posted
This particular thread had 196 posts and just disappeared! Where did it go?
Some of us are following it to get updated information on the subject. Please clarify.
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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sixgoofykids
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posted
I am wondering, too!! It was a very useful thread!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Truthfinder
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posted
Oh, no!!
I was just looking at it 10 minutes ago and now it has disappeared!!!
This definitely requires some explanation from the moderators. This makes no sense at all.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tracy9
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posted
What?
This is not right....tons of people were following this incredibly information rich thread; where is it???
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
thank you for telling everyone that YOU removed this yourself and why.
i was going to look on other pages for it since many people do NOT GO TO PAGES 2 OR 3....
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shazdancer
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posted
I am unsure of what you are saying, Gigi. Are you saying that too many patients were calling the doctors who practice this treatment with questions? Or are you saying that those who doubt the treatment were calling?
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I was really looking forward to how this was working...... I have been following and very interested. I hope you will at least tell us of your results?
-------------------- "You'll be surprised to know how far you can go from the point you thought it was the end" Posts: 946 | From Massachusetts | Registered: Apr 2008
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Thanks GiGi for doing all you can! I'm sorry there are individuals who used your information in such a negative light. I have good news about moving forward with the Maryland group I'm trying to establish, I will contact you directly.
At this point it is perfectly understandable that all information should go through you first. It can be filtered better that way. I will be trying to form a site that will be password protected specific to the group I'm forming and will have restricted membership. I will report status here at lymenet.
As great as lymenet is, it is still open to the public.
I'm wondering how much LNE had to do with it?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Brussels
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posted
Gigi, I guess in the US, any doctor involved in such a research would be thinking to get loads of money from it. An impossible thing in most parts of Europe.
My homeopath that is a medical doctor, teaching at famous university in Brussels, president of the homeopath society there charges 30-35 curo per hour. He is in the end of his career, gives lectures all over, and is naturally fully booked.
Try to explain that to an American, he won't understand. My homeopath would be seen as a loser (because he's not charging enough for his experience and status).
I've never seen a rich doctor here in Germany or in Belgium. If a medical doctor wants to make money, he has to move out. That's what many do.
Anyway, I'm sorry that you had to pull the thread off. It was great info.
Selma
Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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aklnwlf
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posted
I was keeping track of this one too. Rats!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6918 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Thank you, Gigi, for updating us. It was a very useful thread.
Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Don't forlorn toooo much, what was built can be rebuilt. There just has to be rules and membership needs to be filtered. This can only be done if a private site with passwords. I'll start doing the leg work on this.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
Why not just repost the information without the doctor's name and address or phone. Just what he has done, lenght and cost of treatments, how it works, the name of the machine, and if anyone in the US is doing it. That way, the story will be out, but the doctor won't get harassed.
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posted
GiGi, any way we can get the key links for the Bionic 880? Thanks, Ernie
Posts: 546 | From Cascadia subduction zone | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Gigi, I just read your post on why it was removed. I completely understand and agree.
However, that thread has a lot of other information, more than just info on the Bionic 880. This other information is key for us trying to bone up on this wonderful tool you have brought to us.
Is there anyway to post a cleansed thread, for a short period of time, so we can copy off what we need?
I think everyone is very, very thankful for you sharing as much as you have Gigi. You are fantastic!!
Thanks, Ernie
Posts: 546 | From Cascadia subduction zone | Registered: Mar 2002
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Some links for Bionic 880 & other info about the process -
"Endogenous opiates generated by biophotones-therapy"
Biological answer to spreading borreliosis and addictions report by Herbert Ziesse in "Die Naturheilkunde" issue 3/2006
�People should be ashamed of themselves, using the wonders of science and technology thoughlessly and without understanding it better than a cow understands the botany of the plants it chews happily`` (Albert Einstein) Of the 3,000 illnesses known today two thirds cannot be treated effectively by medics. The new optical technologies, together with microsystemtechnologies and microbiology open up big potentialities for better prevention, diagnosis and healing. Research, especially the works of the German Physicist Prof. Dr. rer. Nat Fritz Albert Popp, bit also of Dr. rer. Nat. Ulrich Warnke of Saarland University, have shown that DNA is a kind of �electromagnetical antenna``, that receives information to pass it onto our cells. Max Planck was the father of quantum physics, which is the basis of the realisation that light can be conceived as both wave and particle. Coherence is optimal, which means that all photones in space and time are behaving alike, like soldiers marching in a parade. All matter is constructed fom photone/quantum effects - our bodies, too. If the energy-units correspond to visible light, they are called photones, if they do not fall into this narrow spectrum they are called quanta.
Now it gets exiting: We have to look into the field of quantum electrodynamics (QED). QED is the most exact and most successfull scientific theory ever found. Not a single validation experiment failed. Shouldn't this call every medical authority in charge? After all, Feynman, Schwinger and Tomonaga won the nobel prize in 1965.
Light is life Without light life would not be possible, and everybody knows about the positive effect of sunlight for our well-being. But just how important light really is for the human being, we just begin to understand, now that biophysics has proven that light is present in every cell of our body. The itensity of this light diminishes when the cell is damaged. But of you apply light in form of coherent biophotones to the damaged and weakened cells, they are stimulated to regenerate. For absolute penetration depth of close infrared our tests show that with pale skin and low circulation tissue possible power densities will get you measureable photones even below 5 cm of tissue. Measurement of transmission allow to calculate, that a laser light source of 904 nm wave lenght and 10 W/cm� impulse intensity will send 3.4 x 10� photones/cm� to a depth of 4 cm. (Dr. U. Warnke: �The human being and the third power``).
The Bionic 880 uses this healing power of light for biological cell stimulation and for harmonising hormon production (the Bionic-880- therapy was tested with the regulationdiagnotic of Prof. Dr. F. A. Popp)
Endogenous Opiates It is common knowlegde that endogenous opiates (endorphins, enkephalins) generate euphoria. But opiates also increase the efficiency of the immune system and keep us healthy if we are happy. If the opiate level rises, t-lymphocytes multiply faster. Then their attack f.ex. against cancer cells is intensified and the macrophages become more active in fighting intruders and clearing up cell parts. We are interested in how to raise our opiate level and under which circumstances they are too low. They are lowered by coffee, even decaf. Fat digestion diminishes endorphine release due to the release of the colon hormone cholecytokinin. Biophotone therapy can raise the endorphine production quickly (only four or five treatments of 25 minutes each) to a considerable level, and patients report that their level of pain fell faster than ever before. Patients with chronic pain are characterised by a substancially lowered endorphine level in the cerebral liquid. Treating addicts, we will find the same symptom. Cortisol - as well as adrenaline and noadrenaline - has an important role in stressful situations. Shock or stress increases the cortisol production. Stimulation by photone-treatment lowers the cortisol-level. The patients feels a pleasant continuing relaxation. Serotonin is a dopamine class agent. It is a natural amphetamine, which lowers the appetite and therefore is a natural suppressant. The stimulation of serotinin combined with a low-fat diet is a natural way for loosing weight. For support, I prefer to prescribe Elian, Infikausal and L�we Komplex No. 13 (Infirmarius-Rovit).
Erwin Schr�dinger (Nobel prize laureat , physicist):``Our contemporary way of thinking might need a little blood transfusion of eastern ideas.`` After a short instruction, the treatment is easy to delegate. Usually, the photone-emitter - after programming - is applicated to both wrists, both ears and finally to the medulla oblongata at C4/C5 level. Since the amount of photones in a place is an indicator for the probability of hits (similar to a shotgun), the direct effect reaches its limit in deeper regions. But this doesn't rule out that the energy is conducted dissipatively (dynamically) and single states of excitation are distributed throughout the body by way of pumped, that is energetically engrafted moments. Due to this kind of energy-distribution blood- and lymphatic streams are favourite ways. Russian findings suggest that there are also wave guides for the visible spectrum within tissue, which can transport light over astonishing distances. Similar wave guides, only for short distances, were also found in the ear. The universal microtubules are predestinated for wave-guides. Future research has to clearify the matter.
Borreliosis treatment without antibiotics More than 100 patients with borreliosis were treated successfully with the bio-photone-therapy. The treatment profile is described as follows: Bionic 880: Borreliosis-ampuls D5, D6, D8, D10, D12, D15, D30, D60, D100, D200. Settings on the Bionic 880: Power 100%, frequency F3, time: 395 sec. Treatments: Fix the 10 borrelioses-nosodes below the sternum. These 8 points are treated: both inner wrists, both ears, the frontal part of the brain (�3. eye``), 7. chakra/limbic system, thymus, solar plexus. Each point is treated for 395 seconds. Cycle of treatment: twice a week for three weeks, then examination. Is the test result positive, another treatment follows. After that, a month of waiting. A total of 108 patients were treated and put under observation for a year. 90% of the treatments were successful. Reconvalescence of patients who were treated constantly with antibiotics took several weeks longer.
It goes without saying, that all patients underwent cleansings. Albert Einstein:``It is hard to say what is true, but sometimes it is easy to recognize something wrong``
Conclusion At the beginnig of the century of the photone optical technologies spread into nearly all areas of industry and society. This boost of innovation is accelerated by the connection with the life sciences, which have caused a huge wave of technological break-throughs. Photonics and biology - light and life - a combination with bright prospects.
Further readings: Prof. Dr. rer. Nat Fritz A. Popp: Biologie des Lichts. Grundlagen der ultraschwachen Zellstrahlung Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke: Diesseits und Jenseits der Raum - Zeit - Netze Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke: Der Mensch und die dritte Kraft
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Sparkle that was absolutely excellent information, it shows exactly how research is closing in on the method of communication from cell to cell. Light as it turns out is how we efficiently use the energy in our bodies. I suspect a healthy body helps protects from all the burdens put on our body from the environment we live in. Marnie has given us a wealth of information on the use of photobiomodulation and detoxification. It finally bridges the gap for why we have chronic symptoms.
You can also see the posibility for getting rid of lyme and company and still have symptoms.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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posted
Dr. Bernie Siegel, M.D. wrote some books about the topic of mind/body medicine. The main ingredient of being cured is whether you believe in the therapy. The placebo effect is very powerful.
This is why, sometimes, it doesn't matter what someone uses to get well. The main factor is the belief. This is why I prefer non-invasive treatments.
Some people need to believe in the surgery or intensive drug therapies to make a change to get well.
I'm not against drugs & they can be very useful but sometimes you need to try different modalities to be cured.
---
I really think it's possible to get well using the techniques of Dr. Woitzel with equipment you can purchase here.
Elixa.com sells custom LED panels & other equipment that is similar to the Bionic 880.
You can also purchase the nosodes over the internet for very reasonable prices from Europe. They may even sell them in the US if you search Google.
If you are willing to do the research & experiment on yourself - it doesn't seem that hard to do this technique, yourself, for a reasonable price.
It's nice to consult with a doctor but sometimes it just isn't practical, affordable, or convenient.
GiGi- I respect that you want to do it in the prescribed way... that's great that you have the interest & means to do it.
I have self-treated myself on many occasions with very good results. I feel confident I can handle this on my own for myself.
I wouldn't treat someone else since I'm not a practicioner but I don't mind doing some research & experimenting.
I'm not telling others to do what I do but the info is available. I'm very excited about all of this.
I'm going to go slow & proceed with caution. There is definitely more data available about FIR & healing than using a Rife-type device.
Thanks for the info!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Truthfinder
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posted
It's truly a shame that the original thread was pulled. A simple edit to the original post - plus a similar request towards the end of the thread asking readers NOT to attempt to telephone Dr. W. seeking information - would have sufficed. Most of those truly interested in this protocol are reasonable people and would have understood the problem and honored the request.
Or perhaps a simple statement that the thread would be deleted after 24 hours - then those of us interested could have copied the entire thread or at least selected parts. I'm dismayed that so much information and thoughtful comments have been lost. Most Lymies have time and energy limitations, some much worse than others. The deleted thread contained enough information to get a good start on gathering more information.
In light of the fact that Dr. W's website and phone number were plastered all over another, separate thread makes this action particularly hard to understand.
Fortunately, I had not yet sent out e-mails containing a link to the old thread. I had thought of a few people who might be interested in this, one of which was a practitioner near me and another is a classical homeopath in Germany whose daughter suffered from Lyme. I'm certainly glad that I didn't waste their time linking to a thread that no longer exists.
Sparkle, thanks very much for providing some of the missing links and information. I appreciate that.
Fortunately, you don't have to believe in homeopathy or Hahnemann for it to work. Just ask my dog. Or my cat. Or my ex-boyfriend who initially made a lot of wise cracks about homeopathics. He is now at work, fully functional, while 90% of the people he spent 2 days with last week are sick in bed with vomiting, diarrhea and nasty flu symptoms. He only had to suffer with those symptoms for the few hours it took me to find a remedy for him.
It appears that we have only begun to scratch the surface of understanding medicine that involves energy, frequencies, and light. If there is a failing in the use of these medicines, it is with mankind's lack of understanding, not the power of the medicines themselves. In this regard, the future looks very bright as our knowledge grows - assuming that we are `allowed' to pursue our own individual choices in health care and treatments, of course.
I'm very distressed that customs is holding up your machine, GiGi. If it turns out that you are prohibited from receiving your purchase, then obviously, any discussions about obtaining this machine or using this Lyme protocol should immediately be conducted via `back channels' only, IMHO. I hope the reasons are obvious.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Truthfinder - I made paper copies of almost all six pages of this thread. If Gigi permits it, then I can somehow "re-post" what I have.
I don't know how to do this on the computer so you'll have to instruct me.
I will delete Dr. W's name,phone number and address from my other topic posted and ask the same of the other posters to do it on theirs.
Just want to help and am saddened this has caused such problems! Posts: 9020 | From Illinois | Registered: May 2006
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oxygenbabe
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posted
This country is ridiculous. To hold up an LED device in customs. Gigi, hope you have a good trip and post when you get back.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Hope this helps.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Gigi, while waiting for a cure for your hubby, just to let you know my doc uses IV glutathione on his Parkinson's patients. It really helps. His uncle who has Parkinson's has no more tremors or obvious symptoms. I'm not sure all that the glutathione does, I think it protects the neurons from oxidative stress, renders them more sensitive to dopamine, etc. You can do some research but it can preserve his neurons while you're waiting to get rid of the borrelia. Curcumin also is supposedly helpful.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Sparkle, thank you for the cost estimate. I appreciate it.
I hope there is a way the technology can be made available to more people.
Nutmeg
Posts: 386 | From WA state | Registered: May 2005
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sparkle7
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posted
GiGi- what do you mean by this?
"I just am afraid of what will follow - "it's a scheme - it doesn't work - I am still hurting ....'' just another one of the expressions Sparkle is using...""
I have NEVER said anything like this...
I have always been open-minded & supportive of your posts.
I'm just looking for ways people who don't have access to large amounts of money to use this technology. I'm trying to make the findings available to others so they can try things for themselves.
I'm not a traditionalist... If these modalities help people there's no reason why people shouldn't start trying things for themselves if they are so inclined.
If these things work, they will work if you implement them by other methods. This isn't brain surgery...
I'm just trying to understand how this stuff works & how to apply it for a less expensive cost.
I can do the research on my own & not post anything else if it offends you. I never blamed you that I didn't get well or that what you are posting is rubbish.
If anything - I'm trying to be supportive.
I just don't thing people should be like sheep & accept everything they are told. I learn by asking questions.
From now I I will discontinue posting my findings... everyone can research it on their own & do what they want.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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oxygenbabe
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posted
Sparkle, don't take a post or two personally. Do what is best for you and others.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I only read one or two of the posts in the original thread. This is a topic I know next to nothing about.
Was researching heart palpitations for hubby and ran across a reference to a clinic in Pennsylvania that uses a different photon or L.E.D device with chronic fatigue patients. Includes a very brief description of this type of therapy.
posted
Are there any engineer types on the board who can tell us how the technology behind the Bionic 880 differs from the instruments on these websites?
Patti
Posts: 975 | From California | Registered: Apr 2007
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Truthfinder
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Thanks for the offer, Hoping, but don't worry about it. I had my little 'whine' and perhaps it is best to just let it go. You have enough to think about at the moment.
Sparkle, I hope you understand what GiGi is saying. It's too easy for people to decide that something doesn't work when, in fact, they didn't do the treament properly.
It seems to me that the first order of business is to find out if Dr. W's protocol works for someone here in our country EXACTLY as he uses it. And if so, only then can somebody try to figure out how to make it cheaper without sacrificing efficacy.
So, don't quit thinking and researching! Your ideas may yet come into play. It sounds like you understand this stuff a bit better than most, so there's no harm in looking towards the future.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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lymie_in_md
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Patti -- those links are using laser technology for the infrared. the 880 is using LED technology. LEDs are shown based on Marnie's posts to be more effective in the manner we expect to be used. Laser can create thermal heat that can destroy tissue, LEDs won't. Laser therapy should be done with the aid of a physician, LED technology can be done without a practioner.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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GiGi
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posted
As I promised, here is the gist of my conversation this morning with a patient who was treated by Dr. Woitzel with the Photon Therapy (Bionic 880).
I called our family friend who still lives in my home town in Germany. A retired professional. She lives about half an hour away from Dr. Woitzel.
She started the conversation with exactly these words: ``I am sooooo happy!'' She is symptom-free.
``I was there five times, and with the third time I already noticed that my pains were getting less, and now I go once every four weeks; next week, that is my last time, because he will be testing me if really all borrelia is gone.''
``What impressed me especially is that I received no chemicals of any kind, only the photon therapy. following it got some infusions to help the detoxification to take place.''
I asked her: Did you react strongly to the first treatment?
``No, absolutely not.''
You didn't notice anything?
``Nothing. The first time I thought--- well I was tired - The third time that's when I noticed that I got nauseous in the night and I got diarrhea. But that was one time, and then I knew that my body was pushing all of this out.''
How sick were you? How long did you - did you know that you got bit by a tick?
``Yes, I was bit in June 2006 and got this red circle - then I went to an emergency doctor on the weekend. Then I got antibiotica for 20 days. Then I told my PCP that I had the feeling this is not all okay yet. And he said: there is nothing we can do and just wait it out. I waited, but went then to a naturopath, because I was always tired and felt run-down. He determined that there still was something there. But he said that he was not as experienced in this matter, but that we at least start strengthening my immune system. That is what we did, and then in November 2007 the pain really started to take over in the joints, and always as soon as I was lying down. They got so severe by January this year that I went back to the naturopath telling him I couldn't tolerate it any longer. I didn't want to go to my PCP, because he wouldn't do anything anyway.
Then the naturopath told me he didn't know what to do at this point, but he gave me this address that he found on the internet. He said''you can go there. I do not know the man.'' And then I thought `help, no matter what'. I called there and the practice helper told me ``yes, many come to us who have this. Stop by.''
She said: " All that impressed me, but what impressed me most was that Dr. Woitzel then contacted my naturopath to get some more of my history. He at once asked for the naturopath's name and address and telephoned him. That really impressed me very much, because I had never experienced anything like that.
He told me the last two times when I was there that it looks okay. He tests me everytime. I don't know if I will have to go another time, but I have an appointment.
Further general discussion between her and me:
She also said that Dr Woitzel told her that this disease is increasing horribly, not only by ticks, but also flies and mosquitos. He told her that it is a very dangerous situation.
She said he also told her to be careful. That one is not immune to the next bite. She told me that she another tick got her this year already, no reddening, but that she would tell him when she sees him next week. `` It was a very little one and I noticed it right away. But he told me to be careful.''
I asked her: Did you do anything in the inbetween days? Two days apart and then again? No, nothing was done during those days. ``I was surprised myself that this went so quickly.''
``It takes about an hour for the treatment. That isn't bad at all. They touch the ten different points on the body, 320 seconds, and when that time is up, drink a glass of water. And then to the next point (on the body) ---that's all'' she said.
I told her how happy I was to be able to talk to her and she wished us the same success and that we might get together because my brother still lives in the same town. I told her that I was hopeful that my husband could be helped also.
Then she added: ``I must tell you this: Dr. Woitzel does not give up. I have an acquaintance who had Borrelia, but she has a number of other problems (pain related) and he is treating that particular symptom. He does not give up. My hat is off to him.''
She also said ''we need a lot more doctors like him.''
Amen --- says me.
Hope that gives you an idea of how it works.
[ 05. June 2008, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sparkle7
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posted
Thanks for clarifying GiGI... Sometimes when things are written as opposed to spoken in person, there are things that go missing - like intonation, body language, etc.
I understand that some people give a great deal of thought to devise ways to heal others. I appreciate this. It's just that I can't afford to pay anyone right now for services.
So, I have to try this stuff on my own. I'm very good at researching stuff - so, I don't mind. I know it's trial & error but it will be on myself. I'm not going to treat anyone else.
I'm pretty persistent with things & I don't give up easily. I can usually tell if something is working or not. I may not be an expert in ART but I'm very intuitive. It's my own body - so, I think I'll be able to manage.
In any case- the use of LEDs for healing is very well documented. Just using the LEDs in a simple device seems like it will be theraputic for a number of different ailments.
---
What I have researched so far is that the Bionic 880 has custom pulse frequencies along with the basic LEDs.
They are listed on the info. I don't know how they arrived at the pulse rates they use.
There is a French doctor named Dr. Nogier who came up with a series of pulse frequencies that resonate with different systems of the body. These are NOT the ones used by Bionic 880.
The Nogier frequencies are used in other products. Some laser & LEDs have other frequencies. I don't really know how companies come up with these frequencies & how they can determine how effective they are.
The importance of pulse frequencies is that it makes the infrared treatment more effective. Often, these frequencies are controlled by a computer which is built in to "tell" the part of the device with the LEDs the frequency to pulse the lights.
I'm sure many of these LED or laser products are good. It's just that the Bionic 880 was used in the manner with the nosodes to heal Lyme in a particular way.
I'm not sure if the same results can be recreated with other products.
makes custom LED systems. I haven't contacted them but you could probably have them make the same system with the same amount of LEDs & pulse frequencies as the Bionic 880 for alot less money.
The device I'm interested in is called the LightWorks by a company called SOTA -
It's something I can use at home & has some similarities with the Bionic 880. It's only $295 & it would be a good way to become familiar with the technology.
Lasers are good but they are for more professional practicioners. LED instruments may be better because the infrared light is more diffused & better for treating large areas of the body without damaging the body due to overuse.
More later...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Brussels
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posted
This is great, Gigi. Thanks for posting the whole story.
So I see the schedule is not something standardized, I mean, the treatment for borrelia lasting 2 weeks every 2 days.
So the treatment can take a bit longer, but with larger intervals in between. That would be great for me as dr. W. is about 2.5 hours from home. I can just drive.
I guess dr. W. does then energetic tests then and determines what to do for each person? So the interval in between treatments would be also determined like that?
I think will try going DIRECTLY to the man then. I couldn't still contact the doctor in Berlin. I just left my phone number in his practice, but he didn't call back.
The only problem is that we get constantly bitten here. Ticks don't have borrelia anymore (because of the borrelia preventive treatment we do), but they can have MANY other nasty things inside.
Horse flies, fleas, bees, waspes, small red spiders, even ants, we get bitten by all these insects quite often too.
Please share your story when you come back. I'm sure we're all not rid of borrelia, they're still hiding, but some people live well like you do. But I wonder what from these borrelia potencies test in people like you (in remission).
And for me, now borrelia is getting into hiding places, I'm symptomless again, andro is not testing anymore since yesterday, I'm back to preventive protocol, so fast, like all the other short borrelia relapses I had before.
Borrelia slides don't test either. I still herx a bit after the combo astragalus - stephania - cats claw, but it has nothing to do like last week. I wonder for what potencies I will test for the Bionic. My story is very similar to the lady you talked to, just that I got infected a year before her.
My daughter had also lyme in the past, just accute phase (for 5 months). I also wonder if these borrelia nosodes higher potencies would test too!!
Hey Dr. W., here we are! I'm calling the man! Posts: 6200 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Sparkle your point is very understandable, maybe the best way to look at is, just another tool in the shed. What I mean is why not buy an LED that is close with low expectations until you can get treated with real thing, if you need to. Put time on your side and more things are possible. I've had the same question from another person who can't afford 10k but can afford 350. If you do this, just keep the expectation low, like you are just trying to manage the inflamation from the disease, not expecting remission.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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I don't see any reason to lower expectations... (I'm not saying this in a nasty way... ;-)
I think we can do it! It's not brain surgery...
You put the nosodes on your sternum & shine the light on various points on the body for 395 seconds.
It's not that complicated. I found websites in Europe that sell the nosodes - they are inexpensive.
I don't even know if the Bionic 880 will be allowed into the country judging from GiGi's experience.
---
Re: DPL� (Deep Penetrating Light) Therapy System
It looks good but I don't know if it has any pulse frequencies. I think the frequencies make the IR more effective.
I have to look into it more throughly later...
The SOTA LightWorks has the Nogier frequencies.
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sparkle7
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posted
Pulsed LEDs -
Pulsing these LEDs at different frequencies can increase the effectiveness of the LED treatments.
Dr. Paul Nogier, the father of ear acupuncture, discovered that each tissue type in the body resonates at different frequencies depending on the embryologic origin of tissue.
Someone would lie down on his or her back and he would check their radial artery pulse. Using a frequency generator, he dialed in different frequencies and aimed them at different parts of the body and also on different acupuncture points.
If the frequencies were beneficial, the peak wave amplitude of the pulse would shift in a certain direction.
If the frequencies were not beneficial, the shift would be in the opposite direction. He found that tissue derived from ectodermal tissues had a positive response to 292 Hz.
Tissue derived from endodermal tissues responded best to 584 Hz and tissue derived from mesodermal tissues responded best to 1168 Hz.
These frequencies are all harmonics of each other and happen to be harmonics of the D note.
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sparkle7
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cyc./sec. (cycles per second) is the same as Hertz (Hz)
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Nogier frequencies -
In McGee's book, he discusses a hand-held light therapy device that consisted of light emitting diodes (LEDs) pulsed at Nogier's frequencies. According to Dr. McGee, such a device appears to have far stronger healing effects than non-pulsed lasers set on low power outputs or non-pulsed LEDs regardless of their wavelengths (color).1.
1. (Frequency F, 73 Hz) For use when cellular activity is hypoactive, such as chronic recurring problems, nonunion fractures and chronic splints and for stimulation of osteoid. It is also helpful in activating humoral and endocrine functions. Field work has shown setting 1 helpful in stimulating (tonifying) acupuncture and trigger points and increasing circulation in areas being treated, such as wounds when past the acute stage.
2. (Frequency G, 147 Hz) For areas of yellow scar tissue that are generally formed internally on tendons, ligaments and sub-acute (lingering but not chronic) conditions. Field use has shown setting 2 to be helpful in reducing inflammation associated with injuries and infections. This is often called the universal frequency because most problems involve inflammation.
3. (Frequency A, 294 Hz.) For tissue of ectodermal origin, such as body openings, skin and nerve. Field applications include wounds, eye injuries and after surgery. Setting 3 tends to tone tissue while minimizing the chance of hemorrhaging fresh wounds or recent surgical sites. It is also good for the treatment of acupuncture and trigger points, corneal ulcers and ulcerated mucous membranes. This is called the universal frequency in acupuncture.
4. (Frequency B, 587 Hz.) This frequency appears to be most effective for neuropathy, but also for circulatory and lymphatic stimulation and treatment of tissue of endodermal origin, such as GI tract, liver and pancreas. In field applications, setting 4 has been used in conjunction with 5 and 2 for tendon, ligament, joint and other injuries where reaching secondary levels of tissue is needed.
5. (Frequency C, 1174 Hz.) For tissue of mesodermal origin, such as bone, joints, ligament, viscera and tendon. Field experience has shown setting 5 to be especially good for tendon and ligament injuries when used with 4 and 2. It also helps in relaxing large muscle groups.
6. (Frequency D, 2349 Hz.) For chronic conditions not responsive to setting 3 or 5. Field experience shows setting 6 to be a good supplement to 3 when healing processes appear to reach a plateau.
7. (Frequency E, 4698 Hz.) For pain control, primarily when C nerve fibers are transmitting to dorsal root ganglia and when involvement of neurotransmitters is of physiological importance. Field experience shows 7 to help suppress pain and to sedate acupuncture and trigger points and aid in diminishing excess calcification associated with chips, spurs and arthritic conditions.
-----
I don't know how the company that makes Bionic 880 came up with the frequency rate that they did...
Other companies use the Nogier frequencies since they have been studied to be effective.
It would be interesting if someone called them & asked them this.
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sparkle7
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lymie_in_md
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posted
Sparkle, I took no offense! And you know why I posted it the way I did. Some people may bet the ranch on something untried and get too disappointed and never try again.
One thing I thought we could try. Is take the specification to a vendor who has a machine that is close and have them tweak it to the specifications.
What do you think, worth a try?
If its worth a try Sparkle, you've spent so much time investigating the technology, I suspect your the expert. Do you have time to make a few calls?
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Really good point GiGi, I suspect 30 years of researching what works or doesn't isn't going to be done by guessing. It seems some are determined to try, the closer to the specification the closer to the bionic 880. If the specifications are close and still doesn't help, well we've learned something.
For myself, I would perfer to have the one being used by those who have had certain success. Personally I don't like to guess. And I certainly can't replace all the research these great scientists have employed. None of us can.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Regarding pulsing LEDs, (understand that I know nothing and am just researching online) I found this website run by an electrical engineer, and he doesn't think that pulsing really makes much difference. I know that some of you wouldn't agree w/this, so I'd like to hear how you view what he has to say.
posted
Just a heads-up, I spoke with Ron at Lumen Photo-Therapy. They make 2 light units, a smaller one for about 850.00(90 LED's) and another one for about 1500.00(264 LED's). The unit used different frequencies than the Bionic 880. However, I spoke with the owner and he said I might be able to special order a unit with frequencies the same as the Bionic 880. I have sent the owner the frequencies, and he will be sending me a quote.
Obviously, it might be a way to save some serious money. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Ernie
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sparkle7
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psano2 - the articles you posted doesn't take into account the research of Dr. Nogier regarding pulsed frequencies (see what I posted prior).
They discovered that if they used a pulsed laser light, the tissue healed rapidly.
On the other hand, if they gave a continuous beam, it sedated the cell and killed the pain.
When a single frequency pulsed light hit the cell, it actually stimulated the cell to start producing more protein than it normally does, and as a result, the cell would heal.
Even when they took the light away, the cell continued its healing.
The continuous beam had a reverse effect. It actually caused the cell membrane to relax; it killed pain, reduced inflammation and made muscle tissue relax.
----
It seems that different wavelengths & pulsed vs. non-pulsed are all significant in regards to healing.
I'm sure with more study, this will be narrowed down into various combinations for treating various ailments.
----
All of this is good but I'd like to start using infrared as part of my treatment sooner rather than later. I don't think it's necessary to wait until someone can get a Bionic 880.
Even if someone does get this device - I still have to find a way to commute where this device may be. By the time this happens, gasoline may be $10 a gallon.
There are other good products on the market that I can afford & use at home...
There are alot of benefits of using infrared therapy other than the specific method of Dr. Woitzel to cure Lyme.
I totally respect this doctor's discovery & research but it may take a while before anyone can implement this in the US.
After 10+ years of being ill - I'm just not that patient...
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sparkle7
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efsd - re: The powerful Lumen 90� is made of flexible neoprene and may be easily applied anywhere on the body. It measures 4" X 8" and features 40 visible and 50 infrared LEDs, allowing our most concentrated treatment option yet! $849
Compare this with the LightWorks by SOTA... They are very similar but the LightWorks is $295.... It is programed with the Nogier frequencies.
-----
The LightWorks is designed to generate an intense LED Light output using Constant-Current.
The Hand Paddle has high intensity LEDs on both sides.
One side has 60 x Red LEDs at a wavelength of 660nm.
The other side of the Hand Paddle has 55 x high intensity Near-Infrared (NIR) LEDs at a wavelength of 880nm.
There are also 5 x Red LEDs at 660nm wavelength on the NIR side of the paddle to indicate the NIR LEDs are working as NIR light is invisible to the human eye.
There are 8 different selectable Modes (A through G and Constant).
The LightWorks unit will output a steady (non-pulsed) beam of LED light when in Constant Mode.
Additionally, the LightWorks unit can pulse the LEDs at specific healing frequencies (Modes A through G).
-----
I don't sell any of these products nor am I affiliated with any company. I have done research for a profession & I like to find the best product for the money.
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sparkle7
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And there's more...
Kendric C. Smith at the Department of Radiation Oncology, Stanford University School of Medicine, concludes in an important article entitled The Photobiological Effect of Low Level Laser Radiation Therapy (Laser Therapy, Vol. 3, No. 1, Jan - Mar 1991) that
"1) Lasers are just convenient machines that produce radiation.
2) It is the radiation that produces the photobiological and/or photophysical effects and therapeutic gains, not the machines.
3) Radiation must be absorbed to produce a chemical or physical change, which results in a biological response.
"The equation between the machine and the biological response is a common error often made by those who wish to promote the commercial interests of low-energy laser technology.
Light radiation must be absorbed to produce a biological response.
All biological systems have a unique absorption spectrum which determines what wavelengths of radiation will be absorbed to produce a given therapeutic effect.
The visible red and infrared portions of the spectrum have been shown to have highly absorbent and unique therapeutic effects in living tissues.
The following are definitions of commonly used terms used in connection with the use of therapeutic light devices:
1) Visible Light: light that is within the visible spectrum, 400nm(violet) to 700nm(red)
2) Infrared Light: light in the invisible spectrum below red, from 700nm to 2,000nm
3) Frequency: number of cycles per second measured in Hertz
4) Coherency: wavelengths of light traveling in phase with one another
5) Monochromaticity: light that is of one color, or one wavelength
6) Collimation: light focused in a beam, maintaining a constant diameter regardless of its distance from the object or surface at which it is directed
7) Nanometer (nm): a unit of measure of wavelength of light (one billionth of a meter)
8) Nanosecond: one billionth of a second
9) Joule (J): unit used to measure the energy delivered
10) Watts (w) and milliwatts (mw, 1/ 1000th of a watt): units used to measure the power capability
11) Peak power output: the maximum output of power, measured in milliwatts and watts
12) Average power: amount of power actually delivered in a given period of time
13) Duty cycle: the amount of time the light is actually on during a given period of time
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oxygenbabe
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Ernie, thanks for doing that--and please let us know if he thinks he can make it. In fact maybe Gigi will help us there when she gets her machine. Maybe he can take a look at hers at some point to figure out how to engineer one here. Maybe we can have someone start making it here so we don't have to worry about this high price and the customs/FDA issues.
Sparkle & Others, I have a chee energy device. It uses pulsed frequencies. It was around $350 and I remember wondering why it was so expensive when its such a small handheld with just about 8 LED's (blue, white, red and infrared). Let me tell you it is fantastic, and strong. I don't even use it that much because when I tried holding it on certain acupuncture meridian points or on points where I know I have lyme (such as a point on my upper spine) sequestered, I had a very strong reaction, and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, so maybe I shouldn't mess around. I really love the device though and I can tell you the pulsing Nogier frequencies are very important and I've had other LED's with many more lights that are not nearly as strong.
OTOH, that does not mean it does what the Bionic 880 does.
ALso I remember talking to Soto and they said they were going to try to make a device with the Nogier frequencies so I guess they have. I don't know how it compares to chee energy.
My sense of bionic 880 is that the device itself may not be as significant as the overall program with the nosodes and the practitioner. I think you are activating the body in some way that I don't understand, that homeopathy alone apparently doesn't do as fast.
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lymie_in_md
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We have to be careful not over simplify the LED technology. There are possibly millions of spectral frequencies. If we try something with a currently availble commercial product like the bionic 880 or a manufactured one to spec. It still may not be quite the same. When you use the super diodes now made to create the LED dispersion of light. It is the light that has the healing qualities. We just need to understand what works best as best we can. We may still want the bionic 880 when it becomes available and we know more.
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