I've thought it over...here's what I think we should do.

This would answer the questions regarding "legit" vs "alternative".

I say we add another Discussion area called;

"Alternative Care"

This way when someone chimes in...we know it may be an "off-the-wall" unproven modality...and no one can complain.

If you are a registered user...or, a ghost on this message board...please; sign on now and add YOUR yes vote to my simple...yet well thought out solution.

And, I would also add that by replying to this message you are voting FOR this initiative.

In other words....no reply on your part means that you vote no.

A simple....GREAT!! or, Right ON!!! Is all I ask.

Your Always;
Middle Of the Road, I'll Listen to Both Sides...

Trout

------------------
Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within.
Let the claws be bared,
and Lyme BEWARE!!!
Iowa Lyme Disease Assoc. www.ildf.info

[This message has been edited by troutscout (edited 11 February 2004).]

Also, as it is, I find it hard to track down some information that I know I've seen, but I get a million returns on when I do a search in Medical.

I've been hesitant about this because I've gotten so much good info about non-allopathic treatment from Medical and I don't want to see this info "quarantined".

But if there's a particularly important thread an "alert, see info in Alternative" can be posted to remind people to look there. And vice versa. And General seems to have become the "Alternatives" alternative posting place, anyway,.

And the names could be Medical-Pharmaceutical and Medical-Alternative (to avoid the "legitimate" issue)

It might be beneficial for those seeking "modern" care to have a place to refer to and for those who are looking into "alternative" care to have a place for reference also.

frenchbraid

Or if someone was asking about sleep remedies - there is a lot of overlap here between conventional and alternative...many treatments and supplements that folks are using that used to be thought of as alternative are pretty mainstream these days.

Personally, there are already so many posts that I doubt I would be able to follow both forums as much as I'd like to...

in fact...I don't often check General - but followed your post from Medical here, Trout!

Not enough time in the day...

I missed the early discussion about this issue, so I don't know if I missed something, but thought I'd jump in!

The reason would be things like heavy metal toxicity which I have, it not a conventinal treatment. My insurance compay won't pay for it or the canadian medical system. so chelation which is alternative is what I need and it would be nice to know if others have info etc.

Also environmental medicine which isn't mainstream and at times more in dept than medical.

I have seen more than a few people say they have metal toxicity, this is a real issue that needs to be addressed.

Also, lots of people incorporate natural treatment into treating lyme. Seem like everybody is taking some kind of herb as part of their battle with this. Lots of questions, and even Dr. B recommends it. New people would like to know, like who taking what and what works, which goes on in medical all the time.

Again, a great idea, I would really enjoy that, because it was my only avenue for health until I found an LLMD.

quote:

---

Originally posted by charlie:
...OK but expect the biggest catfight yet over what is 'legit' or 'mainstream' or whatever vs what is 'alternative'.

---

But!!!!!!!

It would be in "Alternative"....the Moderators...could 'move' the subject over.

Think about it....probably not as big a problem as you think.

The Medical Forum has become SO overwhelmed lately that I think a step like this IS needed irregardless...in the long-run what might happen is the people who consider themselves "alternative" would hang-out in their "click" on that Forum and the "Mainstreamers" would hang out in the Medical Forum.

Seems like a solution to me.

Yours Truly,

Many alternative treatments are quite legit and work well and many have had great sucess using them. I choose to go with a more mainstream approach becaue my HMO is willing to pay for it among other issues.

There are times when I have a particular question about some natural remedie or herb that comes up and it would be nice to have a more focused forum to have those questions answered instead of having them 1) get lost among the mass of other questions in medical 2) full of naysayers

If there is a good sound natural alternative for somone, like the lady who just posted about insominia she could easily be told to refer to "alternatives" or still given an alternative suggestion. Remember we are self goverened and this would only serve to help streamline things and remove some of the clutter.

Good thinking Troutscout

Like if I say- if you are having a really really bad day, stand on your head and sing

"hocus pocus help me focus".

It works!

Not alternative would be- if you are having a really really bad day, stop taking your medicine, run naked down the street, beat up your in laws and cover yourself in hot towels.

See?

Sure Medical and Alternative or Complementary are not fixed terms but nonetheless a space is needed. For some of us the medical paradigm doesn't work or we want to go down a different route.

The medical forum in any case is overloaded.

Maybe we should call it "everything but abx" LOL!

Maybe I'm making things harder than they need to be, but I'm thrilled to death that my brain is working!!!!

Let's make Trout our Emperor for a day and have him discuss this with the moderators to get their take.....

Whaddya think?
cootiegirl

I worry that there will be lots who ignore this site and post on medical anyway, on threads that have already been started.

Sifting all this out would be a big job for the moderators, I think.

Ann - OH

I should say, though, that one thing that's "clogging up" Medical is posts that just don't belong there, they aren't medical in nature.

I think that's at least in part because some people don't want to bother with reading General; or don't think their post will get read if it's in General because some folks don't go there. But my answer to that is, if it isn't Medical it belongs in General, whether ya like it that way or not. It's just an abuse of the system to declare that you don't have time/whatever to visit General, and then post non-Medical to Medical.

</rant>

What's Lou B have to say about this?

a toxicity problem in the body that slows or negates the effectiveness of an antibiotic? or

Should I go on Samento and stop my antibiotics? or

I stopped most of my antibiotics, except for doxy, but I keep my symptoms under control with ........ (a complementary th erapy)?

What do I do - my jaw and my teeth ache? Why?

Everything that, for instance, I have said on this board for a few years, would be put where?

I am afraid, healing of chronic Lyme and any chronic disease crosses over into many other therapies that are not necessarily mainstream to most people. The world is steadily learning about therapies that have been done in many parts of the world for many years and they are slowly being recognized as an adjunct to healing of chronic disease. Our body is not a box with separate compartments - most forms of treatment affect the total body.

Let's not create more specialties - mainstream medicine has enough specialties with one doctor never knowing what happens to the patient because he/she/it sees a doctor for this, a doctor for that ----

I do not think we can separate healing of Lyme into boxes. We all know it doesn't work. Every good doctor knows that by now.
Just take a look at Dr. B's website.

Take care.

P.S. I dislike the expression "alternative" to begin with. Nothing, not one single thing I did to get well would I consider an alternative. At least it was complementary; most I consider a primary treatment toward cure.

Help trout Iam stuck on that fence you were on and as you said barbed wire

I think we need it all together.

My son and I are on intensive "mainstream therapy", but have gained invaluable help with alternative supports, not to mention my mile long favorites list where I save any alternative ideas that I may want to do later...

I think valuable help and info would be lost in the shuffle. By having to look into two separate forums.

We'll always have naysayers..but that doesn't change the fact that the key to recovery requires an individualized plan taking (often times) from both "sides"..I think the most effective recoveries meld the two..like..there shouldn't be "sides".

You can be the most granola type in the worls, and still sometimes require a mainstream therapy..and on the other hand, clinical therapies require alternative compliments and supports.

That's what a combined board on the enormity of these illnesses grts across, if you look at it with an open mind and a place to learn.

I think splitting it would also form cliques.

Besides..who would get GiGi? or Marnie? or Bob Tx?

Mo

Another forum? No. We would have the same problem. If someone does not agree, they will come on over and bash it.

If someone came on this board and bashed people on long term therapy, what would the reaction be? It is not "proven" that longterm abx therapy is effective, so would that person be considered a "troll"??? They would only be conveying what they have read in the respected journals AND what most MD's say...

I will go back to one word, Respect. If you have not tried it, please respect the other poster and don't bash it. Question it but don't be disrespectful about it.

After years of abx therapy and trying everything in the "Western World of Medicine", like many of us finding relief with alternative therapies, some of you bashers may end up trying "alternative therapies" too!

I used to be a huge skeptic and NEVER thought I would EVER go down this road...here I am!

I will say it again. It is all about RESPECT.

I think splitting it would also form cliques.

Besides..who would get GiGi? or Marnie? or Bob Tx?

Mo

I think the cliques are inevitable. Too bad

Nothing will stop people visiting or posting on both forums. Why is that a problem? It's just a question of giving people more space because there is more of us and there will be even more in the future.

Or do people imagine Lyme disease will decrease!!!

Healing thoughts,

What would there be to learn?
We might as well stay at home and gaze into the mirror.

Sometimes, the most precious treasures are buried and hidden away
And not easily seen at the first glance.

We can all be a bit rough around the edges at times
It is only human nature.

But, our faults are also what make each of us
More endearing
More lovable
More personable.

Who can love a perfect person?

Please
Let us remember that each voice in this choir
Is unique
And each voice is valuable...

Melanie

Before my debilitating neurological illness, I was as granola as you can get. We're talkin' CRUNCHY!!

I handled almost all medical issues through herbs, acupuncture, and intense cleansing. For all my adult life..

I had wonderful results. Then Lyme hit. An acupuncturist, polarity espert, cranio-sacral Chinese herbologist..I think really one of the best in the counntry..whom I had worked with for years..looked me in the eye and said he thought I needed to go ahead with IV, and we could support therapy and detox as needed, more later...

My son and I both lost our minds to this disease..

And, if I was like that with myself, I was a thousand times more adement against toxic western meds for my kids.

I wouldn't even vaccinate them without finding a non-mercury sources.

Now I'm pumping myself and my son with long term IV meds and aggressive orals.

I really don't think we had a choice in our particular situation, but I still have enourmous respect and faith in the alternative.

I've been sort of forced to accept and learn that for some, it REQUIRES both. And..that many practitioners, both medical and alternative, don't "get" the concept yet. Or don't know how to meld the two..

I feel strongly that this forum has the wealth of info and potential to allow patients to study and utalize many therapies, and navigate recovery effectively.

An ND coupled with an LLMD would be the ideal..but not all of us can find that...

Dr. C supports what I have been doing with alternative medicine...where do I draw the line or make the division?

One about the abx treatment and other prescription drugs protocol.

And the other for the non-prescription, herbal, alternative protocols.

I just stopped my abx yesterday and would love to read about alternatives. But wading through the medical forum is a nightmare.

There is nothing wrong, IMO, with Eastern medicine, or alternative approaches beyond prescriptions.

I think we all need to be able to relay what we have learned/tried, in appropriate forums, and let the rest of us decide if it's for us or not.

We are all in charge of our recovery, whether mainstream or off the beaten path.

So we need to be flexible if someone talks about heat therapy, in medical for example, that we don't jump down anyones throat. Or maybe heat therapy is medical? See what I mean.

Again we are self-governing in this matter and no one will be "restricted" from posting something helpful from any fourum. But if I were to be seeking an alternative rather than an alleopathic means to treat a sx I would post in Alternative where people knowlageable in those areas would be more apt to find and answer my question knowing what kind of answer I am looking for. The reverse is true also.

This would not stop someone from answering a question about "why do I have digestive problems while on abx" in Medical with something like try acidolophis or yogurt even though these remidies might fall into the "alternative" heading for some.

Newbies need their basic questions answered, without all the confusion.

And yes, RESPECT would be the name of the game on ANY board!

Lyme disease, as outlined by Dr. Burascano, Dr. Jones, Dr Stricker and the likes is a systemic disease that needs a systemic approach. This approach should include a holistic approach to treating.

Holistic approaches are considered "Alternative".

If we start to break things in half (alt treatment in one, medical in the other...etc), and try to dilineate treatments are we no better than the ducks out there? They all play an integral part in our healing.

There is no absolute with lyme. It is a huge picture, with many intricate parts.

I for one, prefer to not have to jump from post to post, in different sections. I dont have time to hit "all the sections" on a regular basis.

Cave, when I first saw this I thought it sounded like it would simplify things, but then I got thinking about how often people will not even go to the "support" tab. So often they will post EVERYTHING in the medical. So they are not using the categories as it is. By adding one, I think it will just complicate and allow more reason to crab at someone. (why did so and so post here, they should have posted there...)

If we are going to split things, I would vote for splitting it to "adult content" with a password, and then also have a kids group, so the youngsters on here can deal with their specific issues (loss of friends, loss of activity, school/free time manangement etc...).

But thats my opinion...