretty clear that KPU was and is a factor. But to me clearing the dysregulations comes before everything else. Doing biophotons for Lyme in Germany (the way it was done) was the worst thing to do because it simply ignores the metal and chemical and environmental toxicities that are at the very base of Lyme. Live and learn. Putting the cart before the horse when the horse has lost its way is wrong. I feel the same way about KPU when I hear of the
I can take DMSA, cilantro, NDF, and the different chlorella forms together, with a Kelatox suppositoriy the same evening, without any great discomfort. Before AI, these together would have blocked my system and wiped me out. Now I hardly know it's there.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
How large are the CORE capsules? What about Depyrrol? I have difficulty swallowing pills.
Posts: 88 | From Toronto | Registered: Nov 2009
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posted
Hi Zombie, I am waiting to get my Core. Soooo not sure the size. I have heard peeps r cutting them in half to get smaller dose. Maybe that will help you.I am feeling better since my Md dropped my zink dose. At least I don't feel like I am dying anymore.Joyce
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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SForsgren
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Not sure how you would cut Core in half as I thought it was a capsule. You might be able to open the capsules and just take the powder.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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GiGi
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posted
Zombie, the 00 size of a mag capsule is 7/8 "long; the Core is 5/8" long and much smaller diameter, probably veg cap size "0". A small capsule. Depyrrol Basic is the small size "0" also. Capsule can be opened and taken halfed in liquid.
At this time, I do not take CORE any longer at this point (took it about three days). The AI at the present time seems to result in enough metal/neurotoxin outflow for me personally and enough I want to deal with. Same for my husband. So please take AI effects into consideration, once you reach that point in that therapy. I definitely got a superb hair test result due to AI, without any CORE or Depyrrol.
A "normal" dose of CORE is 4 caosules. One of the reasons it was done this way, so people can take smaller amounts more easily, if they need to.
Weigh all very carefully, especially without being done with AI.
When it comes to metal detox, as far as body having to deal with the outflow, more is not better. Easy does it. Crashing is not healing.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
GiGi, it sounds more and more like KPU protocol may not be needed once the full course of Allergie-Immun therapy has been completed...
I am on round #7 of AI (not sure how many more I will need, possibly many) and simply researching KPU to see if it might be an option for me down the road.
Posts: 88 | From Toronto | Registered: Nov 2009
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GiGi
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posted
Zombi, that's a good approach. Nothing is gained by hurrying. Our body has and runs by its own clock. It will do what it needs to do when it is good and ready.
Hoping for a Healthy New Year for you, Zombie, and all who so desperately need it.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
KPU is not *only* for detoxing. It's correcting a deficiency of nutrients. You do detox when you correct this deficiency.
I don't know much about how it fits with AI, but they are two different things. Perhaps AI might help the body correct what is causing the deficiency, but that I do not know.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Even if AI helps the body correct the reason or reasons for deficiency caused by dysregualtion even KPU. There could be nutritional holes that need filling I would think? Possibly not as much because the holes are not "leaking" or "leaking" as much. ??
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I see AI and KPU as two different things. KPU is supplying minerals and other nutrients that the body is deficient in - and has been for years. I agree that if one has started AI and dealt with metals using AI, the KPU treatment may be less difficult when the metals start to be released. However, I'm not yet clear that AI would eliminate the need for KPU and replacement of missing nutrients. I have been doing AI for almost a year and have been doing KPU for about 9 months. I wish I had done a bit more AI first in hopes that it may have made KPU easier than it was, but I do not think AI would eliminate the need for it.
Just my opinion.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I don't know, it's just a theory I have at this point.
Lightparfait may provide us with an answer soon.
She tested very + for KPU but is holding off on doing the protocol until she completes AI, at which point she will retest for KPU.
Thanks for the New Year wishes, GiGi! A Happy, Healthy New Year to all!!!
Posts: 88 | From Toronto | Registered: Nov 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
To remedy the leaky gut situation and thereby correct absorption problems caused by a huge range of dysfunctions may take 1-2 years. Holes in the gut! Enzyme production. Myelin damage. Dentrite growth. Detoxing. Detoxing always leaves a mark in how one feels. Some may have quick results. Some will take time. With either therapy. Sticking to the rules of AI is important. Since AI can speak plain German with me, I have been told more than once "do not add more to the pile we are in the process trying to remove".
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
I wish I did not have to be on the KPU nutrients while on the Allergie-Immun drops!
However, one effect of Lyme or its treatment is that I now get seizures. I can tell when one is likely to occur by how my body feels.
By utilizing the supplements in an article I found here at Lymenet on treating seizures without pharmaceuticals, I'm able to keep the seizures from happening.
What are the supplements? Zinc, B-6 (200-600 mg a day!), Taurine, magnesium, copper, niacin, B complex. Sound familiar???
When I was in communication with AI about these, Herr G. wanted me to quit them. However, when I told him I needed them to prevent seizures, he emailed me back to continue if I felt they were vital, which I do.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Dear Cass, so glad to see the supps r helping u. Blessings to u getting better and better. KPU is big part of the healing for many of us.I have no worries about doing KPU and AI together.Happy 1010 to you Joyce
Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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